 Gabrielle is a San Francisco real estate broker and investor with more than 18 years of experience. So far she has published three books about real estate investing and is working on the fourth book in the series. She lives in San Francisco with her cat and loves to travel off the beaten path and connect with people their cultures and languages. Please welcome Gabrielle Don. Hello everyone. I hope you can hear me. Is that can you just everybody can hear me. Yes. Great. Thank you. Wonderful. Welcome. Let me before I go. I'm going to share my screen. And then we'll go from there. One second. Okay, here we go. Now, we're going to go from here. Everybody hopefully can see this. Is that correct? Okay. Oh, sorry. I clicked something and then it didn't. Here we go. All right. So, welcome everyone. Thank you for your interest in investing via self directed IRAs, whether you already are an investor, or want to become one. This specialty instrument blessed by the US government can propel you into a very comfortable retirement. So this is an instrument for retiring well. Hang on. I need to move something. Okay, here we go. So, please enjoy the presentation. And before we start, my usual disclaimer that nothing in this presentation implies either legal or financial advice so please always vet your investments, do the right thing. When you, when you look at things, don't take other people's word for it, do it yourself. All right, so I think that's, that's it. Here's what will cover. And that is first what is a self directed IRA, and then how to retire with money in the bank. That sounds like that rings very nicely doesn't it. And then how to do that via investing in real estate in that account in the self directed IRA, and how the instrument works, and what next steps you might take. All right. The next part is just to tell you a little bit about myself you probably have, if you've attended previous presentations you already know most of this, but I'll repeat it. All right, so the first thing is that I have been in real estate for 20 years here in San Francisco and the Bay Area. I'm a longtime San Francisco resident, and I have a BA and an MA in history. And when I was raised in Germany. My parents were in the hospitality industry. I love to travel the world and learn about other cultures and people, and also, sorry, I'm moving too fast. I also, you know, love trekking when I have the time for it. Obviously, the pandemic is still with us so I haven't done any of that for the last what two years something like that. All right. So here we go. I'm probably aware that most Americans today must plan their own in retirement. And by that I mean they must plan how they intend to fund and afford their lifestyle in retirement. They need to have the monies the in in the right account. You probably also know that more than 60% of Americans today will depend on social security on friends and family, and on charity in their golden years their so called golden years that's a scary statistic. And to put that into context, there are people in between that, but only 5% of all Americans have sufficient monies in the bank to retire well. So hopefully this instrument will give you some ideas of how to join those 5% and bolster that percentage, because that's the whole idea. You want to be in that 5% if you can at all do it. That's my hope for you that's my hope for myself. And that's what I've been working for. So hopefully you'll find this helpful. All right. I'm not going to digress on that but you probably know that I am. I just wrote a book on the entire subject of self directed IRAs and so forth and there's a whole chapter in there, talking about how we got to this state of affairs that I just mentioned. So the book is coming out by the way on December 15 this year, and you'll see a special slide toward the end of the presentation about that. All right, next. So we basically want to go into what self directed IRAs actually are. You see that little piggyback there, and the idea is saving for retirement, but more than saving, being able to grow the money, you have. So you can do this with regular brokerage houses with stocks bonds, stocks bonds and mutual funds, etc ETFs, all of that. And those companies those brokerage houses also will tell you that you have a self directed IRA. Well, the reason I tell you that is, and it's true actually, is that you, you tell them what to invest in. What I tell you is that it's only their products you can invest in, which means stocks bonds, mutual funds, ETFs, all of that. And that's fine. I have nothing against that I have, I have stock stocks myself so I have no problem with that. But there is a whole different world out there for self directed IRAs. And that's what we're going to talk about today because truly self directed IRAs allow for you the investor to invest in what's called alternative assets. And alternative assets include real estate, and Bitcoin, private placements, all kinds of other stuff. But because I'm a real estate broker, you're hearing about real estate investing in these accounts today. That's what I'm going to discuss about. That's what I'm going to cover today. Obviously, we only have an hour together, which means that I can only go into the overview versus into all the specifics but hopefully you walk away with some value. All right, so self directed IRAs came into being in 1997 in the form that I'm talking about them today. Okay. So because of that let's go to the next part. I've already covered how they're different from other IRAs but to reiterate, they are the same as as as brokerage house IRAs except they're way bigger in terms of what you can invest in. And because of that brokerage houses will not be able to help you to invest in real estate. If you call them up today, they're going to tell you, no, we don't do that. And that's because it requires a specialty custodian to do that. And I'll get into that a little bit later. So that was the other important point that I wanted to bring to your attention. All right. Okay, so next part. Here's the man who wrote Roth IRAs into law in 1997 98. William Roth, who was a Republican of Delaware. He was a Senate Finance Committee member. And I believe he passed away in 2003 if memory serves but we thank William Roth, the senator for his contribution because he created an amazing instrument for us you'll see what I mean in just a minute. So that creation means that it, it with a Roth IRA. Okay, versus a traditional IRA. You can invest in money. Sorry, you can contribute to these IRAs. But you won't get tax benefits as you contribute, you will get the tax benefits when you make withdrawals from the account I'll go into that a little bit more. Christy, would you mind doing just a quick poll question to see who has self directed IRAs and you know what whether they have a traditional one or Roth one. Is that possible. Yes, Lee is going to do the poll. Oh, great. Great. Thank you. I'm sorry that first question that comes up on the poll is do you know what SD IRAs are. And start showing me the others. Okay, well, I guess we'll have to skip it hopefully someone will will let us know later whether they have such an account where they'd like one, whether they have traditional ones or regular ones. There we go. Thank you. I'm going to see if the next one will show up. Yeah, it's only showing this one. Unfortunately, are people actually see it. I was trying to skip to the actual, the question that you're asking them now. Oh, I see. Yeah. All right. You know, don't worry about it. We'll do it. We'll do it later. Maybe you can find it. I've got it. I've got it. I think we got everyone is that correct. Just about 22 of 23 so in the poll. Okay. All right. Well, okay, great. All right. Well, I see that most of you do not have a self directed IRA, and I want to encourage you to obviously get that. Get that set up hopefully I'll convince you to do so and to those of you who have such an account. Congratulations. I think that's wonderful. Okay, so hang on. I'm not sure how I'm going to get out of this. Okay, I think I got it. Oh, technology. It's so fun. All right. Thank you for participating in this. Okay, let's move on to the next. I cannot seem to advance my, my slide. Here we go. Okay, here we go. So here is a slide about the benefits of self directed IRAs now that picture could be anybody, not just as young family so forgive me if I have not included your age bracket in this. I have such account such an account so for a truly self directed IRA alternative investments are allowed. This is an instrument, the IRS regulates. So if you want to read all the fine print they have a wonderful wonderful publication called publication 590 on their website and you can read all about this instrument. If you want a more digestible component you can read my book or someone else's. All right, so depending on whether you have a traditional IRA, or you have a Roth IRA. It will be tax deferred for the traditional IRA and tax free growth for the Roth IRA. So there's a big difference. And I'll show you what I mean by that in just a second. Right. Now, this is, this is it. If you don't have those of you who don't have a self directed IRA at this point, you should be making contributions to such an account for a number of reasons, aside from the fact that social security is probably not going to support a retirement down the line. So the contribution limits I will show them to you. Again, this is this is a more superficial presentation in that I cannot go into all the details but the IRS has tables on what they allow etc. So if you go to their website they will be able you'll be able to see it all. Okay, so access to dollars you are saving anyway and that's about the annual contribution. Right. And then tax deferred I'm repeating myself here. So tax, tax deferred or tax free profits again I'll go into that. If you have a traditional IRA you're going to get a tax deduction on your tax return for the year you make the contribution. Okay, if you have a Roth IRA, you will not get such a deduction, but you will get something else that I will go into tax free profits. Okay, so you can also compound interest in these accounts depending on what you do with them with the properties you have in there. And then there is some asset protection, but qualification supply to that something I'm not going to go into here, just be aware that these are specialty accounts regulated by the IRS, and they, you know that they have some asset protection that not everything is protected so it depends on how you handle the account and various other thing. And then of course the biggest fit for self directed IRAs in this form is that you're creating wealth for retirement. And here's one and here's one that many people actually like and that is the accounts are inheritable. And because of that, you can also leave a legacy and will them to a nonprofit, for instance, so there are many different ways to gain benefit from these accounts. All right, but because we're talking about real estate investing in self directed IRAs because I'm a real estate broker once again. That's my special niche if you will. But we're talking about here, what you can invest in in these to count. Well, it includes anything from raw land to single family homes to apartment buildings to commercial real estate to parking lots to do plexes to come. I mean commercial I already mentioned to all kinds of other things. But I don't show on a slide, you can invest in notes mortgage notes, you can invest in options their option contracts you could do. I mean they're just, there's just a huge amount of variety as to what you could do. Okay, we'll come back to that. I'm going to give you a minute because it has implications for how much money might be in your account and how you can grow the account some people say that, you know, I don't have enough money to do any of this. And some people have accounts that have hundreds of thousands of dollars in them. And they can easily do this. For people who don't have that kind of money in their account and for those who don't yet have an account. Know that you can do much of this without having a huge amount of money in the accounts. Well, that should be like, right there, a big one for you, hopefully. So it's a contribution. Currently, the contribution limits for either traditional or Roth self directed IRA is $6,000 a year, unless you're over the age of 50, at which point it is $7,000 because the IRS the instrument, the whole point of this instrument is to grow people's accounts. And if you're over 50, you probably don't have that much time so time is a big factor in all investments. But the IRS will allow you $1,000 more if you're over age 50 for contributions so if you put that money in, you're probably going to if you do any math, you will see. And most likely you will not get rich on this contribution. So it's not about the contribution, you may do make the contributions to make the maximum, but the actual power of this is in how you use the contributions in the account. I hope that. So, next part here is, I've already mentioned the traditional IRA. So if you were to have a $25,000 initial investment, and you invested at either 12% or 15%. Here's what that would look like over, over 25 years. Now 12 and 15% to most people who have 401ks or 403Bs or whatever else is probably like a huge increase in what they would see in those accounts. So, you know, I believe for 401ks, the return is somewhere between three and 5% at the moment. Well that is not even covering inflation. So, so it's probably better to do something else with that money. Again, there are ways to do that but I won't go into how you can leverage your 401k or 403B right now. Anyway, this is one way to do it. So with this traditional one, you make that money but you have to, when you take it out, when you retire and you take your first distribution, the IRS will will impose tax on you. The idea with a traditional IRA, however, is that maybe you are in a 30 some percent a tax bracket today. And when you retire, you suddenly drop down to, I don't know, 15. I'm making up this number because I don't, I don't know what it would be. Okay, so it depends on your situation. Okay. So, so you would get taxed less, presumably. However, you would get taxed on whatever, however much money you have. So if you have a million dollars in the bank in that account, let's say it's taxed at 15%, that's $150,000 off the top, if you were to cash that out. Okay, so that's a big deal. Now for a Roth IRA, same growth, same timeline, that accounts grows way more because you are not getting the tax deduction when you make the contribution on your tax return. But in exchange, the instrument allows you in a Roth IRA. To get your profits to get what the growth in this account tax free zero tax. That's pretty amazing. I don't know too many instruments that actually would allow you that kind of a return. And that's the power of a Roth IRA. Okay. And when you put real estate in there, you, you can actually make more, but it depends on how you invest. So we'll get to that. So here's a slide that hopefully it should, it should ring a big bell for you. My opinion. And from my experience, these this kind of self directed IRA. It could be your ticket to a rich retirement. Well, that is as long as you understand and follow the IRS rules and will go into some of that we don't really have time to get into all the technicalities and complexities of it. But I'll give you just a bit of a of the rules. Okay. Again, you can read that long publication 590 the IRS publication. You can also read my book when it comes out, you'll get way more. But for today. Here is what the rules are. The first one and very important one is that you cannot purchase property, you already own in that IRA. So I always get people who say to me, Oh, I want to put my home in there. The IRS says, no, no, no, that we will not allow that. You cannot put property you already own, whether it's your own home, or an investment property if it's in your name, you cannot put it into a self directed IRA. That's a big one. But if you do do that if you if you, this actually applies to all the rules so I'll say it now. In case you're tempted to do to break the rules which most of us are sometimes, especially when we think they're wrong. Right. So, but if you do that and the IRS catches you, they will disqualify your account and you will be taxed at 100%. Nasty. So, don't do it. It's not worth it. That's, that's my take on it. All right. The next thing the IRS will not allow you to do is they have actually a whole explanation as to what a disqualified party is. You could, you know, could say, well, you know, I'll just do it in the name of my spouse or something like that, or, you know, my daughter, etc. Those are this disqualified parties you cannot do that. So you have to do it for yourself, not with other people who you who might be part of your family. Okay. The IRS will not allow that. There's also no indirect benefits. So you cannot pay yourself for any service you do for a property, for instance, in, in the account. You know, you can do if you want to do it yourself fine, but you cannot get paid for it. Okay, so everything must stay in that account. So next part, hang on. Is it moving. Yes, perfect. We're on the next slide. By the way, unfortunately, I couldn't get those points to do it to show up individually so I apologize for that. It does it on other slides but not this one. All right, so IRS, or IRA, sorry, Freud and slip. IRA investments are uniquely titled. What does that mean it means that you must have a custodian, and I'll go into that in just a second it's a specialty trust basically. You must have that set up that's where your account would sit. And then the way you purchase such an investment would be ABC trust company. You are named with your account and your name under that. So it's specific to that custodian and that account, which is also why custodians play a very important role in this instrument. Again, I'll go into into it more. Now, the, the investments actually. Hang on, I need to take a sip of water. Thank you. So, you could actually take out a loan in the in the self directed IRA. So, if you wanted to buy, let's say an apartment building, and you had maybe $100,000 sitting in the account, or even less than that. And you could take out what's called a non recourse loan. And with that loan, it's a specialty loan so your bank will not be able to make this loan, it's a higher risk loan. And you also have to have more of a down payment for it, etc. But all of that, I will just briefly touch on which I just did. But the most important component is if you have debt financing in your IRA, in your self directed company, you can have it, it's not a problem. But what happens is, whatever profits come, let's say from that apartment building example that I just gave you the IRS will will tax you on the financing you get for that it's it's unrelated business income taxes that they will, they will assess, and that's not for the entire amount it is for the growth that investment generates that's what they will will do, but I'm not a CPA. I probably ought to speak with someone find a CPA who understands this instrument, because many of them don't, unfortunately. So speak with someone who actually knows and, and, and I'll, you know, again, there are ways for you to, to find out how to figure where to find these people. Okay. Alright, so the next two ones are very important and they come back to what I said on the previous slide and that is every expense for your apartment building in this example. It has to be written from that a self directed IRA account, you cannot take out your personal checkbook and write a check for an expense. That's that's a no no. And the same thing. It also happens when whatever income let's say you have 10 units in that in that apartment buildings they're all occupied, you're collecting rents in that building from your tenants, and those rents obviously are income. So you cannot get that income into your personal bank account it must flow back into your self directed IRA account that's the whole purpose of this to grow your account so that you will have the money when you retire. Okay, so hopefully that makes sense. Now, having said this, let's go to another big piece and that I already addressed that briefly and that is the importance of your custodian. So when I started in this, in this particular niche, some 20 years ago, most people are many people had no idea that self directed IRAs existed, and then you could invest in alternative assets through them. Okay. There were only two or three custodians at the time. So you didn't have much choice well now. It's a big industry, and it's very tough sometimes to figure out who, who is who and what you would get from them. So here's what to look for. Kirstie before I start on that, did you want to say something to, I think I put a bonus in for people. Yes, we'll be sharing your bonus document listing custodians, and how to evaluate them in the follow up email. Great. So, you can look forward to that. I, there's a good amount of research that was done for you. So you'll get a four page document and it will get you off to a running start in looking for the right custodian. If you're so inclined. So looking for that custodian here it is. Look for accessibility. I've had custodians. I'm on my third one. Unfortunately, but I've had two of the previous ones, you know they they hired people from the Philippines well that's great. I love I love them, except they a had no idea what to tell me so it all became an accessibility game. And plus, some of the knowledge that was missing from from those custodians so eventually I moved to the third one and now I'm happy. But I learned the hard way, and that document that you're going to get hopefully will save you that time. Okay, that time the experience all of that. So when you look for custodian make sure they know what customer service means, and they call you back in a timely fashion. They are able to address your questions, etc. Now, the fee structure for these custodians is higher than what a, let's say a brokerage house would charge you. Most of the fees for a brokerage house you will not see because they're either factored into the investment price. It's already you've already paid for it and you don't even know it. It's a specialty fee on top of that. But most of the time, you will not really see much of that for brokerages, but for for these custodians. Because it's a specialty custodian, and it's a higher risk kind of investment from a custodian's point of view, their fees are going to be higher. So I just know that. But here's the thing. Who cares if you make profits that way outweigh those fees, please, you know, talking about how expensive they are is probably not the right thing to pursue. Again, my opinion, you make up your own mind. So, and then turn around time so because their contracts underlying all of these investments in real estate anyway, you need to know that what their turnaround times are, because everything has to go through them through that custodian all the paper goes through them, and you want to make sure that they have reasonable turnaround times. In my opinion anywhere between three to five business days, but some of them, you know, might be a little longer some of them might even be shorter usually you can expedite things, but you'll pay a fee for that. I just know that. Okay. So those, those are important and then knowledge about self directed our investments. A custodian who knows very little about self directed IRAs, which is kind of unlikely but it happens probably is not the right custodian. Yeah, so you just need to need to know that. And then how long this particular custodian has been in business and check out their customer rating it's important. It's not the end all, which is why it's last on this list, but it is important. So check it out. Right, so now the big decision for you is, is this instrument even close to anything you would consider for yourself. I hope the answer is yes, because the benefits are huge, depending on how you use it. Okay. So I'm going to go into the seven steps of tax free profits which means I'm focusing on Roth IRAs we're not talking about returns in the in traditional IRAs. I personally like Roth IRAs if you have a traditional one it's fine. You might consider rolling it over into a Roth. Again, that's all that's something to discuss with your CPA and other professionals who can help you assess that whether it's the right move for you. So just just keep that in mind. Anyway, we're talking about Roth IRAs. So that's why I say tax free profits. The first and obvious step is to establish and then to fund an account so you could fund such an account by either rolling things over from another IRA into one that allows you to invest in real estate, or you could just start with your annual contribution and move from there. So that's one way. When you're, once you've done that, then identify your investment. Maybe it's paper. Maybe it's I'm a big fan for instance of note investing, you can make some very nice, nice returns on that, and all you need to do it's tied to real estate but you don't own the real estate. It actually guarantees you the return that's being paid. So what's happening here is you become the bank, your money works at a nice interest rate for you versus a 3% one. Okay, or 1%. I don't even know what banks pay today. Anyway, so that's one. Ensure the correct title for your investment. And that I've already touched on that you have to take title with the custodian first, then your account number and your name follow. Do not do it in your personal name. It is. It's a no no, and a good custodian if you submit paperwork to them that shows your personal name on it and not the right titling, they will call you up or send you a message saying, please redo this. Right. Because they can't accept it. There's liability in that for them. Okay. So once you've done that then eventually you have to request that for the custodian to fund your investment. So funds then go into to the person you're investing with, etc. Or you're purchasing it from directly from the custodian you cannot write a personal check. There's one way to get around that with a checkbook, LLC that's specific to such accounts, but I'm not focusing on that here because it's a it's an instrument that is probably not the most important one for beginners, and also way more complex. Okay, so I'm just going to go from here. Let's see. And we're continuing so once you you've asked a custodian to transfer funds for the investment. They then remit the funds, and they keep records for you. Now that's nice. But the big caveat is, yes, they do. Do it yourself as well, please. It's just good practice. And it will save you a lot of headaches down the line doing that. All right, and then maintaining your IR investment. Let's come back to the apartment building. So if you have an apartment building you will probably have property taxes to pay or maintenance or repairs. Let's see management property management all of that that would have to be done through your self directed IRA account. So make sure you maintain things make sure you check in on the investment in that account, etc. And that's the basis. Most custodians will send you a quarterly statement but you should probably you just set up your own schedule. Okay, and then the next one is and that sounds easy, hold the investment and eventually sell the apartment building that you bought 10 years ago. And you're selling that tomorrow, or putting it on the market tomorrow you're probably going to see a very nice appreciation. Aside from the rents you collected when you sell that thing. So that's where you make profits. That's where your pound grows. And by the way, tax free, because we're talking about a Roth. That's that that's what I'll say here. Okay, so next here's just a brief schematic for you a brief picture of how all of this looks. Everything comes from that self directed IRA custodian which is why you give the instructions to them, but they are performing those or they're carrying out your instructions so very important for you to choose a good custodian. When you, you can trust that's now now you can see there's so many different pieces here that the fees that the custodian charges are probably less important when you because doing this yourself. It's not as easy as it appears I'll just leave it there. So let's go to real estate investing. Here are the steps. Hey, set your sales if you've attended any previous presentations by me, you will know that I'm big about having a plan, having a strategy. And this is as true for self directed IRAs as it is for anything else. So please, before you set up the account or while you set up the account, make sure you know what you want to accomplish set your sales. And yeah, otherwise, it might be a rudderless ride. Okay, then you go to locating possible investments there are lots of different ways to do that I've talked about some of those in previous presentations. And again, the book that's coming out has more on that. Once you've done that run the numbers, just run it as a business from the start. And make sure that those numbers align and they make sense, because sometimes expenses can wipe you out. You need to know ahead of time how to mitigate this, how to mitigate any risk. So those properties might hold for you so run the numbers, then check the facts, the neighborhood, the markets. You know, who would be your tenants for instance that kind of stuff check facts. Make sure you do all this. By the way there is a due diligence checklist that comes as a bonus to the book. So if you're not getting that today if you do buy the book, you will get it. Okay. Now, because everything in real estate is contractual. You must read those contracts you must understand them, or have someone who can help you understand them. And make sure you assess all the terms in those contracts so so all the fine print is clear. Okay. And obviously other components but I'm giving you what is right right out the gate what's most important. Okay, there are other things so just remember that. So having said all of this, I know it's a lot of information. I hope you're good to go. So yeah, that's my big hope check on you know make sure you check it all out. So here's here's an example for a single family home. Now, the purchase price, obviously would not get that purchase price in San Francisco or the Bay Area. So you have to go elsewhere to do it, and versus going through the whole thing. You'll get the idea so you have to factor all those costs into into the property so it's like doing real estate except any any transaction except you're doing it in your self directed IRA. All right, so here is, here's the other thing. You know, I just noticed that I don't think I put the. Oh yes, the rent is on there so the monthly income on this property is 1500 which force for a property with that purchase price is probably right on or very close to it and then the other components here you have to you have you have to account for that. Now the cash on cash return there's a whole section in my book about cash on cash return in your self directed IRA I recommend that you have a cash on cash return of about 15% or more. It's easy as it appears to get that. So doing your homework and and going through a lot of different properties to figure out what actually works would be the way to go. All right, so here is an example for duplex. Obviously a different price. The costs are adjusted for that. You see the rental income there and all the other parts that would actually give you show you what that investment would net you at the end of having paid all the expenses dealt with lots of other things so you need to know all those numbers. It's a part of running the numbers but these are two examples. And hopefully you see that creating true wealth for you for yourself and your family is entirely possible in this instrument. We thank the US government for for providing it to us by the way currently there is there is a legislation in process that wants to take all of this away from us. And it's not happened and who knows whether it will or won't, but keep your eyes peeled for that you want to make sure to keep this lovely and no pensions are coming. Social Security who knows what's going to happen with that so create your wealth yourself. This way, that's one way to do it now you can do it with Bitcoin etc. Again, that's not what I'm doing. Because that's not my expertise. Okay, so, but you might have other ideas. All right. All right, so the takeaways are start of the plan, not surprising after what I said about strategy. Evaluate custodians opened an account and funded. Now, on that particular point, I sometimes have people who do that, and then never do anything with the account. Well that's an expensive way of losing money. I mean, if you don't use the instrument it's not going to do anything for you. So make sure you not only open it and fund it but you use it. That's where the power is just having one doesn't help. Okay, so go ahead and do that follow IRS rules, my big one here. Yeah, follow the rules because they're actually in your favor. Okay, even though there are people who say they aren't because they'd like to have their home in there and you know they're thinking about other creative ways to increase their wealth. That the IRS will not allow you to do. So, but anyway, there you go. So you will not get rich from your contributions, your annual contributions, always contribute the maximum. It has a magical effect. If you do that for several years you'll see what I mean. So just take my word for it. Well, you don't have to take my word for it. I'm just saying that do it. It's, it's better to do it and then use the account. Okay. Do your homework. I harp on that all the time just do your homework. There are many people out there, some of them sophisticated who know how to fleece others. And the reason that happens is oftentimes not always but oftentimes is that people want something convenient. So they just believe the person because they like him or whatever. They haven't done their homework. So, please join the group that does homework and do all your homework and then build a team because investing is a team sport. Your custodian is a big part of that team. So finding the right one is important. You probably want to have the right realtor, wherever you invest the right, you know, all kinds of other things that you could do. And now, having said all of this, I will just remind you that all investments, and I mean all investments carry risk. So you probably ought to know what's important for you, you know what that's that comes back to your plan. And just make sure you understand that and then move forward accordingly. Okay. All right, I hope you got some value from this now I'm just going to tell you this. Some of you may know Jim Rohn. I'm a big fan of his. And I'll just tell you that he was a motivational speaker, no longer with us. Unfortunately, and you know, I put this quote up here start from wherever you are. And with whatever you've got. And the reason this is here is that I, I speak with many people, you probably do to who say, Oh, I don't have enough money. Oh, I don't have the expertise. Oh, I can't do this for whatever reason. Okay. But the truth is, or I'm too old or I'm too young or whatever. But if you don't start you're not going to see any results. That's that's really the truth. And so it doesn't matter what you've got it matters how you leverage what you've got. So for some people who have gotten enough no money, leveraging your brain is probably just as important. Well, it's true for all of us that that it's just important to leverage what you've got so it's not all about money, but it is. It's very important to do that. All right, so that's it so here's a special offer for you because this book and there here's the title right there is coming out on December 15. And if you'd like to, I think you're sending a questionnaire right that I the question that I put together later. Yeah, yeah. So on that questionnaire, there will be a question. Sorry. All right. There will be a question on there as to why, whether you would like to receive an official announcement when the book is publishers. And if you do then please say yes and fill out your email address and I will put you on the list of people who will learn about about the book publishing. Okay. And an extra special offer is I because you're the first group I'm actually presenting this to about the book, etc. So if you have a limited number of review copies available. If you would like to get one. Please just ask. And I'm happy to send it to you. Obviously, it would be wonderful if you then read it and provided an honest review of it. I mean, that's the dream of every author. I'm happy to send it out there to you if you would like the review copy it's going to come to you in electronic format. But if you'd like it, I'm happy to send it to you. So just let me know. All right. Okay, I think that's it and then the bonus that the we already talked about is coming from Christie she's going to send that out alongside the questionnaire. Not for you today I hope you got some value from this raise your hand if you did or just let me know. And yeah, I wish you great success. I wish you great success with this so. Yeah, and thank you to the San Francisco Publix library for putting on programs like this. I'm always delighted to give back to the library. I use it extensively. And I really love what the library is doing with its programming and I hope you do too. All right, so here we go that's that's it. Thank you again. Do you have any questions I don't know what do we have time for questions that we've had a few minutes for questions and there are quite a few in the chat. Yes. How late would you like to to stay on to answer the questions Gabrielle. Let me see I don't know what time it can you tell me what time it is right now. It's 157. Okay, so if we do 10 minutes that that would work but I would like because I don't have my clock right in front of me. If you would please time it that would be great. Okay, great. I'm going to start at the top. Someone asked if we are nearing retirement, can we still do the SD Roth IRA. The answer is yes. Thank you. And then this was referring to an early slide but someone asked condos and I guess she wants to know that condos can be considered as it. Yes. Okay. So I'm giving you short yeses, but you know they're always qualifier on these so you need to know more about the instrument in order to see whether condos make sense, whether. So if you're nearing retirement, yes you can do this absolutely. Maybe you have a different account you, you could roll over I don't know. If you're already retired, you probably have a 401k plan that you could roll over into into a self directed IRA. Now if you're not retired, doing that, you can do it but it for it's not most companies if your company has one has a 401k or 403 B, they will not allow you to do it because they want you to stay with their plan. So all depends on what you're again coming back to the plan to the strategy to seeing what you already have and how best to do it. So that would be it. Yeah. So the short answers are yes, and then they're qualifiers. Okay. Thanks, Gabrielle. Here's another question. If you annually contribute the maximum amount to a 401k. Can you also have an SD IRA. Yes. Okay, thank you. However, here, here's the thing. So if you so if you contribute to a 401k is was that the question. Yes. Okay, so 401k. I don't know what your contribution limit is I don't know which company you have that plan through all of that. Similarly, you can set up a self directed IRA anyway, so that because you're doing that yourself usually however so you could have I have two self directed IRAs. Okay, one is with my my stock broker with my with with the brokerage has in which I cannot do anything but do stock sponsor mutual funds, etc. Right. One is with with an account that allows me to invest in real estate and other alternative assets. Now here's the thing I have two accounts. If you have two accounts, you need to figure out how much you want to contribute to each, because what happens is, with those two accounts I have, I can decide, maybe I want to contribute 5000 to my self directed IRA, where I invest in real estate, which would be a higher number for me because that's what I want to do most of my investing in real estate. And then let's say I'm in the bracket that allows me to do a total contribution of 7000, I could contribute the, the remaining 2000 into the brokerage house. Anyway, which is, which is a, I say SCI, they usually will say, you know, it's a regular IRA, which is, which is fine that it's self directed as far as that brokerage house is concerned anyway. So the point of this is that you cannot contribute 7000 each to both accounts you can only contribute the total allowed per year to the accounts meaning it has to be the total for both accounts you cannot just go. Oh yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to do this for this account for this account for this account. You, it must be the grand total for all accounts that are self directed IRAs. I hope that makes sense. Thank you. There's another question. If the real estate invested in cannot be your own property or that of a disqualified party who you are familiar with, then what property would you possibly be interested in investing in. Well, that's a good thing. It's going to be your property owned through your self directed IRA, you just can't put your personal name on it. Okay, so that's one. So it's an investment property so all investments in those accounts. So your own home is not an investment contrary to what some people will tell you. Okay. And your own home. Yeah, you might make a profit down the line with it but initially you need a place to live like everybody else. So it's not an investment you're paying for that either by with a mortgage or property or whatever. So it's the thing is this, the IRS will not allow you to own your own home in that account because then everybody, you know, goes, Oh yeah, I live there. This is a nice little bonus to me. So they want you to invest in any property that would generate income for you. That is, that is it now income can be regular brands that come in, or you buying a property and then selling it down the line for a huge profit. It can be both but it must be an investment property it cannot just be as something, you know, you are, you already own, whether that's your own home, or an investment property that's outside the S, the self directed IRA. I hope you get the distinction here. So what would you invest in any property that generates income for you. That's a short answer. I think you answered this but someone asked early on, can we use SDI rate to help buy a house for our children. Yes, this name should own the house. No, that's that's those are disqualified parties. You can so if you want to do something that benefits your children. Those accounts are inheritable. And there are also other ways to do it but you need to speak to a CPA who's familiar with the instrument. But, you know, you can't so it's a disqualified party, your child would be a disqualified party. So would your son in law or a daughter in lobby. So, so you have to just be aware of those rules. Someone was wondering if you could share who your custodian is. Well, I don't want to. I would rather you read my bonus document to you, you'll see the custodian is on there by the way, but you'll, you'll see the differences between the custodians. And I would almost think that you're going to choose that particular custodian just because you see the difference. Okay, but I prefer not to give like an advertisement for custodian. Thank you. And this is covered in your bonus document too but someone asked what are the general range of these that are charged. Again, it depends. I like if you have a million dollar account which some people do. They will charge more for that account because it takes more management it takes a whole different oversight all of that. And so some of those fees are tiered. Okay. But overall, you're going to look at on the low end, something like. You are between $300 a year to thousands of dollars a year depending on what you have in that account, and so forth if you have a very basic account of 300 a year is probably right on. So just make sure they're not uniquely in diving you for every transaction you do you want to have it rolled into the the annual fee versus paying transaction fees on every asset that becomes expensive. So, again, look at the look at the bonus that you're going to get. And I think we'll demystify a lot of stuff for you. Someone wanted to clarify. Are you suggesting that Roth IRAs are more truly SD IRA compared to traditional IRAs because in a traditional you cannot invest in real estate but you can invest in real estate using the SD IRA. No, I'm not suggesting that and the reason is that you can invest in real estate and either the traditional one, or in the Roth IRA. The difference is, if you do it with a traditional one, you will pay taxes on your gains at the end, when you get distributions. If you, however, invest in a Roth IRA, your gains will be tax free. That's the difference there. You can still invest in the same instrument and that's, you know, so when you find a custodian and you say I want to open an account with you, they're going to ask you. Would you like to open a traditional IRA or a Roth IRA. Now, if you already have a traditional one, you know, then you have to decide whether you want to pay tax on what you have right now, and roll it over into a Roth, or whether you just want to keep the traditional one you pay tax on it later so it depends on your situation. It's not like one size fit all kind of answer, which almost nothing in real estate is unfortunately. Yeah, so to make it clear. Apparently, there was something I didn't say correctly, but in either of these the traditional and the Roth account you could invest in real estate. Not with your brokerage chance, but with a specialty custodian. I hope that clears it up. Thank you Gabrielle I think I misread the question it. Oh, so that's, I think. I'm sorry about that it just is the chat scroll. I kind of lost control of the scroll. I'm not a problem so what what what did the question actually say so I'm giving a big tirade about about that. So, let me let me hear the question please. Okay, she wanted to clarify. Are you suggesting that Roth IRAs are more truly an SD IRA compared to traditional IRAs because in a traditional, you cannot invest in real estate but you can invest in real estate using a Roth IRA. I can answer the question so I heard it correctly so yes you can invest in both of them in real estate as long as you set it up with the right custodian. So if you call Schwab or or E trade or Mara trade or something like that, and you say I want to now invest my money that's sitting in either one of these accounts with you in real estate, they're going to say no. That's not what they do you have to, you have to do it with a custodian that is set up to help you do real estate and other alternative investments. Time right now it's to 10 do you know. So if people want to contact you can they do that through your email. Yes. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. So what I will say is I have a super busy schedule. And I'm happy to answer what I can. You know, but it may take me a little while to get to it. So please don't think I've forgotten you. I will answer it as soon as I as I have the time to do so. I hope you understand. I can also share the chat questions with you. Make it easier for you Gabrielle. I have a hard time hearing you, I can share that the questions in the chat with you. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would be great and I mean I don't know whether emails there but if you really want to have your question answered just email me and I'm happy to answer them. As far as I can obviously. Okay, so there have been lots of comments in the chat to that say that they want to receive a copy of review copy and so the. So I only have 10 review copies available. So the first 10 people who put that in. Just please let me know who those are Christie and I will be happy to share this. Great, thank you. Yeah, I'm sorry that not everybody's going to get fun. Well thank you so much Gabrielle for another great presentation and again we'll be sharing her bonus document and the recording to this presentation and the follow up email later today. Thank you again everyone I hope you got value. Thank you Gabrielle was wonderful. Thanks. Okay. Thank you very much bye bye.