 Y nôrdengrwp, the Arroy Youth Awareness Forum, have asked that Professor Ishaq Qintola led Muslim Rights Concern, Morig, and the Christian Association of Nigeria to consider floating political parties instead of dictating to the two major political parties, the People's Democratic Party and the All Progressive Congress, over choices of presidential running mates. AYAF expressed concern over the two religious bodies' interference in the affairs of the APC and the PDP. Well, joining us to discuss this is a political analyst, Bjornal Sholmi, and the Chairman, Christian Association of Nigeria, Cydunus State Chapter, Reverend Joseph Hyab. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining us. Okay, great. So I'm going to start with you until we get Bjornal back. So this is a group of bodies telling you, a group of people telling you to stay clear of what's happening within the two major political parties and also, you know, detailed for all other political parties, and that if you are too concerned, you should go start your own political parties. And I know that Khan, under Bishop Francis Walioke, had at some point stated, you know, what these political parties should do in terms of the issue of a Muslim-Muslim ticket or a Muslim-Christian ticket. But I'll ask you, why is Khan so concerned about what the religion of the party flag bearer and the running mate is? Thank you very much for asking me. Honestly speaking, I would have refused to participate in this conversation because the group in question is not even worthy of our response. And number two, Khan and Murik are not equal partners. Khan speaks with Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, not with Murik. But because we live in a democracy where people can express their views. So sometimes when people express views, there's nothing wrong for us to educate them. Let's put this clear, that politics is about people. There is no one that is excluded in the issue of politics and governance of Islam. One of the error is that there are so many ignorant Christians out there who probably want to receive applause from people, and they will say that you see Christians clearly supposed not to be involved in politics, they get it wrong. Let me put it clear. The Bible says when the righteous are in leadership, the people rejoice. How can the righteous be in leadership if those who call themselves people of God do not participate in the process of bringing up the righteous? The Bible also says that the land, the art and the schoolness there all belongs to God. If I am a child of God, that means this world, this land, this nation belongs to my father and I have to take care of it. So our involvement in politics is to show how important politics is to the development of our society. How important politics is to the governance of our society. How important politics is to the way life is shaping in our society. So what we are doing is not to impose. If we keep quiet, this is a political system, we ask, where are our clergy? What are they saying? So what we are doing is to offer suggestions, one, for the unity of Nigeria, two, for the peace of Nigeria, three, for togetherness of this country and good governance. So I have listened to many arguments when people come around and say they are looking for competence, it's not about faith, when they mean it. Are you telling me that there are no competence people in Christianity? Are you telling me that there are no competent people in Islam? Are you telling me there are no competence pagans in Nigeria? Those who do not have faith, but put it across to those who bring this argument. If we today decide that the governor of Kaduna State will be Christian and the deputy governor will be Christian, will Nigeria no peace? Yes, if we are talking about competence, we have them in millions. But because we want to be together, because we want to work together and our constitution also talks about peddra character. Peddra character may not mention religion, but peddra character talks about carrying every Nigerian alone. Imagine a situation where we will have the president of Nigeria, from Kaduna State, the vice president of Nigeria, from Kaduna State, the SGF of Nigeria, from Kaduna State, the speaker of the president of the Senate from Kaduna State and the speaker of House of Representatives from Kaduna State, will there be peace in Nigeria just because they are capable of, before you start arguing about the subject, after understanding where people are coming from. I'm curious, and I'll quickly ask you this before I go to Biyadu. When a person is canvassing, I'm just asking, I'm not in any way trying to attack anyone, when a person is canvassing to lead Nigeria, he's not saying I want to be a Muslim president of Nigeria. I want to be the president of the Christians in Nigeria. He says, I want to lead Nigeria. Why should religion have any play or any role in this? I'm not also saying that we should not consider religion because we're a religious set of people. We're a secular country. We have all kinds of religion at play. But should, whether you be a Christian or a Muslim, should your priority not be about changing Nigeria? Because I'm guessing that if you're Muslim, Islam is a religion of peace. In other words, whatever you do should be in the betterment or in the interests of Nigerians and to bring peace. So why should we be emphasizing that, oh, if we don't have Muslims and Christians together on one ticket, we cannot doubt the tension in the country? Please educate me. Why can't that not be a thing that we jettison? And just look at how a person can bring peace. My lead boss is Excellency Patrick Ibrahim Yakoa. In his acceptance speech precisely in May 2010, when he became the first Christian to be governor of Kaduna State, he made a very nice speech by saying that I'm not going to be a Christian governor. All newspapers in Nigeria took that as the main headline of their news the next day. But certainly that was a man who suffered religion issue as far as governance is concerned. You see, what we are simply saying in this country is that we are not as visitors to Nigeria. We know this country. We understand this country. If religion is not a matter, simple, let's look for the best pagan. The second person to be the best, a vice president to be the best pagan. Will everybody clap for that? Let's look for the best Christian. The vice president should also be a very good Christian. Will everybody clap for that? Whatever is good for the ganda is good for the ganda is good for the ganda. So what we are simply saying is we are dealing with a situation we know ourselves in Nigeria. And we cannot shy away from the things that are holding us, from the things that are dividing us, from the things that are creating tension. We are simply saying, why don't you go on and bring any Christian who just because he's a Christian to be governor. We are saying or to be first student. We are saying is that if you are looking for experts, if you are looking for quality leaders, if you are looking for people who would deliver the food, they are in every tribe in Nigeria. They are in every region in Nigeria. They are in every religion of Nigeria. So we should go in the spirit of togetherness, find them in all these different identities. Because in Nigeria, the issue of identity has always been a very serious challenge. Let's not pretend about this. Let's not shy away again about it. Because I'm from Te Dunia, I will say this. In one of the national television recently, my governor came out and said the issue of Muslim-Muslim is nothing. Because they have tried it in Kaduna. Can we be honest that in the last four years, Kaduna has been what you will be proud about? What are the achievements? Is that what we want? Do we just want to be leaders without carrying and uniting the people? Even the most backward community wants to feel their voice is hard. Want to ensure that they are part of the decision making in building their nation, in building their community. But the situation where we do not balance in the way we are doing and we are saying that religions do not matter. Okay, we agree that it does not matter. But remember, if it applies to you, it shouldn't also matter. We can also just ask the South West to give us a president and vice president and everybody because it doesn't matter. Okay, let me go to be able to show me. Be able to, you're somewhat of a politician. And let's look at it from a purely political perspective. Because there seems to be a lot of bickering about this Muslim-Muslim ticket. In fact, we're yet to hear from the APC who the running mate to the flag bearer is because today is the deadline. And that's his detail, like I said earlier on, for all the political parties. And I asked, just as I asked him, in 2022, should we be worried about the religion of the people who lead us? Or should we be looking at their pedigree, their antecedents? And of course, if they are capable of bringing peaceful and of course, a progressive governance. Yes, in the past, the essence of the discourse on Muslim-Muslim tickets or Muslim-Christian or Christian-Muslim tickets is about national development. Huge emphasis on human development and economic development. And when you take it from that viewpoint, you then ask yourself, what has religion gots to do with proven experience on service delivery to the people of Nigeria? What has the religious faith of anyone gots to do with sense of justice, sense of fairness, creating employment for the people of Nigeria? That is the starting point. But when you not stretch it a bit further, you now ask yourself, after all, Nigeria is a secular thing. How come we're only talking about two religions, Christian and Muslim? What happened to the original African traditional religious practitioners? Christianity made them here. Islam made them here. Nobody's talking about it. They're only talking about the rivalry between two religions. You know, which in any case are foreign to our own country. And that is what is shaping the discourse, rather than proven experience, ability to contribute to national development. When you take, for instance, in Lagos Bay, we had a governor in the name of Aki Ambode, whose wife had to sack the priest of a church in Alawsa, not only sack him from employment, he was a victim from his house. Aki Ambode is a Christian. When he was dog-knocked, he was a Christian. He was a Christian, attending the same church. He was not a Muslim. So for me, I think it's more about the attitude of individuals. If you're a Christian and you choose to be a Christian, so be it. If you're a Muslim, you choose to be. So be it. You're a traditional practitioner. So be it. The emphasis of what we need to move our country forward is to not be on the basis of the religious confections of faith, because religion by itself will not contribute to national development in the real sense of it, rather than creating the right spiritual environment, developing people to be able to tolerate each other and live harmoniously. But beyond that, it only will contribute anything meaningful to economic development. Rather, it has such in some cases as a driver for under development. And you can see the whole place in all around the government. We are industries. Industries we are taking over by churches. Industries we are building together. I think that we're having connection issues there again with you, Mr Showby. Unfortunately, we have to let you go. But quickly, Reverend Hyab, we have just one minute. We're talking about peace here. We want this, if not for the first time after 1993 to be the most peaceful elections in Nigeria's history. And for those of us who are peace scholars, we know that there are eight pillars of peace and religion plays a role one way or the other in it. But how can we also douse tension without also heating up the polity with this issue of religion as part of the tickets? How do we peacefully address this issue going forward so that we don't use it or arm people with this make it a tool of division again, even though we're trying to unite Nigerians. But let's not also, you know, incite people to say, well, if you don't give me somebody that looks like me or goes to the same kind of place of worship like me, then we're going to cause trouble. And so in looking at building peace before, during and after the elections, what do we do? I'm only saying if you do not cook the kind of food we want to eat, we will not eat your food. Because I do not eat your food, it's not war. I'm simply saying that this is the kind of meal I want to eat for my stomach. I don't want to eat a meal that will create problems to my system. I want to eat a meal that will bring health and bring strength to me. So we are simply saying to the political parties that, look, for the sake of unity, for the sake of togetherness, look for a combination that will unite, a combination that will promote peace, not because we are going to go to war. It's simply if your kind of meal is not good for us, don't blame us for not eating your meal. We would have loved to eat your meal, but we are not going to eat a meal that the combination is not good for our stomach. But let me put it clear for Nigerians to know that Christians have actually never had a problem with who leads and who do not lead. Christians can remind Nigerians that we have ever voted for a Muslim-Muslim in Nigeria. And the fact is that it was even a Muslim president who annulled the election. We don't have a problem with that. But gradually experience have begun to show that it is only when it is about us that no, there is not issue about religion. But when it turns to the other side, no, it must not be, we are not going to take it, we are growing in this country. That's why it is not fair, it's not right for you to act contrary because another time will come. People will remember what you did yesterday. When Adiola and Kingibe were elected, if they were not elected on the basis of religion, Christians and Muslims went out and elected them. But the moment leadership started having a color of religion, time will not permit me to give you the history of how a religion came into power, the service that was held and what triggered the sharia that caused all the conflict. That's why we want a team that will unite the country, a team that will carry everybody in the country, but we are not asking for nobis. We have to go. We have to go. And there are good people in every place. All right, Reverend Joseph Hyab is the chairman of the Christian Association of Nigeria Kaduna State Chapter and Beoddus Showme is a political analyst. Unfortunately, we lost contact with him. Thank you so much gentlemen for speaking with us. Well, that's it tonight on the show. We want to say thank you. We hope you enjoyed the week of conversations. We'll be back next week Monday as the political stories keep brewing. We're here to report it and ask the right questions. I'm Mary Anna Cohn. Have a good evening.