 Aloha and welcome to Ehana Kako. We're here every week on the Think Tank Hawaii broadcast network. I'm Kili Akina, president of the Grassroot Institute. Now we are in the western most point of the United States as a think tank that does research on problems facing the economy and government and comes up with solutions. Well I'm so pleased to say that today we're going to be talking with the think tank that is on the eastern most point of the United States and that is from Puerto Rico. Live today we have the founder of a brand new economic policy and government transparency think tank called the Center for Integrity and Public Policy in Puerto Rico. Now what do Puerto Rico and Hawaii have in common? A lot because much of the situation in our economy is impacted by many of the similar problems, similar situations. One for example is that we're both islands and another is that there is a federal law called the Jones Act that has had tremendous impact on our own economy so we're going to talk a little bit about that as well as government transparency but please welcome to the program today Alvin Quinones who is the founder and president of the CIPP Center for Integrity and Public Policy in San Juan Puerto Rico and that's where you are Alvin San Juan right welcome to the program. Thank you for having me yes I'm here in San Juan very similar tropical climates. Indeed and when I say aloha to you what is the greeting from Puerto Rico? Bienvenido. Oh very good well the same to you Alvin. Alvin you're in business today and you've got a growing and booming career with several of your colleagues and friends what is it that you have now created in Puerto Rico and why did you do so? Yes so we started the CIPP as we call it here a few years ago primarily because we noticed a lack of interesting policy solutions much of the political discourse revolved around federal aid as solutions to the islands problems and we were interested in different solutions how can we empower communities and individuals to find the solutions for themselves and initially we noticed that there was a lack of data to even begin to analyze the problems that we faced and so we started what today is known as open Puerto Rico or abrigo Puerto Rico it's our open data transparency portal. Well that's a very interesting thing because in Hawaii we have the same situation we want to see policy change so we've started a think tank called the Grassroot Institute and it begins with research and we happen to have a portal for transparency and information called open Hawaii so it looks like we're on the same track we both recognize the importance of good research behind policy but you've got a major challenge in Puerto Rico that we've been reading about in the United States over the last year and a half and that is what sometimes is called the bankruptcy of your basic economy can you tell us very concisely what's actually gone on with the Puerto Rican economy? Yes so we've seen a lot of challenges primarily a escape of a lot of Puerto Ricans to the US mainland for looking for greater opportunities which reduces the capacity for the economy to grow most of those people who leave are in their productive years probably have a job already on the island they just feel that there's greater opportunity for them outside and on top of that the government has had to implement a lot of austerity measures so the economy here was primarily fueled by government spending and so as the government contracts Puerto Ricans to leave the economy has to contract as well so there's that double-edged sword of the government funding having the government play such a significant role in the economy the bottom falls out actually when the government is not able to continue putting funding in you mentioned something interesting at the very beginning and that is that one of the situations in Puerto Rico is that people seem to have that they do have the habit of looking to the federal government for money that's a big thing in Hawaii a great deal of our economy is fueled by subsidies from the federal government tell us a little bit about that and how that experience has helped or hurt Puerto Rico yeah I think you know it provides a short-term solution to problems right we have the 936 laws which were incentivized certain factories coming here particularly the pharmaceuticals to get back to those back in the lines and that created a certain sense of prosperity we also have a lot of the subsidies from federal education and health care and so that again tends to create this false sense of buoyancy but as you pointed out when the money starts to dry up those incentives created a sense of which the economy locally didn't really have to be competitive we didn't have to provide any other types of complementary services and people locally didn't develop the skills to really keep those types of enterprises going on our own very you know just really help with a long-term solution so would you say that you've seen that a very big role on the part of the federal government has created a sense of dependency indeed codependency so that it's actually stunted the growth of industries within Puerto Rico over the past several decades that's absolutely true that's correct and then we continue to look to the federal government to solve our problems so even now as we're facing these new fiscal challenges we continue to discuss about new incentives and new federal giveaways how to increase federal funding for our health care system and it's constantly looking to the federal government to cover over the gaps in our own economy well it's clear that you don't think that a federal bailout of Puerto Rico's economy is the ultimate long-term solution what is the solution how would you as a think tank advise government to rebuild the economy of Puerto Rico it's a great question there and I think what we really have to look at is how to create Puerto Rico as a competitive location for businesses on its own merits so what do we do to really provide a quality education here in Puerto Rico we are at the juncture of two cultures similar to Hawaii you know Pacific and Asian culture as well as American here in Puerto Rico we bridge Latin American and American cultures yet we don't take advantage enough of a bilingual opportunities to really expand markets we are labor market laws are very rigid and have a lot of it's ability so you start to create a lot of pressures in which you're not building up your human capital and your stifling businesses from taking advantage of the human capital you do have right there are two very low-paying fruit that you could do you talked about competition and economic market expansion these are qualities that are present in a free market one that is freer at least than one highly controlled by government do you see Puerto Rico as a place where free market concepts will be able to work I do you see that today with people's hunger for a different way in politics people are tired of the same old stories similar to what you're seeing in the United States they are looking for changes many Puerto Ricans are going to places like Florida and Texas which pride themselves of being areas that encourage growth encourage job creation don't try to stifle entrepreneurs and I think they see the success of those types of policies and want to see those here at all I think what we're seeing is that money walks and it's with the feet that people show their votes and what they really prefer and they're going to where they can find economic opportunity which is what you want Puerto Rico really to offer them you know in Hawaii we're experiencing the same thing whether we call it the brain drain or anything else it's an exodus of the greatest talent from our state simply because some of our recent college graduates won't be able to afford a mortgage on a home for decades if they stay in Hawaii or the kinds of career opportunities tell us a little bit about that brain drain of the younger generation in Puerto Rico well you know that's a you know same issue here a similar slightly different in them our housing costs actually quite affordable fortunately but if you don't have a job to afford the home it's not very useful right and so we see a lot of people leaving for Washington DC especially I think they see an opportunities in federal government and federal law specifically seeing how that's impacted Puerto Rico I think they see that the need is to change state policy at the federal level rather than reclaiming our own empowerment as in our own self-determination in that regard of economic development you talk yes you talk about empowerment and self-determination in terms of economic development and in reality both Hawaii and Puerto Rico are ranked fairly low in regional and global measures of economic freedom so we face a common problem and that is something that suppresses economic freedom vestiges of a protectionism that started many many generations ago economic protectionism and I know that you're very familiar with a venerable form of protectionism called the Jones Act based upon some laws in 1920 tell us a bit about what that Jones Act is so the Jones Act requires that any shipping that comes to Puerto Rico Hawaii or Alaska or any US territory either be under the flag of a US ship or depart from a US port so it increases the cost for delivery of all sorts of goods and both of us being islands we have to have a lot delivered to us I think in Puerto Rico we import about 80% of our food stuffs not including many other consumer goods and so it creates an artificial tax on all goods that are here and I know you all in Kauai suffer that greatly with just the cost of milking gasoline and most other things. Right as you mentioned the Jones Act has to do with shipping and it's been around since the 1920s it was designed to protect the shipping industry by removing competition but in the process it actually has created a disincentive for the shipping industry to actually grow and as a result we have such a scarcity of ships the costs of them are so high but the Jones Act says we have to buy them from the United States whenever we're doing cargo transport between two American ports which includes Puerto Rico. Let me ask you how the experience has been of telling Washington DC that this federal law is oppressive to the economy of Puerto Rico? Well I think similarly to why right I don't think we punch below our weight if you will Puerto Rico is if we were a state we'd be about 21st I think in terms of size but we still have very little influence in telling our story and when you look at the unions and the other vested interests that benefit from the Jones Act you know there's very little reason for Washington to hear us out. So the maritime union that funds candidates who support the Jones Act is very very powerful in Washington DC and so it's very difficult to get a hearing. Have your political leaders I know your representatives in DC and the governor of Puerto Rico have all appealed to Washington DC for some reprieve have they given up or have they become frustrated do they feel they have an action plan that could make a difference? An action plan I'm not sure about but given up they have not so it's definitely an item we bring up often as you know we are recently there was the promessa bill that was put in place to resolve the situation of the islands debts and we hope there might be some Jones Act alleviation in that process so people continue to labor and struggle for some alleviation of what that the impact is there but it's interesting because of one of the few issues that across the political parties here in Puerto Rico there's resounding support to see some action around the Jones Act. You know and that's something that actually benefits the rest of the nation while not all regions realize this the Jones Act has an impact down the line on every state's economy in the United States to some extent yeah it's definitely apparent in states like Hawaii or California where we have coastline and and deal with shipping directly but it also affects everything that is shipped to the coasts and then travels by train or bus or or truck to another destination so there's a residual effect on every single industry and every state of the United States and yet there's very little attention so I want to commend what many Puerto Ricans are doing they're they're raising the level of attention they're saying this has been part of the cause of the demise of our economy and we need some kind of relief from it so we're going to be working with you and as you know you you've recently become part of a network of think tanks we'll talk about that at the beginning of the next segment and in that network we're going to be working together my guest today is Alvin Quiñones who is the founder of a think tank in Puerto Rico committed to government transparency and to improving the economy when we come back we'll talk with him a little bit more about governments that are open and transparent I'm Kili Akina on Think Tech Hawaii's Ehana Kako, Don't Go Away. Hi I'm Stacey Hayashi and you can catch me on Mondays at 11 on Think Tech Hawaii. Stacey to the rescue see you then. Welcome to Asia in the wheel looking forward to see you next month on October 13th Thursday at 11 o'clock. Aloha everyone I hope you've been watching Think Tech Hawaii but I'm here to invite you to watch me on Viva Hawaii every Monday at 3 p.m. I'm waiting for you mahalo. Aloha my name is John Wahee and I actually have a small part to do with what's happening today served actually in public office but if you don't already know that here's a chance to learn more about what's happening in our state by joining me for a talk story with John Wahee every other Monday thank you and I look forward to your seeing us in the future. Welcome back to Ehana Kako we're here every week on Monday at 2 p.m. Hawaii time but our show is broadcast all throughout the world on live internet as well as available on the Think Tech Hawaii website ThinkTechHawaii.com and you can also see our programs on grassrootsinstitute.org that's grassrootsinstitute.org well before we resume our program I do want to say thanks to the wonderful staff and crew here at Think Tech Hawaii who produce about 35 hours of original content every week that is sent all across the world we talk about the economy we talk about government we talk about the arts we talk about virtually everything that affects human life science religion public policy it's a very fascinating way to get an education of what's going on in Hawaii and the world. We're talking today with the founder of a new think tank in Puerto Rico called the Center for Integrity and Public Policy Alvin Quinones and Alvin and his board of directors and the team that have put the think tank together have been welcomed with open arms to a national network of think tanks in each of the 50 states there is a designated think tank that fights for the policies of individual liberty free markets and limited accountable government they're not partisan democrats republicans libertarians and others participate in them and they're not funded by the government or the military or by political parties so they can say anything they want and nobody loses their job as a result of it they're truly independent think tanks and so as we return to Alvin I want to say congratulations Alvin to you and to Center for Integrity and Public Policy for being Puerto Rico's first and only think tank as part of the state policy network congratulations thank you I appreciate that now what are the resources that that being part of SPN brings to Puerto Rico and its government and people I think you know what it brings is the ability for us to have a greater voice and really project these types of ideas into the political discourse that there's been a vacuum for here in Puerto Rico the levers have been pushed mightily on the side of more government involvement and SPN is giving us this support in both thinking through strategically and also tactically and how we can push the lever on the other side and create some balance and discourse here and there's a fundamental principle that needs to be practiced that SPN promotes and it's called federalism it isn't what people may think the growth of the federal branch it's quite the opposite it's the the concept that powers should not go from the state to the federal government powers should go back to the states and territories where it's closest to home and where you have a form of home rule because the people there who are paying the taxes there who live there who have to make the economy work there are the ones who should be the most important voice how do you see that panning out in in Puerto Rico we see unfortunate I think a lot of people here see the federal government as their savior so it's challenging to create that sense of how to break that linkage and really create an understanding what federalism means and oftentimes we look at statehood for Puerto Rico as an opportunity to have greater federal dollars if we were instead to see that as an opportunity to maybe release ourselves from certain federal obligations and really express our economic identity on our own as many other states have had it such as Texas, Florida and as you all are trying to do in Hawaii we'd see much better opportunity. You know one of the things we've tried to do here in Hawaii in order to enhance the opportunity for good public policy to to be heard and talked about is provide information that people need we could call this the democrat of information because one of the ways governments stay out of the light of accountability is to withhold data from people or to make it too difficult for people including journalists and the general public to get a hold of so one of the projects that we have here and operate is a website called Open Hawaii and we post a lot of stuff that the government doesn't make available readily sometimes we actually have to sue the government in order to get information that belongs to the public and an amazing thing happens when we post that information for example with one rogue agency here in Hawaii we got a hold of their checkbook and just posted the check register the public was able to walk through thousands of checks and identify irregularities and fraud and waste and abuse and there have been so many news articles that have been generated by that and action has been taken and in one case the major Supreme Court case benefited from the information that was available there and so as I turn to you I know that you're starting some similar programs in Puerto Rico tell us first a little bit about the climate in Puerto Rico in the government in terms of openness and transparency to the people well first let me commend you and your group for what you're doing in Hawaii that's great work we haven't had those kinds of successes yet we're doing a lot of the government here obviously speaks that the information is public and you there's laws about that but being public and making it public are very different and so there's a lot of scoops that one has to jump through and so we're trying to break through those procedural barriers one of the big things we released was the audited financial statements of municipalities here on the island interestingly enough after we digitized and put on our website about five years of financial statements the agency responsible for that soon launched a website of their own putting the financial statements on the web so it was almost like they already had it they just weren't able to do it themselves until we open the web we've also done a lot on how all the mayors in Puerto Rico are managing their municipal finances and whether or not they're being responsible stewards of the public's dollar and it's interesting how often they were to say well we are private entities so we don't have to be that responsible was almost their response to us and really it's our money and so they should be that responsible so we've seen a lot of challenges where people try to push back on the light of day we're bringing but we've also seen the public be incredibly supportive and it's earned us a lot of credibility so I think we're on the right track the good thing about doing transparency work is that it benefits everyone and it doesn't carry with it a political branding you're not doing this for republicans or democrats or for any of the local parties in Puerto Rico so you mentioned that there's public support of this do you think that you have been impacting the public's own confidence and being able to access the government and hold it accountable are you getting feedback that says you're doing what needs to be done and it's bringing the public along that they're encouraged by it I think so one of the projects we do around transparency is trying to identify pay-to-play so we actually published local political campaign financial donations and that's actually created some news around whether or not individuals who have been high dollar donors have received government contracts I think that's a lot of people lay people have been using that data and trying to identify patterns in it in as well as the media and we hear a lot of in the newspapers a lot of people saying that they want greater transparency and there's other groups that have joined the call for government transparency on the island so I think it's been successful well you know that's very interesting and I commend you for that you you said basically that you just put the data out there pay-to-play in other words here's the government official and here are the contributions that went to that government official from these businesses just put two and two together and you figure it out I mean is this a politicized kind of website where you target particular candidates or you just put the data out and because of the data is available people naturally follow their curiosity their instincts and use it the latter definitely we try not to be political we're not interested in the politics and you know the horse racing we want you know responsible government from whoever wants to give that to us whichever party here in Puerto Rico and we want people to really just be able to connect themselves if the governor of Puerto Rico came to your think tank and I'm confident someday they will and said you know we want some impartial non-partisan advice on how to build our economy how to have a more transparent government what would be one of the first thing that you might tell him or her as to what Puerto Rico needs to do in order to move in the direction of these free market and democratic principles well you know one area for sure is how to increase the flexibility in the labor market we have a number of laws including those that you know require certain types of severance packages to get a job you need a doctor's note even if you're not working in healthcare or food handling which is cost you about 30 to $35 to get so if you're a low-income person trying to find a job you have to find $30 to pay for a doctor to get a doctor's note to get a job and on top of that there's laws that challenge and make difficult for a lot of organizations to set up here in Puerto Rico there's laws that require certain residency requirements that and we look at a more globalized economy might cost other companies to take pause and say well you know do we want to jump into the legal hoops permitting is an area that's really a challenge on the island in terms of having to go through so many different agencies to open up your storefront so those are just areas right there where I think there are comments and solutions where anybody could say that we're really not creating the environment conducive for job growth beyond other things around education and how we can liberate parents to make smarter decisions for their kids and really empower and trust them to make to know what their child needs and create new opportunities that way as well. Well all these items that you mentioned over regulation permitting difficulties labor market regulation challenges with an educational system you could be talking from Hawaii as well and we're looking at Puerto Rico as a laboratory of what does work and what doesn't work and we certainly want in our own economy to avoid the kind of impact federal funding and the pulling of federal funding has had in Puerto Rico so we hope that we can help our economies find other means of shoring themselves up. In closing would you just share with our viewers a vision you have for the future of Puerto Rico just very briefly really the reason you brought the Center for Integrity and Public Policy together. Yeah my vision for Puerto Rico is one in which people can prosper create opportunities be entrepreneurial grow and actually be able to live here and thrive rather than need to look to either the federal government or to leave their homes to find the life that's dignified and fulfilled. Well that's a noble ambition and I'm so glad the Center for Integrity and Public Policy exists in Puerto Rico I'm confident that you will thrive and I look forward to a growing relationship that we will have with each other at the grassroots Institute of Hawaii especially as we tackle problems such as the Jones Act. Alvin thank you very much for being with us today. Thank you very much I'm looking forward to our collaboration. My guest today is Alvin Kenyone's president and founder of the Center for Integrity and Public Policy in San Juan Puerto Rico and as you see the world is not all that big we have similar problems with other regions across the planet and when we collaborate with each other and look at good research and apply it to public policy we can find solutions. I'm Kaleigh Akina with the Grassroot Institute until next week on Ehana Kako saying goodbye from the ThinkTek Hawaii Broadcast Network. Aloha.