 Hey, everyone. Good afternoon Thank you for a moment as afraid of no one in the room I'm Larry Mido I am International correspondent at CNN such a pleasure to be here to lead this panel on advancing racial and ethnic equity And I'm really excited to have my esteemed panel joining me from the extreme left Miss Angela F. Williams president and CEO of United Way worldwide. Please give a bit of honor of applause Very enthusiastic. I love that. Mrs. Simon Freakly see of Alex partners Miss Pamela El Carter a member of the board of directors Hewlett pocket enterprise and My fellow young global leader means Luana de Sousa Martin's Geno executive director of the Brazilian Identities Institute I'm so glad we're having this conversation literally just a few days after the birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr who was a civil rights icon and And when this initiative came up from the World Economic Forum, it came out of a place of hurt and pain and I In 2020 when George Floyd was murdered I was covering North America for the BBC and I've interviewed the Floyd family and covered the trial of Derek Chauvin Literally every word that was said in the courtroom And I think one of the beautiful things that came out of that experience was the diversity equity and inclusion initiatives from Organizations globally that have set to find a standard to make sure that they're walk places their organizations are more inclusive But there's a long way to go and we can all agree on that right There's still a lot more that needs to be done to make sure there's a way to track that and there's a way that companies are doing Better organizations from every corner of the world and so I'm glad on this panel We've got representation from Latin America from the US from Europe and we can have a real honest Conversation about this and I just want to mention a quick plug here that this panel Bills on the work the World Economic Forum is already doing And they're working towards better accountability to gain greater clarity on the current gaps at organizational level And so the World Economic Forum has an initiative called partnering for racial justice in business and this week just two days ago They launched a report It's called global racial and ethnic equity self assessment framework they launched a framework that you can download now for your own Organization the QR code is back there. It's up on the screen So please feel free to do that because it's useful to frame this conversation But also to bring back to your own organizations, but I want to go straight into it and begin with Where do you see the biggest challenges? currently for advancing racial and ethnic equity and Where are those the progress right? I don't want to just talk about the negative bits But there has to be some positive in this as well So the advantages or disadvantages the progress the weaknesses Luana, I'm gonna start with you. Oh, thank you So, yeah, I'm Luana, you know I come from Brazil from Rio de Janeiro and we work with basically inclusion the labor market especially with data policy making and You know providing tools and education for companies especially for decision makers White decision makers mostly to actually be more intentional on hiring decisions But in a holistic view as well. So I brought like six points But I'll be really quick to go through context on things or we are moving forward or not First of all, you're mentioning like a George Floyd situation in Brazil. We kill a George Floyd like every 23 minutes. So That's our reality George Floyd's and ended up to be a broad-casid case But that case happens like in a daily basis. So we need to think more about that But we are we are going through now a plateau from our experiences So it means that we had a lot of companies who engaged with pledges around the world But now they're not pledging anymore or they are somehow stuck it in You know, the challenges they want of they are facing or even the good things they they have been doing I mean the pledges were good good measures, but now we need to move forward Second thing in Brazil right now. We changed our government now is a more progress is government But it doesn't mean necessarily that we will have like racial equity right away, right? So we need to have civil society companies and governments being to be intentional about it Otherwise, it doesn't move forward automatically Third I would say like keep up. We have we still are facing difficulty to keep up the pace I think like what we've we've experienced it from George Floyd's You know situation and murdered the crime we see we saw and we what we see now Is that we actually advanced a lot in this those past two years? But now we need to keep up the pace then is it because the matter is no longer in the news and therefore There's not that much interest. It seems like companies have a lot of difficulty to actually tie the ESG agenda with the diversity inclusion agenda Right, so they think that's a nor situation. Where is it and situations at least it should be so it takes me to the next point I think that they have a lot of difficulty to think holistically in DNI So we in Brazil I mean in our institution we tackle DNI I mean as within the E and the S and the G for example when we're talking about Environmental racism, so it means like what are the populations who are struggling to have like Sanitation or to have food so most most of them are no white population So we need to talk about environmental racism and the as part of it So where are going our investments our social investments mostly for white lead Company for white led institutions not for the indigenous or no white Institutions so we need to think about inclusion in the S frame and the G the governance We also need to think about inclusion in the government. So how are we treating for example racism or sexism? Gender issues in our in our system and how are how are we producing data for example? And also, I think we are having a lot of difficulty to you think Global and local both for example, there is there are a lot of programs who tackle like Who are who said they are a global? They have a global commitment on inclusion, but they are more US centered Okay, so they don't reach Brazil they don't reach other regions where there are black indigenous or no white population Okay, and that takes me to my last point is like we need to move beyond the US where we still have a lot of Challenges, but we advance it a little bit more than other regions where we still need investments And we still need to take to talk a lot more about that. For example, we had a coalition We have a coalition here as YGLs We build we build it like this agenda of hackathons and everyone is more than invited to participate and We are trying to tackle different issues in different parts of the world. My friend. He is from Nepal He also faced a lot of problems with caste issues We have problems in Canada, but we also have a lot of opportunities as we were saying to tackle those issues In a global perspective, but also respecting the local language the local context and to waste less talents and less Opportunities by tackling this issue global and locally. All right. Thank you so much for that And he and she was talking about Pradeep Parierre my friend another young global leader Yes work with the caste-based discrimination in Nepal and around South Asia is incredible His organization is called that lift lives matter. Please check it out Miss Carter the same question. Where do you see progress and what are still the remaining challenges in terms of advancing racial and ethnic equity? I am the great granddaughter of a slave and as a child I marched with dr. Martin Luther King and thinking about where he is and where we are today There is progress, but I'd say the first challenge is that it's not resilient enough We advance and then we regress and we often regress to Hustility and backlash and violence and then we have to regroup and it has to be an event Before we are ready to then create a new momentum And the question is how can we create the level of resilience? robustness and at some point similar to having a net to zero What is our global challenge and our global opportunity together, you know often? We can use technology at Hewlett Packard Enterprise We call it swarming swarming learning where we can all share data insights and figure out how we can together maintain Sustain and retain our momentum even during the backlash even during the intensity of the Hustility because often creates fear and anger the second thing I'd say is one of the biggest challenges It is did you realize that in this year 1.8 trillion dollars? Here in America is the black consumer spending power 1.8 trillion and yet this particular Demography is ignored and often underlooked and if they're treated they're treated badly in a lot of our commercial Environments we're talking about shareholder value and yet we leave stranded assets if you add African Americans Asian Americans Hispanics Latinx indigenous People with disabilities it is five trillion dollars and the question is are we really interested in growth? Are we really interested in shareholder value then? Why are we stranding a lot of the assets and the same thing with labor we kept saying there's a labor shortage? But there isn't and we have people that are being educated more every day that are of every race gender and Economic status and even if in the African-american Community there's an assumption that if oh you don't have any money. We have found that we are the best consumers We are more wily with apps That we are innovators and early adopters. We are skewing younger and growing faster Why wouldn't you want to incorporate us in every asset of what you're doing? It's incredible I think there is progress when you matched with Dr. King as a child a woman like your black woman would not be on the Board of HV and here you are right now. You were a groundbreaking Attorney general as well in the early 90s when you're the first to block attorney general of the state of Indiana Indiana yes, so there's progress certainly But would you say that as a society have we made enough steps forward or have we also gone too far back? Well, we always celebrate too soon And we let go too soon So when I ran and won the attorney general it was the year of the woman and we had made it and then we look today And we're having the same conversations Did we make progress? Absolutely. Did we learn and grow in power? Absolutely many of the attorneys generals are in all kinds of high Positions, but then the pipeline was not as robust And so we have to think past present and future in terms of the challenges on the opportunities though I've seen so many great opportunities where we can move to ownership another company that I am on the board We've just signed a contract with 23 first nations where we have given 11% of our pipeline for them to be able to handle whatever they need to do as Equal owners, so we're learning how to use all of the financial Consuming buying power and then also creating ownership with whomever. We are working with and for in our local communities All right, I saw you nodding very vigorously Miss Williams as she was talking because you agree certainly on the progress But I imagine also on the places where there's still gaps. Yes, I'll say I was the amen corner to So just a couple of things and I'm going to share the perspective from my organization United Way Worldwide We are have 1100 local entities that serve in 37 countries What makes us so unique is that my colleagues live in the communities that we serve so we're the neighbors We we understand what's happening and and that's where I I feel like I'll let me just give you an example of a story of how we're showing up when it comes to moving things forward So there was this city Called haytide named after Haiti, but they pronounced it haytide. It's known as the black wall street The second one is first one was in Tulsa, Oklahoma The second one is in the Raleigh Durham, North Carolina Well, there was a point in I think the 60s or 70s the city said we're going to tear it down Black Wall Street where there were black banks black doctors black stores business people and We're going to build a highway So I met a couple of months ago with the next generation of Those black bank owners and store owners and they are still grieving The loss of economic wealth. They are still living the trauma of Having their world destroyed by a decision of a government But what United Way is doing is we're now facilitating conversations where we're empowering And they're paying for the advocacy of these individuals We're bringing government together to say now you took this generational wealth away What do you owe this community and facilitating the conversations to rebuild this community and what was lost? We're also bringing to light There are so many black and brown people again in community creating solutions, but they don't get the funding They don't get the notoriety So what we did at United Way is said we're going to lift up all of the the black and brown leaders of nonprofits And let the business community know here's where the work is happening Here's where you can make a quality investment All of that to say that that gets to the heart I think the root of some of these issues that we're seeing in the US is the lack of Economic mobility the lack of education the lack of being able to have access to health care And all of these get to the root cause of systemic issues include which which basically under my or well under my racial ethnic Ethnic ropes gender as well, but we're here to talk about race So what's the opportunity that we have one again? We have to maintain the level of we're going to stay at this we're going to keep going we're going to set metrics We're going to hold companies. We're going to hold governments We're going to hold everyone accountable to these metrics We're going to create programs after we do the self-assessment of where we are to say What are we going to do to create that pipeline? What are we going to do to elevate people to train them up to give them the opportunity? That's what this is about and I'll just say one other thing that I Said made this statement and someone on social media attacked me Because I made it a couple of days ago here, but I'm going to say it again So what I said was that a lot of our systems and it doesn't matter what country you're in they were Based on and created on bad values, and they were created systems created for a particular population and Created to exclude other people So what do I say about that? Why don't we blow up those systems and do something different now And I got into it back and forth with one of my panelists and I said yeah, that sounds radical It makes people who are leading these systems makes their skin crawl However, what I'm trying to say is this that we need you can call it a new playbook a new table But equity is what we're talking about so I'll stop because I can go on and on I wonder if that's not controversial at all The only person who would find an issue with that statement is because they're invested in or they Benefit from that exclusion of other people, right? So it should not be something that controversial at least not in my books Well, I was called a left-wing something something Mr. Freakley your chance again progress opportunities or rather where you still see some work to be done great Oh, well you the audience might think what's this middle-aged white guy doing? We're all thinking it so what are you doing exactly? Our diversity panelist, please I have a personal perspective I have a business perspective. I'm going to talk mostly about the business, but personally I have two African-American children So I have a frontline seat on a number of these issues, but let me just talk about by business life I run an organization in fourteen countries over three thousand people and what we Realize is that having diversity in our firm in all ways But particularly ways that brings the very best talent from all Constituents and constituencies into our firm is going to be crazy Why wouldn't we bring the best talent in and then we realized of course that just Exposing a business value in and of itself isn't particularly compelling unless it's a value of the organization Unless it's something that we own as a value actually not a lot happens and so Inclusion diversity equity is a value of our organization and we seek to think about the practical ways that we can create that environment So we do welcome and include and give those people that we do include a sense of belonging in our firm So to your question Larry Other than the aspiration how do we make it happen and how do we capture it? Well, the only way that it happens is and there was I always like to say inclusion comes before diversity Unless one has an inclusive environment mean diversity is simply not going to happen. So it starts with inclusion. You know, there's somebody said to me recently Diversity is a reality inclusion as a choice. So we start with that choice now. How do Middle-age white people like me play a part in making that happen? Well, you start by being an ally How are you an ally to all constituencies to make them feel that they belong in this environment? How are you an advocate when that is required to make sure that not just that you? passively accept and support but that you advocate for the right things and when necessary How everybody is an activist to make that happen? And so we make it very clear that these things are not just a value of the firm They're actually in encased in people's objectives They're measured to make sure that we have our fingers on the critical pulses of whether we continue to be inclusive And then we do look at the output of those strategies to make sure we becoming increasingly diverse that we are welcoming more and more Colleagues with from ethnic minorities and by the way, you know people that are diverse in other respects to make sure we have the most Vibrant the most inclusive environment in which people feel they can belong and I just ask yes I know you're the moderator, but it just The question I want to ask you then what about the employees that don't want this that don't want to be measured that think You as a leader are going overboard Well, I have pretty straight conversations with people that will have me that conversation with me directly And I say this may just not be the place for you because let me be clear. This is where we're going. This is This is absolutely non-negotiable, and if that's not for you the world is a big place I like that So I think you would agree with the what Angela said that systems that are built to exclude certain people need to be torn down, right? quickly Look at that. I know is your communications person Because they would have other thoughts about that Luan I wanted to pick up on something you said about a lot of these DEI initiatives tend to be very US centric or at least European centric And you coming from Brazil who's been doing this work for a long time I wonder what kind of challenges you face and how you're overcoming them Yeah, I would say even more US centered than your European center because in Europe we observe that there are a lot of a Lot of DNI, but most focused on gender issues But this gender is a lot has a lot of difficulty to be intersectional for example, and especially they reach White women, but not the whole bunch of women who aren't this plural group So that's the real change here challenge here in Europe I think and also here in Europe We have the challenge of having Disaggregated data for example in France. We do not collect data for a race and ethnicity So I think that's a huge challenge, and I think we have an opportunity I mean not only Brazil but also in here in Europe Latin America as a whole to build a global agenda on inclusion in the labor market an agenda that will include for example Presidents from the country see see levels see the society to all together because I couldn't see this agenda put it in on place yet just in silos like there is this Conference in the United States or Colombia or Brazil, but not all together as we have like the foreign or the economic forum So I think that's our issue in Brazil I mean we have a very particular reality because we are the only a country in Latin America who speaks Portuguese and You know we have we have to deal with our racial Myth we have a racial democracy myth there where if you go to Brazil people say Oh there there is only like poor people, but all people everyone is mixed it which is which is not true We have a hierarchy in this mixture So the docu you are less opportunities you get lower down the hierarchy Yeah, yeah, so it means that we kind of look alike the the the reality in Nepal for example Where the caste system play a great role there racism plays a really a huge role in Brazil and in Brazil For example, we are the biggest African diaspora in the world So we have more than 110 million black and indigenous people But we only get like five percent of the leadership roles But when we go to you company companies based on the US they say oh You know you have a lot to do here in the US. You cannot invest that much in Brazil Right, so I think we need to shoot to bridge to to build bridges between our countries and to make this agenda Work in a global scale, so I think this is the big challenge here I like what you said earlier about the fact that the DEI agenda and ESG do not have to be separate because these are Deeply interlinked that would be ideal And I think the one thing that I'm going to take from what Luana said is that George Floyd? Obviously gotten it whole world to pay attention, but in Brazil there's a George Floyd killed every 23 minutes According to the Amnesty according to Amnesty International that is shocking I wanted to follow up here with Angela and Pamela about when We were in the height of 2020 and the pandemic and every company was big and making a big announcement and obviously that commitment Sometimes appears to have faltered and this is no longer a major issue in the same way it was in two years ago And do you feel how do you make sure that he let pocket for instance that you are sticking to those commitments and you're not off track The term unconditional and unflinching is the way in which our leadership Attacks and is passionate and committed to DEI and ESG and the fact that it's disclosed in our Publications those terms unconditional We also have to set the tone at the top in terms of strategy Hewlett Packard is in 170 countries We have over 250,000 channel partners And so and we have 60,000 employees so the opportunity to have an influence and an impact globally is huge and we haven't Shrunk from that responsibility at all I'm very proud actually of the fact that right after George Floyd The senior executive team and some members of the board went on a listening tour throughout the 170 countries not assuming that they already knew what the answer to the problems were and find out what's happening in our Environment in our culture and we set out our core values and our culture and our talent We feel very strongly about our commitment to people and human resources But that doesn't mean that we're perfect and so the opening Act was to go and do this listening tour and we learned and then from there We began to develop the work plans and from there We were able to put metrics in place because you have to be accountable and that's been said a couple of times already And then if you falter you falter and it's public we disclose all of our Representation statistics we let people know where we are with pay equity around the world and we are one-to-one We've been working on that a lot in terms of working where you live. We have for women six month maternity leave paid and US US UK India any place that we have and in the countries that we are if they have more Then we permit that but it's paid and that yes in the US as well because the US is a terrible paid leave policy and so there is an unflinching commitment To making certain that we're doing the right thing in terms of training in terms of development But I like what you said a lot of it is local and regional and we really cannot be chauvinistic in terms of our Cultural view writ large in terms of countries and so we are humble in this process We're learning a lot We're trying to lead and we'd like to be able to collaborate more with other technology companies because that's going to be absolutely essential Simon you've worked extensively across both the US and in Europe and obviously approaches to these issues differ Sometimes quite starkly in those two different geographies. What are some interesting takeaways you can share with us? So one of the things I've learned having worked a lot in Europe and the UK and the UK specifically in the States is that Many of the issues are the same But the narratives that surround them are different and so the narrative for instance We just take the the black community for instance the narrative in the UK is largely around the Windrush generation people that were brought in from the West Indies you know For economic reasons to help support infrastructure and utilities and transport Whereas the narrative in the US of course is for the black community African-American communities largely anchored in slavery and so these are two very different narratives that being said the issues That we're dealing with in both geographies are very similar And so what I've learned in this is I've tried to learn from others and just understand the Complexity and significance is that the key is to be intentional is it's really important to be intentional About what we want to do what we stand for as a firm of values what we want to manifest in terms of the business that we We hope to be and we're trying to be and be intentional about the things the specific things that include and support and develop All people and listen and understand With ethnic minorities. What is the best way to support them so that we can all be our best So I would say Larry the key is different narratives similar issue, but the key is for us to be intentional Speaking on the same issue of accountability miss Williams. What more do you think can be done to make sure there's robust accountability on advancing racial and ethnic equity and organizations around the world So I I like what wef is done by one launching this toolkit, which Gives companies a way in which to start looking at themselves Points to a pathway Secondly, I I Appreciate but also am disappointed that we're still having these types of conversations, I think it's important like he'll a pack it is doing and it's good to hear that you all report your numbers and are bold about it and Continuing to put pressure on companies from the inside meaning employees and externally from others that are partnering or working with Businesses or companies to say what are you doing different and I will just segue in and and say that my Board the United Way Worldwide Board After George Floyd issued a statement that said a racial equity statement that they asked all of our 1,100 local United Ways to adopt Now I will tell you we're in 37 countries in the US again as it relates to the narrative We understand historically what that would mean, but in on other continents like Europe and others They're saying well, we don't necessarily think this applies because what went along with that was we asked that boards our local boards Be go through a training on racial equity once a year So We built out a whole toolkit and everything else so again similar to Weff we were Moving and are moving in a direction, but I will just say we still get the pushback Where I received calls from in the US even well our community. We don't have any racial issues Okay, well you have some equity issues at least somewhere But there's just a lot that we have to do And I think that the transparency and the visibility and shedding a light on it is important to the accountability the public Accountability is important. It makes people uncomfortable. It makes leaders uncomfortable, but it's like being Alcoholic the first step to recovery is what? Admitting right and so we need to take that first Step in recovery and I'm not sure that a lot of people have done that or a lot of entities have done that still One thing in terms of tying your performance to compensation So I'm yes, I'm the chair of the company HR and compensation board And it is required of our senior executives through their MBOs that if they don't meet the variety of targets that we've set Dei ESG they get paid less So they've got they've got a skin in the game no fooling and and that matters And so that they take it seriously we take it seriously And we're on flinching about it as well If you don't like that kind of culture and expectation then maybe you should go somewhere else But with that said our voice of the employee surveys It's in the 80% in terms of great place to work and in our brand is even higher So that and we're retaining people so we're also measuring in a way to make certain that we're that what we're we think is the proper Approach is actually working and then if we do fall flat We will be the first to publicly acknowledge that and when we double our efforts and keep going forward But we'll be very aggressive about it. It's fantastic. All right fantastic. I wonder if mandating diversity awareness training and any sort of Employee company-wide training on these issues helps does it work do people? Rejected any insights on that for many of you just have to meet people where they are I think there are multiple ways in which to change culture and just like you just said it could be tying to compensation Or setting metrics and having the conversations, but I think all of it is important and then you know most important I found is that It comes with understanding each other understanding our lived experiences and actually fostering conversations Small group conversations. Let me tell you why I believe the way I believe let me tell you about my Experience and when you start sharing your own personal stories that person across me says oh, I didn't realize That's how you have to live And and or how that's how the what your experience is with law enforcement or this is your Experiences when you go to a doctor or this is your experience when in school so Conversation one-on-one sharing of stories. I think is also extremely important Yeah, I would like to add on what mrs. Williams was saying just because I mean I we do a lot of trainings and companies where we have our Yes, your racial quality seal there in Brazil and what we realize it's that most of the people who are in power positions in Brazil I mean especially before George Floyd they would deny there was a racial issue in Brazil exactly as we were saying Just head in the sand. This does not exist. Yeah, that doesn't exist here So they would keep saying that but once they were trained and they were Basically more conscious about oh, I don't have like black peers I don't have like a black board or indigenous people here. They would say oh, we need to do something So train the training part is still very important because we're still in a very basic Era Unfortunately, but I would I would add also that it's a man situation. Obviously we need training, but we also need a Goals tied to compensation so people can move forward even if you don't love this because Just because you want to earn more money and that's okay I mean, it's just a matter it doesn't matter if you like or don't like racial justice or ESG just do it because that's your work So we are trying to keep this is up as a best practice, but it's still we need to have a group like that putting pressure So companies governments put that in the plane They're playing because it's it doesn't happen like automatically Can I just say one thing we tend to have this conversation as it's as if it's a zero-sum game Like there's just one pie and here's this slice this slice And if if I get a slice that I'm taking something from you and it's not that's not the case And and so we have to shift mindsets that we're in this together And so if my purchasing power is not valued, it's going to affect you as a company It's going to affect the economy So we need to shift our mindset and when we're talking about de and I and it's not this one-off thing It's not about I lose power and I have to transfer it to you That is a brilliant takeaway racial equity ethnic equity is not pie Given that to somebody else does not reduce your own share of it. We'll take that away We want to get some questions from the audience in terms of okay, whoever gets a mic first fine Right First of all, this is an amazing panel. Can we give another round of applause? Thank you all So I have two quick questions. The first is we released at Harvard We released a legacy of slavery report in which we committed a hundred million dollars But if you dig into the if you look into the fine print There's it's interesting how When it comes to you know reparative justice We're comfortable talking about oh, we're investing programs. We're investing institutions. We're investing this No one wants to talk about actual reparations to the people who are harmed. They say it's too complicated How do we calculate yet all these countries paid off the slave onus? In fact, Britain just finished paying it off recently, right, right? So why I like let's dig into this issue. Why is it that for the people like? Madame Carter who you can do you can do the work, right? I mean skip gates has been going all over the place testing people and finding their lineage It's we know we have the technology to figure it out So why is it that when it comes to this particular issue of reparative justice? We're always shine away from that second question. We spoke a lot about racial Equity, but we didn't touch a lot on ethnic equity and that's something that you know coming from Ghana I come from the northern part of Ghana when the British came they divided us the south was educated the north was not educated In fact, the first person from my part of the country the north who got a university degree was in 1963 at Monalhasa, Bah Zamba, so Whereas from the south they've been educated for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years Yeah, because we all look alike No one talks about it and you see these sorts of inequalities pervade and persist What can we do and what lessons can we take from the fight and racial equity to ensure that we're also Leveling the playing field for ethnic and I want to take another question as well so we can take them together. Yes, ma'am Thank you very much. I have two questions, but I'll keep them very brief Yes, and thank you very much to the panel because it's been a phenomenal conversation And I really do hope of what is listening this needs to be on the main plenary next year because this really needs to have a wider global engagement But first I'd like to ask a question from the Americas perspective and then Larry if I may I'd like to ask you a question similar to also East African from the African perspective or just a pack other regions that were similarly affected by the colonial legacies Where we see these racial constructs Insidiously affecting wealth distribution But when you were talking about if there's no place for you here if you're not aligned with our goals What concerns me after George Floyd is as much as we've seen mobilization We've also seen mobilization on the other side Polarization right critical race theory was a way that certain groups were able to mobilize the voters in order to see see change in political Representation and that concerns me because when you're talking about we are trying to attract the best and brightest talent Yes, talent is equally distributed across all groups, right? They don't have equal opportunities to develop that talent So the educational system is important right and if you remove this type of education from there Then what next generation are you looking at it sets us back in terms of I'm thinking at the historic injustices We're trying to incrementally correct So I'm concerned about that in your views and Larry you've been asked my panelist. I can't ask the questions Thank you Can I have a crack at the first of your two go for it? The over it. Yes, so so it's a great question. Thank you and of course what in my own experience as we've lived through this is If the things that we're doing are not manifesting the outcomes that we want then we're mad just to carry on doing those things So we have to try different things all the time I give you an example so in in our in our value to manifest the best talent particularly with With all types of diversity in mind if we keep on recruiting from the same graduate colleges And we can't recruit enough diversity. Why the heck are we only recruiting there? We need to recruit in different places. So we took a very deliberate decision, okay? Brilliant people come out of Harvard and Princeton and Wharton and Penn great But we're not getting enough of the talent that we want and the broadest sense Let's start looking in different places So we now very deliberately look in a much broader range of places now people have to be just as bright We're prepared to work just as hard and have to hold our values and be Absolutely as committed to the future. We're trying to create but the places We used to look simply weren't facilitating the outcomes that we wanted so we had to change the way that we looked at it In terms of I want to be able to move this conversation to get everybody's voice in there a few minutes We have left I apologize and you don't have a crack at reparative justice and why reparations is a complicated question that is not quite easy to wrestle with Angela I go back to the last point I just made because people feel like if you're gonna make Reparations to somebody for something that happened, you know a hundred years ago You're going to be taking it for me today, and I don't want to give up what's mine All right and Pamela Well, I think that if you're thinking about what a next step would be is going through reconciliation you know they did that in South Africa because I think we have to acknowledge where we were in our past and Because you know as you know justice develops along a line of toward trust and confidence And you can't have that until you can acknowledge where we've been together and you know It's it's quite difficult if you come from a slave heritage and you come from a free heritage And so I think reconciliation is it's an issue and then when you're talking about criminal justice Who's the justice for anyway, and so I think we have to be thoughtful We don't have reparative justice in our system today, so I mean we're we still have a punitive justice system So I mean I think that the questions are from your generation and younger generations are going to be I think demanding some More accountability to our past in order for us because past is prologue Right, so I think you're going to hear a lot more about it But I think there are a whole host of steps prior to actually reaching it so that we can be resilient So it can be sustainable and robust in terms of our equity journey Loana you wanted to jump in here. Yes about the reparation thing. I think in Brazil We just don't have enough people especially black and indigenous people in power Empower roles in politics to actually build a plan or where we can do a reparation there Because that's a huge topic, but we cannot pass the laws to make it happen So we need to be more present in Parliament So we can maybe do a reparation plan there because we need it and about concerning Ethnicity, I really think myself really reflected in your reality in Ghana because for example black people from Southeast in Brazil they got more access than the black people from Northeast and the same thing with the indigenous people some some people like the two pinambas the Different different people within the indigenous community. They may get somehow some more access So we do have a lot of ethnical problems in Brazil, and I think it takes like more intentionality. So when we build An action plan for a company for example We say to them to hire people from not only black people from Southeast but also from the Northeast So that's a way to be more intentional and and try to actually be more Inclusive not only with the back black people In the places where they are used to hire but also in the other regions and from other ethnicities They are not used to you so yeah, and I think that is a something that's similar in many African contexts where we have tribes or ethnicities of different communities and companies even big Multinational that operate in the continent don't track that sort of ethnicity Numbers part of it is for political reasons It's like to be controversial and yet you can often see the sentiment that people feel they're not represented in the leadership of some of these Huge organizations yet. There's no way to actively Consciously make an effort or make a point that no you seem to have all the people from just the north of the country and nowhere else And that's not the representative of the nation or the society that we live in so a lot of work to be done there We only have 30 seconds left if somebody has a burning final point before we wrap it up I do just just really quick. We were talking here about the net zero Obviously commitment that our countries need to make our I was also wondering if we can do like a waste zero talents Commitment, so we could not waste more talents Which is also as important as the net zero because if we waste less talents will be Probably reaching the net zero point Quicker, so yeah, it would be great. Thank you Luana and that is a great place to bring this conversation to a close I think we two takeaways equity is not pie and To there's need for a lot more accountability on these matters. Please give a big round of applause to my panel. You've been fantastic Thanks a lot Well done