 My name is Andrea Joseph McCathey and I'm an assistant professor at the College of Social Work at the University of Tennessee. And my general area of research pertains to looking at schooling experiences for students but looking at those experiences for students of color in particular and the ways in which inequity is impacting the lives of students of color. And you recently talked about the disproportionate suspension of black girls in the U.S. And I think the question I have when I hear these kind of stories is, why is equity so hard on our schools? We know that nationally, this is from 2017-2018 data, that black girls are 4.19 times, have 4.19 times the risk of receiving an out-of-school suspension. They have 4 times the risk for expulsion and 3.6 times the risk for school-based arrest. So when we're looking at what's causing some of this proportionality from the larger groups or the smaller group of girls, we think of the big picture things like, you know, is there punitive policies and punitive practices? I often think about, oftentimes when adults think about how to discipline young people, it comes from the way that you are disciplined as a young person. And so that may interfere in the way that they see or believe students can change behaviors without understanding the context, whether it deals with their physical health or mental health and something going on at home or in the community, right? We have zero tolerance policies that if a child brings, for example, a vape to school, they may get a one-year expulsion, right? So we have these sort of extreme practices that put students out of school. Should the child have brought a vape? No. Should they lose one year of education because of it? I would say, and many others would also say no. You know, racial disparity and even talk about racism or race in school has been in the headlines the past year or two. And I was asking, is this a welcome spotlight on this topic or is this introduced bad faith argument and actors around this debate? Yeah. I think, you know, with any concept or issue that's important and we want to address, there's so many opinions on how it can happen. And so that may come down state to state, right? I think we've seen a recent movement across different states where having conversations around equity, couch from a critical race perspective, may get some pushback because some people may see it as divisive. They may see it as, you know, all students receiving the same funding. They're all receiving the same access to education. So inequities that we see, you know, it's not because they're not being provided with the same resources. Whereas, you know, the other side of the argument is more need to be done. It's great how far we've come in terms of trying to provide more access to equally resourced schools. But the conversation is more about equity today, that how can we give schools, how can we give young people what they need versus giving everyone the same. What would surprise someone about what your research? Okay, I think something that surprises people because I've had this conversation with people here in the US and abroad, because I did a little research in England on racially disproportional school suspensions for students of color in England, right? And by and large, when you have this conversation with people about disproportional suspensions, they'll say sort of like what we say to adults, do the crime, pay the time, right? Or they'll say, well, if students stop behaving poorly, then they wouldn't get in trouble, right? But it's more the conversation about disproportional suspensions has always been, has never been only about behavior. So behavior is one fraction of it. Can, should students follow rules? Yes. Should students understand sort of expectations for learning and engagement and behavior and socialization in school? Yes. However, there's also these other elements and the ways that intersects across race, class, gender, and belief systems. And so sometimes, for example, if an educator was taught that, you know, kids are to be seen and not heard, right? You come to class, you show up, you just do what you're supposed to do. Well, the extent to which they don't align with that makes them hyper visible to that educator, because the educators have been trained about the way children are supposed to act. But if that child is dealing with some childhood adversity, right? So that could be abuse at home or neglect at home. Exposure to violence. We can't expect every child to show up in class the same. Everybody's coming up with a different backpack, right? Yep. And so I think that's a reality, that it's not just behavior that gets students suspended. It's the way that they're perceived. It's even well-intentioned schools that have, for example, restorative justice practices that look at building relationships with young people, between young people and amongst adults. Even with these great interventions, you still may have a punitive policy on the books that says, if you're late to class, you get a detention. And if you miss the tension, it's a suspension, but some kids have to go home and take care of their little brother so they can't serve after school detention. So all of a sudden, the kid who's late to school every day because they're bringing their siblings to the bus stop because their parents work at seven, then they get the tension because that's what's on the books. But they can't serve the tension because they got to pick up their siblings after school or they have to work to support family, right? And so being disproportionately suspended or suspensions in general, it's not a black and white issue. There are so many factors that influence it, and I think that's what most people are surprised about. All right, well, thank you for your time. All right, you have a great day.