 Alright, hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante from wikibond.org and I'm here with John Furrier and Rebecca Thompson of Avere, which is a very interesting start up. We met you guys almost a year and a half ago, two years ago, and I noticed you had a big announcement, get nice and close so the audience can get these microphones, shield out all the background noise, and you've been doing some really interesting things and really dramatically different innovation around tiering, which is sort of what we first heard, and Ron gave us this incredible presentation, looking, it was struck me, he looked back on history and said, look at what densities have done and look at what a performance has done, this is a huge problem, you guys have incredible secret sauce about matching the right data and the device characteristics, but now you've extended that pretty substantially, and you've essentially got, the way David Florida described it to me, is Avere's got what NetApp should have, that's how we described it, and I said wow, that's kind of cool, I get it, because I saw your announcement and I said okay, it's got this and this is the price and I said alright, what am I getting, so why don't you talk a little bit about, let's start for those who don't know Avere, tell us about the company, sort of the innovations that you have, where you're at and we'll have at it. Okay great, so Avere was founded, first of all we're based in, we're a little unusual in that we're based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and not many high tech companies there, but there happens to be a large contingent of people with file systems expertise coming out of Carnegie Mellon, and so the co-founders of Avere have a long history in file system development and data storage, and the, most of the founding team had been the founding team of Spinnaker Networks, which was a clustered file system, one of the very first clustered file systems out there that was acquired by NetApp. So they all hung around NetApp for a few years, and once they, I think, feel like they had met their obligation to NetApp, came up with an idea to say what other storage problems are there out there that aren't being solved, and one of the things they came upon was the fact that people were using spindles to improve performance, and while disk drives were getting denser and denser and denser, they weren't getting faster, and so it was taking, so the more data you have stored, the longer the seek times, and so on and so forth, and people were doing crazy things to get performance, so they were short-stroking and going to larger and larger filers in order to serve up that I.O., and they said this is just madness. Just throwing hardware at the problem. Yeah, just throwing hardware at the problem. They said this is madness, there's got to be a better way, and particularly when you think about now, with all the sort of new or solid state storage media on the market, how can you take advantage of that? So, and disks do do some things really well. If you want sequential access to data, they do it really well and really efficiently and very inexpensively, but Flash does some things in solid state, both RAM as well as Flash does other things very well, so that's when they came up with the idea of wouldn't it be great if we could come up with some algorithms that would allow us to tier data, to take things like how frequently is it accessed, what type of file is it, how are people reading it, is it random or sequential, and go ahead and on the fly, in real time, put that on the right storage media. And in essence, what Avir does, what our appliances do, is they offload the I.O. from those filers. So no longer are you relying on your NADAP or your ISLON to do the work of serving up the I.O. to clients, our performance nodes are doing that. And so now, you don't have to do the crazy things in the back end that you were before. You don't have to short stroke drives. You don't have to keep adding shelves of energy consuming fiber channel. You can just put our nodes in, which have a very small footprint, much less expensive, and the intelligence in our system is going to put the data in the right place. And we're promoting and demoting back and forth from that back end storage. So you're basically taking all these choke points, all these bottlenecks, and then bringing them in and managing them more intelligently so that they don't have to be managed with a system that's really not designed to manage them? That's right, because essentially these large storage servers, large filers, had been created to do both things, to serve both masters. They were trying to scale performance and trying to scale capacity. And they were serving neither master well. And so by having performance nodes between the client and those filers and just really taking care of serving up I.O., now you've offloaded those so you can get a longer lifespan out of what you've already invested in. And there's some great data management functionality on those devices, things like your backup routines and snapshots and all those sorts of things, which is great. So now they can do their job well. We do the job of serving up. And we do the job of serving up I.O. really well. So the use case is front-ending, some smaller filers. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, or even front-ending, we front-end smaller filers. Larger filers. Even front-end larger filers, depends on the application. But what we tell people is we'll sit in front. And then instead of going out and buying new fiber channel drives for that filer, put SATA drives in there. Make those drives in there. Put as much capacity as you want. Make it really dense dedupe. But even if you put dedupe on there if you want, because we're going to take care of serving up access as it's the client. So that was sort of the initial benefit promise to the customer who went out there. But now it's a year and a half later. And we've done some interesting enhancements to the software that bring even more benefit. So like what? So with our 2.0 announcement, we just announced last month the 2.0 version of our operating system, which runs across all of the appliances, with the ability to create a global namespace. So what happened was customers said to us, hey, Avira, you're in a perfect spot. You're sitting between us and those back-end filers. But you know what? We've got multiple vendors back there. I've got NADAP. I've got ISLON. I've got some SUN stuff. And it's hard to manage. It's painful. And I have to manage each one of these things separately. And when I move data around, it causes problems on the clients have to reboot. We take downtime. And it would be nice if I could manage this all as sort of a logical storage pool. And so we've given them the ability to do that. We confront up to 24 various filers from a multitude of different vendors, both in the data center, as well as things people have in remote locations over the wide area, and create one logical namespace for them. They don't give up their physical view, either. That's always there. So our system and so the administrator always knows where things actually are, but they can go ahead and group things together. So how do you guys quantify value for your clients and prospects? I mean, you're not buying capacity in your system, but by putting in the Avere system, you have capacity and utilization impacts. I can use higher capacity drive. So let's talk a little bit about the ROI for you. Because when you read the press release, you say, OK, I got a three terabytes. It cost me $70,000. I was like, oh, wait a minute. But people shouldn't think of it that way, shouldn't they? They've got to look at the whole system, and the global namespace has an impact on there. So talk a little bit about, I mean, do you get that from clients? Talk about how you walk them through the ROI so that their CFO doesn't go, what? I can get that from EMC for way less. Right, right. Well, we talked to them about, so for example, by offloading the performance requirements from those filers and filling them full of SATA drives, it's a tremendous reduction in the footprint. So what would take you five times the amount of disks now takes one time? So think about the colo space, your rack space, the power. And that's a savings you get immediately when you put us in place. But then long term, as you're scaling out, as you're scaling out the infrastructure going forward, you're no longer having to buy the highest and highest performance filer. You know, you're buying some kind of mid-range thing, because you're not really looking at it for its performance. You're looking at it for its capacity. Now, your early customers, I presume, get this right away. And they're not having to go through some hardcore justification, or maybe they are. I'm sort of interested in that. But as you widen out and expand your marketplace, you're probably going to have to. But talk about some of the early successes. Can you name some customers? Sure, sure. We have a couple of customers that I can talk about. One of the interesting ones is Sony ImageWorks. So Sony ImageWorks, they're a media entertainment company based and headquartered in Culver City, California. And they originally came to us, and their primary application is video rendering. And so of course, they're very concerned about performance and also very concerned about cost. They want to be able to do video renders and do them fast, but have some reasonable cost metric for them. So they came to us and said, we'd like to try out a couple of your nodes and see if you can help us improve the speed of our rendering. So we did that. We sent them a couple of nodes. And they're like, wow, this stuff really works. Then they said, you know what, Avira? We have a group of remote animators located in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And they had neat access to the same files that are on our filers here in Culver City. But that latency over that, it's a private link, but the latency, the round trips are so bad that the animators get so frustrated that they're actually taking and downloading stuff and putting it on flash drives. These are movies that aren't yet out in the public market running around on flash drives. So there's a lot of concern about that. So what Sony did is they said, hey Avira, can we take a couple of your nodes and send them out to Albuquerque? You can hold all of that active data, serve that up locally, and then write it back on some sort of delayed fashion to the filer in Culver City. And that's what happened. And it was phenomenal. I mean, the users out there were like, oh my gosh, they were finally first class citizens. They thought that what Sony had done was have bought them their own storage server and put it out there. When in actuality it was a veer. So listen, I have to run to this panel. So maybe you can keep talking to Rebecca. It's Ron's here as well. And Ron is here? Oh, Ron is super alpha geek. He can take you through a bunch of interesting stuff and get his opinion on some other things that he's seen at the show. But Avir Systems was a Wikibon CTO award finalist. David Floyer awarded that. Really interesting startup. So I got to run. Rebecca, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. We'll see you around. Okay, good to see you again. Great, thank you. Actually, Ron, just waiting for him over here. All right, we're ready to go. Oh, Ron the CEO, award winner, that's great. Of the CTO, is he a CTO? He's a CEO. CEO, okay. What did he win? The Wikibon CTO, the CTO award. Yeah, he could be a CTO. He's, oh yeah, there he is. Okay, so while we're waiting. He's got to get a mint. Okay, Ron the CEO of Avir. Avir. Avir. What did Stu call it? Avirian. He's challenged. And Ron, I already talked about Sony. Oh, I talked about Sony. Okay, good. Ron, John Furrier, founder of SiliconANGLE. Nice to meet you. This is all theCUBE, guys, my product. Dave had to step away for a panel. No problem. Apparently you won an award for Wikibon. You did. Oh yes, sorry. Yes, sorry. Congratulations, you said you're AlphaGeek. Yes. That's what Dave says, which means you're technical. Great. Ricky, would you go with the cameras? How are we doing? Good, okay. Rebecca and I, well, Dave, we're talking. I was just listening. I'm talking about the startup. And are you technically a startup? Or are you a more growing company? Because startup means different things. Are you guys early stage startup? Series A, B, you funded? So we're a startup. We're funded, we've done a series A and a series B. Okay, good. And so we're well funded, but we're still small. We're in the order of 15 employees and life is just exciting. It's all about customer acquisition. Everyone still acts as a team. It's the fun part of what being in a startup is. Cool. So I love startups as well. That's all I do since 97, but startups are excited. And this goodness show here has a lot of startups. And we've talked to four dependent companies. A lot of growth in the storage area. Even David Scott from HP just did a fly by and talked about his view in the market. He just gave a talk up there about how explosive the growth is in this new environment. Talking about remote workers in Albuquerque working on some stuff. And it's just gonna get more and more clustered, if you will, around users touching the network. Customers, employees, consumers. There's gonna be more and more Facebook-like applications out there. And so the conversation we've been having about is what's the impact of the startup community? And you guys look like an innovation there. So it's exciting. Question for you, who's backing you? Which VCs? Any Silicon Valley VCs? Are they... Silicon Valley. So our Series A was co-led by Menlo Ventures and Northwest Venture Partners. And our Series B was led by Tenaya Capital. Tenaya Capital. Who from Northwest was on the... Northwest is Matt Howard. Matt Howard, okay. And Menlo is John Jarvie. And Tenaya is Brian Paul. All right. Brian Paul is actually based in Boston, but Tenaya is based in California. Yeah, no Menlo. And they're not the, those aren't the hyped up first, but they're very steady, solid, solid good people at those firms. Very strong funds. So the... And obviously, Northwest got billions, and you know, I know those guys well. So the short answer though about those guys is Menlo and Northwest co-led my A-round at Spinnaker. And so they, it was my same board members, actually at Spinnaker Networks. We're putting the band back together. We're putting the band back together. John Belushi said, right? You know, I had such a good time working with those guys and absolutely pillars in the community and really understood the startup environment. It was a great experience for us. Well, Dave and I were just talking with Steve Kenison from IBM, who's a startup guy too, who sold his last company into the store-wise to IBM. And we're talking about, you know, he was asking, because I live in Silicon Valley, and we're talking about, you know, what's entrepreneurial path? I'm like, because we're talking about NetApp. And I'm like, you know, if you've been with a VC, you've done business with them and they've made money, you've made money for them. Pretty much will give you a good look over, if not put the same team in place. So that's pretty much how it's done. So congratulations, plus, if you know them, it's about the partnership, right? You want board members that are going to be value add, not value subtract. So Spinnaker was a great outcome in the end, right? Selling to network appliance for over 300 million. Big deal. But it wasn't always smooth. There were definitely ups and downs. And we kind of restructured the company. What year did they sell that? And holy cow, I got to get the year right. So it was about eight years ago. Oh, three we sold? Okay, so post bubble. That's right. So the stock actually was lower. Right. So they had that huge plummet. That's right. They had 130 something, right? That's right. And they were hit heavily by the bubble. But I mean, what I loved about Menlo and Northwest, particularly John and Matt, is that they were with us at Spinnaker. And we had definitely some moments where we had to change the company, retarget ourselves, retool, change the product. And it wasn't always roses at the board meeting, but I knew how those guys acted under pressure. I knew how they acted with us. A lot of times VCs will cave under pressure. That's right. And I love these guys. They're perfect. I loved working with them. And I was eager to work with them. Who are the partners again? Get them on the record here. John Jarvie at Menlo Ventures and Matt Howard at Northwest. Great testimonial. You don't always hear great stories about VCs. A lot of them are really poor, but there are good VCs. As I write about in my blog post, people know I'm pretty anti-VC if you don't know them or like them. But I'm pro-VC. If you get a good VC, they have money. They're institutional investors. And that's a great example of a success story. And then there are good firms in there, but a lot of bad firms. And the best testimony a gift for them is we only presented to them for Series A. We worked with them in the past. Why would you go anywhere else? Exactly. It's a known quantity. So let's talk about your company now. So start up. It's exciting. You're changing the game. X NetApp. So you guys kind of bolt out of NetApp. You did your time. NetApp's doing great. They're a growing company. I kind of give them some hell here and there, calling them a niche storage vendor. NetApp and niche, great. What are we? Start up. I was kind of goofing on NetApp last night. You guys are a niche player. I hate that. It's like compared to EMC. So, but they're not. They're a big company. They're doing well financially. Great, great CEO. Great company. Absolutely. Entrepreneurial DNA in there. And even as a big company, it's entrepreneurial, which is one of their hallmarks. But you guys are true entrepreneurs. So you're targeting this market. What is the big sweet spot for you? The big mega trend. Rebecca was talking a little bit about how the tech works. But what's the big trend that's driving your product and value proposition? Right, so NAS servers today are one monolithic server. And that one monolithic thing has to do everything and has to point towards the clients and provide the client experience. And it has to do all the data management. And what we decided when we started to veer was it really is two separate functions, providing the scalable performance, providing the client-facing side of NAS, is very different from doing the data management. And honestly, network appliance has one of the best data management stacks of any vendor. So we love NetApp. We love what they do on the data management side. But what we decided to do was come up with an architecture that let us work with them, let us work with any NAS vendor, yet provide the scalable client-facing side of NAS. So as the data explosion hits, and storage is changing, we were talking about that earlier about the changing face of storage industry, you guys are really introducing a new kind of element to address the performance versus capacity issue. Which is, you know, one big God box does it all, horsepower, you know, tweaked up. I mean, that's an Isilon-like solution, right? So, and when you have the trends are more like a Hadoop, where people are looking at, you know, scaling out in a different way on structured data. So you have a diversity issue. So, talk about that dynamic in particular, and because that's something that a lot of people don't unpack, you know. I just want a solution. Is it performance capacity? Doesn't matter. When is a God box, big fat box worth it? And when is it? Is it worth it? Honestly, the places where we do the best is people come to us and say, I have a problem that I need high performance on this application. Or if I have a problem that I need to deal with multiple sites remote, and there's high latency to where my data center is, these are the client facing side questions that we'd like to solve. You know, where the data is managed, where it's stored, the density, you know, what the cost per gig is for the ultimate storage, is something that we don't want to deal with. And so we enable, we think we enable a lot of this new style of use of storage to distributed collaboration, right? Being able to have that. Plus your startup, you're like, I don't want to build that product. It's too expensive. Right. It's been done before. It's a lot of cost. What's interesting is, I mean, storage is sort of a laggard in going towards the distributed model. Every other type of technology has gone from monolithic God box type things, right? You know, one massive processor, you know, one massive server to distributed architecture. But you're right. I mean, I think you're exactly right. They are lagging. But that's here now, right? I mean, we're seeing, you know, the Hadoop movement, for example, with cloud era and these folks on the open source side to, you know, EMC with Isilon trying to get back in that big data with, you know, and HP buying Vertica. So you're seeing analytics is a very important real time information. So you're just seeing kind of a changing paradigm. And I just don't see a lot of proof points around the uptake of this distributed storage. So I'm trying to flesh out, you know, that's the use case. That's the killer use case. Is there a killer use case? So it's interesting on the data management side, I'm not, I don't know what the right architecture is on the data management side. And honestly, the one large box which does all the data management is a great model because you can coordinate snapshots. You can guarantee consistency across all directories, across all files. And so I think the people in the managing piece need to really focus on that. On ours, the killer app very clearly is scalable performance. I need to run Oracle. I need to run VMware. And I need to just let that usage performance scale as I add employees, I add users. And we allow that. It just scales linearly. So, and you do with multi-vendor. That's right. I mean, that's the number one message we're hearing is and not that people are anti-Oracle. We've been critical of Oracle because we're more like a watchdog agency on Oracle because, you know, they tend to try to land grab and lock people in. But people are clearly voting with their pocketbook by saying, hey, Oracle, we'll run you, but you're running an app and you're running on our core business. But we got to do other stuff. Right. So does that, is that what you're saying that you guys can fit into that? Yeah, so industry standard protocols, I think that's the most important thing. So we do NFS and SIFs to the clients. So any app that can run on NFS and SIFs, we can speed up, we can enhance the performance, we can run distributively. And when we talk to the management boxes, again, industry standard protocols, it's NFS. If you give us an NFS mount point from any device, we can make sure the data lands there eventually for you to do your management on. Okay, so what are you guys at in terms of uptake with the product? So you've got some funding. What was the amounts? Series A and B total. Series A was 15 million. Series B was 17. So VCs love to write those big checks because Norma's got billions to get rid of. And so you guys look like a good bet. So you've got your funded and you have customers. So you have clients. Is it growth good on the cash flow side and client uptake good? It's doing well. We've got lots of customers in several different verticals now. I think our early verticals would mean entertainment, oil and gas, genomics. The normal suspects. Big data. But the exciting thing to me is when I look across the customer base, we're growing outside of that very quickly. Standard enterprise apps, all the databases. VMware is really a huge one. Virtualization probably just, you love virtualization, don't you? Yes, we do. We do. I mean that's changing the storage industry all by itself. There's lots of cost savings in a virtualized model of deploying apps. Virtualized deployment is wonderful. You need that logical control because you're running rich logical machines. That's right. What comes along with that though is a very high infrastructure cost. There's lots of IO. There's lots of processing to run those virtualized environments. And we can provide the IO piece of it. And it really makes, it takes virtualization to a much higher performance level than what you get before. We're just talking about one of our customers that has actually moved everything from raw metal to virtualization and actually got a performance increase when they did it because we put a lot of the accesses in solid state instead of going to spindles. And we're just talking about the solid state and just the footprint costs alone are compelling. That's right. I mean just there. So let's talk about the company. Okay, so you have a roadmap. You're in the market. You have this new positioning. Are the things that surprise you? I mean you guys come from Spinnaker. So you know, everyone has their own DNA. You kind of have your normal habits. You're in storage, you're in Pittsburgh, which is cool, you're currently in Mellon. You know, kind of blue collar, you know, get it done, rock and roll. Disc is dirty business, a storage business. You know, I'm a Patriots fan. So I am CFO. But you know, storage is nuts and bolts. I mean, it's hard core tech, right? So there's some science involved around software and you've got physical media to deal with. What surprised you from the time of inception as you see the opportunity, where you are now, what's the biggest surprise, if any, like that you've had from the market? Great, so when we started the company, we identified three targets. It was scalable performance, efficiency, doing more with less. So moving to SATA, lower cost spindles and get the same performance. And the third is WAN, cloud, doing things remotely. The thing that really surprised me is our last release, the global namespace release. We had an up-sweller customers. Once they saw the architecture, there was client machines, there was R systems, and then there was the mass server. Once they said, I don't know, you guys are in the middle, you could help me. I've got all this NAS Clutter. I've got like eight filers. So they're cleaning house. They're clean vendors. They're cleaning house. That's right, they're using us to virtualize that and to make it look like one filer again. And so we got overwhelming requests for that, which forced us, we changed our road map. We produced our 2O release just two weeks ago to help solve this Clutter problem. Clean up. So let's talk about that, because that to me is what's the phenomena of an entrepreneurship startup model. You're in the market. You're doing business. And some entrepreneurs make the mistake of kind of either not saying too academic and not going and getting into the market. This is a case where you guys have a market position. You have some tech. You're talking to customers and you're in the middle and a good thing just happens. The world spins on your doorstep. Is that kind of what you're saying happened here? It's like you were in the middle. You recognize it. Someone probably didn't want off and say, hey, let's do this and said, hey, wow. Everyone likes this. Yeah, we had not really thought, I mean, in terms of our road map, we had other things on there. We had not really thought of it until customers was like, it wasn't just one. It was, you know, one after another, after another. So walk me through the decision. I mean, you're the CEO. People have wacky ideas all the time. Hey, Ron, we got to be doing this. You know, an engineer. I got to have product guys doing the sales. Guys are demanding this. You know, when do you go, how do you get this done? How do you go, wow, that makes sense. Not a lot of cost. So take us through that thought process. So, Rebecca's probably the biggest driver here on gathering information and statistics and input and making everything very methodical. So we clearly have a CRM. We track all of our customer requests and it allows us to view in some very simple dashboards exactly what people want and what they're waiting for. You're right. There's always one-off customers that's going to want everything. And if you listen to all the noise, you're just going to listen to whoever's the loudest. And that's not the important way to go. The important way to go is to gather, figure out where the bulk of your customers want you to go. And then you've got to add a little bit of art, though, too, in terms of what's going on in the market, the broader market. That's the part that's a little scarier. Yeah, because you've got to make, it's a risk management decision. It's like you pivot to this direction. It's resources. It's risky, right? So you've got to figure out, will it work? And so the always the fear is, let's say you have 100 customers and they want this one thing, but what if those customers are very unique and that's it? You know, they are unique and no other customers are like them. So we have some other checks to make sure that, you know. But global namespace wasn't upswell. It was a lot of our customer base, a lot of the install base, and then lots of potential customers. We do a lot, we do a lot of them. And that's one, first of all, that's exciting because we're advocates of this model. We use social media, whether it's video or blogging and we gather data. That's our core business. It's all about the data. Because it is about the signal from the noise and it's kind of like that movie contact with Jodi Foster. You know, that little sound that they hear in the white space opens up to a massive amount of good data. So, you know, this social media has been great for us. And if you look for the right data, you can get, you can spot that stuff. So, you know, a lot of companies miss this because they just don't, they're not disciplined. Or the VC say, you said you were going to do X. You know, I've seen that happen all the time where the VC's actually would say, no, you committed in the plan to do this. So you probably had to go in and say, hey, we're going to make a little direction change based on the data. That's right. And they go, okay, make sense. And it's obvious if you have the data, it's an easy decision. What's the pricing? What's the uptake? That's right. It's a forecast. Now you're rolling global namespaces. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. That's right. Especially with this marketplace now that we're in with a lot of the diversity. And what you find is people build clutter. They gather clutter. You know, the hot filer one time is not the hot filer now. And even if they stay single vendor, there's older filers and newer filers. And they want to hide that. The big thing on the global namespace pieces, they talk about data center administrators. Well, the data center admin doesn't actually administer the data center. He's admin, he's administering the users because any change he makes in the data center has to go tell every user about. And it becomes this big logistics issue. So we could hide all that. The user see one filer from now on and he could do anything he wants in the data center and stays hidden. But it really was this upswell of request and demand for it. That's great, that's great. So let's talk about what's next for you guys. Obviously, you're going to roll out global namespace. What's on the roadmap beyond that? Like, you know, obviously you're here at the show. Is it, I mean, when I say what's next, I mean, like for my product, you know, trend data perspective, you're looking at a lot of data. Is it virtualization? Is it, obviously that's a key driver you mentioned that. What are the key forces and directions that you guys are going to take? Well, I think more, so cloud is the big buzzword. And I think what cloud means to us is both private and public. What it means to us is people are looking for a centralized place to put their data and then they want to let users access it. And whether the storage is centralized or not, users want ubiquitous access to it. So no matter where they are, no matter what their proximity is to the data. From multiple platforms too. That's right. Multiple platforms, multiple sites, multiple user locations, they want to see the same image of their data. So data interoperability, that's kind of what you're saying. That's right. That's the big, big push for us right now. What do you think of big data? What's your definition of big data? That's the trend that's everywhere. Everyone's talking about, we cover it. It's hot from Hadoop to Oracle. So it's funny, I don't know that I can classify our customers as to one type. We have some customers where it's large files, large databases, lots of access. Like the movie guys. That's right. Then we have other people where it's tiny, lots of tiny files. Everyone's doing their own thing. And there are all these updates going on and there's a lot of sharing going on. More like the social media guys. And so to us, you know, right. To us, big data is every type of data. But what the big commonality is, people want the same access to it wherever they are. Right? And it's all different styles, different models of data, but always being able to see the same image. Mike Olson, the founder, the CEO of Cloudera, you know, I talk about this all the time, he actually hates the word big data. This is very much, you know, David doesn't get smaller. I mean, it's always, I mean, I mean, you can compress, but ultimately more data is created every day. So it's getting bigger. So it should be called bigger data. But he isn't like it because he's to that point, you see, you know, even with Cloudera, they see, you know, even Hadoop clusters, it's not about the size of the cluster, it's about the many clusters they have. So there's a lot of different formations of what it's, what's looking at. So he hates the word big data. I agree with him. It's about data, period, and data as an asset into developers, into other platforms. So this data interoperability is an interesting kind of dynamic because if someone creates data from, say, a user on a mobile phone, that might be accessed by another system and another file. So who gets what data? So that's interesting. You copy of the data? So this is an interesting phenomenon. Cool. Okay, we're here in theCUBE. Thanks for coming in. We appreciate it, Ron, Rebecca. Thanks a lot. Very good, thank you. Good luck with your business. Congratulations. We're here inside theCUBE talking to startups. SNW is the largest tech show in storage. It's changing. It's becoming mainstream, mega growth. These guys are going to make a lot of money. A beer, it's going to be a great company, well backed, successful entrepreneurs, doing it again with his team. Congratulations. The big guys are changing to solid state. A lot of new opportunities. Thanks so much for coming in theCUBE. Thanks again. Okay.