 So welcome everyone, it's great to see you all here. I do have a few disclaimers to start off with. So the first one is that Russell and I aren't neuroscientists. So we're career practitioners but we're really interested in this area. The second kind of comes from that first disclaimer, which is that we've only got an hour and we could talk for hours and hours and hours about this topic because we really are so interested in it. So we're going to try very hard to stick to time. We've got our colleague here in the front, Cloda, who's going to signal us if we sort of start talking too much. So she's our time wrangler. You're welcome to ask questions as we talk. If we do start to run out of time, then we might just have to park those questions but we'll just see how we go. And then the final thing is you will be sent the PowerPoint so you can relax and if you were thinking of taking notes, you won't need to. So in terms of what we're covering, so decision-making. So we'll have a brief look at decision-making and then we'll talk in particular about the importance of the prefrontal cortex, about the importance of the early years in your life and then also how this knowledge can help with career decision-making. Neuroscience is actually a really young field. So we've gone from dissecting people's brains to reading the bumps on people's heads to figure out what their personality is. Apparently, around about here is your morals. So that's where we've got veneration, benevolence, hope, spirituality. It's all this part of the brain, apparently. However, now we've got magnetic resonance imaging, so MRI. So that happened around about the 70s and 80s. So we didn't have to read bumps and we didn't have to cut up brains to actually get an idea of what was happening. The great thing about MRIs is you can get people to do a task and you can see which part of the brain is actually illuminated. So that's way better than cutting up dead ones. It tells you a lot more. However, we still actually, even now, don't fully understand the processes. So we're still learning about this. We do know that there's a number of areas in the brain involved in decision-making. But we're focused on the prefrontal cortex because it actually matured really slowly. And it's got a lot of implications for making career decisions. So that's why we're focusing particularly on that. Actually, before I start talking about decision-making, I've got a question for you. So what is the average age at which human beings are likely to make rational decisions about important events in their lives? 25? Okay, what else? Any other ages, Tim? Never? Okay, why never? I think you're just thinking about guys, actually. What were some of the other ages? 30? Okay, what else? 35. 35. This is really interesting. Because if you think about it, what age can you drive a car, drink alcohol, join the army and shoot people? It's quite scary, isn't it? What age have you tried as an adult, and yet none of you said under 20? So it has a lot of implications. The answer is it depends. It depends on so many factors. And Russell will be talking more about those factors in a little while. But in terms of decision-making, so our decisions make us who we are. So each fork in the road that we come to, we've got to make some sort of decision, and then that influences us until we get to the next fork and the next fork. So effective decision-making, it's not just, it's not possible without motivation and meaning. That's provided by our emotional input. So there are studies that they've done, so there was one particular person who he had an injury to his limbic system. He had an injury to his limbic system, which is where your emotions are seated. So you would think, I can't remember how old he was, but say 30s, you would think that that would turn him to a spock-like character that could make very precise rational decisions. No, he was paralysed by indecision. We actually need our emotions as well as our rational prefrontal cortex. We need both, and we need them to work together. So Russell will talk more about that in a little while, but essentially our prefrontal cortex takes a long time to develop, and the connections between the limbic system, where our emotions are in the prefrontal cortex, that takes a while to mature as well. So we need the rational prefrontal cortex. There's three core executive functions. So you've got impulse inhibition, working memory, and cognitive flexibility, and they're all interrelated. They seem to underpin processes such as goal-setting, planning, prioritising, sustaining and switching attention, initiating and monitoring actions. So we need those three to do those things. We need them to help us self-regulate and stop and think. And they're crucial for career decision-making. All of those things, if you think about it, you need them to make career decisions. So I've got another question for you. How old were you when you were first asked, what do you want to be when you've grown up? Four, five. Four, five. Tim? I was about five years old, and my reply is I wanted to be a wrestler. There's probably some people who are still being asked that as an adult. Yeah, absolutely. I got back for quite a while, actually. How did it make you feel when you were five years old being asked that question? Excited for the possibilities? Yeah. I actually told Tim that I was going to ask him this. He's a plant. And Zoe, what about you, Zoe? I think my mum has some video of me being asked when I was like two. And I think, obviously, I don't know about my answer then, but I remember being really confused when I asked later in life, because it was like, what are you doing? Yeah, that was me as well. I don't know how old I was when I first got the question, but I do know that I was about 14 and there was one side of the family, didn't know that well. And the aunt that I was most scared of, this woman terrified me. She actually, later on, it was okay, but I was still really scared of her. And she asked me that dreaded question surrounded by other uncles and aunts. And also, I was very shy as well. And I got that question and it was sort of like, I'm mumbled, I didn't know. What do you mean you don't know? You should know by now. Yeah, I still remember. It's the emotions, emotions associated with that memory. So at a time when we're expected to make decisions about our careers, our prefrontal cortex isn't fully mature. And as I said before, sort of like the limbic system that isn't probably connected with the prefrontal cortex. We're supposed to make these decisions at 2, 5, 10, 12, 14, 18. I'm not saying you can't make good decisions when the brain isn't fully mature. Of course you can. But it's more difficult. And I think that leads on to... Yeah. Thank you very much. You're very welcome. Okay, so what I'm going to do is I'm just going to do you a little bit of science behind the brain. And like Pada says, I'm really, really interested in this. This came about probably about two years ago. So working in careers. And I just had this underlying feeling that in the careers industry we're actually not serving our clients well. Usually young people. I thought that we just didn't understand what was going on. So I did quite a lot of research to try and find out who actually knows about the brain. Sure, you find it in academia and you find people who are neuroscientists. But it's really hard to find somebody who talks openly about how the brain functions. So I came across a guy called Nathan Wallace. Okay, now some of you may have come across Nathan because he does an awful lot of talks, especially in early childhood centres, schools, and he talks about young people. You'll find him on Catherine Ryan 9 to noon. He does a lot of parenting stuff. So Nathan and I have done workshops. I've sat down and talked to Nathan and I've asked him so many questions. He was a neuroscience educator and does an awful lot of work on there. So if you ever get the chance to go and see him, Nathan Wallace, go. He's really, really interesting. But some of the things that he's started talking about is the brain. So I think one of the things you've got to be really careful about is these terms that they use, like adolescents, you actually can't define what adolescence is with neuroscientists. It seems to change. So this has come from MIT, not our friends down the road, Manukau, okay, the other one that's somewhere in the States. So, you know, this is sort of like puberty to 18 is the sense of adolescence. What they know through those FMRI, MRI scans is that the brain goes through a huge change, okay? Large growth and pruning. Pruning of the nerves that are inside the brain, okay? And I'll talk a little bit more about that. And it generally is from the back to the front. So as Peta says, the bit that the free frontal cortex sits behind your forehead, okay? This is the last part of the brain that usually matures. It's engaged and it is, but when you, and I'm talking to the parents here, excuse me, but if you've got adolescence, teenagers, usually you know when they're in that stage because they're incredibly emotional, all right? There is no self-restraint of those kind of things. So up to about 18, and again about 18, you know, there is this change going on. There's a new term that's come out which is called emerging adulthood, okay? So it's the bit between adolescence and adulthood. Generally 18 to 22 or probably 25. Now, as Peta says, when are you an adult? When is the brain mature? The problem is that there is no blue spot in the brain that turns blue when you're mature. It depends. It just happens. And it's really interesting. You could talk to, and we do, talking to 18, 19-year-olds, they're totally different to if you talk to post grads. They're totally different to mature students in their 30s, because you can see the change in the brain. So what happens is that prefrontal cortex starts to develop, okay? The executive functions, as they call them, start to come on. Planning. Planning ahead. Evaluating risks and rewards. Interestingly, neuroscience at the moment is focusing on a lot of the deficits that are happening in society. So there's an awful lot of research around things like mental health, suicide, the effect of drugs and drink on young people. If you ever try and find something about neuroscience and career decision making, there is nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's like the careers industry is stuck in the dark ages somewhere. So I have to tell you, this talk that you're getting now, you will not get anywhere else in New Zealand. All right? And in fact, you probably won't get it anywhere else if you value it around the world. I have done so much research trying to find people and it's just dark space. Okay? So those evaluating risks and rewards, that's why young people make silly mistakes. Nigel Latter talks about this an awful lot. You know, if you've got a young son, all right? If you want to increase the dangers of them having a car accident, put their best mate in the seat next to them. If you want to increase it again, put their two mates in the back. And usually the kind of things that you hear is, why did you do that? I don't know. It's a natural reaction because the frontal cortex, which is about reasoning, is not really online. They're still in the limbic brain. So problem-solving, thinking ahead, self-evaluation. The two things that are happening, myelination is about insulation. It's about making the nerves and the connections happen quicker. So some of the things that they're doing and the research is that young people, when they solve problems, they can solve them as fast as adults, but in some ways they're not using the same parts of the brain. Different parts of the brain light up. So what does that mean? Well, probably what's happening is the brain is trying to figure out where those easy connections are, which are most efficient and most effective. Can I just sort of say here and now that teenagers of today are no different over past? We were exactly the same. If you were my age, you know, early 30s. I only say that because I want to know you're listening. And synaptic pruning. That's the pruning the nerves. The ones that are used and the ones that are not used. This is the whole thing like when you say you're hardwired when you're set in stone. Interestingly, those beliefs and ideas that you have of yourself can be changed. There's a lot of work going on in the states that people who believe that they haven't got a hope and there's no point if you actually put them through certain programs they do change the way they think. The brain is plastic. It does mould. So when you said does it ever end? No. There's some evidence say in 60, 70 years of age that it's still happening. So there is quite a lot of stuff going on. But as you can see it's from 18 onwards where some of the executive functions are starting to come into play. So our question and my question to start off with was at 18 when you leave school how on earth do you make a good decision? How on earth do we expect you? And the fact is at 18 when you leave school, how long has that been around? Forever. So shouldn't we be moving with the times? Later adulthood mid-twenties or older full maturity of the brain and the executive functions. Okay? Now interestingly again if you talk to Nathan he will say there's an awful lot of research in terms of how quickly does this work? How quickly do you come to a free frontal cortex? When do you hear it? I hear it because often I get students who come in and they start talking in a very logical, coherent way. And I will actually say to them I'm going to ask you a really strange question what are you first born? Yes. So Nathan's idea and the research seems to suggest this is that the first 1000 days are incredibly important for the development of the brain not in terms of how it develops but when it develops. Have you seen the adverts on the TV? The first 1000 days? That's come from Nathan. Alright? You're hearing an awful lot saying about it. So it's the first 1000 days which is from conception to at nine months and then afterwards. The most important thing is the dyadic relationship. The usual thing is it's the most dominant parent usually mum and it's the talk. If you think about it first born quite often it's this. What happens then is if you have another child usually you've got a two year old running around and you're taught to your second one and you're going oh it's so cute what are you doing? So that sort of interrupts it and the evidence and the research suggests that what that possibly does is it delays the development of the prefrontal cortex. Now if you've got two, three, four children you think about what your first one's like to what your fourth one is like. Other evidence that it can be cited the most underrepresented population in New Zealand prisons is first born female. Puberty has an impact on this naturally puberty happens in women earlier then it does for guys. First born females most underrepresented population in New Zealand prisons on that basis which do you think are the most overrepresented? Third born, fourth born male. Why? Because at 16, 17, 18 they make stupid decisions. What were you thinking? Don't know, just did it because he said. All right. It is also in context so if you have a first born or a second born or a third born again statistically the first born in the family is the most successful money, job, career those kind of things but there are exceptions always exceptions so it depends on things here's a case say for example you've got a girl born but what happens is they're born to a soul parent okay now it's not a bad thing but that could be a step to this way which is okay it's going to delay frontal cortex mum also suffers from mental health mum is quite isolated with no family so you see with the context things can start to develop where it is going to affect the development of the brain now they know this one of the classics is the whole thing around Romanian adoptions the ones that are in the nurseries, no contact whatsoever, the amount of delay in terms of brain development around that but at the same time if you've got mum who's a soul parent speaks two languages which indicates possibly about being bilingual has some impact on brain development is surrounded by family has really good support has actually got an academic education up to master's level so you see that context is really quite important so you have to sort of say here's the brain and here's the development but you have to take things into context as well which makes it incredibly difficult especially when we sit in front of a student who comes in and goes so I'm doing this major what can I do with it so the main changes that we see up puberty to 18 again if you're a mum and dad you'll see this young people you will notice this but you get better abstract thinking seeing patterns and understanding things like fairness they start to understand how the world starts to operate still a bit limited with right and wrong I've got a 19 year old daughter you were wrong to do that no one you shouldn't have said this I said that because of what you did and what you said ok so straight away I'm like I know she's in a limbic brain I know she's in a limbic brain and me trying to rationalise and reason with her I might as well forget it so I just sort of take a step back that's a point for parents actually realise where they're in the frontal cortex so interestingly with my daughter after I heard this with Nathan two years ago of course she's in year 12 and I just sort of said to her look I actually think that when I try and talk to you you're in your limbic brain can I just say if you ever want to hear young people in their limbic brain alright get on a bus in front of two or three young people and all you'll hear is every third word is like it's so cool that's them in their limbic brain alright if you ever want to talk to a young person when they're in the limbic brain you're wasting your time so I realised this with my daughter and I thought I've got to pick the time when she's probably going to come into her frontal cortex because they do naturally so I said to her is it first thing in the morning I don't think so when you wake up to it no ok she's gorgeous my daughter by the way when you come home from school I don't think that because you're tired you still can find out what your friends are doing yeah probably I said but have you ever noticed you know about half six seven o'clock at night you just come wandering out alright dad how's it going ah it's going good now's my opportunity now it changes with everybody but I know that if I want to talk to my daughter I have to listen whether she's in my limbic brain parents if you're actually talking to a young person and you've got a great conversation their brother and sister walks in the door you've got no chance because all of a sudden limbic brain and limbic brain trumps frontal cortex alright so if you ever want to hear it sit next to a group of young people at a cafe on a bus listen to them talk oh look look limbic brain trying to get any reasoning out of them forget it so up to eighteen intense emotions and thrill seeking there's a guy called Lon Steinberg he's a psychologist and he talks a lot about this as well and he says really with the limbic brain it's like an accelerator on a car it's flat to the floor the frontal cortex of the brakes that's about regulation should you do this no again Nigel Latter talks about a great story you can have a really great conversation with young people young guys and then all of a sudden their mate will meet them outside the door hey why don't we get in my car go down the road and see how fast we can go and then afterwards you go why'd you do that and they go that's them not being able to apply the brakes that's the frontal cortex that's a good indicator so when I get young people in sat in front of me and they're talking very coherently about so I'm going to do this and that and I'm already thinking ahead and everything how old are you 19 are you first born yes again Nathan talks about he did a survey in Christchurch there were 100 gifted kids 50 boys 50 girls he did say to me he says the girls were certainly gifted some of the boys weren't he says I think they were making up the numbers but after a while he just sort of decided he just turned around and he went random question how many of you are first born out of 100 how many do you think put the hand up 90 so you know even at that age you know there's a lot to be said for this so we've got to start to understand this and that the context and the implications are really important between 18 and 2225 you start to see more complex thinking they put together abstract ideas values a sense of self actually this is really important this sense of self who am I where is my place in the world what is important to me what do I think about if you think about it they're very abstract ideas and if you have not got your frontal cortex coming online very often they are sort of like so I'm really oh look girl food this will happen it's a bit of distraction trying to hold those ideas are really hard for young people so abstract ideas like what do you want to do when you finish they appreciate diverse views yeah I can see what you see you know put themselves in other people's shoes they actually get better at doing that better emotional self control they apply the breaks but the last point is really important it's very new it's not going to be done all the time it takes time and it takes practice unfortunately parents you've got to have patience okay really encouraging those kind of things alright mid 20s and older that's when you see it so like I say when PhD students come in and they're usually in their late 20s early 30s conversations I have about who they think they are are far more different to a young person at 1920 totally different when their frontal cortex is definitely engaged they're able to think of things abstract ideas talk about what they think about alright and actually I've just done had a lot more experience which is really important all good cool yeah yes yes look I think I think sometimes if you really want to just get onto YouTube alright and you know stupid people and you will see it you know it's like the limbic brain is always there and again that probably comes again from family upbringing and there are some people who are in the frontal cortex but they don't make great decisions and get very emotional you know people who fly off the handle all the time okay what's going on because that's the limbic brain so in that sense then if you're thinking like you know YouTube and stupid people would things like alcohol and other sort of things actually take you from being in your frontal cortex family to the limbic system yeah because what happens is your frontal cortex is going yeah I'll have a glass of wine you have your glass of wine and all of a sudden your limbic brain takes over and you go I'm going to have the bottle and then next day your frontal cortex comes up online and it goes what the hell what was I thinking I don't know you know this, no matter how old you are you've been out and then next day you've gone the hell was I thinking what did I do usually that is not like me because all of a sudden that common sense logical person that you are just goes out the window that's only the influence which is why they're interested in the effect of drugs and drink on young people and how that most young people the cause of death is accidents them doing things that are created in accidents it's the biggest cause of death for young people them not doing things where you go why did you do that there was another question yeah I was just wondering let's say you get to the point where you are fully developed and you can logic and reason do you ever get to that point is it normal for say a PhD student to be good with the abstract ideas then waver yeah I would say so you're never going to be not in your limbic brain there are going to be times in your limbic brain is when your best friend that you haven't seen for 20 years suddenly appears and you start talking and you get really excited you see it in young people best time of your life is 18 when you get flooded with all these chemicals dopamine usually when you start laughing because your friends laughing and you go what are we laughing at I don't know but as an adult you will get to that stage with some people so you will flit in and out of your what seems to be said is that as an adult you can keep in your frontal cortex for longer to young people that's why we are boring you know we are incredibly boring to young people because we are in our frontal cortex and we are so logical that's why you can stand at the breakfast bar and you can make breakfast for everyone you can make the lunches you can think about what you are going to do afterwards do your shopping and you are trying to say to someone who is 17 have you got your bag they wander into the room and then they come out and they haven't got the bag didn't you go and get your bag oh forgot so we stay in our frontal cortex but quite happily we can go backwards and forwards so the frontal cortex is about exercising control over your limbic brain to suppress it and keep it under control a little bit some people are really boring hi I've heard that social media information overload makes people stupid because it makes us think too much like not process things properly okay so no actually the research around neuroscience is very conflicted so if you want to prove something you can prove something so the whole thing around social media if you think about who's actually saying that it's usually adults who probably don't understand social media and they see the impact of people in their phones doing this all the time when I was a kid I was told off all the time for watching television my parents were told off for playing with a hoop and a stick you know it was that long ago so we're always being told not to do something because that's the fad but there is very little evidence around that is very conclusive to say what impacts social media computers TV, violent games it's very inconclusive we have to be really careful that the whole thing around neuroscience you've got to be so careful because you can actually make it say what you want it to say so things like those people who say this will help your children develop do you see the story a few weeks ago about the place in Australia that had that claim and they were bringing it into New Zealand and they were saying put them in this school or this program and they will be more intelligent you can't claim that there are some educational and other people that are not true neuroscientists will go we haven't got enough research we've only been doing this 10 or 15 years we haven't got a longitudinal study to say what's true and what's not so we can only infer and then think that may be but we're not sure okay it's a bit like advice we get about diets one minute wine is bad for you the next minute red wine is great dark chocolate is good so at the moment there's still discovering all of this, still learning I'd like to think jogging is really bad for you which leads me into mindfulness is a superpower so there's lots of things we can do to aid our brain improve our decision making so obvious things such as exercise sorry nutrition so diet rice is two squares of dark chocolate a night are good the whole block not so good so there's things like that there's also planning so we need to be able to plan but how many of us are taught how to plan it's not usually something that's taught when you get to university you might learn about short term and long term planning but it would be nice if you could actually learn about those things earlier time management, how many of us are taught about time management so those sorts of things will actually help but I want to talk a bit about mindfulness because it actually studies have shown that it does actually change the brain so what is mindfulness it's a superpower you'll see part of this that the driver is in the limbic brain you may have heard this word mindfulness it's become something of a buzz phrase of late one simple serviceable definition which is this mindfulness is the ability to know what's happening in your head at any given moment without getting carried away by it imagine how useful this could be just as an example driving down the road and suddenly cuts you off in traffic how do you normally react I think most of us we normally react by having a thought which is I'm pissed and then what happens next you immediately habitually reflexively inhabit that thought and actually become pissed there's no buffer between the stimulus and your reaction with just a little bit of mindfulness in that same situation you might notice my chest is buzzing my ears are turning red I'm having a starburst of self-righteous thoughts I'm getting angry but you don't necessarily have to act on it and chase that person down the road screaming at them with your kids in the back of the car thinking you've gone nuts now you might be thinking are you angry sometimes aren't I justified I would say yes but probably not as much as you think the proposition here is not that you should be rendered by mindfulness into some lifeless non-judgmental blob the proposition is that you should learn how to respond wisely to things that happen to you rather than just reacting blindly and that my friends is a superpower how do you get it the way to get it is through meditation I believe that meditation and mindfulness are the next big public health revolution in the 1940s if you told somebody you were going running they would have said who's chasing you but then what happened next the scientists swooped in they showed that physical exercise is really good for you and now all of us do it and if we don't we feel guilty about it and that's where I think we're headed with mindfulness and meditation like brushing your teeth eating well and taking the meds your doctor prescribed for you let me just close by saying mindfulness is not going to solve all of your problems it's not going to render your life a non-stop parade of unicorns and rainbows nonetheless this is a superpower and one that is accessible by you immediately so that's mindfulness at the University of Auckland website so if you just go on to Auckland.ac.nz there's that DVD and there's other videos as well or equally funny and cute but also really on point and there's other information on there about the importance of nutrition and exercise and everything else so why did I focus on mindfulness it's because brain imaging shows that it does actually physically change your brain in a good way so basically it makes changes in areas relating to all of those types of thinking so complex thinking, decision-making introspection the emotion regulation etc so what apparently happens is that you develop a thicker layer of neurons in your prefrontal cortex and that's a good thing and also other areas of the brain which I won't go into a 2013 study showed that 15 minutes of mindful meditation you've got to do this regularly so it's not enough to do 10 minutes every week or so but if you do it regularly so 15 minutes of mindful meditation can help people make smarter choices studies have shown that mindfulness helps to lead to better decision-making a brief period of mindfulness allows you to make more rational decisions because you actually consider the information available in the present moment so you can do what Russell was saying is difficult for younger people people with a less fully mature prefrontal cortex and that's think about the future think about positive future outcomes so just that little moment of pause and you can also do something called the neuro-economic cost of a decision so mindfulness and I think Russell is now going to put it all together alright okay, I'll go onto your seat do you want any questions any more questions good you're still with us excellent okay, so one of the things that I think is you've got to hang on to this idea of neuroscience and what Petter was just talking about with mindfulness is that what they call metacognition think it about what you're thinking about actually it's really okay to stare our fin to the distance and lose yourself and that's sort of that kind of thing it's don't feel guilty about it I think what you've got to be really careful about is there are some people who are going to do that and like I said in some context they're going to have really quite negative thoughts that's really quite dangerous that leads to depression so there's a lot of interest around the whole thing around mental health and depression and how that happens I was just reading the study that's done at Victoria University it's just come out and they've sort of talked to young people and you can get them to think in a more positive way when I feel happy I have been it can change that so it's about thinking about what you think about I'll take for granted that most of us are positive people so that's it now, putting it all together in terms of the career decision making I think we've got this wrong badly wrong okay so when students come in and talk to me they go I've got this degree B.Com I've got two majors what can I do with that I know that the worst question you can ever ask a young person at university and at school if you've got teenagers and they're at university or at school don't ever ask them when you finish school or finish uni what are you going to do every young person guys the statement is you know what you're doing and most young people go no clue so we always start with what do you want to do wrong question where you should start is the other end now you'll see this if any of you've been online recently you'll see a guy called Simon Sinek and he talks about the golden circles I think he stole my idea honest, I really do think this I've applied this more to career decision making so he talks about the golden circles what is what most consumers or businesses actually focus on we should focus on why why not why are you doing this degree but the whole why why do you want to do it it's about purpose big questions like if you could change one thing in the world overnight what would it be what concerns you what issues do you get really upset about now if you think about it young people don't get asked that in fact they don't get asked at school they don't get asked at uni and I'm going to say here what are we teaching them because I think we do need to teach them and as parents you've got to ask your kids this what concerns you because if they understand what purpose is they then understand the next bit which is the how this is their degree if they understand what the purpose is then they make sense as regards what they're studying so I say to them what are you studying a b-com I'm doing this okay that's great I can't answer that question at the end we'll come to that but I need to go back I need to talk to you about what is your purpose what are the things that are important to you because if we start to uncover that then what happens is that line there means that this starts to link more closely it's a really hard concept so if you go back to the neuroscience the frontal cortex it's an abstract thought young people are usually developing a sense of purpose there was a study done by a guy called Bill Damon big study in the States 20% of young people he found have a sense of purpose there are others about 40% 45% that are developing a sense of purpose they call them dabblers and dreamers worryingly the rest have no sense of purpose and have given up I don't know what it is in New Zealand but I wouldn't say that we're too far away from that kind of statistic so one of the things we need to do is change our focus to purpose talk to young people about what concerns them we have to say that these young people today probably because of parenting and it's been more liberal and I'm talking about my parents my parents the way they parented me is not the way I parented my daughter I'm far more about what I want to talk about what do you want to talk about come and talk to me so you find that young people today when they say I want to work for somebody who's got morals and values and things I believe in they've actually leaked frog dust in our 30s and 40s in fact we get to our 40s midlife crisis all of a sudden you've been putting up with things for so long you get to midlife kids have left home and suddenly you go I don't need to put up with this anymore I don't need to pay I don't need to earn this wage I could do whatever I like that's midlife crisis young people are starting that earlier in their 20s you can hear it in the way they talk they are no different to us it's just the context the most important thing as well is not only the neuroscience behind it but this is informed by experience again if you think about 18 year olds what experience have they got they've been to school they've played some sport they've maybe had a part time job they've lived in a family they might have been lucky in being overseas what else have they done it gives you a better sense of this is what I like this is not what I like I believe in this and it's really important because that sense of purpose develops because you look back on your life and you see the continuity and the coherence I remember as a kid when I was 5, 6, 7 some things that I've only just started to think about I have a strong sense of what's right and wrong and justice and I could talk to you about them that I went that's not fair and I got punished for things at school by my mum and dad and I went that's not fair so I've got a real deep level sense of trying to help people who can't help themselves because I don't believe that some people are in that situation because of themselves the society, the system, whatever so through my work I started off as a school teacher the kids I really liked bottom set 8 they've a statement they've got teacher aids there were more teacher aids in the class than kids love them, why? because it's my sense of justice I've had long contracts with work and income helping people who can't help themselves people who are vulnerable that is my purpose everything I do is served by that purpose it makes sense therefore that anything I do in terms of learning skills and knowledge and whatever work I do, my career title is always going to be that so what and where I work allows me to effect change it allows me to put into play what I think is important to me my purpose the further away you are from that line you call it a job get a bit closer it's a career, when you sit on that line you feel it's a calling you would do it for no money there are some people who would work for Greenpeace and they believe in Greenpeace but all they do is a job why? because they are far enough away they're probably doing administration stuff whereas what they really want to do is they want to do more activist stuff they want to get involved bureaucracies are really good at pushing people out into jobs so if you feel bored in your job you've got to sort of think to yourself what's my purpose and how far away from the line am I what job stands for just over broke the other thing is for young people if they're in their limbic brain for 90% of the time it's really hard for them with their frontal cortex to make sense of that information so the only way I come at it with them is it's about your emotion I explain this to young people and they get it and they're so relieved and they go home to their parents hopefully and they tell them I even offer to go with them yep it's about feelings if what you're doing as a degree feels right that's okay you can't articulate because that's your frontal cortex if you can't articulate it but you feel it's right that's okay if you feel it's wrong that's a problem that line there that's disjointed and the other thing is when you sit in your limbic brain that's why you get so excited how do you feel are you everybody nice that guys when you get asked how do you feel oh no you're in your limbic brain if you're in your limbic brain it's hard to have language and describe frontal cortex does that so that's what happens experience is really important so purpose and passion this is really important this is stuff we should talk to young people about what is purpose it's a generalized intention to accomplish something that is meaningful to the self remember the work I do means something to me it makes sense to me but the other side of it is that I'm doing it for the betterment of the world inherently everybody if you think about work work is about being of service to someone else we do lots of things for other people so if you're doing something and it doesn't have to be paid work that makes sense to you and you're doing it for someone else that is purpose it's not passion I'm really passionate about sailing my boat that's not for someone else that's for yourself but if you sail your boat and you take people who wouldn't normally do that disadvantaged kids old folk that's more purposeful to understand the difference going to the beach every week love that that's about doing something for yourself going to the beach every week and cleaning stuff up that's purposeful young people are developing a sense of that where does it come from some young people have trauma early in life 8, 9, 10 the brain changes about 8, 9, 10 you see the world in a different way classic story about the old Pete's Dragon to an 8, 9, 10 year old and they burst into tears where's the dragon gone 5 and 6 year old whatever so the change in the brain at 5 or 6 is that you start to see the world in a different way your autobiographical memories things that you start to remember have you ever realised why do you remember some things and not others why is it that you remember some things really important things things that affect you because that is where your purpose is coming from things like that so some young people and I talk to them again where does this come from people who do health doctors when I was about 9 young lady when I was about 9 I remember being in an award with my grandmother who was in a lot of pain for 2 or 3 days and the nurses really struggled to look after her so what did you do so I made a commitment that I was going to become a nurse where do you think she works and who does she work with old people when I talked to her and I said so that's why you work with old people because of the experience you had with your grandmother how do I know that she's on the right track because she cried she got really upset and tearful couldn't explain it just felt overwhelmed with emotion that's a calling you talk to young people who have had trauma trauma in their life sexual abuse, domestic abuse cancer, accidents those kind of things anybody you see who's old in the news usually if they're doing something that's different they don't ever ask the question do you remember something that happened when you were younger that's the question you need to ask for others it develops and it could develop through things like what they're interested in interest is a really interesting area too because we don't know much about the psychology of interest why do you get interested in some things you ever tried to do something on your own usually it's because you have to do things around people people who are really good with their hands and make and do things especially a guy usually there was an uncle or a grandfather or somebody who showed them how to do it interest need to be triggered again and again and again and again it never happens once so it's been sometimes it happens later in life sometimes it happens and sometimes it happens when you don't even know it's happening so if you think about a young person that is really hard for them what are you interested in I don't know and they've got competing interests and when you've got competing interests and your frontal cortex is sort of coming in and out of play it's really hard to settle and say I know what my purpose is but as you get older you become more purposeful and actually as you get older you become more resilient so we've got to stop saying about young people they've got no backbone they're not like me no, as you get older you get more resilient people in their 60s and 70s are more resilient than 30s and 40s and then 20s and 30s there is proof on that purposeful people need to be surrounded by purposeful people you talk to young people is there somebody in your family who is purposeful, who is encouraging if they're doing business I can guarantee most times they've got somebody in their family who is a business person they come home, they listen to the stories that their parents or whoever that person is who tells them they start to admire them they like what they hear this is what I want to do and how in there they've got to find a sense of why am I doing business how am I going to make a difference and who am I going to make a difference with once they start to think like that great, I met a young lady her father was involved in the clothing industry what does she want to do she would love to open her own chain of shops for women and I said why because I've worked in shops and when women come in and get the right clothes how they feel is fantastic so do you want to learn how to run businesses that are successful for people like that absolutely that makes sense to me because I want to help those poor people there is some rubbish out there and they feel terrible I want to help women dress better that made sense to her she's doing it for other people that's her purpose it's not for me to judge what do you look for in purpose if you're talking to young people you've actually got to look for continuity and coherence and understanding you've got to try and see if there are patterns and this is really really hard if you're an parent or if you're interested in this talk to them about early childhood memories why do they remember some things you know, 17, 18, 19 year olds I remember, I remember I remember so why do they remember those and not the other things what is it about some of those things ask them what concerns them in the world if they had a choice if they could change one thing in the world what would you do most of them would maybe stumble and I'm not sure that to me is an indication that yeah they're still not quite there but let's encourage it who are the purposeful people who are the people who surround them that are purposeful what do they talk about role models in particular role model is the public personification of who you want others to see you as your role models that's how I want others to look at me that's who your role models are so you think about the people that you admire and think of role models that's how you want others to look at you asking young people that is quite interesting they haven't quite got it yet but they're starting to develop it so if you think rather than getting some kind of articulated answer you've probably just got to say to them what feels right if you're doing a law degree does it feel right yeah okay don't ask them what they're going to do with it because they haven't got there yet but if it feels right they're on the way if there's hesitation then sometimes it's somebody else's suggestion that's always a problem career what games did you like playing it's quite interesting people who played risk chess that's actually them being very strategic it's quite clear people who do creative games you know they're going to be creative in some way but there is a lot of theory and careers around asking people what games they like playing what are the books and films and TV shows they read and watch because it links to purpose if you've got a teenager what do they keep watching hopefully it's not my kids and rules and married at first sight but there might be something in that that could be entertainment but there are some things they watch because it's uncovering some kind of purpose you've just got to be aware of those things what are they good at you will invest time, energy and resources in things that you are good at and interests and you are developing your skills but again that's the middle bit that's how you're going to implement your purpose what do you spend a lot of time doing and practising what feels right in terms of a career just very quickly my daughter I told her do not at 18 go straight off to tertiary study I said you know this has got to be an investment not a cost and I'm sorry to say but I think a lot of students and parents will turn around and go they haven't quite figured it out yet but we're hoping in the next couple of years they'll get there that's an expensive experiment if you ask me I'm not saying don't go off to university or polytechnic I'm just saying is 18 the right time I'm not so sure if there's some young people especially if they're second third fourth born but I asked my daughter she wants to get in the music industry and she wants to put events on where did that come from when she was three she started dancing my little girl but she loved the end of year show the entertainment factor for the parents she's always enjoyed it then she started playing the piano and was very good at it really good actually but through that she's sort of come to the sense that she wants to put music events on because when she goes to music events it's how it makes her feel and she wants others to feel that at a music event the fact that you lose sense of time and you could do anything you want and you feel great I'm miked up like this I wish I'd been to Robbie Williams last night because I know Robbie would have made me feel like that so that makes sense to her neuroscience says the brain takes much longer to mature than we first thought the brain is not mature at 18 at 12 it's probably the size of an adult brain but the changes that go through could go through to mid 20s early 30s could be later there is no consensus on this they're starting to get some clearer idea so we have to take that into account when we come back to things like career decision making it's got implications on the executive functions planning, thinking ahead thinking about what you're thinking about and a young person's ability to make sense their sense of identity who am I it's a very abstract thought and trying to put that together is really hard ask them what they're good at and compliment if they are I say to my daughter I love the way that you talk to people people come up to you and go hey Laura how are you and she goes oh really well thanks how are you I love that so she engages in a conversation talk to them about the things that they're good at an old boss of mine used to say too many people focus too much on the whole and not enough on the doughnut you know we're always being told what we're not good at but what are we good at listen carefully that is important there's a lot of research around that if you do not listen and look away and are distracted that has a real adverse effect on anybody but especially young people they get a sense that you're not interested and you don't care you might like to ask young people I did this with my daughter as your dad what should I do more of as your dad what should I do less of what she said was what you should do more of is give me more money and what you should do less of is stop saying no but interestingly someone will say stop being on your phone spend more time with me that's really important to young people and talk to them about this stuff in that sense of that sort of sense of purpose there are a group of people and a lot of people who unfortunately have to go to work to survive that is a real interest of mine obviously because of that whole thing around justice if financial pressures get in the way you can forget about purpose it becomes something we're going I've got time for that I've got to go to work, I've got to earn money it's about safety, security people and some people when they're caught in that they never get a practical sense of developing purpose except that what might happen is their purpose is they go to work to put stuff on the table for their family that's a purpose that's okay but financial pressures so for young people and this is what happens they get to the end of their degree if they don't think about purpose and enact it they suddenly get into a job and before they know it they've been in it three years and it's got nothing to do with their degree and they feel lost so it's not those at 18 that we ought to worry about it's those at 22, 23 who leave university and then drift they're the ones that I really worry about because they get into the financial pressures of rent possibly a mortgage, family then that's it 20 years before you come back to that and committing to a stable sense of identity looking back who am I this is who I am it's a really hard thing to do but if you talk to them about that this is what I think you're good at have you, I've noticed when what do you think about really good time to talk especially to young people, boys take them for a drive because then you're not sat like this you're sat like this and I find I love going on road trips with my daughter because she just talks and you get to hear so much and I can ask her stuff and she just gets on so you know, pick your time as you guys when you talk to them and what you talk to them about and be encouraging so for your most young people I think this is a great analogy that I come to when they say I've got this degree what I can't tell them is which lane they're in but as long as they're on the right highway and they're sort of in that arena that's okay they may change lanes the work I do now as a careers advisor is very similar to what I did as a schoolteacher which is very similar to me helping people find work I can see a connection there I've just changed lanes a few times when people say you know, change careers do you know that? you'll change careers seven times in your life it's absolute rubbish there is no research there is nothing to say where that came from it's an urban myth you may change jobs but I would say that most of you if you change jobs you'll stay on the same highway and underneath it will be the same underlying purpose and what you're hoping to do is when the job you move to becomes more in line with the purpose you want to follow so if we can help young people understand that then we've got a much better chance of getting them into purposeful work okay, thank you