 OpenStack Summit 2016 brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation and headline sponsors, Red Hat and Cisco. Now here are your hosts, Stu Miniman and Brian Graceley. And joined with Brian Graceley and we are live at the OpenStack Summit 2016 here in beautiful Austin, Texas. This is theCUBE's fourth year at the summit to my personal third year at the event. Brian, we were trying to figure out how many of these you've been to. Yeah, I think I've been to five, so yeah. So it's interesting, we're going to have three full days of coverage here. They said when this first started, the first OpenStack Summit was here in Austin and there was 75 people. This year we've got 7,500 people here. When the camera's on, Brian, you'll see the people streaming out from the keynotes here. A lot of people that we've seen in many years of these shows, but starting to see a lot of familiar faces to us, but new to OpenStack, I said it's a lot of those people that were in the VMware ecosystem, kind of figuring out where this fits in the Merantys keynote this morning. Boris was saying it's kind of the DevOps ninjas versus the VMware sys admins and that migration and change. Lots of stuff to go in through, Brian, but what's your thought so far in the opening keynote in the event? So my initial thought, and I'll sort of throw it back. Everybody's talking about prints these days. The thing that it dawns to me, because I was at the very second one, life is just a party, but parties weren't meant to last. We're now in that stage where it's sort of past the OpenStack hype. It's now into people having to do the real work. The last couple of years have really been about OpenStack being far less sexy, far less exciting, and a lot of real work getting done. We're seeing, what about 3,000 contributors, about 350 companies, I think it was a number of people that are contributing to OpenStack. We're seeing it get into telcos and to NFV, so moving away from that sort of bifurcation they have of do we compete against Amazon? Are we competing against VMware? So to me it's gotten to a point where it's sort of finding it's niche in the marketplace. Jonathan Bryce talked about 50 of the top 100, Fortune 500 companies have OpenStack somewhere, but the big message that I heard as well was OpenStack is part of the disruption. OpenStack is part of what companies are doing. It's that programmable infrastructure, and I think the OpenStack foundation, the OpenStack community has figured out, we play a role. We don't have to take on everything. We have to let the cloud native things do what they do. We have to let the providers do what they do. So it's coming along, I think, very well. Yeah, so there's always, in the analyst world, we love when there's the data. So there's a really good user survey that the OpenStack foundation is done like every six months, and we're actually going to have a couple of sessions today that'll dig into it, so don't want to go to it too much. But right, as you said in the keynote, they said half of the Fortune 100 are using OpenStack. Of course one of the things I'd look at and say okay, that doesn't mean that all of their infrastructure is on it. And you look at who's in the Fortune 100, and it was like oh well, keynote speakers like AT&T. Great, they're building services with that. You look, SAP was up on stage. Well these are technology providers, so the three big groups that they talked about were kind of the telcos, going to talk a lot about NFV network function virtualization. When it comes to those folks, we've got the technology suppliers. So there's the companies that are building clouds based on OpenStack, so we'll have Rackspace on today. GoDaddy's one of the people here. Of course you've got companies like IBM, Cisco, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, all building services. So they're users, but they're also the ones that are helping build it. One of the things I've looked at the last couple of years is how many people stood up when they say hey who's contributed code to OpenStack? Because it was really, it was those devs and those code contributors that made up a lot of the summit and over the last year or so we're seeing more of the users, we're focusing a little bit more on some of the operations and how do we get it into production? How do we reduce friction to get it? And yeah, one of the keynotes talked about it's still those people in processes things are still needs to mature. We still need to get there. Common I made is we look at immature environments and we say great, the code itself might be good but I've got to put some big professional services or said people out to do this and if we look at like when public cloud is I don't need to send 10 people, you can start small, you can start playing with the code and you can mature with it but it's more software led than it is services led and today there's a lot of services in the OpenStack environment. Yeah, but that services has always been a dominant part of open source, right? Everybody wants to say well we're gonna be the next Red Hat, Red Hat is fundamentally a services company. You look at some of the other big open source projects that are going whether it's around Big Data and Hadoop whether it's around Cloud Foundry, the numbers that are coming out there are still very services centric. Public cloud provides a great mechanism to get started but even in the OpenStack, I mean one of the big themes that's going on around OpenStack these days is how many more managed OpenStack services there? Essentially private cloud is a service so you talk about what IBM and BlueBox does. You talk about Cisco and MetaCloud. I was sort of expecting Boris or Morantis to go hey, here's our new announcement. We're going to sort of get in that space, we're going to talk to Rackspace so it's that evolution of like hey it is hard but now there's options to sort of help you get part of the way there. So Brian, I totally agree, I mean you think back to when IBM invested a billion dollars in Linux. That helped drive a lot of IBM global services. Question I have for you is if we look at Amazon, we look at Azure, it's the marginal economics are really about software. It's not about services. So will public cloud put pressure on that? Can we have kind of that traditional services model? Or to be competitive against the public clouds, will it need to be a little bit more turnkey, a little bit more baked with less of a services component? Yeah, I think that's sort of the easy narrative but you look at Amazon had huge announcements with, or I'm sorry, Accenture had huge announcements with Amazon, building an entire business unit. I was at the Google cloud event, tons of Tata was there, a number of big SI's saying look, we're going to help you get there. The end of the day, getting to these cloud models, Boris was right, nine out of 10 problems people have with getting to cloud is people in process. I actually think the people that are in that SI part of the industry are going to sort of take over becoming what the vars were. They're going to take over that sort of rack and stack low-lying stuff but people still struggle for how to get there. They still struggle for how do I change my business but there were some cool examples. The SAP one had, I want to talk about not building, making tires anymore for good year but mileage is a service. They're talking about air compressor companies doing sort of PSI and air as a service. That's the mindset that's happening. Underarm, we're doing fitness as a service as opposed to selling clothes. That's the mindset that sort of has to happen. IT has always been about reduced cost, highly available and now everybody's talking digital and saying how do I move my business. That's a long transition. So sometimes we want to blame OpenStack for not getting everybody there. They're a piece of this puzzle and I think Jonathan Bryce sort of finally came to that conclusion this week. Yeah, that's a great point, Brian, that the term from last year was really being an integration engine. So, being a piece of the overall puzzle, one of the things we've been trying to tease out, how does OpenStack fit with the big public clouds? In the user survey, a lot of those people of course they're using AWS. I mean, my joke's always, there's two types of users out there. There's the ones that are using AWS and those that haven't done a good survey of their environment, check their IPs because yeah, they're using AWS. So, I talked to somebody from Microsoft that's here at OpenStack and they're like, oh, come on, just put a little wrapper on stuff. We can put stuff into Azure. We can work with OpenStack. Google's stepping up their game. Happy we're going to have, represented from Google on theCUBE tomorrow. So, layout for us, is it bimodal on clouds or did these things all fit together? Look, everybody talks about hybrid cloud. They talk about, we've been hybrid cloud and multi-cloud for a long time. I mean, people have been using SaaS applications. Some are using AWS. Some are beginning to use Azure and so forth. The thing that's really interesting to me though is you look at some of those user surveys and one of the number one, at least most commonly referenced reasons why they're thinking about this is, I want some interoperability. People are still believing, whether it's going to happen or not, that the clouds are going to kind of work out some at least low level way that they're going to be kind of consistent. And whether that's an API, whether that means OpenStack's going to kind of go back and adopt some of the open APIs, whether we'll see an AWS. We saw Google starting to say, you know what? I got to get some of that enterprise money up here in my cloud. I'll extend those APIs for you. We're going to see those sort of things. They're not sexy. They don't make the best of headlines, but they're the kind of work that kind of has to get done if you want to help customers. And that's what it all kind of comes down to. We're still in the really early innings. Boris made a great point. Granted, he was using it as a marketing hype, but Amazon's a $10 billion company. They're growing really fast. And then you say it's a $2 trillion industry. It's still a small number. What Amazon does versus what Google does in a month versus what Microsoft does in a month is still relative. And you got to kind of keep that in perspective sometimes. Yeah, it was interesting. It was actually, there was a tweet from Martin Casado and I was just looking up. He said, as functionality moves up the stack from hardware through the hypervisor operating system, middleware, does the market actually get smaller? So one of the things that, you know, there was an analyst that said, you know, AWS may only be $10 billion, but that displaced $30 billion worth of others. So, you know, it's having a, you know, more of an impact proportional to what they had. It's like the old guerrilla warfare is there. They're taking out a lot of traditional stuff by non-traditional means. So from that angle, Brian, what's your take on kind of the developer community here? We talk, some of the private cloud discussion is always, does it really talk to your developers or are you just selling to your old, you know, storage and networking teams? You know, what's your take on how the developer angle fits here? I think the developer piece at the most simple level is developers want programmable something, right? And in this case, it's infrastructure. You know, I think the great myth of all these things, talking about DevOps is, you know, that the order of it is dev ops. It really should be sort of ops dev because the folks here are primarily operations people. They're primarily trying to serve that developer community, let them go faster. You know, I think at some point, OpenStack sort of had these ambitions that they were going to have, you know, native OpenStack applications. They were going to be essentially a pass layer. That didn't really happen and that's fine. There's really nothing wrong with that. But this is really about saying like, look, if you are going to be in the operations business, you're going to be in the ops side of things, which can help reduce costs, can help differentiate your business, be really good at it, figure out how to be better at doing this. You know, what we saw from say AT&T today was all about ops. I mean, it was talking about developers building new tools to make ops more effective, help them get to a thousand availability zones. You know, it's really to your point about do things go away. It really becomes, you know, can I actually get from the traditional vendors building very horizontal boxes, the stuff I want, or do I have to have the ability to build it myself? We're starting to see that a little bit and that's where that displacement starts to happen. Yeah, to some great points there. One of them, you know, we look at where VMware is. So, I- Or isn't. Or isn't. Because first of all, you know, I'm talking to a couple of VMware folks that are here and I said, well, from day one, you know, the NYSERA folks were here. They were heavily involved. So, from the networking angle, VMware has had a lot of play. But for the, you know, kind of full stack piece, you know, VMware's there and the user survey, it was 9% of customers that responded, you know, we're using vSphere. But, you know, you kind of wonder about the data because you know, lots of those big enterprises are using VMware. And so, is it that open stacks in a sandbox and that sandbox, I don't want to pay for licensing and when I go to production, maybe I'll do it. Even some of the big telcos, you know, are using VMware. So, you know, it's not a, you know, binary, you know, open stack comes in, VMware goes away, you know, VMware's still got a strong presence in the data centers and open stack today is really an on-premises discussion. So, what's your take? Do people still kind of mess that up as to, you know, where VMware fits or? I think there's a bunch of things. And this is actually a really, this year, this summit where what's going on with the Dell EMC VMware merger is sort of interesting. Because if you just play it out by technology, you could lay it out and say, well, VMware's going to be sort of relegated to, you know, you want to call it mode one applications, legacy applications, things that need tons of availability at the infrastructure level. But, you know, we saw today, I mean, one of the underlying themes today and we're going to hear about it all week is like, how do I start to run those, some of those legacy applications in Oracle and Microsoft and SAP on open stack? Does that make any sense? Is that something I want to do? Obviously, I would guess most of the open stack vendors here would love to start seeing that happen because it's a bigger piece of the pie. You know, and VMware's got to figure out where they want to be in this. You know, one of the really interesting data points of the user survey, without giving it all away is, you know, the number one reason people were looking at open stack, the most dominant one was, I didn't want it to be cheaper, right? We've heard it over and over again. I want free VMware. I want cheaper VMware. You know, that thing is going to keep pushing. That drum beat is going to keep pushing. People are going to figure out, you know, where VMware shakes out of this merger. It's an interesting time between the two. I think you're going to hear Red Hat pushing very hard on it. You're going to hear Morantis. But more importantly, you're seeing these hosted offerings. I keep coming back to it, but you know, those are the people that are going to sort of be displaced to run that thing. And those are VMware displaced people. And that's why you see so many people here that we used to see at VMworld are saying, hey, do I need to go learn open stack? And I think we'll continue to see that. Yeah, so Brian, you've been digging in on your research about kind of that discussion of applications. You know, what goes where, how does it fit? As we said, it's not a simple discussion. It is very nuanced. There's certain things you can say, well, you know, if it has this, this and this type of characteristics, you know, right, if I need it up for, you know, hours, days or something, I'm probably not going to spend nine months building an infrastructure for it. And then at the other end, if it never changes and it, you know, very cost sensitive, it probably isn't going to go, you know, on certain classes of public cloud. Can you fill us in a little bit about what you're working on the research, just kind of, if it's open stack related, great. But just in general, it gives us a flavor as to what people that would read your research on Wikibon would find. Yeah, so really been focused on two or three really big areas. Like you said, one is sort of application rationalization, application portfolio. Where should I put stuff? And that's probably the biggest question. Should I move stuff to the cloud? When do I move to the cloud? So we've been trying to, in as simple a way as possible, is saying like, look, here's the characteristics of things that make sense in a, you know, on demand, metered public cloud. Here's the places where, you know, you can augment your IT organization. So that's one of the areas. The other big one is really looking at these sort of digital business platforms, digital businesses. Everybody nowadays is talking about it. You know, they want to talk about, you know, I think Gartner said like, look, those 20% of those applications today are going to end up driving 40% of your business. Really trying to help people understand what's different about that. What does that mean? So we've been doing, we've got about a five or six piece set of research that's out this week and last week and next week. Really helping people understand like, okay, what are the core pieces? Where do I focus on it? OpenStack plays a role in that. But, you know, throughout the year, as we're at DockerCon, as we're at Cloud Foundry Summit, you know, they're going to play a role in this as well. So that's, those are the two big things because again, they come back to do I move to cloud? How fast do I move to cloud? And what should I put in the cloud? You know, and then the associated people in process. All right, so that's great, Brian. So one of the other things that was discussed in the keynote was, you know, Gartner got up. They talked a little bit about bimodal and that caused, I love Jonathan Bryce got up and he said, some people love it and some people hate it. And then his follow up actually said, he said, that's what he's seeing from a lot of enterprises. So, you know, every analyst firm that's not Gartner, we've all had our take on it. You know, David Floyer, our CTO, you know, wrote his piece on it. You know, I know when I talk on the infrastructure side, it's very rare that we can say, hey, just, you know, stick one thing in a sandbox and stick one thing over here. You know, that integration effort, you want to have platforms, you want to be able to move things back and forth. You need to understand the skill sets. It's not, you know, pets over here, cattle's over here and, you know, shoot one thing. I made a joke. I said, it's, you know, IT is Schrodinger's cat. It's either dead or alive. It's like, come on, you know, give me a little break. There was some phenomenal snark on Twitter, you know, regarding it, what's your take on this? So, you know, I think a couple of things. Number one, you know, one of the things that you learn when you've been in this industry for a long time is the subconscious of the community's soul or the company's soul comes out in their keynote. No matter what they want to say, what their thinking comes out in there. And I think at the end of the day, it says, look, the OpenStack Foundation wants to get, you know, acceptance by the enterprise. And they know that the enterprise trust, Gartner, whether or not you buy in a bimodal or not, I'm not a big fan of it. I don't think it works the way it should. But the other thing I think what's always very interesting is Gartner tends to put up a bimodal thing and then you get experience from people that are actual doers and you very rarely say, boy, these two match. And I think that's what people are really saying is, you know, are you trying to convey that we're enterprise ready by using somebody like Gartner or should we be telling our story through the super user groups and those types of things? To me, I think we're still seeing, you know, if you put it in Gartner lingo, most of the focus of OpenStack is in mode two. I think that's where they should be. That's where they're going to differentiate the business. You know, but it was a very interesting placement right at the beginning. We're going to try and establish right at the beginning. We love the enterprise and you can trust us. Yeah, so, you know, last year, Gartner actually said that OpenStack was a science project and we tore into it on theCUBE and we were saying, look, you know, this isn't a science experiment. It's something that's maturing. You know, show me a good technology that's going to be a foundational layer and say, oh, in five years it's gone from ideation to, you know, the platform that everybody runs things on. We know this takes maturity. You know, compute got solid, storage got solid, networking finally got solid. The rest of the stack, the core pieces, what's certified, they're getting out training. So, you know, OpenStack is maturing the way that if you think about it rationally, it should, it's good to see Gartner, you know, getting on board and supporting the community. So, Brian, we've got three days of coverage here. What kind of key big things are you looking for this week? Well, anytime you come to OpenStack Summit, it's always about users. Everybody's looking for validation from users and to a certain extent they're trying to figure out the dynamic because most of the conferences that people attend are very vendor dominated. They're very, you know, one-themed dominated. This is a community event, but people are still trying to flesh out, well, you know, let's translate community contributions to who's the winners and losers. Those are always the things we're trying to flesh out and then we're trying to figure out at the technology level, what's happening? What are the red hats of the world, the Cisco's of the world, the Intel's of the world doing to make this technology easier? So, we're going to flesh a lot of that out, excited about that. Yeah, that's great stuff. So, yeah, if we are going to have a number of users on the program here, really want to have a big shout out to our sponsors. Without our sponsors, we could not bring this programming here. SiliconANGLE Media, really excited to be here for the fourth year, the first year, when John Furrier and Jeff Frank went to Portland, number of people actually said, wow, we think OpenStack, maybe it's really for real, because theCUBE's here. So, love this community and big shout out to the sponsors. So, first of all, anchor sponsors, it's Red Hat in partnership with Cisco, an additional sponsorship from EMC, NetApp with Solidifier that's now a NetApp, part of NetApp through the acquisition, and EMC. So, three days wall-to-wall coverage, I'm Stu Miniman here with Brian Graceley. Hit us up on the Twitter's if you're at the convention center, prime location here, and a level one, the main hallway, kind of halfway between registration and the keynotes. So, lots of coverage here, the users, the thought leaders, people building the code, people putting these things in production. Thanks very much for watching. We'll be here with lots more coverage after this quick break.