 Good afternoon everyone welcome to this special session on climate technology I'm very glad we have such a great audience with the business leaders and leaders in academia in government and This is a little surprising right after lunch I hope our discussion can keep everyone awake and climate technology is you know all technology that have to do with Addressing climate changes and in climate change. We have three areas a regulation We have a market and we have a technology for regulation part 2015 the world reached the Paris agreement and it is in the process of the implementation and it also has been going quite slow in many ways and We're hoping that process will goes go smoothly on Market as we know China last year the just announced the the the country wide nationwide carbon market the I do not I will discuss about this problem a little bit later and You know so far we have not really seen the significant Progress in many carbon markets worldwide and whether or not that is optimistic The we were not quite sure yet But a lot of people nowadays just really looking at the technology Because the technology is so far has brought in probably the biggest progress in addressing climate change We have seen clean energy development in many areas the the cost for clean energy has been consistently Lower the then that making the solar power wind power For example to be competitive against the many other to traditional conventional ways based on coal fired a power plant anyway, and with us today the Leaders all of them all four of them the business leaders and every one of them They are leading their company and in Innovation and meeting the challenges that we face today the I would like to first Invite Katie Then just give us quickly, you know what you think the greatest Challenges and the greatest opportunities that technology can bring us for addressing this climate change issues Thank you. So just for quick context For about five years up until earlier this year. I led a clean energy and climate team at Apple Did a lot of work here in China investing in utility scale Solar and wind and working with our manufacturing partners to transition to renewable energy I now live and work in Nairobi, Kenya and invest in off-grid energy applications and Climate technologies there very different. I so I hope I can sort of help speak to very different markets today But your question of greatest opportunities and greatest challenges I Think the greatest opportunities today are to scale up proven technologies that are commercial Carefully viable as fast as possible what you described of how Renewable energy technologies and storage have come down the cost curve electrified transport has come down the cost curve the Affordable sensors and the computing power to actually use IOT technologies for efficiency in energy and other natural resources Listen to this Katie if I may interrupt a little bit. You're working for Apple for five years in the last five years Now if you want you ask you to put your to put your money on so what kind of technology you would put ah Where would I where would I invest capital in different technologies interesting? Well first is The just clear business viability of a lot of existing renewable energy technologies in many You know context-specific, but you have grid parity in in many markets for solar and wind. I I think electrifying transport is hugely important, and it's what should be invested in I Guess are you are you saying as an investor if I put my invest in hat on? I think that the answer to that question gets to some of the challenges that I think is holding us back because at the end of the day, I don't think it is Technology limitations that are holding us back. I think it's some of the structural pieces around Climate technologies not having the right long-term policies in place not having the right Structured finance because a lot of climate technologies are high upfront capex low marginal capex whether that's solar and wind electric vehicles energy efficiency work and so You know we we need some of the right Pieces in place in order for climate technologies to scale up as fast as they need to because as an investor to be honest It's hard to get attractive returns out of climate technologies without policies that Level the playing field Economically for those. Okay. Let's I will get back to you on that Yeah, they see you know what kind of policy would need to make to incentivize the investors to put put their money On the climate technologies, let me just move to a Dimitri as a member of the Mannington Ward Royal DSM. I know your responsibility Has a lot to do with the innovation but also you have been meeting many programs within the company and I do understand that your company is now ranking very high on the adults The sustainability index just tell us with the Katie didn't mention any technology That your companies are doing it. Just let us know what kind of technology within that company That you think the most viable and the for the climate change challenges And then what you will put your money into that then I'll put my money in there, right? I will try to do my best. There we go I would like to to mention three categories which are important and I come with a specific example where you can put your money on We believe the addressing climate change cannot be done in splendid isolation You need to do that with suppliers You need to do that yourself and you need to do that with consumers customers down the value chain And interesting Katie work for Apple We just recently assigned an agreement with Apple on renewable energy where we've agreed We will go to 100% renewable energy as a whole as a company as a company as a supplier to Apple I think that's a part in the value chain. The second part is we ourselves have committed to reduce greenhouse gas reduction So I think it needs to be suppliers. It needs to be to improve our own footprint, but also work with customers Let me give you an example of one of the technologies we apply Which is linked to customers and it has to do with thinking circular Because addressing climate change is about changing the mindset from linear thinking You use raw materials you produce something you sell it and then its landfill or end of life We would like to re-examine that end of life concept into circular for instance in the US we have invested quite some money in using waste of corn stoves to make Biofuels second generation biofuels. So not the food or the corn itself, but the waste of it with otherwise would be Deleted and we make biofuels out of that. So circular thinking helps addressing climate change Sir circular thinking is important the biofuels all know it is a very important What about that that question that Katie just raised the in terms of the cost of benefit It is is a area that I should put my money in there right now But the interesting is that you need to start with innovation with trust And you will definitely see barriers along the way. How long should I trust you a long time? But also a short time. The interesting is we have measured what we call a co-plus. Those are innovations which add to a better alternative to the world Better in terms of footprint better in terms of efficiency And we have seen that these technologies and these products grow faster and have a very good result So people sometimes think it's either you're sustainable or you're profitable That's the wrong dimension. You can do both, but it needs some time to do that All right, we'll come back to that then now I move to Japan the from BP we all know BP represents the stand for British petroleum But not everyone know now you have a new name to be on petroleum and just tell us What does that mean beyond petroleum and what you do to address these concerns sometimes from people about petroleum? Thank you. Thank you for that good question BP yes, we are oil gas company and Used to be only oil gas, but the word Faces a due challenge on one hand. We are expecting 9.2 billion people by 24 day and Energy demand growth is still very high and we are talking about 25% growth in the next 27 years again So for that reason we have to demand provide Clean affordable energy to people on the other hand we have also challenging of reducing emissions So for BP we have decided and launched the new strategies First one is to produce more gas for example last year out of seven projects Six of them were gas projects and this year six projects again big project four of them is gas and that's the number one and we're going to Generate the more gas in our mix right now. It's a 50 gas 50 percent of oil and the second late by doing that By doing that it's a lighter. Yeah cleaner exactly the carbon. Yes. Yes, but that's not enough We are every year we invest now about half billion dollars in advancing low carbon solutions as well as identify new innovations for example in US our Wing power already provides enough power that is enough for 400,000 households in US in Brazil we use sugar king for biofuels and the bagasse the waste from the biofuels we use that to generate biomass for the power and In the United States we just acquired a company called the light source in the Participate in sort of percentage. This is the biggest solar power developer In Europe, so we are trying to build our solar power presence worldwide has already established lots of projects And in addition to solar power by renewables We have lots of other innovations of projects and I guess that have a lot to do with your investment What was the technology friend the you know, what's it's your your your best technology your silver bullet for you know I should put my money There's a lots of them right the way okay, and the first one we actually investing company called the Solidia Solidia is a company that actually can help the cement industry to cure the carbon dioxide and I just Have been told from my managing director responsible for the venturing business Myself and in the audience the who does not really know do not know much about that technology. How does that work? 7% of the carbon dioxide emission right now is from a cement industry. Okay, so in that process you have carbon dioxide Amid it and the Solidia they have innovated a good technology have a curing process to prevent Capture the carbon dioxide. So that's really a very exciting Project we are investing and another one is called the four-prong. We also invest that Company along with Kathy and other partners that is using waste to generate the bio jet Fuel for aviation now we all have heard about Light vehicles to use a EV but what about the four jet fuel so this company has identified a good technology That can convert Eventually the jet fuel using bio jet because 7% of carbon dioxide in the world now is emitted from a aviation field so this is another technology we are really excited about and Among lots of other things we are also looking at advanced the mobility area Did you can if I may a shopping the did few area? kind of scene How much of that you're doing from the bio? The biofuel technology right now. We're investing this technology We hope to bring that technology to different the countries and they Make that available. How soon you think the cost of for that kind of technology can can go down to be competitive Compared to the this oil-based I think you know sometimes when we are looking at all the innovation Talents from the worldwide from a solo from weighing from a bio seems like a cost of All this new technology Been decreasing very fast when we you know all invest and I hope cultivate and I hope to scale up Okay, with the new investment. I'm sure Let's hope that learning curve Quickly yeah, yeah, and we're good companies like BP. We just hope to invest in this company help to scale up And then hopefully we can make the technology more cost-effective. That's good. Thank you, Jay you're from a Place where is also home to another major oil companies, right? The I think was a Chevron over there, but your but your work is the Internet of Things and We haven't heard so much about Internet of Things But give us some concrete examples how this kind of technology can actually help us to reduce carbon emission to address climate to climate threat Before I go down with specific answer to that question, right? I'll address the opportunity space first a little bit I think today's era of Technology information technology is unbelievable the velocity of change in terms of compute Storage and networking technologies as they're evolving is huge. So information processing Context you know contextualizing this information Analyzing it creating insights all of that can lead to good proof of value for all of these solutions that are being talked about So information processing information Technology is the area where we are deploying a lot of solutions for like thousands of customers, but In terms of IOT specifically if you look at it, what does IOT enable? It lets you sense and detect and acquire a lot of information in real time close to real time Getting all that information storing it Processing it contextualizing it correlating it creating analytics and Insights out of it doing service lifecycle management that end-to-end Use cases are big in energy efficiency. I think most of our People who have very expensive assets very difficult to operate very costly to operate They look for operational efficiency and one aspect of it is pure energy efficiency. So 10 20 30 sometimes The adage goes what you measure is what you can manage So once you start measuring you have boatloads of information that you get and you can suddenly get the right dial to optimize So people are it's an experimentation process, right? The answers are not known ahead of time You go do an analytics workbench try out a few examples and then you start optimizing So that value realization what we have seen with customers is around energy efficiency. That's one vector Utilities are doing a good job in water management. We were talking earlier about Non-revenue water from source to consumption. How much gets wasted, right? Just simple sensors to detect active and passive ones to detect leakage You know saves a lot of natural resources. So areas of saving water improving from production distribution and consumption of energy various opportunities exist and You know depends on which dial you want to optimize We can do that. I buy this argument that the above measurement measurement is so important before for addressing this energy efficiency Issue but at the same time, you know some argue. This is a for an efficiency problem You also have a rebound effect, right? The your refrigerator used to be a very low efficiency in the past 30 years ago 20 years ago Now you have a much higher efficiency refrigerator, but you get a much bigger refrigerator in your home So how do we address that problem with this IoT? I think from an IoT standpoint the downside as I talked about the opportunity space I'll reflect on the downside one is there's a lot ton of noise ton of data that you acquire and you don't do much with it so Getting a very systems View a holistic view not optimizing one subsystem here or another subsystem there, but doing it holistically getting a systems engineering view of things which kind of You know up levels you to a more macro view of the world right macro view of at a home level You're not optimizing the refrigerator of the kitchen consumption of power for example in the refrigerator case you're looking at it holistically at the home level at the community level at the Distribution network level so at the various levels in which the systems can be designed You have to start measuring and managing it then what kind of internet of things taken out of your are you using on hold? Multiple I think the sensor technologies are diamond doesn't today In fact my biggest concern with the volume of sensors and data acquisition systems that have come up is about the e-waste That we are generating I think I churn out more waste at my own home with the number of switches that I have to replace every year Because they're not connecting to the new network for example the point is the Simplistically the architecture of an IOT solution Can be broken into three pieces the edge tier which is where all the sensors the data acquisition systems are all there You have the platform tier So there's a lot of lot of progress in the cloud-based ecosystem today I look at what I'm AWS is doing what Google is doing what Microsoft Azure is doing all of these cloud Technologies have suddenly made the platform tier very interesting and very cost effective and energy effective as well Then you have the analytics insights and all this enterprise tier. I think in this architecture You have to have an end-to-end view a more holistic view Technology is not the issue as Katie pointed out even Dimitri mentioned like this tons of technology available It's a how do you construct a nice system of systems a holistic view model it? Look at the use cases drive for outcomes drive for business value and then you know proof of value test it out try it out One insight may be worth a ton. I'm sure and then 250 others may not be worth Realizing any value then you drop them you go. It's still a very agile way of working We need Not just a single individual technology, but really we need a system in terms of system Also need a better governance system Katie you raised a very important question in order for Technology to be utilized in the real world. We really need the help from the public policy front and Here in China there has been a lot of government support for solar Technology for when to technology the last May May 31st the government decided to remove All the subsidies for a solar power generation and to generate is a lot of the complaints of course then what kind of Public policy you would like to see to support Where do you find the the shorted of supply of a good public policy for support for for sporting these kind of? technology technological innovation Yeah application, I guess first off there. I think there's a Lot we can learn from what China has done really well in the last you know five plus years around renewable energy incentives and policies and some Some lessons learned of things to do better. So a big piece of what public policy has to do is create Long-term consistency in a view of where we're going the US has struggled because we have enacted short-term renewable energy incentives that creates a real Sort of boom-and-bust cycle around say you know wind power development China has been good at creating long-term consistent policies and leveling the playing field you have to either Acknowledge that fossil fuel generation is being subsidized directly or indirectly And if you're not going to remove those advantages you have to create equalizing advantages for renewables The same time I I recognize and appreciate how difficult that is because there is the criticism of that the Renewable energy incentives in China were too Rich at times which doesn't foster the greatest efficiency for the technology and this is where I think Creating policies around climate technology is so difficult and I have great respect for the people who have to work on this to walk that fine line between Bring these technologies down the cost curve and sort of up up to scale while not Creating the wrong incentives. So for example here in China you have I think two and a half times as much solar and wind capacity than in the US which is incredible And most of it has been in the last few years But only 40% more generation from wind and solar which is saying that wind and solar in China is operating in a much lower Efficiency and much less productive assets and why is that and there are a number of reasons? So how do you make sure you're getting the scale while you're also getting the performance? This has less to do with technological Innovation here you have a large-scale curtailment problem The wind power Station, but you're really not really generating the power Right and that gets to actually a technology that wouldn't necessarily be thought of as climate technology, but Is smart grids? I mean if you really want to decarbonize energy systems you need Incredibly agile and intelligent grids that move power You know high-voltage lines that move power across using IoT technology That can immediately respond to to what's happening in the grid That's the only way you can really get to the you know 65% renewable Grids we say we need in order to sort of meet the Paris climate accord with the existing technology right now We have devolved it in in China US Europe and so on so forth and Now I know you have been working in Africa. Yeah, and a huge continent huge opportunities over there if you are going to bring these technologies To Africa to address this climate of resilience Problem the climate mitigation problem. What kind of technology we should look at sure to bring this these technologies to them So first off I should say, you know, I'm based in Kenya and one cool statistic is last year 77% of Kenya's power generation was renewable mostly hydro and geothermal. So And I think there are a lot of examples of that in different parts of the continent. So We have the opportunity to keep countries like Kenya on a on a low carbon path While we need to very quickly respond to the sort of inequality and lack of access that people have a A couple things that I see a cross-up there in Africa 600 million people don't have access to modern electricity And that needs to be addressed as soon as possible and a lot of analysis shows that a 200-300 million of that 600 should be reached through grid extension. That's the most cost-effective way, but another You know, three to four hundred are best reached through Decentralized energy systems, and I think one of the most interesting but still economically challenging is our mini grids, and I think that's where we may see the greatest Adoption of mini grid technology solar plus storage You know at rapid scale with the right policy and center very helpful. Thank you I want to shift gear a little bit Dimitri, I know your company is particularly your your president CEO play very important role in carbon financing worldwide and Europe of course has been leading in carbon market and according to the theory that the carbon market can promote technological innovation and application So looking at your own company What do you see the the EU ETS? System this the emission trading system Actually helping your company Meeting that goal. Yeah, right. I think it's it's the key question and thank you for that And that's also why I think governments should play an important role To your question to Katie and I would like to to re-emphasize that it is it is producers like us It is consumers like all of us And I think we as its consumers can push it even further to buy products which are climate friendly But certainly also governments in a carbon price because the issue is today We live in a world where the economic system is The mainstream and it means that if you make profit you do well We as a company think that is an old system thinking You need to think about people planet profit You need to think about a holistic view on what you deliver to the world and we feel that Waste should have a price. I'll come back to that on carbon today 9% of What we produce is circular so it's being reused in other words 91% is either land-filled incinerated or leaked some out in this world That is that is unacceptable and has to change and therefore there needs to be a system change on how we think about our economic value, so Carbon price is a small step to that and carbon price started in several countries and Very happy to see after the COP 21. There's a sort of a mutual agreement that is the way forward And the interesting is that we started in Europe With the carbon price. We're about 1300 companies about 88 countries Covering about 20% of all carbon emissions is covered today via carbon price It started also in Europe with a price around six euros, so six dollars and Today it is above 20 and If it's above 20 and it's creeping into the 40 50 region It will have an impact on economic thinking Because then basically you don't assume ways to be zero or a carbon emission to be zero It has a price and that will also favor innovation Climate-friendly technologies and I think we need end-end-end so we need push from the government We need to push from the consumers give us an example. Give us an example. You know how that carbon pricing the Based on the carbon market system particularly the EU ETF actually made your business decision Adjusted for for technological innovation in DSM Maybe maybe two things one on the strategy. It impacts quite a bit what we do at DSM and also on the product So let me start with a strategy DSM is an old company exists 117 years and we reinvent ourselves based on what we see in the market Our recently launched strategy in June is called purpose-led performance driven around three Business domains nutrition and health Resources and circularity in climate and energy. So all innovation is around these three circles That leads to innovation in certain fields of climate and energy. I'll give you an example The ones we currently are working on is improving the solar efficiency We're talking about data big data intelligence. The interesting is if you capture one and a half hour of Sun a day Throughout the year. It's enough for a year's energy The problem is that the efficiency of solar panels is not good enough So we develop coatings to improve the uptake and the reception of Sun on solar cells If there will be a carbon price of 50 to 100 euros a ton Then it's not only economically viable. It's one of the best products. We ever developed So even without a carbon price it helps but the transition even without the subsidies on solar panels It will help with a carbon price. So you're not only depending on subsidizing the solar energy You're helping your customers, but do you get return you get the adequate return from that practice? The interesting on solar panels is because you innovate you can also install new business models So we also working on business models where we basically improve the efficiency of our customers We will give them the coating for free and then we earn the money back on the higher efficiency So we have an agreement with the customer and say hey, you don't believe on the higher efficiency We'll apply the coating and we share our efficiency improvement 50 50 a fantastic model great I'm gonna show me and I'm going to ask the same question to you to very different type of a companies, right? I say all in the gas company started in Europe and How do you feel your company feel the this pressure from that the carbon market particularly then you ETS We're talking about how much of that the the pressure is actually Pushing the company BP towards innovation I would say actually BP has been advocate for carbon price for years So it's not the pressure. It's our own initiative as well. And we think Corporation I agree with the military government the consumer producer all of us have a Responsibility to make sure we actually continuously reduce the carbon footprint So in BP we have actually Energized the entire workforce all the business 70,000 people or more to use a Rick framework Rick stands for reduce improve create IC so we want to reduce our footprint for example committed to reduce a 3.5 million tons carbon dioxide emission by 2025 and we commit to grow our business, but don't increase the net carbon dioxide Emission by 2025 based on 2015 and We lead the industry to say we want to meet meeting Intensity to less than 0.2 percent for example We want to do that because it's our strategy to have advanced solutions improve for example The PTA technology PTA is a key raw material for our fiber fabrics, etc Our technology will improve in such way that common dioxide emission is 65% lower than other technology as example and when you improve our for example the emission from The few transportation few I mentioned a little bit more Before about the biofuel few etc. And then we also use bio synthetic Lubricants for example and working on the additives to ensure we can improve that as well Let me just further after this question according to the Paris agreement The world is going to Decerminize the economy by the middle of this century. It's just look at this not too too far from I know many of us sitting here will see the end of fossil fuel age and How how would a company like yours? to adjust To this new target set, you know by the world and for the world Yeah, I think you know if we can grow business without growing carbon dioxide Identify all the solutions. That's a really good thing. Do you know a strategy? Yes? Yes. Yes, we all that that work Yeah, so so beyond petroleum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and let me give you example The if I just may talk about the PTA we not only created good PTA technology and processes We also created a product called PTA where we help consumers to use our product in a carbon neutral footprint by You know creating some other kind of carbon credits for example We just invest announced the investment with the helium a forestry company in China We will increase the forest footprint so that we can reduce the carbon footprint Once you make your commitment says well, I want to grow business but without Increasing that there's lots of ideas and innovations come but that's more of on the site line The you know into a corporate so for its responsibility area rather than a mainstream business strategy though Well mean business strategy. I mentioned about Switching to more gas as one example. Okay, and looking at our Meething emission for example how the fugitive emission can be reducing our operations and 3.5 million tons of carbon dioxide reduction net reduction by 2025 All these are the commitments that you have to identify in lots of areas energy efficiency Jay was talking about we are looking at all the options for modernizing our Operations as well as digitalizing so that we can be efficient and lots of things need to be taken natural gas That's a steel. Well, first of all, I still part of the fossil fuel and it's considered to be a bridge field And that's still you know will have to be faced out at some point, right? Yeah, right? Yeah, I think that's why You know, I mentioned about us investing half billion dollars a year in looking at renewable energy wind solar bio bio fuel bio power bio jet and all these holistic solutions We're more toward about to renewable to new petroleum beyond gas Go toward this they're pretty soon I'm going to invite everyone from the audience for their comments and and the questions Katie You have a question. Well, I was just you know on the natural gas topic This is a really tricky one if we're talking about Kind of a low-carbon future because it is much it is lower carbon by many measures It is a cleaner fuel than than other fossil fuels But you build a natural gas plant and you've locked that power capacity in for decades So to this question of what are the technologies we should be investing in now I think there is an important debate and a healthy tension around Natural gas helps us get on a lower carbon pathway, and that's very positive especially for countries that don't have sufficient energy capacity today, but It's hard to call it a bridge fuel if it ends up being a few decades the bridge is a few decades long Right, we don't have that time So it's an important debate Thank you, Katie But as you want to come to Jay the you know the theme for this annual meeting this year is about the the force industrial revolution and also innovation innovative society in the economy and Speaking of measurement you just mentioned and measurement technology for say carbon dioxide concentration greenhouse gas the Concentration in the atmosphere the measurement just tell us the you know how this IOT Technology actually helped to advance the measurement capture the big picture, you know where we are we know we are much higher than 400 ppm part per million by volume in the atmosphere this is compared to 280 pre-industrial level and but we want to get accurate measurement of this everywhere in the world help us and even down to maybe to business level and also to the Household level measurement. What what what can we get from from this advancement in technology, right? So just to answer your question the sensor technologies themselves have gotten way advanced right in terms of the margin of error The sensitivity levels calibration of those sensor technologies has reached a point where you can get good good data points Now how does information flow and whose sensors provide these information points? That is another big challenge today you we talked about gaps Opportunities are there but the gaps are that information flow across the world at different places different organizations data flow Information flow is still very constrained access and transparency is still very constrained. You don't have Visibility on a timely so that you can do interventions on a timely basis. You don't have access to that kind of Infrastructure so the while there is a significant hype around the IoT space where you know There's a lot of point of proof of value proof of concepts scale deployments happening It is still not at a level of maturity Where the volumes are significant that we have a global footprint which gives us accurate Seamless pieces of information so the center actually that is one of our motivations in joining the C4 IR in San Francisco The idea is that whatever reference solutions we build whatever implementation guides we put together that can be globally diffused Everybody in every part of the world gets it. I'm very happy to see the China Center Getting open today Japan is done India is done so across the world I think the the governance aspect the policy aspects of deploying these technologies needs to become more seamless I think we still have significant gaps there I did want to talk to one point that you had mentioned about efficiency of the wind farms Despite high levels of implementation volume the efficiencies are lower So in fact, you know, we did a lot of work around how these windmills actually operate and how you can optimize You can if you squeeze out five seven ten percent per windmill But now you look at a larger construct of larger system of Larger collection of windmills right how they operate together as one farm Yeah, how they operate across so the system of systems principle right applying those And leveraging them to optimize at a much higher level. There's still ways to go I think while I'm all excited about the technology aspect saying compute storage network technologies are amazingly good now It continues to go down this price performance value chain Increase performance lower price But we still have a lot of ways to go great I would like to invite the first round of questions and comments from our audience and for those of you, please identify yourself first and Put it in a very straightforward way. Yeah, please Hi there. My name is dr. Fiona Beck from the Australian National University. I'm one of the young scientists community I'm interested in what the panel thinks about the About the the possibility of a hydrogen economy for deep decarbonization and there has been several national and from Japan and Australia and international reports about the unique probability possibilities right now about The emergence of a hydrogen economy. Thank you very much a prospect of a hydrogen technology Let me just collect a few more questions before I move on right gentlemen over there. Peace Hi, my name is Jake. Okay, Chico. I follow you. I'm a global shaper with the abou jahal I'm Just gonna make reference to the gospel about the Paris Agreement trying to decarbonize the world by the mid of the century It's not something many African states would say amen to because it doesn't really make a business case for them And the options are quite limited because in terms of producing these technologies that are green technologies We don't really have to resource to produce them so I wanted to ask if you thought about Technology transfer and how you think that might work because with the fourth industrial evolution These technologies are just incrementally changing and advancing and we just can't catch up and we can't make money from these technologies We don't produce them. What do you think is the solution? And I know Kenya is a good success case But Nigeria is quite different because you know, I'm sure you know the peculiarities about my country Well, what do you think would be the solution for these states who actually want to do something about like? Climate change, but none of these things are working for us For you Katie because he was looking at you. Yes, gentlemen over there, please I'm Vinit Mittal from India. We had set up first large grid connected solar system in India way back in 2010 When we got the tariff of 32 us since Per kilowatt hour and yesterday we won a 500 megawatt project at three and a half cents and we are not losing money and There's no government incentive So what China and Germany have done over last eight years Is to innovate and bring down because of the scalability and advancement in technology the cost has come down drastically and If private sector cooperate like say Apple or Google they start buying energy directly from players like us in Africa and India and Government doesn't get bullied by the thermal power producers because now we are cheaper than them so in India the thermal power is close to nine to ten cents and on the Exchange yesterday it was sold for 30 cents So if thermal powers are becoming less competitive despite all the subsidies whereas solar and winds are becoming more competitive in India and in Africa also in three countries We have we are doing projects at almost 40% of their conventional power cost with the storage so it is becoming It's becoming more competitive more reliable and you can Take out the unreliability part with the batteries and innovation Thank you. Thank you. I probably leave that question to the two gentlemen over here I have the last question for the first round, please right No, I'm my line held are one of the tech pioneers of the world economic forum We produce electricity with living plants as a new sustainable energy source So listening to the discussion and like framing it in the fourth industrial revolution I'm missing a bit of courage So you're telling like we're investing half a billion every year into renewables That's less than one and a half percent of your total profit. Sorry to say but so I'm sort of I would like to challenge all of you to come up with some like really bold ideas Like what are the really big things that we could do like to turn this around? I hear you say well, we should invest in scaling up like existing Technologies like stuff that has been proven. So what about the stuff that's coming if we for example? Don't want to go through gas to renewables But we want to skip gas and do like renewables at this at once which would be Obviously better for the environment. So what could we do? Can you come up with some really like challenging ideas bold ideas that we well, that will all of us make us happy Well, thank you very much. I think that's a terrific question. I want to our Speakers to address that and everyone everyone in the audience who would like to take on that challenge Please just just go ahead. Let's let's just Take care of the first round of question Katie. Let's start from you over here, right? You have particularity You know, I'll take the question that I think was directed my way. Anyway, I think he raised a really good point and this is one of the important sort of ethical Discussions to be had around kind of the whole the entire movement towards a low-carbon Economy when you have a number of emerging markets that haven't yet fully electrified their countries and have major energy scarcity issues But I think to to what? the gentleman here the solar developer in India said I Think it's sometimes a false trade-off to say that these technologies are more expensive because in Nigeria today, I believe that something like two to four gigawatts of diesel generators get installed every year It's huge and that's a very expensive cost of generation. So if that's your benchmark There are tons of renewable technologies that are that are more compelling economically than fossil fuels It's I think it's more of an execution challenge than a pure economic benchmarking challenge But I I do think you raise a really important point around getting more of the Value-added services happening locally as opposed to just importing the technologies to the extent that we can be doing more local manufacturing of this kind of equipment and creating Sort of business opportunities locally. That's when it starts to really take off. Thank you Katie for that hydrogen question, can I Ask you shall be Just not only beyond fossil fuel should be on fuel itself, right? We're moving into a very very different area of energy So BP actually just published our new technology outlook and we try to look at all the Research papers results worked with academics as well as other Research institutes and we set together do some kind of outlook. It's all about the views, isn't it? and That view is with view the hydrogen fuel cell technology is going to be competitive by Middle of the century, that's what we predict of course it depends on lots of things, right? how much you put in and What is the technology breakthrough and the government to support among other things but we do view that could be a very? Sustainable competitive technology in the middle century, but if I may I also like to answer that question about How can we take a bold move? I've been in this industry for over 20 years and I really want to have a magic bullet But the funny thing is more I know about it and more I found it's so complex so difficult It's not just one magic bullet. It really needs to have Everybody in BP as well as everybody in the oil gas industry to work together to come up with a solution every each aspect and process consumers producers that's why Our CEO Bob Dudley has called You know turn oil gas companies together Form he is a chairman of OG CI oil gas climate Initiatives we want to work together to say what's the solution for the world to meet the Paris Agreement and To come up with a solution that can provide a heat Light mobility to people who want to have good living as well as the common dioxide issues So it's a journey and I'm glad we have made lots of progresses, but it's not one solution fits all It's just very very complex issues. Well, we just hope that journey is not too long Yeah, yes, please I want to build on on the request on on being a bit more bold Because it hurts a little bit, right? We're thinking Are we bold enough? It's defensive, but I think it's fair. It's a fair challenge And I think certainly here around the world can reform we should be challenging ourselves and and I was firstly thinking What if we are not bold don't worry because others outside our own establishment will be bold, right? So if we don't make it fine point and some of the cases I don't even think you should bank on the establishment because they will work Against new things because they have their own legacy assets, right exactly. I'm slightly more positive On what's happening over the last five years because we get acceleration and I will give you an area where DSM plays a role And that's an electrical vehicles We produce materials for electrical vehicles and we work with customers Which we didn't have two years ago. I Mean there are companies in China who didn't exist two years ago and have just launched a full electrical vehicle last week in March So these companies are really bold and I feel that we are bold to work together with these But it's a bit indirect, but so I get your point Let me think about it before becoming defensive, but it's a fair point I think we all need to be bold, but I'm also with them with your ping I don't believe it will be one technology will make it work. I think it will be multitude of technologies Working against a better future and the beauty is that after the COP 21 agreement in Paris We are on a highway with different technologies and different approaches with different speeds But at least we're heading into the same direction Well, you just mentioned that word acceleration the Actually, that is a key feature for this industrial and technological revolution We are talking about the good news is if you look at the major economies, you can see a accelerated transition from a high carbon Energy to a lower carbon carbon energy system for all major economies include the United States include it the China UK, you know Europe It's all have accelerated in the last a decade, which is a really good news the So Jay, would you like to the address that question just to mention, you know different countries have different stages then You know you guys talking about this probably state-of-the-art Technology, but still we need to look at the specific economic and the political social situation And when applying to this a technology in a holistic way From a capability standpoint, I think everybody around the world wants the very best of capabilities So you can't dump things down in terms of the value proposition in terms of the cost So I'm just talking about the grid the smart grid example you used Putting a small edge gateway that does analytics at the edge and figures out where to source the power from It's a simple algorithm running in a simple software container running in a little hardware at the edge at the consumption endpoint Right to just now creating one for US market creating one for Europe market for the Asian market South American market African market so again the pricing model the cost Involved in producing something like that to get consumed We cannot compromise on some of the quality capabilities that because people expect a good level of capability It's about how do you how do you build technology that is sustainable and globally deployable? so we have had significant challenges in that because a Product or a solution built for the US market may not sustain in some other markets But over over time what we have noticed in the last two three. That's the whole is in the last two three years There's more democratization of technology ingredients. There's more Availability and price performance value has gotten much much better So it's reaching a point at least in the last financial year that we had where some of these solutions are Very effective and at best you don't have to go through a massive proof of value return on investment Justification process to adopt some of these technologies But we still have challenges I think the price of compute storage and network will continue to go in a good direction So we will keep building these solutions with the center and kind of diffuse them globally It's it's interesting time. Yeah, let to be bold. Let me just ask the audience here, especially those of you Who have been working in this technology area? Those of you have young bright minds and Some terrific ideas. Yeah, I got this young bright minds over here. Tell us how you how you take this About being young. I'm not so sure but I'm a physicist at CERN And I want to give you an example of the difficulty of innovation CERN the yeah, tell us where it's that for Sorry, yeah CERN is the in the urban organization for nuclear research That's the place where we discovered the Higgs particle a few years ago And it's the place also where we invented the World Wide Web among other things and many other things But I want to say is that to give you an example of how difficult it is to Propose innovation if it doesn't have anything to do with wind or solar energies At CERN we have demonstrated technology that would allow to use thorium as a primary energy source And and make thorium a sustainable source of energy now nuclear energy nuclear industry, sorry does not like it So we since government listened to nuclear industry We don't get instant institutional funding and then private sector doesn't Like to invest in something that might take 10 to 15 years before they make money So how do you get out of this type of dilemma that? It doesn't work either way But we as physicists are convinced that this is certainly something that has to be to be studied you know the issue of Fossil fuel is so serious that I think you cannot exclude one direction of Research, especially when the basic technology has been already demonstrated Yeah, that's a very interesting comments the It's really hard to to look at you know beyond when and solar nowadays talking about clean energy And CERN you have a lot of innovation going on over there Perhaps just tell us a little bit more that the You know, what are the challenges as a scientist innovators you face For well, what would you like to see to facilitate your innovation? Well, I can give you an example for example. We have collaborators who have designed a Special accelerator that would produce a high power beam in a very compact way and in a very Cost effective way compared to other things that are developed for example in China There is one project also accelerator driven system which uses a linac that we have developed a cyclotron That would make this thing cost effective now we submitted you know proposal for funding to the European Union and You know, you know, you can guess what happens It's reviewed by at least one person from nuclear industry and they they just say no thanks. It's great But no thanks and as it is the difficulty we have we are facing so we Well, I I hope you understand the the difficulty but these technology has been demonstrated We've done experiments at CERN that Verified the basic concept of such systems and then all the components exist, you know in Sweden today Somebody's some people are building the European Neutron-spalation source. It's a beam of five megawatt with five megawatt beam you can With the system we propose make unit of a hundred to two hundred megawatt electric power For one billion euro of that order. I mean this is a rough estimate because you have not done the In this realization, but I mean these things are realistic. However, it doesn't seem to be Happening because we don't get any Help that. Thank you very much. I understand we don't have a lot of time left. Thank you very much for for reading the hand. I Probably just to go real quickly around The table here the you know now we are in the fourth Industrial revolution in 20 seconds. How are you prepared for that? I think I'll borrow the one-line statement be bold Be bold and test and try out. Don't hold back on innovation and Katie like you moved to Africa and Waiting for the or are not not waiting Preparing for the first revolution. Yeah, technology. I mean that's where I think there needs to be sort of an equitable Distribution of where the investments are going for climate technologies and energy infrastructure equity for everyone Thank you very much inclusive. All right. I'm a stubborn optimist. So I think we'll make it work Remember this room 10 years ago. There will be no smartphones. All right. Look how that changed the world So I'm a stubborn optimist. I think within 10 years from now. We're here. We see a complete different world a better world Thank you and BP. How are you prepared? I like the word of being bold as well and our CEO says we want to grow business But without growing come dioxide emissions by 2025 That's very very bold and we are more energized by ever to put our thoughts our efforts everyone's efforts to make sure we can Face the challenge providing the energy to people who need while reducing Commodals emissions being bold. Thank you very much that concluded this round of a discussion I want to thank all to all of you for your participation Apologies to all of you who have a lot of questions and comments and stay tuned come back next next year Thank you so much