 How great it was to see some of y'all in the flesh last night. Thanks for coming to Joe's Pub. That was fun. That was fun. But today, it's Watch Me Work. It's Watch Me Work, where the me and the title is you. Now you guys know, so hey, hey, Watch Me Work people. For those of you who don't know what this is, I'll give the little intro. It's Watch Me Work, where we hang out together and get some work done. And the focus is on your work and your creative process. We've been doing this for going on 12 years now. And we thank HowlRound and we thank the Public Theater for making it happen. And here's how we work together. We hang out and I set the timer for 20 minutes. And then we work together. And then we come back and we talk about your work and your creative process. And, Audrey, if there's something else that I've forgotten to say. You didn't forget. It's my turn to tell you how to answer questions. So we're good. So if you want to ask a question and you're inside of the Zoom, all you need to do is click on the Raise Your Hand button, which is in the Reactions tab, which is likely at the bottom of your screen on a laptop or the top if you're on an iPad or a tablet. And if you're watching on our stream, you can ask us questions at Watch Me Work SLP on Twitter with the hashtag HowlRound, H-O-W-L-R-O-U-N-D. Or you can write to the Public Theater's Instagram or Twitter and we'll get it that way. I think that's it, though. And I think that's it. Yeah, except all the good juicy stuff that happens. Starting now, are we ready? And. All right. OK. All right. Here we are. We're back. We're here. We got a question. You ready? Yeah. All right. All right, Larry. Go for it. Hi, SLP. Hey, Larry. How you doing, man? OK, how are you? Good, good, good. Happy Monday. Happy Monday. I have a possible opportunity waiting to find out. I may get a grant through my school to do a workshop. And I wanted to talk to you about the workshop. And I guess having been, I met you through ACT and we did lots of little workshops. And regional theaters do a lot of workshops and sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. Even be constructive and not so constructive. And I guess I just was wondering what your experience is in terms of has it helped you to hand your play over to actors and listen to actors do it? And when do you do that in your process? How do you prepare for that as a writer? Do you do you just simply try to finish a play and then you hear it? Or do you ever go into a workshop with certain questions or unfinished ideas or things like that? I don't know. I just was interested in your experience as a writer handing your work to actors while you're still in process. Great question, Larry. And congratulations on maybe getting an opportunity to develop your work. Very cool, very cool, very cool. Yeah, right, right. That's really great, man. Yeah, I mean, different writers work differently and certainly you work differently. The same writer might work differently, given different situations, you know? If they're actors, you know really well. It's a different kind of situation than actors that you don't know at all, a director that you've never worked with, that kind of thing. So it does vary. Also, what you want out of the workshop varies. So without you don't have to sort of name names or get specific, but is it a group that you know well or is it a group that you're totally new to or what? Actually, I'm thinking of amassing actors. As I told you, I've sort of, this is my, I don't know if you remember, this little Sisyphus play of mine. And I sort of developed it sort of like back and forth through like sort of like a devising thing and then just a writing thing. And the pendulum is kind of swung between sort of building it through my directing ability and then just pushing myself to just, Larry, shut up, you're a writer, stop being a director and just pretend you're a writer. And one of the things I feel like is that I've lost a little bit of the spirit of wanting it to reflect voices other than my own. So I was thinking about basically getting a group of actors that have not participated in the process at all and kind of testing and see how does it sound with people who don't know what the hell I'm talking about, who haven't been involved in the beginning and just seeing, does it stand on its own and what do new voices bring to it? So they'd be actors, I know, but they don't know. They don't know the project. Right, they don't know the piece. Well, okay, let's see. Because there's so many variables here. So I would say what I like to do is I like to finish your work before I, I mean, not finish, get to the end, like the end, literally the end, you know? That's just my process. But some writers go in and they've got an idea, you know, and they're gonna workshop it and figure out. I like to go in with the, having gotten to the end. Again, I'm not judging the quality of my draft, you know? I got to the end. I like to do what I call the writer's work, which then frees up the actors to do the actor's work. Again, this is just me. I'm not one of those writers so far anyway, who goes in going, I don't know the story of the play at all. Actors, could you help me? You know, a lot of writers do that. I don't know these characters. If they're maybe outside of my presenting person, my presenting self, you know? Actor, I'm gonna cast some actors who live in that experience daily. Maybe they can help me. I'm not one of those writers. You know, I'm gonna go there as best I can. If I'm writing something who is outside of my person or not, I'm gonna go there as best I can. So I'm not asking the actors to do the work that I consider to be the writer's work. I'm asking the actors to amplify and clarify what I've gotten so far. And not help me figure it out. That's the, you know? Because then I feel like they do their best work. It's like if you have kids and you know, your parenting, you know, you're gonna lead, you know? And then people can feel comfortable in what they have to do. That's just my style, though. But different people work different ways and they're all valid. You just have to let the actor, everybody know what the expectations are from the beginning. So for me, I like to be, have reached an end of a script. I'm personally just to take that to the next level. I like to be a couple of drafts in. I haven't yet been so eager to, I gotta hear it, you know? I can hear it fine at home in my head, you know? Or if I need to hear it out loud, I can read it aloud. I only bring in other people when I've done a significant amount of work. Not done, not perfect, but just a significant amount of work so that I can lead, you know? So, and that doesn't exclude, you know, other voices, ideas or anything like that. It's just, it's my play. It's my script. It's not our script. We are not writing it. I'm writing, you know? And they're acting and that this person over here is directing or whatever. Yeah, does that help it also? And workshops, you know, they can last a week, they can last a month. They could be workshop just before the production, you know, it really depends what kind of expectations you have and what the runway looks like. You know, are you gonna take flight? Are you just gonna workshop in this? I thank you very much and we'll see you next incarnation, that kind of thing, it depends. Is that helpful? Okay, but congratulations on having that opportunity. Sounds like it's gonna be fun. Thanks, Larry. All right, we're gonna go to Chris next. Go for it, Chris. Hey, Chris. Hi, Susan, Laurie. So my question for you is about, I've been working on this project for the last year and a half and for the first six months of it, I was writing it and then for the last year, I've been filming it and writing it as I've been making it and it's kind of a hybrid documentary. So parts of it are fictional scenes that are written by me and then parts of it are documentary scenes that are just kind of improvised and happen as I film them. And I'm now at the end of filming this project, I'm gonna be done in 10 days and I've been working on writing the final scenes and I've been rewriting them and rewriting them and none of the versions of the scenes have manifested in a way that feels like they're ready to film, but it feels like I'm running out of time. So I was just wondering if you have any thoughts or advice on the scenes that we rewrite and rewrite and we just can't quite crack them, particularly when you have a deadline that's coming up. That's a really great question. Particularly when we have a deadline and a medium that is a fixed film. Film is different from, I'm going into first previews on my play or something like that. Let's see, a couple. When do you have to give the pages to the actors? I'm assuming like the day of or day before? Oh, it's your muted question. One second, let me see if I can get you back on, sorry. There you go. Yes, I could give them the pages on the day of. Great, okay. So you have your finished line, right? Just day of so you can go, because if it were a play and we were going into previews, you just have to be mindful about when you're handing actors pages, right? So if it's a play, so it's medium dependent. Okay, so you have right up until the last day, right? And even on set. And you have the magical thing called reshoots. I mean, if you do that at all, I don't know. I think this project probably won't have reshoots, but. Because? I mean, it's a weird project. So a lot of it is, it's a project that I've been making with my family. It's kind of been about making a project in quarantine. And so I'm moving away. And part of it is just that like, I've been working this project for the last year and a half and I've been growing out my beard and my hair throughout the process of it. And so I'm just gonna be filming it. I'm gonna be shaving and cutting it all off the end of it. So it's just that if we were to reshoot, it would clearly be a different time. Okay. But I'm just saying that you are, so just, I would say keep that door open. You know that song? I'm gonna leave the door open. Okay, leave the door. I would say leave the door open. Okay. Because then you have, because making a film, I mean, in my experience, I made movies and TV shows, the film that is made in the editing room. And we do reshoots. It's part of the process. So that you gotta get it right on the day, sure, you gotta have the right pages to hand out. But if there's something that you wanna redo, you get reshoot. You can reshoot a scene. And so you can give yourself the opportunity. It's just like if you were say, I mean, there used to be writer, there used to be writers, there probably are still writers, but the beats, you know, first draft, best draft. I think it was the beats. It was some group of people. First draft, best draft. That's what they'd say. Like they didn't believe in rewriting. No, you know, I'm just a genius and I just put it out there and it's brilliant. And that's what we're gonna do. And that's something, okay, it's an idea. It's an idea. Great, great. You know, no worries, everybody. There are many different faiths and they're all valid, but some, you know, I like doing reshoots if I have to. I like doing rewrites if I would need to, you know? I'm, because, yeah. So I'm just saying, so you write all the way up until the day, until the morning, you know? And then you fly with what you've got. And then you consider the possibility of reshoots. I.e. you might not want to shave your beard until you feel like, yeah, I got it. You know what I mean? And even if you feel like wake up on the morning of with the pages that you feel good about, hand them out and shoot them, I would suggest still don't shave your beard. Yeah. Pause, see what you've got when you look at the dailies or however, you know, you're gonna look at it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And sit with it for a couple of days or a week or so. Just, just to give yourself some generosity there. Yeah. I would suggest. There's not the pressure of it has to be the version. Exactly. I mean, you know, there are times when I've, you know, had to, you know, play music or whatever. And you, you write the song and reread the song, you read the song, you go on stage with what you've got and you play it and it flies and fine. But you can always like, that's what I had on the day. But if you've got reshoots available to you, I'd say just consider it. Yeah. You know? Awesome. Thank you, Susan, Mari. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Thanks, Chris. All right, Vernita. Hi. Were you writing some articles? Is this, this the, were you writing some articles ages ago? Yeah. How'd it come out? Oh my goodness. Well, that's why I had to come back and share. So I'm like, I'm so glad this is here. Hey, SLP, hey, Audrey. I'm like the gang's all here. Chris will have this fire haircut. I'm loving her haircut. Melania's hair, yeah. I'm looking at everybody, Jim's hair. Everybody's here. Everybody. Everybody's here. So yes, well, one, I wanted to just quickly say congrats again on the United States versus Billie Holiday. Oh, thank you. Very, very much. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. So yes, the smart and hot article, the life form reliant that I called out, systemic racism, town and country, and the Hearst Corporation. Has, it was published in the Daily Beast. It was named Best of the Beast two years in a row. I just got that this past, a couple of weeks ago, November, because I published it in, thank you. In October of, it came out October, 2020. It was named Best of the Beast November, 2020. So I just got named again for November, 2021. Yes. Also awarding podcast episode around the article. Wow. New lifestyle brand. So one of the quotes in the article has lent to me really shaping a brand around this idea. I say in the article, black people are the definitive hot sauce on an otherwise bland white America. And so that has lent to the brand America's Hot Sauce. Right on, right on. And last thing I'm like, what else, what else? And responses from executives, one of the largest animation companies in the world or most historic reached out to me to inquire about doing equity and diversity consulting with them. Oh wow. So my question is, doing something like this again, because of flip sides. So I'm like, yay, all of these things happened. And I'm so incredibly grateful for this community that was on that journey with me, which ended up being a four month process. But the energy that I expended, what I never anticipated was the crash after doing that piece. So I mean, like I went through like, I had this pain that's robbing pain in my right, I'm right handed in my right wrist as I'm doing the drafting. And then like, once it was off, the pain and the risk alleviated. And it was also amazing to connect with other, with former black employees of this company who reached out and said, my God, it happened to me too. The article was my story as well as the story, my story as a consultant, but also the two other former black employees. But I have, I'm having trouble writing again. And it's almost like that was pouring. I poured all of myself, all of my heart, all of my energy, all of my processing, my own trauma, absorbing other people's trauma. And how do I really recuperate and be able to continue to write at a high level? Great question, Bernina. And congratulations on all your success. We're so proud of you. We're so proud of you. We're so rooting for you. Excellent job, sister, really, really, really great. And yeah, so how do you keep going? I mean, that's a question we all ask like every day. How do I keep going? How do I know what I'm done? And then how do I keep going? How do I know what I'm done? We asked that question over there. So now you're at the, how do I keep going? You said you used the words recuperate. Sure, just do some fun things. It's the holidays, whatever you celebrate, much of the Western world is celebrating the holidays. So enjoy whatever things sort of present themselves to you as things that might be enjoyable. binge watch your favorite shows, hang out with your friends, maybe do some non-work related things, read for pleasure, write for pleasure, just write stuff, just let your mind wander, do some self-care things. You know what I mean? And I mean, I think what I hear in that, it's weird just certain amount of anxiety about like, we'll just work out and we'll just come through. And if I remember correctly, and I might not be remembering correctly, that's a similar kind of anxiety you had when you were working. So it's what's there all the time, you know, faith, your faith in what you can do and what's gonna come through for you. And you just have to keep telling yourself that it's gonna come through, you just do the work, and the spirit has given you a great evidence. You know what I mean? Hey, Bernita, you did the work, here's evidence, right? So you need to look at your anxiety and go, do I really need to be this anxious and worried and scared, you know? I mean, the marathon runners, have you ever run a marathon? I've almost run a marathon, or have you ever, you haven't, you have? Yes, you haven't. No, I have not. Okay, so just say you've run a marathon, hurrah, you crossed the finish line, you know? You had a good time, you know? You're gonna run another one. Just do some self-care, but be aware that your anxiety about whether or not a workout is high when you're working and when you're not working, you know? And see if you can sort of talk to yourself about that, you know, it's not a bad thing, it's just a thing that I've just realized, because I remember when you were working on these articles, you know, right? So not a bad thing, just an observation, something to look at, which is great. It's great when we see things that we can look at in our process, not in ourselves, but in our writing process. I'm not talking about like you when talking about your writing process, right? Okay, something to look at and go, okay, okay, okay, Vrenita, what do I need to do to bolster my confidence? You know? What things do I need to do to feel good about me? Because that's where the writing's gonna come from, that's where the next project will come from. What's gonna be joyful? You know, did you, did you, did you, I mean, I mean, retail therapy's a real thing. Did you somehow award yourself in some way, reward yourself in some way, in some way? Did you? Not really, I think I just really kind of kept my nose to the grindstone. Yeah, well that, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm gonna cut you off. Nose to the grindstone, you know? I mean, do something, buy yourself some flowers. You know, it didn't have to be like, I went to Gucci and bought out the store, you know, sometimes I'm talking about, yeah, right, I'm talking, you know, buy yourself some flowers, take yourself out to lunch with a good friend, eat something, or let your friend take you out to lunch, or something, something, I mean, you know, a bubble bath would go to a spa for a treatment or whatever people do, and every, we all have our things that we enjoy, right? So you might not like flowers. Buy yourself a house plant, you know, that could be cool because there it is, a growing thing in celebration of, that's why they have the Olympians stand on those pedestals and they go, they hang that metal on their neck in front of millions of people. It's a way of saying, good job. You need a good job after you do all that work. Yeah. Right? Okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay. And the last thing I'll say is I love that you said about self-care because that's one of my platforms for this America's hot sauce brand that self-care is the revolution. Well, you gotta practice it. You gotta practice what you preach, sis. Thank you. Okay. It is, it is. Okay, all right, I got it. Great. Let's celebrate it, how I celebrate it. Yes, celebrate yourself. Okay, good job. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Renita. All right, I'm gonna say, Cess, is that you, you're next. Thanks, Cess. All right, hello. Hello. It's nice to be here. I'm tuning in from Vancouver. Hey. To the Mesquim Square, I'm a slave of this nation's land. Could you speak a little, can you speak, can you raise your voice a little bit? Yeah, yes, I'm actually at the library but people just need to hear me. Can you hear me okay now? Yes, I can hear you okay now. Okay, great. So I have been watching your interviews on YouTube and there's this one thing that you said to, I think it was Charlie Rose. It was like, you know, like something arrives and like inspiration arrives and I don't question it. I don't, you know, I don't like thinking, I think you said it in terms of like, you know, in terms of like critical thinking about that inspiration, but I just give it, give that a space and like follow that. I have a hard time doing that because I tend to just go like, is this meaningful? Is this gonna help? Or is this gonna like be beneficial? And so I have been just like, that realization made me realize how much there's a blockage in my creative practice. Like, and how much it actually released that stress, just like seeing you speak about that, just such an ease. Just like, you're just like, yeah, yeah, like I don't even think about that. And I feel like I have missed so many opportunities. Like I got into my dream school and because of fear, I was like, no, I can't do it. And so like, it's a big thing. And but I'm going to break the leg of that theme. And do it next year, hopefully. But just wanted to ask you, can you expand on that a little bit more? And how do you follow that? What would you be see you doing if you were to give that space? Er, what a great question, Sess. And did you say you were going to break the leg of that demon? Is that what you said? Yes, I mean, that's- I just want to be clear because I didn't want to misunderstand you. I mean, that's, I think that's a phrase that has in my mother tongue, but I translated that in English. What is your mother tongue? It's Turkish. You've called before, you've called before. No, I haven't. You haven't called before? This is the first time. Oh, wow. There's a dude from who's Turkish who calls, he has a yellow background in back of him. I'm sorry for thinking that you were here. Yeah, sorry about that. That's amazing. So break the leg of the demon. Okay, not to go against anything in your mother tongue. So let's just look at that demon for a minute because when you, so the demon, the angel, the spirit, the devil. So there's a spirit that comes to visit you and they give you gifts and they offer you things and you say no, right? Because maybe you're trying to protect yourself. I'm guessing, I don't know. Maybe? Yeah, I think so. I think it's, I think that it is, I feel that it's essential and sexual energy. Maybe I'm blocking that. And also I am trying to avoid fear that comes with following creative life, artistic practice. And so I think I'm avoiding that step. No, I understand, I understand. Yeah, it's all about like where we feel safe, right? And what we've, you know, and I mean, because they're at any stage in your life or your career, you can feel like, wow, I'm being, you know, I'm being, I have this opportunity and I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna do it for all kinds of reasons because we're in a box sometimes of our own making. Are you in a carol right now, like in the library or just in the library? I'm in the library, but I just found a chair in the hall. Okay, cool. Okay, okay, okay. Sometimes we're in a box of our own making and it's safe, you know, but the spirit says, Cess, come out of the box. And it's an act of courage to take those first steps, you know, it's tricky. I just wanna say just, I mean, you know what you need to do? You need to follow the spirit. The spirit's calling you loudly, you know? It sounds like it is anyway. It's calling you loudly. And here you are talking to me because you saw an interview I did like 20 years ago, you know, but it's, the spirit is calling you loudly and you want me to tell you to your face again, what you've already heard me say. You walk the path, you won't be alone. Just in this room, this Zoom room, you have friends who are on the path too. You're not a, you know, you won't be alone. You'll be supported. Maybe that's what's frightening. Yeah, a little bit, I think. Maybe to be loved is terrifying for who you are, terrifying. To be who you're supposed to be, terrifying. To be yourself, oh my gosh, you know? To be yourself among others who are being themselves. That's what we're doing right now. We're being ourselves, you know? So you have a choice. You can be yourself or you can be someone else, someone who will fit in in all those places that you feel comfortable right now, you know? You have a choice. And it's okay, either way is good. Either way is good, okay? And it's no fault, it's no big regret or anything if you choose, you know, you're at a fork and every day we're at a fork in the road, you know? But you did call here and to talk with me. So I'm just telling you what I told Charlie Rose. I mean, I've also been reading your work. It's not only. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Man, I know I'm just, all I'm saying is that I'm just gonna say what, you know what I'm gonna say. Oh yeah. Because I, you know, and so I'm just saying, come on, come on. Come on, you know, you got to accept it into the school, you know, would that be a step in the direction of what you really wanna do? Yeah. Come on. You're not alone. Look at us, look at all these people, right? It's great. And you can come and hang out here each time we're here every Monday, you know? And we sit here and we do this and look, you know, we get work done and we're from all over. We all look all kinds of ways. Isn't this great? You know? Yeah. So join. That's what the spirit is asking you to do, right? The spirit is saying, come on, Cess, come on. There is no demon, Cess. There's no demon, no. Okay? Yeah, thanks very much. And just keep checking in, you know what I mean? I mean, when do you have to say yes to this fabulous school of your dreams? When do you have to say yes? Oh, I declined it already. Okay, so what are you gonna do now? What are you gonna do? It's okay, maybe, hey, you know what? And maybe what are you supposed to do? Don't worry, hey, look, you're here. This is good. Hey, is it like a grad, was it like a grad school situation? It was actually, so I've done a uni in Istanbul. Okay. And it was actually under the grad here in Vancouver. It was actually a decline, but it also told me I should go, like they accepted me, but they also told me I should go for MFA. And so I'm actually, yeah, I will audition schools in New York actually. There you go. Yeah. There you go, so maybe that's what you really want. Maybe you're just saying, you know what? I really want to do something else. Yeah. Okay, but do something. You know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. And just keep checking in now that you found us. You know? Yeah, we'll do. You know, there's that song now that we found love, what are we going to do with it? Look it up on Spotify. It's a soul song. Anyway, it's kind of cool. But you know, we're your tribe, bro. So come on. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone too. We've got about five minutes left and we're going to go to Emma. Emma. Hello again. Hey, Emma. How are you doing? Good. How are you doing? I'm good. Good to see you. You too. Thank you. So I'll try to keep my like, my introductory rambling contained for the last few minutes. But I feel like I'm still kind of at the beginning of my writing journey. Like I'm still kind of green. And so a lot of my writing right now is like, and this is not like a slight to myself, but it's like a lot of it is kind of like derivative of people that I like that I'm reading. Like I'm kind of trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. And so I'm trying to get better at discerning. Like when I'm making a choice, like if it is the thing that will be best or like necessary to tell the story or if it's something that I'm just doing to like make it more interesting or because it's something that I saw that I liked. And like I can't always tell the difference. So I guess my question is like, do you have any advice for getting better at that? Or like, is that something that you've noticed in your own journey as a writer that like you've got more confident with that as you went along? Well, definitely get, I got more confident as I got along, but also different pressures come into play, you know? So confidence when you've got five years of writing under your belt is different from when you've got 10 or 15 or 20 or 40. You know what I'm saying? But just throw something down, put something down, write something, you know? Don't have your critical mind going, is that the right word? Is that the right preposition? Just throw something down. Keep going, get to the end. You know, just throw some words down, put some or do whatever, make the work and then put it aside for a little while and then pick it up again and look at it and activate your critical mind, you know? You just see what I mean? You just got to write stuff. You just got to write stuff and then you can look at it critically. Does that make sense? Cause then you're not in the middle of it going, I don't know, is this the right word at all? This could be, I don't know why I'm choosing this word that's getting a different part of your brain involved that's not really gonna help you get done. Yeah, I think that was like, I was thinking about it cause of the question at the beginning about workshopping. Like my, I went to undergrad for acting and so I have like some devising experience. And so I feel like what I'm used to is like being around people and throwing something out and then immediately getting feedback about like, that doesn't make any sense or that's a terrible idea. And then I'm like, okay, great. Now I can like, like I get a lot of external validation from that. Or just like, I just don't have a lot of practice, I guess, like listening to myself or like recognizing my own instincts. Right, and that's great, that's great. And so now you're a writer and this is one of our superpowers. So you're gonna build it. You're gonna build your superpower, you know? You see what I mean? You're just gonna work on it. It's like a muscle. I don't know, do you do yoga or something? Maybe the, I don't know if you're natural. The first time you do yoga, I see people, you know, first time you do a down dog, ah, you know, you got to work it, it's a muscle. It's listening to yourself as a muscle, you know? You just got to work it and be patient and enjoy it. You know, but really just get to the end. Just that external validation, what you turn it into is external condemnation. You know, in that question, you turn it into an external questioner. It's not giving you validation. Just don't listen to it. The one you're listening to is in here. And just get to the end of the piece. Okay. Definitely. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thanks Emma. Well, we've got about seven seconds left. Are we here next week or are we here next week? Yeah, I feel like it's number 20. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I'm looking into the distance like I'll know everything. Yes, yes, December 20th. Yes, we have, yeah, we have another Monday. Another Monday, the final class of 2021. The final class of 2021. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll look into the next year soon. Yeah, yes, we'll be back. We're here. Okay. Love you guys. Thanks for helping me. Thank you, Audrey. Thanks, Hal Brown. Thanks, Public Theater. Bye.