 The next talk is the untold story of Edward Snowden's escape from Hong Kong and how you can help the refugees who saved his life. And we have three speakers today. This talk, Lena Rohrbach, is for Amnesty International Germany's expert on human rights and the digital age and a moral philosopher by training. Then we have Söhnke Iversen, he's head of the investigative research unit at Handelsblatt, his specialty uncovering corruption, fraud and gross mismanagement. And finally Robert Thibault, he is a human rights lawyer in Hong Kong and incidentally one of Edward Snowden's lawyers and is still in contact with him today. And this is your stage and please give a warm round of applause to all three of those. Thank you. Hi everyone. Can you hear me? Very good. Hi, my name is Lena and I work for Amnesty International in Germany where I cover human rights in the digital age, we're still figuring out what exactly that means, but it includes issues of freedom of speech and information online and the human right to privacy, which is being undermined by mass and targeted surveillance and lots of other human rights which are threatened or strengthened by the increasing use of ICT, usually it's both at the same time. At Amnesty we're also part of the campaign to pardon Snowden, which I'm going to tell you about today. Tonight you're first going to hear about Snowden and his current situation in Russia and then about his escape from Hong Kong and how to help the refugees who saved him. And I'm really happy to see many people here interested in this talk because I think there's a fascinating story to be told later, unfortunately not my part of the talk, but theirs. And I believe it is an important story to tell, especially in these times with the ongoing debate on refugees and asylum, where refugees are often portrayed as an anonymous mass, more the object of political decisions than actors of change, which themselves of course they also are. But before we come to that, let's start with the Snowden situation first. As you all know, Snowden shared US intelligence documents with journalists in summer 2016 and Hong Kong, which revealed the shocking extent of global mass surveillance. Snowden claimed that their sole motive for this was, and I quote his own words, to inform the public as to that which is done in their name and that which is done against them. But the US government branded him a traitor, who as they say, has significantly harmed US national security interests. So here's his current situation. After fleeing Hong Kong, he was stuck in transit at the Moscow airport until he was granted a temporary right to remain in Russia. US authorities revoked his passport, which interferes with his ability to travel to other countries and to apply for asylum in a country of his choosing. There have been several offers among them Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua. He's been granted residency in Russia until August 2017. After that it could be extended or not there's no way to know yet. So why doesn't he just return to the US? At least President Obama seems to think that this is what he should do. Sorry, this is not true. OK, so we don't have phone and electricity. I'm very sorry about that. Can someone help me with that? I was going to show you a video and I believe that for environmental reasons you shouldn't give up on your old computers too early. So I'm still using my eight year old MacBook and its batteries broken because as you all know, they have a problem with the batteries. That's a short intermission. Nice, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Very good. Thanks for giving me such a great cue. Why stop now? So the computer is rebooting now. I'm sorry, the computer is rebooting as I said. It's a pretty old one. There's something you can do while I'm waiting for it to reboot besides singing, which is great and very good. There are pants and papers next to the microphones one to six and you can just hand them out if you're sitting next to it. Just share them with others around you. So one has a pen and paper. It's just one paper. I see the spreading is commencing. That is nice. I hope you all are familiar with the six to one rule. Yes? Yes? No, six hours of sleep, two meals and one shower? Not every day. Every day. Of all three days. Who followed that? Hands in the air, please. And everybody who did not follow that knows why he's not or she's not raising the hands, right? Some people joked about this. Six hours a day. That is quite a lot. One meal and only two hours of sleep. I'm exhausted already. Oh, there's lights flashing. And I hope now this is going well. We'll take a few moments. You're doing a great job. He's doing a really great job. Thank you very much. That is actually quite nice when such thing is happening. I like your... So this is a picture I took in South Africa at a memorial for apartheid and the fight against apartheid. I thought it was a pretty war. South Africa, definitely. That was my first thought also. Sorry. I don't want to make fun of your really, really... That's really your doing great job. Sorry, guys. No, there's no stress. I think we have... No, we will keep a tight schedule. I know when I make loose comments about this is the last talk and then there's a big break, I will be slaughtered afterwards or at least beaten into a dark corner or something or drowned in chunk or something. Which would not be that bad, actually. Not drowning. But... Well, the... I could show resistance at the first... Don't go there, I think. Right? Another thing is I think we have not only those three around here. So far I can give you hints who's also maybe attending the thing. Some of you maybe have recognized that there's a little bit more going on at this corner where we have set up all the technical stuff and that there's some new equipment arrived from another room. But that is enough hints, I think. For the most of you. I'm hypnotized by these pieces of wood or is it actually rock? Another joke. So when somebody is able to articulate then you have way too much processing power in your brain left, so let's do teaser. So everybody silently in your head think of a number between one and ten. Not telling that the other guy silently. And then multiply it by nine, please. And when you have the result add up the single digit so when you have 23 you add 2 plus 3 is 5 like that, okay? Then you divide 5. You got that? Okay, when you... No, not divide 5, subtract 5. I'm sorry, subtract 5. Not divide by 5, subtract 5. I'm sorry. And now you count through the alphabet. When you have a 1, you take a 2B, 3C, 4D, 5E and so on and so forth. And now this letter you have with your result in your head silently search for a country starting with that letter which has a border with Germany and a fruit. Denmark and dates or Dutch and dragon fruit. No? Maybe I give away the secret about this. I think Obama wants to talk, yes? Yeah, possibly he doesn't want to talk. He just wants to look a little grumpy and I think that's because he knows that what he's going to say is not going to resonate well with you. For good reasons. I'm sorry. We had this copy wrongs 2.0 just about two hours ago in this hall. Maybe you want to give a summarize of what he's saying. Yeah, probably. When we can't pursue him to speak up or on. Yeah, the problem is that I have more videos on here. So I'm terribly sorry about that. If I had a worst case scenario how this would go it would be my computer without electricity for a few seconds. And I guess we should just change and I'll do my part later. And you do your parts first. I'm so sorry about that. Okay. Okay, that works. Sorry. Nice. Uh, Julian? That thing does. No, the... No, the... The trigger to flip it. What's that on? No, it's not working. You have to adjust it. It doesn't start? It doesn't start. Don't you really like to adjust it? Oh, now it starts. Okay. Good evening. Thank you for coming. My name is Zönke Iversen and I'm an investigative journalist at Handelsblatt, which is for those who are not from here. I'm from here. I was born in Hamburg. Spent most of my life here. And then I went out into the world. Now I'm at Handelsblatt, which is like the German Financial Times. The Wall Street Journal. We founded at Handelsblatt an investigative research unit which is like the spotlight team of Germany, of my paper at least. And so we cover mismanagement, fraud, corruption. Sometimes when we do well, people go to jail. And about a year ago, I came across the story of Edward Snowden that nobody had heard before. And I was surprised because I thought Edward Snowden, everything is told. The whole world media has covered it. But actually, there was a big part missing. And I would like to tell you today about that part and about the people who saved Edward Snowden's life and who have for three years remained completely silent on that. Many people have taken credit in the Snowden story. I will not name any names now. But those who actually saved his life when he came out and told the world about the mass surveillance, they have remained silent and they're in big trouble. So most of you, I assume, have seen this movie, Citizen 4. It's a very good movie and again, you would assume that the documentary about Snowden, how Snowden came who he was and told the world about it would also tell everything there is to know about him. But again, there's a scene missing. And two weeks are missing. If you remember, there's a scene right after the morning after he gave his interview with the Guardian. You see him in his hotel room, room 1014 and he's kind of walking around. There's a scene, he's looking in the mirror thinking of how can I reshape my face or dye my hair cut my hair, put on sunglasses. He's holding a mirror at one point an umbrella and then the phone rings and he's talking to somebody and he's saying, okay, all right, are you sure? Because I can grab my stuff and I can just get out and you don't hear the other side of the conversation. But actually the man on the other side of that telephone we will very soon hear from him and then you see him hanging up the phone and he's just standing there and you see him saying and I thought to myself why is he just standing there? This man is now sought after, the police is chasing him, the NSA is chasing him, the CIA everybody's chasing my colleagues, hundreds of journalists at that time and he's flooding into Kowloon in Hong Kong to search for Edward Snowden and he's just standing there not moving and then the next thing you see is the door opens he's getting out of the hotel and the next scene in Citizen 4 is actually two weeks later Citizen 4 does not show Edward Snowden hit in Hong Kong for two weeks before he bought an airplane to Moscow where he still is today so how did he do that? and I would like to welcome now to the stage the man who hit Edward Snowden for two weeks when the whole world was chasing him so obviously the most the easiest question for me is where were you on that Monday morning 10th 2013 when Edward Snowden became the most wanted man alive that was on June the 10th and for a period of time as everyone knows there was an unknown employee of the US government who was leaking information about the US government's spy it was about 6am and my phone rang and I was tired on Monday morning and I answered the phone and on the other side of the phone was a request for help and it was explained to me it was Mr. Snowden and that he had a video of him in an interview with the Guardian Glenn Greenwald had been televised so at that point I jumped out of bed showered put my suit on, grabbed my briefcase and got in my car and drove to the ferry pier I live on an outer island and that was the fastest way to get to Hong Kong Island on a high speed ferry so you can see Lantau Island and there's a high speed ferry that goes across to Hong Kong Island so time was of the essence as a lawyer the approach I took was there was a man who was in immediate distress and I also understood that he was the most wanted man on the planet at that point so it was crucial that I had access to him as soon as possible yeah so my job was very easy how do you hide the most wanted man alive where do you hide it what was going through your mind at that time the first thing I needed to do was gain access to Ed and in Hong Kong I had a solicitor with me so the first thing we had to do is because what he had done in my view was an act of political opinion expression so we had to get him to the UNHCR office in Hong Kong immediately so he could raise his asylum claim and this was the first line of defense if Mr Snowden was arrested at any time it was his refugee claim that would protect him from being removed from Hong Kong we did that we walked him into the UNHCR so in the film Citizen Four you see my colleague Jonathan Mann a solicitor and I'm on the phone with Mr Snowden basically and I told him don't worry Jonathan Mann knows where to take you and we're going to the UNHCR so once we Mr Snowden raised his claim at the UNHCR for refugee status determination then the next step was we had to bring Mr Snowden underground put him underground and take him off the radar and we were concerned that the media would find Mr Snowden and if the media found Mr Snowden then the Hong Kong authorities would find Mr Snowden there's a US consulate in Hong Kong they would know where he was so one of our biggest fears was the US government or third government would grab Mr Snowden and unlawfully rendition him Mr Snowden would disappear the approach I took was Mr Snowden was an asylum seeker at that point a refugee and I have many many clients who are refugees so it just made sense to place him within the refugee community he was part of that community the second reason is Hong Kong asylum seekers are so marginalized they're considered Hong Kong's version of untouchables they're the most reviled social group in Hong Kong so to place Mr Snowden a man of his intelligence, status his experience with the US government and to place him in with the refugee community in Hong Kong mainly people from South Asia or Southeast Asia the last place the world would look so immediately after the UNHCR we took Mr Snowden to stay with one of three refugee families the second crucial reason aspect of this is we wanted I wanted Mr Snowden to be placed in the middle of the city no one would expect Mr Snowden to be hidden and played in sight and the third reason was we wanted Mr Snowden to have access to wireless communications where he could crack into any modem within the area so we placed him with a group of asylum seekers three families and through that process Mr Snowden was sheltered and he was taken care of so now we will introduce the people in Hong Kong the refugees who hate Snowden and we have pictures of them who is this? now this is one of my clients this is Mr Ajith Pushpa Kamara and he's a former soldier in the Sri Lankan Army he's Ethnics in Leeds it's about a former life in Ajith's life this is 20 years ago and Ajith is an extraordinary individual he was tortured there was an attempt to extra judicially kill him and in the end he fled Sri Lanka and I chose Ajith to help Mr Snowden Ajith has an extraordinary ability to move around undetected and to move people around he has an extraordinary skill set and you don't know when he's there you don't know when he's not there just an extraordinary man so he was the one individual that I trusted to help us move Mr Snowden around so now you know while the NSA and everybody else in the world was looking for him this was the man who protected him the sad part of this story is Ajith has been an asylum seeker for 12 years now he fled after being tortured in Sri Lanka tortured by the military he fled and his asylum is still in progress so to speak and I think we have another picture this is where Ajith lives at this time it's about 50 square feet there's no windows and one thing I'd like to stress is that in Hong Kong asylum seekers are not allowed to work the government does not meet their basic needs and if they're caught working they face two years prison so Mr Ajith has been in Hong Kong and the Hong Kong government has left him destitute and the way they've treated this man as with the other two families amounts to a violation of article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights treating him in an inhumane and degrading manner nevertheless Ajith has survived in Hong Kong and the other aspect another reason why I reached out to my asylum seeker clients is the asylum seekers all fled their home countries running for their lives and when they met Mr. Snowden they saw Mr. Snowden as one of their own when they fled they had to rely and trust and put their hands into other people's lives who helped them escape their home countries the asylum seekers have the highest propensity to protect others and that was the foundation upon which I knew I could trust my clients and when asked they stepped forward and they said yes we recognize him we want to help him it's an amazing experience I met Ajith six months ago and when I asked him why did you help Edward Snowden I mean you had enough problems on your own and this was a man who was sought after by the most powerful nation and military and intelligence service on earth and the only thing he said of course I helped him he was a refugee I was a refugee of course I helped him and this is the next set of hosts for Mr. Snowden now this is the second family the gentleman here is Sopun Kelapata and that's his partner Nadeeka Sopun is Sri Lankan and he fled Sri Lanka based on political persecution and his partner Nadeeka she fled Sri Lanka based on gender persecution and very typical in a country like Sri Lanka gender persecution involves unfortunately rape and human trafficking and at times servitude and slavery so these two extraordinary individuals fled to Hong Kong Sopun more than 10 years ago Nadeeka more than 7 years ago and both of their children were born in Hong Kong and one thing I would stress is the two children are stateless they have no nationality and the Hong Kong government by law refuses to give them any status in Hong Kong this is the place where they live and right now the Hong Kong government has not provided the support for the young girl Sopun B and she's not receiving an education in Hong Kong but I'll move on to another subject later on what we've been doing as lawyers to help these families to make sure they're not destitute at this time we have another picture when this is where they live so they live in literally one of the poorest areas of Hong Kong and they live in a flat that's about 150 square feet the other thing I would like to mention is that the screening system for asylum seekers in Hong Kong is so grossly unfair that the acceptance rate since 1992 in Hong Kong for asylum seekers is 0.36% so effectively all asylum seekers who seek refuge in Hong Kong are rejected and the three families I'm representing they're looking at their cases being rejected simply because the system is so grossly unfair yeah so that's them and this is the fourth refugee who sheltered Edward Snowden and incidentally baked him a birthday cake for his 30th birthday and her daughter which you will see in a moment sang a happy birthday song to Edward Snowden this is Vanessa she's from the Philippines she was a victim of gender persecution and she fled to Hong Kong and she's the fourth adult or the third family that provided shelter to Mr. Snowden yeah that's her daughter this is her daughter Kiana and one thing I would mention is that since their identities were revealed to the public the Hong Kong government has targeted Vanessa and her child and has asked her questions about Mr. Snowden and when she refused to answer those questions the government cut off all assistance to her so she gets no assistance for food or rent or education for her daughter they cut her off completely simply because she refused to answer questions about Mr. Snowden yes that's you and her it's me so I visited these families in summer and shortly before the movie Oliver Stone came out we published the full story in my paper at Handelsblatt and well good and bad things happened there was an outpouring of helpfulness I got a lot of calls and emails from around the world to donate to these families and there's a movie and of course I wasn't set up for that because journalists don't usually get calls for donations so we set up we have that that is also in summer this was in July this year I traveled to see Mr. Snowden in Moscow shortly before the film Snowden came out but it was at that time I had discussed with Mr. Snowden the situation of the three families because they were portrayed in the Snowden film and the decision was taken and the clients were advised to protect them it would be better to introduce them to the public before the film came out so that the public would have a very clear idea and clear understanding of who they are what they did for Mr. Snowden basically to make sure the public understood and they understood them as human beings and Mr. Snowden was in full support of that and Mr. Snowden was very concerned for my clients and he's also assisted them financially but what we've done is we've set up a GoFundMe crowdfunding campaign you will have the site that's that's the website to collect even Snowden that the thing is why did we print this article well first it was a story untold for three years these people have remained quiet because that's what they all agreed on Snowden and the refugees and then the movie comes out if you see the Snowden movie of Oliver Stone it's an exciting movie but the people who actually saved his life have about 60 seconds of screen time if you see the movie it's just a brown mass of helpful people and then they are gone again so I thought it would be really good to tell the full story and Snowden himself actually was surprised when you told him he had no idea that these people who saved his life were still in the same place where they were three years ago he was asking why are they still refugees and actually that's a good question the answer is the Hong Kong government will not let them leave they will not let them stay they will not let them work they are just staying in this miserable presence and so this website GoFundMe was set up because so many people wanted to help and you can see somewhere on this site it's like on this website seven or eight hundred people have donated and well that's a good thing that happened the bad thing was that the Hong Kong government actually cut these donations they cut off the service the money to the families that they received and so this is actually almost the only thing they have donations and well now there's new hope there's a second website and it's like this is a fundraiser page maybe you want to talk about the lawyers to get these people to a better place well with the GoFundMe page we've been able to take those financial resources and distribute them to the three families in Hong Kong so that their basic needs are met and this has provided them with a lot of emotional security and certainty in their lives at this time three lawyers I'm from Montreal, Quebec originally and I've been working with three lawyers that I know the three lawyers in Montreal have set up a fundraiser campaign and they're also making efforts to communicate with the Canadian government to advocate for Canada to take in the three families these are seven people and it's not a big stretch for the Canadian government to take them in the Canadian GoFundMe the fundraiser site has recently raised more money and again this is the second channel which is Canadian based and Canadian focused where we're trying to raise more funds for the families so we can sustain them in Hong Kong but we do have a view that the Canadian government should take steps to bring them into Canada not to set a precedent seven extraordinary people protected a whistleblower some of the difficulties we're facing are that a lot of people don't want to donate for fear that the US government would see that they've made donations to these three families these three families are innocent they've done nothing wrong when they helped Mr. Snowden they did it in good faith and they never broke any laws one thing I want to stress is when Mr. Snowden was in Hong Kong at no time was he a fugitive under Hong Kong law the US government never sent through a legally effective request for his arrest and extradition so these people need they need support they need moral support, they need public support and they need some financial support for help and I would ask everybody here to communicate to whoever you know to have the public become aware of who these people are and no matter how small the donation every euro every dollar counts yes, thank you so if everybody in here not donate immediately but I know you all if you have phones in your pockets if you have Twitter and Facebook and all that that would be really nice and we're going to try now to connect to Skype with one of the refugees she's still at home awake now it's as well past midnight but we're going to try to Skype her in so you also may ask some questions hopefully this will work it'll be my client Vanessa from the Philippines so while yeah just kidding here we go no that's not her we don't know who that is no can we try again yes so while we are waiting this all took a little longer than expected and due to my computer problems we just had a discussion I could either do my part of the talk and I would have told you about her current situation how to help him about legal cruelties like the Espionage Act World War I he's being charged under and so on I hope it would have been interesting but I thought that with a little time remaining it would be more important to give the people who helped him and her refugees in Hong Kong a voice than Amnesty International and me so I'm going to skip that part so you can have an Q&A with her and thank you anyway sorry about that yeah well I think we can have a question in between maybe if there's a I don't know how that works is there somebody going around with a microphone or should we start with a Q&A yeah so we try the technical difficulties never end this should have a name is there a Murphy or something yeah okay so I think we can start with a Q&A for three speakers so please when you have a question start to line up at the microphones we have here throughout the room four on the left side and four on the right side on the balcony we have also one and I start with the single signal angel not single angel sorry okay just hold it maybe we have a connection please signal angel give me the question we had some discussion in IRC about your fundraising platform because the pricing they keep quite a big share of 20% why is choosing this platform question the end of the question was yes fundraiser go find me there's really really not much option for us the the one thing I have to stress is the only the only groups taking any money from donations are the fundraising I guess the platform or PayPal and the banks but as for those who are actually administering this and the three lawyers who formed an NGO in Montreal and myself in Hong Kong 100% of the money we receive is distributed to the clients we don't take one penny for legal fees we don't take one penny for administrative fees and actually ourselves we pay for the banking fees so sorry well that's what we've I think what you can see here that not everyone involved in human rights work is as tech savvy as everyone here so if you want to talk to us later about that I guess I'll be very welcome just just as a previous chemical engineer I'm a little bit tech savvy and the second thing is the three lawyers in Montreal have set up a Bitcoin account so you can donate to fundraiser go on to the site and there's information on how to donate through Bitcoin so my apologies for not raising that what we did is Mr. Snowden tweeted the fundraiser account on Christmas Eve and it was at that time people were commenting saying hey can we do by Bitcoin so we did that immediately so I hope that answers the question so I think we switch over to welcome our new guest now on the stage you can look directly at her at the camera when you look at that direction you look at her actually virtually can you hear me yes hi good evening so Vanessa you see you have a lot of fans in Hamburg thank you maybe if you would just describe say your first five minutes when you met Edward Snowden how was that I think everybody would like to hear that from you now when the first time I met Mr. Snowden I don't know who is Mr. Snowden I'm very he's very upset and the time he needs help to stay my home and my lawyer Mr. Tebow and Jonathan Mann knocked on my door so I didn't think twice to let him in my house and I'm very happy and I help Edward Snowden and I'm very thankful to my lawyer Mr. Robert Tebow and because he have 60 clients asylum seekers and he trusted me to let Mr. Snowden stay in my house and I'm very also thankful for Edward Snowden because he appreciated what I did for him thank you okay yes now your turn who would like to ask a question to Snowden's guardian angel in Hong Kong we have the great opportunity to take questions from the audience or from the signal angel so when you have any question please step up to the microphone or do we have something from the signal angel hello signal angel didn't want to ask a question maybe then when there is not yet a question or not the courage to ask one I would like to ask you a question how is your situation now when you look back on meeting Edward Snowden and what your experience and how do you feel now how is your situation changed maybe by that to get involved with this thing that hit you out of nowhere situation okay my situation right now is I have a difficult in the Hong Kong government and about my assistance in ISS Hong Kong and ISS already stopped my assistance so I don't have any assistance right now I only have from donations and in my case in touch reclaim the Hong Kong government they opened my case just last month and now is activated and I know they want to reject my case and I'm very worried they want me to send back to Philippines and it's not really good for me I'm safe to go back to Philippines so I'm very disappointed and because Hong Kong government is very cruel about me situations they're not understanding about me and my family so I am today I'm very worried thank you thank you so I think we have a question from microphone number seven please go ahead hello I was wondering when did it dawn on you what you had gotten involved in and when did you realize the gravity of the situation like I'm imagining that it would be difficult in the beginning but now with all the aftermath it's been a very big thing so okay like at what point did you realize how big this was I just I realized this is a very big point because now the Hong Kong government is they want especially to my lawyers that in one one of his one of I mean one of his he have one time that immigration want to deal his case for one time for 30 cases in one time so my case and two other families is including so I think it's very difficult to my lawyer and especially with me that because I very afraid they send me to Philippines and now I also don't have any assistance from the Hong Kong government so it's very hard for me to to it's very unfair to me that the Hong Kong government can't rely on my donations so it's very difficult for me right now maybe I can help a little bit with that Vanessa what the question was and of course I has the same thing the night when she met Edward Snowden she did not know who Edward Snowden was it was just a white man in front of a door so she let him in and let him sleep in her bed there's only one bed in the apartment she slept on the floor and the next morning Edward Snowden asked her to please bring a newspaper and well when you bought the newspaper maybe I think that's what the audience wanted to know that's the minute you found out you bought a newspaper and you see just tell that morning your experience when you were looking for the newspaper and what you experienced then Vanessa when was the first time you realized how big the Snowden case was what time did you know okay I just find out when the next morning Edward Snowden told me about the newspaper this is the newspaper this is in June 2013 correct yes in June 2013 and what happened in June 2013 when Edward Snowden stayed at my house he told the next morning he told me that he need the English newspaper so I bought the English newspaper with him and I'm really shocked that the guy who stayed in my home is the most wanted man in the world and because he's in the front page of the newspaper so I'm really shocked that the guy is in my house so what did you do after that what did you think after that I think that I need I need to be careful and my lawyer told me don't tell to anyone that's the first rule and don't let anyone come to my house so I need to be careful because Edward Snowden stayed in my house so I don't let anybody stay in my house and I'm not telling anybody that Edward Snowden stayed in my house did you still want to help Mr. Snowden at that time yes I still want to help Edward Snowden because he don't have place to stay and he needs my help and I think I can do that for him I think we have another question from the audience number 5 back there go ahead hello thank you for everything you've done to Edward Snowden it has been mentioned that you have celebrated his 30th birthday together with your family and something was mentioned about a birthday cake what happened there yeah I received a call and I get the cakes and I don't know at that time his birthday and he asked why I have that cake and he said that Edward Snowden's birthday so I bring the cakes at my house and I told Edward Snowden today is your birthday and he said yes so me and my daughter we sing a song for him and we blow the candles and I told him oh sorry yesterday but we can't take the photos yeah I think we have another question thank you Vanessa a question to you probably you are afraid for your own family after all would you do it again yes microphone to here in the front please ask your questions I'm just going to quickly break the rules that are only questions and there are only questions I want you to thank you not only for giving a home to Mr Snowden which we all did but also for being here tonight and giving a face to a lot of stories I guess that we don't see usually because we did a lot of the first part and this is great because Edward Snowden is of course important and did great stuff but also this other part and for being here tonight is great for us and for me at least thanks I can see your point please questions number four Noel thank you apart from expressing my utmost respect and gratitude I have a question dear Vanessa and to all the other hosts as well do I understand correctly that the government of Hong Kong will not allow you to travel anywhere else but back to your home country is there anything that can be done by governments of other countries individuals of other countries to take you to another place like you're being trapped in Hong Kong and there is no good way out either in Hong Kong or in your home countries definitely what's needed is public support and the public being vocal setting up Facebook social media groups communicating with your local governments there's no reason why for example the Canadian government the German government could not make the political decision seven people seven people out of millions of asylum seekers in the world and to offer them asylum that's all that's needed because they are stuck in limbo in Hong Kong with effectively a zero chance what I'll stress is the Sri Lankans if they're returned to Sri Lanka they will all be arrested at the airport at the prevention of terrorism act they'll be arbitrarily detained and it is certain that some of them will be tortured and the soldier faces a death penalty for Vanessa the new president of the Philippines Duterte has executed extrajudicially 6,000 people the last couple months and he's proposed to set up concentration camps to exterminate 3 million drug addicts in the Philippines these families have been left behind I'm not going to let that happen so it's so through your being aware of this through your capabilities to communicate through social networks, your communities this is really if we could create a groundswell this could put pressure on governments to possibly have them step forward to help those families the fundraiser page the fundraiser page it's written in English and French and it's set out there very clearly what can be done and what's being done in Canada and I have asked my clients where their second choice would be to seek asylum and all of them have talked about Germany the fundraiser page and there's an associated Facebook page with that whatever can be done would be most appreciated and again any funds that can be given to help the families would obviously ensure that they're not left destitute in Hong Kong, thank you very short on time but I think I have the authority to stretch that a little and I want to take understanding that there are quite a lot of long time so from microphone one please I basically wanted to hear from Vanessa because she helped him what kind of help would you appreciate what kind of help can the world or we do to you or give you if the people want to help us I hope and I wish that open your heart donate some money for our fund Razor and GoFundMe page it's a really big help for us and we are hoping to send two families to other countries to start our new life and have a good future in our children thank you I'm getting signs to cut my that they want to do something to me so thanks for your talks and thank you Vanessa for being here and making it it is a great honor for me and a big round of applause for Vanessa