 ends up doing the work for the child. So the problem that you're saying is that we have taken the you know the western system but you have not really tailor made it to suit our own children, our own system because now it brings the issue of discrimination for those children that can't afford to buy some materials that are required of them that are left out. So what needs to be done apart from that you also mentioned the implementers, the teachers you know what needs to be done in that area to just make sure that things operate smoothly for the benefit of the children. I think what is expected of us especially for those who are in the policy level they need to look at their policy they need also to look at how this program can be implemented without really making the young ones more dependent of what their seniors or their parents or their old brothers and sisters can do for them so that they can submit the assignment to school. So they need to have a policy and ensure that when we are preparing these young ones the curricula is such a way that it is controlled to manage the young ones to be able to do their work themselves and even when they are doing examinations they also need to stress more on these practical aspects so that you produce your own product you produce your own innovative project that then can be able to be measured. For example we have the curricula is they have said it is long to have the career parts those who go to arts those who go to sciences but there is somebody in a remote area in this republic who may have been good in science but has no access to test this capability in the set institutions because they don't have the laboratories are not there if there is no resources in this republic they need to find even the sub-county level even they go to the zone level so that they be able to ensure that at least there is a central point where these young ones can have extra lessons to be able to get the demonstrations to the to the things that they're supposed to do in the laboratories in the science-based subjects so that now this team it is given a strong foundation otherwise we are killing the spirit of the scientists who are a pure in those remote areas and like those who are in the upper areas who can access a laboratory if the government and their own thinking because now we have had people in the junior two now they were junior last they began last year now they are moving to junior as junior grade eight and the ones who are in grade seven nothing about the anything on science and the touching things that can shape them now they are eight nothing so if they can sit and re-arriquate these resources and ensure in a zone where they are like where i come from bumagamo and in yageita zone we have around 20 primary schools where cpc is already pitched they can say of the 20 let's have five schools that have laboratories and these young ones can be taken there in a week they can be sharing that facility so that now they are able to expose and see if that's the area they would want to do when they go to senior secondary this is missing we are more of theoretical and we are we are we are now becoming even worse off than they they just ended eight four four a few weeks ago and now the results has been released because if they were able to create a model within a given as model unit then people could be able to go there get their training and go back and they do their training even extra hour so that at the end of the day the numbers in those roku areas they may not be many so that now somebody can come out and say i have been trained this side i think i'm more of science so when they go to senior now that already established secondary schools the current secondary schools have laboratories and they have more science equipment they will have developed that that area of interest so that they can proceed and do it like now if i ask you if they clear today they want to be junior two which is grade eight after next year they will be going to the last face of junior secondary and they have never seen another laboratory have you prepared these people for that career but we have lost them all of them now are at best so it's better than if if the government is unable to provide it shift the junior secondary to go to the current secondary schools because already they have facilities so that those facilities then can help them you had somebody saying that we can now have them to go to local established secondary schools the current local secondary schools i want to tell you my sister that they haven't seen those local day schools they don't even have facilities how many kids in are in my i'm using my only because i understand my home yeah i'm using my area that is ibu magamo and that's negator zone how many very equipped secondary schools can accommodate 600 young ones moving from from grade six to junior secondary that those schools six secondary schools in my zone can accommodate it would be very difficult so so so then if they were saying now let's move them to go the assuming we are going to the whole way the way it was but we we we maintain the the thinking and the philosophy of cpc we take them those second schools they will be much much far better than what we are doing now i'm seeing my young ones in the village they don't know anything about science the only thing they know is they were taught how to make better as we were doing these things planting beans in a closed place in an open place and then we were able to tell that this is an experiment now if you go to our schools even stuffing itself you know look at cpc like in my school monger primary there's only one teacher one teacher teaching how many subjects they're around 14 yeah then when the when the government saw the numbers are too many they are saying now they have reduced they reduce them to around nine or eight so even if you reduce the city the same one person and this person is not of science it is a kiswahiri a geography a trained teacher because the two teaching subjects at the university where i teach those two subjects either maths uh geography or you find somebody religion history and you are telling this person that you can teach biology and you never trained biology in your higher level you only use your phone for training the four years you are in high school to teach the young ones is a mix of things that the really the ministry needs to sit down and between now before we get to the final stage of cpc we'll be able to have solve this problem we rushed into it it is a no idea it's out well one teacher i'm not lying one teacher you go to a school called monara one teacher another school in my village there one teacher and is managing the entire cpc junior primary junior school which is difficult so we are losing we will use scientists that i guess who are naturally clever in the village and then rely on those of us god has blessed us to our one young ones to be in towns and cities go to private schools where there are batteries then we'll have an embarrassing society exactly yes so something that's meant for good might actually not be good for for the ones that are less privileged at least and there's also the issue of our digital divide when we're speaking about cbc we're also talking about innovation and you know you've talked about those that are interested in joining in doing stem courses then they're not so privileged because they don't even have the labs so with event stem just the previous interview that i was doing we're talking about the integration of ai and stem you know ai's technology so how are these children in these villages in these remote areas you know accessing the internet how are they um getting to learn about technology like the students that are the pupils that are in you know in the cities there's no internet in the village they said the government of the day said they were to put hotspots in the given points within the the the counties yeah to this hour it's not nothing has been done if it is not there now and already we have moved to grade eight they have already missed in grade seven they are now missing in grade grade eight amidst these challenges of staffing it is not there the only area they can get internet is in maybe your phone i look at my own kids in the town where i am they are given assignments you go and they are printing their computer you get the information they've been given go and search about mammals for example go and search about uh plants and when you search about they say now print and bring it to us but you see the problem that happens is you print i am able to print even at night i can walk to the cyber print and take it to my young ones i may have a wi-fi in my house but i'm looking at in in broader view a majority of these Kenyans where they will get the internet and the computer facilities tell me where jipaprik school is even this in Nairobi that has a computer laboratory there is none so so we it's like people talking about building a mansion we can build a mansion we do you hear we discuss about a mansion and build it but we can't we can build in talking but in actual sense we may not have that mansion because it requires a lot of resources that is what is happening now because we seem to say if you who is in the upper city you have taken your kids to to one of the private schools and they are okay you assume that everybody's okay there's a lot of outcry down in the village the internet you are talking about is not there what we are saying about the artificial intelligence and other mode of getting data is not there the only thing that they are able to to do is do you know what is funny is the the the the the physical activities that the kids are taught in my village schools not only three even some government schools in town they are told a class of swimming they go and they swim in the floor and the teachers they show even the teacher is showing them how to swim in the floor you know very unfortunate you see you see what we are doing because that is an area somebody would want later on to move that particular area be an expert and this will regenerate the resources for this person but you have seen the swim you have seen clips walking around people are swimming here in the floor it's a course it's a course it's a test so you are being tested and you are told the faster you crawl in the in the ground the better the faster you are the grade the higher the grade you get now what is what is innovation in the in swimming in the ground nothing there's so that's those are those are just few that we are able to see and many more with the human resource vacant then it means we are not actualizing the dream and the near behind this city perhaps we rushed into it without knowing that it required a lot of resources and interventions you see like now the eight four four is gone i pray that the minister and their team they will be able to come up with the remedial uh uh approaches to help us put it in track so i've given you one example of swimming but uh in towns people go to they pull together go to maybe to a resort and they swim there somebody's training them and they are scored yeah but now in the village they are put outside there the ground even the teacher swims swims in the ground in the floor in the floor so it's very it's very unfortunate and there's an unfair advantage that the people in the city have over the start in the village talking about you've just mentioned uh just concluded eight four four um we can't finish this conversation without speaking about the just released kcp results and yesterday um at the national assembly the members of parliament were debating and complaining basically to the chair of education saying that you know the the result that we are seeing neck is really not giving credible uh you know output from what the public expected from other parents and and the people interested them with because there are a lot of anomalies there's a lot you know of unfairness just judging from the outcome of the exact results some people received um results for sign language instead of swahili we had others school school who had same grades the whole 75 thousand five years exactly so that's an abnormality it's not it's not something that normally happens so what should be done should we call for uh remarking should we call for re-examination you know or should we just let them proceed with those results what happens to those that feel that they have been you know um you know um treated wrongly by this okay my one opinion is uh it has never happened of all the years have been around we have never had such a serious happening i want them to treat this as they treated those who are cheating in exams we saw police and the many people running around we need to see police now running around the the the neck offices there exactly so that they be able to get who best this you saw like schools from my village a giant international school getting students from all over police who are running everywhere they have stolen they are also stolen yeah they have stolen the fairness and justice for the kenyan child and this are just children yeah they they don't know anything these children they have done their exams fairly what my own opinion is number one the the the the chair of the the academic committee i mean the chair for the committee of education in the parliament they need to dig deeper before they even make judgment of what is to be done they need to dig deeper and find out why this happened to a school like this one of kitangera a school that we have been seeing performing very well yeah and then they end up getting the very best student is 308 imagine it doesn't make sense it doesn't make any sense so and why why were they rushing who was chasing them to release this we have been around christmas is not yet here who told them who told them the parents who who had a child in in in grade in standard eight had not prepared for secondary you know you cannot charge begin charging me saying now we release now so that they begin preparing and you release wrong results you're a disadvantage in these other kenyans the only thing that is required of them is to relook at the scripts for those specific interested parties they affected students and be able to give it another thought alternatively because it has been affected we may not even be a hundred percent comfortable that the result that has been released is for these other kenyans there would be somebody who did puari and is at the top there's somebody who did very well and has been put down there so what is there is they need to have a committee to thoroughly review this and stop anything about going to do the admissions and now they want to and choose who goes where because already is disputed and the courts have pronounced themselves they need to stop they need to look for a committee audit the entire results and then be able to give it out even us in the university when things happen and they are not properly done we have external examiners who are able to look at it was there a second a second eye that look at these scripts that were marked why rush and it is something that is going to affect a big number of of of the rest of i mean of a team that moved as a block and then you disadvantage the ones who was preparing like that young guy from i saw from from from kitengera she said she was dreaming of going to mary hill and once she called it's not agreed and when they checked the record the guy has been doing very well and prepared you know somebody's thinking how can i get the best and get to the best group then here you are giving them everybody even if various giving them 75 percent so i think there is a serial audit that is required that's the first thing a committee people they are even caught to to to push the the neck to do an audit and give a report and and if they whatever it is is fair then the next phase of admission to start but we wronged them because they were in such a hurry speed is like somebody was going for as a particular leave or somebody was leaving this country or the examiners were all the machinists were were expiring i think they were in a hurry for no good reason because now they are put even i'm sure those young ones seated somewhere psychologically i don't know we'll be able to manage them so i think what is required of of of the government and of the our people in the parliament is to give it a fair a process so that everybody is satisfied that's how i i myself i would be able to to support okay i think that's fair enough because you know it will be just good for for the class eight can it is the one so sad and this being the last eight for four exam to to live in peace and just know that justice justice is done justice can be done indeed all right moving now from there to now how the students are received in the university from from high school we know you know most people know about the transition but now to high school to not not to high school okay to high school and then to university yes tell us about it yeah thank you very much i think when students are moving from high school to university particularly now we have several the ones the students who did from four they're in the village when they moved to the university they also have other challenges the social life challenges because we have experience when the students moved to the university yes they get there and if they were not properly guided when they were still in those formative stage that is in from one to from four then they see new things they are they have more freedom than the freedom that they had in secondary and the primary because they were watched at the university we leave them do what they want there is no timetable there's no better to ring there is nothing there's nobody telling them what this way it is memos like memos you get to the north spot and they get to your emails get to your the web page you'll be able to get communication and this freedom is what has affected our young people yeah why am i saying this because you find in first year and second year we have high cases of young ones getting pregnant you find in first year and second year drugs are more abused it's because you know that you know you get somewhere and you're told this is the first time you are free you are cooking for yourself you can work the way you want nobody is going to say by nine you need to be in my house everything is free they end up messing up and we lose these young ones in first year and second year because they lacked proper guidance they even end up failing in their courses and when they fail their courses sometimes they are sent home to come with their their parents the dean of students will handle the matter sometimes they are put on a notice that you are not doing any better why is because when you came the first year second year you found the environment is free so what does this then mean to us it means that as we have now the candidates waiting for the results and possibly proceeding to university as parents we need to begin now talking to our young ones give them an opportunity and make them read us in your house give them opportunity so that they see they have grown from childhood to youths now they can make their decisions allow them to mingle with the rest of the people the good people of course and then allow them even to participate in community activities and by mixing like that it will make them when they go to the to the university they become a bit responsible yeah they even do manual work do do uh kibarua here and there be able to even go to church choirs and seeing there it's not this is not the time to send them to go to their relatives in the village yeah because the relatives in the village in the city they may care less and leave these young ones end up misbehaving you see our society so evil so at the end of the day we end up losing them so this gap of these people misbehaving in their first and second year in the university going into drugs morally they are not okay even their dress code is not there is not the barate because they were they were wearing well when they were in a in a high school it is because of lack of these discussions freeing us between the parents and these young ones and that's why we want when they are at home like now the parents need to really involve in discussing and giving them what there is in the society out there what is it expected of them so that they maintain that culture and when they get to the university even if they were left alone they will be able to control themselves that's why I say in admission they look innocent the first year first one two three months when they intermingle with others they now want to dress differently behave like them they've found some new freedom a new freedom they have never had they now they find another another boyfriend that the first year and you're a first year would never marry you it is only somebody who somewhere maybe was cleared the university would marry these these girls who are in first year they end up messing themselves and when they have another kid the gentleman disappears and then now you if you want if you walk to our universities i'm telling you that's where we have high cases of people committing suicide it's because of the situation i'm telling you because i am there i cannot test that i remember like one year we saw like 30 girls they are pregnant 30 girls look at that their parents are so good so faithful invested from from from from from nursery to from four only to be surprised in the first two months of university so so so that is what is expected of us more talking and giving these people freedom with the responsibility trying to ensure that they are responsible giving them opportunities to intermingle with us so that when they get to the university it's not a girl's university it's a mixed university maybe somebody was in bangan girls now he has gone to university in Nairobi and everybody is a mixture for everybody now that excitement you end up messing and one is find another boy who has come from mango then they become friends then that friendship ends into tears into tears yes okay it's very telling of you know how raise how the parents have been raising kids if you know if we're getting such numbers that the university getting pregnant so as you've said it's freedom with responsibility that they need to to at least raise the parent them with and before we finish this you uh you were talking about um you know how media really um sort of shows the the glory you know the people that have passed and forget those that have failed i don't know how you'd expect us to to have it otherwise and why you know uh we we tended to praise give honor like the the ones who top in this republic kcp or kcc is coming it's also will be out so i hope they will not have the message like the one we have hopefully once it is out the media looks for the top of the top every media house they would want to discuss with the with this best performing child they forget that there is one who also tried his best and he got 199 um and he got 100 we've praised grades more than what will be the resultant outcome of this person so that's why when we look at what is happening a young one seated in the watching now in this program and seeing somebody who who got good grades you know morally this guy is affected let me tell you i think i shared with you about success success is not about an a success is about you as a person it's like the cloth that we are wearing all of us if i moved this underwear this inside out it will still remain to be what a cloth so what happens is the the grade in this person as as given knowledge the person has gotten knowledge but we're using the knowledge that we have given in writing we have forgotten that there are other areas this person can succeed the memory few years few years back a child who's got 100 and 140 some years back when the honor of matthiang was the minister for education um i'm glad for that media house that traced this young one they were able to show the max that girl is called and the great the guy's called at phone four two different varying environment the primary environment was different second was different that young girl scored a b plus look at that so if if ad we then talked to these people like i've told you about the cpc city and the village where where village the areas they cannot do and areas in town people can do we we would have missed this young we would have used this young one to encourage others we are not saying that everybody to fail so that they are brought here we are simply saying that we give them an opportunity there would be something better they want to do you realize even the top performing somebody would come in and tell you i want to be a pirate i want to be these i want and if you trace them after from for you be surprised at some point they are not there and you find somebody completely different who is now a champion at at at phone four doing very well and possibly never got it was not the top student we praise them for the hard work but we need also you media to also give it an opportunity for for those somebody like now in in in an area interior like true cannot was gotten a hundred marks and he's put to an environment that is so good you'll find them also doing doing better so what we are saying is let's give them an opportunity failure is not failure it is just success that is turned inside out and when you realize that at this point it has been turned upside down or inside out then you you you reaver with yourself you know these young ones they may reaver with themselves and when they go out there they get good energies why have you never asked yourself that when somebody failed in the first attempt he comes the second attempt is the top child and in the first is you never interviewed him or how when he had the lowest max he was when he was in his lowest okay i am getting your argument there that you know there's hope in this one that the story turns out different when they get to the high learning and it serves as a good example to to show it to the others so maybe it's something we can we can try out this time hopefully uh we'll have a different story to tell all right so now as we come to a close on this what what advice do you want to give um a youth out there or a teenager who's sat for the exam class eight exam or anything that you'd want to say really and maybe your social handles if someone wants to reach out to you this is your camera okay thank you very much i think we have discussed yeah but what i want to tell our youths out there uh responsibility helps one to succeed in his career path and if you become more honest and add working the things you are doing you probably succeed parents back at home give your young ones an opportunity to work give them an opportunity to read even to manage your house and when they manage your house they become more responsible give them an opportunity to integrate with responsible people so that when they move to the higher level they are a bit responsible and they be able to succeed you know if you read free feelings for that thing he talks about you can do all things through him who gives you strength so jesus gives you strength so what is required of us is if you have cleared your whole level and you are at home you have college you are at home whatever comes your way do it don't say you are a professional accountant or say you are a medic do it and and whatever money comes from there where you want to buy something it's not going to tell you that uh you got this money from from cleaning the toilet or going to somebody's garden or washing clothes it is money and it will help you proceed to the next level so what we would want to urge the government is a fairness like now the recent kcp and of course look at the policy implementation of the cpc we are crying down there nothing we call career path we believe once the authority sits down and looks at the resources don't send a seary teacher i used to be teacher to one of the schools that is approved to be a cpc center and then end up asking the teacher to teach biology and they never trained in biology alternatively merge these schools and give them cpc center registration so that we have very few schools as much as they may have many many kids but they have the equipment to really realize the vision and the mission of this cpc program i think uh to that end uh i'm happy that uh we will continue having this conversation around academics career and youth empowerment so that we we build our own uh resources within the republic and without so that we'll be able to change our thinking and our resource in our public thank you okay thank you very much uh especially for the insightful um you know uh no lasers you've given us you know and your perspective on the education system in kenya and what we need to do um we hope to have you next time thank you govern board that has been uh dr kennedy in tabo t so currently serves as a senior lecturer and head of department of business administration um or management science in the school of business arts coitellel samoy university college this is a constituent college of the university of narobi i do hope that you've taken something from this particular interview and thank you for staying with us throughout the show it's been amazing thank you we always appreciate your company all right now we're going to uh have you enjoy the music that's there remember you can always interact with us i try to for a full channel the hashtag today is there's the vibes or if you like why in the morning my personal handle is at stefania yet and we also have at grasha mainghi talk to us follow us uh see you tomorrow have a great day i had enjoyed the rest of your viewing