 Hello everyone, welcome to Mind Pump. This may be our most controversial episode ever. Honestly, I'm nervous to have it up here on YouTube, but we're going to go for it. Today we speak with our good friend Josh Trent from the Wellness and Wisdom podcast. He's an excellent communicator. You're going to really enjoy the conversation. The topics cover many things such as fatherhood, freedom, the pandemic, and more. Enjoy the show. When were you here last? 2018. Really? 28. That's been a long time. Now, was that the last time we all were even together or did we do something together since then? Because I felt like- We were in Tahoe when you guys did an event in Tahoe. Okay, so that was a lesson. Yeah. That was pre-plandemic. Yes. Oh. Hey, listen, you trying to get us canceled? Sorry. They're already looking at me. Sorry. Yeah, it's been a while. A lot's happened in like four years. Besides, I'm not talking about the world, I mean like personal. Yes. You're a dad. You weren't a dad last time. No. How old is your little one? 16 months. Oh. Yeah. Girl, right? Little girl? No, it's a little boy. Little boy named Nova. And LVAH. Get that spelling right? Yeah. Adorable. Yeah, I love him so much, man. Yeah. It was like somebody carved out a space in my heart that I didn't know was there. Yeah. And that's the only way I could describe fatherhood. I mean, there's so much more, but that's like- Isn't that weird? Not really. I wanted to be a father my whole life, but really I didn't earn it yet. Like you have to earn being a father. What do you mean? Well, you have to have the responsibility, you have to be responsible to be able to be a dad. You can't just be a reactive kid that's like trying to be hedonistic all the time. Which is what a lot of us get stuck in, and this whole society's built on taking advantage of hedonism and, you know, our insecurities, that's how we're fucking monetized. So- That's a powerful statement. Bro. Dude, let's talk about that in our space. Yeah. I feel like- I feel like you're in our heads. We literally were having this conversation today. I was telling them, you know, it's like my grandfather just passed away. He's a patriarch of the family, very close, been very, very hard for everybody. And, you know, when something like that happens, you examine things, you look at things. Yeah, he was in his 90s. Right? Yeah, 91 years old. Yeah. And I just, you know, you think he lived such a hard life, I'm very poor, I don't want to get all into it, but you look at it and you go, man, what a terrible lie that, and we'll just talk about young men now, what a terrible lie we're told in modern societies that having kids, starting a family, it sucks. It's a lot of work. You want to be free, man. You want to go drive fast cars and hook up with a lot of women and responsibility, that sucks. Yeah. You just go make money and do your thing. And what you're talking about is exactly that, but actually the opposite. It's the opposite. So what was that experience like? A kid going from do whatever you want, yeah, Peter Pan to, oh, I'm a dad now. Yeah, you know, I got wrapped into that world of psychedelics. That was like the last time I think we all hung out, it was deep in that world. Yeah. And, you know, it's a blessing and a curse, right, double-edged sword. Like I loved what psychedelics did for me, but I'm done with the ayahuasca conversation, I'm done with the conversations about like plant medicines in general, because it really showed me this dark part of myself. I was throwing up in a bucket in 20 at late 2019 actually, I was throwing up in a bucket and I saw a little baby's face. Now it wasn't my son's face, but it scared the shit out of me so much that I was like, wow, I need to stop these certain addictions that I'm still struggling with. I was still struggling with some addictions at the time. No way. Does this correlate with you changing the name of your business and reshifting? Man, it's been a death and rebirth. You know, like how the snake sheds its skin? Well, that's been me. Like I'm a really different person now. Like I used to seek a lot of approval and I think a lot of that came from me having a broken relationship with my father, which, you know, that's still unraveling and I've done a lot of work on that, like vision quests and deeper breathwork journeys and just like conscious relating and trying to figure out what was it really that fueled me to be quote successful? What was it really that fueled me? And when I look back, it was like this vacuum of like not feeling good enough, not necessarily having the right fatherhood instilled in me. And so now I'm in this place where I'm like, OK, let me do this from love. What are what are the what are some of the things that you experienced from fatherhood as a kid that now being a father yourself, you want to do different? Wow, how much time do we have? You know, I would say like the the number one thing that I got in contrast from my dad was he didn't have emotional intelligence, which is why I fucking love what we do. I love the ability to have long form conversations and really unpack stuff and like the art of debate and we've lost that, you know. And so my dad's generation, they they didn't do that. They didn't sit and really go back and forth about things with one another. They had their viewpoints and you either believe somebody or you demonize them. And I would say the greatest gift in the contrast I got from him was like not getting my heart fulfilled, not getting conversations where I really felt connected to a dad. And so now with Nova, I'm already like I'm already reading him books and I'm telling him, this is why daddy does this. I'm I'm over explaining things where like, you know, I didn't get explanations when I was a kid. And so in a way, in a beautiful way, which takes a lot of maturity for all of us as men, you have to see the vacuum that was created for you. You have to see the painful contrast that was created for you to make meaning of it all to understand that like, wow, if you didn't experience that dark shit, how would you ever know how to give love and light to your son and to yourself? How would you ever know you wouldn't know? I mean, it doesn't have to be that way. You can get a lot of love and light and then you can give that to your son too. That's just the meaning that I create from it. Now, have you have you figured out how not to overcompensate for the things that we didn't get, right? So we have somewhat similar stories with the father thing. And like, because I didn't have my father from most from seven on. Yeah. And so, of course, like you, we have this in common where I think I knew one day I would be a father and I think I was this whole, my whole life was preparing for that. And then now, boom, I'm thrust it into it. My son's three years old right now. And I want to thank you. And I want to think of all the things that, you know, I didn't get. I didn't have and sometimes I catch myself and I have an incredible partner to, I think, you know, show me this sometimes is I don't also want to overcompensate for what I didn't have or like force that. So do you find yourself trying to find that balance? Yeah, I think the way that I overcompensate is like, if I'm not making this amount of money, then I'm not enough. And so the overcompensation is like, I have to have the best shit, the best truck, we have to live in the best neighborhood. And like that doesn't necessarily make my woman or me happy. So I have to really be mindful of that because I came from welfare, dude. I was born in a section eight housing and like government cheese and no vegetables and like it sucked. It sucked. And I'm not a victim like it was what it was. But yeah, I really, I got to this place with myself recently this year, where I was like making more money and me working harder is not necessarily going to make our family better. It's not going to make me actually spend more time with my son. I spend less time with my son. I think it's a bit of a bell curve, right? Yeah. I mean, obviously being able to provide for him and stuff like that. I think there's, there's, and we like to take trips and do things and that costs money. So, yeah, so I definitely think there's some value in, in having that motivation and discipline to provide for the family like that, but then there does become this point where, okay, our needs are met. And then at what point do you go realize that like, oh, the more I spend trying to keep stacking this, these chips or getting more, it might take away from him. You know what you brought up from me right now? My dad was always like work hard, like and that's a good thing. I think we all should work hard, but there's also working smart. There's working intelligently where you can like leverage affiliates and leverage business to where you're making money while you sleep. And that's actually the most intelligent dad is to be able to make money without him sweating from his brow all the time. And, and that's actually the world that I love and that I'm really mastering is like, how do I make money when I'm sleeping? Because then when I'm awake, I can spend time with my son and with my woman. Like, that's, that's a life worth living, dude. Yeah. It's the, you know what it is, is that there's actual, I mean, there's real value in, in struggle, but I think as men we can sometimes, and this happens with, I think with women too, in many ways, we value the struggle so much that if it doesn't feel hard, then you're not working hard. You know what I mean? Like if I'm not like sweating and like stressed, am I really working hard? And it's like, well, here's a deal. Like you're going, it's going to be like life is going to be hard no matter what work is a means to provide this, these basic needs that you need. Life's going to be hard no matter what, but can I, can I leverage like you say, can I leverage work so that these meet needs are met so I can challenge myself with these other struggles in ways that are more productive? Also, we have to be careful to not identify with being an overcomer or a hard worker so much that, that becomes an identity where I just keep attracting like I don't, I pray actually a lot. And my relationship with God has transformed since becoming a dad because I saw God in my son's eyes. It was fucking wild. Well, when did this happen? Y'all know when he was born or when he was born, y'all know what happens when you hold your son for the first time. It's almost like that Kurt Russell movie where you go through the portal. Yeah. And when you come out on the other side, it's like, so you are fun cellularly, Stargate. Yeah, you come out a different man, a different human being because there's no world that existed before. It's only the world that exists now. And when I held him, it was like this. And I get it on a cellular level. Like there's lots of dopamine and oxytocin going, I get all the heady shit, but like on a soul level, there's something that words can't describe when you see your son and when you or your daughter and you hold them for the first time. It's more than just words could describe. And that for me is like, wow, I can't even really put it into words. Like it makes me. It was the most selfless moment of my life. Yes. I didn't realize how truly selfish I was until that moment. That's a good way to put it. Because for the first time in my life, like something truly was more important than myself up into that point, as much as I love my partner, I love my family, I love all these other things, nothing I think ever transcended beyond me until that moment. And feeling that like, oh, shit, like that's weird. And it reshaped immediately how I thought about almost everything. Yeah. Money, career, friendships, relationships, how I act, the way I present information, like literally shifted how I thought about all those things, because now I'm thinking about this life and like, oh, how's he going to receive that? Or how is he going to look at the way I treat his mother? Oh, how is he going to look at how hard I work and how much I work? Like all of a sudden it like reframed my life. And like up until that, I mean, I'm 41 now. Up into that, you know, 38 years, I never, ever even thought like that. It was always, you know, selfishly motivated, even if I thought or said, I had no idea, no idea. All right, everybody. Here's the giveaway for today's episode. The RGB bundle maps, anabolic mass performance, maps, aesthetic. Here's how you win. You leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Helps us with the YouTube algorithm. By the way, that's why we do this. Um, also subscribe to the channel and turn on notifications, do all those things. And in the comment section is when we'll notify you if you won the RGB bundle. Now everybody else, there's two days left for the cyber Monday sale. That's 60% off across the board. All maps programs, all maps, program bundles, 60% off of everything with the code cyber Monday for the discount. You got to go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and you have to use the coupon code cyber Monday for the 60% off discount. All right, here comes the show. You know, it was weird for me with my first, maybe that maybe this happened to you when I had my first, I remember when my, my, at the time, my wife was pregnant, it's like this idea, like, yeah, there's a baby in there. You know, she's already connected, right? The baby's already in there. She feels, you know, him moving and she's, and I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm getting in the kind of trying to get myself in the dad space and, you know, but we don't, we're not really connected yet. Not like that, like mom is, right? Cause we're visual, men are visual. Yeah. And not just that, I don't have a growing baby inside me. Right. So I just see what's happening. It's like, okay, you know, I'm, I think I'm ready. I, you know, and then he was born and it was like, boom, it hit me. I was like, holy cow, like this is really weird. And then I tell the story all the time, um, when he was, I don't remember how old he was, seven months, eight months old, we're sitting on the couch and we're watching Finding Nemo. And there's a scene where Marlon, the dad loses his son because that, you know, and he's chasing him and I'm like crying. I'm like, what the hell is happening to me right now? Why am I crying watching this cartoon? It's the, it's the craziest growth experience ever, which also means it's probably one of the hardest things. Did you have something similar? Yeah. I mean, I haven't cried on Finding Nemo, but I just watched actually on the plane over here, I watched the new Tom Cruise, you know, the top gun movie. Fucking cried during that. I don't know if it like brought me back tonight. I had a little almost fighting back. No, it brought me, actually, you know, I was reflecting on this and it goes to your, to your question. Like my grandfather was the first, uh, Italian-American to be a general in the Marine Corps. I didn't know that. Yeah. And they gave him the key to the city. Pasek, New Jersey. Wow. So, but he came, I mean, I have deep love and respect for my grandfather. That's funny. He's been gone for 20 years and I'm sitting here on your podcast talking about him. Like, um, but the reason is, is because he did the best he could in the time he was born. And there's like a deep love there that lasts, you know, I still feel it now. And to your question, like, I really feel like Nova will learn so much from me that I can't even, I can't even connect to or understand yet. Cause I don't even know the person I'm going to become. To give him that love yet. So I think about that kind of stuff where I'm like, huh, finding Nemo, all these movies, they bring up emotions in us, but it's really just because we haven't even loved to the degree that we can love yet as fathers. And so when you cried, it was probably because it was activating a part of you that, that you didn't know was there and I've definitely had that happen. I mean, it just happened on the plane. Like it wasn't necessarily about my son. Uh, if I were to reflect on my, my relationship with my son, what makes me cry? You know, he was, um, a couple of months ago, I got up in the morning and he just started like walking at 11 months and he was by this air filter. We have this big air filter in our room and I got up and he was like standing by the air filter and he was just feeling the breeze on his face for the first time, like for the very first time in his life, he was feeling the breeze on his face and that made me cry, like that made me cry because we're like, wow, it's such a simple thing to like watch my son feel the breeze on his face for the first time and it was so fucking beautiful. Like, uh, yeah, like those moments, right? Like they bring up emotion in me because children, children come into our lives to remind us about all the amazing things that we've forgotten that are so pure and so simple, but, um, the logical mind likes to cover that up. So talk, talk about the, uh, the dynamic. This is, this is an interesting conversation selfishly for me because we're maxes at three. Um, and so we've had some, some, I don't know. I can't believe he's three already. I know bro, it's flying. It's flying. Do people say to you like the time flies thing? You're like, whatever. And now you're like, whoa, you know, I, I, you know, I think I've tried my best to be very mindful. I, I spend a lot of time with him. Um, but I, so I, I kind of know that, right? A lot of people have told me that. So I do a really good job of staying present of making sure that I do these like traditional things with him. I read to him every single night. Like we have a routine when I get home every single day. So I feel like I'm not, I'm not ever missing anything, but it does, it goes fast no matter what. Yeah. But where I'm heading is that what I think is interesting and you're at 16 months, I guarantee you've already had some of these things is, you know, raising a child with a partner, um, who had a different childhood than you had and has different things that are probably important to her that. So talk a little bit about navigating that. Like I'll give you an example, start you on something that, uh, has been an interesting one for Katrina and I, Katrina comes from a house like just full of love. It's just, I mean, everybody hugs and kisses you goodbye, very similar to Sal, Sal understands this, like his big family is like this and everybody's there. They make a decision in the family. Everybody gets together and like, like love is the answer for everything. And I love that. And I, my son is getting an abundance of that. I come from this, like I went through a shit storm to get to where I'm at, but I also appreciate that because I know that all that adversity that had overcome built resilience in me, made me into the man that I am today. And I want my son to have some of these characteristics and attributes. So I know I have to manufacture adversity because he sure as shit is not going to grow up anywhere close to what I was like. But then also that's the whole point of me, you know, working hard is that he doesn't have to go through that. So trying to balance that. So I tend to be trying to manufacture adversity in my, you know, one year old's life and my wife's over here going like, the fuck are you doing? All he needs is love right now. That's, that's, that's a challenge we have of back and forth a little bit. Have you faced some of this already? Wow. I have to tell you, like, yes, he has this thing right now where he has these tantrums. And so I, it was the other way around where I came from, uh, my mom's side of the family was very loving. Like we were at the Sicilian side. So it was like, we wanted to talk about things, we wanted to process things. We wanted to sing and dance and connect my dad's side, just like English, stiff upper lip, like we're not going to talk about our emotions. We're actually just going to lead a life of avoidance the whole time. And so I actually feel like in a beautiful way, man, I got a blessing from having that contrast where it was like dark and light, you know, heavy and heavy and light on each side. So when it comes to Nova having these fits, there's a part of me where I like want to run to him and hold him and be with him. And Carrie Michelle, um, she came from a family that was very broken. Lots of stepdads coming in and out. Uh, she has more of a tendency towards avoidance, although she wouldn't, maybe she wouldn't say that. She's probably say independence. Independence is a good way to say it. And I'm, I'm more of like, if you look at, um, some of the work on attachments, I'm more of the anxious style of attachment. She's more, she's more of the avoidance. So, so that's my work is to like be in the secure. And so is hers, which is honestly probably why we attracted each other because like peanut butter and jelly go good together. Even though they're different. So with Nova, um, he'll freak out. He'll cry for like five minutes. And so she'll stand by him and she'll say, I'm right here, babe. I'm right here. You know, he's changed. He's fed. He's, everything's good. He's safe. And sometimes these kids, they do this, um, where they just cry to get your attention. I don't, we don't want to reinforce in his brain. That's, by the way, connecting more than a million synapses a day, which is so wild to think about. Oh, a baby's brain. I just had this guy on my show and talked about it. Yeah. Oh my God. So, so it's hard because like the, the nurturer in me wants to like hold him and be like, I got you. I got you, my son, like you're okay, but then also the father in me is already coming online to be like, you're okay on the ground screaming, mom and dad are here when you're done. Like we got you when you're done. We're here for you when you're done. So that's been really hard. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, because there's like this response in me to like hold him, but there's also the father in me that's like, you know, I'm right here, you're safe, you're okay, which is probably what I'm going to have to do for him at multiple ages as he goes through his maturation process. Yeah. Oh, totally. You know what it is, my wife's really good at that is she explains it really well. She's like, he's just learning how to deal with emotions. Yes. That's all. It's just, it's just stuff he's never felt before. And as they get older, they, they start to get new emotions and new feelings and it's just coming out. And as long as they're not hurting themselves or hurting other people, like they have to be able to process through them while simultaneously knowing mom and dad are not going to chastise you for it and they're there. And that's about it. She doesn't really jump also not save you and rescue you every time you do that because then you reinforce that behavior. Exactly. Not just reinforce the behavior, but make it feel like it's a dangerous scary thing. Like screaming and yelling when you're, look, there's way worse ways he could process his emotions. Right. So one, it's very appropriate. And again, this is my wife's really good at this. She's like, it's really appropriate for a young person that age to express themselves that way. And if we rush to them, we make, we reinforce that it's bad. It's scary. And this is not how you should be acting, which can actually make it worse rather than, you know, have your feelings, we're over here and it's all good. And then when you're done, you know, come on over. So she actually does this thing with my son because he'll, he's, he doesn't throw full on tantrums. He hasn't yet, but he'll get where he gets really, really mad or scream or whatever. And now he'll stop because she's done this with him. It's so good. And he'll, she's done this with him. Let's breathe together. Okay. Oh my God. I love that. And I'm like, I saw this the first time I'm like, he's one and a half. You got him to do that. Like you're the best, you know, because I want to do what you do. I'm like, let me save you. Yeah. From how you feel right now. You know, it's cool. There's a book called Belly Breathe that I bought for my son because we were chatting a little bit about breath work. Dude, read that book to your kid. It's called Belly Breathe. Okay. Is it a kid's book? It's a kid's book. Oh, it is. But it uses like animals to teach kids how to breathe. Like, are you stressed? Are you hungry? Are you having big emotions? Yeah, which is really cool. Let's belly breathe together. See the elephant belly breathe. See when you're upset. Belly, belly breathe. So that's a really good resource. I've, I've read him that multiple times. I have a similar one, but it's everybody poops. Animals, examples. Hopefully if you're pooping right, you're breathing right. Otherwise, you're. We have this one. We have this one. I think it's called I'm So Mad. And it's about this little kid. It's like a little character that just gets really, really mad. And so you're just like, you're talking about the feeling of anger and what that looks like and, you know, what's appropriate around it. So these, these books are really valuable. You know, you, when we first met you, you were your show, your podcast, the work you did was very much around growth. It was always from day one, very much about growth, growth as a human, personal growth, business growth, whatever, just growth. It's still that way, but it's different. Yeah. Like what's, what are the big differences now? Well, you were heavy, heavy tech. When you were, you were heavy. Yeah, I was hosting panels at CES and deep in that world with Justin back in the day. Yeah, man. Um, and that's great because everything we do is an amalgam of who we are today. And so it's, it's all good. It's all experience. But I will say that I was really just in a place of trying to figure out whatever my audience or the market wanted and kind of scrambling instead of what fucking Josh Trent really wanted to do from his balls, from his root chakra. Like, what do I want? Because I'm just going to do that. And it's going to be more light and free and people are going to like it or not. And so, um, we actually did a small mushroom journey. Carrie and I on New Year's Eve, 2021, and I had been feeling for like a year, you guys, you know, my, the show wellness force, that name force, it has an etymology of like constriction, like the word force. You can't trust it. It's like a fucking stallion or a, a tsunami or something like force is really powerful, but it's not trustworthy. The word force. And if you look at Hawkins work, power versus force, he talks about the real difference between power and force. Power comes from a place that there's trust and there's vulnerability and there's leadership force comes from a place where you're just trying to coerce someone else to do whatever it is you want them to do. Tyranny, like what we're experiencing now with a big fucking theater, the health theater. So, so I'm, I'm reminded of this because I just turned to her and I was like, babe, I just feel out of integrity. I don't feel like my brand is who I am anymore. I'm just like, not myself. I don't feel good. And she's like, well, why don't you just replace the word force with wisdom? And I thought, oh my God, like you ever have one of those moments where like something just locks in and you're like, that's it. Like that was it. So I, you know, that name was already taken. So I, I really thought about what is it that I do and who is it that I am in the world? I've always had this question since 2015 when I started the pod, like, how do I live my life? Well, how do I actually live my life? Well, and that came from a sincere place because that was a question I was trying to answer for myself and just share that question with everyone else. And really on the path, like having mentors like Scott Jackson and Paul check and just all of our, our homies in this world, like, I really started to feel like, wow, I'm integrating a lot of this knowledge and it is who I am. Now, therefore I am wiser. I have more wisdom. So wellness and wisdom is the podcast. And I thought about like, okay, I took Paul's model of the quadrant mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, and I actually added financial to it. And I created my own model, which is the wellness Pentagon. And the Pentagon is what we all signed up for here in the world, dude, if we're not nourishing those five things on a regular basis, we're not going to be healthy. We're not going to be available for our children or women or just or even the women listening for our men, anyone. And so that's been the biggest shift. So I was like 222 222 this year. I just picked the date because it was cool and it seemed like a very spiritual thing to do. So I'm very 22nd this year. I changed the podcast. We rebranded everything completely and let wellness force die. And when I when I let go of that, it was like, fuck, it just feels good to be myself. It feels really good to just be Josh Trent here in the world and not have to like do what I think other people like, instead of just doing what the fuck I like. Now, how is it? How is the content changing? Do you find that you are seeking different types of guests or you're talking about different topics? Like how is that evolving? You know, it's cool because when I became a father, I started to be more interested in the parent conversation, the conversation of being a parent to my son, but also dude, the conversation about how to parent the child inside of me that needs healing still or maturation still in his own way. And so that's been a really big focus is like, how do I get as many people on the podcast that are talking about how to be a great mother or father, even if you don't have kids, because you're all mothering and fathering something, even if it's not a child. So that's been a really big shift for me. And I've loved that. And what's been cool is now that I have this, this teaching model that I have for my students in the Breathe program and just in general, I really love talking about the financial equation too, because like we were chatting about, if I'm not making enough money to support my family, well, then I'm going to be pretty stressed out and not be present with them because all I'm going to be doing is worried about money. So I think part of wellness, you guys, a huge part of wellness is actually having the faculty and the intelligence to earn money in an integrity based way, but also do it in a way where it's like, it's fucking monopoly. We're in a game. Let's just have fun with this thing. Like and not allow money to be such a, I was raised in an environment where money was so heavy, you know, it was such a like torrent conversation where it was like, oh, we got to talk about money again. And it's like, it doesn't have to be that way. We can talk about money and actually have it be a fun conversation now. Like money is energy and whether you're spiritual or scientific, money's energy. It's just, hey, I'm Adam, I'm going to pay you a hundred bucks or I don't know how much those shoes cost. They look expensive, 300 bucks for these shoes. And then you're going to it's a bit more than 300. OK, a full bitcoin for the sneakers. So so I'm, you know, I'm really I'm really loving that conversation, dude, like how do we how do we fill and nourish all those things in a way that that serves us and the people we love. You know, it's funny around that is I remember when I learned this is a car. I was must have been 1819 and I watched this little video on money and they talked about how people used to trade before money was invented, right? So you had chickens. I had, I don't know. Oh, yeah, the old school barter system. Yeah, I had, you know, let's say it like, you know, wooden tools or something like that. And you want tools. I want chickens we trade. But what if I want chickens and you want a wagon and I don't make a wagon? Well, you and I can't do business. So money just represents trade and allows people to trade with each other, whether they have something of value that the other person wants or not in a physical way. But what you're talking about is just health. It also allows you to buy time, which I think is one of its most most valuable assets. That's it. To me, that's what I've learned about that making more and more money to me is useless. If you waste it on things all the time, you don't utilize it to gain back time because that is finite. That is something that we don't get back. And so if I can find ways to leverage business to free up more time or make more money so I get more time, that is to me that the real secret sauce of like wealth and getting more money. Did you find changing your pot? Did you notice a market response that was different? In other words, I've never made more money. Wow. See, that's great. Of course. It's fucking awesome. It's like you went with your heart. You know, actually, Justin, remember back in the day, you were like, why do you plan so much for podcasts? You remember telling me that? And he's like, he's like, don't listen to me. Terrible advice for you. But anyways, I can't believe I said that. Everyone, everyone that I that I am homies with in the podcast game, like I always take a little nugget of from everyone. And so I was sharing with you, Adam, like, you know, at Vorey, shout out to Vorey three, three, four years ago, you were like, why don't you have a program yet? And I actually that was part of the genesis of why I have the Breathe program now. And I remember you telling me in Vegas, you're like, why do you plan so much for these podcasts? And I was like, because I want to make sure it's the best conversation. And I'm getting all the value from the person. Super detailed just for for sure. You had like everything out, like all the bullet points, the research. I mean, it was a lot of work you put into it. But we do really good show notes. And anyways, the reason I'm saying that is because there's a there's a part of that that was the old representation of that word force, where if I'm going to interview Sal or Justin or Adam, I got to make sure I know their fucking family history. I got to know where they were born, what kind of sweater they wore in high school. Like, you know, I got to know all this shit. And it's just not the case. It's actually, and this is for all of us, a hyper control or hyper preparation is actually a lack of trust in self. That's interesting. I think the there's a balance between how to because there's something I would say that I would argue that we we learn from you seeing that I think you were one of the most prepared people when it came to interviewing. And I think you were one of the best interviewers that we had met at that time. And so I think there's some value in it. But I do agree with what you're saying because then there's something with just being curious and genuine with like the way the conversation is flowing like the one that we're having this year that we're having right now is very authentic and real and not steered by a bunch of notes. So I do think there's like this kind of happy, happy medium of engaging when there's interest there. That's just natural, right? But at the same time, if you do put the preparation in, it allows for moments, if you're flexible in the conversation, you can, you know, have a little bit more content to put into it. But I do, I do. I guess my my thing was that I felt a little rigidness, I think, probably when we talk sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate that because honestly, that was the old part of me that the force in me that was really seeking wisdom. I just I was seeking wisdom, but I didn't trust myself enough to hold it yet. Yeah. So I had to like honestly, calm down. Yeah. Slow down, calm down. Like, what does it learn? What do you what does it look like to learn how to trust yourself? I think it looks like your life and people around you slowly pulling apart. Yeah. And then one has to be self-aware enough and have the really the intuition built to know, OK, the results of my life aren't what I want them to be. How much ownership can I claim for that? How much ownership can I claim for the people and the things that I love, even my business pulling apart and pulling away from me? Instead of just, oh, well, I'll work harder. Boom, push the gas pedal down. That shit doesn't work. That shit doesn't work. So there's there's this like it's such a fucking duality in this world. Totally like providing takes effort and sweat and being present also takes like the space in order for you to do that where you're not occupied by providing the whole time. 100 percent. Yeah. It's it's you know, we do really was what human I guess behavior tends to do is we tend to look at a challenge and we go one extreme to the other. So like one extreme is extreme structure and rigidity. And the other extreme is total what you would say freedom and no structure at all. But the truth is yes, if you want the most freedom and creativity, there's a balance between the two. You have to have some structure, but you don't want to be so structured that it's oppressive and tyrannical. You're talking about the Goldilocks zone. That's it. Not too hot, not too cold. That's right. That's raising kids, by the way. You look at the data on raising kids. Yeah. The most successful households are the ones that are filled with love and structure. The least successful households are the ones that are filled with structure and no love. And the one in the middle is love with no structure. Right. But you get a lot of structure with no love whatsoever. And that comes out as terrible consequences for Terry and just do you guys all have heard of maybe studied Alan Watts. OK, he was famous for letting his kids just be totally free. No structure. Like one of the greatest philosophers of our time, by the way, I fucking love Alan Watts. If there was one person, I'd love to know what y'all think. Who would you interview that is dead that you wished just for like an hour you could sit with and talk to? Alan Watts is my guy. And he was close to here. Sal Salido, that's where he lived. And anyways, his kids were known for that and they actually got kind of fucked up a little bit because he was like, he didn't have that love and structure. Yeah. So I'm like, OK, how do I do that for my son and my family and also my baby on the way, which is like the first time I'm talking about. Congratulations. Yes. Do you know, do you know what it is? No, this time we're actually not going to know. Oh, on the second one. So I did that with the first I mean, I want to know. But Karen Michelle is like, I want to do it my way this time. And I'm like, go for it. But I got you, you know. Can I ask you so I'll ask you quite you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. We can edit it out. I mean, we're on mind pump. I love you about that. So yeah, did you guys are you guys doing the conventional Western medicine hospital birth? No, we're not. That's a huge talk. Let's talk about that. We do a pod on just that, bro. OK, this this was a life changing moment, paradigm shattering moment for me for real. It was on our podcast. We did a podcast early days and I made a comment something along the lines of childbirth was one of the greatest killers of women throughout history. Super dangerous, blah, blah, blah, blah, and this midwife sent an email to us and she's like, I've delivered over. I remember she said thousands of babies. That's a huge myth. That's not true. She actually showed the data, showed how childbirth became dangerous when we started forcing mothers. Yeah. And then we didn't understand about, you know, germs. Anyway, and it blew my mind. And I said, well, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then I watched the business of being born, which I'm sure you watch. You got to watch that and American circumcision. Have you all seen that? No, no, no. No. So did you guys? So did you guys have the first one? Like, no, no. So Carrie is very strong about free birthing and free birthing is basically where you just had the baby in the most natural way without intervention of any kind, which like in the beginning, like I had to really and that's that's a big part of like my maturity is where you scared. I was scared as fuck because my paradigm was like, oh, you have the baby in the hospital. That was just what I thought. Yes, you too. But with all of our education around and our awareness around like the broken model of pharma, insurance and medical and all the things that we know, I don't know why I never made the connection of like, oh, well, that's probably corrupted too. I don't know why I didn't think about that. It's just out of sight, out of mind, you know? So so when, unfortunately, like we we had everything planned to have a home birth and unfortunately didn't work out that way. We had to go and have an emergency cesarean, which is like 40 percent or more of women, by the way, have. Isn't that wild? It's wild, but it's actually because and a good resource on this is my buddy, Nathan Riley. He's an OBGYN that helped us when we were in the NICU. He actually was the one that delivered Paul Czech's baby delivered Zoe. Oh, OK. And so Paul connected us with him and he helped us when we were in the NICU navigate a crazy world. Honestly, it was fucking terrifying to say the least 10 days in the NICU. It was very traumatizing to her and I both. So we don't we don't want to have that anymore. So it's actually like in total honesty, her and I being in more harmony about the birth process, her and I being in harmony, which is essentially looks like me supporting everything and anything she wants to do because it's her body and she's the one birth in the child and there's nothing for me to be afraid of if I trust in the mystery of God. Also, I'm so glad. I mean, you said that so well. Also, the adrenaline fear. Yeah, stop the process. They stop the process. I mean, where the baby comes out. I mean, you can almost classify it as like almost like a sphincter muscle that it's true. Like, yeah, if you get scared. Shit gets tight. It restricts. It just does. And in nature, you're giving birth and something scary happens. Totally. You got to stop giving birth and get the hell out. Right. Right. So watching that whole process of the hospital, you know, oh, this happens to so many. You guys had to do hospital or so. So the we were going to do a home birth and she went two weeks past and the law says you can't. Isn't that fucking crazy? It's ridiculous. And we experienced. We literally experienced the sequence of intervention and how each one intervention leads to the next, leads to the next. Like we got there. She's in labor. Obviously you show up, fill out this paperwork, hook you up to these machines, test you. Oh, labor stopped. Well, yeah. Of course it did. You just she's now out of that space and she's kind of like a little afraid of what's going on. The anxiety starts to raise. We went home, went back. It's not moving along fast enough. Oh, let's throw some Potosin, which causes much stronger, much harder to bear contractions. Are they mentioning the fetal heart tones and all that too? So we're doing that and it hurts like crazy. Oh my God. And they're testing her and testing her. Oh, you went backwards. The cervix actually starting to close a little bit. Now look now hindsight. Yeah, of course, did you terrifying my wife with all this stuff that you're saying to her? And then then at that point, the pain became unbearable because now she's out of that space and she's scared, epidural. And then, of course, you lose connection. What's going on? C-section. And I watched it all progress. I wasn't where I'm at now, where I was definitely with her, but I still had that a little bit of the fear of the scary stories and oh my God. And what do you mean the baby that, you know, this is slowing down and oh, get the baby out and who cares and whatever. Yeah. And so now what we're doing is kind of this happy medium. We're doing like a delivery center. So it's different than hospital. It's actually what they call a birthing center. Sorry. There's some nice plants and it's pastel colors. There's a bathtub and it's midwives, which are. Yeah. Those are the real, those are the experts at natural delivery. Sure, sure. So it's a different boy going through that process and looking at it's like women are treated like in medical condition when they're having a baby, which is not, it's not a medical condition. It's a natural thing. It's really interesting. I was getting healthcare for us and I said, oh, you know, she's three months pregnant. This is when we first got pregnant back when we lived in San Diego before we moved to Austin, by the way. And they were like, oh, it's a, it's a preexisting condition. And I was like, a pregnancy is a preexisting condition. I was actually pissed off. I was on the phone and I was like, what are you talking about? And she's like, oh, that's just how we classify it in the system. I'm like, do you know how fucking offensive that is? And I'm not, I'm not someone to get really offended. Like it is what it is if somebody doesn't like something. But to call a child a preexisting condition is a symptom of the sickness of our entire medical system. It's wild. Right there. That's a symptom of the sickness in our medical system. The way that people are treated like numbers and cattle and really non-human, right? And I think that is something that all of us need to like go 30,000 feet and look at from an intelligent perspective. This is what our world looks like right now. Do we have to follow this line of thinking? Do we have to keep going in this way? Or can we have more powerful conversations that actually shift it? It's literally, we're banging our head against the wall and we have a headache. And so we keep taking painkillers. Yes. And that's literally what the system is like. And I want to be very clear. I value and appreciate Western medicine. It has solved some of the biggest challenges that humanity's ever faced. However, like all systems, there's weaknesses in it. And it's terrible at treating chronic conditions. It is not preventative. It's not designed to. There's no market in the way markets work with preventative care. And what it does is it actually encourages symptom relief. And so the problems never get solved. So everybody's sick. There's always a surgery. You know what's funny too, you mentioned this as like in the fitness and health space where you never connected it to the, you know, to having a baby. Right. I didn't do the same thing, but I used to see it in the space that I was most familiar with. Like I get a client who'd come in and say, yeah, I have, what's that called? Carpal tunnel. Carpal tunnel surgery scheduled in three months. But I'm going to come here and do some strengthening and see what happens. And, you know, I don't know, 70% of the time they'd cancel the surgery. I feel better. I'm going to have knee problems. I need surgery or I need this medication or I need what's going on. And then we would exercise. And so long as it worked out and we were consistent, we would solve these problems through, you know, things that are largely free, right? Exercise, eating right, sleep. I remember I had one woman who just suffered from terrible anxiety. Okay. The solution literally was get off caffeine and get better sleep. Gone. It was gone for her. Now I'm not saying that happens for everybody, but do you think anybody in our medical system really, it's just not, I'm not saying people in our system are bad. It's just they're not, this isn't part of the business of it. They're not giving those tools. They're not taught that through school. Well, okay. Think about the fitness industry in general. The entire model is built on breakage where people sign up for the club and they don't come in. When I was an FM at the La Jolla 24-Hour Fitness, we would talk about that in our meetings. We would say, okay, this is our member base for this month and this is the projected attendance. We actually need to get the attendance down. And like the district manager would come by and be like, you guys have too many people coming to your gym. Isn't that crazy? And it was just like, what the fuck is going on here? And it's like the opposite of what we want. So the same thing applies to what you're talking about. You don't have customers that keep coming back for your product. If your product is dependent on their sickness, you just don't. You have to have people stay sick in order for them to keep coming back for your quote product. So if I break my leg, I love having a doctor there. If I'm really, really sick, I love Western medicine. But I would say 80-20 Pareto principle, 80% of why people go to the doctor quote, quote, is for shit that they could fix by just spending 20% of their own time on it, have a little garage gym, buy a cold tank, do these tiny things that maybe over the course of three months could solve whatever the fuck is ailing you anyways, if you would just put some loving intention into it. And it's easy for us to sit here because of the backgrounds we have and be like, oh yeah, you just do these things. But for the average person, they're like sitting somewhere in middle America. It's too daunting. Eating Cheetos and like not just completely unaware. So it's not to, I'm not sitting here to shame anyone. I'm not saying that anyone needs to feel shame or that I'm better than anyone because shit, man, when I was 18, 19 years old, that was me, I just didn't know. So how do we change this? I really feel like we have to have these conversations on such a grand scale. There has to be like this amplified. Imagine if this podcast was published across the nation and syndicated on Dr. Oz. This level of truth, this level of authenticity, people would feel it in their soul. They'd be like, wow, maybe I shouldn't eat the Cheetos. Maybe I should do something different. I think that's how we would, I think that's how we would change everything. Yeah, I love your attitude about it. What I think is, because it's no coincidence that during, historically, okay, this is recorded history. During the most prosperous time, we have more food available to us. People don't die of starvation in modern societies, at least in comparison to overeating, right? It's like way different, okay? We've solved a lot of our problems. We're getting everything we want, what we think we want. And it's no surprise that we're more depressed and more anxious than ever. Oh my God, this is such a good conversation. We're worse, we're getting worse and we're getting more of what we think we want. So my theory is it's gonna reach a breaking point. We're gonna get to the point where our innovation technology is gonna get so good where we're gonna have pleasure, food. I'm gonna have a pill I could take that keeps me looking good. I'm gonna have, all these things, these buttons I can push, I don't have to really exert myself. And then we're gonna be sad. And then we're gonna be like, okay, I give up. Maybe the answer is not in all this other stuff. Maybe it's in this old wisdom shit that was a lot of work, you know? Maybe that's what's going on. That's kind of my theory about it. I don't know, I hope you don't go too far. No, it's funny you mentioned that because this kind of falls in line with the whole technology conversation in general. Like, you know, I was so excited about breakthroughs and so excited about ways to present people with solutions for a lot of these like problems that we see like, oh, you can't adhere to this. Maybe we could just, you know, send you reminders and we can have an app to like really, you know, fit into your daily schedule and your lifestyle to get you on track and like do all these things and we can wear these things and it'll help to kind of, you know, motivate you and keep you going and just seeing how all of this has evolved and we have all the things. We have everything that we could possibly- And more. And then more and we're still innovating and the innovation isn't the answer. It's, we really have to reflect back and pull back and do a lot of intrinsic work and figure out how to really address a lot of these things within ourself. I don't think an app could ever truly train. I'm curious how you guys feel. I don't think an app could ever train our intuition. Like an app actually might blunt our intuition because it becomes the external locus of control instead of our internal locus of control where we need the quote mirror of mindfulness for us to have a faculty that makes the right decisions. And so I don't know if that's ever possible. Could an app make us intuitively stronger? I don't think so. Yeah, I think you would have to use it in a way to enhance the wisdom building process. So like, you could get a lot of information but that's not gonna give you knowing, right? So I could have tons of information, for example, for example, CGMs, right? Continual glucose monitors, like really amazing science. That is actually a pretty good one. Well, and here's why. Especially if you look at Rob Wolf and what he's doing with it. Yes, exactly. That shit's amazing. Yes, so let's say I have a continual glucose monitor. Amazing science. I could see how my glucose responds in real time to not just food, but emotions and behaviors and that stuff. Now, if I don't connect those to behaviors and actions and then don't work with my behaviors with that new information, it's nothing. It means nothing. And if I just become dependent on the button and the information, it really hasn't improved my health. It really hasn't helped me at all. So the information is good, but it doesn't guarantee at all that you're gonna become wiser or develop that intuition. That's how I feel about the psychedelic journeys like we talked about earlier. I mean, it can be amazing breakthroughs through it, but if you get so caught up in trying to chase the breakthroughs all the time and you don't actually put the work in, the message that you're receiving from it, you're just getting high. No doubt. I think so many people in our space fell into that trap of like- I did. Yeah, justifying it because they're getting breakthrough, breakthrough, breakthrough, information, information, information left to right. But it's like, no, the secret sauce is in what you do with that information. Dude, we were talking in 2018 about Bishop Barron and about Jordan Peterson. And I think you even linked me up with him. And so I must do a podcast with this guy because he said something that I think Jordan Peterson got from young and it was be careful of unearned wisdom. When it comes to psychedelics, be careful of unearned wisdom because that shit can bring you lessons that are so heavy, you might not have the emotional strength to carry them. 100%. And then you'll drop them and be like, that's not what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna run to another ceremony. I'm gonna go sit with Mother ayahuasca again and like, you know, be healed. Meanwhile, your ego already got scared of the lesson and the wisdom that it was brought to. And so it wasn't ready. It wasn't ready. We can't rush anything in life, man. We just can't. You know what's funny? We're making fun of our space a little bit, but here's why I like our space also. I've said this so many times. It's such an unassuming vehicle for growth, for personal growth. Psychedelics or? No, fitness. Fitness, yes. Yeah, because you're going into it and you're like, I just wanna look better. I wanna have nice biceps. I wanna be sexy. Now, if you quit, that's how you got out of it. Or you got nothing, right? But if you stay with it and you stay with it and you stay with it and you stay with it, eventually you're like, I gotta learn acceptance, struggle. Wow, that's where I get a lot of the value. Oh, wait a minute. Health isn't just about fitness and diet. I gotta look at the spiritual side too. And oh, there's health around how I treat my finances and my relationship. Oh my God, so if you stay on it long enough, you are forced. So that's why I think our space can be so funny because you see these fitness influencers who you can tell they're early in their fitness journey and then they get past the, they get past the, oh, it's just about how I look. And then they move to the, how I'm gonna have crystals and ayahuasca and, because they're seeking. It's natural progression. Yeah, they're seeking the growth, right? And so it's like this learning process. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. I'm like, cause I came from Encinitas. And you guys know where the Vori plate, like it is so hyper spiritual there. This is what, why JP Sears is so popular because he started making fun of how uber spiritual people are. And I love that because anytime that a movement of any kind becomes a zealot or a dogma, it's usually time to like let go of that in some way. And I really feel this when it comes to our spirituality conversation. How can we actually live a spiritual life? I think the only way we can live a spiritual life is to know God from experience. And I don't mean a bearded dude in the sky. I know you've had your journey with like Gnosticism and then even atheism at some point, right? So maybe y'all can talk about this too. Like God is such an overused term. I don't think anybody really understands what God is because they've never put in the sweat and the blood and the tears to truly actually know God. Like in order to know God or have a spiritual part of your Pentagon that I teach, like if you want spirituality, you actually have to know what it's like to meditate and pray and cultivate stillness. And all these things are not something you can get in a book or from an app or you actually have to really put in the time and the work and it only comes from experience, which is time, which is time. There's two things that moved me in that direction. And I've read about this too and I think it's so brilliant. The people, atheists tend to know more about spiritual practices and religions than people who just kind of like don't care, right? So you think if you're a real atheist, real atheists, they are actually searching. They're constantly searching and searching. That was me. I was an atheist and I was stout. I was like, this is what I, this is it. But I was always searching. I was always searching, searching, searching. That's what made me at first an atheist, but eventually you search hard enough and then you encounter certain problems with your beliefs and certain things. And we don't have to necessarily get into that, but that was one. And the second one was the things I learned in fitness apply to everything. What do I mean by that? What I mean is if you wanna lead a fit and healthy life, you can say, well, I value it, and it's definitely a good thing, but then you look at the person's practice and say, wouldn't you work out? Ah, I don't kind of when I feel like it, right? I don't know, I kind of don't or whatever. That's where you can tell, right? So spiritual practices require practice. They require routine. So for some people, that means going to church, praying on a regular basis. It requires a practice because you develop it. It's a skill like anything else. Knowing God requires that kind of practice where you make it a priority, not just, yeah, it's something I value. I can't understand how any man or woman could be an atheist and have a child. I really don't because the level of non-explainable emotion that one feels as a parent, I just don't see how it's possible to say, well, I created this being from all of these billions of processes inside of my body and it came out where I forced it through a hole this big and now the child is this big. All these fucking radical things. How could anyone not honor the mystery of that? And you don't have to call it God. You just ignore it. People ignore it and they accept the narrative. That's what it is. You just ignore it. Dude, the last thing I'll say on that and I really wanna know what you guys feel. Atheism, it's core argument is we don't know, right? We don't know, which maybe that's narcissism in some way too, but atheists are very like, no, there's no. So they're using the fact that there's no hardcore proof of God to not believe in God. Well, on the other side of that, I believe in God. I don't consider myself a Christian, but I consider myself a man of God. And it's because I've had experiences in my life that have given me proof, proof enough to know that God is real for me. But I find it fascinating that people who are atheists, their logical framework for the fact that there is no God is that they need proof for God to be real. So with that construct, they're actually denying the other side of it where if you need proof that God is real, how could you show me proof that there's not? It's the argument that it's like the snake eating its tail to the cart before the egg. Keep searching for the proof. Exactly. And eventually you'll run into the same problem I did, which is I had to become open-minded first though. And so to become open-minded required me to go, all right, okay, fine. I don't believe that there's a God. I think it's all made up, but I do believe in evolution. And what I mean by that is not just biological evolution, but a evolution of ideas. So I'm being a little arrogant if I think that I'm so much smarter and wiser than all of human history, right? All of human history. For thousands and thousands of years, this has been not just an important part of us. They've identified a God gene. There's a part of our brain that needs this. So I said, okay, there's some value here. So let me be open-minded and let me see what the value is. And then I look at successful societies, not just in terms of wealth, but like, you know, we talk about things like treating people a particular way. Like here's a crazy idea. This is really, this is the one idea that got me to go, all right, let me look at the value here. It is 100% unreasonable. It is unreasonable and unnatural to look around at everybody around you and say, we all deserve the same rights. We all are born with inalienable rights. We all deserve to be treated a particular way. That's a crazy thought. It's not reasonable. Look around. There's tall people, there's short people, there's strong people, there's wealthy people, there's poor people. There's smart people, dumb people. So what's more reasonable is to look around and say, yeah, I'm better than you. I'm gonna make you do what I want. Or I get this and you don't. And that's reason right there. So I said, where did that idea come from? Where did that crazy idea come from? It came from the idea of God. It came from the idea that God created all of us in His image, right? This is what the Judeo-Christians would say. And I'm like, that's a brilliant idea. That stood the test of time. Let me look at some of these other things that they say. And let me be open-minded because you obviously have some value. And that searching eventually took me to a point that you're gonna eventually reach with this, which is faith. At some point, you have to take the leap of faith. So at some point, you're like, okay, I've got all this evidence. The next step, this was the hard one, but the next step is okay, now I have to believe. Not at some point, you're already there. You either have faith that you believe the opposite. You have faith in both sides. That's true. So you're, because we can't prove either way. So you're actually no different. You're actually way more alike than you actually realize. That's such a good point. Here's the simpler thing for me. So I've obviously been in and out of church and religion my whole entire life. And of course, I grew up in the science community. Here's the most simplest thing that I put together. 41 years old, I've never in my life been a happy atheist. Yep. That's terrible. That's terrible, but I mean. It's a fucking truth. Even Sam Harris, there's like this. And I listened to Sam Harris. There's tension in him. He's so intelligent, but like, he's just unhappy. You could tell. Yeah. You can tell. Hella smart though. Yeah, yeah. And I listened to Sam Harris. I like some of his stuff, for sure. But just unhappy, dude. And even if they try and bullshit you, you can just tell by the women trying to explain themselves. So my entire life, and I've met a lot of them, or I've meet people that are staunch atheists. I mean, you weren't that staunch when we first met. I think you were on that journey, but then end up coming full circle afterwards. Now the thing that I think those people have to be careful of, because they drink the Kool-Aid the hardest. So they go so hard on one direction that as soon as their paradigm is shattered, then they become indoctrinated, or they can be just as vulnerable to becoming that dogma or that zealot that you talked about. So there is still this. They start to evangelize in a way that's not effective. That's right. You know what got me? He was up being around Bishop Barron and his team. And at that time I was pretty agnostic. In fact, I was very open about it. You guys went into his church? Yeah, we did. We interviewed him there. And they knew I was agnostic. I'm not Christian or whatever, but I have a lot of great questions. And he was open to just having the discussion. Well, oh, very much. This is what he does really well for the Catholic Church. He does this very well. But I met these people that were part of his team. And there was a priest, Father Steve, he's a good friend of mine now. And then there are people who aren't priests, but they're part of the team. And they were just like the nicest, best people. Just really, genuinely meet people, someone, and you're like, man, that's a genuinely good person. Everybody was just this genuinely good person. And that opened me up. They didn't come and hammer me. Nobody was pushing on me. It was just, they were just that. And that, you know, by the way, you wanna get people to ask this question all the time. How do I get my cousin to start working out? How do I get my mom to start working out? You don't go hammer them about it. You just be the example. You show them. You be the example. And then eventually, hopefully, oftentimes they'll come to you. And then you can help them out. I wanna say something about what Adam was saying where he was talking about that they're having faith on either side. It's so true because if you look at why people don't believe something or why they do, they're using the same logic system. It's the exact same system. So then the ultimate, the wiser question is, all right, well, whether I believe or not, what result is that bringing me? That's right. This is a big game and we're in potentially a hologram. We don't fucking know. Depends on how much we do smoke. Like we really don't know what's going on here. We make the meaning as we go along, right? So what meaning and what is the emotion? What is the benefit of me thinking in a certain way? Or what is the benefit of me having faith in a certain way? What benefit does that bring my heart and soul? Might as well choose the one that's better for you. You may as well just, if it's a game and on one side you're Sam Harris and you eat fucking oatmeal with a tight asshole or you're on the other side, you're someone that has like a family that loves them and you're able to express yourself and like you honor the mystery in things. You honor the mystery of God and things. There's just to me a clear path. It's not that my way is the right way or that our way is the right way. It's like, hey, it's whatever style, whatever floats your boat, y'all. If you wanna have life with that puckered, cool. And if you don't, that's cool too. It's just whatever you choose, what brings you the best benefit for you. Well, I think just logically, I think it was Jordan Pearson talks about like the hierarchies that form just naturally. And so we just create whatever is gonna put at the top of your hierarchy system, that's gonna be your God. It should be something unachievable in a sense. So that way, otherwise what happens once you get to the top of your system and you achieve that, like you lose all your purpose at that point. And to be able to have that just as a value system and have it be a moral guidance and something that's like, none of us are perfect. We all know that. There's no way you can be perfect, but why not try to strive and achieve in that direction? It helps you kind of steer your course a lot more effectively. You worship something no matter what. Yeah, that's right. You're worshiping something no matter what. And you have power, sex, whatever. And this is also why I think in my experience, all the atheist people I've met are some of the most unhappy because they inevitably, if they don't believe in God, they have chosen a different path where they think they would realize it or not, they're worshiping something else. Their actions show it. Money, power, you know. Honor, pleasure, those are the ones. All these things that they're chasing and what they real, and some of them spend a good amount of time trying to get to it, but the ones that do actually reach it, you find out they go, oh fuck, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be. And they're unbelievably unhappy and then still now floundering around and trying to figure out, oh, what do I chase now? And that's where I feel like you get the, even like the crystal chasers, like they're deep down, it's in us to seek that, you know? And I think the longer that you deny it, the longer you're gonna be unhappy, the more you're accepting and open to like, maybe I don't fucking know. Maybe I haven't figured it all out. Maybe I'm being a little arrogant thinking that I have. To go even more deep spiritual, maybe we can go in this rabbit hole or not. It's up to y'all. The Brahman is like this term that Alan Watts uses and it's to describe God or the all, the all. And he said that when you think you know Brahman, you do not, but when you think you don't know Brahman, you know Brahman. So when you're humble enough to know that like, I don't really know exactly what's going on and that humility plays out in my life, it actually affords me more peace when I have humility, but that humility is based on, I don't know what's going on truly. So instead of having mastery where it's like, I know what life is about, I know what this is about. It's like that's a very, that's a very forceful way of living. And I think we're caught up in a society now that is on our phones, like it's being monetized, like certainty is being monetized, attention is being monetized, and it just doesn't have to be that way. We can actually exit the fucking matrix for real now because we can make money and we can do all these things that our parents couldn't do. Do you think they feel, I think we feel some pushback too though. Like this is why I think like stoicism is making a way back. It's like, I know that I'm wise because I know that I know nothing, right? That's like one of my favorite quotes. And for that exact reason, right? I do agree that we are pushing this direction. So I'm the one is probably most optimistic of the three of us that I don't think we're gonna go into this deep abyss and I don't think we're gonna just demolish our society. I do believe the crazier we're getting, and I do think it is, this last few years has been very interesting, but I also find the opposing ideas and thoughts are starting to rise. I was just gonna ask you Josh, because you have these movements online, these online movements like no fat movement. These are young men, they're like, hey, stop watching porn. I think that's a great movement. But it came out with this abundance of free pornography. So it didn't come out from them being told, don't do that. There's, this seems to be this movement towards things like old philosophy, stoicism. Jordan Peterson, quite popular, Bishop Barron, I mean, is becoming quite popular on the internet among the young, among the youth. Do you think that this is starting to happen because people are starting to realize this? When you say realize this, what do you mean exactly by realize this? Like realize that they're not gonna get the fulfillment and happiness that they thought they would get because they're getting what they want. Yeah. Okay, we're set up in a construct where we're fighting the nature within ourselves. We're rewarded by variable reward, serotonin, dopamine squirts from our phones and from life in general. Like you can get food delivered to your house. You can get anything delivered to your house. You actually don't have to go get anything anymore. And I think in a way that fights our fundamental nature. Like if you look at Ray Kurzweil's work, right? And he talks about the technological curve. Well, in like 2009-ish, it went like this. Like the hockey stick of technology just went boom. But human evolution, it's still creeping along. So they were married for a while. And so now I think we're in a juxtaposition of we have no idea the power of what Kevin Kelly calls the technium. We have no idea about the true power of the technium. A lot of people actually think that the technium is God experiencing God's self through technology. There's some theories out there like that. Oh, wow. Which I think is fucking fascinating. Let's smoke some weed and talk about that. We should, we definitely should. So I think we're in that juxtaposition where, Justin's been saying that for a minute, dude. Hey, Skynet, that shit could definitely possibly happen. Have you seen the robots from Boston Dynamics? Yes. What the fuck is going on with that? Did you see that the Oakland police just got in trouble because they revealed that they have like robots or whatever, like law enforcement robots and they were gonna arm them with guns. No, thank you. Like, we've seen this movie. Like, do we skip a few steps? Like, you know, like, yeah, why give them guns? Just have them, you know, with cameras first. Okay, so to go back, I think that hockey stick went up. We're still creeping along. We're still like ancient knuckle draggers. If you look at our DNA, the Apollo groups and our DNA. They're the same. So I think at the core of your question is the answer itself that the nature inside of us needs to unfold at the pace it was meant to unfold. We are a huge experiment. This phone in my pocket and in all of our lives, we have never seen this in human evolution ever. We are the biggest guinea pig as to how this is going to unfold and generations that maybe my son's children will actually look back and be able to retrieve data and knowingness and awareness from. We're so in it right now as far as being the test subject ourselves that we don't have the wisdom yet. We don't have the lessons yet to reflect back upon and be like, wow, maybe we fucked up. Although the last thing I'll say, have you seen that meme with the teacher in the shop with the huge, fake breasts? It's a meme where it's like they're growing, they're growing. And then the caveman turns, the regular man turns around, he's like, go back, we fucked up. So there's a rumor about that guy. Do you know that it was actually a huge troll supposedly. So the rumor, so this is the last prevailing theory that I've heard on this and I can't confirm this completely, but it makes sense. Somebody who went to the school where this teacher's at and it started to come together when I found out like, this is the wood shop teacher. I remember in school. Don't those things get in the way? Well, listen, I remember in school, I mean, in general, teachers are liberal, like what, 80, 90% in most schools, right? But if I did have a conservative teacher, he was in wood shop or mechanic, right? That was like, so the wood shop teacher supposedly is hated by the rest of the staff. And they've been pushing kind of this woke ideology on him for quite some time and he's been kind of revolting. And this was him trolling all them was, yes. Is that a validated theory? So it's not, I hope it is. So it's from a student that goes there who says, I know this teacher. This is how he's been talking for you. He is not, this is not who he is. He's fucking with the staff and he knows they can't do anything and they're trying to transfer him out because they know they can't fire him. They have to support what he's doing. Please let this be true. I mean, I feel like it is because I smelt it right before we go. It's so absurd, it would kind of make sense. You know, it's weird. We're in a time now where we're all being gone. You don't know. The fact that we don't know is kind of crazy. It could be one or the other. You guys are like, this could be real. 20 years ago, 20 years ago. That's the crazy, you're right. That is the crazy part is that we're actually debating that this could be real or not. 20 years ago, I'd be like, that's obviously a troll. Who the hell would not fire a teacher for coming to school with big old sexual nipples poking out of it? Like that's not real. I want to keep us in the direction that you were going right now because you actually, when I get asked what's your greatest fear as a dad or what do you think about those? The thing I think about the most is my son growing up right now in this tech era. And how do I, and how do I not become the weirdo dad who like tries to hide a television from him and never let him use a computer and also integrate into where our society is naturally going, but then also recognize the power. Like I've read all the books. I've read The Unplugged, The Irresistibles, The I-Gens. So I have all the stats. The Irresistible was really good. Really good read, right? You turned me on to that. I think that I introduced that way. These guys used to make fun of me because I used to talk about it all the time when I first heard. That's amazing. It blew my mind when it first came out. I was like, and that was what really I think woke me up about where we were heading. And now that I have a son, of course, I think about it all the time. So how are you thinking about that right now? And how do you guys, I mean, he's a little young right now. Although this is, you're getting close to when, you know, it's nice to want to hand him the iPad to entertain him for an hour or so so you can mom and dad can get a break. So what does that look like for you right now? Wow. Well, we're never ever gonna get rid of social contagion ever. So we may as well just accept that. It's kind of like, you know, water is water. So we live in a world of technology. So I'm, instead of me trying to resist the energy of resistance towards tech, what I want to do is use that same social contagion model to make nature and climbing and physicality and all the good things about being a human being with a physical body, make that socially contagious. Because anytime I push against something, I give it fuel. I mean, you guys have heard this model before. Such a great attitude about this. Think about it. The same philosophy. You guys have definitely heard of this. Like it's easier to pull someone up when you're hiking rather than push them. It's much easier to pull because you're already on the higher ground. So if I'm on a higher ground of knowing that like you live in the woods, right? Okay. So I'm sure in the woods, there's trails, there's hiking, there's all kinds of cool stuff that you make fun. You just make it fun because that's what kids want. So if my son gravitates towards social contagion because that's the world we live in, rather than me trying to fight against technology, I make the other stuff on the other side so fucking sexy. Such great wisdom. So sexy that I don't have to have blockages on his tech and all that. And occasionally, look, I'm not perfect. When we go on super long road trips and he's really freaking out, only like Coco Mellon, only when he needs it. Only when he needs it. But it's not like mom and dad are lazy. No, it's not about that. Yeah, you know what we do? We use Mr. Rogers, Franklin, because they're slow, paced, like keep your attention versus the fast, choppy. My sister works in child development. She's like, oh, the modern stuff? She's like, pay attention to all the screen changes and cuts. I heard about that, yeah. And I was like, oh, shit, you're totally right. And I said, well, what's good? She's like, Mr. Rogers is great. You ever watched Mr. Rogers? Yeah. Watch it now. It's slow as hell. But on purpose, like that's what it's supposed to be. You know, there's two ways you could go about what we're going through with technology. You can successfully cut it out, but the only way to do that is to be surrounded by a society and culture that does the same thing. So you either become Amish. Amish, yeah. And you go live in a society where everybody- I'm down. I'm down. Let's try some buttery guys. Starting to look more appealing than I know. By the way, they are, a lot of those stuff that they're, I mean, this is no joke. I look at what they do and it's not for me, but I look at it and go, hmm, they figured out a few things. I think they might have been a bit wise to a few things. But either you do that or you use the strengths of what we're creating to overpower the weaknesses. So you said we've never had anything like this in history. We actually, the best, the closest thing we've had was the printing press. That's the closest, right? Yeah. All of a sudden, information and knowledge wasn't disseminated from nobles and those in power. You could get a book because it's cheap now. Back then it was so expensive. You couldn't afford it. It had to be handwritten. But all of a sudden with the printing best, the average person could buy a book and could read it. And so information became accessible. Now, what did that lead to? Some of the most tumultuous times, but it also led to tremendous growth and progress. I think the internet is doing the same thing. It's the same thing on steroids. We are, we have all this access to all this information. Floodgate. It's causing a lot of turmoil, but I think it's also pushing us to advance and progress at faster rates. Obviously, my fear is when we destroy ourselves before we get to the point where, but I mean- Is that a rational fear or is that an irrational fear? Well, we now have weapons that can actually do that. Like before we didn't, right? So that's my only, like, uh-oh, like only fear. But here's the bottom line. We're gonna move forward. We're gonna move forward. So we gotta move forward either way. And I think the positive side of me looks at it and goes, okay, yeah, my kid has access to all the information, all the crap, but also access to wisdom and art and discussion and debate and all kinds of things that before was much more, it would have been much more challenging. You know what's funny? At night, we have a ritual in my house. We always eat dinner together. I have two teenage kids and then I have the babies. And when you have teenagers, you'll see this. Right up until they're 10, they think you're cool. And after that, you're not cool anymore. And if you want to see your kid, you have to, like if you want to yourself do that right now, you'll see, he knows. My son won't be like that. You should. But you know, in order for me to really spend time with my teenage kids, it's like we have dinner every night. So it's super valuable, this is where we're at. And then afterwards we do dishes and my kids play music. And they might have a son that's 17, a daughter that's 13. And they play songs that they love. And I'm listening to the music that my 13 year old, my 17 year old are playing. And it's like music from the 70s, the 60s, the 50s, the 80s. When I was growing up, it's rock, it's hip hop. It's, and I'm listening to Don on me the other day. I'm like, this is so different. When I was a kid, you either liked rock or hip hop or whatever, why? Because we were exposed, like the only way you got music was you bought an album or you listened to the radio. And the radio there was limited bandwidth. So they played what was popular. So you just weren't exposed until you got into maybe college and got older. And then you learned about different types of music. So I'm like, well, that's cool. Like my kids have access to like all this music. And that's why my son is listening to the doors. And that's why he's listening to, you know, Nirvana and whatever. It's like he found it because it was easy to find and he values it and it's super cool. And he loves it. And he's so funny. He'll bring up a band to me and be like, do you like this? I'm like, I can't believe you're listening to the doors. Really? You like the door? Okay, I love them. Well, because there's something in it for them and what brings up rational fear for me with the music that's here now, like the mumble rap where it's like, I'm a bitch and I'm like, I don't even know how to do it. Dude, I can't even do it. Maybe that's how old I am. It's so funny. I'm having a moment that probably like I had with my dad or my mom where they were like complaining about the music and here I am complaining about young kids music. But anyways, I do think that a rational fear for me around the music now, if you look at like the Cardi B's and even like the little gnaws where he's dancing on the devil and there's just, there's an essence of demonic energy and of hardcore negativity, at least when like, you know, the old school rap artists came out, they were rapping from anger, but it was because they were wanting evolution and growth. They were wanting to like empower their audience. But this mumble rap and a lot of the music that's out there now, it's really about like hardcore hedonism, worshiping of the devil and worshiping pleasure itself with no consequences whatsoever. There was actually one song that came out where it's like, I got murder on my mind and it's this black artist, African-American woman dancing in front of a planned parenthood saying, I got murder on my mind, like glorifying abortion, glorifying it. And I think to myself, this is a product of the sickness of our society. We talked about the sickness of the medical system, this, the music that's out there, it's leaving us clues to be better humans, not just parents, better humans, like how do we get out of this demonic energy? I don't think it's by fighting it. Well, bro, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just like trip you out right now. Talking to father Steve who run, so every once in a while I'll text them back and forth. And we actually talked about this and he gave, he gave some examples. I'll give you one example. I don't know if you're familiar with Padre Pio. He's like this saint. He's a modern saint, you know, he died years ago, but in Italy he's like, he's like the saint, right? Like my grandmother walks around with a picture of Padre Pio or whatever. And there's this famous story with all these witnesses where he battled Satan in the room and got beat up and you know, there's marks on the wall and they've saved this room and people go and visit it, whatever. And so anyway, talking to father Steve and this is from a spiritual from the Christian standpoint. He says, the closer you get to God, the harder Satan comes after you. So in other words, if you're an agnostic, Satan's not gonna show up and provide evidence that he exists, that maybe God exists, but he's not gonna do that. He's gonna be very insidious and kind of sideways and sneaky. Now, if you know God and you're like, I believe in God, he's gonna, and at this last ditch effort, he's gonna show up and he's gonna physically fight you and reveal himself. I think the shit, the crazy side is getting crazier because we also have access to more of the good stuff. We do, we really do. So just as much as we see all this other crazy shit, you also have kids that are reading and learning about shit that like, what? Like stoicism is like something people are reading about and wisdom and spiritual, like that did, when I was a kid, nobody talked about that kind of stuff. It was, so I think what we're seeing is the extreme and the extreme and the extreme. So you can think of it from a religious standpoint and be like, yeah, the demons because they see that the other side is starting to grow as well or just human behavior. We tend to rebel and push in the opposite direction when things start to happen. I think it's more of that. I actually think it's a simpler, less scary environment. I do, I think that it's just the generation coming up will always rebel from the previous generation. It's just in our nature to do that. And I think that there is this movement to like rebel against the Christian white man and push against that. And so I think that we're just seeing an extreme version of that. I think it's also exaggerated because we now live in this world where we're all connected all over the world. I think it's probably been happening forever, but it happened in some weird small town with a group of 12 people that nobody gave a shit about, talked about or anything. We're now, they have the ability to get together, get on the internet, find the other 12 people, two states over to find the other 12 people. And now all of a sudden there's 10,000 of them when you sort of do that. And then that actually can be. Then you have a furry convention. Yeah. So I always try and pump my brakes when I get a bit alarmist about things and go like, okay, is it too? Is it just because it's in my face all the time and it just wasn't before? And is this partially just kids being rebellious and pushing in that direction? And do I just believe, and do I believe that this is this natural progression and evolution that we've swing the pendulum. We swing the pendulum really hard this way. Well, didn't you say the data now is showing that kids now are less on social, like the kids growing up now are less about social media than the ones before? It's becoming less cool. It'll work itself out. I'm kind of with you on that. And honestly, like how I see where society is kind of leaning is like, it's the social experiment of like, if we remove ourself from these like religious like institutions, like what can we create? And so you're seeing a lot of this postmodern effort in terms of like, where are our morals? Where are our values? And like there's a few of them out there that they wanted to proselytize and then get everybody on board. And it became the exact thing that they were pushing up against previous when they felt oppressed and felt like they weren't being heard. Now they want to do the same thing on the other end of the spectrum to push and oppress people down to make sure everybody believes it's this weird thing that it's like if I believe like with convection about something like everybody has to be on board with that. And you can force something. And it's like we just, we haven't learned the lesson yet. It just swung so hard this other way. And it's like, it's just interesting to me to watch as a spectator. There's one caveat to all of this to what all of us are saying. And that is since we've never lived in a time where the amygdala and the limbic system can be fucking hijacked in the way that it is now. We can't necessarily use the old model of, oh, well, kids just rebel. That's what they do. Because this new piece has been stuck in. Yeah, but don't you think that throughout history that there was always some wise guys sitting in a chair just like you saying that exact same thing that that this there's this new thing that is disrupting our species that we've never seen before. And there was protests when the car came out. People in horse and buggies were like, fuck. Right, right. The world is ending. So I mean, I believe that technology is that for, is our car, is our printing press, is our, you know what I'm saying? And it just for where we're at in our evolution. But I do think you make an incredible point by bringing up the radical hockey stick in comparison to. So it's happening at a much faster rate than it was before. Which the positive spin to that is that I want to believe that it'll correct the pendulum at a faster rate than it normally would do. That's my point. I'm right there with you. I have full trust that eventually the pendulum will come back around. The only thing that would make it stay in the hyper position for too long is the fact that data in the way that it's used by these large technical companies, I mean, we're right next door to them right here. The way that they can filter information and project information that is perceived truth, we actually haven't been in that type of a situation before. So an example of like when the horse and buggy got replaced by the car, people were revolting. Well, what was the most negative ramification of that? The most negative thing that happened is that people got to places faster and there was more accidents, right? That's kind of it. We don't know. We actually just don't know the negative ramifications in their totality of technology when we compare it to the horse and buggy. I'm with you. And also we, okay, us sitting here right now, we may live till 190. And so we're looking at all this and be like, it'll be okay, okay. Okay, takes a thousand years sometimes. So yeah, I think a humanity is gonna be okay. When I get a little worried about, it's just a little bit, yeah. Us and our kids, they're gonna have to live. That's it, when I get worried about, it's my kids. So I go back to, I think it's gonna move faster because of that, because of what you're point. I think here's the thing, and to play devil's advocate with what you said about like the tech and their controls, so with that. I mean, I'm just here, I'm waiting, I'm surprised it hasn't happened faster, but it's only a matter of time before Elon Musk and the Kanye West by the opposing side. Right now we're living in CNN information only and then Fox came along and then came at the counterpoint. So I feel like, and social media has now killed old media, right? So TV, radio is just rapidly dying right now. It is now the new way we get taken information. And the unfortunate part, it's dominated by one point of view right now. But what will happen eventually is the free market will control somebody else coming in and being competitive that enough people are waking up to this and we're learning every day. Like it used to be a conspiracy theory that this is happening. It's like more and more proof is happening. Like I was even on that just a couple of years ago tell these guys like, no, no, no, they're not doing that. And it's like, okay, wow, it's getting crazy. I love it. It's not organizing. Well, you know what the difference is between conspiracy theory and truth, about six months. Yeah, I love that. I love that. About six to 12 months. Yeah, no, so 100% I'm on board with that. But I still have- I agree with you big picture, Adam. I do. I just, the thing that worries me is like, well, how long? Like, what does that- What is the cost to go through to get there? Look, I'll use an example that we can all understand because we're all in the health space. Ultraprocess foods became more and more of our diets. The side effect being severe obesity and chronic health issues. That's a fact. That's the number one reason why we're obese. It's ultraprocess foods. How long is it taking us to figure that out before we start to unwind that? How many people have died? How many problems have we caused? So, I agree with you, Adam. The part that makes me go, oh, I'm in the beginning of it. I don't know how long this is gonna take. How bad is it gonna get before it gets better? Well, okay. I also think that's a bit flawed, even that statement. Like, to say that obesity is caused by ultraprocessed foods is not true. It's the root cause they're not addressing it and they're bearing their sorrows in the processed foods. So, that would be the same as blaming the technology is what's going to kill us. It's like, no, it's the choices that we make as humans along with that. And by us not realizing that we're allowing ourselves to be addicted to these tools, addicted to these foods, there's the root cause in figuring that out. That's 100%. And so, I don't think the solution is to get rid of ultraprocessed foods. I think what you're saying is a solution and we're gonna get there. I think we're gonna get there at some point. So, that's my point. And I think faster than we anticipate for your argument. I think that we are, like, things are radically shifting so fast. Maybe the Dark Ages will only last 50 years. Yeah. Let's hope this... That's a... It'll be fast. I mean, I think we're heading into it. Yeah, I'll be 92. I'm hoping until I'm betting on, like, a one or two-year recession, not a fucking 15-year recession I hope we're heading into. One of those hyperbaric chambers keep me going. Yeah, wake me up in the years. We figured it out, everybody. I think there's gonna be a return to slowness. I really do. Oh, I... I truly believe that. 100%. And it's not just because I'm, like, pro-breathwork, but it's because... I mean, it's tattooed on my arm in Italian, right? It's se posso respirare, posso sceire. And what that means is, if I can breathe, I can choose. Yeah. So if I can, like, slow down my breath, be present with y'all, not trying to, like, control the conversation and just be here. And also in my own life and in my business, if I can breathe in my life and my business, I can choose. I can choose to, like, play the game and do it really well. But if I'm hyper-trained by a phone to react, react, react, react, or if I'm hyper-trained because I don't have my trauma, that's not been processed, and I'm, like, hyper-vigilant in my life, there is this return because the pendulum swung so hard to this side of, like, control and forcefulness and data and linear thinking. I really do believe that it will course correct. I have total faith in that. That it will course correct. I do too. I think... So Mike and I were talking about this last night at dinner and stuff, and I think that we may be in this time where what we might see is this, like... And I've been saying this in the podcast for a long time, that I think that we are gonna have a pretty clear divide down the middle of plugged-in and unplugged society. Yeah. A society that says, hey, you know, you guys can say all you want, but I'm happier in the metaverse. I enjoy it more. I get this. I could be whoever I want to be, and they believe that, and it offers progress, and we're better and we're smarter, and I'm gonna go that way. And then there's gonna be other half that are gonna wanna breathe and slow down, it's not for me. You can do it. And I really think, and I almost think that we're... And they'll go to war with each other. So Mike said that, right? And I said, I don't agree with that. Because there's a difference between our civil war before and our difference between our civil war now is the red and blue was both picked up guns. We're not in that situation this time. One side clearly knows they're gonna get their ass kicked, the other side. And so I don't think it'll get to that level. I think it'll push to almost, and then we'll disagree, like, okay, you go have these states, we get these states and people will start to move in that direction. I really think that's happening. You know what's interesting? I was actually having this conversation with Aubrey Marcus, and he was like, oh, I watched this Netflix series where the guy was like, I like to fuck my woman and go to war. There's something in us that actually likes the conflict. It's this weird paradox as a human where we say we want peace, and we do. I actually believe that most people want peace, but there's also something in me. Maybe it's the connection to my grandpa, I don't know, where I'm like, if you come after my child, I will fucking kill you. And I like that part of myself. And that's the part of myself, that the part of all of us, that warrior, that's like, I will protect, that's actually being diluted in our media. It's being diluted. 100%. And it's actually being shamed to be a man. I'm not talking about a old school, because the patriarchy has its darkness, right? It definitely does, but it also has its good. How do you think all this shit got built? Like, it didn't get built because people were wishing that it got built. And so I really feel like there's a part of all of us that needs to, we need to learn how to be this warrior archetype in our life, but without being an asshole at the same time. No, the man that gets all the respect from other men is not the guy that goes around and kicks the shit out of everybody. It's the guy that can. That's the power versus force thing. It's the guy that can, but he chooses not to. He chooses not to. I remember distinctly hanging out with some top MMA fighters. I did Jiu Jitsu for a while on it, so I knew him as we went to a bar and when you get recognized as a fighter, everyone wants to get the asshole who wants to come test themself. And I'll never forget, this guy was poking at him and poking at him and poking at him or whatever. And my dude who could have kicked the shit out of the other guy while eating a sandwich and watching TV at the same time, he's like, listen, man, let me buy you a drink. And then he walked away. And I remember I had so much respect for him, because I know he could kick the shit out of that guy. So that's what makes a good man, is you have that in you, but you choose not to, unless you have to, because it's there. It's funny, we were talking about this the other day. I don't know if this has happened to you yet. If I'm home alone, I don't know if this is ever triggered in me. If I'm all by myself late at night, no kids, no wife, which is rare, but it happens occasionally. And I hear a noise. I get scared. When my wife and my kids are home, and I hear a noise, I am ready to attack. It's so different when I'm alone, versus when I got wife and kids there. It's so different. Have you experienced that yet? Were you hearing a noise? Oh, it's so funny. I mean, but I'm also not one of these people that believes in ghosts. Like, you know, some people are like, oh, I've definitely seen a ghost. Oh, it's not even that. I've definitely seen a ghost. I'm scared there might be a guy out there that's trying to break in. But that thought, that doesn't cross my mind when my wife and kid are in the house, and I hear something out there. I instantly am looking for a weapon, and I'm going towards the noise. If I'm by myself, I'm more like, I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that. I'm going to pretend like I didn't hear that. Let me get out of here. I've never, honestly, I've never really thought about that. Pay attention when it happens. I know exactly where my guns are in the garage, so I just feel like if I need them, they're there, and fuck, I've never really thought about that. Bro, it is funny. It is hilarious. I've even been out in public where you see a dangerous situation, and if you're by yourself, I better get the hell out of here. You got your kid, and you're like, how would I handle this situation? You're looking around and scanning to see who is my biggest threat there. It's funny. This guy, and I'm going to go to this one next, but if I'm by myself. It's so different. It's so funny. And it's like this natural, I remember the first time I felt it. My kids were little. I'm at home. I had this glass coffee table looking thing out in the backyard, and we had an umbrella. It was windy, and we forgot to put the umbrella down. So the wind pushed the umbrella down and shattered the table, because it was made out of glass. It sounded like someone broke through the sliding glass door that connects to the backyard. You got the Rambo headset on, and you're ready to go. I was, I jumped down the stairs. The sheets attached to me from bed before I realized what the hell I was doing. And I had this, I can't explain the feeling other than I felt like whatever was in front of me, I would go through. Like I was a grizzly bear, like that. And I remember coming to, realizing what happened, I started cracking up. I'm like, did I just, I'm not the most agile person in the world, okay? I like to lift weights, that's about it. I jumped down the stairs, pulled the sheets with me. And at the time, my wife almost fell out of bed because they came out so quick. It was the weirdest feeling. And I was like, oh, shit. I'm glad I have that inside of me, it was pretty cool. I mean, that part gets to be celebrated, dude. Yeah, I think that's a good part of us. I actually think, so you touched on another thing that Mike and I are talking about. Mike who? Mike Matthews. Oh, Matthews, yeah. Yeah, he's been here. Actually, I think he's here right now. He's getting ready to fly. He was up here for like four days and hung out with us. And I was telling him that, I think what we're seeing right now is this push and this opposite direction, so hard to your point. But it's starting to wake up a lot of like, a lot of people that I think identify with me. I was super not political. I in fact, I used to say, I hate that. I don't pay attention to that. I call it sports for nerds. Let friends like Sal argue with people about that stuff. I'm not into that. But when, and really the way I looked at it was, listen, as long as it doesn't fuck with me and my family, then it is sports and nerds. But when it starts to bleed into my personal freedoms and you start to fuck with my kid and potentially my wife. Okay, now I'm awake. Don't wake up the bear, by the way. Now I'm paying attention. Now I'm like, now I'm on watch and I'm still cautious that, well, I'm not really gonna get all in it. But you keep poking enough at me and you're gonna wake that sleeping giant. I believe there's a lot of people in this country that feel that same way and are just getting kind of woken up right now because it's getting crazier and crazier. That's the part of me, the warrior in me. And maybe it is Papa Bear. I don't know, Mama's have it too. Mama Bear will fuck you up. Oh, that is. Mama Bear will fuck you up too. Oh yeah. So, but what you're talking about is there is something that this whole lockdown theater, health theater, mask theater. Pushed us faster, didn't it? It actually accelerated our uncomfortability to a point where now you are forced to look at that side of yourself. And thank God, right? Because when the hell else was it gonna happen? I'm like, not that I want war. I don't want violence. I don't want these things, but shit, they're here. And so for us to ignore them and like, stick our head in the sand, like I'm not gonna get involved. At what point, and this is for like all of us in everything that attacks our freedom, at what point do we go, okay, I'm going to pay attention to this. I'm going to address this. When does it matter? How bad is it to be? Dude, do you have moments over the past few years where you were just like, because that happened to me a few times, where I looked at this and I said, this is too crazy. There were a few of them. One of them was, I was watching a newscast, okay? This is in the middle of lockdowns, right? Remember, we're in California. We are in like the most lockdown. You're in the belly of the beast. This was like, it was like pure insanity with a lot of stuff. And everything's locked down or whatever. I'm watching them talk about stay six feet apart, stay at home, keep things locked down. Immediately, literally the same telecast, they switch over to the George Floyd riots where there's people out in the streets next to each other just going crazy protests and riots. And they literally said in the same breath, these protests really are not contributing in any significant way to the spread of the virus. And I remember being like, wait a minute, you just told me two minutes ago, we had to be locked down and isolated. And now you're saying that these people who are packed next to each other, screaming or whatever, are not spreading the virus. You can support them, but don't stop lying. This is insane. So I remember that was one moment. So incredibly inconsistent. The other moment was watching children be forced to wear masks to get on planes, three and four year olds to wear masks. And look, if you got a kid, you know you can't keep your kids socks on. You're gonna have them handle a medical mask properly so they don't spread viruses even more. And you can put it on a little kid's face and then on top of it, their mental development, their brain develops by watching faces, so that's what we're sacrificing. Like this is a bunch of scared adults forcing shit on their kids. That was the second moment. Those two right there. And I was like, oh, they're gonna put, and the reaction's gonna be swift and strong. That's how I remember that, and it's gonna happen. And it's happening, I think. Listen, I'm gonna say something and it's with respect. So this isn't to have any other standpoint than that. How were six million Jews executed? Yeah. So I say that with deep, deep respect. They were executed because there was a thought form through social contagion and propaganda that was exhibited all across the media at that time in Germany, and people believed because of the pain they were in. That's the key. You have to have the populace and pain in order to instill propaganda into them to where it sticks. So the same thing applies to this. And people might be like super triggered by what I'm saying, but I believe that they are comparable. And it's not my words. You can do a quick search and look at some of the Holocaust survivors themselves that were speaking out about the whole theater and the lockdown madness, because they said to them it felt exactly the same. Yeah, you know what's funny is when you talk to people about stuff like that in history, everybody is like, oh, I'd be Schindler. No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't. There was one Schindler. There were a million. Statistically speaking, there's one. There were a million people that didn't do anything or just went along. So you have to look at what's going on. And I don't care if it's public. Things that got you canceled off social media got proved correct two months later. Literally, that's the timeline for a lot of the stuff. People got kicked. Their business is destroyed. Their livelihoods, their professions destroyed. Two months later, oh, they were actually right. Here's the data. Here's what's going on. Here's the truth. That's crazy to me. So what you have to do, and this is what I hope people do, is, and there's rationality. I'm not against being rational at all. In fact, I'm being pro-rational right now. If this ever happens again, because it will, not maybe not this specifically, but shit like this, be okay with going against everybody, or what it feels like everybody. Because I honestly think there were more people who said, this is crazy, but I'll just go along. Absolutely. And so I think look at the stuff and don't be afraid to go against what everybody's saying. Don't be afraid to speak the truth and to say, that doesn't make any sense. I don't understand. This doesn't make any sense. This one thing right here makes no sense. It broke our fucking hearts to leave California. I was California for 40 years plus. I'm a California man. I love California. And we were watching a sunset overlooking the ocean. This is right in the heat of it all, 2020. We had just moved into this beautiful place in Cardiff, overlooking the ocean, the bay. Like, whoa, the cop came up to us. We're watching the sunset alone. There's no one around us. And he goes, hey, you guys need masks on if you're gonna be out here. And I thought he was joking. He's like, no, seriously, it's a new city ordinance. You have to wear a mask. That night we went home and we're like, where else are we gonna live? Crazy. Because we didn't know how bad it was gonna get. Bro, they closed parks and beaches. We had no idea. Surfer out in the ocean by himself. Got arrested? This is like, I mean, it tugs on my heart even now to talk about it. Like Austin's been great. Like it's been great for business and entrepreneurship and friends. It's been awesome. But like, the fact that we had to move for freedom and it's no shame on you guys. Like, you know, you're here. It's obviously you made it, right? That's my fault, by the way. I'm the one that keeps you. Yeah. Okay, great. But with Kerry being pregnant with Nova at that time, I was like, there's no fucking way I'm gonna have my son here three years from now where we have to wear masks to go take him to the beach. Get the fuck out of here. So that is a big, I made the sacrifice for freedom. I made the sacrifice to, like you said, be different than everyone else and go against the grain. Not because I wanted to be like, look how cool I am going against the grain. Just cause I want it to be free. I just want it to be free. That's what I meant by it's, it's waking all the sleeping giant in most of us. No doubt. I think once you start to, that would, that's something that would get me the same way. Like that happened to me. Like, I mean, I had a similar thing with my son's gymnastics. We had him in, rolled in gymnastics and you know, the pandemic rolled around and all of a sudden he had to wear a mask to go to gymnastics. I said, the fuck he is. And he's two years old. The fuck he is. He's not gonna do that. I'm like, I cannot believe they're gonna do that to these kids at that age. I mean, I just think that's terrible. They took kids out of school here for a long time. I saw my kid, my older kids suffer in their room, on their computers, all day to do school. Scared to go hang out with friends. I remember the first like few times my son hung out with his friends outside. You know, they hung out outside. All of them scared to be near each other, wearing masks. I said, oh shit, the damage we're doing to our kid. By the way, at this point we knew how non-dangerous this virus was towards children. Okay, that's a fact. So people get pissed off or whatever. No, it's a fucking fact with kids. The flu is far more dangerous than COVID. That's a 100% established fact. And what we did to these kids, we scared the shit out of them. When you're in fourth grade, two years of your life were in the middle of this. That's like a big chunk of your life and you're developing and you're growing and your brain is forming. We have not yet seen the repercussions of the damage that we've done to our kids because we were scared because we were scared. And again, the evidence is crystal clear. We made children wear cloth masks, which is like, it's like putting a chain-link fence around your bed to stop mosquitoes. Okay, kids do not handle masks the way that you're taught medically. If you watch how masks are actually effectively used, there's a protocol. Nobody disposed of the same of one every single time they use it and didn't touch it, especially not children. It was pure insanity. All we did is we fucked up our kids because we were too scared to say something. If you look at Stephen Porges' work, The Polyvagal Theory, he talks about all the micro muscles in our face. When we met today, we did a quick two-second scan of each other's faces without knowing it. Just to make sure like- Tons of math is happening instantly. Fucking radically equate. So I'm like, how's Adam? Okay, he's good. Without even realizing it, by the way. Without even realizing it, we meet each other because you guys, and you guys did it to me too where you're like, how is he? Just a quick scan. When you cover the face like that, all the micro muscles in the face are not visually stimulating. There's no way that my brain can make sense. Is he safe? Is she safe? Are they safe? So when you, not just children, when you rob human beings, especially children, because they're connecting so much in their brain of that micro muscles, that adaptation in the face, you are robbing them of their own intuition to see if someone is safe or not. That's why bank robbers wore fucking bandit masks when they would rob trains, right? And you guys remember when the whole shit went down? It was okay for like three months to wear bandanas on planes. I would wear a bank robber one, and I would just rock it. And then, oh, well, that cloth isn't as applicable as the other cloth, so you can't wear that one. I mean, it's just so obvious at this point. And even here, I'm staying at the hotel here. There's still a sign, I posted this on Instagram. There's still a fucking sign that says wear a mask. And I'm like, don't you guys know that the game is like a year old, a year and a half old? Like, what is going on? I was telling you, I don't wanna acknowledge it. Look, it's part of the way they think now in terms of like, it's so paralyzing the fear. It's become an identity. The fear, it's an identity. It's also if I jump across this, that means now I'm a supporter of all these other ideas and ideologies, right? Or I was wrong. Yeah, or I was wrong. I can't admit that I was wrong because. That would destroy me. I love admitting I'm wrong, fuck. Yeah. Yeah, I. Make me wrong. Yeah, it was crazy. I think it was traumatizing to most, if not all of us. Those of us that don't realize it are gonna be the most traumatized. Those of us that are still living. And look, here's the deal. There was a period of time where the information we didn't know. Sure. We didn't know what was going on and what's happening. And that I understand. I get that. Six minutes. And I get it. After that, no excuse. After that, we know, okay, that's not. That's all ignorance at this point. This is very clear now. And also we have to understand human behavior. And what's funny is like to give you an example, we had states that had strict lockdowns and we had other states that were they, after a couple of weeks, they're like, no, you know, here's the information. It's up to you to, you know, choose whatever risk you want, right? When they follow cell phone tracking and you look at the behaviors of people, here's what happens. The spread of the disease goes up. People go out less. The spread of the disease goes down. People go out more. The migration patterns of people were almost the same as the ones where people were locked down versus where people made their own choices. People self-regulate. What's the difference? Here I'm forced. We're choosing winners and losers. We're destroying lives. Over here, people are choosing to work together. Young people are taking more risks than old people. Sick people are taking less risks than healthy people and so on. Insane, complete insanity. So I'm hoping. I am not trying to say to people, I told you so. I'm really, really fighting that urge. So I love saying that. But I'm really, really trying not to do that. Instead, what I want to be like, okay, listen. Be awake next time. Like next time this happens, because it's gonna happen. Just have more conviction. That's it. And be more vocal from the beginning. That's what we need. We need that from everybody. Well, you know what George Bush said. Fool me once. Fool me twice, you ain't gonna fool me again. J Cole put that down. I'm not a huge fan of George Bush. I thought that was perfect right there. No, we're in a time where it's so important for us to just be able to do this, man. It's so fucking good. It's like nourishing. Don't you feel nourished right now? Like I love this. And we just happen to do it and make money and make a business, but like this is what life is about. Whether you're a podcaster or not is like having the freedom to express yourself and share ideas. I also think this is also what makes me optimistic. I mean, this is a total disruption. I mean, look how unregulated this space is. Oh yeah. And this is the complete opposite of TikTok, right? So you have this, to me, I think- This is a great one. It's unregulated. We are businesses. Your businesses, okay. We have somebody else who does that, right? So, but we have- But you ain't gonna capture the essence of the podcast. You can't. Right, right. But I mean, my point is that, you know, you do have this huge rise in TikTok and the growth of that and the way that these kids are consuming content. But then you have the opposite growing right now of three hour Joe Rogan podcast that lots of people sit all the way through. And so we are seeking out these long form conversations and debate and discussion. And so- You can't stop it. They'll try and there's gonna be opposing forces and it'll keep bouncing back and forth, but I'm with you. Again, I just don't know. I think that the fear I have is just the unknown. I mean, you guys both- What does that look like? You bring up a good point of like, all of us agree in that direction. And it's really a question of is it a one to three year transition or is it a 50 year transition? We have to go through and I like to think because of your point on the hockey stick and Moore's law that we're going to- It'll be faster. Yeah, it'll be much faster that we will course correct than before. So I feel like it. I mean, I feel like I'm hearing more and more- Let's just hope we don't turn ourselves into it. The swings are a lot bigger these days. Yeah, and let's just hope we don't turn into an infertile homogenous species before we figure that out. That's the theory with that. That's the alien, right? Humans are going to turn into sexless organ aliens. Aliens like the grays, you know, they look like little with big eyes, no genitals or whatever, that they're future humans who go back in time to be like to fucking figure out how to reproduce naturally again. Wow. Yeah. Smoking joy is on reddit somewhere. This is all sober by the way, everybody. This is a sober conversation. Oh my gosh. Good time. Bro, you're always fun. Yeah, I enjoyed the fuck out of this. It's a good time. We can literally go forever, but I could talk much longer. I have to pee so about it. I have to pee too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's all go together. Let's go pee. All right, bro. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it. This one's really important, and that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps, if you compared that person to a person who did a bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and then three or four weeks of let's say 15 to 20 reps and then they'll throw in some supersets, at the end of that year, you're gonna see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury. That's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.