 Hello, welcome to Out of the Comfort Zone on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm your host, Arby Kelly, and we have an awesome show lined up for you. Now we've got a really cool guest that I think you're going to love, but first, our book of the week. Now, this is a book that actually has kind of saved my marriage in more ways than one. This is called Negotiating the Non-Negotiable by Daniel Shapiro, and he's actually the founder and director of the Harvard International Negotiation Program, which I think is super, super cool. Like, I'm fangirling over here. So Henry Clay, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Daniel Shapiro are all masters of negotiation. Now the problem is, have you ever had a situation where you and someone else are fighting and it's the same fight you've had over and over and over and over and over and over, and you're just rehashing the same discussions, but nothing ever changes and you feel bitter and resentment and tempers just fly off the handle and nothing ever seems to change? That is when you need this book. There are actual, it's almost too cool to go into because there's so much content, but there are actual tools you can use to start calming down those fights, coming together without giving up your position, without causing more strife in the future. So if you've had the same fight over and over again with your spouse, with your boss, with a co-worker, with a friend, trying negotiating the non-negotiable with Daniel Shapiro, I think you'll really love it. Now for the body language tip of the week, it's Christmas. It's been Christmas every year for the past long time, but our kids are growing up. And that means eventually you have to tell them that Santa's not, eventually you have to tell them the truth about Santa. And when that happens, that can be a really tough moment. So we have found there's a body language cue that helps to soften any bad news. It's called the head tilt. Just like that, just tilting your head actually makes you seem more sympathetic and helps to soften the blow. Now this was studied with people who were being fired from their jobs, and that's a horrible thing to go through for anyone, but they found when someone was fired with a head tilt, they saw the company and the person who fired them as more sympathetic, and they had softer, more soothing feelings towards the company after they were fired. That's how powerful this head tilt is. So when it comes time to tell the truth about Santa, say it with a head tilt, and it'll make the news a little bit easier. All right, now let's get on to our guest. This woman, if you haven't heard of her, I'm sure you will shortly, Pam Chambers is one of Honolulu's top 10 most admired women. She's a prolific author, public speaker, consultant, coach, and she was my mentor. So Pam, thank you for coming here. I'm so happy that you finally made it onto my show. Thank you. Glad I asked. Me too. Why am I going on your show? So Pam, for the people, the few people who haven't heard of you, what is it that you really do? I help people with every aspect of how they come across in the world, whether it be they're speaking, they're dining, they're working the room, they're email, they're even, I'm starting to even talk about texting etiquette. So it's about how we show up, our body language, our voice, our words, our image. Interesting. So today we wanted to really focus on public speaking because that's something seems like a lot of people dread. So how did you get started in public speaking? I remember in the third grade, eager to give my book report about Charlotte's web. All girls love that book and know of it. So I was eager because I was an avid reader. I loved the story and I was eager to get up in front and do my book report. And as I began to read my book report, I flubbed a word. And one of the leaders in the class laughed at me. And the rest of the people joined in in her laughter. I'm the one who didn't join in. I should have. And I decided then and there. I remember I decided this is not a safe place. This in front of the room space is not safe. So I avoided public speaking of any kind for more than two decades. Whoa. And I was good at avoiding it. Lots of people are great at avoiding it. But sooner or later, I think almost all professional people are called on to speak in front of a group, speak in a board meeting, introduce someone on stage somewhere. And I decided I wanted to conquer my fear. So I did. Wow. So you decided to conquer the fear. And you did. What did that journey look like? Well it looked like asking my bosses for more speaking opportunities. I spoke one minute once a month only. And that was not enough to get good at. You can't get good at anything in that short amount of time. So I said, do you think I could speak more often? Oh. So scared to ask for that. But they said, well, that would be good. So I had small groups of 10 or 12 people, maybe 15. I knew what I was talking about, the seminar, and I loved the seminar. And I did that once a week, and that did it. Yeah. And then someone asked me, do you think that you could teach our staff how to be as comfortable as you are? And I said, I don't know. I don't know if I can teach this. But I found out that I could. So that was 31 years ago. So you've had 31 years of teaching people to speak and helping them feel comfortable on stage. Yes. Wow. So I love that first you realize this was a problem, and then you set out a plan to fix it. And I can totally sympathize with you at that moment saying, can I have more time to speak? You must have had to just screw up all your courage to ask that. I couldn't believe that those words were coming out of my mouth. I mean, there was a part of my mind that was saying, shut up. Don't ask for that. Wow. So what do you think other people hate to public speak? I ask every group I'm in front of, why do you think public speaking is such a common fear? And someone always says the right answer. We're afraid of being judged. And I said, right. And you're hoping I'll tell you that you're not being judged, but the truth is you are being judged. You are being judged. We must judge each other. We must assess, is this a safe person for me to be with? Should I be crossing the street right now? Can I sit down with this person? Should I trust this speaker? Or are they secretly a serial killer? Exactly. We must assess. So we assess, and some call it evaluating, some call it judging, but we are assessing. And when we're done doing that, then we decide to listen or not. So be judgeable. Yeah. You have to be confident. And this sounds horrible to say. Some of you are thinking, this is bad advice. I hate public speaking. Why would I feel confident about doing it? But it seems like that's one of the eventual outcomes is that you begin to feel confident on stage even though you know all the eyes are on you. Sometimes you have to fake it till you make it. And I don't love that fake it advice. But sometimes we are required to act as though we want to be doing this. And that's one of those times. So what are some of the steps you took or that you see your clients taking when you start building more confidence for public speaking? I mean, how do they build more confidence? There are a couple of main things. One, we have to believe that what we have to say is worth saying, that our message will help someone, that what we have to say is deliverable and worthy. We have to believe that. If you don't believe it, you're not ready. You're not even saying it. That makes sense. You wouldn't want to risk this fear if you weren't ready and had something valuable and powerful to say. And having it valuable, be valuable eliminates the fear because what I have to say is going to help someone. I don't mind clammy hands or some butterflies in my stomach because it's worth it. And then the other tip I share is to love your audience ahead of time instead of fearing them as you get ready to be there, love them. Appreciate that they're coming. Appreciate that they are taking their energy and time to be with you. And if you like them, love them, respect them ahead of time, you'll find that there was reason to do that. If you fear them ahead of time, you'll find that there's reason to fear them too. You'll see, oh, they just looked at each other. What did that mean? Oh, those two are giggling. What are they laughing about? And oh, she just raised her eyebrow. I've been there up on stage when you see something happening in the background and you're like, they're laughing at me. They're ignoring me. I'm being disrespected. I'm being humiliated. I just want to get off this stage. And that's such a horrible feeling. Well, it's wrong thinking. We have to catch ourselves thinking that way and say, I'm probably making up a story right now. And I have been a master of making up those stories. So I can say that firsthand. Yeah, they're probably not thinking what you think they're thinking. We get paranoid. I mean, all eyes are on us. Did they notice that I have a stain on my jacket? And we get more critical of ourselves than they will ever be. And Pam, I'm pretty sure you have a series of classes where people can come and just practice in a safe environment with you. Can you tell me more about how those classes started? Well, they started in 1985. They started. And that came from a group of people who had a desire to learn how to be an emcee of all things. It was an emcee training. And that led to dozens of thousands of people coming through these classes. And it's a six-week course, once a week, in the evening, downtown. I take only 10 people at a time. So everyone does get, as you said, the practice and the feedback. So they come from all walks of life. I could have a 16-year-old boy and a financial adviser and a lawyer and an entertainer all in the same class. And they all have that desire to be more confident in common. So backtracking from everything we've said so far, it sounds like there are three steps you have to take at first to begin feeling confident on the stage. And the first is to actually want to change. You have to want to feel more confident. You have to long for it and be ready to take steps for it. And then two, you have to find your message, something you're willing to face the fear in order to say. And then the third step was loving your audience ahead of time. That was it. Loving your audience ahead of time. So you're not afraid of them. You love them. You have something that's going to help them. And that gives you the courage to stand up there and speak. Another tip would be to get there in plenty of time to meet anyone who, just looking at them, causes you to feel intimidated. So you don't want to be standing up there and then seeing that intimidating person and kind of freaking out right there. So I recommend get there early and meet as many of the people as you're going to be talking to ahead of time, whether they're intimidating or not. Meet them so that when you stand up, they're not strangers. Remember, we were taught, don't speak to strangers. Remember? Yes. I remember that. Strangers are dangerous. So yet, we grew up, we go into a profession and we're expected to speak to strangers when we were taught not to. So have them not be strangers. So instead of seeing someone in the back of the room glaring down at you like this, if you've already met that person and just kind of taken the edge off of their frightening presence, then when you see them in the audience, it's not nearly as scary. And I'm because we had a friendly interaction. That look means something different to me now. That's clever. That really makes a lot of sense. So let's see. We are all of us struggling on this journey to become better people, become better professionals and become better than we are today. I mean, that's one of ThinkTech's founding principles here in front of me. We have something that says lifelong learning, every day better. So when it comes to public speaking, what are some of the benefits that people see when they start conquering the sphere of the stage? So many. For one thing, look at the efficiency of speaking to 50 people at a time instead of having 51 on one meetings. Say you're trying to get a message across for your cause and you refuse to speak in front of groups. Well, that's not efficient. So there's that. You become more valuable to your organization if you're someone who they can send out to the rotary clubs on the island to speak. So you're more valuable. You're probably going to advance more quickly. And just the satisfaction of overcoming such a barrier, just go to bed at night and say I did that well. I did better today than I did yesterday. And speaking is a chance to do that. I love that. So you not only become more valuable to your company, you also just become more confident. You're able to talk to anyone anywhere about anything. Right. Only people I'm not afraid to talk to are people who look dangerous. But I can talk to any group, I mean, I can talk to any group now. Not in the past, but now. So that's a powerful thing to be able to say. I can talk to people who don't even want to be there. I believe I can win them over. Let's be honest. There are a lot of people who are forced to come to events who just don't want to be there. And then there are ones sitting in the back like, oh, I don't want to be here. This is so boring. And previously, those would have been the people who totally made you dissolve into nerves. Oh, yes. But now I know how to say, I can tell that some of you don't want to be here. And I remember being sent to places I didn't want to be. So I get it. And maybe this will change as we get going. And then they can stop trying to prove to me that they don't want to be there because I named that tune. I love that. I call it, if you can't hide it, paint it red. So everyone else can tell if there's this one person who really doesn't want to be there. And if you just kind of ignore them, that becomes kind of a point of contention in the room. But if you just point it out and say, no, you don't want to be here. You're stuck here. May as well have a good time. I would never say that to one person. I used to do that. Well, I can tell you don't want to be here. But I learned from years of living in Hawaii that is not, we don't do that. So it's easier. Actually, it's easier if several people don't want to be there. It's easier if several people are rummaging as opposed to one person rummaging. That makes sense. So they don't feel called out. Right. You can address, I see, I haven't given you enough time to get settled. Let me give you a moment as opposed to, could you quit rummaging, which is, it's offensive. Yeah, it's like, you over there in the corner, shape up. So I would rather have a few unhappy people than only one. Because you can kind of treat them as a group and handle them as a group. Or how about people who are dozing? How about the room is too hot, they just had a heavy lunch or you inherited a bored audience. I'd rather have 20 tuned out people than only one because I can say, oh, you know what, let's all stand up and stretch and you can deal with the whole package. That makes sense. Now Pam, I love this discussion we're having. We are going to be right back. Just stay tuned. We'll take a short break and then we'll be back with Out of the Comfort Zone. I'm your host, Arby Kelly, with our guest, Pam Chambers. See you. We have this crazy thing going on today. I was just walking by and all these DJs and producers are set up all around the city. I just walked by and I said, what's happening guys? They told me they were making music. So we'll do it. Welcome back. This is Out of the Comfort Zone. I'm your host, Arby Kelly, here with Pam Chambers, speaker, coach and all around awesome person. Now, we've been talking about public speaking and one of the things that people seem to fear the most about public speaking is when things go wrong. And so Pam, what are some of the things that you've seen go wrong as a public speaker? Oh, let's count the things that can go wrong. Okay, people can start a side conversation and that can distract you and people around them. That can go wrong. You can have your mind go blank. You can forget what you were saying or why you were saying it because you got distracted by something. You could have a know it all in the room who wants to show how much they know and you politely allow them to take over. That can go wrong. I've seen that happen a lot. You could have someone ask a completely irrelevant question like, where'd you get that sweater? Something completely, you might just burst out laughing at that. You could be heckled and you could have someone verbally challenge what you're saying. It's happened to me. So those are all things that can go wrong. And in my classes, I teach what to do if those things happen. So if you have a toolbox with a tool for each one of those, where's the fear? If you have a tool for everything that could go wrong, there is no fear. I love that. Can you tell us about a situation when something went wrong while you or one of your clients were on stage and what they did to fix it? Yes. I can tell you many things. But I'll start with one. This was a woman speaking, well-known public relations woman. She was speaking and I was in the audience and a man stood up and was acting like he had a question, but he really wanted to show how much he knew. It was not a question. It was him showing off. And she said, you seem to know very much about this. Come on up and join me up here. And I thought, no, that's not what you want. So he went up there. He stood on the riser with her and she handed him the microphone. And then she got off the riser. And so she elevated him, lowered herself, and he, of course, with this permission went on and on. And someone in the audience said, I'm going to use a fake name, Angela, actually I do have a question for you. And she took that as her opportunity to get back on the riser. He graciously, thank goodness, handed her the mic and then he kind of disappeared. But the mistake she made was offering something she didn't want to have happen. So say someone opens a bag of pork rinds. Oh, you know that sound. Oh, pork rinds. Do you have enough to share? Sure. And now the bag goes around the room. And that's the opposite of what you wanted. So we're too eager to accommodate the wrong things. That makes sense. I'm actually thinking about the time that happened to me. Now, as a body language speaker, I only once or twice met someone in my audience who is an expert on body language. And one of them, when I was just starting out, started talking about how, oh, he used to be a body language trainer for cells 30 years ago and such an expert. And I was like, OK. And he just went on and on and on. And I remember having to finally gather my guts and be like, I am the speaker today. I am going to take control. And I had to say, thank you, everyone. Let's give them a hand to please it down. And I remember just finding the guts to deal with that. I can imagine it would have been so much easier for me by taking your class and knowing what to do as soon as he started talking. Right. And in a nutshell, what we should do when we identify, aha, this is a know-it-all, we should be a detective and look for where we can interrupt that person with praise. So John, you are so right. Did everyone hear what John just said? He just said, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you talked to everybody. Thank you, John. So no one who's interrupted with praise will feel that they were interrupted. Clever. So you say, OK, here's my know-it-all. What can I, what shink in this wall can I step into so I can get the ball back? That's such good advice. Because I was taught not to interrupt, all right? So they're going on and on and on. And you're like listening politely. And they're still talking. But if you could just interrupt a button with praise, that is such a good strategy. Barbie, you're so right. You can say that. And that honors the person. It makes the audience relieved. The audience gets worried when they see a speaker allow that to happen. So they don't want you letting that happen. So what are some other things that could go wrong? Oh, well, OK. So your mind goes blank. You're in the middle of a story or anything. And I have literally said, why am I telling you this? And always, there's someone in the room who is the nurturer type. And she'll say, she's usually a she. She'll say, well, you were, and she'll prompt me to know why I was telling that story. And I say, oh, that's it. Thank you. So I don't think it's a bad thing that I lost track. I think it's a human thing. But to say it, why am I telling you this instead of pretending that you know what you're doing when clearly you don't? I love that. And I've seen that so many times, or someone, or I've lost my train of thought. And then you try to look profound. Yeah, try to find it. Yeah. But having someone just say, oh, why am I telling you this? And then they give you the point back. Or if they don't, if no one can help you, you say, well, I guess it wasn't that important. And nine times out of 10, a few minutes later, it will come back to you. And you'll say, oh, I just remembered why I was. So people like that. It's genuine. It's real. It's honest. It's human. It's OK. I love that. And how about people getting emotional when they speak? I've seen many people speak about something they care so much about, that they literally, they get teary. And some of them think it's right to pretend that they're not teary when they are. So when they do that, they send a message to the audience. Let's all pretend that this isn't happening. Instead of I see that I've become emotional, I think a lot of us are emotional about this. So you kind of validate the feeling. Because if you invalidate the feeling, then why are they listening to you in the first place? Well, they all have to pretend that this isn't happening. And that's uncomfortable for people. I love this, Pam. All right, Pam has been my mentor for several months. And so I've had the chance to see her speak and talk to her. But every time I get to talk with you, Pam, I always get to learn more and get more advice. So I love it. Thank you. I love it. Thank you for your enthusiasm. Well, we've only got a couple minutes left on the show. So Pam, is there anything else you'd like to say to people who are struggling with this? Some people will never not be nervous ahead of time. Barbara Streisand and Joan Rivers are two famous people who never were not nervous ahead of time. So that may be the case for some of your listeners. But that doesn't mean you can't get better. You just say, OK, this is part of the package for me. Oh, hi, nervousness. I knew you were going to show up. Hi, let's get going. Have a seat. Sit in the back row. I love that. And I'd like to have your listeners know that I have this book that is available to them. It's called Life is a Presentation. And it's a digital book, an e-book. And they can get it by going to my website. All right. Well, can you tell us a little bit about what's in the book? Oh, sure. It's a book made of many articles that I used to write for the Chamber of Commerce. So I wrote a monthly column for them. And someone said, could you put those into a book? I said, sure, why not? So that was the genesis of this book. And it's been revised over the years several times. But it's very easy to read. Lots of empty space, nice, big font. You can read it in an hour. Good. And that's for free on your website? Yes. Wonderful. What a good resource. Now, if you haven't read Pam's work before, you should because she's just as engaging as a writer as she is as a speaker. So I am certain if you go and read this book, you will find something special in here that's helpful for you. Now, at the very end of our show, I always love to ask. Pam, what's next for you? What's coming up for you? Where are you going with this? Oh, well, I just wrote another book, which you kindly talked about in one of your shows. It's called Not This Again. And it's a book for Hawaii leaders about challenges that leaders in Hawaii face. And my intention with the book is to have it be almost a textbook that will go along with workshops that I'll put on that will be customized based on which of those 18 challenges were the most meaningful for whatever client I have. So this coming year will be the year of that book. Wow. Not this again. And I read that book. It's for Hawaii's leaders. If you're in business, if you're struggling with any aspect of your business, there's something in this book for you. And you can also find that one at poundchambers.com. Now, we are closing up. It's just about the end of the show. And I know you, our viewers, are getting ready for Christmas. You're getting ready for family time. You're planning for the new year. And as you're planning and thinking about what you want 2018 to look like, what you want next Christmas to look like, I want you to know that if you start mastering your public speaking skills, if you start mastering your people skills, then 2018 will be full of better friendships, more client relationships, happier marriages, happier families. And this time next year, you won't even recognize your life because so much could have changed for the better. But that only happens when you get out of your comfort zone. Because if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're never gonna get better at speaking. You're never gonna get better at all the things you could be better at. Your marriage is gonna stay the same. Your family's gonna stay the same. When you and I both know, it could be so much better. So I challenge you, as you're sitting with your family this Christmas, as you're planning for New Year's, think about what you can do to get out of your comfort zone and make your life better. All right, we are out of time. Thank you, Pam, so much for coming. It is so always a pleasure to have you here. And always a pleasure to meet with you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. All right, everyone, this is Out of the Comfort Zone on Think Tech, Hawaii. You can find us on Thursdays at 11 a.m. We'll be here next week. Till then, have a wonderful day, have a wonderful week, have a wonderful Christmas, and I'll see you next week. Thank you.