 What visual asset news or Dan for short, my name is Rob and today instead of talking about the news I want to talk about what's going on right now in Celsius and to help me make sense of this because I get confused Especially with the fragmentation of what's going on with the Celsius procedure bank of the future the legal implications So I brought on two people who have been covered this extensively My man here Aaron Bennett and Tiffany Fong. Thank you for guys for coming in Hello, thanks for having us Absolutely, yes, this is gonna be good because again, it's hard to keep things straight. I need help doing such things I know people who are watching this video are the same way. So also as a remember You can find Aaron Bennett's channel around YouTube and Tiffany Fong and her and Aaron's information are in the description You can find the follow them along. They've got some great information and they're the ones that I watch To get the updated version of what's going on. So here's we're gonna go over Just to bring everybody up to speed first things first Let's talk about the chapter 11 that was filed on July 13th or somewhere around there and a quick recap to bring up to what's going on right now Then we're gonna talk about how to check your account when to file a claim and who actually has skin in the game As far as Celsius goes, then we'll talk about the legal issues Grand Cherries of Pina exclusivity and wasted money Then we're going to the meat and potatoes this the Kelvin plan versus the Bank of the Future company for some other type of plan that could potentially make us creditors whole and then lastly The options what how would you guys vote for this the haircut versus Kelvin versus Bank of the future? Which way would you go and this is gonna be an ongoing discussion because let's be honest Nobody really has a concrete answer. So first things first. Let's talk about it. I'm gonna start with you my man Yeah, bring us up to speed. I'll do my best so Lot lots have been going on every day. There's new news. So July Yes, July 13th. They officially declared bankruptcy chapter 11 and Radio silence from then on out. It was a while before we actually heard anything after that and A month prior they had frozen withdrawals. So there's been a lot of just, you know lack of communication and Since then we've just been getting a dribble of information a lot of which Tiffany is covering a lot of leaks a lot of right sparse Communication from Celsius management about you know, here's the council. We've employed these people to help us Oh now we have this thing called the UCC the unsecured creditors committee. What is this? They actually represent us. I mean essentially everybody is getting a crash course in the bankruptcy law peripherally and I'm just along for the ride learning about it and I mean I could keep talking but where we are now it changes every day But a lot we've made a lot of progress. I think in a lot of in a lot of ways Sure Certain yeah, go ahead. I wasn't saying and this this just kind of brings up a speed So like we went through this this whole process now we're trying to figure out who to believe who to trust and where to go and Thankfully, there's been some great information Aaron on your channel. You've really covered extensively what's going on Also with Tiffany with your channel what I mean the things that are astounding to me and this is leaked audio from actual employees Their meetings that they have and it's just and to me like it seems like it's a lot of hubris a lot of pride like We're gonna get out of this because of this one individual. So just real quick speak to that How did this all come about how'd you get this information and what it all kind of bring the light for you? Oh, I think it's delusional. I mean, I'm Barely a youtuber. I started my channel when Celsius shut withdrawals because I had quite a bit of money trapped in the platform And then I just started posting updates and I got contacted by an employee who said that he liked my channel and Wanted to reach out to me and he did begun begin leaking me some information Yeah, and I mean it had been radio silent. So I wasn't even sure that I was going to post it But and I was really scared of the repercussions in terms of Sure lawyers and being sued and many lawyers Strongly warned me not to leak anything But as a creditor, I'm like, we don't know what's happening It had been completely silent and I have something where I see what they're working on this Kelvin plan So I was like, I got it. I got a boost it. So Yeah, I got you. So yeah, I'm just want to say I'm glad you guys are doing the things you're doing because it helps out Everybody, especially the ones that got things that are stuck on there. So great. Now, let's let's dig into it I just want to bring everybody up to speed about how to check, you know, what your account has as far as Celsius When to file a claim and who has skin in the game? So I just want to quickly show this there's a link in the description and it leads us to Stretto if you put in your email address here You can see exactly what the schedule claim would be when there's time to file a claim So real quick Aaron talked to us because you've already gone through this this process talk to us I mean how simple it is but what you found out? Absolutely. So part of what I'm doing on my YouTube station is is going through every single freaking Stretto document that comes through the portal and and one of this and is Exactly an easy way to check your claim Essentially on the site that was just shared you would enter your email address the email address that you filed Or that you use to set up your Celsius account. I believe it has to be case sensitive So I'll lowercase from what I've been hearing and yeah, they'll just send you exactly what should be on your phone inside of your Celsius wallet So if that is accurate You really do not need to do anything if it is inaccurate like it shows you that you owe Or it shows you that You have less crypto than you actually have Then you will file an official claim and we may get to this later in the video But I'll just share it now right now as this video. There is no link There is no proper way to file a claim that have not released that yet So if it's inaccurate, you're just gonna hang tight until Myself or one of us one of us three lets you know that it's live. So No, also apparently if it's disputed Unliquidated or contingent then you might need to file a claim as well But I haven't seen any people have that issue, but that's just what's listed on the Stretto website Gotcha. Yeah. So at least all these people know know now to take a look at that and go Okay, this is correct. That's not correct. So when the information comes out like, okay I got to get on this so everybody who's watched the video make sure that you again link in the description Put your information in there find out what is actually for the balance. So you can say no, no, that's incorrect Or that's correct. Just go forward. Okay. So then the next part is The whole thing with who has skin in the game and I've had Alex on my show numerous times and on one of those shows He explained explicitly who has skin in the game I want everybody to take a listen to this and just to tell me what your thoughts are We'll show you a little bit more. I personally I have over a hundred million dollars personally in the Celsius Wallet Sitting next to if you have money with us. It's sitting next to your money If you have BTC, it's sitting right next to my BTC. You have USDC. It's sitting right next to my USDC. So so So so there was a document that just was leaked or not leaked that was put out by I think it was a Stretto and You can see who the different holders are and The top holder has got 47 million I think that's Aaron and then Simon Dixon is number 21 to 10 million Alex is three number 323 thoughts on this one Tiffany, I mean Chrissy zero dollars appalling as usual Not shocking Yeah, Alex thing he has a hundred million. I Mean, it's a bear market, but we're not down that bad. So Yeah, pretty bad. So We haven't talked yet about a lot of the leaked documents about it's not even well They are leaked by Stretto and leaked by Kirkland and Ellis showing withdrawals so Part of part of what's happened is that the judge in this case wanted complete transparency a little bit too much in my opinion where Every creditor for the last three months it shows their transactions or their withdrawals Insiders that shows an entire year. So how we're getting a lot of this information that is not looking good For a lot of the insiders is it shows withdrawals very close to the bankruptcy petition date or when they froze withdrawals? So I don't know if we wanted to talk about that, but I just wanted to throw that in there that Unlike Voyager, I know a lot of you guys watching possibly in Voyager The judge did not release the same amount of information and there's a we basically all got doxed in a certain way. So oh, yeah, we did. Yeah, I Mean there's pros and cons to it because obviously I feel like a lot was revealed from like being able to see the insiders withdrawals It'd be nice if they just doxed the insiders But I mean if it had to be everyone or nobody that I'm kind of glad that we can at least see their withdrawals Yeah, and that's so that is essentially what has been going on and then to bring us all the way up to the present There's another couple things first of all grandeur is a peanut exclusivity and wasted money before I talk about exclusivity Who wants to take this one to describe what it's what the exclusivity is as it pertains to Celsius in the plan Aaron Tiffany Aaron's an excellent I'll give it a go so from my understanding Celsius had one or still has 120 days from the time of bankruptcy as The exclusive company or entity to file a restructuring plan. Okay, so there's been a lot of back-and-forth about Submitting your claim or not claim submitting your plan to the UCC and right now the only company or the only entity that can do that is Celsius So that limits anybody else that has a plan about hey, this is how we want the chapter 11 restructuring to go to actually submit it Because they can't Exclusivity means they're exclusively. They're the only one second that can basically submit a claim or claim. What am I saying submit a plan? Submit a plan. So so real quick question then so if many have any wanted to they had a plan They want to submit a plan. They can't even submit a plan yet until Celsius as a first correct from my understanding People can submit or I think Simon Dixon mentioned they can submit a plan to like the investment bankers, but it's a different process It's honestly very confusing But ultimately this exclusivity is here a lot of people just want it gone because they realize that Celsius's plan which was leaked by Tiffany in that audio, which we'll get to maybe It's kind of bogus it's kind of ridiculous and This exclusivity just makes it hard for anybody else, you know for things to get moving along Although the UCC did as much as I disliked the Kelvin plan and find it completely unreasonable The UCC did point out that if they were to end exclusivity too soon Then it would just open up the like floodgates for anyone to submit Potentially bogus plans and then they would all have to be evaluated and it could be a circus I remember them using the word circus So I wrote that down, but so there there's some reason to not end it too early But also obviously I am not a fan of the Kelvin plan So there's the pros and cons there. It's a good point because it becomes a circus, right? So then there was there was just a little hearsay Erin you said 120 days Tiffany talked about a circus and there was a question was the extension granted apparently in Some kind of conference the they have not filed the extension yet Celsius just stated in through my concern They they will file for an extension. They will they want to keep going and then to talk about the other legal issues There is a subpoena US Grand Jury subpoena Crypto or Celsius the platform itself and on top of that As far as wasted money, this was put out by Tiffany two and a half million dollars for an 18-day period form Kirkland and Ellis that cost Another three weeks almost a million now whose money is that? That is paying for all this ours Yeah, it is the estate's money, but that is our deposited crypto Okay, David Adler did clarify that that wasn't the total sum that was actually charged to Celsius It was more like 3.1 million and that is 80 percent that needs to be paid immediately. I guess That's what you're talking about here. Okay 80 percent, but immediately that's a lot of money. Yeah, okay Gotcha, so not strato like I was complaining about it is just Kirkland as the ones look Usually the only ones that win in a lawsuit are the one are the lawyers. That's usually how it goes. Gotcha All right, so Let's get into it the plans because we've we brought ourselves here We know there was chapter 11 You know a lot different fallouts a lot of things been going back and forth I don't want to go over the minutia because really nice Tiffany adequately says it is a circus Let's talk about what the plans are so people can start to think about this Not that the plans are able to be voted on but where things are going so the first one Tiffany I'll start with you like this Kelvin plan. This is from Celsius, correct? Yes, so this was The initial audio that I posted that I received from an employee And it was the leaked all-hands meeting where they were discussing the Kelvin's the Kelvin plan Obviously, this was very early stage and was not meant to be publicly heard yet But the gist of the plan and the premise would just be essentially that they want to reopen as a custodial platform with a zero trust security framework and they also mentioned having potentially multi-sig wallets, for example Their general business model or the way they generate revenue would be Transaction fees essentially the same as everyone else and a huge departure from how they used to Out the fact that they charged no transaction fees. So that was that would be a big departure But I guess technically less risky than what they were doing prior but to me Celsius and anything related to Celsius is a little Yeah, so Okay, so before we get to the bank the future, what's the difference so like when I take a look at at different companies I was thinking myself What's the competitive advantage and like, you know, Warren Buff will talk about build a motor on your business So what makes kelvin unique to where it could compete in this market? To me nothing I mean, I'm just like this is absolutely ridiculous But if anyone else has a positive take on this Well, yeah, if I had to if I had to argue their side, uh from that leak document Essentially they would be thinking of themselves as a startup again, but they have still a lot of customers and they have Pardon, that's I think that is the one thing the existing customer base But which I believe they said 90 90 5% may leave But they're saying even if they only keep 5% of their customers That's still a very hardy startup with A management team already there that we can Argue if they're competent and we want them to lead a company in the future But that would be their argument that They have assets, you know, they have mining that could possibly generate some revenue Which I'll get to in simon's plan a little later. They have gk8, which is their custody solution Which is how they would actually Secure customer funds and cold storage using multi-stake and they can generate Revenue from customers locking up their funds like that or keeping their funds safe like that. So That would be their argument there Yeah, I mean even if they were to retain 10 to 15 percent just this business model Being much different than how they previously were saying they were generating profit Which it doesn't seem that they were even generating profit in the first place But it seems a lot less risky, but Just just transaction fees. I don't know. It just it doesn't seem like I don't know it doesn't seem Realistic to me I mean look I could be wrong But I kind of agree here unless there's something that I'm missing here Like it seems like of the same thing and then the air into your point about you know the What we have five percent if I would I would say like this me as a creditor Who's got a little bit of cash or crypto tied up there? If they want to go out and do something else And start their own company and bring people along with them great go ahead and do that But for me and I think a lot of people watch this video I don't think they're going to trust the company to bring them any kind of revenue It's uh, it's amazing how trust dissipates so fast. It takes a A lifetime to build a reputation only seconds to really destroy it and after that's gone It's pretty tough uphill battle. So talking about that Let's get to this or financial company. I mean in the audio he was talking He was comparing them to apple etc. It was just like this is not the same Right giving examples of other companies that have gone through chapter 11 bankruptcy But oh look they've come back and they've come back stronger than ever There was some airline company. I forgot which one It's like it's different. I mean my example is like, you know, if this airline company was killing people They were crashing their planes. Nobody would ever go back to them even if they came out of chapter 11. So Yeah, yeah, but it was only a minor crash those last three times not a not a major crash and it wasn't their fault Yes granted not to just completely rail on Kelvin I mean this was an early stage of the plan It could have evolved since then and they've stopped holding all hands meetings So even the employees that I'm personally in touch with they don't really know if anything's changed So it's mostly like the upper level execs that are aware of that. So Maybe it's different now. Maybe they've changed things, but I just um, if since we have no further information Just to go based on what we have on kelvin Uh, it doesn't look pretty to me. But yeah, so great great segue. So let's get into what we do know about another plan This is the one with uh, simon dixon and bank of the future and it's a little bit more Nuanced and one of the things that I liked about this is simons already been through this He talks about how he went through this with bitfinex and the hack And how they put equity into it one of the big things that stuck out with me in a recent video because he's done a series of them They said look he goes To fill this gap There's a couple different ways to do it But what we did is we gave equity into the company people wanted to get out. They got out and it's okay That's it's not for everybody. But the one that stuck around Uh, the the people that got out they took a haircut 50 60 70 whatever also was But the people that stuck around they 16xed their investment not to say that that's actually gonna happen and not a financial advice But I think on this channel if you guys know what I talk about is that patience is a virtue So erin real quick talk to us about this plan that simon has is this a good plan? I mean, it's nothing's perfect But uh, let's take a listen Yeah, so nothing's perfect. But I think what we have in front of us In terms of plans that are being talked about I would vote for it like you said simon has a track record of A very good track record. I mean he's invested in a lot of amazing companies that have done incredibly well He's personally incredibly wealthy from his investment. So I think his business sense is one that you just can't overlook in that sense yeah And he's got 10 million on the film on the platform 10 million and he's like he does it seems like he doesn't even care I mean this guy is personally loaded and that came from investing in startups like kraken blockchain.com So him as a person as an investor. I do respect a lot So I can't imagine him leading us down a path that would just Explode, you know, I think this guy knows what he's doing and I do like what he's talking about So essentially with his plan if it gets approved and there's lots of steps to even get to that point We're not even there yet to vote which we'll get to a little later essentially we would all get What he thinks now is around 47 percent of what we had on the platform so that would be taken all the altcoins which Most of the crypto is actually in bitcoin ethereum And a little bit in sell token which he will deal with sell token as well We would get and here there we have the chart 47 percent in bitcoin 20 percent in eth yeah, so His plan is to get at chapter 11 as quickly as possible by doing so we would get bitcoin and eth and We would have that in an account where we could withdraw we could say, you know what screw this I'm out and I never want to do with I never want to deal with crypto again Yeah, but then we have a three billion dollar hole and this three billion dollar hole is What celsius owes us what they don't have so how do you fill that hole? simon's idea is creating basically a venture capital fund Which he can do with his company bank to the future Salt lending which he is probably going to acquire or partner with and also using gk8 Which is owned by us the creditors which celsius purchased with our money And create a vc fund that has Cash flow businesses and ultimately the mining for example If we go into another bull market, which I think most of us do We want to be patient investors. We're here for the long term You know just like riot and marathon two other publicly traded bitcoin mining companies The valuation of those companies when they go public can be huge and mining companies in the bull market do way better Than even just holding spot bitcoin. So that's his plan to fill the hole You know, we don't have all the money to pay us now, but basically taking good taking good companies Putting them into a fund we get equity and then we profit with an IPO So so here's a thing to play devil's advocate Which is this I know we want to talk about you know, we're like simon and simon's a good guy and everything else But shoot I got it. I'll be honest with you Uh when alex on the show, I liked alex They seem like a decent person and then everything just kind of unravels So let's take it like this. What if What if celsius because they own those bitcoin miners and they have only so many percentage up up to speed Could they do it could they take it and actually run with it and go no, no, we've got it Yeah, do I do I think simon's the person and do I feel strongly Pro his plan. I'm still skeptical of all of the plans out there. So I'm kind of Taking it back seat on this one. Yeah a lot of it has to do with trust right and I think We would all agree that trust in the current management of celceus is not there. So It's gonna have to whatever happens. It's gonna have to be a new company new name new management I think that's a that's a given at this point. I think there's If there's gonna be any long-term success. So if celceus wants to run it, but they Call it a different name and they get a new management team then maybe but then it really wouldn't be celceus anymore. So I don't think so I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna have to be something new and part of the benefit of Being in chapter 11 Is that like unaccredited investors which most people are in the u.s They can actually get equity in a venture capital fund, which is what simon wants to do Which I think is actually pretty cool. So for example, most people who are not accredited investors can't even get access to a vc fund Which is kind of it's kind of interesting No, I gotta I gotta agree with you guys on this one because I think if it comes out of trust Then management so like we talked about like it's hard to To put your way behind delta if all the planes are crashing And say well, but we got the same team in place, but we got this this new plan Sometimes things don't work out that way and it just it just When the trust is gone for the for the business and things like that you have to just redo everything so I think even though Celcius has it and they can they could potentially do it There was a massive mismanagement There's a reason why celsius and i'll say it and voyager went out. There was a lot. There was mismanagement there There was something that happened on various occasions that caused them to be where they're at Now take a look people will say oh, but it was this fud campaign It was it was this and that well, there's a reason why Coinbase is still operational Binance is still around seem to be doing okay and a couple of exchanges like coup coin Don't seem to have an issue and they're actually even hiring in this bear market So to save them and go well, it just bludges this way you can do that. I just won't vote for it. So Any thoughts on that? Well No, I absolutely agree. I think that and I think that management new management. There's no question We need new management no matter what happens Um, but we were talking about this briefly prior, but I feel like my biggest questions were To erin, I guess if you want to read Touch on these again, but I was wondering If this haircut would be the same if we were to go with simons plan versus having assets be auctioned off I mean just the assets auctioned off in kind to whatever buyer Hopefully in kind and then we'd still get our crypto back But would the haircut be the same for simons plan versus auctioning the assets off because To me, I mean obviously to start a new company any new coat you're going to require additional capital and Obviously time and labor and you're going to have to pay the employees to work on whatever new company ends up being formed So I'm just a little bit skeptical of any new coat right now I'm just kind of like I don't want it to be any of my assets going towards a new company when I'm unsure about the business model and like how successful they may be So I was just wondering about the haircut differential between Having our assets auctioned off versus going with the new company or simons plan That's that's a good question But then do we know that yet because we don't have because of this exclusivity. We can't really get things out We don't really know per se. That's why I don't have a strong opinion on simons yet I would I'd want to know the numbers first my understanding and this could be completely wrong if FTX purchased Celsius's assets just like they did with Voyager. Let's say they did the same thing Right. Voyager was way more simple. There was no loans They had no mining company. They had no gk8 They had no other businesses that they used our funds like a hedge fund To invest in like what Celsius did So it makes the chapter 11 process a lot more complicated and from what I've heard from simon If FTX were to do the same thing they did with Voyager, but to Celsius's business to Celsius's assets It would not be good. So that's all I can say about that FTX did or SBF did comment on one of simons post and was like it wouldn't be buying Assets at pennies on the dollar. He'd be buying at market price. So I just to put that out there Absolutely. Yeah, I don't I don't think I think they would be wanting the assets for or they would be buying You know Buying one bitcoin for one bitcoin. I believe and Because I think that was a misconception that was going around that it would be like the sale of assets at pennies on the dollar No, I don't I don't believe that would happen. I agree with you I think it's just more complex and the questions that I don't know that we'll hear more about is If FTX does does want our assets will they give us equity In whether FTX or how would we get equity in the mining company and gk like there's still these questions about How are we going to fill the hole because filling the hole is really what's most important? Yeah And if we were to potentially gain equity in an existing company, whether it be FTX or finance or whoever might buy it Then personally and like if it was between simons plan and that potentially gaining equity in an existing company that Is already successful then I would personally go with that option But obviously that option isn't on the table and we're not sure yet But that's just my personal take. I'm also don't hate simons plan or anything, but I I would want to know more Sure, I guess that would be a good say with this one, which is uh What would you like to see ideally? What would be the what would be the best case scenario and Tiffany you kind of touched that, you know real quick But What's your best case? What would you like to see ideally come out of this just to start any new company and have it be successful? I think it's obviously difficult So I'm just skeptical of like the success of any new company that we're kind of trying to scrap together out of like the Ashes of what's left of Celsius? Yeah, yeah, so that I'm skeptical of that um So I mean if we could gain equity into an existing company that would be cool But that might be improbable and obviously this is my first rodeo with bankruptcy So I can't say what I think the probability would be but that would be nice Yeah, nobody wants to go with their bankruptcy. Trust me Exactly same thing for you. What do you want to see what I want to see is People get liquidity and get crypto as quickly as possible. There's a lot of pain out there There's a tremendous amount of pain out there that We've received many messages about so what I want is people to get Whatever Celsius has in liquid crypto assets right back into our possession as quickly as possible Where we can withdraw it sell it do whatever we want with it We want to get after we want to get off out of chapter 11 as quickly as possible The longer we're in chapter 11 the more we're paying these absorbent prices to lawyers and simons plan like other plans are The same we want to get out of chapter 11. We don't want to keep paying these people And then third a legit plan ideally to fill this three billion dollar hole would be great, you know, we Taken just a haircut I think isn't the best option. I think there are ways that we could maybe fill the hole with equity. So that's what I want Yeah, I gotta go. I'll just kind of hybrid everything you guys said For where I I hope things would go I would hope that we get some of our crypto back I understand that we're all going to take a haircut at some point. That's just how it is And I think a new company would probably be the best bet and then also, I mean, we got to get I hate this I'm not I don't hate to see it We gotta wear that that the Celsius token because the way that I understand it If you have a large amount of single holders with Celsius token and they can just dump on us And I know that the regulators are not going to want that So I don't see how that Plays into it that has to go away I know some people love it and they want to short squeeze it and all that stuff that's not for me I think I get if we get a new company and we can bring it down that way and wearing it for the long haul me personally This is me and everybody has to make the decision I would leave the funds that I have there And everybody knows how much I have there now because thank you Celsius for doxing me And I would leave it there to leave it in there for the long haul until the next bull run Because I don't see a lot of I never had a I never had the idea of like taking things out now anyhow I was waiting till 2025 2026 so if it stays in there and like Sign was talking about you know for the bit of the next problem and 16x I'm cool with that. I'm great and then just kind of work it from there to see what it becomes The question is how does it become that and we'll only figure that out this time goes on So anything anything else we missed ladies and gentlemen before we sign off I think we just need more information on all the plans, but yeah I think that's it. I think that's it Well, I again, I can't thank you guys enough for coming in on on a sunday This will be pre-recorded. We'll release this hopefully soon And once we get more information, I'll have you guys back and we'll go from there again Don't forget Aaron Bennett and his channel link in the description Tiffany her channel link in the description Go check those guys out to get the most up-to-date information because I can't bring everything to you. That's it So again, thank you guys for stopping by Thank you for having us You're welcome. So everybody of course like the video with thumbs up subscribe with that good stuff And that is it for today. Thanks for stopping by. See you on the next one