 This is still the ballot 2023 and we're glad that you're still with us. I hope that you have casted your vote if you haven't. What's the time now? I think that we still have, it's already passed for, but hopefully AINEC has extended voting time or you know the voting period up until maybe 5, 5, 30 or 6 o'clock, usually that's what happens because of some of the unseen circumstances that are not factored in. We have a guest in the studio, I mean it's good to have Che Goucheau Piton right here. I hope I got that well. It's good to see you in person, flesh and blood. Thanks for having me. I'm silver, I know. At this point I would have just loved the situation where at this point we would just be saying, hey, this is the winner and then everybody goes home. But you know because this is the winner. Where we can connect to the... I'm shocked that in this day and age we still had a situation where the ballad boxes will be going very late to the places, the materials will be going very late to the place and you know it still shocks me that we, like that piece of information that we heard that materials that were supposed to come to Legos were coming from Abuja, I said yesterday and there was an accident on the way. How did that happen? And it baffles me. Do you remember when we had this conversation? I mean when we started the open up, it was very important to look at INX level of preparedness and there's no how we're going to have this conversation up until when this result announced without looking at the level of preparedness in terms of the umpire itself. And to think that the umpire had promised and said hey, this is going to be different from the other elections. But we still had the same issues. Like he's saying, we're trying to wrap our heads around, you know, why should materials be coming as a yesterday to Legos and then they have accidents. When I talked about helicopters, it looked like I was being too ambitious at the end of the day for the country, but that's what it is. But let's get back to you here. Generally, looking at all that has happened, ballad boxes have been still snatched in 2023. I'm wondering the people who are engaging in this act, like it's very surprising. You still have the issue of the government also saying we're making security available. I'm still also trying to wrap my head around that. Now, if we said that we're in a very critical situation where we had narrow scarcity and we saw the violence that erupted in some states, one would think that would have been very ready with police presence and what have you around this polling unit. So all of this doesn't happen. People have been attacked. People have been suppressed, you know, intimidated and all of that. These are the same issues, you know, we've been talking about from 1999 and we're not seeing anything different from now. Well, we haven't done a people transplant on Nigerians. So maybe when we do that. What does that mean? You know, maybe we'll transplant, move Nigerians away to another country and bring a new set of people and then maybe the behavior will change until we do that. The only solution to this is process driven. We have to look at the processes and find a way to improve on them. Look, the logistic, I keep saying this and it looks as if even I make themselves appear to be underestimating the enormity of the task that they've been saddled with. You know, the logistic operation that these elections represent is massive. We are talking of the movement of materials and people over a 923,000 square kilometer space within a 72 hours time frame. 172,000 or 176,000 polling units. You know, we know those numbers by now almost by heart. It's a challenging task. And it looks as if INEC consistently over the years has underestimated the task and has continued to say they're prepared and then turned out not to be as prepared as they thought they were. Because I think that, look, Nigeria, like I said in the last elections, imagine, I'm quoting what I said in 2019, in 2023. INEC is a part of the civil service of Nigeria. And we all, I mean, if you've had any interactions with any government agency or government organization, you know how inefficient they are. You know how, you know, mediocrity is really a normal thing for us. INEC is not different. You know, so why are we expecting magic? The only time that we're going to have a difference and a change from all of this from materials arriving late and from accidents on the road moving ballot paper is maybe when we stop using ballot papers. You know, so I think it's time for us to start looking at electronic voting as a way to go for Nigeria. It's just about time. Look, every other thing that is required to make this happen is on ground. We need to go electronic. This, we can't continue like this. If you had electronic voting, then the frontiers for the politicians, for Reagan, will shift from ballot paper, from sending people with guns and machetes to, so they'll move to hacking. At least you would not be killing human beings, you know. Okay. Well, we had a short break. Mercy and I went out and we met some people from, within the Teosa local government. We went to polling unit 21, was that? Yes, 21. 21. So let's just listen to voters' opinions in the Teosa local government area of Lagos when we went to talk with them and how they felt about this whole process. It always is when there's no balance. And what I want to say is that people have made their right and made their choice at least for people that I want to vote for. Not that someone would tell you that I vote for Teosa Pesina. No. But some people, like me, somewhere, I've made the right that today is going to be a good day for me to choose my Senate and to choose my House of Representatives because I know today everybody has made their choice and today will be a good day for all of us. NERA because it's okay because there's no way you can bribe anybody. Everybody made their choice that this person I want to vote for, which is good. I NERC has, they want to digest a polling unit but they don't make the awareness or they don't make a grand awareness for the electorate because take for instance now. I'm voting as the unit 22. So I've been shifted to unit 70, which I'm not aware about. There's no information that says, okay, this is where you are voting on this until I get to the polling unit and my name is not there. Somebody was just saying, who's so unique? I think there's misinformation or miscommunication so they should improve on that. The I NERC officials seem to be well trained and everything is going on well. They have people that are actually helping out, which is also making it faster. The queue is faster and even if you stay under the sun with the progress at which it's going, you wouldn't really mind because we're all looking at the good posts. We're all looking for the right candidates. It's not for my own selfish interest but I'm looking for the right candidates. We're all looking for the right candidates. The presidential candidates, candidates that will actually do the job not because they want something out of, out of politics or government but the candidates that can actually deliver and take Nigeria back to being the greatest in Africa. This morning, I came all the way from Iwa Yemela and Yabba to Italy on the one way beach just to cast my post. Of course, I tried all the necessary means to get transport even as I was walking because I trekked all the way from Yabba down here today. While I was on the third million bridge, I tried my possible best to wave and for cars that are passing to see if they can give me a ride and all that but of course, nobody helped because I got to a certain stage and I almost gave up but I felt there's a need for me to do this as a good citizen of the country. I need to cast. Of course, all of us are clamoring for change and of course change cannot come unless we do it by ourselves which is why I got to do it. This happened to be my first experience of voting and I feel so good about it because I had to ask some questions about it and got a good time fighting. I really, I really, even though that report there were some things that were out of this thing but I really liked some aspects of it because when we went out for this report for instance, this guy who just spoke last said he trekked from Yabba to this place just passing through the Third Mainland Bridge alone I'm just imagining how the young man did it but the kind of dedication, the kind of patriotism with which he left his house the first election is not as if he has voted before and seen whatever it was but to come to this place and vote and the first person we talked to said when he came, our next staff were overwhelmed and he had to be the one to paste all the names of the people the papers bearing the names of the people wherever they needed them to be and I was just looking at a new Nigeria the kind of dedication and patriotism and all that but in that same breath that I'm talking about this we're still hearing ballot snatching structures that people used to say that they have because these structures are people who can snatch ballot boxes why have we not grown above that at this time? What do you think is the incentive at this time that we have the beavers and technology? Does it mean technology has not changed anything in our lives? I think first of all we should acknowledge and appreciate that young man if I had my way you locate him and give him an award because that's exemplary citizenship one of the biggest obligations you have as a citizen in a democracy is to cast your vote is to exercise your franchise and make sure that your voice you have your say so kudos to him and everybody else I mean my son eventually couldn't vote because of a similar problem he registered his polling unit supposed to be right by our house but for some reason Ainec flung him to some location that's about 20 kilometers away and we just consider we weighed our options and we realized that look it's almost suicide he would have had to do something like this he would have had to walk all the way and then walk back and we just said don't worry so myself and my daughter went to vote I mean it was painful because it was going to be his first election he was very enthusiastic about it and all that so that young man there really should be applauded you know about the technology why we're still doing ballot snatching and why our behavior hasn't changed I think it's probably because that's a sociology question you're asking and the answers are multifaceted first of all people will behave in a way that they have been programmed to behave by society our society rewards misbehavior there is no consequence for bad behavior the last election is that people snatched ballots what happened to them some of them were caught on tape we knew where they were they're walking for it today they didn't go to jail as they lost it so we program ourselves to behave badly impunity is a standard in our society rather than consequence management so you know you have behavior like this for as long as that's subsist so let's talk about those who have been disenfranchised not because they want to be because of some of the inner decreases of INET for instance a lot of persons I have a cousin who feels really really bad that she hasn't been part of this process I mean she's very anxious to cast a vote but she can't because she couldn't get her PVC over time she was thought to escalate, de-escalate and escalate and up until the last day they couldn't find her PVC so what do you make of these cases there are also cases where people INET came up with having new polling units so we can have a lot of people be part of the process and in most cases people get to polling units and can't find their names so these little issues and inner decreases that have been identified what do you make of them and moving forward for the next election cycle or apparently the 11th of March do you think there's anything that can be done I don't think there's anything that can be done as far as 11th of March is concerned we're going to use the same water register it's the same database so whatever mistakes or whatever process issues have a reason during the CVR okay we've just seen the jubilation there wherever a candidate wins I'm sure the people around there will jubilate like that for that polling unit it was Labour Party that won other places there could be APC, PDP, YPP whatever party wins but that's the general jubilation when the voices of the people are heard in the ballot or on the ballot we're glad to be joined by Degi I will be the legal practitioner also on the program right now Degi welcome to the program Degi can you hear me yes I can good to see you thanks for joining us how has it been today wherever you are how was the election generally in your area well it was quiet it was peaceful the toilet was quite encouraging I believe that people were driven to go to the polls to see the occurrences that have occurred in the past months so I think it was quite impressive there were about 440 minutes close to where I see Degi's audio is not too good Degi maybe you'll have to cut and rejoin us and we will get back to you okay but you know what we just watched what does it say to you about this election is it a picture we can say is it going to be general in Nigeria or is it just particular places that will have this kind of spirit this kind of excitement this kind of jubilation well you know these elections has thrown up an equation that we haven't had in Nigeria for a very long time we have three major contenders two being the traditional old establishment parties and one being an outsider and you know up until recently just a dark horse but right now he looks as if he is maybe even a front runner and what you see there is the excitement that follows these types of things so for example when this happened in Kenya and when this happened I think it was in Zimbabwe where a candidate that was called a social media candidate won the elections you saw this kind of joy as well so it's very interesting but like you say I like what you said there when we came back from that picture that you know this is just one polling unit it's still a long way to go before results are released so I think people need to hold their horses celebrate your little wins wherever you are because you know life is short like I like to say whatever victories you get celebrate it but hold your horses let's wait and see what the eventual overall outcome of these elections will be but so far it's looking very very interesting indeed I'm really happy because for the first time we really had what we've been calling without really having it a third force I'm not sure we had it in any other election before now other people were just well I wouldn't say they were just making noise but they were not such a force that could be called a third force but finally we have this and whether the outcome of the election becomes anyhow we know that like you said small victories are being won by the citizens of Nigeria by the picture we've seen now absolutely and making reference to the third force conversation we remember that a lot of people when we talked about the third force of 2023 it's interesting to know that we're already in 2023 and the question or the expectation of the people had been we're going to see a measure you know measure of different political party but it seemed like it's a different kind of force that we're seeing but just like you have mentioned you know it's still too early to begin to insinuate or say anything fingers across we're seeing how things develop and definitely bring you up to speed but let's you know get back to the electoral act now a bit of it I would like to ask what do you think the position of the electoral act is as regards these pockets of violence in polling units for 2022 where there's I think the electoral act has been very clear I kind of wonder if the intentions there will be achieved by that provision but the provision of the electoral act is whether it's over voting on the one hand or whether it's violence established violence on the other hand that the elections in those places will be cancelled where you have that sometimes you know that works against so you called what that law could do is to encourage politicians to foment trouble in the stronghold of their position so that you know knowing that that trouble would cold result in the cancellation you know of results there so I think that we still need to look at the electoral act a bit more and find a way to prevent creating a scenario where you are encouraging the bad behavior, the very behavior that you're trying to prevent because you are giving an incentive to the people fomenting that bad behavior so you're saying they're having an election you know cancelling the polling unit or whatever had happened prior to the violence that would have erupted is aiding bad behavior what I'm saying is if you say that any polling unit where there is violence established violence proven that the elections for that polling unit will be cancelled you could be encouraging opposition actors to deliberately foment trouble in strongholds of their opponent knowing that as a result of that trouble elections there will be cancelled elections there will be cancelled so we have to be more creative about how to ensure that we don't have violence and I don't even know if it's a creativity thing I think it's just simply a lack of will to enforce what the law is very clear about these things these guys are supposed to end up in jail we don't need to be overly imaginative about this just apprehend them and make sure they go to jail if you have done this consistently since say for example 2015 you would have some of these guys would think twice before they allow themselves to be used so think about that polling unit that we just saw now it's a good thing that we had that superhero guy he's not wearing a cape but he's a superhero going after thugs and collecting the box that was most important to him the presidential ballot box and bringing it back and ensuring that it got counted if he hadn't done that the votes in that entire polling unit would have been voided that was the end of it and that's not good enough we really need to do better with our elections I don't remember where I had this but I know I had this saying that if we want to ensure we're developed a peaceful election then securities at the top of it security agencies must be at the top of it no matter what we talk about I want us to go back again because I don't think that this conversation we can never get security out of the conversation entirely so let's look at this what exactly are we dealing with is it that we don't have enough personnel or is it that we lack the manpower now I remember that we were all watching that video and looking at that we saw one or two at first I thought it was just one police officer then I saw two then I also saw that you had a lot of them in their vehicle and then that still happened so what exactly are we dealing with you know elections first of all is not a war it's just an exercise of your civic mandate right so having and of a bearing presence of security operatives is detrimental for having a free and fair you know you need to have an atmosphere of peace where people have confidence and they can go and exercise their franchise you know without fear of harassment, intimidation or even a fear for their lives so bearing that in mind what the law or what the procedure of the security services provides is that in the immediate vicinity of polling units you do not have a heavy security presence they usually have one or two policemen and they are never armed so they call them the three rings the three concentric security rings so the innermost ring which is the ring right at the polling unit you don't have arms then you have the second ring which is usually about a kilometer away from the polling unit and then you have armed policemen and then you have the third ring where you can then deploy more heavy personnel should things really go out of hand and the reason for that is that you don't want to create an atmosphere of fear during elections it's important and also bearing in mind that having armed security personnel interacting too closely with a large mob of people you know who are very emotionally charged elections are kind of very sensitive you know it can be a recipe for kills but you will not have too many security people too close to the polling unit and that's why these thugs will take advantage of the situation so you know sometimes you just have to say to citizens you know stand up and fight for your votes but it's not a war like I said and ultimately for me I've always said and will continue to say you cannot secure the elections enough what you need to do is to provide a process that will make the security unnecessary let's bear in mind that in developed societies in most developed societies you don't even stop movements to have elections people just go out during their normal working day over a two to three day period and they cast their votes I'm coming back I'm on my way from work I just talk about a polling unit somewhere or a voting center which is probably in some big departmental store imagine having a polling unit maybe say I can't mention the big South African retail outlet and you just walk in on your way back from work cast your vote and go home that's the way it's supposed to be not where you stop all activity for an entire day and you deploy soldiers, SSS civil defense police are we at war so we really need to get to a point where these processes are demilitarized and are done in such a manner that all of these types of mischief can be prevented and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates