 Between one travel and the other, you're displaced. Now it's a pleasure to be connecting with you guys in Berlin and to feel the heat. It's great to have a milieu information and to see it grow over the months and over the years. Like Eugenio, we've met like what two years ago now in our different quests and trajectories. So now it's really a pleasure. Thanks for putting it up in such a short time. I had no idea what to present about at the beginning, so I sent you an abstract of stuff that I had just finished working on. But listening to Christine and then to Waseem, I thought I think I have something to offer today that is I think a really good match that is articulating both the issues around storytelling that Christine was tackling at the beginning and Waseem's kind of a crypto trader confession, you know, the reversal of trajectories, which I really appreciate. I think it's a great way also to share knowledge, to make it dynamic in this way, and I truly appreciated it. So that's listening to you that I decided to change topic. Instead of talking about mutual encryption, which is like more a specific way of, let's say to be very graphic, a way to articulate the divide between the Black Panthers and the Techno-Etopian that we're just on the other side of the Bay Area. So the birth of the world we're in, you know, between the hippie Techno-Etopist of San Francisco and then the Black Panthers that were somehow defending or developing protocols for self-defense in a world that was deeply toxic and still is. And the quote that you decided to bring in next to the Solar Punch discussion from Bio is, for me, extremely telling. So I think I'm going to pick up from there. I'm going to share my screen. And yeah, I'm going to comment the quote rapidly and then move on with my talk. I'm going to try to read, but you will see what seemed like the echoes are so close that like now we're going to be discussing what risk assessment management and stuff at the next salon. And I think we have maybe a good basis here to iterate further. So let me see. Yeah, here it is. Okay, can you see my screen? Yes, we do. Right. So, like a tropical storm, I too may one day become better organized is what I'm going to be discussing. Before, before going into that, I just wanted to comment rapidly bios quote, the first paragraph of it, this idea, because I mean the idea of place and sharing and bodies in relation. I mean, it's, it's definitely important it's been discussed a lot. I like the twist that he brings in when he says to be in a place is to keep making maps to locate oneself there again and again. Recursive mapping function that is I think very rigorous when it comes to what is it to generate localities that are not predicated on historical identities, you know, like people in the most regressive sense, but something that includes in its definition of mapping function, I think, can open up quite what something that I like to call a following a couple of friends here in Montreal techniques for becoming a belonging in becoming. So this idea of being at home, as always, being an exercise in cartography, I think, I think it's, it's very strong. It's very rich. And this is basically what I'm going to be articulating through another entry point, which is a little story by Lydia Davis called. Well, here's the story. And here's the presentation of that story. Like a tropical storm. I, too, may one day become better organized. The sentence is not extracted from a longer text. It is not an excerpt nor quote. It is a story in and of itself, a little literary machine indeed exhaustive and complete a blood generator in its own right. It appears in the varieties of disturbance section of the collected stories of Lydia Davis. With a remarkable economy of means, Lydia Davis system sentence succeeds in establishing a zone of recursive intelligibility, a refrain, a tune of its own, a climate derived from the ancient green Greek Lima. The word was originally applied in geography. It designates a position defined by the inclination of the sky or the stars, as well as a terrestrial region viewed in terms of the temperature that prevails there. It took only a small step from here to end up with today's usage of the word climate to describe an effective atmosphere, the ambience that permeates a place, for example, a climate of insecurity, or as Auguste Comte and fatally stated in his positive philosophy, the social influence of permanent local causes, which I guess is realist enough in what seems sense. This climatic organizing of atmospheric forces offers an interesting counterpoint to the constant process of contingelization and formal integration to the functional unification of the world under the ages of capital. For if our main challenge nowadays is about ecologizing value, if the idea is to counteract the world system of the economy and to deactivate it or make it inoperative, or again to exfoliate the modes of capture and organization that are proper to it, I believe that we will have to arm ourselves with thought images that can help us escape this regime, which says is everything from the outside, this mode of existence for which each abstraction results in an extractive procedure. And that's part of the discussion we've had with what seemed like what type of knowledge do we generate when we come as this transdisciplinary collective and and and it's it's a it's a fairly deep question because it takes time for each other to assess our different trajectories and the disciplines that we can't just pretend we know right from the start and at the same time at some point we need to be somehow able to build bridges between them. So I really appreciated this this attempt by what seemed at the simulating some epistemic trespassing attempts. I for my part that's part of our discussion would go more for like something more about transductive processes, but here I think we have the components of what we want to work around, which in my terms here would be the exfoliation of the value form, which you did already discussing the way Bitcoin conceives of itself as a black hole of money. It's I guess it's the realism of that irresistible black hole that that requires perhaps some heavy loaded ontological tools to debunk somehow, because otherwise it's really, I think at this level of the discussion. What is the problem of images of thought, like what do we deem real enough and how do we propel into existence realities that might be a bit too fragile as of now. A lot of plants and metaphysics of mixture and when I manually coach lays out an anthology that is in tune with the breath of life forms, a great cosmology of mixture that puts a special emphasis on the notion of climate. The climate he writes is the name and the metaphysical structure of mixture. He goes on saying climate is the being of cosmic unity in all climates, the relation between the container and the contained is constantly reversible. This becomes content, what is content becomes place. The medium becomes subject and the subject becomes medium. All climate presupposes this constant topological inversion is oscillation that undoes the border between subject and environment, a role reversing oscillation. So coach offers numerous resources for a general conjuration of the value form and its procedures of exclusion and closure and formalization. It's taste for the clear and distinct. It's obsession for the clean and proper. This conjuration involves among other things a thorough criticism of the epistemological ideal of knowledge specialization, or more precisely of specialization as a corporatist expression of the organization of knowledge. So I quote coach again. Universitas is the technical term that names a corporation. And in the cognitive limits of the discipline are those of this. Sorry, the cognitive limits of the discipline are those of the self awareness of the corporation, the identity, the reality, the unity and the epistemological autonomy of the discipline in question are no more than secondary effects of the distinction unity and power of the collegium association of the learned persons who govern it. So you will see where I'm going here because that's really the question of the incorporation of value that I'm interested in here and how can we work our way around it. Such consideration to undo the institutional borders of knowledge invert topologies says atmospheres by their milieu and derive new cosmogonies from them have become an urgent among a growing number of people. The coach like the authors of the under commons or the duo behind the film essay deep implicancy helps us to visualize the decrease of value to expose the little charge carried by the extraction inherited from metaphysics and the material and exceptionalizing the determinations that are associated with it. So I can only recommend watching the nice very rare the Sylvan Arjun Newman's film for waters deep implicancy as like an applied attempt, a filmmaker attempt at folding oneself into the fabric of the world in ways that will revert or topologically revert the value form as as a technique of enclosure. So these ideas inevitably contrast with the enabling constraints or constituent powers at work in the field of crypto economics, armed with its blockchain and other distributed ledger technologies crypto economics lives off the promise that we could turn the economy into a design question that we could program its governing categories in other way, in another way, beginning with the operation of its value accumulators to partially short circuiting its state and legal foundations. So the question of the value accumulation is really key here for whatever scalable economical system we're in visiting in some post capitalist or solar pond future. This is a movement in which libertarians and cipher punks rallied rallied around the slogan cold is law mingle with generally well intentioned young people who may have accepted a bit too literally the possibility evoked by Thomas Piketty of attacking the systemic inequalities not by abolishing them, but by establishing new forms of property, social fractal speculative, but also temporary, and of course, decentralized. So here, walk with me on the sorcery of the spectacle reddit thread, one encounters a representative description of the charm of abrasive realism that prompts want to redefine from within the system, the modes of capture of capital. So I quote from this. These are, these are people that collaborated with the economic space agency, a couple of years ago and with all the chain as well. They wrote capitalism only hangs on because it is the most secure way of securing value inside a container. So whatever comes after capitalism would simply be more of that. The only thing that can defeat capitalism is an even more secure way of securing value inside a container that is even more capitalist. This is like written by young sorcerers of the spectacles that are deeply influenced by someone like Nick land for instance. And the type of acceleration is in that you can feel here like we need better containers if we want to challenge the way wealth is distributed nowadays I mean this is like a textbook description of what Bitcoin is about. It really ties in closely with what was seen was seen before Bitcoin can't care less about what is external to its network and that's the formal beauty of it I guess that's what Nick land celebrates in his to be published book about about Bitcoin, like this self enclosed like self enclosed self sufficiency has as a formal beauty to itself, and it's economically extremely powerful, but I agree that to generate such black hole is indeed we're paying too much for that. So I would say that Bitcoin is like the wet dream of a certain way of conceiving economics as a self enclosed system that is able to abstract itself in such ways that anything that doesn't concern economics becomes what we call externalities which I mean this is this is deeply deeply offensive this is the worst, this is the most toxic part I guess of the whole Western metaphysics. It produces so much toxicity produces so much rests, and it's, yeah it's, I guess it's our challenge to deal with that. What is at play here from a crypto financial point of view is the process of incorporation of forms of value as such, that is the legal or digital codification, whereby an economic asset is enclosed, securitized monetized, that is contingentialized. The money founded on the blockchain makes it possible to issue tokens in which various governance and property rights, various pre established circulation and transmission rules would be program, a new form of network based value. So the information or legal and digital incorporations constitute what the economic space agency calls economic spaces, meaning spaces within which it is the very organization of our way of risking and speculating together. That becomes the main vector of valorization. So that's as far as I will go in the crypto economic side of things. It's clear enough that we have a challenge here that is about. I think personally we can't fight capitalism or whatever value form enclosure devices that we're dealing with without generating our own way of partially enclosing value, which is, I guess, what I would call here a pharmacological approach. There are different ways of doing it. Not everyone needs to go on that frontline, but I think that's kind of what brought us together in Berlin to try to think at this. Yeah, at this very conjuncture so it's, it's, we are creating a climate, somehow around trust, and, and a few other localities, and it's pretty powerful. But it is distinction between the necessary operational enclosures of the value form and the deep compartmentalizations inspired by climate oriented approach that I feel one must fully envisage here at best crypto economics and its digital incorporation of forms of value could act as an again tropic pharmacone, as the last puts it, a perspective in which the economy itself works as a general therapy for the biosphere, reversing the destructive course of the entropy scene by favoring the always localized slowing of entropic processes. At worse, and I mean for now we're clearly more on the worst side of things, the proliferation of crypto economics modes of organization might actually signify the destruction that is the economic reduction of countless other types of worlding practices, more subtle, more improbable, less calculable to the quest for scalability and that thing reminds us tends to banish meaningful diversity, that is diversity that might make a difference. Indeed, just as more traditional capitalist formations, crypto economically enabled modes of governance might be predating upon forms of trans individual sociality that have been as Fred Moten and Stefano Harney have explained in the under comments militantly preserved away from for profit capitalist and this is where the discrete charm of Lydia Davis literary proposition displays its effectiveness in my view. It suggests for the blockchain and distributed autonomous organizations enthusiasts, as much as for the most hardened among those who have professed allegiance to critique as a mode of existence that perhaps one day we also may become better organized like a tropical storm. The image of the tropical storm as paradigm of an organization to come is immediately seductive. All of the entropy scene seems to be contained here in a single and desirable momentum and in coactive movement proportionate to the devastating powers of these quasi chaotic and self organized systems we call your hurricanes. But things get more complicated as of the next line. I to may one day become better organized. The I set apart by a comma reflected and differentiated via the conjunctive adverb to considers the eventuality of an improvement. This upcoming optimization, this possibility of a becoming better organized is introduced by quotation marks that immediately leave one perplexed and retrospectively questioning. What modification do they convey? What mundane elements do they partake in? In other words, what do they testify to and socially verify? Talk about the commas here. When we bring commas or square quotes, it's a very social act that we are bringing in because we're implying some sort of reference. These commas seem to indicate a relative complicity, maybe with anonymous materials, hinting at some double entendre. Something that however on the stated or under determined it is, is likely to be discovered and referenced, discoverable because referenced, and that may for this very reason be shared too. For my part, I cannot help but see at least a tinge of ironic distancing at work here, or perhaps even slightly verging on the side of the organizational paranoia, a straight up warning regarding best practices. These allegedly optimal ways of doing and behaving for the always professionalizing subject of the startup world, self-upgrading codes of conduct at the core of the managerial mystique upheld by the standing reserves of consultants. Better organized, the untanniness that these quotation marks introduced is consistent with the promise of standardization that lurks within this expression. The I2 is henceforth subjected to potential optimizing conformation, which is perhaps not a bad thing as such, but nowadays it would however be prudent to keep one's guards up when someone makes you such an offer. It is often not quite custom made, at times even just plain random, most likely to make you lean or agile, thereby pursuing the leveling work of generalized governance. Stefano Harney shows how much the fallow land between a life and its organizational formatting can rapidly be transformed into an opportunity for extending the realm of capital's illegibility. So I'm quoting Stefano Harney here. This immersion in the market is doubled in the figure of the consultant. The consultant is nothing more than a demonstration of access. He or she can show up in your workplace and open it up in ways you thought were protected solid. His presence is proof that you are now newly accessible. No one needs to listen to a consultant. He is just a talking algorithm anyway, but he has made his point by showing up. So here there would be like a tension towards techniques for mutual encryption, or like how do you deal with a consultant coming to your workplace? Or how do we deal with ourselves as constantly threatened by becoming consultant that would be the more intimate version of it. So better organized, isolated between scare quotes as they are delightfully called in English. The sync tag introduces a slight interact interactional lag and existential singularization that causes or will cause a steer. The estrangement embodied in the idea of a life in the process of being informed of being informed stages something like a contingent plot information to become or not to become better organized. From this perspective, the brief sentence reveals itself to be both a territorializing recursion and an adventure in singularization. So this last part is maybe a little bit more far fed not far fetch but just just a bit more abstract so bear with me. I'm trying to name something about and that's where I'm going towards what seemed background to put it in in very graphic terms because I am learning like, like you see this type of presentation very literary very continental perhaps. And there is a real joy in appreciating more and more, more and more discrete forms of knowledge production. And, and that he has a very nice way to bridge these two worlds like between soft and hard sciences or whatever we call them. So he says, what is affirmed during this traversing of regions of being and modes of simulatization are traits of singularization kinds of existential stamps that date event allies contingelize states of fact. The referential correlates and the assemblages of Annunciation that corresponds to them. Another way he puts it, I know here like it may be not super proper in a talk like that it's it's quite abstract but he says, like to say the same thing from another perspective, he says flows only subsist if supported by the modulation of an imminent point of view that causes or contingencies, their determine ability. So you have like a philosopher that has been writing books with dollars that are all about flows here going in the detail of what flows are made of. And this is exactly, I think the challenge of dealing with crypto economics and dealing with the actual making of the economic flows as we know them, and see if we can divert hack. I don't know. We need to tackle the challenge of seeing how things have, have been discretized how value or forms of value have been enclosed in order to perhaps do something else with them. So it's kind of like for me the images is a bit of the, the Iranian enriched uranium as a toxic waste. It's there, like it's going to be there for a long time we need to learn to evolve or bring it closer to our gravity center or we need to play with it. Like the question of value is pretty deep, because we all profoundly I guess and I guess maybe that's a question for the solar pond that we were discussing before, how much civilization do we want to carry forth. Like, how much continuity, historical continuity do we want to inscribe ourselves in. And whatever answer we bring to that question involves the notion of value. So maybe to wrap up, Felix got a risk is so analytic cartographies are fascinating for those who seek to think the value form and the means of its pharmacological exfoliation with or without blockchain. So one indeed cannot envisage to ecologize or deactivate value without making oneself more sensitive to the existential stance, or what I would call here the temporal signatures of finance familiar familiarizing oneself with finance familiarization power and future bound activation to its value discovery process and the way in which it takes a hold on the to come a forms of life is I think the challenge here. So basically, like a tropical storm, we need to accept the capture of a becoming climate and stay with the financial trouble. That will be it for me now. You hear me now. Yeah. There you go. Wow, Eric. It's always a journey to sit back and listen to your, yeah, your mind speaking. And yeah, also nice to hear again some reference. Like deep implicates you. Do you mind explore that a little bit. Yeah, it's a film that was made by Arjun Newman and the nice era the silver was presented the Berlin Biennale in 2018. It's online. I can send you the link you can find it pretty easily on female. It's about half an hour long, and it's, it's basically a visual manifesto against the geometrization of value. So it's going back to the sources of play to and and Western philosophy, and then tries to suggest other modes of immersing oneself in these calls. I have my reservation with the knees is way of talking about the planet. But for that matter, like I think that the title is extremely suggestive, like modes of deep implicancy brings you on a different path than producing self enclosed forms of value that can then circulate in a sensible insensitive or undifferentiating themselves from anything else. That's, that's the violence that is encapsulated in the value form that the knees is and Arjun are criticizing through this idea of deep implicancy. It's a trippy film like I mean it's, it's a deeply mediating film that I strongly recommend. So if I may be so bold, we have a secret celebrity question has been watching our talk in a crypto castle in France, and they have been sending questions for you they would like to talk to you they're interested by the content of your discussions. And so there's a question here about institutions, as opposed to institutions. And I suppose this might be, you know, like the Lacanian ex-democracy in relation to intimacy. And so the question is asking about the extent to which your talk relates to extitutional theory, and where we can design exclosures in order to protect against enclosures and the example that this person is given. It's a copy left, as in creative commons, is an enclosure from copyright to protect comments. So what's the equivalent for blockchains or like in crypto economics. Yeah, I don't know what's the equivalent exactly but we're working on one with the project, the sphere that I'm part of trying to create some sort of digital commons for the performing arts and circus artists. I mean, I think there's no, it's practical, I think, like the passage between the in and the ex. I do think there is a part of, I mean, you can call it different ways, self organizing, taking up some sense of locality, what is it that you want to defend or what is it that you are actually always already expressing that needs to be taken up. At a formal level, so that something can be, I come from a background where it's very much about experiencing the impersonal flow of affects. And then some individuals will coalesce into an expression, you know, it's like, there's a lot that you can describe by the invent the individual waiting and trying to be more sensitive to the forces around. When I started engaging with crypto economics, it was more in the financial activists type of mindset and, and that requires taking up the question of how to formalize things so that they can interact at a level that will be, I don't know, politically significant. On the activists milieu. What about a co-option as a way of like thinking about explosion enclosures so maybe we're trying to build economic and technological primitives that mitigate against appropriation and co-option. Yeah, it's a very good point. I mean within the digital world as we know it, I think we need less. Maybe I'm too blunt here but there's a lot of discussions in the Dow space about modes of governance that are constantly reiterating a fairly straightforward ideal of transparency, like we want more transparency we want more democracy we want more decentralization. And maybe a bit provocatively here and building on what you were just suggesting when you build up some sort of digital fortress for whatever reason, you might want to consider secret society as a cultural technique, you know, as something that might speak to you more directly than inventing modes of voting that will be more democratic and I mean you need you need quadratic voting you need all sorts of transparency for scalable organization to take hold, but that's not the end of the story. You also need in the same breath to consider hyperstitial elements that are always part of any process of governance. It doesn't matter what the technological substrate is, it's people at both sides in most cases. I mean it's social machines all through, you know, like the people are actually also technologically individuated, I would say, it matters who picks up what, you know, like what type of weapon do you pick up as you flee or as you want to build this new stronghold or just fugitive lines of flight. But yeah, and just not to have this opposition between the technique or the infrastructural and the people because I think I think we agree on how this is actually very like you you tell stories about the coin that very few people can tell because you know how the technical infrastructure and the people entertaining it are at some point we've been and and this is very rich to be able to describe it at that level. The implications of the implications. Actually more questions from our secret superstar viewer. If I ask them, I worry that he will identify the person. So I will not ask them. We'll talk about them offline. Okay, come on. Okay, here's one I can ask about DAOs. So we already spoke about DAOs and we have friends very close friends that work very deeply with them. This idea of an inside out organization that doesn't have any leaders like a PTP structure can and how is a DAO an institution as opposed to an institution. Can you can you say again sorry. Sure. How is a DAO an institution as opposed to an institution. I don't know. I've never thought of execution that way. I understand. I mean, what I'm suggesting here is more. Let's be climatic about it. Let's, let's allow for all the forces that constitute the climate as a locality as a precarious locality to somehow factor in. I am institution is is a really problematic word in French we have installation, installation. You can translate it by establishing that installation gives you a better sense that when you institute something into when you organize a kernel that will have some sort of historical life. It's like, you know, when you write a piece or you do something creative, you know when that thing will be able to walk by itself in the world. But before that, it's on you to nurture the soul that you're constituting, you know, that is what installation is about what type of institutions are we building together with our open ended conversation. I don't know exactly, but the way we pick up the consequences of the thinking we're doing together is the restorative. It has it has a power that could start expressing itself in in context and millions that we don't even see for now. Right. Yeah, I would say I'm rather happy to spend the day with you all. Likewise. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, unless you guys want to continue. I'm good to continue. And there is the deprived. And I guess you both to, you know, right. So it's really nice to see you can yourself Christine as well. And hopefully we can reconnect to the rest of the program. Yeah, Christine really pleasure. And it's, you know, we're seeing always a pleasure. Thanks everyone. I guess we're saying goodbye. Thank you. Bye.