 Welcome. Thanks for being here today, joining us for a little bit of your time. We're so grateful to have you joining another episode of the non-profit show. I'm glad to be back here as co-host with Julia, and I'm thrilled to have our guest Rose Snyder joining us. Rose is a coach and consultant, works with so many organizations. She has an athletic background, and as we shared a little bit about Title IX anniversary, we talked a little bit about that as well in our green room chatter. But today's conversation with Rose is about engaging your boards and how you might do that in strategic conversation. So before we jump into the conversation with you, Rose, we want to make sure that our viewers and our listeners know who they are looking at or listening to. Thanks to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy for creating this beautiful, brilliant platform of discussion and conversation. I'm always so honored each and every day, unless I'm on vacation, to join you as co-host. I'm Jarrett Ransom, Julia's personal non-profit nerd, but there's plenty of non-profit nerdiness within me to go around. Also, CEO of the Raven Group. We are honored to have the continued support, investment partnership with our presenting sponsors. You can see those on the screen, and I'll also give a shout out to Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, and the non-profit thought leader. If you've joined us for any of our episodes, you've probably heard that we are marching close to our 600th episode. Yes, that is 600. I know, Rose, shake your head because it is unbelievable. That's awesome. Yeah, you can find us on Roku, YouTube, Fire TV, Vimeo, as well as if you're a podcaster like I am, you can also stream us on your podcasting channel. Check us out wherever you prefer. We're still working on that hologram for Julie and I to just show up ever so presently on the couch next beside you. But again, we're honored to have these continued investors and supporters of the show so that we can have these fantastic conversations like the one that we are queuing up now with Rose Snyder, again, coach and consultant with rosesniderconsulting.com. Welcome, my friend. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here with both of you. We are thrilled to have you in the green room chatter. You know, I shared that I've had the great privilege of seeing Rose in action as I was working with a client and she was also assigned to this client. And so just so thrilled to have you. But for those of you that may not be familiar with you and your work, Rose, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do in our sector. Wow, it's like, where do you start? You started the beginning to start where I currently am. I think probably starting where I currently am and my road from 30 years in Colorado Springs as a nonprofit consultant, but also a swim coach and also a mother of three and my husband got a job at the university. So we moved three years ago and I decided to put my energy into getting connected into my community here and giving back in whatever way I kill it. I got connected with the community foundation through Paul of NS and I've been doing nonprofit work but at the same time while COVID was going on I got my coaching credential through the International Coaching Federation and the thing that stuck with me was in my coach training coaching is different than consulting. And the question would always be when is the client done? The client's done when they can hold the coaching. And I thought, you know what? There's a lot of organizations that could benefit from a blend or a hybrid of consulting and coaching. So I've kind of formed my practice now on blending consulting with coaching so clients can hold the consulting. So it's been kind of a journey over the last two years during COVID and I've just learned so much and blessed to be working part-time with Paul and now at the community foundation at the Center for Healthy Nonprofits. And I'm just busy, I'm still doing a lot of consulting and coaching and doing that those 20 hours and I'm just really enjoying it. I love it. Good for you. Well, you know, we're really interested in this topic of strategic planning. And one of the things that we thought would be a really interesting conversation to have with you is all about the conversation of strategic planning. And I want to start off by asking you why in the heck are boards so resistant to this concept? And what's going on? That is a great question. And I think it's less about being resistant to not having the time or the know-how have the time to think strategically. And I work with a lot of boards on, okay, do you use a consent agenda? Do you allow enough time to think strategically at your board meetings and have those opportunities to have those generative discussions to play the what if game? So I think it's really sometimes teaching the boards how to really manage their agenda and allow time on that agenda to think strategically. I also think they think it's going to be this big, huge thing. It doesn't have to be a big, huge thing. It can start out as simple as have you guys read Good to Great? When Jim Collins talks about the three circles, I do that exercise all the time with boards. What are you passionate about? What drives your economic and human resource engine? And what can you be best at in your world? And that can start the vision. That can start this. So it doesn't have to be this big thing. I think they think strategic planning is going to be this year long thing. It doesn't have to be. So I think taking some of that fear out of what strategic planning is and allowing time for it, sometimes to develop organically, I think is an important piece. Have you seen those strategic conversations change over the last three years, Rose? I have because who in the heck asked what if there was a pandemic? What was your resiliency plan? What was your risk management plan for a pandemic? I think it's changed the way a lot of boards are thinking and I think it will lead to more strategic thinking and planning. Absolutely. We've talked a lot over the course of our, as you've heard, 600 episodes, the advancements of technology, the advancements of integrating virtual reality. We have that topic in today's discussion. One of the things I've heard and my jaw hit the floor when I heard this, Rose, was why do we as the board need to do strategic planning? Isn't that the CEO's job? And I was like, well, that's an interesting concept or interesting thought. Well, I, you know, my big thing is that the CEO or the executive director is a partner with the board, but it comes down to how do you educate and orient your board when they first start and letting them know that their role is governing the organization and strategic planning is their charge. So I think it goes back to orienting and recruiting your board members and letting them know what their job description is if they sign on to serve. That is so, like perfectly said, because I would agree that that person that stated that did not have the best onboarding experience, the right level of expectations for serving on the board. So that could be one reason perhaps why board members resist. What about, are boards always ready for these strategic conversations? Or is there a certain like, you know? No, I do a little, I do a, when I do a board training, I'll do a little mini assessment. And if they are at the stage where they're still putting out fires, I say, if there's things that they need to do to get their house in order and how they work together, then they're not quite ready for strategic planning. It won't work, it won't take. They won't hold the strategic plan or the consulting if you will. Okay, that's really interesting because I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that. It always seems like, you know, almost the opposite. Wow, you're behind, you're behind, you gotta get this, crank this out no matter what. But I really appreciate what you've said because you're right. If you're not prepared, you're not gonna come up with probably consensus. You're not going to get realistic and achievable goals probably set. And then it's gonna be a slog that everybody hates and it just sits on a shelf. Right, right. I think also, you know, I just went through the nonprofit life cycle certification last year and I really do think that tool could be helpful too for them to realize. It's not some consultant coming in and saying you're not really ready, but you can work on these two or three areas. I do a lot of team building with boards. You know, I come from an athletic background and I think getting the board to think of themselves as a high-performing team and they're working together is necessary to fulfill and live that mission. And I think really impressing upon them that that's goal number one is to fulfill the mission and the way you guys treat each other and get along can have differences of opinion and healthy conflict. But if there's mean spirited backbiting and there's more of a need to build that board and that relationships and the trust, then I think they're ready to engage in strategic planning. That's been my experience anyway. I've got a question that just popped into my head because of how you framed this as a team. And I'm thinking of like, you know, the coaches and the assistant coach, the head coach and the assistant coaches and the specialty coaches, you know. Do you think that this has achieved more fully and has more opportunities for success when an outside coach comes in versus having somebody within that board or that leadership lead the strategic planning session? Yes, I do. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a consultant. I just, I've done it. I've been on boards myself where I say, I can't do it. I'm too much on the inside trained in this, but I have a dog in the fight. And you need somebody to come in that doesn't have a dog in the fight. I hate to say it in that way, but you know what I'm saying? That perspective that's gonna come in without any misconceptions about how things should be. It's like coaching. When you coach someone, when you coach a leader, you're holding the space for maybe, you're holding the space for things to evolve rather than trying to push it in a certain direction. If you're an insider, you have your own agenda and you need somebody to come in that doesn't have that agenda or an assumption of what the outcome might be. I so appreciate your answer and echo that. Want to say ditto to what Rose absolutely. And, you know, I hear that as one of the reasons why boards don't want to hire a facilitator or consultant, somebody to come in and lead the discussion. And, you know, one of my roles in that role to champion is all voices are heard, right? I do think Rose, you know, really what happens when there's someone from the inside that says, hey, I do this like in my job, in my day job, I could do this, it's gonna save us money, but is it truly allowing an equitable conversation? And that's where I would argue that it never does. Right, right. Absolutely. Yeah. Then let's go to that next level and you've navigated a strategic plan. And I loved right out the gate, you said, look, it can be, you know, the Collins based three circles or it can be like something that IBM would do. I mean, everything in between. But the reality is you've gotta get your board embracing this and embracing this roadmap. How do we do that? How do we keep them going forward on this and not just looking at this as, okay, the task is done, check it off next. Right. That's, you know, the old days of a strategic plan being a notebook that sits on a shelf are really gone. So I really think the idea of a roadmap, you know, think about a roadmap. Why do we have a roadmap? Even if it's on our phone now because we have to navigate where we're going, we have to know if we're there yet. You know, if you guys have kids, are we there yet? Are we there yet? And the roadmap is just a visual representation of the plan and how you're gonna get there. What happens if you have an obstacle or the road is closed? So using the analogy that everyone understands and buys into so that it is a useful tool and not something that's overwhelming, simple is better. And I think creating that roadmap that is a tool that helps you bring your strategic plan to life. And then you can have that strategic time at every board meeting to find out if you're on the right track. Are we still on the right path? What do we accomplish to allow? What do we need to change? So I think having the mile posts, how far away are we from Phoenix? How far away are we from Prescott? And being able to really have that in simple terms that the boards can understand and ask questions. Why are we off the mark in this particular goal? So I think that's what it is. It's choosing the right kind of format for your roadmap that everyone buys into and understands because it's just like your financials. If people are overwhelmed and they don't know what questions to ask then it's not a useful tool. Simple is better. I love that analogy Rose. And I have to say I've heard it before but not quite as eloquently as you just expressed it. And I can see some areas are under construction and we need to keep that in mind. And then I know the three of us and probably all of our viewers and listeners, there once was a time when we all opened up these maps like handheld maps. My dad would always get them at AAA and stuff in our glove box. But now look at the amount of construction that's happened in our globe. And so we need to update our roadmaps as these new pathways and journeys present themselves. So thank you for modernizing this roadmap and putting it into a digital component. Which takes me to our next concept is how has this digital space, this digital component, you know, like how are we integrating that Rose with our board work? And I'm hoping continue training. How have you seen this being embraced? Well, you know, I've been hired for several board trainings or board governance trainings that have all been virtual during COVID. I think that really opened people's eyes to, we can do this. Some people prefer it. I don't, I love to be face to face and see people, but it can get done. And I think that you can do all kinds of work now and in some cases more efficiently in saving organizations time and money. So I think many people are beginning to see the benefit of doing virtual training and then having that hybrid model of opportunities to get together, you know, whatever their board calendar supports once or twice a year, or this is if the groups don't live together. If you live in town, it's a little different story, but I have worked with a lot of national boards where people are coming from all over the country. So I think people have embraced it. And I think what we need to do is we need to encourage the leadership of these organizations to embrace it too, especially if you wanna attract the younger people to your board, they're gonna demand it. That's the way they're, you know, that's the way they want to work now. So if you wanna get some younger generations on your board, you might have to embrace this virtual training and virtual meetings a little bit more. I think that's what I've experienced. Rose, have you seen an increase in the usage of a board portal or some kind of a cloud-based board? You know, like, I don't know, a repository? Yeah, absolutely. I serve on the International Coachings Federations Board, the Arizona chapter. And right now we use Basecamp. And they're transitioning to a new website, a new portal, but it's amazing how instantaneous. We had a question come up of, we're gonna change our board retreat in August. What dates are you available? Everyone on the board instantly got on there and put what dates they were available. So the president has that data in her hand in an instant. So I think that it is important. And I think boards that are reticent of it, you know, they need to embrace it. They need to get training. So whatever that portal is that works for them, I think it's really an important piece of, staying connected and on top of things. Yeah, one thing I know, Julia, we've heard a lot throughout our conversations is our constituency base and our board members or volunteers alike have moved geographically over these last two years. And so they may still be, you know, serving in their term limit as a governing fiduciary agent of the board. And they need to be connected in this virtual space. And I think there's such great opportunity now, Rose, as you hit the nail in the head, it's been proven that it can be done. It still might not be everyone's preference, but it is proven that it can be done. And so I do think that, you know, as we talk about access, that allows way more, that's my formal term, way more access to the board conversations and ongoing trainings, the portal, you know, Julia, you're a huge proponent for that as well. And I have. I'm all about not only the portal, but I'm all about the labor portal and that comes in the form of having a board liaison. I think that we, when we look at those organizations small and large that have a grasp and they manage through the job description of a board liaison, things get done, expectations are met, compliance is met, it is just a much more organized and compliant governance process. And so- Yeah, that makes so much sense. It's a huge thing. I'm an enormous advocate on it. I speak a lot about it. In fact, I'm gonna be, Jared, I haven't told you this, but I'm gonna be off for a couple of days in December, speaking at a national conference about it with the credit union industry because it is such an important part. And because of this digital nature, I do think that it is one of those things that is also gonna flow through, Rose, to your point, about attracting and cultivating and retaining younger board members because they're operating their professional lives using similar tools. Right, right. And so when you don't honor their time and they're working for free, it's a really easy way to let go or lose the interest of our next-gen leadership. Yeah, absolutely. That's catastrophic. I have a curveball question. Okay. I know, we like to do this, we should've warned you, Rose, but I know you're gonna be great. So I'm channeling my athletic background as well and thinking how much does this team camaraderie take a play with strategic communications. And I will also tell you, I just recently finally saw the Top Gun movie and that team component was a big piece in building this strategic camaraderie. How, talk to me about that. Well, I think it's not only critical, I think it's foundational. You know, I referenced a lot of Patrick Lencioni's, five dysfunctions of a team sounds negative. So I see the characteristics of high-performing teams and it starts with trust and it starts with being able to have healthy conflict. There's a commitment to the vision and you are geared towards results, evaluation results. So all of those components that he has in the five dysfunctions of the team are foundational. And the beginning of establishing that trust or camaraderie is team building. And I do shapes, some people do all kinds of different assessments, but I do psychogeometrics, which gives everyone a talking point. And you'll always remember that Rose is a squiggle, the creative, yeah. And Jared's a squiggle or a circle, a people person, triangle, get to the point, no small talk. They don't want the small talk. All of those things really start out as kind of an icebreaker, but it becomes an integral part. I've done it with the national boards within the US Olympic movement. In fact, I'm going next week to do it for the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee for their development division. And I think it gives everybody not necessarily that opportunity to, first of all, be self-aware, but second of all, to increase your emotional awareness or intelligence of others. Respect them, speak to them the way they need to be spoken to, not the way I need to say it or experience it. So it really becomes a foundation of everything I do with individual clients and with boards. We do the team building and then they come up with a social contract or a way of being. How are they going to work and operate and treat one another? How do they hold each other accountable when they don't honor that social contract? So that's a big part of it. And I think that's where I can say, you get the teams that have that ability to be a team, have differences of opinion, and they're not at the putting the fire out stage, they're the ones ready for strategic planning. So. I love that answer. And again. I'm not applying. I'm not applying. And I was in the room when you did the Geometrics and you unveiled what they meant. And we were like, I knew you were a squiggle. It was great. And then around the room and you're like, we only have one triangle. We have one solo island triangle or whatever that might be for your group. And it's interesting to see that. And so again, with my athletic background, your athletic presence as well, Rose, and just really thinking of how the team takes a play and roots into these strategic conversations. And I'm imagining going to something like base camp, I'm on Slack with another client, meeting the board members where they are, allowing them to get to know one another outside of the board table or this virtual board table. I think it's a huge, as you said, fundamental or foundational role. Well, and I think the thing is the power behind doing, like the shapes or any of those assessments. And this was back to Julia's question earlier, why are they reticent to do strategic planning? You might have a board that doesn't have any squiggles on it, that you don't have the big picture thinkers. So they're wanting to get down to the details and get into the operation and the tactics before they have that vision part of it. So what are we missing? Well, we don't need to go and necessarily recruit squiggles or change you out, you're off the team. We need to think squiggle, we need to think big picture and learn to flex that muscle if that's a missing piece on your board. So I think it also helps them identify what are our strengths, what are our areas that we need to shore up in order to be more strategic. So plays into that too. Well, I also found in my board service over time, you will have board members that think in this manner because on their for-profit corporate side, this is an engagement piece that they live and breathe within their jobs. And then you have others that have been like, oh yeah, I'm not at that level. The strategic plan comes down to me and I have to respond to it, but I've never been a part or I've never been at the table when it was created. I mean, and when it seems to me that there's a lot of frustration with that. Well, that's an important thing too. And I think that goes back to board training, honestly, because strategic plan should remain the same no matter who's sitting around the table, no matter who the executive director is. And then you know, hey, I'm on this team now and this is our game plan. I'm not changing it. I'm not getting on the board to change it. So I think that goes back to recruiting and really having a great onboarding process that says here's our strategic plan where this is 2022 and this is what we're gonna accomplish for the next year. And this is your role. Right, and I love that. It seems to me that when we don't start with that, that's where we open ourselves up to so many disappointments. We can't meet expectations. And Jared and I have talked about this a lot. You know, our board members wanna do well and they wanna do well for their community. But if they lose their way or it doesn't seem like it's working, it's very easy to disengage. Yes, yeah. It's very easy to disengage. I was going to add, I was just recently talking to a client of mine and I said, there are three things that I personally ask when I'm given the opportunity to join a board. The DNO certificate, Directors and Officers Insurance Certificate, they're board of expectations. Like, what are you expecting of me when I serve on the board? And the third is that strategic plan. What is your current roadmap? And how might I play a successful role in this journey together? And so this strategic conversation, this is a critical piece to that onboarding. So thank you for driving that home. Yes, absolutely. You know, you have been marvelous to have with us. Of course, it's always fun and we don't get this a lot, but it's been great to have a guest on that Jared's been working with and has been on the other side of the table with and can speak to some of these trainings and these attitudes that you bring to our nonprofit sector. Rose Snyder, coach and consultant. Check her out at rosenyderconsulting.com. What an amazing approach that you have that you can bring to our nonprofit sector. And I'm so delighted that you shared it with us today and our viewers and listeners of the nonprofit show. It's been really great to have you with us for this limited time. And it has blown by, as I mentioned to you in the green room chatter, it's gonna go by fast. We're gonna have to walk fast. And I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared Ransom, we've been delighted to have you. And we wanna make sure that we give our gratitude and our thanks to all of our presenting sponsors who have been with us many from the very beginning. And they include Bloomerang, American nonprofit academy, your part time controller, nonprofit nerd, fundraising academy, Steffen Boutique and nonprofit thought leader. These are the folks that join with us each and every day to put on another episode of the nonprofit show. Jared, wonderful to see you again, my friend. We've been separated a little bit, but we're back together. And so happy belated birthday. Thank you. Rose, thank you so much. Thank you both, I really enjoyed it. What was a lot of fun. As we like to end every episode, we remind ourselves and we remind our viewers and all of you and the nonprofit sector to stay well, so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow everyone.