 Mike absolutely incredible to have you on the call again, and thank you so so so so much for joining us and Yeah, congratulations. You got a new book coming out. Thank you excited to chat about that and and well done on Everything I see lots of great things about the happiness museum. There's lots of things that have happened since we last chatted So yeah, what an honor. Thank you. Looking forward to it. Thanks for having me Chris always always fun and a pleasure to talk with you Same same and say New book my hooker home. I've got some of your other books up here. Wow. Okay. You've got the good It's it does it bigger. I see you have the little book of who I think this is the big book It's it's twice the size actually of the of the original who the book Are you gonna they're getting progressively bigger because I can see the first they are at the same Once a bit bigger. Yeah, they're following the the size of my ego basically, right? What are you buried down to it is you're an amazing person to hang around so I think your ego is pretty When when you made this this book was there a particular reason why you wanted to make a book about the home now Um Yes, so actually the idea came I Think now six years ago seven five five years ago when when when the first huger book was published and You read it and for those that haven't there is there is an entire chapter around the lighting in the little book of The rule of thumb is the Warmer the temperature the softer the light the more hugly the lighting and who is about sort of creating a nice atmosphere and After I have published that book I spoke to a Canadian journalist and he had read about who he read my book and he read about lighting and Dane's use a lot of candles because they give up this nice soft warm lights and he said that he read that and then he went home and he bought some Candle holders and he started to light candles for dinner at home with his family and him and his wife at the time they had three teenage sons and I think two fifteen year olds and an 18 year old and And at first when he started to light the candles for dinner Teenage boys being teenage boys that you know dad you know started to tease him What's going on with the candles? Do you want to have some romantic time with mom? Should we leave? And It turned out you know over time it actually became the boys that started to light the candles for dinner and it became this ritual for the family and what I really liked He said was that you know their family dinners now lasted 15 to 20 minutes longer and You know instead of sort of sitting down shoveling down their food that the different atmosphere around the table because of the lighting put the boys in a storytelling mode a Mode and sort of though they sip their wine They talked about their day and I thought it was it was such a nice example of how a little simple Design change around a dinner table Impacted how a family interacted and that became the first sort of sort of seed in Could we look at other design hacks around your home that could sort of Stack the deck in your favor in terms of achieving happiness and I think also Another element in all this was You know of course being Danish you grew up with with design and the importance of that, but it was also sort of you know the global pandemic and also now sort of War in Europe and there's a lot of turbulence going on and our home is a zone we can to some extent control We spend a lot of time at home and we've done at the happiness research It's into different studies that show the importance of our homes when it comes to our mental health and well-being So it was sort of those Puzzles that that started to merge a couple of years ago And the working title was the architecture of happens Yeah, but that title somebody else stole Or had had written a book about So we went with with my who go home as well, so it's about yeah, it's about who it's about design It's about how to turn your home into or your house into a home and sort of sort of harness the architecture of happiness basically I'd imagine if If the candles have that effect on 15 and 18 year old boys, then that's the ultimate test It works on that demographic probably gonna work on anyone And true did did you make it with with the with the journalist at all? Is it just just based on on on your your research and the things that you've been finding? It's it's it's based on the research we do at the happiness research institute But also other research that have been done in this field So Some of the work that we have done we looked at And I think it was 13,000 homes in 10 European countries at the happiness research Institute looking at How they impact happiness and quality of life and found that You know if you're happy with your home You're very likely to be happy overall and that happiness with your home could explain I think was 15% of your overall happens We could also then see which factors in your home have a bigger impact on happiness than others for example Having good daylight having enough space Interesting part is its spaciousness. It's not the actual size of your house that matters, which I think is really important to underline So so we could see that that that homes have a big impact on a happiness and it's something that also The World Health Organization have pointed towards they find that if you have inadequate daylight in your home You are 60% more likely to become depressed There's also a super cool study at the in the UK. Actually, there's the millennial cohort studies where 12,000 kids born around the year 2000 have been followed in their childhood and then when they grow up and You can see when these kids were seven 50% of the kids had a TV in their bedroom And four years later those 50% that had TV in the bedroom Have a 25 higher risk of being obese when they're 11 years old So we can see many different ways that the way we Design our homes what we put in our bedrooms and our kids bedrooms How we interact as a family around the dinner table that is actually something that You know design have an influence over so it's I wanted to bring attention to that And help people understand the design choices they make around their home and how that sort of impact well be It's fascinating. I mean the TV thing is nuts. I didn't realize how much that yeah that affects Happiness it makes a lot of sense minutes interesting just Randomly seeing how many of my friends make an active choice to kind of either not have a TV or to hide it in another room Have it locked away for special occasions away from the kids. Um, and then you're saying it's that sort of fifth Roughly 15% of your happiness is is linked to to the home and then I'd imagine that I was again Having a conversation the other day with some friends about the difference between renting and owning I don't know whether you ever found any any research on that because we were saying that Renting is is in a way Mentally probably a lot easier and that you know if circumstances change It's much easier for you to then leave and go to a different place or if Something terrible happens to your home at least you can you can leave and get it sorted whilst if something You know terrible happens to your home if it's yours. It's it's often Catastrophic can really change your your lifestyle. Did you have any any any insights? Yeah, so actually the big study we did Around happiness at home in the 10 European markets With 12 13,000 homes we did look at whether being an owner or renter impacted your your happiness with your home and and over and We did find that in some countries for instance in the UK. We could see being a homeowner Is is a factor in in in happiness It wasn't the case in Germany for instance renters and homeowners are equally happy and What we think is a play is the sort of social comparison effect Rensing is far more common in Germany compared to the UK also compared to Denmark and Social comparisons is also it's often it's often a big theme in happiness research that People care more the more about their relative income than their absolute income. So, you know, of course, it matters how much I'm able to sort of Purchase and consume but it it matters more How I feel I'm doing Financially compared to my reference group and and that is probably also what we're seeing here with with with homes if all your friends are Homeless Then that's the norm and then if you are not owning your own home, then you feel you're sort of behind or notice if you don't feel as sort of financially secure or Accomplished as your friends and so so If we can detach ourselves from what norms are and what the sort of What we feel the right thing to do is then then then then we can sort of remove the power that home ownership has I guess those social norms are a Factor in a lot for different things in happiness Are there any kind of things that you've seen people do or Anything that you kind of recommend to people to try and Make them more aware to detach themselves from from sort of judging how they're doing compared to others That if that makes sense, I think I think we actually I think we cover this in the at least one of the happiness courses We've done with you in terms of For example, social media being aware of the impact it can have on us when Sort of social media feed is a constant bombardment of great news that happens for everybody else And instead of focusing focusing so much on what other people are doing or what other people have then sort of consider Am I in a better place today than I was one to five years ago? But of course it's it's it's it can be challenging Yeah, sorry, there's a slightly off topic, but Just intrigued to know the answer So when you're let's go back to back to the house, so you I was reading some of the Tips from the from the book previous talking a lot about the importance of creating Spaces in your home, and I saw there was one about creating a space for shelter or a space for privacy Yeah, what What's that about and I mean I'm because I'm guessing This is a great book and for now and that I mean probably would have been even more helpful two years ago But it's but it's still very helpful because we are I think all spending so much more time at home Yeah, I know having a hybrid sort of work model, right Yeah, the privacy thing. Yeah. Yeah, the privacy and the shelter thing Which is actually two two things but but in the book I've sort of structured it Around mass loves hierarchy of needs Which I think makes a lot of sense from a happiness point of view and sort of shelter Is the sort of very sort of foundation in terms of our needs and of course our homes provide that And also it's that sort of area where we do have some control over what is happening compared to the sort of wider turbulent world But you also write about the privacy element that we need our homes to retreat to We really enjoy taking part in in community and we can see what people look for when they are looking at neighborhoods is Sort of a village feeling even though they might be living in a bigger city They like to know that the names of their neighbors. They like to be able to borrow sugar and milk and so on But they also really need to retreat And I thought it was super interesting we we recently did a another study where we looked at row houses in Copenhagen and in the in in the UK Birmingham I believe it was and and in Copenhagen some some of the most coveted Houses in Copenhagen is 11 streets in a neighborhood called the potato rose and Long story, but but So so these row houses. They have a small front yard and A backyard and in the front yard That's where people sit and drink coffee and read the newspaper and talk to the neighbors and so on in The backyard even though they're really close and even though they might even be able to see the other neighbors The culture is that there's a consensus around we don't talk to each other in the backyard Because we want to give this sort of illusion of being private So this is where we retreat to in our garden. I thought that that was an interesting thing But I think that's a sort of common human Desire to be able to retreat to places to sort of re-energize and realize So I think that's also something we need to keep in mind when we are designing our homes Where can I be in sort of complete peace? Either from the sort of street, but perhaps also sometimes, you know We need even though we have part of a family to sort of just be ourselves and have quality alone time and I Also in the book talk about sort of the importance of of Preparing for winter if we want to go sort of a game of thrones, right? That that that sort of who be is also about sort of Expecting winter who is about sort of finding shelter in turbulent times in Sweden there's sort of a national advice that you should have I think it's seven days worth of food and water in your home And that's also something I advise people to To do in the book to sort of be more mindful of their pantry and sort of have food prepared Consider what you would do if you were snowed in for five or seven days, you know, what would you do? What would you live off? And there's a lot of joy in cooking And it's it's it's a super important element I think in how to create a figure home to focus on the family meal and cooking in general and Interestingly when you ask people in the UK, what makes a house a home? The top five has nothing to do with things. The first thing we see is on the seventh place. That's a sofa But the first things are love laughter belonging the smell of home cooked food and family dinners and And unfortunately family dinners in a lot of countries including the UK is on decline A lot of people the majority of people say that they had more family dinners when they were growing up than they do now So that's that's something I would really like to change and That's also why I thought that Story from our Canadian reader was so interesting that he did a little Design hack around the dinner table and now their family dinners last longer And I'm really curious to sort of understand how can we You know, how can we spend less time at the kitchen table but more time at the dinner table? And one of the suggestions in the book is to eat artichokes which Which is a great food But it's basically one hour of prep time. So It's boiling water salt in it half a lemon and then boil the artichokes for 35 45 minutes and I'm Being a nerd and being a numbers guy I measured the average length of our family dinners and then so what's the average impact in terms of length when we have artichokes? And our dinners last 12 minutes longer when we have artichokes because it's a really slow Slow food to eat or you peel off the leaf and you dip them in butter or oil and then you sort of suck off Then there's sort of meat from from the meat. So things like that where we can, you know If we do Raps or tortillas, you know when you slice up some some vegetables and then you get your family or your friends to sort of assemble their own food so Get cooking and and sort of get sort of, you know good people around a Table with good food. That's a very good starting recipe for happiness. So that's that's also what the book is about How can we sort of have more really good quality dinners with our family and friends? That's fascinating It makes so much sense when you think about it that the occasions and things like the smell of food would work and Wow, there's probably very good news for a lot of those companies that are coming out now That you care this one called mindful chef. There's lots of them where you sort of, you know, they they give you the meals and you have to make them Yeah, I think it yeah, we've been trying that ourselves. It's actually really nice It brings us both together because I don't know about you We always find that quite often one of us will keep working and then we'll take it in turns to make food And then we're ready. Okay. Okay, then it's the quickly together and then you know go off or spend a bit So it's I think you're absolutely right sort of when you make something together. It's Yeah does make it if you feel so much and better Another study said the majority of people in the uk wish they had more family dinners and say it's it's the most Important quality time to have they have together as a family or as a couple I think that there's so much happiness to be sort of harvested from that activity And also, I mean with the sort of cost of living going up in terms of you know eating out and so on eating at home is Cheaper it's it's healthier. So there's a there's a lot of benefits benefits from it And also on that in the book I talk about how huge is also The good life on a low budget. It's it's it's using what we have or make do is that how you say it in in english and I think it's it's It's a shame and that happens in denmark as well. There's a lot of of food waste going on I could see that the average uk family throws out 750 pounds of food each year, which is is Unfortunate, especially these days the cost of food is going up maybe a thousand pounds now And then I think there's actually some simple hacks to to counter that So in our fridge, we have what I call the hospice shelf or the retirement shelf So there I put the the the food the ingredients we have to eat in the next day or two And it's the most visible shelf in the fridge. So every time I open it. I'm just confronted with okay Uh, that salad that leaf are going a little bit brown. We need to eat it soon And that salmon we need to work that into lunch or dinner or something. Um, so so simple hacks like that minimize food waste also Keep a list of what you have in the freezer on your phone And um, and and and write down When you put stuff in the freezer, what's in the what's in the box? um, I think to quote Brad Pitt in seven what's in the box, but uh Or in in a container or if you put it in a plastic bag because You might have some left left over You know bolognese if you had spaghetti bolognese and you know You put it in a in in a bag and you think okay, I'll going to remember that this is bolognese And then three months go by and you put in five other things that are sort of brownish in color In your freezer and you have no idea what it is and then you end up either having spaghetti with doc agoo or you you throw things in the fridge, right? So so think simple things like that that can help us You know make do with what we have reduce food waste have more family dinners Um, that that's what I've been trying to do with the book as genius It was also way for me to sort of uh, to sort of write about what I'm what I'm passionate about privately Yeah, I'd imagine that I The out of sight out of mind thing of the freezer is is genius like I Almost makes me think that they should invent a some sort of a A screen like an LED screen that's uh for your freezer so that you can see what's actually in there because it's uh Yeah, right at the grocery store and you think What should I have for dinner tonight, right? And then you go over. Okay I have some leftover red curry. Uh, there's some chicken. There's some peas. Okay We already got something going there those three ingredients and then you can add Whatever you need for that price Um, so yeah, I think it just helps And and make every day a little bit easier and hopefully happy That's amazing. Were there any other occasions apart from sort of meal times that they that that you found that that were kind of key? Um, I mean I There's also sort of an entire chapter around lighting again, right? Um, because we can see that has a big impact on on people's mental health You know having access to daylight Like the whos that well that reduces your your risk of depression, but also how we use artificial lighting in Uh, uh home has an impact. There's some really really cool studies that have been done in danish schools Whether instead of having this sort of uniform white bright light in the ceiling have I think we call them Pendles that's sort of sort of uh Downward-facing lights Tables and that sort of brings the kids Up to the table and do their work there instead of rolling around on the floor In in in the classroom And there was a there was a phd student who did a study on it I can see that the the different lighting in the classroom reduced the Disable levels of the the noise in in in the classroom significantly So so this is like spotlights Um, yes, um down lights down lights. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's that's amazing. That's fascinating and it was color or warmth of light So I noticed whenever I've been lucky enough to come to Copenhagen um, you know, everyone seems to all be uh, you know singing from the same The same song that the the lighting is always amazing And if you look in someone's house, it's sort of almost like a glow an orange glow It looks like a warm a warm fire and Whilst if you you know walking around london, you'll often look up and it looks like someone's got a A blue white light You know shining in there. It looks like a hospital or something. It's uh, yeah Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a big thing I think in in in Denmark and Danish design and you're right in a lot of homes You'll find what we call huger lighting, which are like you describe this sort of orange warm Lights or sort of islands of light around the living room Which is good for sort of relaxing. It also makes people look nicer. We call it looking grotto fabulous um But there's also moments for that blue white light you you you describe from you said from nondon or from Because if you're doing the dishes You don't want huger lighting because then you're going to have that left over a red curry that you have That's that right so so I think the the the the the key is to have options for different kinds of light That you need within that room. So if you're doing When you're doing the dishes, you need a different light when you're working You need a different light compared to when you're in Relaxing mode or when you're having a romantic dinner with with your wife or when you're having friends over for drinks So so so so understanding what the function are of the different rooms and understanding how you need different lights for different functions I think that's that's the first step So it's a great advert also for philips you light bulbs But um, can can you turn them up and down in terms of sort of warmth and uh Yeah, I mean I've I've got them. I've turned my phone off. But uh, yeah All the lights in here that can go from Yeah, whatever color you want. Um, but uh, I mean what when you said, uh, there was there was a better color for working Was did you find out what that color was? Is it more of a bright white? Yeah, yeah, right? Okay, is that because I always try and keep mine still on warm lighting. So that's probably why I sometimes feel quite tired When I'm working All right, I'll remember that there's also time of day, right that that you need some light for for certain times a day Basically also because of electric prices going up, you know harness as much daylight as you can um, so I have really good lighting in the uh in the morning down by my work desk So I try to stay there now. It's a it's a great day in Copenhagen. So there's no daylight anywhere But but in the evening, uh, we'll be on the other side of the house So basically think like you're a cat, you know, go where the daylight is That that that's also a way to to achieve When I mean, I wonder when you were making the book did you find Were there anything was there anything that you found that you're going to use to change in your own house? Or that you have already changed in your own house um, the the um The hacks around uh food are really used a lot and and I obsess over now What I have in the freezer and what is on the hospice shelf? Um, and also I enjoy cooking but I I enjoy eating more So so so finding good recipes where um I can quickly create a a a nice meal Uh that that can get then be worked into other meals. Um So for instance, uh, you know, I like to do a roast chicken, uh, and then you could have like the the um The drumsticks and then a couple of days later, we can use the the the the the chicken breasts in in in chicken burgers We got guacamole some some pickled onions on top um, and then once you've done perhaps four Chickens you have a lot of of chicken bones in your freezer You know that from your phone, and then you can you can you can cook a good chicken stock on on sort of four sort of chicken bones Do you call them carcasses? Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah carcasses work. So so so so uh stuff like that. Um I've I've I've I've I've tried to harness, uh, even better than and I've done So you've not totally redecorated yet changed the the color of your walls and uh, um, so In Denmark, it's it's I mean now I have a yellow, uh wall behind me, but it's quite typical to have uh A lot of white walls because they reflect Lighting better. Um, and Dan's quite obsessed about getting daylight Maybe it's because we are without it for a majority Of the year. So so that's something we've been we've been we've been mindful of um And then also having uh, what I call this sort of Viking proof seat Sort of a chair with with with with my back to the wall Uh, so so no Viking can come up and sneak And an attack on me that that's that's what I need when I read and when I write Oh, wow, that's amazing. That's brilliant. Um, and I I was um, I was thinking the other day Another thing that seems to come up a lot recently in homes is is plants um with Are there any particular plants that you should or shouldn't have? And the ones that you can see live the ones that you can keep alive, but you're right And and there is um There's a chapter around that in in the book as well because we can see from different studies that plants are being In contact with nature Has a positive impact on well-being. There's also plenty of studies that show that people recover from Searchery faster if they have a view of green areas compared to a to a boring wall Um, so there's a lot of of benefits. Uh, there's there's a whole sort of research area in Biophilia as as as it's called. All right. Um, but I see we have similar taste in in in plants more or less the same there Yeah, anything unkillable, uh, it's the it's the way for us. Otherwise, otherwise we end up stressing about it probably more But I mean, I guess that thing on natural materials must be quite important. So plants are nice because they're you know, they're green and part of nature So is it did you find it's the same with sort of using more natural materials like wood and things like that? Yeah, I mean, but that's a that's a big sort of trend I would say in Danish design That sort of basically bringing nature into your living room Uh, sort of, you know, think what would a biking squirrel decorate his home like so So so wood material is is is big But I think, you know, going back to what we talked about the sort of Maslow hierarchy of needs It's Yes, the shelter and yes the love of belonging Um And sort of self-esteem and also the the very top of of Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a self actualization So it's also understanding how we can create a home that inspires us to do what we would actually like to do um and reminder Remind us of what we want to be reminded of Now I see you in the background have the the wonderful books by Mike Viking Uh, and you have you have Legos and you have uh Yeah, you have a Lego spaceship and is it a What is that the one on the top of the shelf? That's a space shuttle a space shuttle. Um, yeah, I've got a satin five rocket a space shuttle I've got a mini greet from uh from the Avengers film. Oh, right in the bookcase Um back to the future car Um, but I think that's great because I think We need to understand that that what you see is what you are reminded of um, and I have At the desk where I'm writing a lot of sort of mementos that remind me of some of the great times I've had in my life and some of the important lessons that I've learned um And that helps me for example when when I write uh to sort of dive into those stories and and and you have sort of things that Evidently brings you you joy And I think that's also what we need to understand that our homes can help us with You know use mementos as memory triggers of the good times that we have had or what actually brings us joy Um, and that helps us I think with with the whole sort of self actualization level of of mass loves hierarchy of needs Yeah, I think it's it's it is interesting. It says it you I know one of your tips in the book Again, I was reading from zooming into a picture was surround yourself by the things that make you smile Um, I guess that's a sort of similar thing. I find it interesting that in some rooms I want things to be very clean and clear Uh, like the kitchen noise has to be pretty tidy Um, same with the living room If I want to be able to walk in there and that's just Not too many distractions. I can lie down and be comfortable. But then my my study for me I guess being slightly wacky and creative. There's always bits all over the place. Yeah, it's not it's not super messy But there's I'm surrounded here on this table by books and little photographs of things and little notes But uh, yeah, it makes me feel comfortable and happy. It's like my little More resting places a little whoo-ho Yeah, yeah But um, I I uh, I thought the two things I I don't want to keep you for too long. Um, but I thought um It would be lovely to to chat very briefly if we can just because Since we last chatted you you've opened up the happiness museum as well So if anyone is traveling anywhere near Copenhagen or if someone is looking for a new country to go to um That a good a good place to go to is now Copenhagen even more than it was before Because you can go and visit the the happiness museum. Yeah It looks amazing. It is. I mean, it's it's it's it's really fun um To visit for me as a as a happiness research also because we we ask people questions uh, and I get to see their answers so so The reason why we did the happiness museum was that we we got a lot of letters mails from people who wanted to come by and see the happiness research institute And it's a boring office where we sit in front of computers and it you know, it's not it's not boring He lied. It was there was like when I last went there were just puppies rainbows unicorns. It was amazing Um, but we thought why don't we create an exhibition where people can come and explore some of the questions and answers that we are we are working with and and we put The the sort of knowledge we have into books and courses and with teacher universities and we do reports And we thought a museum is also a way to communicate findings and So in the midst of the pandemic, uh, we we opened The happiness museum and we like to say it's it's a small museum about the big things in life And we created different rooms Or we have different themes in the different rooms. So there's a For instance, there's a room around the history of happiness So how have the perception of the good life evolved over time? There's a room with the science of happiness. So how do crazy researchers like myself and my team try and and quantify well-being Um, and before you hit record, we also talked about my my favorite room Which is where we have asked people to write down on post-its what happiness is to them And now we have thousands of post-its And it's really fun as a researcher to go in there and see what what do people define happiness is or what is happiness to people and Um, you know, we we see a lot of people writing relationships I know why sister husband brother son, etc. We see a lot of people writing about food Um Which we Yeah, I told you this before you hit record My favorite post-it is somebody who wrote that happiness is a good quality lawnmower and a big lawn to mow So I and I'm sort of original original answers We also have in a different room around happiness The politics of happiness. We've asked the guests To write down which law they would pass if they were happiness minister And I was This week and I saw somebody had wrote that everybody should get a pair of corgis Which I thought was a was a was a nice policy proposal So it's it's it's it's about happiness. Um, hopefully people leave a little wiser around Happiness research and hopefully also a little happier And and our biggest hope is that that people become motivated Even more to to make the world a little bit better Yeah, amen, and I I mean, I remember when when we first met you I think I asked you that question Which was what what would you do if you could If you could pass the law and I think you said it was that you would want everyone to have a best friend Uh, which I thought was absolutely incredible, but I don't think I ever asked you the question Which was what is happiness to you? He said that you asked that question of your visitors. Yeah, so so And I I stand by my policy proposal that that everybody should get an additional Good friend or best friend and two corgis um My definition of happiness is is of course, uh Bias because of my work, but I think the the sort of best definition we have is um That happiness is the feeling of contentment of joy Of positive emotions combined with the sense that your life is meaningful and worthwhile Which is a horrible definition because it's it's so so long so wide and so complex But but that is what happiness is it is complex and it is about sense of purpose and meaning and it is about joy it is about, you know Having a delicious burger with pickled onions And it is about contentment and I think we need to build all those things into the definition of happiness We need to sort of Acknowledge that happiness is a dish with many different ingredients on it. A good life is about building silly lego space Toys and and and reading good books and having good conversations with your friends and your spouse and and doing meaningful work Um, so so we need that I think wide uh definition of of of happiness. Um And that of course makes it challenging when we're trying to quantify because then exactly what part of the happiness definition Are we talking about now? Um But I think we we we have answers to that challenge as well Yeah, it's good to strive for those and and and happiness is also having a conversation with you You're amazing. So thank you. Um, I got one last question before we we we leave Um, so I've started asking silly questions to everyone when they come on Um, and I thought thought the one that I thought might might work well for you Says would you rather be able to teleport any way you want to any time? Or would you rather be able to look at a book and instantly absorb all the knowledge inside it? um teleport It's you do a lot of traveling right so I do and I have I have friends and family in in in in places, uh, that are far from from my home. Um and It it would mean I would get to see you more often and and one of my my a couple of my good friends are uh, john and milley who uh Living in Vancouver and that's a long flight. Um And and and and my dad lives three hours away, uh in a car and you know, I think that would I'm I'm coming from this from a happiness point of view Yeah, I think having access to my friends and family members at an instant Uh would have a bigger marginal impact on my happiness than being able to download the knowledge from from every book I know I should say the other being an author Uh, but I think there's also some pleasure in reading. Uh, so just being able to sort of download the knowledge is is is You know, if you know You could also, you know, down a protein protein drink and then get the protein you need Uh, chicken burger just tastes better So I'm I'm going to go with option a Yeah, so get option. I think I'd I'd take the same Okay, I'm gonna ask It would I For pretty much the same reasons. I think it's I the one I would add is I think it would also allow me to sort of get a break really quickly Yeah, be able to sort of just instantly go to the middle of a forest and Just be around nature Is is is also pretty amazing and sometimes it's quite hard when you're in a city to do that. Yeah But um, yeah, I agree. I think I think people are just so valuable It's just it's the thing I miss the most is sort of me when you're at school You're always around your friends and then you become an adult and then start having kids and all these other things happen It gets harder and harder to meet up with people So if there was some magical way to Yeah, just think it and suddenly be with your friends, it'd be great. Um, I agree. Maybe maybe scientists can get working on that I'll I'll see what I'll see what my team can do Yeah, that'd be great. Okay But I'll look for that one last thing, uh, Chris. I actually wrote about legos in in the latest book. Um, because um One one thing, you know can I think it's quite rewarding to do For example legos or puzzles, you know that the sort of feeling of the last lego or piece of the puzzle So that that sense of accomplishment Or you know being the guy with the quality lawnmower and a big lawnmower I think that's the sort of sense same sense of accomplishment we get from from building legos, but I think there's also I think there's also an additional Value in having that analogue play Uh with friends or with with family and you know, also if people have teenagers um I think it's good to to build legos with them or do puzzles or board games Instead of only having screen time together Because you you will then be building something your spaceship for example And you can build and you can also have a conversation that then doesn't sort of entail Awkward silences that you might be having with your teenage sons. Um So so I think that's another Sort of design hack because I think that can give you a different sort of a different sort of conversation Compared to sitting in front of your teenager or sitting next to them when you're watching telly So so bringing out the legos bringing out the board games bringing out the puzzles. I think that that's another Hack that we just wanted to share But I agree that it's super important and very very valuable Um, and thank you very much for sharing your valuable time We want to thank you because we need to get working on that kind of travel machine Yeah, yeah, I can't wait. Well, I I still can't wait to come to Copenhagen. I've still got a flight It's still still in credit with the with all the shareways. So hopefully I can Come over and say hello seeing and and They'll give you a tour of all the very best for the book. Um for anyone's listening go to amazon.com or your local bookstore Uh, you can buy it right away. Um, it's coming out on the September 29th September 29th. Okay, marvelous. Fantastic. So if you're listening on this to this after September the 29th Good news. Just go to the bookstore. You'll see it and it's bigger than the other ones. So you'll find it easily. Um But uh, Mike you're amazing. Thank you so so much. Um, thank you so much and the family and yeah That's what's chatting against you likewise. Thank you. Thanks right