 Aloha awinola, I'm Kaui, Lucas host of Hawaii is my main lab, focused on the bright side and off the grid, live streaming every Friday at 3pm. Unless you have been living under a rock, you will have heard of the decision last month by the Department of Army not to grant the easement under late o'ahi to build the Dakota Access oil pipeline in Standing Rock, North Dakota. Andre Perez, originally from Koloa, Kauai, he currently resides on Oahu where he engages in community activism and organizing around social justice. His community works centers on Hawaiian sovereignty and his self-determination. His academic research focuses on Hawaiian religion and traditional practices. Andre made two trips to Standing Rock recently, North Dakota, one in October and one last month to assist with non-violent direct action training. Villena! Aloha! Well, after lots of pits and starts, here we are finally and I have been dying to talk to you for months actually. I had such a great time talking to your partner, Camille, about Mauna Kea and it seems just beautiful to have you here talking about North Dakota. Mahalo, I'm happy to share the experience with you and everyone. So, give us the background of how you got involved and what you did there. I really got involved via relationships and activist relationships. So a couple years ago I had attended this direct action training with the Indigenous People's Power Project. And as Standing Rock began to unfold, of course many of us were following it on Facebook and other forms of news. And I noticed that a lot of people that I knew from Indigenous activist circles in America on the continent were there and I came across a name that was the Point of Contact for Red Warrior Camp and I was like, hey, I know this person. So a friend of mine, Crystal Lorraine Tubels, I gave her a call and said, hey, we were thinking about coming up, but we want to, this is the first trip in October, me and Camille, we wanted to go up to sort of reciprocate that support that came to Hawaii to Mauna Kea with Native American brothers and sisters and people from Aotearoa. Many people came. So we don't want to be sort of Hawaii centric in our solidarity. We want to sort of reciprocate that. So we felt compelled to go, but we wanted to go with a purpose and to bring something that we thought would be helpful. So we have a picture of you and Camille from that October trip and there you are. Yep. This is us at the Oceti Shacoen camp in mid-October. So what was going on and what did you guys do? So that first trip, we went there. We coordinated our trip directly with Red Warrior Camp because that's who we had contacts with and I knew a few people that were there. And we went to help bring a component to kind of help bolster their direct action. And here in Hawaii, Mauna Kea, Camille has done trainings for legal observers and legal observers are these designated folks who monitor arrests and they document arrests. And they make sure that if people's rights are being violated or if their arrests are aggressive and people get injured during arrest that it's documented. And it also serves as a tactic to kind of keep the police on notice that they are being monitored and that everything's being documented. And it sounds like there was plenty to document. We have a picture of the vehicles. What was going on with that? Well, these vehicles I took pictures of on my second trip in December, but these are the vehicles that were just outside that infamous bridge on the 1806 highway. And these vehicles are the result of direct action confrontations with the police. And later the police had used the vehicles to blockade the road and to cut off access to the camp and to try to hobble them by cutting off access and making it more difficult for people to get in and out. So what was the, were you witness to any of the direct actions? Yeah, so in the October trip we went there actually to help with legal observer training and that kind of didn't pan out the way we had planned. So as often happens, so, but we were activists and we believe in nonviolent direct action. And so we just plugged right into Red Warrior Camp and participated in direct action planning. And this was the one that happened on Indigenous People's Day, also known as Columbus Day in their narrative, the other side. And that was, I think it was October 10th. So we participated in the planning of a direct action, which was a ceremony on the pipeline and the erecting of a teepee. And we were right in the mix on that and right on the front line and, you know, with the police, I think over 20 people got arrested and the police came in force. Camille did function as a legal observer in her own capacity for that action. And she had a few other people with her that she had trained. But I mean, we were right in the mix on that particular action and, you know, we're, you know, what was the tension? Yeah, what was that like? I mean, it was, it was intense, you know, there was a lot of police. They came armed with weapons, shotguns and rifles and a whole squad of police with batons. There was tension with the people as can be expected. You know, a lot of shouting, chanting, singing. But there's no question that it was always peaceful, you know. Yeah, there's shouting, there's yelling, you know, there's chanting. But the people demonstrated a lot of discipline. And it was an experience for us to see that level of police mobilization. There were helicopters and airplanes, you know, there were a lot of police. And there was a tense standoff and a lot of people got arrested. So how did you avoid getting arrested? I just basically was conscious of where the police were and paid attention to what they were doing and knowing where the boundaries were between public and private property. And I wasn't adverse at that. I really wasn't adverse to getting arrested if it was necessary to support the cause, you know, to, to put a body on the line. But I was also conscious that being a person from Hawaii, getting arrested would entail a lot more logistics afterwards, you know, coming back for subsequent court cases. So I guess my position was if it was necessary, I wasn't adverse to it, but I wasn't going to throw myself on the sword unnecessarily. We're grateful. So yeah, I just knew where the boundaries were and kind of kept off the boundaries. So there's a lot of coordination when it comes down to this. How did that happen? The coordination, it was fascinating. I heard or read that you, every day at two o'clock, you did a training. We have some pictures of that. So this organization that I was working with, that I was there for on the second trip, the Indigenous Peoples Power Project, they're a network of Native Indigenous activists from across, across the continent, you know, in Canada. And they're a network of trainers. So they, this is kind of what they do. They come in and they help train nonviolent direct action and they help strategize direct actions. So they were there at the camp from September near the beginning at the request of the tribe and they were there to, and this is the part that I saw that was very organized. So they had a kuleana, they had a specific function. Their job there was to train all newcomers in nonviolent direct action orientation. So you know, the trainers were cycling in and out and in October after my first trip, I got a call back and said, hey, we need another trainer. Do you want to come and help us do the trainings? Yeah, they're every day at two o'clock and it can be anyone from... That's what we're looking at. That's what we're looking at right now. This is like, I think my second week there after it started to snow, but anywhere from 50 to 300 people on each day it fluctuated, sometimes 75, sometimes 100, 200. But you know, to me, a very important component of the Ocete Shaco in camp was that there was training requirements. People had to go to a camp orientation. They had to go to nonviolent direct action training. And I think that's what kept the discipline. Here we see, this is training that we did on soft blockades, human blockades, in the event that we need to hold space and protect elders, protect people who are in ceremony, or just kind of hold the police, hold space against the police. We did training on nonviolent soft blockades, you know, where people lock arms information. And then I'm seeing a lot of flags around. What was that? So all the flags represent really all the different nations and tribes that support, that came and who stand in solidarity with the Standing Sioux Tribe and the water protectors. So there's hundreds of tribes from, hundreds of flags representing Native American tribes. But there's also flags, of course, from Hawaii, from Aotearoa, from other countries that came to support, or people from, you know, who represented. So, and who is this? So these are members of Indigenous Peoples Power Project. This is our training tent. So we had this tent set up in a field, and it's where we did our two o'clock nonviolent direct action training, but it only had a capacity of about 50 people. So more than half the time we were out in the field in the snow because it just couldn't hold capacity. So it seems remarkable that so many people, I mean, how many people were there when you were there in the summer? So when I got there, it was Thanksgiving weekend. So a lot of people came out for that just because of the three-day weekend. So when I got there, the first time I got there, I would say there was about maybe 1,500 to 2,000 people back in October. And it fluctuated off and on, off and on. But when I got there for Thanksgiving weekend, or so-called Thanksgiving, I think there was about 4,000 people. And I thought that was huge. It was huge. It was more than double than what I had seen. And then the following weekend was the weekend when all the vets came in. And that ballooned upwards of around, the estimates are 12 to 14,000 people. Were you there when? Oh yeah, I was there for that entire episode. And Tulsi, were you there for her? I was there when Tulsi came. And some people may have seen we had a little disagreement maybe. It was cordial, but I respect that she made the effort to come. I'm sure that she was motivated to come because a lot of vets came, and it became this kind of vet solidarity thing. But I was also conscious as a person from Hawaii, engaged in Hawaiian issues. I was conscious that I don't see her really taking strong stances on Hawaiian issues. Okay, so is that what the disagreement was about? We're about to go to a break, but let's talk about that a little bit. Okay, well let's take a break now then and come back and talk about it more. Because that's a pretty good subject. Hello, this is Martin Despeng. I want to get you excited about my new show, which is Humane Architecture for Hawaii and Beyond. We're going to broadcast on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. here on Think Tech Hawaii. Looking to energize your Friday afternoon? Tune in to Stand the Energyman at 12 noon. Aloha Friday here on Think Tech Hawaii. Good afternoon, Howard Wiig, Code Green, ThinkTechHawaii.com. I appear on Mondays at 3 o'clock, and my gig is energy efficiency doing more with less. It's the most cost effective way that we in Hawaii are going to achieve 100% clean energy by the year 2045. I look forward to being with you. Aloha. Andre Perez, who was part of the training crew at Outstanding Rock. And we were just talking about the weekend that the vets came and Tulsi was there, and you had a little discussion. Yeah, you know, a little, I mean, I just basically spoke up to correct some misinformation that she was putting out. And I don't know that it was intentional or malicious, but more important than that was it was important that I corrected her with the fact. So what does she know now that she didn't know? Well, she was asked a question by a Native American man and about Hawaii. And I found out later, his name was Charlie, that he had met other Hawaiians who had come to Standing Rock, in particular, Sam Kelihomalu from Kalapana. And so he was aware of Mauna Kea. And so he asked her, what about Hawaii? What's going on with Mauna Kea? And she replied, essentially, that issue has been resolved. They're taking the TMT to the Canary Islands. And so I was there in this group of about 300 vets, and there was a lot of media. And that wasn't factual. And I don't know if it was intentional or not. I'd like to hope not. But I just said, hey, that's not exactly true. You know, I'm from Hawaii. You know, I'm Kanaka. I was on that mountain and got arrested. I'm involved in that struggle to a certain degree. And it's not over. They're still trying to get a permit to build on Mauna Kea. It's not resolved. And in fact, we're in the middle of contested case hearings in Hawaii right now for the permit. And so she acknowledged that she stood corrected and thanked me. And then later, I talked to her about it. I just said, it's important that we put out correct information. And she agreed. So that was that. Like you say, it's pretty good that she showed up. I was pretty happy that she mentioned the Red Hill fuel tanks, which is a big deal for me. And at least she gave voice to that in the context of being water protectors. I think the big thing, though, that a lot of especially Hawaiians who are struggling with the similar issues, water rights, burial protections, sacred sites, that if she's going to go to North Dakota to stand for those things, we would hope that she's going to do the same here. It's not unreasonable to expect that from our state. Very, very good point. I will add, she was at the last meeting about the Red Hill fuel tanks. And she didn't make any press or do anything because she came a little bit late. But she did show up. So thanks for keeping her on point. So this is one of the biggest. Oh, I've read it. What the Standing Rock is the biggest gathering of native tribes in the history of or modern history. Yeah. Yeah. So what was it like with all of those different tribes? And how do they seem to be they seem to be pretty good at coming together? I think that there were, I mean, they're not without their own struggles and strife, you know, and disagreements, but they instituted something very important. They set a tone. They set a set of principles that the camp, when soon as you drive into the camp, you see this big board that has the principles. And that was part of our training as well. But the principles really set the foundation for what what people are there for and what they're, you know, how they how they carry themselves. So let's have an example. So some of the some of the key principles are that, you know, we're here to protect water. We're here to stop the pipeline. We're here for ceremony and prayer. We respect local leadership. There was a principle about dealing with isms, racism, chauvinism, sexism, you know, patriarchy, which I thought was really progressive. And I heard it time and time again that women are part of the process and decision making process and need to be that standard needs to be upheld and respected and that not just men. You know, we think of chiefs and tribal councils and, you know, the visual is always men calling the shots. Well, they were very conscious and good about sort of kind of tearing down some of those processes, you know, that are kind of male-centric. So I was impressed by, you know, how these foundational principles kept people on point. And people would remind each other, we're here for the water. That's what we're here for. And they're the, it really was successful to have, I mean, the idea of 7,000 or 8,000 people camping in a place that is not set up for that is pretty staggering. But they were able to keep order without the authorities. And I think so. I mean, that's gorgeous. That's awesome. You know, I mean, you know, sometimes indigenous, native, whatever you want to call us, you know, we get stigmatized. There was a lot of order. There was extremely well-organized medical care. So there was a medic camp that had MD doctors in one tent. There was naturopathic herbal doctors in another one. There was a chiropractor and a bunch of lomi-lomi masseuses. Oh, wow. There was a mental health, kind of emotional trauma care tent. You could go people, you know, a lot of emotions. They were always organized and always on duty 24-7. I kind of felt like you could get better healthcare at that camp than on the street anywhere else in the U.S., you know. Wow. But there was security that was on camp 24-7 entry and exit. Security was self-security, I mean, in other words. Self-organized. By the tribes and not by the officials. No, yeah, self-organized volunteers. A lot of them were Native American vets who, you know, had military background. I never heard anybody say, well, so how was the chain of command? I mean, how did you guys figure that out? I wasn't, you know, I can tell you my perspective. But I think it changed over time. The chain of command, you know, was sort of dynamic. But I think one of the critical things that I just saw happen was the Oceti Shacoin, that name is the name of the seven tribes, you know, that make up the regional Lakota and Lakota and Dakota. And it's an old name that talks about their kind of unification, I guess. And so they had a ceremony. And in that ceremony, they identified headsmen that would represent each tribe. So seven headsmen. And I think there was some, like, alternate headsmen. And there was not always agreement, but I think there was a big push to kind of recognize these seven headsmen who would take leadership and responsibility for the camp and be responsible for security and be responsible for sanctioning direct actions. And then, of course, there was the tribal council, the Standing Rock Council. And, you know, I mean, we're all human. There wasn't always agreement. And there wasn't always things happening on the same page. But at the end of the day, I mean, the conduct, the mannerisms, was there, like Aloha Aina, you know, for love of the land, for love of the water. People helped each other. People got along. So, you know, I don't think there was anything that takes away from the real purpose of struggle. You know, you were, I was so grateful that you were posting so prolifically, well, not prolifically enough, actually, but there were, we would get these little snippets from time to time on Facebook, principally through the, I saw it through the Aloha Aina site. And I felt it was so inspiring for us back here to see how inclusive it was. You mentioned the women and, you know, taking a look at the patriarchy and having natural medicines. And I'm sorry that a lot of the visuals didn't work out. There was, I've seen beautiful pictures of how the medicines were done. But you also had pictures of the art, that there was an art tent. And we're going to show that video that you made. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Isn't that one cool? That's mine. My jacket. It's cool. Can you give me a quick narrative? What's going on here? Okay. What's going on is that this is the art that's supporting the front line. So anybody that's on the front line and, and going and doing things and being productive and thoughtful and mindful. This is all the stuff that we make. We make these patches and then on alternative days, what we do is we open it up. So other people from around camp can bring their t-shirts in. Look at these baby onesies. So that way they can show their support wherever it is that they can. And you know, honoring the, honoring the sacred and making sure that they get the word out. And you know, showing off the beautiful art and the amazing artists that are helping to make this possible. All of the art is being sanctioned. They're approved by the youth council and the elders and, and that. So that way we know that whatever is on the screen and it's getting printed is appropriate for the area of what we're asking. And can you tell me your name or where you're from? My name's Lucretia James and I'm tonight from Northern B.C. Sin means origin and ice means full head trout. And so we were considered extinct in 1956. And so I'm down here in the U.S. And we're, my father's side is the Calville tribal, but up in B.C. we're not, we're not actually alive anymore. Oh, thank you. Yes, thank you. All right. So in the last couple of minutes, Andre, tell us what it really meant for you. Well, I mean, for me, it meant, you know, one, expressing solidarity, you know, and we're, we're not going to solve our issues by ourselves here in Hawaii. You know, as my good friend, uh, Calico says, Hawaii won't be free until the Pacific is free. Right. None of us are free if one of us is chained. So it was important to go there and express that solidarity and to help. But also, um, to bring back that experience, that kind of activism. I don't think that we've really, um, have that level of nonviolent direct action training. And I'm hoping to, um, sort of bring back that experience and introduce, you know, it's kind of introduced, um, the training and level of organizing and activism that I've seen there here for our issues. I think it's important. Yes. So is that in the works? Um, I'm working on a few things. Um, I got a few training trips planned out. I have something on the back burner that I'm looking to establish. And, and you said your, um, your, your institute there, the, I'm looking to establish the Hawaii Unity and Liberation Institute as a, as a training org, um, for this kind of activism and training. Yeah. And that, that incorporates not just nonviolent direct action, but also the art component and art being, you know, so important to messaging and narrative, you know, and political expression. Absolutely. There's so often left out, at least in the Western world, and it was just inspiring to see how integrated it was at Standing Rock. Standing Rock is a shining example of how they, they used art, you know, I mean, they had the whole tent dedicated, um, Indigenous People's Power Project created the action art tent or the art action tent and just artists pumping out silk screen prints all day. Okay. So in the next, uh, big sovereignty, maybe, uh, or something, are we going to have an art tent? I'm hoping to, to, it's something that we're working on. Oh, thank you so much for coming over, Andre, and talking to us. Mahalo, mahalo nui, aloha. Aloha.