 I hope you're still having an amazing time with us and you're still watching Why in the Morning and why should you change that channel? You really shouldn't. A very, very, very, very big success to all the KCSE candidates who are sitting for the exams, starting 2J and the ones who finished last week KCP, hey, come back, what ground life need different and we're about to talk about Adolescence Rights ETC. It's going to be a late one. You really are not ready. A 254 Facebook, a 254 channel on Twitter, hashtag is Why in the Morning and why do I keep repeating these things because that's where you can get us. So if you hear something on set that you want to contribute to or disagree with, that is how you do it. Or you use our text line, 20154, again, 20154, start with Y254. My name is still Valentine and I'm very excited. Hi guys, good morning. Good morning. Welcome to the set. Would you like to introduce yourself, please? Let's start with the lady. Yes, my name is Lucy Minayo. I'm an advocate. I work with the Center for Reproductive Rights and mainly doing capacity building work at the Center. And you, sir. My name is Victor Asou. I work for Network for Adolescent and Youth of Africa and our work is around policies and legislation on sectional productive health and rights. In your field of work, where do you feel that the most rights are infringed on the youth? Like they don't completely know that they have rights or that the rights are being infringed continuously. Either they're being jailed or they come out being harmed in some way or the other. Is there like a specific source spot? Which one would it be? So I would say that in the sectional and reproductive health rights sector, we are still struggling to get an understanding, to secure an understanding that young people, adolescents to be specific, actually have reproductive rights. They actually have reproductive health needs and that there's an obligation that is imposed on the government to ensure that they are able to realize these sexual and reproductive health rights and needs. Yes. I was actually talking to Victor slightly a few minutes previously. I was asking, I will show him a song that we had just played because in this era they have emerged certain songs that are very essential to say the least because we're on TV, national TV, at that I must be diplomatic. So I was wondering, is that something that you also look at? I assume if you're going to say something then you're also doing it. So is that something you guys speak on, touch on a little bit? I think if you look at it, access to information is right but then we have an instance where adults begin defining for young people what kind of information, what are the parameters of this kind of information that the young people should have access to. And so why is this happening? Because we still remain a very conservative society that we don't want to discuss issues around sexual and productive health and rights openly so that young people have the correct information and this information they can use it to advance their sexual rights. So young people are put in a cage and then we don't talk about all these issues and all of a sudden there's a section of young people who are now using songs to express themselves and then as a society we explode. So we need to ensure that continuously we're giving young people the right information that they need and then they can be able to see what is right and what they want to advance at whatever level. But this can only be done if we have a very enabling environment and supportive legal environment. It's very important. If you had a budget across the spectrum between 15 and 25 and you were beginning to give them, I want to say prep kind of or training in reproductive health or something. What would you start? What would you be? What would be your first initiative to address? My ladies, okay, you need to do this or is it hygiene? Is it reproductive? What is it really in your masterclass? I think for me the starting point for any intervention that 60 person information is to try and understand where these people where they are at. What kind of information do they have? What kind of knowledge do they possess? And then using that to frame your training, to frame your intervention. And it's really because these young people are not homogeneous. They are not the same. So you find young people in cities, in urban centers having more information, young people in rural areas being less informed. And so the starting point for me for any kind of training or intervention that's about passing information, building knowledge, the knowledge base of the other party will depend on where they are at the moment. And that will essentially frame your training, whether you will start with hygiene or you'll start with sexual and reproductive health rights directly or you'll start with just generally how adolescents are relating with their parents or you know how they are supported in the community to realize their rights and so on and so forth. Yeah, the same outcome. So in one scenario you have two consensual adolescents. I want the adolescents, some of them are both under 18, high schoolers, you know, maybe one is 16, one is 17. I want to believe because you're imagining someone at 13 having intercourse. It's hurting my head. So I'll just imagine it's 16. All right, so these two are dating. They're calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend. They say they in love and then they have a consensual sex and the lady falls pregnant. So she's pregnant but she's not the age that is allowed even for just sex and is that age in the constitution? Is there 18, right? And then another story where not too long ago there was, I don't, I want to call it an outbreak because I really don't know what it was. At some point in the Kilefi coastal area there was an obscene number of pregnant girls who are doing KCPE. KCPE and I don't know if this was consensual. I imagine some were not in some were but same result. They're pregnant now. Are we failing, where are we failing as a society? So I don't want to cast aspersions on parents or teachers. I think we generally have to take the blame for where adolescents are at the moment and some of the issues were spoken to by Victor. So one in our law in our legal framework at the moment the age of consent is 18 years. So it's the law doesn't explicitly state it's 18 but children are recognized as not having capacity to consent to sexual conduct. So the assumption under the law or the interpretation is that any minors that are having sexual conduct with each other are engaging in illegal actions. So they don't have the ability to consent. Now we know, then we keep saying ground between the difference. Kilefi, that's exactly what Kilefi is telling us that on the ground we actually have instances where young people are having sex with each other. They're agreeing to have sex with each other. They're making a rational decision to do it and unfortunately the outcome because they don't have information, they don't have access to services, so they don't have contraception and all those things. Their outcome is pregnancies, the outcome is sometimes young people are being arrested and imprisoned for engaging in illegal conduct. How long can you be present for? So up to a maximum of even 20 years because the penalty depends on the age of the person who was defiled. So it's a problem. These are the things that were being spoken to earlier about the legal environment and how supportive it is or not of young people and you can see if we have a legal provision that puts the age of consent at 18 that places a caveat on young people having sex with each other then that means that will permeate to the other sectors. Services will not be provided because you're facilitating an illegal conduct or service providers will be afraid, will be careful not to provide services because they can be arrested and so on and so forth. So we have, it's a huge problem and it starts with how as a society we view adolescents, how we view minors, we don't see them as complete individuals with rights or with the needs, with actually if we just start with health needs because you're graduating from this period when you did not, for example with girls, you did not have periods, you now have periods, those are all reproductive health things. You know you're struggling with your body is changing, you're struggling with your mind, you're beginning to get attracted to people, you want to experiment, there is no supportive framework for that and the law is telling you that it's even wrong to think about a sexual relationship with your colleague, with your peer. So these are all the challenges that are presented by a law that restricts, completely restricts this kind of conduct among young people. I have so much to say but I want us to branch just a little bit. There was also a time in the frame of sorry the time frame of Kenyan politics and others that there was this Nemechil, you know did you saw the adverts how people say you know chill, the church came out and and made a firm standing that we should abstain. Now we have people saying what are we telling them right now, 16 under 18 let's just say under 18 and yes they have these needs but according to the law it's wrong and my friend, those guys are so disrespectful when they arrest you. So what are we telling them? Are we telling them not to have these feelings of lust of desire, we telling them to I didn't know how to put feelings on a pulse and I don't think you can. So how are we advising the youth? Just as Lucy has said so the first thing we need is a serious legal reform that looks at different parameters and takes cognizance of the fact that the young people are not homogeneous and they mature at different levels. It's the same same country that we've seen no you have 24 year grandmother and all that. We've seen the teen years giving birth and so the other thing as I said earlier is there is need for young people to get that comprehensive information around sexual and productive health and rights and they should start from the school level and these the information should be cascaded throughout their career life so that they know we look at this is the kind of information that we need to package for young people at this particular age and then progressively we increase that information as we also work around the legal reform because studies have also shown even studies done by the government and different government policies they're recognizing that the age of sexual debut is continuously decreasing and therefore that means that more young people are having sex we've seen new I mean rising cases of HIV infection among young people we also know there are there are increasing cases of young people who are procuring and safe abortion and so all these issues undermine proper growth and development of young people because our health infrastructure does not match the needs of the young people their growth patterns and the kind of information package that needs to be given to young people over a period of time and this does not only have now a bearing on the social aspect it has a bearing on education it has a bearing on the ability of young people to participate it has a bearing on the economic aspect of young people yeah so this if this is addressed then you'll see there are multiple benefits that will accrue from addressing the right information on giving young people the right to access the sexual and productive health and rights so what we're seeing it's it's difficult to be a teenager in Kenya who maybe is a new mom because you've said services might not be you know very open to them because it's it's wrong you know so that means a Ukshka bowl no Jafika Miaka 18 that means either you keep it or you take it away and if you take it away that's illegal because okay the constitution already it's illegal it's not like other countries but keeping it is also illegal is that what we're saying so how do we move forward from that so two things curiously so one abortion is not illegal in Kenya it's restricted so they are under the constitution one can access an abortion to save the life of the mother or to save their health or in case of an emergency so only when recommended yes so in if in the opinion of a trained health provider they consider that your life your health is in danger or there's an emergency that warrants that intervention additionally recently there was a judgment of the high court that held that women and girls who suffer sexual violence rape can also access abortions if in the opinion of a trained health provider such rape such sexual violence poses a danger to their life to their health or you know constitutes an emergency so just that one to to just make the young people that are watching us to have that information then secondly to say that to say that to say that okay take your time that when a young person curiously in our service provision how our service how our policy works and this is why it sends mixed messages to young people and it works in such a way that a young person who gets pregnant will be given preferential treatment in our service so an adolescent through 13 who gets pregnant can access services can access information on the pregnancy and all those things meanwhile this young person was not able to access information before that would have prevented them information and services that would have prevented them from getting pregnant so those contradictions are what they are they're sending mixed messages to young people sending mixed messages to service providers and it's those are the things that we need to harmonize to ensure that at the very least young people have access to information comprehensive as victor has said scientifically accurate and here we are saying that young people are not homogeneous they grow differently they have different needs and all that but more importantly that we have a health infrastructure that supports them to access services when a young person presents to a health facility and they want a service you know they deserve to be listened to and they deserve to be attended to and what is more very important for us to be thinking about as we have this really big conversation is that the rate of HIV for example among young 15 to 24 10 to 15 it's increasing that is what the studies by the national AIDS control council and others are telling us and so we really we have to we really have to develop systems that resonate that respond to these needs of young people before they become you know it becomes a catastrophe it becomes an epidemic that we are trying to deal with after you know people are really suffering i agree with you and i also think that i think it's also social change because if this 13 year old gets pregnant the whole society first of all we're going to bash them why are you pregnant at 13 you're loose your legs are always open why are you not studying is there something wrong with you you know all that into now actually carrying the child and again i come back to the story the key leafy story where all those pupils not even students pupils are pregnant it's a story it it was you know magnificent for a few days but then we forgot about it but these girls gave birth now their moms you know we don't know if they continue to school we don't know what's happening and on the same breath transition is important when it's something i feel as a society maybe we don't have as much that means my mother kcp under high school no one is get telling you like you know okay you're going to grow you're going to be different if you didn't have your menses yet in primary then you're definitely going to find them somewhere in high school what to do with your body you know you're going to be if you're going to be in a boarding school that means you're going to be away how you're going to be feeling how you're going to be relating the hormones that there's things going on when you finish your high school you go to campus now that's a whole different ball game there's so much more freedom and they're not yet still telling us all we're focusing on is but we're not teaching them how to transition is there something we need to know in accordance to the law about our transition as our rights from when we're in primary when we're that young age when we come to high school do our rights expand we have more rights they become more limited when we go to campus are we no longer you know a sensitive group now we are big we're grown up so leave us alone we don't have any rights what's going on I think as I alluded to earlier is that we need to have comprehensive well packaged sexual and productive health and rights and my colleague Lucy said that is scientific in nature and we look at young people through all these levels so we also need to accept that as a society the young person of today is more exposed than a young person of 15 years ago yeah we have more and more access to information from peers from the internet and other different sources so as much as we are not talking about all these we're not giving young people information they're getting information elsewhere the big question is the information they're getting elsewhere is it the correct information is it consistent and therefore and that's why you see parents will be more concerned about you don't do this don't do this but you're never told why that should not be done the government does not provide also that information in a timely manner then when you get to the university then you realize aha now have all that freedom but we also we are also forgetting that we have so many young people who are left behind in the process in that they are not able to get the right information they did not make the right decision some of them are mothers at all some of them are having different life challenges and struggles and so if you look at it you'll see there are a lot of boys who transition into high school and then later to the university than girls why because then we have a society that the information is designed while all these young people need information but women and girls have more challenges that than the boys and so we also need to take that into consideration and give all this information and have a very clear transition plan if young people for example get pregnant that they need to be allowed to go back to school to continue with their education but then you also have to do the legal reforms so that they can be able to access contraception and this will also allow them to delay the instances where they can be able to again have children during this let's just stay there for a second what like we give them access to contraceptives you think that's a good idea it is a right it's a right it's not just an idea it's a right it's a right wow but as Lucy says we have also a restrictive legal environment so you also need to reform that yeah but Lucy will comment on the legal part of it yeah no and I think just to add the the so here is the thing is we are living like ostriches and this problem is not just in Kenya so I've interacted with our partners and with stakeholders in Uganda in Tanzania in Malawi in many other countries and Victor will tell you because he works directly with young people these are the problems that are present in those contexts so if young people are having sexual engagements with each other how do you so the the point is how do we create an environment that supports young people through this transition and and that and that does not necessarily mean that if we for example provide information that young people are going to be overly active sexually or that if we enable them to access services that they are now just going to do whatever they want to do in fact if you told someone in the village that you're going to start talking about sex to a child like what are you teaching them exactly is that what you want them to start doing exactly so the idea is to create an environment where young people are supported and where we are working towards positive sexual and reproductive health outcomes so that these young people can occupy their place in the society and can begin contributing you know we are supporting them to grow to grow effectively and then to contribute to the you know to the country's political social legal cultural all those contexts but where we are at the moment is we view young people as individuals that have limited rights and we are stuck in that limited rights framework without recognizing that we have the society has changed that today you only have to young have young people in your house to realize that oh something was happening because they will not be with you every day every time every every minute of that time that they're in your house so how are we supporting young people to access the right information how are we supporting them to access services because if a young person comes to a facility and is asking for services they there should be a recognition that this young person understands what it is they want to do and they should be supported and not meant made to feel like they are delinquents they are behaving contrary to morals of the society that just chases them away but it doesn't make them not stop to do it doesn't make them stopped doing what they were doing exactly so we really need to think critically as a society about how we create an environment where young people feel supported where young people can walk up confidently to their parents parents and ask them mom i'm having these feelings for this guy how do i deal with it or mom i really feel like i need to do things this way how can i do it those are not the conversations that people are currently having with their kids i don't there's some people who hardly ever have conversations and i i don't want to i feel like i'm in the age of being a parent so i don't want to start saying your parents are not doing this i whatever your parents are doing to to you know put food on the table for you or to help you that's that should be applauded first of all okay congratulations good job but what happens when okay i want us to just deviate from the pregnancy situation but i believe everything you've said because i it's come to my attention that ladies or girls rather would rather contract a an std or an sti than be pregnant because i don't want to i don't want to be a mom so it's it's it's ridiculous but what are the health issues maybe do you focus on there's been this hpv kind of situation going back and forth where they've told us okay get vaccinated as early as you can now if you do there might be problems in the future when such things come up do you spearhead tell them okay no we know what's up we know this is good for you and we know this is bad for you so the discussion on those kind of hpv and all that i think it's important for young people to know or for the people watching this show to know that we actually have an instrument a legal document an international legal document that kenya signed on to that has a provision in there about a right for women to women and girls to benefit from scientific progress now we know as a country or as globally as the world cancer is a leading it's a leading cause of death and cervical cancer causes a lot of deaths among women and girls and so the conversation we should be having as a country should really be led driven by individuals that are experienced individuals scientists who know who can tell us give us accurate again we go back to the accurate information accurate information on this kind of on this vaccine what are the benefits and what are the side effects if at all and how how has the vaccine contributed to reduction in cases of cervical cancers in countries where it has been rolled out successfully so it's important i think for us to move away from the information that's currently in our whatsapp groups in our facebook walls and all that into a conversation that is really about scientifically this is a good intervention or this is this intervention is meant it's geared at this and this and that's not what we are currently hearing so right now everybody has said no my child will not have that vaccine because this person said this and this but here so we are not necessarily receiving accurate information that can help us make informed choices that will benefit our children yeah we are just going with whatever is being told the new hype yes have a special question for you lucy said earlier that you deal a lot with young people boy child and i know me are happy because as we'll tell you girl child hygiene or streaming but many but what is the boy child suffering from what is the problem how what are the you know the most cases you receive well the cell cases the issues that the boy child is suffering from we have so many we have increasing incidences of depression among the boy child because most of them they don't have anyone to talk to they don't want i mean they don't open up easily because the society has made them feel that which is a totally i mean it's just a funny kind of narrative within society but we also have we also have the the boy child in terms of those who are also impregnated the the ladies and i mean young women and girls and there is also that now they need to be responsible and which lucy is more qualified to comment on that around those still in prison we have all this burden on the boy child and you've seen a lot of them they drop out of school they're into the border border business and and all that and other than just the boy child you will also realize that there are also increased infection especially on hiv infection among teen to teen and also those who are under 24 they are infecting each other and so all these problems they are gravitated by just this lack of information and this moves on for a period of time and then you realize of a period of time then you get to a situation where these young people economically they can support politically they're not participating in in the required i mean they're not meaningfully participating socially they're absent yeah so we all there is need to support but it's not only about supporting boy child there is need to support both of them so that they have that information and they work together towards a better future do you get cases okay i'm sure they're there but they're not very highlighted in the media you know social otherwise of the gentleman being raped because there's a whole situation whole narrative around rape and it's usually just girls you know and the story changes or she's lying or she was telling the truth or it's a very high-profile person you can't talk about it but it's there's a situation where boy child it comes and tells you oh this happened and i don't know what to do and how do you deal with that victor is not even attempting the question talk to me to see have you come across such an incident i think anecdotally there is that information that exists out there that is the reality i think the challenge is like we say we are a society that that doesn't encourage boys and men to come out and to speak out when they are violated but these violations are there young people men young men adolescent boys are getting raped and you just need to work to any gender violence recovery center to get this kind of information yeah but they are so full of Ntambian in Iwatu it's very difficult to go i understand even just to speak out and say this happened to me so we gotta counsel them yes so it's a recalibration that we need to do as a society and it can just start in your small sphere of influence for example how if you are a parent how are you raising your your children you know to embrace things like positive masculinity how are you raising your boys and girls to inculcate this this kind of positive engagement by both girls and boys so that they know that that happened to you it was wrong and you were hurt and it's okay to be in pain and we can now chart a recovery plan for you while we prosecute the person who violated you that's a recalibration that will take a long time but i think in our small sphere of influence we can start building that creating that environment that will result in a building of trust so that people feel free to come and to report even how we structure our health system is it structured in our is it manned by workers who are accepting who acknowledge that these are problems that are happening in the society and not individuals that will laugh at young people when they are a young man when he goes to report that exactly so hopefully that's not happening but do we really have a health system that is that is doing that yeah so it's um we need to really work on our society to make people understand that sexual violence whoever it's happening to is wrong it is illegal and it should be punished in the toughest way possible and whoever the victim or the survivor was should feel comfortable to access you know to first of all reports and to go to a health facility to seek treatment immediately and to you know to to be supported to access this other psychosocial support that will work on the trauma and you know minimize the impact of the sexual violence on on them the long-term impact of the sexual violence all right victor today's man crush Monday so he put a lot of emphasis on markings so would you like to conclude the topic for us what would you like to tell the youth out there so it is important for young people to get the right information that will help them in terms of making informed decisions and for them to get to this that point there has to be a supportive environment um at the society level um at the legislative level and also within our health system and as a society we must work together in ensuring that we continuously build the capacity of our young people to be able to participate and meaningfully contribute to the social economical and all other spheres of development in this country thank you he's done it very well okay according to me i have lots of few things from this class please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong number one dress spell will not kill you please all right just be safe be careful out there the more partners you have the more at risk you are seek out knowledge monthly just find things out have a curious mind it's it's for your own good where it's together so far be compassionate be kind to people who've been going through things or who are going through things be gentle with people who are suffering from depression because that is a mental health disorder right it's it's legit just be kind be nice okay and how can we reach out to you guys if we have a question uh so if anyone has a question they want to reach out to the center for reproductive rates our website is www.reprorights.org so they can get our contact details in there um they can yeah so our contact details details on the website all right yes so we're free to access any type of information should we just come straight to you right yes yeah so guys form go to their website again www.reprorights.org but in case you missed this interview you've just joined why in the morning you can catch the repeat okay no there's no repeat today but we will upload it on youtube so that's at white 5 4 channel as well we gotta