 Good morning, once again, thanks for joining us on the breakfast. Our next conversation is moving to a community called Idumeje where Prince Ned Waco has been accused of land grabbing and of course also causing or asking for the arrest of certain indigens of the community. It's a conversation that is mixed with so many angles here and there. This morning we're speaking with an indigene of the Idumeje community, Uche, Aligbe. Good morning, thank you for joining us. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you. I hope you're hearing me. Yes, we are. Welcome once again. And we also have a spokesman to Ned Waco, Adeni Ifetayo. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. Yeah. Good morning. Thanks for having me. Great to have you. I'm going to start with Mr. Aligbe. To give us just a summary of where all the chaos or crisis is coming from, the allegations and the accusations, land grabbing to build a university, arresting some of the indigens of the community who of course had opposed this idea. Give us a summary of what all of this is about. Thank you very much. Let me start by corrective that impression. It is opposed to an idea of development. We are opposed to the process of seizing people's land for whatever projects that it is. That is the problem. We have a process. We have a procedure. We have a way of considering indigens for land free of charge for development purposes. And whenever you come with a project and these processes followed, the procedure taken and you are granted access to the land, you have no problem. But when you choose to breach the process, you begin to have problem. I think that is the situation we are into currently. All right, so Mr. Aligbe, so in your community, what's the process of, you know, procuring land for whatever project? And how has Mr. Ndunwoku breached those protocols? First of all, the process, the community, after some land costs with a neighboring community, carved out an area we call development area where we can allocate land to individuals who come in for development. And how we do it is this, we have a land allocation committee set there by the village. Whatever you want to do, you make your application to this land allocation committee which interviews you, discusses whatever it is with you, reaches out to the natural ruler of the place who now gets what we call the Izuwane, the town hall meeting into the place and the land allocation committee will sell the idea to the Izuwane and everybody participates in the discussion and the decision is reached at that point in time whether to give or not to give. If the decision is to give, the OB, who is the chairman of that Izuwane, will be there to have known what decision Izuwane has taken. He takes the original application of the applicant and signs approval on it and the allocation committee now goes to town to allocate land. Where it is virgin land and nothing has happened before, they invite the group we call the Onotu, which is headed by the ASA, to come and please map out the place. When the place is mapped out, it is delivered to whoever has applied and has got his application approved. Where the land has already been mapped out, the committee will just go and give you an allocation paper specifying the landmarks of where you are given. After that you are home and dry. The condition then is this. You have told us you are going to use the plot of land for this purpose. You have a given period of time, usually it's been three years, within which to develop this. If you don't do it, the land reverts to the community, which is saying, you have no ownership until you have developed the project. Okay. So that's the procedure. Okay. So how has Mr. Netonwoko breached this procedure? How has it been breached? Yes. Yes. Suddenly we saw bulldozers on the 28th of March 2015, 28th of March. Some bulldozers came into a portion of land and started bulldozing. By 4th April 2015, a group of farmers came to the union meeting to protest that Netonwoko is bulldozing their land, aided by armed men in police uniform and other talks. The union sent a message asking that Netonwoko should please stop bulldozing farmer's land and called on the community to look into this. It was after all this. We now saw a letter, two letters of application written by Linus International signed by Netonwoko who is the chief executive on that letter asking for 90 hectares of land to add on to 33 hectares of land. For a golf course on the 16th, it was dated 8th of March. There was a second one dated 23rd of March from the same source, now asking for land two kilometers by one kilometer along a specific area where he called a wuhimi. That is the boundary town with our town asking for that for a university. We saw those letters. I'm talking about after a bulldozing has started and the second letter was dated 23rd of March, the bulldozing started 28th of March, five days interval. And so people were saying, what is going on? Before we knew it, somewhere June or July, June, a paper showed up, a location letter from the OB of the town. The OB of the town does not give a location letter. He signs your application on top of it and approvals and then you get a paper from the committee. That was a major letter which had all sorts of faults in it, which we will discuss later on. And when we asked, where is this coming from? Let's bring in a spokesman to Nenwoko, Deni Fetayo. Are you hearing me? Yes, we can hear you. Hold on. We want to bring a speech. Are you hearing me? Yes, we can. Mr. Fetayo, can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you clearly. Okay. So hold on, Mr. Aligbe, let's hear from Mr. Adini. Mr. Adini, go on. There's been these accusations about not going through the right process to get land for development in the community. What's your response to all of this? Thank you for this opportunity. A lot of lies have been spread in the public space out there. First and foremost, my principal is a law abiding citizen and is an international lawyer who wouldn't do anything in fact for you to get the penny, you must go through the right process. He applied for the land in March 2015 and being in Kansu, the land allocation committee, they started to look at what he intends to do with the land and there was a letter, you know, granting the permission that you can have the land now, build a university. And part of the request that my principal table before being in Kansu was that after completing the university and the international golf course, 40%. 40% stake belongs to the community. It's time to be corrected. No rich man, we build a kind of massive project and seeded 40% to the community. And when they look at the nature of the project that he wants to do and you'll be gladly, gladly approve the land, whether the extra 90% of land or the one for the university or for the golf course. But all this land grabbing is just to cardio the public. But if you listen... It was not until 2015. Yeah, if you listen to Mr. Aligbe, if you were listening to Mr. Aligbe, he said the OB does not approve land or doesn't approve approaches of land or given of land in the community. They have to go through a process. So did he go through that process before getting approved for the land? Yes, yes, yes. It was stated in this letter, it was stated in this letter that having considered the land allocation committee, your intention, what it intends to do, and it's even inside the MOU that was signed by the both parties. They all had lawyer, the community had lawyer, Linus International, which is owned by Prince Nendingoko, also has his own lawyer. It was signed. Just like he rightly said that if you need a land, you approve the allocation land committee. I want to build a school, I want to build a filling station. They will look at the advantages and all of that. And my principal is all about developing Dumoje. It's all about putting Dumoje in the global community. There's no place in the world that you have a university or international golf course that will not be known. There will be hospitality. Okay. Let's leave Dumoje. Mr. Iffatayo. Mr. Iffatayo. Even if you are giving back 40% to the community, Obina appended the signature and said a memo random of understanding should be drafted, which was signed by all the major chiefs. And they will be ascending that yes, you can have this land and comment the project. And there's also one condition. He said if I did not develop this project within five years, nothing was done. The community has right to revoke the land. We have pictured the university project is about 80% completed. Okay. Who are the people working there? They are all Dumoje. But the role of this issue is about kingship. Not about land grabbing. Okay. Mr. Iffatayo. I want you to hold on. I've been taken to court or arrested. Okay. We'll get to the arrests case. But I want us to go back to what Mr. Aliwe earlier mentioned. He said, yes, indeed, you know, the land allocation committee received letters from, you know, Ned Unwoko. But. No, no, no. The land allocation committee, let's get back to that. Okay. We saw that letter. And I'm sorry to pop in. Okay. If you look at the letter of allocation, which they are counting, the letter says, the above request by Soso Soso was passed to me by the elders council, not the allocation committee. Okay. So what is the elders council coming into this? All right, hold on. Hold on, Mr. Aliwe. So Iffatayo, I want to get back to you. So would you say that it is false when Mr. Aliwe mentioned that Ned Unwoko brought soldiers, you know, armed men and bulldozers to begin to clear people's farmland without prior authorization? Would you say that's a false accusation? That was a blanker lie. That was a blanker lie. After he got the allocation and there has to be commencement of work on the said land and people moving, he paid compensation. He has paid over 200 million Naira. So who? I know my principal, he will not release money without anybody appending their signatures to it. Who did Ned Unwoko pay money to? Pardon? Who did Ned Unwoko pay money to? Is it the owners of the land? The people would, yes. Not even look, don't get it. It's a community land. People farm on it. It does not belong to one family. So who was paid? So who was paid? The 200 million you spoke about. Who are the people that got paid? No, individually. Family who said this one acre belongs to me. I farm on it. These are my crop. Another family who said this six plot is mine. This where I farm and all of that. But since they have spoken to us in community land and everything has been documented. If you need that, I can send you all. They have all been paid just as instructed in the MOU. Quickly, does your letter say, does your letter say the approval was given by the land allocation committee or by the council of chiefs? Is it the other council of chiefs? The other council. So not the land allocation committee. So the issue here. Hold on. The land allocation committee, we report back to the new being council. The other council. We report back. This is what this man said he wants to do. We have gone to check. He can get this land. And I think in our own proposition, we can give him to start whatever project he intends to do. So based on that, based on that, every organization has a board of trustees. Whatever decision the company wants to make at the end of the year, they free the board of trustees. And I say, okay, we'll give you approval. Okay, let's go ahead with what you said. They approve it. I have the copy of letter with me. All right. Mr. Effetah, please hold on. Mr. Ligbe, I want to bring you in here. I've heard from you and I've heard from you from Ned and Woko Spokesman. So I think the issue here, correct me if I'm wrong. He mentioned that they approach the eldest council. They approach DOB. But Mr. Ligbe, are you saying the main issue here is that Mr. Ned and Woko bypassed the land allocation committee to go straight to DOB and that that's the main issue? Is that it? No, no. The main issue is that the letter that I taught him is not a letter that came from the community or DOB. Let me point out one or two things. I have just said that DOB said he got a letter from Elders Council, which is not true. You were sent a copy of this letter. I beg you, if you look at the first page, there's a signature there. The date of the letter itself is 10 April. There is a signature on the front page, which has a date of 2 June 2015. There is a signature on the first page, 22 June 2015. Signature on the second page has a date of 31 May 2015. First inconsistency. Let's go back. That letter in itself. Yes, check it. That letter in itself. If you go to, I think it's the one bit of it says they will prepare an MOU here and there. An MOU was signed by Ned Moko himself after all the others had signed on the 31st of May, which is the same day that this letter was signed. That's the second. I have it. You have it. Check it. So that we know what we are saying. So that is the second, second bit. The third bit we are talking about is where he proposed to be built in his university. How did he get there? First of all, he applied in that second letter for a land for university along the Wohimi boundary. How come he came to where he is and he started Buddhism People's Land, Buddhism Community Land, and said he is building a university. Those are the questions that you need to ask. When we get to the MOU, I will show you the exact equity that he put in the MOU, which is counting as 40%. If you want, I will read it to you now so that you understand exactly what I am talking about. He says on the MOU, first of all, he has told us in one that Linus International is going to invest an estimated billions of Naira. That's it. Now he goes to the community equity. He says the land invested shall be valued at inception after adequate documentation and the total value shall constitute the community's equity shareholding in the golf course project, which parties to the MOU shall agree at the roundtable discussion. I haven't seen any 40% anywhere in this MOU. If you don't have a copy, ask them to send you. It has been shown on Aspiris that it is the wrong way. So quickly, Ms. Efatayo, Ms. Alikbe has said that the signing of documents have some inconsistencies. They didn't go through the right process and it doesn't even seem like they really did come from the right origin. So would you quickly respond to that and you mentioned 40%, how come the 40% is missing from the MOU? Okay, thank you very much. First and foremost, when they are talking about consistency, it's just from their imagination. This is one of the things they brought before the police and it was well investigated. In fact, I'm sure if we want to get to see you, this land we are talking about, the CEO had been given since 2015 and the former chairman, Luka Gome, said before he can give out a CEO, he went to prepare a report. I have the report with me as well. He met with the OB. Did you actually say that we should approve this land for this or so cost and which demand in his report because police invited him and asked him to prepare his own report. I have a copy with me. So every process was duly followed and the land was approved and the CEO post was gotten by my principal since 2015. So when they are saying they're buying consistency in the signature, I don't know where they got that from. But based on what we have, based on what the OB approved, it is rightly gotten and my principal went through the whole process and the project started in 2015. I'm just saying there's no issue of land grabbing here. Okay, so Mr. Aifetayo. Because the King Koso that they are using because the one we wanted to be and not be, my principal said, no, I can't support you for reason best known to me. And he now said I will make sure whatever project you want to do will be trotted, I will revoke the land. Mr. Aifetayo, I want you to explain what you just mentioned. This is what King Chip told you you just mentioned. What exactly do you mean? Okay, all right. In 2017, my principal told Prince Noso he said, I can never support you to become King because I don't want to use the language for reason best known to me for inconsistency on this and that. And the man said that everybody can build university but not you. I will revoke the land and he told the chiefs then because the OB was late he told the chief that whoever that is supporting that will not support me on this project will be banished from the community and to make sure you know, he followed through his word he contacted the then president of the Umojo Community Development Umojo Community Development Umojo Community Development they brought in boys, dogs they went to those chiefs house some of them are still alive they are living with nest beat them, drag them, burn some of their property burn houses, drag them to the palace in the presence of Prince Noso being supervised by Umojo Holders, Pamela's father and those people they are still alive and when they call my principal as the man who believe in the rule of law they all knew each other they live in the same community he told them don't let her lead go and make a report so it was since 2017 that was when the crisis started we tell what these things have been peaceful it's not all about land grabbing okay, you are saying this is not an issue of land grab, this is an issue between Prince Ndewoku and the other Prince wow, okay so since we are seeing a different perspective to this conflict from you, I want you to address Miss Aliqbe now I want to bring you in, I want you to address the allegations of arrest and Ndewoku has been going to arrest people owners of different lands because he wants to actually use their lands for his own personal product Miss Aliqbe, can you confirm that? I will get, no farmer has been arrested no Miss Aliqbe, hold on I will get there but please, this is a diversion from the main point diversion is from land grabbing which we have followed they have what they call customary right of occupancy issued in 2016 with a survey plan of 2017 what level of fraud is this? let's not get into that but let's get back to issue of arrest oh, people were beaten people were, how did they get beaten? because as supporting development, we had a meeting and we said to Ned we support a university project but you must approach land acquisition properly the union said so and all of us were there we supported that project but not the way it was going on land, let's leave that alone what happened is that the meeting after the OB OB Nansungwoku after burying his father who died 6th February and he was installed 7th February according to our customs he did the burial of his father and then on the 19th of May after all the burial he called the meeting to say thank you to those who helped him that meeting was disrupted by thugs old men beaten sent away and everything destroyed the police came that day who did that? the OB was complaining say it again who sent in thugs? we know we know all the people who have been working for Ned they were the people who came in and to destroy the meeting there were a few people who we couldn't identify those who were there, I wasn't in the town then so I can tell you exactly what it is those who were there saw people who were not part of the town but they saw mainly those who have been vanguarding for Ned they came and destroyed everything and sucked the old men on the 19th the police came after that and the natural ruler complained and they said you should have called us you have come to take permission the natural ruler said you don't take permission for a town hall meeting for police protection, tell us and the natural ruler now wrote to the police we are holding this meeting this is go with the market on the 23rd please come and give us the protection on that day police came in their vehicle drove around the town and was no longer visible whether they were laying ambush on whether they were hiding nobody could tell anything as soon as the meeting convened larger number of these dogs came in on the 23rd and wrecked havoc in the place some of the animals that were remnants of the barrier which the OBEs have wanted to give away to were shot and killed we have pictures of those and the rounds of ammunition on that day what happened in the place was there any arrest by policemen as we've seen online the policemen arrested nobody like I said to you maybe they were in ambush maybe they were hiding somewhere maybe they were not even available and I was listening to I was listening to somebody you have the tape also who said that there was mayhem somebody was killed and so on how did somebody get killed if anybody was killed at all what brought the mayhem was it because they were struggling for OBE or what land even just to say thank you to the people this place was invaded and people were humiliated old men had even their heads broken the drinks they brought for them the people who came in drunk some broke the bottles all over the place the pictures are there the police did not arrest even though they were invited to come and protect the place no arrest, nothing they went away let's talk about the person who is correctly in custody yes I'm coming to it okay let me get to the girl's father this girl's father lives is the president general of our union he lives in Asaba Asaba is about 25 kilometers I think from my village he was not even there okay and when there is mayhem anywhere any part of the town the first information goes to the president general of the town that's it but let me tell you what happens okay is going through what is going because of two reports he wrote about the police and about net the first was just about the police there was some heavy crime in the town a woman was abducted missing we didn't know it was reported to the police nothing happened the man suspected to have abducted that person was sending threats until one December something happened the same house where the woman was abducted four people including two children were killed in cold blood the house set ablaze the police it was reported to the police and up till this moment nothing on that that is one so he had to write and complain the second is that 2016 when the letter our former hobby was alive when the letter for allocation was being touted around he will be himself wrote first of all to Ned he wrote it on the 26th of May Ned received and signed for it on the 29th of May 2015 telling him I did not allocate land to you don't stay on the 33 he was written he signed for it they should be able to give you the copy I'm talking of 29th of May don't forget that I said that he did his MOU on the 31st of May after receiving that letter I said you are not entitled to this I don't know if you don't have it I can have time to send out to you even if it doesn't want to so that's it now one water wrote to the police purporting that it was who was then just a crown prince that forged the obese signature on that letter and the police came it was investigated by one DCP and I can give you the report Mr. Alibe please hold on from the forensic studies no forgery was established however the crown prince will have used his influence to get his father to sign that letter Mr. Alibe can you hold on just to quickly wrap up let's bring in Mr. Alibe's reactions Mr. Alibe can you hear me okay I want you to just give a final response to that okay first and foremost there was never an OB it went to be passed on because somebody wanted to impose himself all this one he was talking about that the disrupt and he did not make any complaints to the police and he he asserted the prime minister of the community because like the second in command to the king the man was dragged to the palace Mr. Alibe because of time because we need to wrap up we'll continue this conversation tomorrow but because of time I want you to quickly address the person who is currently under arrest the persons who are currently in police custody Mr. Alibe has stated that even in the community when these incidents took place so why has he been held I wouldn't know that means he has the police my principal there was no name where he petitioned the police or to anybody let them bring out a copy Ned is Ned a victim no complainant no witness so they are just classhasing mentioning his name or giving a gay script that if you want your father to arrest Ned Ned does not have and he needs whatsoever we are out of time thank you for speaking with us we will continue this conversation tomorrow there's so much that we need to unwrap and we hope that we can bring out some truth here and get some understanding Mr. Alibe thank you also for your time this morning I truly appreciate it thank you for speaking with us we will bring you back again tomorrow thank you very much we will take a break here and continue our conversation with a focus on women in politics stay with us