 Was there any public comment for items not on the agenda? Hmm, I don't know if I see a Steve. I just wanted to mention about road conditions, and I don't know if I should say it now, or under road commissioner updates. Well, I don't know if Alfred's coming. Alfred's not coming. I did. Well, let's say it now. OK. I received a complaint about the road conditions, you know, our first floor of the year this weekend. And Lightning Ridge, I know the elevation at my house is 1,340 feet, which is much different than the elevation at Route 14. And so even as far as leaving at 6 AM this morning, the road was still pretty icy. It wasn't sanded at all. I left my house 7 AM on Saturday to go to work. And Lightning Ridge wasn't sanded. There was no sand. I could see in the callous roads. But as soon as I got to Edmont Village, Eastmont Piliar came down Center Road. They kept their sander on through Edmont Village and went up Paget Road to the county road. And that's the way I go to work, you know, in road conditions like this. So soon as I got to Edmont, they had already sanded. So, you know, I mean, I think that the road conditions warranted sanding. And I don't know why it wasn't sanded. And I did get complaints. John Winston called me twice about it. And he said he leaves for work at 6 AM. And I know my husband had to put four-wheel drive on, lock out his hubs at the bottom of Lightning Ridge, just past the school, because he couldn't make it up. We call it Doug Lilly's Hill. He couldn't make it up. And so, you know, they might, I don't know what they based their thing on about when to go out or why. I don't know if they didn't do it because it was the weekend. But conditions are conditions. And people, you know, I work at a hospital that doesn't close. And, you know, I know John leaves for work at 6 AM. So, you know, they need to be on it. So yeah, I didn't notice if they had did any road maintenance on this. They had been sanded. Yeah. So anyway, so that's my public comment. It was greasy. Yeah. That said, I did have bald summer tires. And I navigated it, OK, carefully. So I spun a little bit, but I didn't try to go up Doug Lilly's Hill. I would not have made it up that hill. Yeah, Greg tried. And he couldn't hand it back down and lock out his hubs. And he had the six-wheeler dump truck. OK, thank you. So noted. Thanks. That hill's crazy. I don't know, it doesn't really help. Yeah, it's the hill before you get to his farm. It's on the barn. Yeah, I know that. It's just a little, you're doing all right. You're like, I'm going to make it. And then it bends and it goes up. There's one like that on Patrick's Hill. I mean, there's probably a sand hill on the opposite side. But they're good. I didn't realize it was such a bad hill. Yeah, it's pretty bad. OK, additional changes to the agenda. And you saw Alfred and he said he wasn't coming. So I asked him, I said, he was going to pick up because that's where they had him down the road and before the storm. So I could come to bed tonight. And he said, I didn't see anything on the agenda for me to be there, so I guess not. Yeah, and I sent Alfred and Toby an email and said, do you have anything for the agenda? Yeah. Didn't get a reply back from Alfred. And Toby's reply was, I'm out of town. So there you go. All right, I told Sandra and Judy they didn't need to come tonight. I don't think there's anything as far as updates on the town hall. I'm still working on the septic issue. That's presenting on some challenges. So we're having a town hall committee meeting this Wednesday. So maybe we'll get some more information and do another. It's still at 8 AM. Yeah. It's kind of been in a holding pattern in the past couple of weeks because waiting for there to be significant activity to justify coming back together. So with the storm and everything, you guys are still meeting tomorrow? Wednesday. Oh, Wednesday. Yeah. Right. Well, I assume so. Well, that would be clear on Wednesday. Yeah, and I also want to get an update on when Green Line might start. Right, so then we have the Paris to finish the concrete work. Really? Not done yet? At 46, I don't think there's any update on that right now. There is a school board meeting on the Thursday, that there's a meeting at the elementary school at 6.30 or something. Barry Elks Lodge, they said they had a change at 8.30 AM. No, I'm talking about night. Oh, you're talking about the Calis elementary school. Right. Isn't that at 6.30 or 7? Yeah, I have problems at 6.30. Yeah, at the school. And the state board of education is having the big vote this Thursday. They're commencing the meeting at 8.30 in the morning. That's at Barry Elks. At the Barry Elks Lodge. Is this where they're going to vote on? Force merging, force merging everybody. Everybody, they preliminarily said they were going to. I don't see a change. So it's on the main floor, meeting room, 10 Jefferson Street, Barry Vermont to be there. OK. Any CVRPC updates? Really, the CWAC, Quack and Clean Water Advisory Committee meant less Thursdays and Thursdays there. We're just dubbing around. And though we commented on a strong commentary on the UNISC, the plan for. Is that the UNISC River Tactical Basin Plan? That's it. That's it. OK. Well, I don't know if they're going to incorporate our comments and concerns with the draft plan or not. What were the concerns? It's very narrow in terms of what they review for impacts to the drainages and to the lake that it ultimately feeds into. They look at phosphorus. And then the nutrient that's the limiting factor of plant growth. So if you have too much in the system, the algae and bacteria goes wild. So that's what they're trying to manage for. But there's so many other things that drain into that lake. And they're not looking at that. So our committee, a friend by my urging me, is going to be just pressing them to also look at, but not from pesticides. It was a big issue 10 years ago, pesticide drainage. And all of a sudden, vaporized. I thought it was still part of the issues, no. A&R was all about it. They weren't looking back before they were looking at fighter and talking about pesticides. And they had these programs that manage your lawns and try to avoid using pesticides. And all of a sudden, it's not part of the conversation, the main conversation. So it doesn't make sense if you have someone out there sampling and you might have to sample for all the potential larger impacts. So that's what we're pressing for. When are they going to decide? When are they going to decide? Through the public comment period. When is the public comment period end? I don't know. Interesting. Yeah, I thought it was a bigger picture of what they were looking at. They look like a good sediment in nutrient phosphorous. Wow. Yeah. Roj, you want to start passing the order, right? Sure. I'll pass it. I'll take it to you. Well played, Ro. All right. We're a little bit, I don't think anybody else will show up to this normal girl thing. You're not expecting anybody else, are you, Steve? No. No. OK, everybody got the memo from Steve. Thank you. Get this done and over with so you guys can go out and play. So Steve, how long have the mountain chambers been in business? We had our first organizational meeting in December 1969. Wow. And we organized in January of 1970. So 48 years. That's correct. You had 48 years to tame the mountain. How's that going? We haven't got it done yet. We work on it every year. Taming the mountain. It's a wild set of mountains out there. Yeah. So I think everybody's had a chance to look at your memo. And I guess my question is, is it changed it off in last year? Yeah. Just quickly, a couple of highlights on it. There's eight sections of roads within the town of Calis. Only the first two involve what we call quarter trails, which are the main trail systems that are mapped on the state vast map. The others are just very local pieces of road that were for access only. Over the years, we've had snowmobiles who weren't right on the main trails. And in order to get there, they might have to ride down the side of the road. And that's what numbers three through the year. And some of those I need to be in years now. And I hesitated. I almost dropped some of them. But until I just confirm that another year, you might see some of those coming. But we haven't changed this list really. A number of two or three of them here in the middle are really involved. Our attempt to try to keep access to the store in East Calis Village available. How are we going to do it when they don't sell gas anymore? They don't sell gas anymore, I guess. But we don't even have a trail into there now. We never really did have a trail in. It was kind of a private up through the old ball grounds, Dwinell's property. But it was permission for it. And we tried to work with the store to keep it available. But there's a terrible washout in it down there now. And there's just no money to fix it. Yeah, there's a project. I understand there is. Yes. If that was done, if something was done to that washout there, then we could, we could, we have a bridge over all, we built two years ago down across from Dave Jeffery's house. That's all in good shape. And the trail could be utilized, but not for that washout up there. Yeah, because I was looking to see, because what do you know my son has that bridge? I didn't see that on here. Which one of them? He wouldn't be on there. He wouldn't be on this. No, these are only public highways. That cars move on, so to speak. And to legally ride a snowmobile on them, you have to have permission from the local government. And to cross, to use driveways. So that's all between the club and the private owners as it is there. Yeah. And, but if we were going to ride out of Pack Hill Road, for instance, we'd have to have permission from you folks to do that. How many members does Mountain Chambers have? We have club members, I think we had 106 last year. That's quite a few. Yes. 93 of them were actual snowmobiles. We have 10 or a dozen club members every year that are non-snowmobiles. Cross country ski years, just generally interested people who choose to join the club, because they use the trails and want to contribute. That's fine. Good. That's like $10. Yeah, a bargain price. Yeah. I might add, we're kind of proud of that. Last year, our club was awarded the Best Groomed Trails in the State of Vermont by the Vermont Association of Snow Travellers. We received recognition for that at the annual meeting which was held in Sheldon in September. The Best Groomed Trails in the whole State? Yes. And only one given out a year. Wow. That's impressive. Well, we hung to it last year. We groomed and some other clubs didn't bother to groom. It was a terrible winner. But we've got a pretty good volunteers, groomer operators. We have four basically, you can call it five, guys that run the groomer and it's a six or an eight hour run and they groom all of our trails twice a week. Wow. Conditions permitting. And every trip is six to eight hours. We maintain 45 miles of trails in Calis and Woodbury, but not too many of them are in Woodbury. Most aren't in Calis. Yeah. And we groom them, try to go over and back, two passes, twice a week. That's a lot of time. Yeah, it is. That is a lot of volunteer. How much fuel do you use in the season? Several hundred gallons. Yeah. Wow. We have fuel tanks in two locations. And we maintain those. And how many years do you get out of that? Well, I hope a good many. We just bought a new groomer. It's a piece. It's a beauty. Yeah, it is. Have you been in it? You? I saw Bill Davis. Yeah. Bill is one of our operators. Yeah. And yes, we're on a third year with that new groomer. Thanks to having a couple of trade in and help from Vasht and money that we save because it's $165,000 a piece of equipment. How much? $165,000. Beautiful. So. That's what our goal was. I guess it worked. Yeah. Good for you. Any other highlights? No, I would be happy to attempt to answer any questions. Anybody has any? We're constantly dealing with property owners, of course. And one of the, this past year was a big year for us. And one of them is still not resolved at this point because they've been having a high time connecting with the new owner. And that's David Nash that bought Stanley Morris' property. We crossed the county road at that point. Yeah. And I'm hoping the he'll allow us, obviously, definitely, but at least this one until we find an alternative around it. But we had a couple other farms, Wayne, Betty, Morris' property was changed hands. George Peterson's, which was the farm that Mitch Brown was running on, he still, that changed hands. It did. Yeah. And every time that happens, there's such a big, piece of property is that it's a challenge. Yeah. So I get to put the four houses in on the stands. That's the rule. If we could get through this window, then I think we can, we may be able to find a way around it. Some of the other property owners will cooperate. Yeah. They don't. We're done there. And that's one of our main connectors because we have a. Is that an oyster? We have an intersection post out in the back, which is on Mack and Cindy. Got the Morris' property. And that's where the Worcester trail turns up. That goes down into the Worcester and through Worcester and over the mountain range and into, you know, the flats in Waterbury. Well, that's a pretty important. It's an important trail. Yeah. All right. There's any, no further questions. I'll make a motion to approve the. Mountain team was request for a cloud highway use by the snow fields. For the 2018-19 season. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed hearing none, be good to go. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your support. Sure. Next. This little background. Cliff and I met with Andy Felice last week on Friday. Okay. Over there? Yeah. Over there. And I had, I found, and you'll see it on the screen, some old documents. And one of them is from, like, 2016. Yeah. Seven teams. Anyways, there's some varying lists here. And I actually found a gospel hollow warden job description from 2011. So we met with Andy. And he's already thinking and got ideas. And he's already thinking and got ideas. And he's already thinking and got ideas. So we met with Andy. And he's already thinking and got ideas. So we just wanted to, we thought we shouldn't meet with the board. We currently pay $50 a month. And that's kind of like, Andy, can you come change the light bulbs? The smoke alarms beeping, you know, kind of just minor things like that. So I have a question. How many carpenters does it take to change a light bulb? I don't know, Andy. You know the answer to that? I don't have a good joke. I'm not armed with a joke. Why don't you come up and come and join us? I can tell you how many union carpenters it takes. See that? She's hooked up with him before the meeting. 16. You got a problem with that? And then how long does it take? Well, it depends if there's a coffee break in between. Right. Okay. So we talked to Andy about some additional duties, which means additional time. And some of it will be, won't happen because right now the town hall isn't in operation. So right now it would just be the town office. And you can see that there are some additional duties. Andy went and looked outside at the roof. I still haven't found that quote. I asked the stock. The options quote? The options quote. $5,000 or a quote. But we were interested in seeing it because we would like to see their diagnosis of the issue and what the proposed fix is. And also we wanted to know who did the original roof. I don't have the answer to that either. Both of them. Both of them? He did? Yeah, I don't know who did it. That's my recollection. I don't know. I didn't remember that. Oh, okay. I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure. Do you like to clean anything else around it? It's scuzzy here. So anyways, we just wanted to start. We haven't finalized anything yet. We asked Andy how much he charges. We don't know if it's better to do it by the hour, whether it's better to do a little bit more of a stipend and then see what things might be beyond the scope of what would just be additional routine stuff like the shoveling around the fuel tanks and removing snow from the generator and getting snow off the back porch. That seems like for the winter anyways, that's going to be kind of routine stuff that you're going to have to come and check and be on top of it. Yeah. And we asked Andy about doing a spreadsheet that would be like routine summer stuff, routine winter stuff, and then additional projects, which would be kind of overseeing someone fixing the roof, building a cover over the generator. What? I'm going to separate you. It's a joke. We're not telling you. We'll get to that page up later. Okay. The radon system that Andy noticed wasn't turned on, turned on. So when I sent John McCullen email, I don't know if... After all that on radon? How did it get turned on? It was one of the few weeks ago. I don't know. We were thinking that maybe it was just the noise because it makes, you know, it's a haunting noise. It just bothers them. They were here today checking it. They were? The generator or the radon? Both. Oh, they do both? Somebody was doing both today. And somebody was doing something. So we should get a copy of those reports. Do you have a license plate? No, I have two trucks and then I left. Judy knows, Judy knows. Okay. Right now $50 per which? Per month. Period. Right. But it hasn't involved a lot of these other dues. It's been the one-offs. Right. Less maintenance and more just... Change the light bulbs. Yeah. You know, kind of... Fire alarms, BP, and so many things. Things that are actually need to be addressed right now. Yeah. Right. And he comes over and does it. Right. But some of these other things are more... Keep it on top of it. Like especially this winter. With things. So, did you have any more thoughts about this? Have you had a meeting? Not necessarily, no. I'm still getting my head around that. I haven't had time to really do that spreadsheet. You want me to do yet? Yeah, no, I didn't expect you would. I'll find you there. Yeah. I mean, I think once I do that, I'll get my own head around what this entails. Right. Like for instance, there's a monthly thing of checking the water filter. Right. We talked about that when Jonathan was here, but then it was probably right before he left. Yeah. So anyway, some of these things, they just kind of... They haven't gotten... Some of the things Jonathan had captured. Yeah. Did we change out the filter? I think you just check it. I'm not sure. It's really a check thing because typically... It's clear water filtration. It may take three months. You're not doing laundry here. Right. Water. Yeah. So that's... Andy and I talked about that. Well, gee, how often would you have to do it here? Once a year? Once every six months? It's really a visual thing that you can see when they're coming here. Yeah. Yeah. And then we have to... I think we have the fire protect people come twice a year to check the fire extinguishers. Yeah. So it's just, you know, it's kind of keeping track of all that so that the office staff doesn't have to try to deal with all that stuff, plus everything else. And also so that it's clearly distinguished from the operations... Correct. ...canager functions, right? Correct. So we might move in the direction of actually capturing all these miscellaneous lists and where Andy wants to add to a job description. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So we're kind of in the planning stages, talking stages, but we didn't want it to get too far without, you know, having the whole board weigh in on it. But it's something we've talked about on and off, and I know the office staff would really appreciate not having to have some, you know, that on their radar. Yeah. Do you have a list of the people that come and the fire guys you just mentioned, those guys that were young guys that were here today that... No, you're probably working together. Yeah. We'll be meeting with the staff, I think, on Wednesday, so we can ask them about a list and then show you where the files are. The generator people. Yeah, that's Brookfield. Brookfield. Yeah. So something like the generator cover that we've talked about actually, you know, Andy's a carpenter, so I think they had a concern about how enclosed or how high the roof was because of the exhaust. So Andy would have to check with them and then, you know, he could build that and that's where I would see maybe he charges additional amount per hour for a project like that. He just figures out what it would cost to do it. That's a special project, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then we would also imagine this would evolve once Town Hall comes back on. Right. Yeah, then there'll be a whole other list of maintenance terms because the Town Hall will be usable downstairs year-round when we get it back up and running. So that, you know, would be a different set of duty, you know. Some of them would be the same, but some additional. Sure. And after we find the roof quote, we're still okay with Town Hall's guys trying to get out here this fall? Winner slash winner? Yeah, tomorrow? Yeah. Tomorrow? Tomorrow? Yeah. Well, it would be ideal to get it done if they can. Yeah. And you, as you pointed out, you saw where you can see the damage is getting more and more the ice jam thing. Yeah. You know all about that. Oh, I do. Throw some tarps on it. Yeah. Seriously, you may as well if it's leaking. I want to go up there and see if it's getting in inside because if it is, you should probably do something. Because I just feel like it's highly unlikely that you're going to find a roofing company at this point. Or will. So what would you do as a temporary fix? Tarps? Something like that. Yeah. Hard to assess. Tarps. Yeah. The kind of ceiling in there with the problem is there's one section of the seams where ice has gotten in underneath the metal and expanded and actually pulled it up. So that's going to be hard to create a patch for. Ice and water shield. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Melt it on. I think that's it. Then it's just going to, then those pans are going to be no good because you're not going to get it off. Yeah. You know. But won't you have to re-place them? I think so. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. That's probably easiest. Well, I know Hutchins is the one who gave the quote, but I emailed the staff Friday or Saturday. Oh, the staff. Yeah. The staff to see if they could dig out the quote because I looked when we were here on Friday. I looked through everything I could think of in the file cabinet to find it. Well, you could call that over. Yeah. Do you want to take on calling him or do you want to? Sure. Okay. Yeah. All right. So anyway, I said this is kind of where we're at. We're still trying to work out some of the details, the money piece because we haven't budgeted. Right. You know, a lot of money for the rest of this year for more maintenance, but it needs to get done. There's no point in having these nice buildings if we don't take care of them. So that, so we're going to meet with Andy again, right? Yeah. Well, I think we're going to have to get an idea of. I mean, I want to get the storms and stuff like that. Right. I mean, I could start doing some of this stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I guess we need some feedback from you about like some of these things are on the list that are going to be kind of ongoing weekly or whatever. So what you think would be their stipend per month? Yeah, sure. So we're going to leave that. Not that we may do. I have no idea. Me neither. Do you have anything like allocated for something like that? Not a lot. I'm not sure how much work it's going to be. It's highly likely it's going to be the most unworked thing ever. The most what? I'm just treating it as a service to the town at this point. So I'm not interested in making. It's not going to be worth it for me to get paid like hourly to do a lot of this stuff. No, no, no. That's what I'm thinking. Right now we're paying 50. Yeah. Maybe the thing to do is for you to keep track of time. Yeah. And then we can see. Yeah, that's a good idea. And then kind of go from there because we don't really have any idea. We've never had this person. Yeah. So if you look at the list, the standard work list and then anything off that list would be available outside of the whatever the stipend is. Because we have the reserve fund reserve fund that like the roof piece would come out of that. That roof is not going to be $5,000 because the metal has gone up. So that means it has thought to bid then? Well, we're supposed to if it's anything over $5,000. We have a policy. Yeah. I mean this is repairs and maintenance. There is a possibility, Andy had brought this up, that we may be able to arrange to have the panels cut. Oh, that's right. Hutchings possibly could do that for us but not actually install them. Andy knows that they've done that in other circumstances before. So we might plan some creative ways to handle it. Right. So we pay with the materials and paper, the labor separate. Oh, wow. Yeah, that might work. You got that kind of time in your schedule? To call Hutchings? No, no, they'll make the panels, they'll form them and then you have time to install the roof. Yeah. But wouldn't that solution assume that there's no damage underneath the panels? Well, that's what we don't know. Yeah, right, right, right. So that only works if Andy comes back and says. We may not be able to do it, you know, all this season as you mentioned but we got to do something I think temporarily if you don't. You talk to Hutchings and they say, Well, they'll form stuff all winter, I know that. They will. And then maybe you say we can't and we pay for that and then come spring, you know, then you install it. But in the meantime, we got to have some kind of temporary fix if you said whatever that stuff's called. Yeah. I think it's going to be hard to get Ernie. Excuse me, I don't know. He'll be on the town hall. He'll be on the town hall. How much? I mean, if you were just going to patch it just to get us through the season, how much? I mean, I have no idea how much time something like that would take. I think a couple of hours or something. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This summer would be really quick. It would be harder. Yeah. So could you call Hutchings and then email me? Sure. And then I can. Yeah. It has to go on. I think, I forgot your name. Sharon. Sharon said is correct in that. It's probably going to take, even if you got those guys lined up, there's probably going to be some damage that it needs to get dealt with. Well, you mentioned that there might be damage on that on Friday. Yeah. Something about the insulation and all that. But at least get it patched so it doesn't do anything more. Yes. Yeah. I think that's probably the best move to get through this winter. Right. Is there only leaks when ice builds up or is it leaking continuous? I think it's only in the winter when the ice builds up and it'll melt. Of course, that would lift it up. If you got a driving rain, I'd be surprised if water's not getting in. All right. So maybe we don't even bother with Hutchings this year. I'll call them. At least see if we can get a copy of the other quote. Yeah. And they might even be able to say, hey, yeah, we'll look at it and give you an updated copy. Yeah. Right. They might even save the quotes. I mean, it was just last year, it was 2017. Right. Well, that's what we're hoping that they did. They're probably going to charge more on a metal one. Yeah. I'm also going to have you talk to Alan Boregner as well for a couple of reasons. If he did the original roof, he had an idea of who it seemed and everything. And then he may just want to do it, you know, for that race. Yeah. Okay. Well, we need you to take that by the reins. Yeah. And I might have said we want to treat you fairly, but we don't really know what that is. Yeah. To help us figure it out. Well, thank you in advance though for saying that, you know, you really want to contribute to the town. We really appreciate that. Yeah. It's kind of like what we do. Yeah. Although we don't agree. But we don't go on roofs. No. You do more than that. All right. Well, thanks, Andy. Yeah, just keep us updated. We'll check in with you. Thank your family for letting us have you. And just so you know, we usually meet with the office staff on Wednesday mornings around nine. Okay. Office staff around nine? Right. So if you have something that questions or whatever. Wait, what? Are we talking about? We usually meet with the office staff every Wednesday morning around nine. So if you ever have to stop in and want to ask questions or look at files or whatever that's a good time to do it. Okay. And thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Swim committee. Are you being committee or? Yeah. Okay. You want to sit here? All right. Thanks for coming, ladies. It was already here. So yeah, that worked out. So we're just asking everybody for committee's commissions to come in and give us an earful. Yeah, we're here with our swim program report, which each year we have prepared to go in the handbook that everyone gets for town meeting. So it's the same sort of thing that you would have seen in the past with updated information from the last year. The past summer, there were 72 kids who participated, but a lot of them came back multiple times. That number is down a little. It does vary year to year, but there are a lot of families that signed up for rather than being in one session. They signed their kids up for a whole bunch. So although it was 72 individual children, there were a lot more like slots than that Ruby taught. It was a pretty great deal. Kids in Calis pay $12 to come for a week's worth of lessons. A lot of kids do come from out of town. Anyone who's had kids in it or neighbors in it, it's a very sweet program. Ruby is awesome and did a fabulous job the last two years. Right. And she- Love the kids too. Yeah. She literally throws stones in the house. It's a pretty big job to ask a teenager to do also because we ask parents to stay. So she has a line of parents with kids who are waiting. She's got all the kids that are like bursting at the seams of excitement for their lesson. All the parents were observing what's happening. And then community members are coming down. She's turning them away because sometimes you can't swim because she's got a handful. So I think it's wonderful. We're in a great room. Just a lot of her. Yeah. A lot of responsibility. Yeah. So do they issue- you said they're a right cross instruction method? Do they get the little right cross cards and they go through the different levels? Yeah, that's exactly how she does it. I'm not sure how much- if she issues the cards themselves, but she uses that. So she's certified instructor? She is. Yeah, we only can hire certified water safety instructors. How long have you gone through? 18. 18? Yeah. And they can't get that certification until they're 16. So we can't hire any younger existing for that one. So Ruby decided when someone decides they might want to take this job, we interviewed candidates for the position you hear before this past summer. And that's a pretty big commitment on their part to decide that they want to go through with that. She had to go to Williston for a few days. There was a few days of training for her. So they come out of it. She's not wondering what to do. She really hit the ground running her first year and knew what she was doing. And she's doing a wide range of ages. She's got teeny tiny kids in the water with their parents. And she's got older kids that she's teaching her to dive. It's cool. And CPR. She has to be a water safety instructor. And CPR instructor as well. Which is her? Yep. It sounds like an everybody wins situation. It really is. And there's a lot of parents who are getting to know each other there. And of course children learning not to drown is like really great in our area. Because we have so much water. And so to see kids who come back every year are getting really better. They're learning there. Yeah, I agree. Well, and that's something that people still talk about from when they were kids. Yes. I hear that too. You know, which is really great. We have in the last two years started contact and counseling and doing the scholarships just to just really help kids. You know, we had noticed some changes and trends over who's showing up. Just with more two parent families where both people are working. We're tended to get like a different mix of kids in the past. But part of that means that we just want to really make sure that kids who might not otherwise know about it or really be connected into the opportunity of doing it. So last year we had two kids. Scholarships in this year. Six kids. You said you're getting more kids with two parents working or fewer? We, because two parents are working, we're getting like I would say less of just the Calis elementary school population has the availability to show up five days a week. Right. In the summer. Right. So we've had to be more active in soliciting people to show up from some of the private schools around the neighboring towns. I see. I see. I see. So you're... What about the kids from Worcester and Worcester? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The kids from Berry City. Wow. Do we? Yeah. Yeah. So what's the condition of the beach swim area? Is it still pretty good? It's not bad. I think it was... We need a follow-up order. It's all right. We did that big tree clearing project around 2011. Yeah. 2010, 2011. Yes. And then about three years ago Ginger Clamor organized some kind of work to just shore up some of the runoff that had happened. Mm-hmm. So we, in a couple different spots there. And now there is this Curse Pond Association. Mm-hmm. We haven't been in close contact with them about... So far they haven't done a lot of stuff that I don't... Right. And they're focusing on ramps and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. One of the nice things about the swim program is that there's so many families that are there for a good chunk of the day. Like they might come perhaps an hour less in. But a lot of people might be there for four or five hours and they're there every day for a week or sometimes two weeks. So it's so many parents who are helping to keep things clean, keeping them, what's happening there. They'll be in no up about balloons or... So I feel like the swim program, because we do offer the portapotty and we keep an eye on that. We all keep an eye on that all summer. We're doing the water testing. And we're just generally... The trash? The trash. Just some assistance. Take care of the trash every day. Yeah. So there's a lot of eyes on what's happening there for a good portion of the day. That's good. Yeah. That's wonderful. One of the pieces that we do have responsibility for that is part of our appropriation request is the docks. There's a floating dock that's called the raft. And then there's the dock that is what you walk on to be able to jump off of. And those are also used for some lessons. It's super-duper rocky when you walk in right there. It can be quite painful. And so Ruby uses the dock in a number of ways. You mean it's movable? Well, it's... It shouldn't be. Right. It shouldn't be, but it is. Depending on the water levels. The swim committee organizes it being put out at the beginning of the season and being removed at the end of the season. Both the raft and the docks. But those are made of wood and they have approximately... We're planning for replacement of each of them on an alternating schedule approximately every time to 15 years. And so part of our appropriation, and you'll see that we have a little over $4,000 saved. There's $4,200 in our available funds right now. And the dock estimate is between $3,000 and $5,000 for replacement depending on what materials you use, et cetera. So I was a little confused. Okay, so you have expenses. They came with $35,67. Yes. So you have $71.25 left. The profit we made this year. And then the avail, but you still have an additional $42? Yes. And we plan to use that entire amount of available funds to buy the dock will need to be replaced after this coming summer. So it'll be able to be used this in summer of 2019. But then it has to be replaced. The raft was replaced in... 2013. And the raft is fine. So we have them on alternating schedule. So in the past, our budgeted amount to ask from the select board was $2,700. Last year we did not come to you with a request and the appropriation was reduced to $2,000. So that difference of $700 is how we are saving for replacement on that alternating schedule and how it's been done in the past. In addition to if there's ever any tree issues, maintenance of that area in general. And we have offered a wet suit in the past to our lifeguards. They can become absolutely freezing. Right. It can be brutal. Just so you know, everybody got a cut pretty much last year from what they asked for. Because we're always trying to... We're always trying to save money for taxpayers. But so you're asking us to go back to the $2,700. That's another question. And you guys might remember that last time when we had to purchase the raft, we kind of came to it. We didn't have the money. You guys lent it to us. We did fundraising and you were like, hey, can you kind of do some more long-range planning around your site? Right. And we did, at that time, we doubled the swim lesson fees and we increased it even more for the out-of-town people. They were very, very low then and they continued to be low. But we did try to... We didn't want to make it so people couldn't... Yeah. So they're kids. We wanted to feel really accessible. But anyway, so we're coming in that spirit of just trying to... So you're okay. So it's no surprise for you ever in terms of we have a $5,000 dock that's not usable. We don't want to be in a position where we're asking for a dock out of the blue. Oh, right, right. No, you're doing things the right way. Planning, saving. Capital reserve. Right. Okay, so I'm just going to write $2,700 in here. That's your request for this fiscal year 20. Yeah. Because right now we're still on FY 19. When do you guys start? It's a weird thing. We start the last week in June, so we cross the fiscal year. The line. Yeah. Mm-hmm. We have paid for almost all of our expenses for the fiscal year that we're in. Yeah, I was looking at that from... Yeah, the only thing that will be in it, there's like a few dollars in insurance that Sandra said stiller is going to be in this year. And then our water testing, I pay for it in May because you have to pay for it in order to get your bottles to sample. So I pay $100,000 in May, so it will come out of this fiscal year. Right. Yeah, because I saw something, an email where she was asking, or you were asking about the water testing part of it. Yeah, and we located that, because it was actually finding the amount that was... Everything is spent over the course of the summer, from our perspective, but we do cross the two fiscal years. Well, with the new budget system that Katie's been hearing about at Nausium, right, we should be able to better track those kinds of expenses instead of just one amount. And then you have an endowment. Mm-hmm. Yep. There's a $5,000 endowment that has some pretty interesting information in the file in the town office, where it was originally a gift to the Kurtzpann Swim Committee, but then that land was donated to the Swim Committee, which then they thought it would be better if it went through the Land Trust, and then the Land Trust decided the town should hold it, because it didn't make sense for the Swim Committee to be holding this money. The $5,000 endowment has restrictions on it. We can't utilize it. We're supposed to use the interest. Yeah, any interest made on it goes to the Swim Committee, but we are not supposed to ever use the $5,000. Is there any interest to use? It's in the CDs. You know that they have to use some of the interest for a tree-cutting project. Right, and that's actually on my list. I haven't spoken with Sandra about understanding. I haven't seen that come across in the last few years. Do you know if there's an amount of interest that we see? Yeah, no, I don't think we see it. We haven't seen it in the last two years. Yeah, I think we did. I mean, I remember around 2011, we kind of dug it out. I actually thought it was for the raft, not the tree-cutting, but either putting it away or something like that. Is it in the Land Trust and the trustee and public funds? No, I don't control that. I guess not. Apparently, it's under the Land Trust's control right now. Vermont Land Trust? No, I think it's the CD boards in the town. Oh, okay. So then it must be Rod Buck and those guys. It's called the Vanguard Fund. Oh, Vanguard. That sounds good. Yes, you might check in with Rod Buck. Mm-hmm. And see. I would say it would be weird to me if it was the Vermont Land Trust. I wouldn't think they even want to do that. So when you're in the financial summary, that $5,000 is not included. That's correct. Okay. I didn't type it in there because it was really clear that we can't use it. Yeah. Just wanted to... Yeah. Because then I was like... You're right, it's not written on there. ...used about why it's only $4,208. Mm-hmm. Yeah, unrelated. Okay. Any further questions or members? I had a question. I mentioned, I think it was the last time around when you had to replace either the RAP or the DOC. You did some... You weren't setting funds aside. And so you did some fundraising efforts. Mm-hmm. Which yielded some results, but then also you had to come to town and ask for some additional money by the loan. Anyway, raise the class fees at the time. And you raised the fees. So the fundraising efforts you did, how successful were they? Or is this something you could do on a regular basis to assist? So what we did was a raft in the Maple Corner Fourth of July parade. And we got people to donate some money. And we could try that again. That parade has really diminished. I think it's pretty small now. Mm-hmm. So it's not out of the question, but that particular source, I doubt we would get what we got last time. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I was just curious. Yeah, no, second question. Yeah, I don't know if there's other fundraising things that you could do. We've also talked about in the DOC construction making that a community event that we would save money on. Funds for building. Right. To save their families that would be willing to help. You had mentioned, and that's why I was asking a question, because you had mentioned that there are people with fond memories. Mm-hmm. That would be there. There is. You hear people talk about when they were moving at Curtis Pond. The emotional buy-in that you could tap into. Mm-hmm. Honestly, I feel like that's what happens every year at Tom meeting with, when it was an article. Mm-hmm. In my experience, it was always people very positive. Nobody, everybody excited to support it in that way. Right. No questions about. I mean, in the big picture of things, this is a small amount of money, but when you start to add it all up, that's when we get our little pencils out. Yeah. Is there any way that, have you thought at all about somehow the comedy, the kids whose parent, do you have both parents working? Like what would be the wraparound that would allow those cow's kids to be getting some lessons? Yeah, you'd have to have transportation, and then that runs into the district. The hardest transportation. Last year we ran a special session for that. That's amazing. There was a lot of excitement, but it was not well attended. We did one, so rather than having like five days a week, we did one Saturday. Okay. But after school hours are tricky, because you could sometimes have 40 people swimming at that time of day, and it's a hard time of day to turn the public around, to say, you know, we've got a group of kids. Right. So that, we're trying to put the hours that people are, that we're doing the swimming outside of when people are pretty grumpy about asking them to be out of, if people don't want to go swim on the fishing side. Yeah, it's a tricky balance. I think we'd all be interested in other ways, because we talked about that at every meeting, and how to meet those kids. Good, yeah. Yeah, because there's probably, you know, there's several kids that would maybe like to come, but they don't have a way to get there. The scholarship seemed to help with that, because it was also, that was all you and Lisa thinking about that, by offering the scholarship. It brought to some people's attention who might not have thought about it, like, wow, here's something we could do that we've been invited to do, and then they figured out the transportation piece. Yeah, maybe they can ride with somebody else's parent or, yeah, no. Well, thank you, ladies. I mean, you guys do a great job. Yes, thank you very much. Great program. Thank you. Anything else you would like to share? I mean, I think the only follow-up question I had just for clarity was around the, like the policies and the procedures, and like you guys approving that, and there was some confusion because Sharon, when you had been involved as an auditor, you'd been like, okay, we'll put it on the website, but then a question had come up. Do you guys ever approve those? So, just wondering if, I don't need to work out the history, but I'm just wondering, do you guys, do we need you guys to approve this for purposes of audit, or for any other purposes? We were even thinking about this, whom committee is separate. No? It was around the time that we were getting that consultation, and where we did make some procedural changes at that time to... Let's make a note in the minutes, and I can ask Jim if we should, because you are covered by the town's insurance now. So, it might have to be a select board policy that gets signed. Yeah, we just don't want that to kind of happen in five more years, like reopen that. Well, and one of the reasons that we did that, because I remember this part, most of the sort of sub-programs didn't have any kind of policies, and you guys were so well-organized, and relatively small-scale, so it was a great place to start. And there you go. It's pretty clear, it's the same. So we got through. Yeah, so we might be able to use yours as kind of a template. Exactly. That's worth doing for that. Yeah. And I think that things evolved, and you've had some conversations with the Treasurer and some different expectations that are actually going to have an impact on how you run the program, but just making sure those are documented and approved. Right, because everything's... They have more importance. Yeah, because everything is so much more under the scrutiny with things being audited and doing things correct, and we have all this new accounting stuff, and we have a whole set of auditors now, you know, a private auditing firm. So everybody's kind of getting more scrutiny than they used to, just... And for good reason. Well, it comes with good and bad, right? Right. Like, there's loss in there, too. Right. I think Katie put this in some correspondence, but Craftsbury was another municipality that had its own sub-program as a town, so if you, for some reason need to talk to Jim, he was the one who referred us to Craftsbury in the past, and it's, like, kind of comparable. Yeah, because this, I mean, this isn't, you know, this was revised in October of 18. Paul's these procedures. And then it's kind of like a manual. That first page is what is on the website currently. This one? Yeah, that one on the website in 2013, at the time that it was... Did we sign it in there? We couldn't find evidence of that. I don't think so. I don't think... I don't remember signing anything for this, but... But I think the auditors signed off on it, and... At the time? And so, because I have the email from you that says, like, to WALF, like, go ahead and put it up on the website, and that... That's why we did that. Felt like approval by the auditors anyway. Yeah. No, I definitely remember working on this for the reasons we were saying. Yeah. So maybe we just need to update this and put in some signature lines, and Katie can do that. Mm-hmm. Great. That makes it easy. And you guys have, I mean, revised, so you have already reviewed it, and it's coming from the Zoom committee as a recommendation to... The Slack board. Slack board. Yeah, I think it would just be that first page, which is the page that's on the website. The additional pages are kind of detailed, and we use them almost as an annual, so that if someone needs to pop in one of our places, they have all the details of basically how we run the whole thing. Do you think those pages could be included, or would it just be that initial... I don't know. I mean, it seems like this might be all part of your procedures. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think you should put the whole thing in. No. Okay. I think so too. Yeah. Then you won't lose it. Okay. And that will cover all the bases, and when we're using this as an example... Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Would you like us to expect to attend when it comes for... In front of the Slack board, you're here anyway. You're here anyway. You're here anyway. Yes, KG. You're good. You don't have to give up on us. Right. Thank you, Dylan. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Was that helpful? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of stuff I already... You already know. Yep. But thank you for asking. I appreciate it. All right. Good night. Okay, you can just let me know when you're ready. We'll put that on the agenda. Okay. All righty then. Madam Lister. Is anybody else joining you? You're a Lister now. I've got a Lister hat. I don't know what hat you wear. It's Lister tonight. Are we doing the CA time too? Even if they don't show up, we can still have a good discussion. Right. Since the Planning Commission appoints... No, yeah. Yeah, the Planning Commission recommends to the Slack board the appointment of the ZA. So on that, I've got a planning hat a little bit for ZA. But this is Lister for now. This is Lister right now. So Lister Lister. What do you want to know? What do you want to know? So there's three of you. I was just looking to see where we are. I was still getting used to this NEMRIC stuff. Listers. Yeah, we're proud on Target for our salary budget. Yeah, we have Lister wages, budgeted for FY19 at $12,000. We've been three months. And you've spent $38.60 so far. Mine says $25.10 as of $9.30. We just did some checks tonight in the warrants. Okay. No. I'm going with what Sandy sent me last week. Yeah, well, I think since then, there's been some new checks, I think. So it looks like the remaining balance is $8,140. Then we have the tax maps. What's this digitizing survey map stuff? Do you know, Jim? It's probably digitizing all the surveys that are in the book. There was no money in that budget for this year, for this year. Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't involved in that part of it. I do know that the most current 10 surveys have not been digitized, and I guess that's why, because there's no budget. Yeah, I don't know how we pay for it. Well, Maya, I don't know what I was told is that... I'm sorry to interrupt you. We did pay for some digitizing of maps. That's what you were saying. Maps and surveys are two different things. Right. No, we did do some... I think it was John or Dott's request. We did some maps. Yeah, they took all the surveys that are in there, took them apart, took them down to some company in Burlington. And they are very helpful to have, because then we can just go online and bring them up. But I know that there's 10 new surveys that are not digitized. Okay. In fact, we almost didn't know that we had 10 new surveys, which was kind of... How much does it cost to do the maps, roughly, if you have any idea? The digitization? I don't know. I didn't... I was a part of the digitization of the survey maps. Oh, okay. That's out of your will. I didn't... Yeah, I would like. So I guess it's on our... It's on as a lister. I find that interesting. But anyway... Where else would it be? I don't know. Actually, it's a requirement... Is it a requirement zoning? It's a requirement... Well, it is a requirement in planning for subdivisions. So it's... In the maps? Yeah, it's a requirement. Yeah, that the person that is asking for a permit for subdivision are supposed to provide a survey, a related survey. I'm not sure... An electronic survey? Or is it hard copy? It's all hard copy. And we're going to ask for it to be... We're talking about having it also be in a... Digital format. Electronic format, so that... Because that would save you. Right. And I guess some towns are doing it that way now. There's going to be other maps and surveys, though. Besides those. Yeah. Like what? Any private landowner can choose to have a survey done and recorded. Right. And you would want those digitized as well. Right. Can we ask for... Do you have it in hard copy and electronic? When an application comes in or when something comes up like Sharon suggesting... Yeah, we have to make it part of our zoning rights. Because that's all part of the process of that you do a permit. But in terms of what Sharon's talking about, we have nothing... I mean, if it has a private landowner just wants to have their land survey and wants to have it recorded in the land record, then they come here and do that. We have no control. I wonder if when somebody does that and wants it recorded, I wonder would that be a... I'm asking because I don't know. Would that be something the Secretary of State's office would have to say is okay to request? No, it just comes here. No, you don't hear me. If somebody, a private landowner comes in, I want this recorded in the land records. Here's a hard copy of the survey. Can we, as a town, do we have any authority to also request a digital copy? Do we have the authority to require it? That's a question. That's a general question. Yeah, what gets recorded and what the rules are. It sounds like it might be something the Secretary of State's office would have to do as part of the public records. I'm just thinking out loud a little bit. I don't know. I don't know who actually controls that whole thing. I know one time several years ago, Dot came to us and wanted to make sure that we put some money aside to do some mapping. That's the line above that, the tax map revisions. That's the parcel mapping. Is that about what we should be looking at? Yeah, 1200. It might go up to 1500, but we're part of this. I still try to figure out being part of the state parcel mapping thing this year. What the state is doing and what R.J. Turner is doing that we're paying. Christine came and spent a whole day with us that one week. A couple weeks ago, she works with R.J. Turner. We went through all of the changes for this year's, for the 2018 and the 2017, and a few other discrepancies that we have. She spent six hours working with us. It was really good to have her here, because I think you work, you get the deeds. You have to read the deeds. If there's a survey, find the survey. Getting our parcel map accurate is actually pretty good. If you're part of the state, you can only have a 0.1% discrepancy in whatever it is. There's some kind of mark. We're almost there. We're in pretty good shape. After being at a meeting and hearing Worcester, who didn't have a parcel map, I think we're in very good shape. Christine sent me an email today on this parcel mapping. I asked her, I said we had $1,200 in the budget for this year. I didn't know for sure if that would be the same thing for next year. I would assume that it would be. $1,200 you think it would be? Yeah, it might be $15, but I think it would be more pretty much on target. And the wages, what are we paying? $20 an hour? Are we paying you $20 an hour? We're paying $20 an hour. I think you can keep that. Right now we're in pretty good shape. If you look at what was budgeted and what's been paid out and what's left. Our biggest amount of time is in March and April. Although we did start doing inspections this past week or the week before, we're trying to do a little earlier on inspections so we don't have to go through mud season. Good idea. We know we're going to end up. So we probably spend a lot more time in March and April to get the close out of the year. But I think we'll be close. And I would probably, I guess, keep it at that. I can't see. Going up on it. That's the wages you're talking about? Yeah, the $20,000. And then Lister expenses, was that just like training? No. We get reimbursed for training. The expenses are the Marshall and Swift program software, which is put into our... So this is software? Yeah, both of these expenses according to Sandra were software. One is the APEX sketching software that's in Cama. And the other one is Marshall and Swift cost tables, which is an annual update from NEMRIC. So this Lister expense is software? Pretty much it's software. So where does the reimbursement for training come out of? PBR reimburses us. Oh, the town doesn't. Right. So am I understanding if that still works? I mean, they have that training. And so when we apply, then something comes back to the stake. But you don't pay it on your pocket? No. But you're right. I'm not sure where it was. And that's probably a Sandra question. Because I think we get reimbursed everything. I'm just going to make note of Lister training expenses. Think about that because I know there's questions. There's sessions from PBR. What is PBR? Property Evaluation and Reimbursing. And I'm not reporting from the taxing. They do most of the official Lister training. And you sign up. And that's probably the most one that we use. NEMRIC also provides training, which is we do try to go to one or two NEMRIC sessions. That's usually 50 bucks, I think. But I don't think we get reimbursed on that. So I don't know where that is. I'm just making a note we can ask Sandra. Yeah, because there should be something there. Unless, I think Donna in times past put it under education. Right. Well, you know the way NEMRIC does things now, we can have each thing itemized, which I think is great. Right. So I think that something has to be pulled out of what was in the old education. We just usually have one. Right. One item. And that's where Donna put it before. So there might have to be a cross reference. So because I know there is Lister education somewhere in there, especially with NEMRIC. Well, let's see what. Even if you do a website board one has a thousand. Right. In this year's current budget for education and training. So maybe it was coming out of there. Well, that's what we're going to find out. Yeah. Because I mean, even webinars are 25. NEMRIC. I mean, really, you know, I'll have to sit. Anyway, but I know they have to put on, I guess. So I would, I would, I would ask about that. I think we're pretty well on, you know, I think we can keep it the way now. The only thing to put on the, I think you, you talked about this Denise, a little bit is starting in possibly 2020. You're going to have to look at if, in fact, you're going to keep on having Listers volunteer that are paid or whether you're going to go with a professional. Right. If whoever, John or I or quit. Right. Then, you know, if you can't find anybody, if we can't find anybody to train and do this. Right. Then you may have to hire a. Well, and the reason I'm thinking about it now, because we're budgeting for F-120. We're going to be in 2019. So we're going to look to maybe be thinking about hiring an assessor. We have to be thinking about it now, because you might want to put an article on the warning for this town. We don't have to do a charter change. I've already checked that. We just need to put an article on the warning. So that's why I was asking you, you know. As far as I know. You know what your plans are. You're through 2020. I'm under 2020 or FY 2020. Well, your FY 2020 is from July 2019 to June 2020. Right. As far as I know, we're all set. Okay. But I think it's starting with July of 2020. Which will be your fiscal year 21. Right. That you might be. You might want to start considering it. Right. And that's why I'm thinking we need to put something on the town meeting warning this year. To have a discussion. Or to say that, and I don't know, we're going to have to look at how we word this, but to give the select board authority to hire an assessor. If we need it. If we aren't able to. It could be a sketch. We might all of a sudden. Right. So I think we just need to. Yeah, some of us dropped down sick or something. Yeah. Can't do the job. Well, that's why we'll get Jim to help us with the language for that article. But I think we need to be thinking about it now. Rather than getting caught later on. I'm not prepared. Do we need. Do we need authority to solve a problem we have. If in the middle of a budget year. You might have to have a special town meeting. Just to hire an assessor. Well, if it's a warrant. If it's a warrant item. You can't. If we would have in my way of thinking is if you have to warn it. For town approval. At town meeting. If something happened midterm. You'd still have to. Probably have a special town meeting with that. Maybe one. One warrant item. I guess I just rather would. Yeah. We use it. We use it. Well, even if you don't. It creates a discussion that you want to have. Right. Right. Which is a good thing. Yeah. The discussion might leave somebody you'll say he had been interested in trying it. You just never know. I mean. Right. I mean it takes. I mean look at how long. The stuff you guys know is amazing. Yeah. But it. That was right. It takes. It takes you three years to do the job before you know what questions to ask. Yeah. And so the really the training is three years. Well, Wilson's been at it for what a year now. He's been at it for a year. We each have our specialties. Yeah. There's certain things these guys do not like to do. Right. So. You get out your. Yeah. Yeah. But you know. Wilson's really interested in monitoring the sales and we need that. And. Good. So for instance. I'm interested in a lot of the detail and. The maps and things like that. Okay. This is helpful. Anything else on the list of stuff folks. I'd like to know if you are just interested. We were up to date on our property transfers actually other than what John duty put in today. And but and we were really tracking pretty on target with our value and what was going on until there until there were two sales at Lake on Lake property. And they are so much higher than what we had value. Both one, number 10 and Curtis. Number 10? Eddie Walbridge's sold and it's sold almost 80 grand more higher than our value. And Victoria Kings play sold 100 grand higher than our value. So how does that kicker? It's going to make our seal, they go down, yeah. Yeah, we just barely got it so that. I mean, you know, it's going to go down a little bit. We've been managing to keep it pretty good. We saw those. That's so hard to do. Damn, you know. Right, I'm sorry. I'm going to get Victoria's, so. A couple months ago. Yeah, because I walked my dog down Dara Road in Ireland. Yeah, she brought Eddie's. Right, and they're starting to do some work on it. It's nice to see it being used, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, it is, but it was not, we, I mean, she added the deck and stuff. And so we were, we think we were on target. I don't know why somebody spent as much as they did for it. Anyway, they did so. Maybe there was a bidding more. Could have been. It's a nice spot. And there's not much spots on number 10 pound, really. Because most of the land isn't accessible. Wait, so. Victoria's on Curtis. Right, now I'm talking about Eddie's. Eddie's, yeah. So Eddie's sold, and hasn't gotten resold. It's just Eddie. Eddie's sold. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, he paid a higher price than we had in the other deck, so. All right, well, thank you. Thank you. With your list of pound, do you want to? Yeah. Do you have any questions? Do you want to put your planning commission out on? We did that, right? We did the budget last time, yeah. No, I'm just talking about zoning. I mean, I know, I've heard from both John and Dorothy that, you know, they're not going to want to do this forever. And we need to be thinking about them not wanting to do this forever. So I did put out some feelers to, I ran into Michael Gray. What, Gray? They just hired a new zoning administrator. What does it hurt to ask, right? Yeah, and I was at a meeting and met the, the Montpelier zoning administrator lives in Worcester. And we had a little talk and the discussion was sometimes it's better to have a zoning administrator who doesn't live in the town. Right. Because when it comes to enforcement of issues, it's hard when you're trying to enforce something on somebody that you know. Whereas you can, if you don't live here, and here's the rules and you have to follow it. Right. And a person can in it. And so there's, I think, that's that. But John has mentioned it at least three times at planning commission meeting. And we have it. That should work. That he was getting tired and really didn't want it. Yeah, yeah. And the state requirements, there's getting new requirements that you have to try to remember everything to tell an applicant. You've got to go to the state for all of these things, you know. And if you just forget, you forget. And so he's tired, I think. Well, it's another one of these things where there's more and more requirements for volunteers to do. Yeah, and he's mentioned it three times. We've not put it on and discussed it and said, okay, if you don't want to do this anymore, can you give us, you know, several months so that we can find somebody in the interim? And then that would be, okay, do we try to hire somebody from out or do we get somebody from in? And so those are just some things that I've been thinking about. Well, and John's mentioned it to us that he doesn't want to do ZA forever. When we hired him. When we hired him. Yeah. When we kind of talked him into doing it. It was like, okay, I'll do it for a year. And it's been what? It's been three at least. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and Dodd's been helping out by doing the paperwork part of it for the DRB stuff and notices and stuff. So they've shared it and that's worked well because they both didn't really want to not do it. They didn't want to do all of it. Right. They both really value it. Yeah. And, you know, we pay him $500 a month which they share, something like that, $400 or $500 and they share it. We're not getting that much money. So that's another thing that budget wives, at some point, we're going to need to be thinking about we're not going to get out of this Jeep anymore. So your conversation with Michael J. mentioned he's the chair of the Ford Woodbury. Right. And he gave me the phone. He put me in contact with Bill, what's his name? Bill. Bill. What's the name of the last name? What's the new ZA? He's the new ZA. And that's a part-time job there, I guess. Yeah. So I wanted to talk to the board about going ahead and contacting this person and to start to do some leg work on it. But I want to do a connection with the planning commission because they have to recommend, right, they have to recommend to the select board we can still interview, but they do the first. That's right. So I think Gianna and I can maybe make a first attempt at contact and see what's going on. Or see if Marshfield has, I don't know, do some poking around and see what we come up with. Yeah. If that works for you guys. Anyway, it's on the table. Right. So anyways, right now we have 4,800. I'm thinking that probably by the end of FY19, which is the end of June, maybe we'll have some, you know, some leads and so forth. So we might want to think about when we're doing budgeting, you know, we might have to increase the sliming of the wages to find out what they have paid. Yeah. So we got some time between now and the time we have to finalize this budget. When does this have to be finalized? Like beginning of January. Mid to beginning of January. The select word has to have a budget. Because it has to go to the printer. We have to give Laura Philbach is doing the design, even though she's in Colorado. She's in Cincinnati. She's in Cleveland. One of those. How did you figure that out? I forget who it was in the office, contacted her and said, we know you're not here anymore, but she's the one who had been doing it. Yeah. Does she have a business that she doesn't? She's going to share just $25. She's well, and she's computing later. But she used to do it. And then last year we had reprove. Yes, doing it. And it didn't come out as nice as it used to. So anyways, the office staff, I think between Judy and Sandra and Barbara, they contacted her and she said yes. So that's good news. There's still taxpayers here, so it's good. Yeah. Anything else on zoning? No, I don't have anything else. I just was, I don't know, I had something niggling on my mind, but I can't remember what it was. Oh, I was thinking about if maybe, do you think regional planning has any information on zoning administrating wages? Probably not, huh? No, we did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. The league might. The league might, or we could ask, we could look at other towns' budgets if they have them online. If their town reports are online, we could look at their budget and get some figures. That would be an idea. Just to find out how far, if there's any difference between them. Well, and so the question for the instance, just in general is, how many hours are you doing it now? Are you interested in doing more? Maybe they're paid hourly, I don't know. I mean, full-call with Turks and we'll give you that in a few minutes. So anyways, we just need to start, I think it's one of these other things that we need to start thinking about, because we're going to get tired. All right, thanks, Jan. Anything else, Jan? The reason why I was going raw is because I got to notice that the Democratic senator in Arizona won. Oh, was there a recount? There wasn't a recount there, but not in Arizona. They just said they announced the Democrat one. What's the one in Florida? They'll be counting forever. Eight million. They invented recounts. They went to court and said, no, you can't. They tried to lock down it so they wouldn't be counted. They claim this voter fraud. You have provisional ballots. Yeah. All right, thank you. Good night, thank you. When I remember that guy's last name. I haven't written down at home. All right, see you later. Good night. She's great. She does a lot for the count. And she's getting tired of... Oh, she is? Oh, no, let's say she's so awesome on that. Right? She's a newbie, relatively. She's jumped right in. She doesn't love that stopper. Because one of the things that I've talked to Jan about, and I think maybe we talked about when planning was here, I think we need to take our count plan, maybe our zoning, and get somebody professional to look at it. I mean, it's like maybe some pages along the town plan. Is there a way to combine some things? So that isn't so long. Because when you're the planning commission and you're working on it, you keep adding? Well, there's something in there for everybody, I'm sure, to justify what it is. The plan hasn't taken on so many things, like this office. These plans function differently than they did even 25 years ago. They become regulatory documents and they're in the Public Utility Commission, then the Act of 54, and there's case law that's evolved, and it's required these plans to do things differently than originally anticipated. Well, in a conversation I had with Jan, apparently there's I don't know if this is, maybe through CDRPC that they have a list of people that I don't know what you call them, people that would go through it and make recommendations and be willing to work on condensing things. So at some point we're going to have to start planning somebody for that as well. And you're going to be doing something with them. Pretty soon, right? I think so. So that's going to be helpful. He's got an interest in condensing. You're typing it. Anyways, that's just something to put out there too. At some point, you know, to make the document usable and readable, it might be good to get a professional to kind of look at it and take a whole, even say something. No, I agree. And I'm going to, well that's you know, that's something a good editor would do. And then I think, but you don't want a good editor who has no knowledge of the law. Right, right. It's got to be somebody who knows why this is in there. Ideally somebody who, as they're doing it and condensing it, could actually annotate back to the statute. So you know this paragraph is word from word from the statute. You don't mess with it. It is. Or you just need to put those discussions a little better about how this could be better worded. For sure it could be, but Well, that's something we need somebody a professional to do. We don't know if the thing is actually wordier than it needs to be. It might be concise given the breath that it needs to cover these days. And I think that's what we need and when you're the Planning Commission looking at it it's like, where do you start? You know, it's like this. One of the things that I'm reminded of, Denise, is the conversation we had some time over the past, I don't know how long about the opportunity we have because we are a graying state a graying state, a graying town. Like, okay, so a couple people come to mind but I won't name today who are I'm here getting close to retirement. So that there are people like that all the time with skills and knowledge that we can tab into that. That would be great. It's an opportunity, right? The conversation was where we were saying it's an opportunity. If that's what they want to do in retirement there are many versions of retirement. Yeah, there's mine. It's yours where you work more hours than when you work at the state. But you make less money, so you make less money. I don't have to get up early but I don't have to drive to Montpelier but that's right. There's a consolation. That's the movie prize. You get the more or less color hours. Yeah, Saturday, Sundays, holidays. Today's the holiday. Yeah. Okay, and just so you know our CBPRC dues are going up from I just got a letter. They're worth it. We have a really good regional planning mission. Regional planning mission. Yeah. So anyways, that's that discussion. Do you know what they're going up to? Yeah, they're going up to 1928 and 40 cents. That's cheap. That's 1,928. Right, per year. That's it. Yeah. They get a lot of... They get a lot of... $1,010. $1,010. No. Well, it's currently... $110. The budget... It's increased by $110. Yep, it was 1815 and now it's going to 1928. Yeah, it's $1. It's $1.20 per capita. 1828. 1928 minus 16. It's minimal. And Saint-Germain Solid Waste Management District. That's not going up. I don't know about VLCT yet. It's 6% the other one, just FYI. Say what? 6%. It's small dollars, but it's 6%. It means DVRVC. Yeah. Well, I don't see... Well, I don't see... Saint-Germain Solid Waste Management is not going up. I don't know about VLCT. We don't have the county tax thing yet. What's the lead cost this year? This says budgeted in FY19, 2872. Where are all those numbers? They're on this... Yeah, which page? This is green. This is green. Is there anyone? Yeah. All right. And we don't know... I'm kind of leading into the next agenda item, which is kind of... At some point, we're going to have to have one of our meetings when we get into maybe the first meeting in January. We're going to have to just devote a meeting to a budget kind of working session on the agenda because we're going to have to sharpen our pencils because everybody wants more money and they're not wrong. Everything costs more. Everybody wants to do more. We've got all these other things. So we're really going to have to be looking at the bottom line. We don't know how much our school taxes are going to go up. But I think at some point, we have to... There's not a lot we can do about that. We've tried over the years to do that, but with Act 46, it's going to be out of our control. I was very shocked at what the very other department requested. Yeah, that was a lot. That was huge. They want a million dollar building. Yeah, I don't know. I think at some point we've got two million dollar buildings bounding us. We've talked about it before that we have two fire departments. Brought this up before. And you know, it's huge expense to have, too. It really is. Where do you only town that I know of? I know of. That's true. Is that tradition or is it tradition? Does a tradition entail us whether you go to Montpelier or you go hard with, let's say. Whatever. Oh, okay. I wasn't telling what you meant. Is that tradition embedded with some geographic basis, like the division of the Green Mountains down the state of Vermont meant, historically, the east side and the west side were pre separated. Different cultures. But with a geographic and topographical reason for it. So bottom line is, is it an access problem? It started out in 1960. The Woodbury Fire Department was formed pre-neil, but Bat Gelder and a few others. And I don't know when the East Montpelier Fire Department was formed. It was in 1964. It went around the same time. And there was no mutual aid back then. So those guys up there didn't form a fire department. So they kind of said, well, we'll help you out. You got to help us pay our bills. And then, so did East Montpelier. And they only had little, crummy little trucks. They didn't have much. So it made sense. And it didn't cost much. And it made sense. But now we got these high tech pump everything trucks that do amazing things. And houses, last I knew, still burn the exact same way. You know, they go on fire. They still go up. They still burn. Same rate. Maybe worse. Well, for most of us getting a fire department to our house in time before it goes to the ground, no matter which fire department it is, it's probably not going to happen. Yeah, usually. Save it up. Because somebody said, what about Worcester Fire Department? You know, there's Maple Corner people, who's, and because of mutual aid, if that goes out, they have to respond, correct? Worcester Wood or Montpelier? This is the thing. This is what's happened. So we got hooked into two fire departments before there was mutual aid. At the point time mutual aid began, I think that was the time for the hard conversation. No, that was a long time. It was in the 1770s. It actually happened after Worcester Wood's house caught fire because Montpelier came and helped. And then they had a conversation anyway. Mutual aid, you don't have to pay, right? Mutual aid is part of the capital fire mutual aid district. But you have your fire department. If Caltech's fired, we'd have our fire department. And if my house caught fire, Caltech would be the first responder. And then the fire companies on either side of us, much like it would send at least a truck just to back us up. At least to move water. And, you know, and this thing was really going for it. And they were trying to save, maybe the barn's burning, they were trying to save the house. They'd call in more help. And Worcester and Montpelier and Markfield and so on. So that's what they would do. But I don't think we're unique in Vermont in terms of our needs. I think there are always going to be towns. I mean, every town has a part of town that's further from the fire department than another part. And they don't say, okay, water barrier doesn't say, okay, we have a fire department in our town. But, you know, the other side of town by middle sex, they don't pay the middle sex fire department and they don't pay the Richmond fire department. We are in this unique thing and I think it's, to me, it's like we need to have a real conversation about this. And if we become very dependent, Woodbury's become very dependent on us. East Montpelier's dependent on us and that's how it's worked out. But I think we got a fishing cut bait. I think we got to pick one. And that's why I keep saying it. He thought about merger and it's like Toby always chimed in, impossible! You know, I'm trying to figure out a way to make it less painful. And I keep bringing it up. How's the best way to... No, and I... We got brought it up over the years and we've gotten shot down. Just the looks alone from fire department people, it's like... We had a fire department from there. But now we've bought a building. Right. So I don't see us, we're obligated. They're going to be coming to us to get money for the building from Woodbury. I don't know that. And that might be when we say we don't want to be part owners of another building. We can't afford it. What happens if Calis is not part of the apartment? Is there still a Woodbury fire department? There's no difference. That's the whole thing. There's no difference if... Well, monetarily I think you're getting at it. My question is, can they afford... What happens to their fire department? They respond to more calls in Calis than they do in Woodbury. My question though is if they don't have the revenue from Calis, is... Can they sustain a fire department so that we can assume which Michelin needs to be there? Probably not. Not with the equipment that they use these days. If you look at our fire and ambulance budget and in the Eastmount Pillar now, they got the EMTs, that cost us a little money. Because there's salaries and stuff. So it's just growing and growing and I predict at some point Eastmount Pillar is going to want to be a paid... a paid fire department. That's going to cost us... Everything's set up for that. It's all ready to go. But if you look at our bottom line budgeted for FY19 for fire and ambulance, $181,669. That's pretty good. Yeah. That's a serious budget. That's a lot of money. We could actually put that money into an account and just buy people houses every time they burn. It would be cheaper. Your house burned down. That's a really good idea. It includes ambulance though. Oh, it's ambulance too. And then 17... 17... 15. So we're spending $48,000... Oh, my calculator's starting to do funky things. Every time. The total that we're... It's $48,300 something. And then they're coming to us wanting... What was it? $40,000? We pay $17,820 Right. For their truck replacement fund and they're going to ask for $48,000. So for the next six years $40,000. $40,000 plus the $17,000. So it's like $57,820 for six years. But if you take the total Woodbury... That's an operating budget. It's up to $88,300. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this is one of these topics that people will be passionate about. You know, when schools... I mean, this is a lot like the school conversation. It's an essential service. Absolutely. And it's a very expensive one. And it's having a huge impact on our property taxes. And... So people are talking about getting rid of schools. I mean, $88,000 in our budget is a big amount. Oh, yeah. It's a big amount of money. It is the... We heard a living that we have now that we didn't have in the 50s before. You know, there is an expectation that when you call the fire department there will... That's right. Well, insurance companies do expect... Right. But most of us in Calis, whichever fire department we're served by don't live within the radius that the insurance companies give you. They give you like five miles. I don't. No matter which fire department we pick there. I don't think that's enough. No, you won't. Actually, I'm really close because we have the station on Teppelton Road. So from my house to Edmont Village and Centre Road to Teppelton Road, just around three miles. I bet I'm right about the five mile road traffic. Right about five miles. Because they counted... Oh, but maybe 10. So anyway, this has come up before when there was other select board members, Rose and one member, John and one member. It's been a touchy subject. Really? And a tough subject because... Is this one of those where... Well, I'll save my question until we go through with the final two. Yeah. Yeah. So, can you guys, if we can get this electronically put in a folder, can you start looking at this the budget and just having your minds and thoughts and where can we look to make some changes or... And are we putting in here is... Are we populating us a request to come in? Well, I could kind of write on this one. Definitely. Yeah. Is it possible that we could get it to the electronic version updated so we're all working from the same memory or notes? Yeah. What Sandra has requested was for me to do it on here. She will then update the electronic copy and at some point she's going to have to let us have an electronic copy. Yeah. So she's going to update the post. Right. Get that number in here. Perfect. Because electronically you can go through and it will add it up for you instead of doing what we're doing tonight. All right. Credit card policy. Are you able to print? Is Katie able to print now? Katie, you had a question on that. Oh, you did? And your email was like, was this the word? I'm sure you're on. Never mind. Credit card policy? I know I have to do the email though. When you make a change, or you ask a question, all you get is the question. An email with no context. Katie's question was, it might have come to me because I'm the name on the drafter on that policy. No, I wouldn't. Credit card policy? Oh, right. So I don't know why I got it. Maybe we all did. But we did this last time, right? Right. I updated all of the changes. And we were going to print it off and sign it tonight. Right? I don't know. I thought there was... It was like, what does Kaco Well, we want to get rid of that first page. You know, we want to delete the first page. Um... And then we want to get rid of where I created on my computer raising the DW. We want to get rid of that. Katie, you said, please invite the... Right. Why is that not coming up on here? Did someone resolve it? Let me search it and see if it's in there. D-A-R-D-O-Y? I remember that. What is it? Where was that? Please... There was... It's a nonsense word. I must have changed it. Did I change it? Did you figure it out what it is? Where was it? Search for it. I searched for it. Well, if you do a spell check, wouldn't it pick it up? If it's a non-word, if you do a spell check, it would pick it up. I just didn't, and it's not in there. I'm sorry, I don't remember resolving that. It's not true enough. Alright, good enough. We still don't know what it is. Right. And I guess it doesn't matter. Maybe it was... I don't want to download Trump's tweets. I didn't think so. I used to say, it must have been the star report. Right. Yeah, maybe. Here, Katie. I thought we got that fixed. You know, but then I think you've got a new copier. But let me check and see if I can. Oh. And I did email this to the office staff and said, this is what we're getting ready to sign. Review it. Let me know if you have any questions or thoughts. And they didn't get back to me. We get rid of page one, right? That whole... Yeah, so we got rid of that page. We got a comment on the top of page two. If you look at the top of page two. I think I'm in a different version than you're in Katie's. Uh-oh. We're not seeing each other doing things. No. It's okay. I want to see if I can find it. Because I don't think I printed. I figured we could print it. We're in. Yep. We're seeing what you're doing. Okay. Does this stay? No. That came from the previous page. Do you want to type it on? Do you want to type the date? Yep. Today's date should go in there. Do you see there's a comment pink thing with your name on it, Cliff? I think that's something I've come out with. Okay. And then, of course, scroll down to the last page. Um... I thought they had no member. Yeah. So you don't know if I'll print. Because I can get in there, but print's out in there. Do you need to label the page numbers? Because if this page gets lost or separated... Yeah. Do we have anything else we can do while 4K is doing that? Instead of hovering? Yeah. Right. Well, we agreed that we would sign it this time. So I don't know whether we need another motion to sign it. I think we did that last time. I'll give you just a quick update. We received an abatement request from Martha 11. We did an abatement a few years ago because they're house burn. So I don't know if it's just something maybe that can be fixed internally with the Listers. Giving Sandra the update information maybe she just needs to send a revised tax bill. I don't know. Right. And we abated it in 2016 or 2017 for this exact same reason as the house burn. Doesn't that just mean the Listers haven't updated the... That's what I'm saying. We're trying to get to the bottom of it that maybe we won't have to have an abatement request but she filed a request. Just a piece of land. Let's see. What else is going on with us? It's pretty much it. We're not meeting next Monday night. The 19th. You and Sharon are both gone. It's Thanksgiving week. We'll be meeting on the 26th. That's the Monday after Thanksgiving week. Cross side. Oh dear. Well, you said you were going to be gone the 19th though. Yeah. So the next regular meeting would be November 26th. Can I... I didn't hear it go, but I see there's something on that printer. I pressed... Is this opening? I gotta get what he needs. I've seen it twice. Once without page numbers. Yeah, November 26th is a regular meeting. And then we'll be into December where we're going to have the MFD quarterly meeting and all kinds of stuff. Crew, the winter's half over and hasn't started. So we're going to need to go into the second session to discuss personnel matters and confidential secret stuff. For the personnel, I don't have it right in front of me, Katie, to read it. And we... to talk about... I had something about the orders that I wanted to say. Um... It didn't print, Katie. I have something to say about them too, but they're personnel units. I think that's going to be what... If you're thinking the same thing as me, John, as a personnel... He's a couple. The only other thing I wanted to say that I think isn't personnel is it seems like the road crew is still on the summer schedule, four, ten-hour days. Oh, because I... They're doing half-days on products now. Oh, because the... I looked at the time cards and they were four, ten-hour days. That's up to when? I don't know, John. You got the papers in front of you. I don't think it's printing. Maybe we can... I'll have to call the cell. I think it's the very last thing this time. You had it set up a few months ago. But you know what, never mind. Don't call them. I'll just print it out and write it to you. You did not vote last meeting to approve it. Oh, we didn't. You decided not to. Oh, I think that's... I think that's right. So why don't we just vote to approve it effective today as it says on the document? And... Can people just stop by and sign it? You signed for me? Oh, you wanted the date? Yes. October 29th to November 4th. Okay. So maybe this week they've started... They're multi-tasking. Yes, I will come on. You're doing half days on Friday? We can sign it Wednesday. So, you know, the other thing... I think, you know, you could talk about it under person or whatever. I don't know. It's about their hours that they get six o'clock in the morning if it's not snowing. I mean, we talked about September 3rd. Right. Instead of six. All right, so we need a motion to approve the policy with board members agreeing to stop by and sign it. Effective today. So moved. You can sign for me. Okay, I'll just do an electronic signature thing for you. Thank you. So that was the credit card policy. Right. And we're going to sign it electronically for John. Okay. All those in favor, is there any further discussion? Please say hi. Hi. Any opposed? None. All right, so I would entertain a motion to go into the second session to discuss personnel managers per one VSA section 313A3 and contract issues. Any legal reference? I don't know what that is. No, it's one of the 313 stuff. 313TPD. No, we need to set step two to six. It's contract related. It's personnel related. At 858. 858. Is there a second to that motion? All right, all those in favor, please say hi. Hi. Any opposed? Here are none. Thank you.