 Wel i'n gweinio, cwrser a ffwylais drwsion o'r gweithio yng Nghymru yn yr arwain o'i gweithio. ac drwsion i gweithio gweithio'n gweithio bwysig o'r Gweithiau Brannu Cymru. Oswn i eichnydd amethar Llywodraeth, Salleann Hart, ac rwy'n gweithio'r gweithio. Rwyf iawn gweithio'r gweithio ynghylch, mae Llywodraeth William Jackson Wood yn rhighod o'r fwyllgor. O wnaeth я fy mwyaf i gweithio gweithio ar y gweithio. Felly weithio'n gwneud o colig pwyllwr. ac rwy'n cael ei wneud yr cyfrannu Llywodraeth a'r Bradnum sy'n rhoi cyfrannu'r cyfrannu. Rwy'n cael ei wneud ar y cwrdd? Rwy'n cael ei wneud ar yr cyfrannu Llywodraeth. Ieith eich cefnogi ar y cwrdd? Rwy'n cael ei wneud. Rwy'n cael eu cyfrannu Llywodraeth a'r Bradnum i'w chael eu gwirionedd. A'n gwasanaeth oherwydd, mae'n gweld yn cael ei gafod i'r adonnal. Please can those present in the council chamber note that everything on your desk, including your laptop screen, is likely to be broadcast at some point, and that the camera follows the microphone being switched on. So councillors and officers advised to wait a couple of seconds before speaking to allow the camera to catch up. Please, can anyone participating in the meeting via Teams indicate that you wished to speak via chat column? Felly, dwi'n meddwl i'n lefnodd gyda'r cwmmerol yma ymlaen nhw'n mynd i ddwylliant. Mae'r cwmmerol yn cwestiynau bod maen nhw'n meddwl i'ch cymaint o'r awn amdano, sy'n meddwl i'ch cymaintrwyddol, ac mae'n meddwl a'i gweithio'n meddwl yn gallu chi eisiau. Mae'r cwmmerol yn ei gynhyrch yn y cwmmerol, ac mae'n meddwl i'ch gael eich gwneud i'w ddwy'n meddwl i'r cymaint. Mae'r ffyrdd o'r amser yn ei gweithio, Gwybod i'r hyn o'r cwerthu i gael eu celfoedd, hanfodd i'n meddwl y celfoedd, a chael i'n ddod i'r ffalu, i gael eu celfoedd yn ymgynghwyl. Rhywbeth yn ymddi'r gweld i'r cyffredin unrhyw i'r cyffredin Salyann Hart, a rhaid i'n ddod i'r cyffredin o'r ffalu ddod i'r cyffredin Merhbwrn. I'r cyffredin yn ymddi'r cyffredin. Felly i'n gweld i'n gweld i'r cyffredin. Ymddi'r cyffredin. i chi'n meddwl i bobl? Mae, mae siwng Mwnghgrif recording. Siwng Mwnghgrif. Siwng Mwnghgrif, mae Ynw'rarydd Fyrdd Fyrdd, yn ymifintrodufd, i ddiddorol i'r roi Llyfr wasgol. Ynw'r arsig i pellwch chi fe fydd yw y dost i mendig ymddi. Dyma yw'r gyfer o gyfliad yn fawr. Mae'r gyfer o'r gymaint. Mae'r gyfer o'r gyfer o'r gweith. Mae'r cyfrindig amser. Mae'r gyfrindig yn bynnag. Ynw'r gyfrindig, o'r ffordd wych yn dweud bod gynaf yn ychydig i'ch gwaith ymryd â'r methu'i. Maen nhw Cynlliden John Williams Hello, maen nhw Cynlliden John Williams Felly, rhai ffafawr o gyrdyn newydd yn ffawr mewn fawr. Felly, rhai i gyrdyn nhw Llywodraeth yn Vitamin C02 Rhaid i'ch meddwl. Rhaid i'ch meddwl o'r peth oeddiol Rhaid i'ch meddwl o'r ffawr o'r ffordd yma Chreif hr yn barty i'r parw am ddechrau Gyfrddwch yn byth. Rhaid i'ch meddwl?キwyd. Mae gennym nhw hefyd fel Helan Cornwall, gweithio y gweithio helyniadol cymdeithasol i gyfunding gael'r ffordd. Diolch, Helan. Mae'n hynny'n gwrthiau ym Mhwyaf'r gyffredin. Gweithio byddwch i'r Advocadau Dymechry Whole Llorent, â'r rhwyng hon? Gaen, mae yma'r rheidwch. Rwy'n rheidwch'n rhannu rhannu perthynasol. Mae yma'r rhannu perthynasol i weldfyn gennym nhw. 1, y gwnaeth am y dyma wedi directorsaeth a ddechrau'r i-interest, ac maen nhw'n fyddai'r ddweud o yngrifennu o'r ddedd sydd weithio'r ei ddysgu ond y ddweud. Yn y fyddersaeth dipasigiaid i chi'n mynd i'w ddysgu'r ddysgu, dwi'n ymgylch yn y methu'r ddechrau'r gydweithiaeth, nid ddychrau'r ddod haith gwybod. 2, y gwnaeth am y dyma wedi'r gendag ddysgu'r ddod o dyma, Mae'n gilydd i fynd i ddwywi'n mynd i'w methu yr Uneddaethol yn y chweithio o'r ochr mewn maneil 2023 wedi'u hyffordd hyffordd dros amser o phesietad o'r amsgarol o hyffordd yma? Ynna dros'r lle? Dwi'n mynd i'n rhoi ysgol, mae'n oes bod eu llai'r llai'r amser, mae'na talol yng nghymrwydd yn braf yn y flwyddyn pwysig. Mae'r ddysgu o'r ddau'r mhwngelwyd yng Nghymru yn 28 ddweud y nifer 2 rpm, ac mae'r ddweud yng Nghymru yma, ond gan gwybod ddim, mae'n rhaid i chi'n gweithio'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r 10 am ym mhwngelwyd ac i'n gweithio'r ddau'r 10 am. Yn ni wrth gweithio. Gweithio'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau? Pryddo i'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau? The committee therefore agrees, approval of the minutes as a correct record by affirmation. So, moving on to item number four and our agenda, it's the review of the hybrid policy. The committee is being asked to note this report, make recommendations for any further actions mae'r bwysig wedi gweithio'r rhan o'r hyn o'r cyfnod. Felly, ymddangos i fynd y HIRs yng Nghymru, Helen Cornwall, os ymweld, ymddangos i fynd i gyd. Ie, wrth gwrs. Ond wefwyd o'r ffordd o'r hwygfyrddol hyd yn ysgrifftol, a'r hyn o'r ffordd yn ein gymryd yma, a'r ffordd o'r holl o'r ffordd o'r holl o'r ffordd, mae'r hyn o'r ffordd o'r hwyl, Rydyn ni wedi bod yn ystafod gyda hwn ar gyfer gwelliannau fod yn gweithio meddwlol er gael y ffordd o wrtheteg a ddefnyddio'r cyfnod ar gyfer y cyfried Strategiaid, mae meddwl yn meddwl yn cyfydlio cyflwytoedd gyrraeddol ar gyfer ffarts. Rydyn ni'n cael eu cyflwytoedd gyda'r rhyngwladol unigŵr ddiwedd i'r gwaith, ymddangas, area and team and organisation. So a lot of the positive things that have come out of the report are aligned with things that are all national coming out of the hybrid work agenda. So things like being able to recruit from a wider pool, giving flexibility for people like carers and people with childcare responsibilities. And we also surveyed members and members found that the introduction of a more hybrid working arrangements was positive and a game for a very similar things in terms of reduction of travel and being able to fit your other responsibilities around being able to also attend meetings and things like that. There's also in there about the customer output. Obviously there's been a lot of surveys recently in connection with also the four-day week, but our statistics in terms of KPIs have not been affected since we've introduced a more hybrid model and we've had the recent customer contact survey of which the results are in the appendices as well around maintaining those standards whilst we continue to do that. So obviously within the action plan there are a number of recommendations that we know we need to continue to develop what we want. So one of those things is around making sure our managers feel trained in how we support hybrid. So it brings different issues out that we need to address so making sure that our development needs for our staff are addressed and that there aren't any differentials between those people that are coming into the office and those people that choose to kind of work in a more hybrid fashion. We've also acknowledged that we need a digital skills order and review so that's to ensure that people are using the digital and software skills effectively and that any gaps in that you know in order for us to be able to work efficiently. And then I think one of the the other two kind of key things to come out of that action plan is how we address induction and new starters. Obviously historically when you come into an organisation you get a feel for the organisation, when you're sitting in a team you get to know those key players bumping to people. So we want we need to have a address how we kind of try to recreate that in a different way to make sure that everybody coming into our organisation really understands and running alongside that is just really a review of the brand of SCDC to make sure that we you know people coming here all understand what we're about and what we're trying to achieve so that we really all have the same positive experience of what it's like to work here. So if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer. Thank you, thank you for the report. Thank you and for summarising it there as well. Do we have any questions? Thank you. Yes, councillor Richard Stavall. Thank you chair and through you to Helen and Jeff. Hybrid policy is is kind of an essential these days and I was just reflecting on some of my career you know back in the even back in the 70s you know people were pulling you know to go hybrid and it was regarded as a good thing you know particularly in you know cases of heavy workload and people needing to focus and so on. But I think in the detail and you've touched on one or two of the I think particular pressing points and could I just highlight two one is IT provision and you've commented on the review and that's part of the action plan as I understand but of course you know somebody sitting at home with a slightly dodgy internet connection can really be detached, can get detached, they can do their work and typing and so on but as for integrating with their team you know that can be quite difficult and just IT skills you know can I fix a thing you know without having to call IT services out because I'm at home. So I do add you a comment on that. Also on how teams work because you know various comments in the press you know particularly post lockdown and I'm thinking like the business press were around the possibility for certain groups to become detached if you had a hybrid meeting those who could push their case more firmly who were physically present would always have an advantage over those more diffident members who were connected remotely. So it points to things like excellent chairing of hybrid meetings and I'm wondering how you're addressing that and then just as a footnote to all of that. I think in team working it's really valuable it may not sound terribly practical but it's really valuable just knowing where your fellow team members are physically. Are they at home or in the office? Are they travelling? Are they off sick? And I think you get almost a sense of that if you're at work in an office but you don't if you're a bit detached. I wonder if there's some way well certainly I'd be interested in your comment on that but also how could we do that in the hybrid circumstances just have give people a feel for where all of their colleagues I mean we're talking about half a dozen people perhaps but where are they and how can I get them. So there are a couple of questions I have more but let's stop there and yeah thank you. Thank you thank you is that coming to you Helen? Coming to to me initially I think yeah it is important that we have good quality IT there's certainly where we've got the ability to deliver that but we're ensuring that actually what we're using is up to date we're currently in a process of rolling out new laptops for officers because some of the laptops that we're using are now sort of four or five years old and and perhaps not up to the standard that that we have at the moment that's already that we need at the moment so that's that's happening right now. In terms of people working where they've got issues at home we you know people aren't banned from coming into the office now obviously if people have don't have the facilities to work from home people can still come in they still offer all of the facilities here there's not much we can do about people's home internet access that's that's the difficulty um but as I think you've seen we we now have moved all of our own officers onto the first floor so that you've got that kind of sense of community so if someone's coming in even if somebody from their team doesn't happen to be in the office they'll have somebody sitting near them who they'll know who they'll be regularly interacting with so we we have got that we have got the that that sense of community that we're trying to build we've told all teams that they need to get together at least twice a month as a team so that people keep that personal interaction because I think you all agree that's that's really important. One of the things that we have noted is that there's a danger when people are working from home that that sense of team can drift away. In terms of the managers keeping tabs on people yeah it's it's we're giving our managers the skills that they need to do that both in terms of a pack that Helen put together actually that's gone out to managers but we're also running leadership academy training that's happened for one group of managers already this year and we're just planning that the next group and a big part of that is giving managers the skills that they need to understand how people are doing to keep an eye on people and to make sure that they're still building that rapport with the team and we understand how the team are thinking so it is it is more challenging for managers who have to operate in a very different way as you rightly say if you happen to be sitting with people and you know where they are on a regular basis that builds a certain type of camaraderie but actually we're also finding it's easy for people to get together as a team using that for example that's confusing because it's called teams but teams to get to you if you use the team system so actually if you've got people that are out and about um like like some of our planners for example that go out on site quite a lot and spend a lot of time on the district actually it's a lot easier for them to get together um virtually as a team a couple of times a week just spend 10 sort of 15 minutes chatting about what they're doing and where they're that that they're going that that actually wouldn't have been able to do if they were primarily off this place so that there are there are sort of the swings around about um but yeah we are very aware of the fact that managers need to to be given the skills to manage in a very different play I don't know if there's anything you wanted to add to that Ellen? I suppose the only thing is obviously yes we've identified around the the leadership and the the skillset that we need to provide for managers and like Jeff said um we've already put out a toolkit which details a number of different things that um managers can use within their team we've also rolled out team charters which quite clearly um you know teams then can manage their own expectations expectations within their team about how they communicate and how they do so we will continue uh like Jeff said alongside the leadership academy to provide managers with those tools um you know and ideas about how they can recreate those kind of things in a hybrid manner. Does that answer your questions? Chair thank you thank you very much through you Jeff thank you um to Jeff and to Helen um just one perhaps follow up to that um team effectiveness and team leadership um are there um I mean we've talked about metrics and performance metrics and ultimately kpi's which are the result of effective teams but are there any who will intermediate metrics that could be applied just to check progress? Yes the council is actually very focused on not only the key kpi's which report in the performance indicators but actually on management information systems and what we're looking to do is strengthen management information systems across the council we've got some areas that have traditionally been really good at the information they've provided and again the planning department is a very good example of that where you've got um tools that that are providing up to up to the minute information on what's happening across you know across the teams and we're looking to learn from that and roll that out to all managers so they've got live dashboards wherever possible um that's going to take probably about a year to 18 months to roll out across the whole of the council but one of the key aspects is learning from when there is good practice and making sure that we give that good practice to everybody in the council so yeah there again different services have different metrics in their management information systems but most services have got them and where they haven't got them they're going to be introduced not only that but leadership team which meets weekly are going to monitor some of those key indicators on a weekly basis so that we get a we can see if things start to move in the wrong direction and then it's always easier to head off a problem that it is to deal to deal with it once it's developed so yes management information systems are important part of how the council is going to work moving forward thank you chair yeah through you chair thank you thank you um can't sound about them thank you chair um I just had uh one kind of a couple of requests on the actual report side for when this comes back in a year or whenever can you remind us what CIPD is and um also I know it sounds obvious but it would be really useful to have a definition right at the very beginning of the report saying what hybrid working is because it doesn't say it and it's um it it becomes obvious you know but because in times to come this might become such a normal thing that we forget what it was if you should I mean okay so um but the substantive questions are um I was thinking about the business of people being hybrid working at home and I'm pleased to see that there's there's the distinction between those who are on the go and those who are desk based and I wondered if there are sort of set restrictions on those who've got access to highly confidential data you know finance or personnel data or that they can only work in a particular way maybe only in the office or only on a specific device and are there or is that all managed by electronic gateways as it were um and and secure logins and such like and I'll ask if I make I've got a second one but I'll pause on that one if I may through you chair thank you Helen it's time for you thank you um yes um we don't play specific restrictions as such on people but obviously those um employees who are aware that they deal with confidentiality um well all of our employees have to go through GDPR training and things like that and all of our officers have to use council devices which have got the IT systems in place to ensure that they're you know secure and things like that we've um obviously moved away from a lot of paper and um physical attributes and so the majority of our um data is stored electronically which is obviously protected by the council's network information systems but we do obviously reiterate to all staff that they have to be mindful that if they are working in a public place where they can see you know things and they are working in a confidential nature that they must you know obviously adhere to the same principles as they would if they were in the office and often in the office you know we've got a very open plan so you you have to be mindful all the time of what you're dealing with and who around you might be able to see something so I think the principles run through in terms of officers regardless of whether you're here working in another office or working at home and even at home we have to be mindful of the the simple stuff like looking um uh you're you're computed when you go for make a cup of coffee that's a silly thing okay Emma I'll just add one small thing to that in the unlikely event that a device is lost or stolen it can be wiped remotely so actually all of the confidential data will be removed from any device oh good that's useful to know thank you okay um so the second one is it's a bit um convoluted you said in your presentation Helen that you the members have been asked um been involved in the um information gathering about the hybrid policy and I wondered if that was members being asked as users of services provided by the officers or whether that was as users of them of remote working themselves because in this document there I can't see any reference to members being actually sorry it's a bit of an esoteric point but being part of the council and using this too I know we are and but um so in other words that we effectively are by default hybrid workers as members and um I just wondered whether we were those questions were being asked of members as remote workers which we are or whether we were being asked as members who are trying to access people who were maybe working from home do you sort of mean that and and it's just a feeling that right so if you if you have um if you're trying to work remotely obviously we have an IT help desk and as members we have an IT help desk but I just wondered whether there is the same amount of consideration being given to members who are working from home in a rather different way to the you know we haven't we haven't got access to the same kind of files and things I mean okay we've got modern girl but I just wondered whether there's the same consideration given to members as there are to staff thank thank you I just like to welcome councillor Mark Howard to the meeting thank you chairman it is courtesy normally that I would apologise for my weak behavior but since I was attending my grandson's sports day I don't apologize at all thank you Helen over to you for that yes so um I'll respond in terms of the member survey the member survey was sent out um in to gather information in both of those aspects actually so interestingly to see what your feedback is in being able to work in a more hybrid way since obviously the meetings have now become hybrid um and whether there's positives and also opportunities for continued learning which I think um is reflected a little bit in the report and and similar to officers I think in terms of that making sure there's equality in both the people in the room and the people that attend online um but it was also to gather information in terms of how you interact with the officers who are working hybrid so yeah um in answer to your question it was a dual purpose just on the technology issue we're continuing to work with 3CICT to give members increasing access to being able to share documents and um diaries with officers but that a significant step was made for forward last month um those officers can share elements of um office 365 and we're still working towards delivering improved communication through teams which will allow joint teams of members and officers and I say the sharing of documents thank you um councillor John Williams thank thank you chair I just want to um say um thank you to to head and Jeff for the review I think I want to emphasise that um how hybrid policy is at the core of our transformation program and also our four-day week and without this flexible um hybrid policy neither of those would be would be possible and successful so um thank you very much for the review um personally I think that um the way that we work in this council is very um productive and um you know we are the one of the leading councils in this and um we certainly will continue to be so and again that's a thing thank you very much for the review and and the support that you've been given members thank you thank you thank you um do we have any other questions I just got a just a comment oh sorry sorry councillor so yeah thank you chair um so um I just wanted to um mention how useful that CIPD report was um it was very helpful I wondered if um Southcams had actually participated in that survey um as a as an organisation um I don't believe that we did on this occasion no but it was a very useful report yeah absolutely so um I think it um I looked at that a little late in the day I mean it should be read alongside the report it's full of useful comments and one of the recommendations that come through that report for policy makers and I guess we fall into that category of policy makers was myth busting uh and of course we're doing myth busting all the time um and I think in regard to things like hybrid working which um some of our residents might not understand um then we like to tell the facts about how things how things are um and so um we generally have very good flow of communication about how things are going and that's when the pleasures of being a member of this committee but for our colleagues who um may not be in that kind of day-to-day contact with those um that kind of good reports of uh for example hybrid working what's the best way of getting that information to them um do we publicise this well um are there is there information on insight for example which we could um encourage uh other members to go and look at um to help appreciate the progress that's being made and the things that are being done for you chair thank you yeah that's a really good point I mean we end up we have a weekly bulletin that goes out to all members and officers for example um in the one that's going to come out I think later on this week for for example there's going to be a link to a video which talks about the work that's being done in the planning service that there's the opportunity perhaps for us to look at doing something similar in relation to hybrid working because actually that's that's often an easy way for people to get the information when it's convenient for them they just need to click on the link and look at the video so um I'll discuss that with some other officers outside this meeting and uh and see if that's the best way of disseminating the information yeah through you chair thank you thank you thank you very much um thank you members um I did look out cipd because it wasn't on the tip of my tongue and I've got that as the chartered institute of personnel and development uh council mark howe I'm so sorry chairman the problem is we're coming in late you don't know this question's already been answered so I want to ask a question with regards to people who are working out of the office if I just use that generic term and they're dealing with confidential information can you tell me what's happening there please you're fine okay only just miss that one but we'll go over it again if that's okay thank you yeah um in essence um it's very similar to what's going on in the office in terms of making sure that all staff are trained in GDPR and confidentiality and actually as we move away from a lot of physical documentation things are stored which are then protected um electronically by our IT systems uh but staff are also given information and told about making sure that there is an awareness of where they are working and so whether that's in the office at home or in a public space mindful of the information that they've got chairman again on the risk that this has already been said um when I in the past had to work in an environment where jeffin was very confidential we had certain screens put on them unless you were right in front of them and within a certain distance it made no difference to someone you're looking at them may I can give you some advice that that be looked at if certain highly confidential things are being looked at I'm assuming more in the housing department than anywhere else but it could be right throughout the council thank you thank you thank you um there's nothing else I think the only thing I think I just spotted there was a missing full stop on page 22 in the in the box that comes just before uh although they may have some pre-determined hours location uh requirements and then it's got a cab it's got individuals in the team it's got capitalized I think there's full stop so um so members um we're invited to make recommendations regarding the action plan and I think there've been some actions that come through that and obviously we'll be on the minutes and we'll be um recommended um and uh to agree a further update in a year's time it's it's does that sound like a um the right length of time but lovely and I think you were going to mention Jeff that there'll be some information there that may well be coming changes within that time scale as well thank you and we're just now invited to note the report so can I say that we've noted thank you thank you members next up lovely thank you okay um item number five on our agenda is the um HR recruitment retention and absence data for May 2023 and we're being invited to again note the report and thank you again Helen um for presenting this report to us thank you chair uh so it was agreed um previously you got a lot more statistics um however what we are trying to do is give you some more real-time data so our HR system now allows for us to um give you data on a much more up-to-date basis so what you've got here is the stats for last month um and so as you can see the turnover stats for the last month are relatively low uh these are voluntary um turnover stats um obviously um we can give you stats that compare to other points in the year if that's helpful and I guess some feedback in terms of whether there are different things that you want to see um and we are also looking to um develop some recruitment and retention statistics as part of the uh four day week program and like I've put in there we're starting to look at surveying staff um that I've been here for about six months to look at um how we are retaining staff or what we might be able to do to stop staff leaving um and we're also hoping to launch the new recruitment module which will again give us a wealth more stats in terms of recruitment and and uh things like that uh in terms of our absence data it has increased slightly from last month but compared to last year is relatively stable and again um we aren't able to give you because the reduction in numbers we're not able to break down those statistics without sharing like information that may be deemed confidential um so um you've got kind of an overview of the month there um but again if that would be helpful to do that on a comparison against the year target then um you know we can do that as well. Thank you, thank you. Councillor Henry Bradlin. Thank you Helen um I I uh you can see I'm looking at the sun paper but I also did look at it online and either way I found these white on blue boxes almost impossible to read um I don't know if that's just my eyesight but I found it very hard to read them um but um and I don't know if that's just a product of the way the output from a standard software package is doing it but I just wondered whether it was possible to do it back on white or something like that you know whatever um but I think it's partly it's just very small but anyway um one of the things that I found myself asking with a lot of this data and I'm I'm referring to the table in the middle of page 35 for example it's days lost working um for the current period and the previous period it's it's not clear whether the previous period it's referring to the comparator period is the previous month or the previous year it just doesn't say so we're not quite sure if we're looking at like like last year or last month um and uh I just wondered whether this is something that is you're finding useful uh I think it'd be useful that it does come back to employment and staffing but I just wondered if this is a format or that that that you find helpful and gives you hooks if you've got things that you're worried about and gives you early warning of things thank you Helen would you like to come back on that um yes certainly so this is part of our one of our standard reporting packages and I can certainly look at changing the colour and try and make that a bit bigger as well um yes apologies that it doesn't say but it is compared to the previous month so but we can compare on a number of different things that the package um is huge and gives us all sorts so it's really trying to drill down um my team do look at this on a monthly basis and obviously they have the finer detail and so we look at those and we use those to determine what interventions with that we might need to take or if there's an area of concern so um you know if um for example stress um has increased what mechanisms can we put in place so yes we definitely use this data um considerably but obviously it's more in the detail so this just gives you an overview. If members have got any specific information that isn't included in this um and they would like please please let us know what we'll look to make sure that that goes in in the future and this is actually the format that's used for our managers as well as for the members so actually this is a really good investment of time by the HR team because it provides something that's useful across the board um so yes it is it is certainly used not only by the HR team but by the managers generally. Thank you thank you um one of the benefits of looping it on the screen is the can make it bigger so that's what I did um Councillor Richard Stoball. Chair thank you um so um with regard to um retention um and absence there are a few things going on of course we've just been talking about hybrid working which has its own set of benefits um and effects on the workforce um there's also the four day week um and I'm wondering how you might tease the effects apart if you will it may be very difficult to do but um Helen you were just saying that the package uh sorry Jeff perhaps um but um you're saying that the package is very capable um but I wonder if it might be this could be based on time scales and and when things happen and so on but could we begin to see the effects different effects um to be able to um place in numbers on them um yeah I might hand over to Helen in a minute but as part of measuring the impact of the four day week the HR team are developing a range of indicators particularly around recruitment to find out how influential the fact that we're running a four day week pilot has been in terms of people who apply for jobs and who uh accept jobs I'm not quite sure how far that package is developed Helen in a unit position team and date us on that um yeah so in in terms of a package um so there are a number of different surveys that we're trying to do one like I've said about those people that have applied for jobs but haven't been successful but have been interviewed obviously we rely very much on honesty and you know some people may not want to admit that they're coming to work here just for the four day week so um or for another reason so but we are starting to collate that data so certainly um on application forms now we ask why people want to come and work here so we're going to do the follow-up survey for people who um have been interviewed but haven't been successful in terms of whether they might look to reapply for a job here and then the survey which will be kind of like a a stay interview I think the current kind of thinking is so talking to people have been here six months like you know how how have you found it have been here what have been the positives um and then looking to kind of look at that group of people that have got the potential you know to maybe look elsewhere how do we keep them in the organisation thank you Helen that certainly answers my question about the survey of those who have been unsuccessful at interview I was trying to work out what that what that constituted for thank you uh uh councillor Stowe does that answer your question it does chair thank you thank you thank you uh councillor Sinita Hansraic I'm just curious have you heard anybody saying they'll leave and once the four day week came in they decided not to um we do offer every person who wants to leave the organisation and exit interview um and one of those questions is around um you know has there been any impact um but I don't have the data in front of me so I'd have to have a look at that but it is something that we try to collate as well as any feedback on um our hybrid provision as well as feedback on IT and skills and development learning opportunities so this you know everybody has the opportunity to either meet with someone in the HR team or to complete the form online and we gather that data and again it's something that we use then to for interventions in terms of what can we do um if there are a lot of people saying the same thing when there are issues thank you thank you it'd be interesting to know if anybody changed their mind and didn't really didn't leave because of the four day week perhaps yeah thank you thank you um any other questions members comments uh councillor John Williams I mean the only point I'll make is is an obvious one is that um you know it's it's early days but um the the uh recruitment of staff and the filling of those posts um you know for many years I've sat here and listened to us not able to fill posts and the information we've got the report here is very encouraging um that as a result of four day week it would appear that we're we are now not in that position absolutely lovely to see that we're having applications and yeah able to recruit to post thank you I was going to say if that's okay chair that um it's again it's difficult to know whether it definitely is the four day week but I think members will be aware that there were particularly three posts in planning they've been vacant for a long time that suddenly not then got filled very quickly after we started the four day week trial now um you can't say that that was definitely the four day week but I think it's a little bit more than a coincidence having that flexibility yeah thank you um so members we're actually uh if everybody's finished with our invitations to to note this report so I think we've duly noted thank you very much and the last item is the date of the next meeting so uh we have that as Friday the 15th of September and set September not December can I just check 10 a.m. Friday the 15th of yes chair I can confirm that we are at 10 a.m. lovely thank you thank you members and thank you thank you for your time today