 I would like to thank Sisi Palafran as a jury for the wonderful demo of Farah Lohia for having organized this event. I will put a great thanks, especially Sisi for being so... ...have left the original tenacity and many activities in Lohia already for two years. I would also like to thank the people who might be loved by the NAC Museum and Dr. Rose Pankins, who is our oldest year's employer. And last but not least, Nicaraguan Domini, who insisted in asking me to organize this panel and created today's session. Of course, I would like to thank the three speakers who spoke with us. At the invitation, I would like to thank all of you for being here. So before starting this panel, let me present some thoughts on how we decided to organize it. When we got up all to be and talked to me about this year's program of the Lohia Festival, I recorded my memory in a number of discussions we had. I referred to say more than 20 years ago. Within the frame of the European Network of Research and the Communication and Performance Education program. You are raised for me on the construction of the database of the productions of the European performance education program. Although we had a general agreement concerning the basic fields that would be necessary for the database, we felt in a great difficulty while approaching one problem, how to define translation. This might have been the first time that we all had to think our position towards the problem and realize how much of this work sounded different to the mind of each other, one of us. As a group consisting of people coming from classics and people coming from theater studies, we wanted to be very clear in what we would define as translation. We were very perplexed. There was a rather embarrassing confusion. Some suggested that we should add the logic of the database to measure how much distance was the translation from the original ancient text. Some others proposed forget-the-word translation and used only the word adaptation. And I do remember on the occasion of the conference organized by Ljubljana Kacil, the performance of Rika Rothman and Kostar, that one speaker was trying to avoid the problems of the word translation, proposed the knowledge of translocation, or even the word trans-transiation, in spite of the logic, or maybe due to this. So the problem was in that, and it still is there. So since the distance of theater studies and the realization that there is a gap and the bigger gap between page and stage, I would like to mention the conflictual relation between theater and literature. The main problem remains, the problem of translation remains not only as a topic of difference, change, but mainly as a barometer. It's an indicator of our rigidity and our tolerance. It is situating the threshold of our tolerance. And in this openness that our first speakers do, the political conflicts are going to be exchanged. So let me present to you a guess. I will make a presentation and then we'll after the other one. Probably some of you have already met all the tabling, but some of these books have been translated already in this. We are here in the club of the SSMU Bouchers, it's Greek Russian Action, published in the first of the first publications in 1988, to make more of them out of it. And Elin Kuntlil, and in a great file in 1990, he's a major professor of classes at Oxford University and fellow of modern college in Oxford. He was a writer for the research effort in 1905 and he was awarded an honorary doctorate from our department of studies at the University of London. His first book has been a very influential stagecraft, Estelius, and among his recent books, Pots and Glaze, published recently in 1907, is a thorough and detailed determination of the interactions between the drag team and the rig based painting of the forces in DC. Co-founder of the archive of the performance of the Greek and modern drama in Oxford. Also co-founder of Harkner, our European network of research. This is the book of National Drama. And throughout his career he tried to keep one full outside the academy, especially in both plastic and thin. Recently he has been translated in plays with the aim of including the kind of musicality and color that would be affected in the live performance. He has published already in the fair, so far he has been in the king of all the tragedies and most recently Estelius of Steyer in the North conditions in 2015 that will be the subject of his presentation. Hermann Attena studied classics and filled the studies at the University of Amsterdam. As a visiting professor, Hermann lectured at the Free University of Amsterdam who took universities and life in the past. He has been a very active member of our network. Hermann Attena, at the summer course, at the summer course of which he offered a very interesting seminar on translation practices. He has done several researches by Estes on the English for professional theater companies, in the Netherlands and in Belgium and worked with many directors. Hermann van Magy, say, a bunch of old cook and young singers, the performance of Blackhead by Xenos Kuker Altema has been played in Amherst in the end of the ceremony in 2003, if I'm not wrong, and that was very, very, an extremely interesting and powerful production. He also worked with Kurt Kuker behind my nose for the TV list in 2006 in the previous. Recently he wrote the play and more than a week prior to it he used which was commissioned by two music groups in Amsterdam. Recently, in 2018, he completed the translation of Jean-Baptiste's Atomac and presently he's working on a translation of Flippelon, which is a new record composed by the Greek, that was composed by W. Tupac for local music which is an international festival for contemporary music in Poland. Asa Czengier is a dramaturg, a theatre studies scholar and translator, a guest lecturer at the Türi University, a Türi School of Arts where she teaches courses on translation, theatre translation. A holder of a PhD for the Flippelon-Bastille de Linde, she is a research associate of the International Research Centre interweaving performance cultures after the Friday visit. But this is the most fascinating of that different dynamic research centre of theatre studies from a several years ago. She's been working at the Manga for the Linde-Fastille, the German National Foundation, the International Festival of Posts at Weimar and as a dramaturg for visual arts. She's been working as a dramaturg since 2001 with French director Stéphane Balchryp about the dots where it goes in and together with Stéphane Balchryp she is responsible for the current French translations of the plays in the region. So after the German session, in the tale of her plays, the paper is the Conendlichli Aufgabe on Theories and Practices for Foundation, and after that, to my opinion, illustrates the challenges of every translation. If the word Conendlichli, Conendlichli is translated as Never Ending or Endless, the reasoning of the word Aufgabe constitutes already a complicated choice for the translation. In a dictionary, we can read the following possible meanings of the word Aufgabe in Greek and English. Cathical, Proposal, Beauty, Fast, Job, Proposal, Paretsi, Retailer, Droll, Salem, Plist, Losing Down, Provino, Assisi, Crescent, Exercise, and Massiere, Spiti, Homer, Apostolic, Mission. So on this subject, I read the story, and I might ask it the day before. As usual, introduction of all of us. Thank you to all of you for bearing with us. Platema Blues, that was already introduced, the title of my talk, and you can see it up there, and as he said, the Unendliche Aufgabe is quite a challenging phrase already. It's a quote by a German author, Professor of English and translator, Klaus Reichert, who was published extensively on translation as well. Eitel only consists of three words. It's an article, it's an adjective, and it's a noun. And in the German context, it should be run down simple and easy to translate, but as he just heard, it's not that easy. So we have endless or never-ending for Unendliche, and then we have the ring of Aufgabe as task, but also as capitulation. Could translation be a never-ending or endless capitulation? This question will be the first question of this talk, and in the next 12 minutes I want to raise some more. The question of what is translation to me can only be answered with more questions. In 2016, a new German translation of the Aristarium came out in Germany. It was published in the Rekonom Publishing House, which is the most common and most famous. So every student, every people, every theater person goes to this publishing house when reading a new play. It was done by coach Steinmann, and Steinmann's translation is closely following the old Greek text, and it even tries to keep up with the old verse, but it's supplying a colloquial phrase. He does this to make the understanding easier. The critics say that Steinmann makes the difficulties not easy, and the foreign and strangeness not close, but more accessible. However, for the field of theater and performance, a different translation of the Aristarium is most popular, and it's that of Peter Stein. And we have a side sticker, and we will review more about this in the following talks. And for those of you who listen closely, yes, both translators carry the word Stein, a stone in the name. His translation of Peter Stein is unlike the newest one, does not stick to the reverse form, but it's written in prose, which at that time was quite new. And the staging of the Aristarium by Peter Steinmann, one of the most important moments of German theater history, for many reasons, and we will not be able to talk about all of them during that time here. The side sticker who worked together with Peter Stein on the translation arrives, that Stein in this performance of Aristarium came close to the spirit of the original, as rarely anyone before. I stumbled over that phrase for two reasons. One is that side sticker surely cannot speak about all performances, but only the ones he has seen and only the ones in a very small part of the world. But the second part, my second stumbling point was the urge to come as close to the essence of the original to the spirit. Where does it come from? And he's not alone with that question, that urge. This claim is repeated over and over again by many translators and translation theorists, and it's worth asking what's behind that urge. So when is the translation considered to be successful? Additionally, when translating a text that will be used in a performance, an additional challenge arises. The text does not only have to convey context, meaning, form, musicality, but it also needs to be speakable by the performers on stage, and it needs to be curable and understandable by the spectators who only hear it in the moment of saying. So next question, in what ways need a translation to consider its use, its medium, and its audiences? If you're not too familiar with different translations, you may wonder how different can translations be? And as Platon introduced in the beginning, they can be very different. Coming back to the artist's hire and to use an often cited example, it's at the very beginning, the arts report. That's how it starts off. And in the Old Greek and the new German translation, he's talking about having an ox on the tongue. And as I know and believe, it's very close to the old Greek. So Peter Stein, he stayed close but went a bit further and he's talked about the bull that is standing on the tongue. So the ox turned into a bull. Then we have another option, which is a golden key that's closing the mouth. That's Dresden. We have another example, which is my mouth is stuffed tightly, so there's a force in it. It's the lanumus. And I have one blast. It's having hobbles or fetters abinding tightly my tongue. That's the one by Kumbot. Just to give you a few examples of the very same phrase. So, what is translation if there are so many alternatives? And shouldn't the question be what is a translation? To begin at the end, what does a project or work need for a translation? First of all, very basically, it tells us that there's a situation in which one person is confronted with something she or he does not yet understand. The confrontation with something strange or unknown. One way to deal with this situation can be to translate it. Translate words, actions, contexts and through this act of translation the unknown is understood to be put into one own grammar or language. It's a transformation. Or at least a transformation to something that I can react to. If this is the only way to deal with this situation I may leave up for discussion. And there are several ways of fields for translating. One is, of course, one language into another. But many people say that already the very act of reading is the process of translation. So whenever I read a text in you there's a transformation going on in my head. You might only see it by a brow going up or not. Any communication between me and Hermann or Lady is an act of translation. Guess they're interpreting what the other one might say. One language to the other. I said before, changing the media, going from the text onto stage. And then there's a whole question of cultural translation. But coming back to the text for now in existing theories of translation two main lines of thinking come across that, of course, can be completed by other models. And Friedrich Leiermacher, German philosopher put them out. Very interesting answer. It's worth a reading the text. It's called about the different methods of the translator written in 1813. And he gave his talk at the Academy of Science in Berlin. He differentiates between two different ways of translating. And one is moving the reader towards the original text. And the second is moving the text towards the reader. What does it mean? So moving the reader towards the text doesn't mean trying to bend the rules of one's own language. So that when you read this you might feel, oh, it's a bizarre way to put it. Or that's strange. Oh, it's an interesting image. It does not feel familiar, but you are able to dive into it. Leiermacher tries to say it as if the author knows this language, but he's not part of the language. And the second one is moving the text towards the reader as if the text had been written in the language from the beginning on. Even Leiermacher says that this is the one that's almost not possible. And Leiermacher talks about the purpose of translation as the true enjoyment of foreign works. And this truly means the pure enjoyment trying to find the real core of those works. And Thierry can sound the Leiermacher from the beginning again trying to find the real spirit of the text. One interesting point is Leiermacher as well is the strengthening of the all language. He says the plurality of languages and the transporting of that plurality through translation does strengthen the all language. And of course he has already the project of the nation states and the upcoming Europe in his mind. That's the background. What purposes do translations have? And more precisely this question is related to another one for whom is the translation done? Peter Stein puts this question into the function the aim of his particular translation into the center of his attention. He says and that's my translation. This translation of the Orestheger is characterized by the fact that it was not created for literary or academic purposes and also not for theater and performances in general but for a very particular performance for very particular actors for a particular theater and in the context of the long plan project about how to approach the anti-tragedy end for my own direction. Also the German philosopher Walter Benjamin focused on the functions of translation and his famous essay on the task of the translator. It's originally written in French and he transposed it as he says in southern German. He asks why translations are needed and says that the translation should not be for the reader as the original is not written for the reader as well and other things to put up for production. For him it's only in the translation that the original can unfold at its best so he sees that there's a more that only comes out in the translation a certain variety to briefly give you the context for Benjamin is connected to this philosophy of language and it implies for him that languages are not strange to each other but are free from all historical conditions they are related to each other so in the core there's one common thing to all languages and for Benjamin translation is one way to hint to that core and to hit that common ground. At one point he calls the virtual languages that you can find between lines that he's trying to find. Therefore for him translation are only temporary ways to deal with foreign languages. For him a true translation is transparent it's not covering or hiding the original and it's not taking away its life but it's painting at the true language. Peter Stein and his translation interprets transparency in a pragmatic way. He tends to give several alternatives if the translation of one word is unclear or contested. He simply puts one after the other including the listener or reader into this process of understanding a translation. So when I try to translate the unendliche Aufgabe as the never ending or endless task that's what Stein would do. He's not choosing between never ending or endless but he just gives you both. And that's for you as a reader or listener shows you both aspects both nuances of the word and it also shows you that maybe it can be kept into just one word so it makes you part of the process of translating. Another way to find this Felicitas Hoppe shows us for one of her texts it's a German writer and one of her stories there's a fictional narrator narrating this story and it's unclear in German if this narrator is a woman, a man or a non-binary person you just cannot tell. Now when translating this text there are many languages when it's not possible to keep it this way so you have to decide if it's a woman or a man. For example for the phrase I am beautiful French and German and in English you put this set by a woman or a man if I say it in French and I believe for Greek it's probably the same just we both just we both already by the word you choose it tells you what kind of gender the character has it's easy to do it it's rather easy to do it in written language so you could just use a slash and show the reader it can be both and into the original but what do you do when you say it and when you put it on stage that remains the question Stein is supported by the words of another famous German poet and that's Gürtel Gürtel said that for the mass so for the common people a simple translation is the best why for scholars among each others and their entertainment an ambitious translation can be used so Stein calls this translation or the translation he calls it a rating a post-narrating of the tale and it was important to him that the spectator the listener of the text would understand and really get a chance to understand everything and not stand in front of a closed door with closed text this is one of the reasons why he translated it into prose one last aspect before I close it needs to be briefly mentioned and it hints back at the question for whom a translation is done and also by whom it goes back to Edmund Curry who wrote in 1956 a short text on translation in the modern world he called the translation an important cultural word for the understanding of their own culture and he says the translator is a mediator that's always losing something that he cannot transport from one to the other way also for him he says that the translator should aim at one language and that a world in peace onto harmonic ages now that sounds for us a bit maybe a bit naive today I don't know what's right but we're talking about 56 and it's post-war time so he's writing from that perspective he says that the patient work of a translator prepares for the age of harmony and peace so he's putting himself again Schleyermacher said that we need the plurality of languages to get stronger while as Benjamin and Carrie they are looking out to find this one base question language for Carrie however the necessity of translation also includes the necessity of a choice or we just saw that in different examples and this carries along comes along with the responsibility so yes processes of translation always include a variety of choices choices of text choices of languages and distributions of words grammar, styles so it's not just about the ox on the tongue that I mentioned in the beginning it already starts maybe with a translation of the word street it's French and English but I cannot translate what a French person thinks of when he is rude so maybe things of going protesting on the street and rebellion so you might think it's not so difficult to give another word for the same thing but all the context it comes with it's not translatable I told you the example about Hoppe I am beautiful defining gender history has told us extra examples like the treaty of Waitangi I don't know if you are familiar with it it's between the Maori and the Buddhist colonizers they both sign both sides signed a treaty thinking that they signed the same thing but actually the understanding of what it means to claim land meant something totally different for each side and the owning and selling land or claiming land has a temporary usage and of course we have the famous example of Loges writing about the mistranslation or the mistranslation sorry that word of Aristotle and tragedy into Arabic so how to translate the word of tragedy which does not exist in this form in Arabic which has led to the whole history in many western Europe European countries that in Arabic there is no theater which is not true there is just other forms and other words for it even if the word itself cannot be translated so you have Masa and then you have to add different forms to it I can only I talk about those very short so the last question I want to pose is that what texts are translated by whom and circulated where and what power comes with it what power matrix it brings up the ethical responsibility of any translation process thank you I'll give you a question for David now the second speaker Adil Aghaman who is that is managing the gaps translation transformation relocation so first of all I would like to thank the organizers of the Amal Bia Festival as well for inviting me at Stumpfords and it's really a big honor to be part of this the productions of great tragedy by Dutch speaking people companies in which I have been involved as a translator or a dramaturg or as an author have always occurred at the intersection of politics and reforms from the first as well as persons in 1994 until the most recent a new tragedy titled Ilos in 2013 both the political significance of the play as well as its theatrical qualities were the main criteria for selecting them great tragedy matters for many reasons the conflicts set in a mythical past yet to the heart with human relations the political rhetoric often sounds terrifyingly modern we see mankind struggle with and fall victim to powers greater than himself we see human ambition desire and emotion manifest itself with the highest intensity the debates are sharp the monologues have a beauty beyond compare and the musical power of the meticulous composed choral songs is overall at the same time great tragedy is full of elements that may be unfamiliar to an average non-greed inspector and even to the artistic staff of an average non-greed theater company as a consequence translating great tragedy involves much more than just trying to render the original words and phrases in one's own language the translator has to deal with a whole race of potential gaps that originate from a general lack of knowledge about the world of ancient great drama not to be in social political mythical and religious context as well as the characteristics of ancient great drama texts in this short paper I would like to share with you how I as a translator try to deal with such gaps often in close collaboration with the artistic staff of the new production for relocation of the ancient play and that's the director the drama tour the composer and I will focus on two issues one that is connected with tragedy's religious and mythical context the other with a literary phenomenon that always fascinates me when I am working on translation I will not speak about the musical component of Greek tragedy which I consider essential to this genre since of the definitely will deal with this a very connected historical I will conclude my contribution with a short epilogue on Greek tragedy as a source of inspiration for conversation of new theater ok when I publish my translations in book form I can write lengthy productions I can write many footnotes and I can bridge every possible gap in this way without making any change to my text to the published text but in theater performance everything is different there is no room for footnotes there is no room for lengthy introductions everything that is obscured but essential to the meaning of the play has to be explained or transformed in a performance text or otherwise now a simple example of such a transformation that we often use when we make a performance text is to uniformize the names so E. E. of the concert Troy Alexander of the concert Paris Archives The Neons E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. in this play, the politically motivated events unfold within a religious center, which is a sanctuary of Demeter in Elastus. A group of women and boys from Marcos turn to Athens for help. Their sons and fathers have been killed in an expedition against Thebes, and now the Thebes are uniting relatives right to bury the dead. This year comes to a date and succeeds after a short battle in returning the dead bodies to their families. The bodies are washed and cremated, and eventually a dead and resting place. In the closing scene of the play, Athens receives from Argos the promise of eternal gratitude, a clear political message at the time. Now, on a political level, the play discusses many sentiments that are familiar to modern models, but on a religious level, there appear deep gaps. This is how the play opens in ancient Greek. We hear a woman pray, after a few lines, she will introduce herself as Aethra, the mother of the Athenian game Tiscus. Okay, do you meet her? This is a very simple presentation, everybody can do it. But the next one is SDU. SDU is a difficult approach. At the start of this play, the vast majority of Dutch audience will already be completely lost after the first three years. More importantly, from the outset they will miss the quintessence of the setting of this play. It starts with the naming of the result. Well, if the audience already knows and heard that she is a Greek goddess, only a few will be able to tell you that she has to do something with props and with brain. And how the anyone will know that she was associated with the Erosinian mysteries, a goddess of the afterlife that attracted huge amounts of physicists throughout the history to be initiated. The second word SDU is complicated in itself because modern Dutch have lost the idea of the earth as the center place in the house. The essence of the house. Now, the third word, Elesinos, with the colonos, and here the audience gets completely lost. When I ask my students who are not classicists, what is Elesis? Nobody will be able to tell you anything about this. So here we are. The original Greek spectators, and I give you the last two words as well. The original Greek spectators, and modern Greeks probably as well, immediately as people know, certainly from the underworld. The relevance of this setting would trust itself upon them within the first two minutes of the performance when the modus pomagos suffocate Ifra to help them to accomplish the return of the dead sons they lost in the battle before the Greeks. It may be clear that the simple translations of these words will not suffice to render this context to Dutch audience. When we produced the play in 2006 in a co-production with Micheal Nader in us and the Athenian de Zeer ensemble, we explained part of the context in the first lines, and part at the later stage in the program. I will try to literally translate my Russian foreign texts into English, and the transformations are marked in my texts. So, there's the other one. Here we go. You who are feeding the earth, you who are protecting this ground here, Elemish is dedicated to you. So, we have kind of context now. Now, I can tell everything in this first line, but then the audience really was again, because it's too much information in the first three lines of the play. So, the second part of the information we gave at the later stage, in the co-logue, when Eutra says, I stay here at the sacred herb of the two goddesses, Persephone and Demeter, and we had the following explanation who preserved the mystery or secrets of life after death. And then everything is there. It's been told for once, and the context is there. Now, this religious and mythical context originally gradually almost continuously provides gift like these. And every time again an artistic staff has decided whether or not to bridge these elements. Sometimes we just translate as names, almost as ornamental elements. And others, we transform them and we explain them. And when they threaten to become a real burden, we skip them from the performance text, accepting that not everything in the original play can be real hastens. All the gaps appear from the linguistic and stylistic qualities of ancient Greek texts. I look forward to one phenomenon that for a modern audience, and especially for the younger generation, becomes a real obstacle nowadays. I just had to follow my power point. Great traditions did not hesitate about lengthy monologues. Sometimes up to 100 verses or even more. And within these monologues, they used clauses that could run over 10 verses or more. Today, I will concentrate only on 90 clauses, but much of what I say with the necessary changes is true for monologues as well. Before we accept that the use of 90 clauses has become outmoded and we decide to split them into a small piece of pieces, it is worthwhile to take a closer look at the possible benefits of that. Long clauses depict a world that is not governed by simple causality. Great traditions use a variety of stylistic techniques that range from different types of subordinations to the free use of word order, to the insertions of rules for situations, because they created a very complex, technical structure of that one with remarkable consequences. A good example comes from the Bible in Exodus. The opening clause consists of 15 verses, and I will focus on the first nine. The central message is this. In that year, this is, since Menelaus and Agamemnon an extradition of men from Argos could be seen. This is the main information of this clause. Now, if we look at the clause as a whole, then many things start to change. Around this central message, Aishu was organized as clusters of additional information that often appealed to the spectators' imagination and his associative capacities. Aishu was John's from image to image, from perspective to perspective, as if he uses a camera. He starts with a time frame, and you can follow it in the... Then he shifts his camera to primes, and the associative image is destroyed. Then there's a loose qualification, and we don't know about who this qualification is. We didn't hear the name of Menelaus. There's a motive of Tdikos. Then the camera shifts to Menelaus. His function unlocks with all the connotations. Then he shifts to Agamemnon. There's a characterization of the leadership. There's a focus on the throne. The image changes again to Zeus, the high power, who changed the power. Then there's again a shift of focus to the skeptor, which is qualified as honorable TV's. Then there's an image of Yogi, characterizing the tie between the two leaders. There's a focus on their common lineage, so the focus is on Arthur. Then there's a shift of focus to the expeditions. There's a zoom in onto the savers and the soldiers from Argos. There's a zoom out to the huge amount of ships. Then there's a first zoom out to the land of Argos, the base faction, and a first zoom out to the ships of the Brots. Now we are at Ira, who you see. Then there's a qualification of the extradition and in the last line there's a zoom in on Menelaus and Agamemnon and their strong wardrobes with preferences to Saturn. Now I will not embark on a translation of his complex course into English because I'm not a native speaker, nor does it make any sense to read my Dutch translation here because no other people understand the word. But I think the point is clear. The use of camera to be in this long process. Okay, although technically the information structure is complex, the course is well balanced and it's rich in terms of shifting images. This balance is easily disturbed when you try to split the line into smaller courses. I used to explain to the experts that I suppose the language that is marked by discontinuity is the language for slowness. And this is true to a large extent for Zoffy's and European's as well. And this brings me to another benefit of 90 courses. Well-ordered complexity is also a gift to the actor. What he or she has this in hand of the course and turned all the elements into a clear line of thought. The complexity vanishes and creates space for variation in phrasing, in foregrounding, every night again. Then suddenly these texts start to blossom at their fullest. And for me, this is the most important reason why I always aim at a similar synthetic complexity in my translations. Despite the gaps that we encounter when we try to relocate the Greek tragedy in the modern world, these ancient texts remain strong vehicles for addressing contemporary sociopolitical issues, as they did if it's actually better. This power of Greek tragedy has forcibly been explained by the fact that the mythical world in which the human crisis are set creates a distance and thus becomes a safe parallel environment for reflection. This same quality may be one of the reasons that prompted later authors to write new tragedies, or to adapt, act in place and to transfer contemporary issues into the context of ancient Greek myth. While we call this practice Reversed Relocation and it's another manifestation of how Greek tragedy as a genre operates at the intersection of politics and performance. During my work as a translator I have often thought about this quality of Greek tragedy in relation to current sociopolitical issues in the Netherlands. These thoughts resulted in 2013 in a new modern translation titled, The Netherlands at that time experienced an unprecedented rise of populism, both that left and right wing. The political debate became increasingly dominated by anti-feelings, anti-islam, anti-euro, anti-leftist delusion, anti-culture, anti-globalism, anti-immigration. Clever rhetoricians propagated the glorification of the past to give all of them to the touch. And the power of rhetoric, especially the rhetoric of fear and discontent became the main subject of this. The debate plays out how in the hands of clever speakers a confrontation between democratic ideas and anti-democratic sentiments may end up in a deep impasse, cause great social turmoil and ultimately may even be a lucrative war. Material for the elaboration of this subject was provided by the political situations in Athens around four or four BC, when the Athenian democratic system was temporarily suspended and the ban of 30 anti-democrats under the leadership of Cretias seized power. Political murders, large scale confiscations followed and many Athenian democrats were exiled. This regime of terror ruled for a year, when it was defeated by an army of democratic exiles under the leadership of Thracians. I have always been struck by the fact that a rather stable political system like the Athenian democracy could be annihilated within a period of only a few months by a group of people using treachery to disguise their true intentions. By relocating the Dutch political situations in an ancient, mythical context based on the privacy of philosophies with their office and mixing it with the historical events of 404 BC as well as with images from the rise and suppression of modern democratic movements I tried to create a distant world for reflection. Spectators were deprived of their preconceived ideas about current Dutch politicians. Instead, they were invited to judge in a conflict between strangers on the basis of arguments. A conflict in which democratic and anti-democratic sentiments had both the appealing and the upward sides. And this is what we tragedy is capable of. Despite the fact that sometimes creates deep gaps. It goes to the heart of the human. It shakes you out of your conflict zone and it's a sea of inspiration that appeals to the deepest levels of your creativity. So, let's continue to translate it to perform it transform it to be able to be able to because it's a work of art. Now we have an order of cabling who is going to speak in the title Attempting to translate those here in the sky. That's us. Please forgive me for using the language of Trump and Johnson. That all translations have in common. And that is that they are a matter of priorities. They're always a matter of priorities. Whether these priorities are recognised or not. Every single word in a translation of whatever kind of translation every single word is a choice. Every and, every but, every care, every mark is a choice. And these choices are a matter of what has been prioritised. Whether it is making priority of things in the original whether it's making a priority of things in the target audience and the target language or whether it is making priorities of the translator's own ideas and abilities. And actually it is some kind of combination. But every single phrase makes a difference. And I think actually this is rather in keeping with what Herman has just been saying. Every single phrase makes a difference to the norms. Makes a difference to the rhythm. To the clarity or to the obscurity. To the domestication or to the foreignisation. To the level. To the pace. To the musicality. To the colour. Every single word makes a difference to the feel. I am an academic. I have been a professional pedant. But I have I put no value at all no special status at all on what has known in English as a closed translation. Or a literal translation. I don't think there's really it has no special priority because particularly for poetry and particularly for theatre and particularly for eastwards. Eastwards, escalos, escalos what is that again? Escalos is not playing. Escalos is not pedestrian. So a plain pedestrian translation has no special status. Seamus Heaney towards the end of his life translated Virgil in the book 6 and it was published after his death and he had some very fine words at the end of his introduction. He is contrasting his translation as a great poet with a way to translate Latin at school and he said how different it is from what he had to do to please his school teacher and he was a very, very good student. Now that he has become my quote, now I have become a writer of verse who has other things and literal accuracy on his mind and in his ear. So heaney on his mind and in his ear rhythm and meter and litigation the voice and its pacing the need for diction decorous enough to get not so antique as to sound out of time and not a more contemporary medium all the fleeting fitful anxieties that affect the literary translator and you can see how I share very much share all the fleeting fitful anxieties that affect the literary translator. Well, I have pleasure if only for just purely self-centered hedonism of translating the Aristotle in the last recent years and he came out last year published by Norton in New York but as a Norton critical edition this has a lot of pedagogic material with it some notes at the bottom of the page scholar the extracts and scholars but Norton also brought it out in this live-write edition which actually I have to say has sold better which is more for the general public and is sure of the pedagogic material priorities. As I say it's all a matter of priorities I have tried as my priorities to bring out the musicality and the color of these words at the same time at the same time to try to bring out the theatricality so that this is good for acting and good for hearing you know we always talk about speakability but also it must be good for hearing as well as good for speaking for better or for worse may pay special attention to what I would call metrical registers to the type to the levels to the types of measure of meter and here my key quotation by Brotsky the Russian poet who flipped to the United States he he was reviewing a new translation of in 1974 Brotsky wrote a translator should begin his work or her work the translator should begin their work translator should begin their work translator should begin their work translator should begin their work with a search for at least a metrical equivalent of the original form with a search for at least a metrical equivalent of the original form now equivalent here is the key term and equivalents translating from ancient Greek Austrian verse into a modern language into English in particular we are translating from a metric that was arranged by quantity by the length of the syllables this was the metric of ancient Greek the length of the syllables was what underlayed the metric whereas for English and indeed for modern Greek the metric is a metric of stress so immediately you are looking for an equivalence between quantity, the length length of the syllables it's not the same thing it's not at all the same thing and it makes you realize that every language has different associations of rhythm different associations of sound patterns different metrical histories so that patterns and sounds and rhythms and meters carry different associations in different languages so this is something you can't say there is no universal rule because this is so different from the different languages being translated now for better or worse in my English translation I have three main metrics and I picked actually if you want to distribute this handout please don't please don't bother with the handout because it's very serious I picked a passage from towards the end of the the end of the after the murder after the killing of Agamendo and Cassandra there's this great confrontation between Paitr Nester Paitr Nester Paitr Nester and Forest I picked this passage because it contains my three main metrics the Iambics of the Spoken the Iambics of Cremata the 12 or 13 of the Greek the Anarchistic meter which is the least common to start and you have there the passages with the very respectable lower castor tank stop Alex Summerskin you have the Greek translation by Dmitri Dmitriardis and you have my translation I'm not sure if it's like this now it so happens that in English by good fortune the Iambic meter which Aristotle as obvious in the verdict describes as a Manista lepticon a ticket especially speakable that also in English the basic most speakable meter is Iambic it is not difficult to make our English in Iambic meters all you have to do is keep along you can say whatever you make wish it usually it often falls into Iambic meter but there is also in English a great traditional grand verse the Intensifiable Line almost almost like Seth Genders waking up that Shakespeare Milton Wordsworth Tennyson all used the black verse meter I decided that I couldn't I couldn't try that it was a mistake to try to use the black verse maybe that was a mistake maybe I should have it would have given me more form but instead I used variable line in and I tried to introduce some syncopations and irregularities but I hope that my lies have under them and Iambic pulse so before we keep the line so it is this here so you can just hear without the retext let me just read you a little passage this is Clifton Nestra immediately when she is with the dead bodies she lands over the dead bodies and she starts to make a defence to the old men and then she says here I am I did it offer no apology for saying things that contradict what I have said before to suit them all how else if you are carrying harm against your enemies and think they are friends how else are you to wait with the trap of mence and hide to be escaped by leaving over my mind has long been working out this final contest in my long drawn view and now at last it has arrived I stand here where I struck with what I did in front of me so I hope you can hear the pulse but it is not it is not tight so looking yes so this passage I don't know if you just want to look at the materialist to make sure that you or to some esteem translation so this is he just arrives and wrecks up the confrontation with Clifton Nestra and the corpse I greet you welcome light of day that brings me justice I can say at last I want to look down from high upon the crimes of earth and make sure humans pay the price since now I see this man here lying in the woven cloths of the aloo dress and paying for the cloth is father perpetrated so the indigeno is that it? now you see there in the light of what Helen was just saying I've used the aloo dress I've very deliberately not used furies I think the furia the latin have none of the terrified researchers of the furies but for audiences who have never heard of furies or the furies you have heard my name I want a new tip so now secondly the anapists we're looking at actually the mitreanist translation just missing some words at the very beginning it should start something like this is not your business then so I mean so I mean he has he frontier and then it goes on and then so now for the anapists when I translate I translate but it doesn't really work it's too difficult to go it's done it's done so instead because the anapist has a certain rhythmical energy to it in between speech and song and for a trochaic rhythm and an eight syllable trochaic line so let me read you how I translated this this anapistic stanza this is kind of nested to the chorus it is not your proper place to raise this matter by my hand he dropped down in death and by my hand he shall be laid down under not with morning from outsiders actually his daughter greet him his adored epigeniah meet her father at the ferry landing by the aching river and embrace him planting kisses of it and I must of it I'm very pleased with aching river this is the river Acheron and there is a similar word play in the original read between Acheron reef and the river Acheron it's actually in the second lot of anapist which I've not I'm not going to concentrate on but there's a good example of what we were just talking about where in the original he talks about the diamond of the Pleistones Pleistones even the commentators don't know who the hell Pleistones is so I translated that as the diamond of this landline but again you know I've used the word diamond very deliberately because I couldn't think of a better way of saying it so finally let me come to lyric this is the most challenging the most various almost half of the areas started in lyric pieces and this is what I found the greatest of most fascinating challenge for I place myself here as a an academic who tries to write an verse in my time but within my own time after the free verse modernism and free verse the age of Eliot the age of Ceteris there has in English been a movement back towards form and here I've been influenced by two giants who show that they're trying to climb on James Heaney and Tony Harrison have they both made use of stanza forms particularly perhaps mallet stanza forms and of rhyme and I have made use of rhyme on action more accurately to say I made use of half rhyme, half rhyme sound echoes so I've only used absolutely direct rhymes where there is some point in it landing direct otherwise I've tried to use sound echoes sound patterns and I've often usually been either these have been arranged in couplets or in cauterines this is how it's of English much longer stanza forms four times is about as much as I can manage I will just first before I look at the stanza here let me read you a stanza once again so you can just hear it without having the Greek in front of you Agamenton has gone into the palace trading on the purple clocks and there is the most wonderful four stanza chorus where the chorus tangled with what has happened it starts wide as this cringey grid overcast and the last stanza let me just read you this it's quite closely the rhymes here are closer than my usual in arranged A B A B as the rhyme scheme A B A B have translated all of these lyrics I've tried to think of them as song tried to think how wonderful it would be if a composer could make music out of these just to be sentimental for a moment some years ago I did a spaghetti museum in California and then in also in London a show called Swarov song with Lydia Coney on it she directed it and Taki Smarazzis wrote music and it was one of the great pleasures of my life to hear his setting of my verses to music so let me just read you this stanza the last the fourth stanza after the book see once blood has spurted black and soaked the ground to death there's none enchanted back to life from the stained earth an overriding fate holds back those who transgress awarding that my heart should make clear with full voice it lurks in dark instead and murmurs in its pain blind the thread meanwhile my mind's aflame so you can hear the kind that as I say is titled musical but with the deliberate close rhymes that comes to the end of the stanza and if we now just take the call of stanza that is there a monkew is it yes, our native safety campaign so the one that will be in the Dmitriyadis goes in the end I couldn't see it in the early in the school in the Middle East so again I'd like to hear this in music I hope I've given some musicality to the language she needs the condemnation back to judge is difficult the plunderer gets plundered in his turn the killer pays for guilt yet this remains as long as Zeus remains at his throne secure who does the deed must suffer for the deed that's the eternal law who can eliminate the seed expel the household curse of last this family and dire catastrophe are glued together fast so you see I have these partial rhymes to judge is difficult the killer pays for guilt upon his throne secure that's the eternal law the household curse of last are glued together fast with a full rhyme for that final one because it's glued together fast now I'm told I've been told this in several modern languages that rhyme is impossible but in Italian I told in French you can't use rhyme in a modern translation because rhyme is arcade I've heard this said in Greece as well rhyme has a kind of old fashioned 19th century feel about it the days of rhyme are all about it now my last point is just to say I wonder about that when I see a popular song almost all languages makes their names a rhyme and what was the popular song in 5th century Greece how is it that the Athenians who were the slaves in the stone quarries of Syracuse want their freedom by teaching the Syracuse the lyrics of Europeans what is it that the old men said that Aristotle tells us would sing as they walk along the road they would sing the old lyrics of St. Nicholas the popular song of 5th century Athens was the lyrics of tragedy and so I think I would like to think that the musicality of rhyme in languages as well as English in other languages also has potential for composers potential for holding together the poetry and the original so again this is a matter of priority it's a matter of making a priority of musicality thank you I would like to add that maybe for discussion any questions let me discuss one more thing because yes please yes thank you for a wonderful paper but it seems that for every translation there has to be a production and a director who can make full use of that translation for instance what you demonstrated in your translation needs a director who can really enjoy music and sing out the portions but also the musicality of the dialogue as you know in the ancient times the dialogue was not ever just conversationally rendered but it was in 2-3 ways Parakataru so it was very very musical as compared to our understanding of dialogue yes absolutely the reason why I agreed to do this with Norton is although what they wanted is a book that would sell to a great shawarala one but I said to them I will only do it I was fortunately I will only do this if I can produce a performance text and that meant there are many places where I've cut lines where obsurities I've tried to produce a text that does not need footnotes that does not need explanation that can be read out loud that can be performed out loud and they let me do this they say you don't have to produce a totally close translation absolutely I mean I'm glad you stopped me because this is what I was working with the whole time the aspiration the aspiration of performance and then you suit such a text professor suit such a text make use of buzz illustrations as well to to make an addition Norton I missed the way that you use the buzz illustrations well these usually you read in books that we don't know anything about what the original look like we have a lot of paintings from the next century painted by the Greeks in Megalia La in which show it is a very good idea of costumes and props and so on and I wrote a book on this of two one for comedy and one for traffic but I can't possibly say to a designer you must try to produce entry costumes that's impossible what I would say to a designer just have a look at these pictures they may give you some ideas so just as the translation cannot be a museum translation so the design can't be a museum design I think but it's something to feed into the mix thank you, thank you Oliver so much an ignorant question about the use of two key words and I say it's ignorant because I'm not an expert on English on metrics at all my impression is that the Tokkei rhythm has a light hardness that may not be there in the original I am reminded of that famous scene in Jane Austen's Mansfield Park where they rehearse a play and the father recounts sexual exploits in the Tokkei words and of course we all know that Aristotle says that the Tokkei verse is more appropriate to comical and dance and drama than the serious drama that is tragedy but then as I said it may well be that English poetry has its precedence for the use of Tokkei verse in more serious context I think I mean in some ways the thing that makes people think most in English is higher water or the calabala I mean I think in some ways I have the calabala rhythm behind it so I don't think it any longer has your genus I mean it's very nice for Jane Austen allusion but I don't think it any longer has that kind of frivolity and I but of course if I say the calabala rhythm that I want the rhythm as it draws me then again that's what something with audiences will pick up but I'm trying to as the as the original as the Anabista if you spoke of what I call charted Anabista rather than not lyricist can be a marching rhythm so I wanted to have something that had a that kind of pace but it's a different one because I experimented with Anabista Anabista don't work thank you thank you sorry I must I agree entirely about the rhymes the rhyming structure I need to cop out doing a translation without using the rhythms and the rhymes which are actually there in front of you I suppose the aim would be to get those lyrics as popular as they were in the ancient times as they are today how far do you go in actually modernizing the text I say this because I did a version of the artist called Bloodstream at the Palace Theatre in Edinburgh and I set the three acts in different periods of modern history first one was set in the time of the Second World War and the language was pure local and the second one was set in the kind of 1950s so the language was kind of a pincer that's why the boy comes back and feels smart and then in fact the last act was in a kind of limbo land of modernists but looking to the future how far do you go in modern religion also just to say the production of Peter Stein which in a sort did modernize itself gradually through the acts to the end you were in a television studio and Athene was the anchor woman who was judging the anchor well I mean I was a little bit of a dancer which and the Peter Stein which which Astrid was talking about used different levels of addiction but I think it never got there's a problem with colloquiality I think when you're translating tragedy at least if you're translating tragedy with my background in the scholarship which I can't get rid of I have to live with it it's in my mouth and that addiction has colloquial elements but it's not consistently colloquial it's comedy it's not consistently colloquial so I think it's a false as usual a false dichotomy all the dichotomies in translation studies are false dichotomies but I don't have a lot of colloquialism just because I'm reflecting these in the East Canadian language but I would not stop you or anyone else maybe do you want to say something too maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe how Well it's on the last point talking about colloquialism I agree you don't need this probably I think the most important thing in translation, whatever choice you make whether you try to remain successful, but very closely reasonable about And it depends on the capacity of the actors to be able to make it sound colloquial. That's the thing that's not story about. I mean you can write this completely, you can write a very difficult syntactical structure in your lines. If it's syntactically alright, then a good actor is able to work with it. And so I don't believe in things like colloquialism or trying to bring things very close. I have to bring my text close to the actors. That's what it's about. And I have to trust the actors that they will be able to work with it. Because they are the ones who are going to tell it to the audience. I'm going to tell it to the audience. That's why I made a performance text. And that's why I made a publicated text. That okay can be very close. I can keep everything in it. I don't have to make it good for them. Maybe one last thing on it. Because text is only one part of the theater performance, right? So depending on the performance, there's much more of a physicality with light, with music. There's much more of a physicality in the text. And speaking of the text, but maybe playing music. I don't see many senses and smells. So this can also portray something that could look chronically. Meaning making it clear for the audience to understand. So it's not only how it is said, but there are other devices too. This makes me feel that text is the more word. Everybody talks about text. I'm afraid in modern Greek, it's a terrible word. It's so passive. But when we're talking theater, text is the whole word. It's one part of the whole performance. Thank you all for your presentations. I think that the word, the Greek word for text, kimeno, is much richer than we tend to take it to be. Kimeno, hippo kimeno, anti kimeno. There is an old wealth of meanings, related meanings, that can lead the way to an issue that is not or was not brought up here. Namely, whether you want to talk about text, turned into performance text and performance or whatever. The key word is culture. The culture of the translator is not necessarily the culture of the performer. If you change the nations, the country, then I was wondering, would your, perhaps, your meticulous framework with the metrics and everything would be applied in, say, face-to-face society? Society, we call it drive-out society. Face-to-face society. They have different perspectives, different perspectives of how to connect oral discourse to ceremonial practices. All for that matter, going into a different example, like, say, Japanese culture, would your framework be used in such a case, or we have to face a different reality in terms of rendering an old piece, how we're going to define it into a modern performance? I just wanted to say, that's why I used, that's why equity is on the word equivalent. I didn't say equivalent. No, I say equivalent. Ah, yes, yes. But in so many different circumstances, you're looking for an equivalent, so the equivalent is not static, not culturally uniform. I think each of us really very much stress that the translation is done for a specific performance, a specific context. Oliver, I said that for you, it was the presentation of a book that is readable, or the text is readable. In fact, for a presentation, I said it for Peter Stein. So this way, it's always done for a specific audience, specific participants, actors, and then there is no general translation that can be adapted to any cultural context. It's also always very specific. It's all the same. If you don't need a comment, I always learned a lot, about the difference between the word in and out and the word text. And the word in and out is very, very distinctive. It talks about something which lies, which is probably dead. And then you need to revive it, which is the feeling that we have to talk about revival. The word text is much more open, understanding the variation between theater and text. And the idea of the text, which is behind, is much more open, much more adapted to what can be a performance. But it takes the idea of revival. The thing is, it's on the same page. We can talk a little bit about the world of presentation, the word team and the word practice, much more in this area. And another thing that's made the idea is that sometimes we use the word original instead of the text. And that is a discussion about the ideology, especially in Greece, for example, the word original, when we use it for a text tragedy, puts a frame of an ideological world, maybe, or priorities, but for me it's very dangerous for the tragedy and the text that everybody is talking about texts and not for originals. What word do you use for originals? I use it. Paraglipo. Paraglipo. Paraglipo. It's something like... Paraglipo. It's the idea of Paraglipo, but something like the Bible, but it's already a bit of a bad shift. I just want to be kind of direct on what I've said about two things that are inherent in the way of the content of the inherent structure. And you mentioned taste of taste and serenity. And that's what we direct on the active content of the content and bring you up to those two things about all brief things. Okay, you are enough of a time. If there's an urgent need for a question, please do it now or... Okay, I'm just going to read. Good morning, and I would be... I'm thankful to the organizers for giving me the opportunity of just the same use of music and dance in theater, primarily in Indian classical dance and theater, and then combining it with the great theater and dance. So the traditional great theater how it is combined with music and dance as compared to the Indian theater. There is no song, no tone, and no dance without the sound. Hence, this entire universe is enveloped with the cosmic sound. The verse from Redeshwari of the Sehga Matanda, a sixth-century Sanskrit text on musicology, is being used here as traditional benedictory verse and is highlighted the interconnections between the sound, the dance, with the premariel cosmic sound, a theme which we wish to explore through this article. In Indian tradition, the relations between dance and music are established psychologically. There is a close relation between sound and side. Music is auditory field and dance, the visual. The potential link between dance and music highlight the emotional experience. The traditional Indian texts speak very high of cosmic sound of the absolute, that is, all the anahata-naak, which is closely related to perceptible sound, or the anahata-naak, and through the sensuous medium of Shruti's tone and Swara's note of the raga, a melodic framework, one can reach closer to seeing the absolute. The Indian music traces its roots back to the Vedic literature, the earliest known corpus of knowledge available to us. The Vedas are chiefly divided into four samitras, namely Rigveda, Jejuveda, Samveda, and the Atharveda. The Vedas have been handed down from one generation to another through the medium of choral instructions, that is, the teacher used to impart knowledge to the Vedas, to his disciple, chorally, and the disciple would memorize the entire corpus without any written medium and would attain mastery over it. Then the disciple would in new course of time become master and would train the younger generation. This is the backdrop of Vedic chanting. The memorization processes entitled a lot of scientific steps and methods that would ensure the oral transmission of the huge corpus literature happens with the highest amount of accuracy, which were embedded in the chanting techniques. There is a particular way in which these compilations are to be recited and the UNESCO has inscribed the Vedic chanting as the intangible cultural heritage of human time. The IDNC plays a vital role in getting its recognition. This is the pollute from the Sharda manuscripts of the Vedas. So, among the four above mentioned Vedas, Samveda is believed to have been the source of Indian music. Samveda, interestingly, is the shortest of all the Vedas. The total number of verses in the Samveda is 1875. Amongst these, 1775 verses are from the Rig Veda and only 99 verses of this Samveda are not formed in theory, thus regarded to be the Samveda itself. The text of Rig Veda is not used in its original form for singing in the Samveda but certain changes were introduced to adopt it to singing. There were six versities of vocal inflection that are mentioned that transformed the times of Rig Veda to be regarded as altogether new Vedas. This is the pollute from the Nagri script in 1672 of Samveda. The journey of the original and development of Indian music can be traced back from the emergence of the concept of tones and tunes along with the rhythm. The emergence of tones and tunes by microtones and their arrangements. This along with the evolution of registers and scales, perception and consonances and dissonances, emergence of concept of the melodies that is raga and their classifications, evolution of architecture of Indian music, the manifestation of different musical phases and compositions, the evolution of instruments like drum, flute and youth, etc. Along with the question of origin of mela or mela krata, masculine and feminine characters of the raga and the evolution of contemplative compositions are some of the distinctive features of the study of history of Indian music. The evidences of practice of music and dance have been obtained in abundance in the archaeological excavations of different ancient sites of Indian peninsula. In one of these excavated figures a drum-like instrument is seen hanging to the neck and some pictographs of new-strated instruments are seen. In Ropla, on the banks of river Sampala, a statue of lady playing a four-string instrument was excavated along with the many pictorial references to a variety of musical instruments. Among other finds, flute, a ha, with string and percussion instruments have also been found which shows people of the Maigon era but aware of these instruments. That is Banshee, Veena and Brindandar. You can see the raw cards depicted in Nataraja dancing. It's a costume and another with a large headgear. This is the depiction. This is the raw card playing half. This is the lady which is available which is maybe 5,000 to 10,000 years old. This is the sculpture of a lady looking at the mirror. This is again a dancing pose. With the advent of the time, the vocal instrument section of Indian music gave due raritas which is reflected in the strong textual tradition of India and is manifested in the rich Indian cultural tradition as well. This is the tradition which we can see. The earlier treatise that we get as major evidence of Indian theater is the Nati Shastra or a treatise of theater a compodium composed between 200 D.C. to 200 K.D. and the authorship of this treatise is attributed to Bharatamuni. We have Dr. Bharatbukh who is an eminent scholar on this so I need not to elaborate much on the Nati Shastra. This treatise is the first and most complete work of Dramatulali that is available to us till date. It is 36 chapters or 37 and it comprises about 6000 verses and notes in prose style and verses. It addresses almost all aspects related to a performance such as acting, dance, dramatic construction, furniture, costuming, makeup, props, the organization of companies, the audience etc. quite exhaustingly such as the ventures of the topics it covers that is in the first chapter itself the text proudly proclaims I quote there is no knowledge, no craft, no science, no art, no combination and no action that cannot fall within the purview of the theatre that is Natya. The text begins with the legendary account of the origin of theatre as to how the theatre came into being in doing so it provides indications about the nature of actual theatrical practices it can be certainly revised that when the Nati Shastra was being composed the composer had Sanskrit theatre as a model in front of him he clearly mentions as to how the different characters of the play should be using different extant languages or dialects. The text further prescribes that the performance is to be done on some scale sacred ground trained by professionals in a hereditary manner its aim was both to eradicate as well as to entertain for the stage craft and classical Sanskrit drama was seen as an essential part of the sophisticated world view by the end of the 7th century under the patronage of royal courts performance belonged to professional companies that were directed by stage managers that is known as Sutradag who may also have acted this task was thought of as being analogous of the perpetual a literal meaning of Sutradag is the holder of the strings or threads the performers okay the performers were trained rigorously in vocal and physical techniques there were no prohibitions against female performers companies were well were all male all female and of mixed gender some performers played characters their own age while others played from their own of all the other elements of theater the treatise gives most attention to Avinaya and conventional to major purposes of the later its drama is regarded as the highest achievement of his Sanskrit literature it utilised strong characters such as hero that is Naita and the gestures that is Vidushaka this is the icon of Varathuni and I will not go in detail about the Natheshastra but only to tell that the Natheshastra has divided into 36 chapters out of which chapter 4 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 21, 22, 25 and 26 talk about various kinds of dance related themes at length and from 28 to 33 the text dilates upon the different aspects of music both of which together give rise to complete experience of performance of theater, the stage craft and associated themes which are described in chapter 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 I would also like to tell you about a few pictures which also give you some of the 4 forms which relate to dance and drama in the theater this picture is from a performance known as Bhant Pakir which is being performed in the northern part of India which again IGNC has documented as the world heritage documentation and you can see the theatrical elements as well as the music and dance element on this this is the Kuryatam of Kerala which is again a very beautiful example of music, dance and theatrical style which gives you a complete sight of a complete theatrical performances it is performed in Kerala this is again Dandia Ras of Gujarat which is on the western part of India and it again deals with the dance movements as well as music as well as the traditional style of theatrical art this is the northeast part where Manipura is situated and Manipura dance is again another example of musical dance, theater, everything combined into it these are all 4 forms initially but now later they have been graduated into just another 2 minutes and I am finished and I am running very fast so I just wanted to show the slide so that all the learned audience they are all learned so they can grab what I want to say this is Satriya dance from Assam again this is a theatrical form and this combines beautifully the music, dance and the theater within it this is another Chow, this is also famous for its masks which are prominent and very elegant masks and that is again a very strong theatrical performance as far as the dance and music is concerned this is of course the Varath Nathim of Tamil Nadu which we know that most of us in Greece also some of the well known exponents of Varath Nathim are here in Greece also so you can very well see that this is also a form of dance and music combined and this is the most prominent theater form this is the Yajshagana of Karnataka this again has been documented as a prominent form of music and dance combined in theater it has been done through traditions and it is a very strong costume drama played played throughout the night not like maybe 6-7-8 hours of play and that is a great performance this is the Akanada Varajshagana performance this is the Kuchipuri it is another dance form which is combined with the music and the theater drama basically this is also a drama form from the Andhra Pradesh this is the southern part of India so I mean you can see that I mean lot of music dance and things which are here and you can see the iconic temple and this is Ankyanath I just mentioned one more slide and I am just complete this is Ankyanath of Assam which also deals with the theatrical performances I just wanted to show that these all performances which have been done in the different parts of the country this is Jakara from Bengal they all are also the strong classical forms of Indian theater which also deal with the kind of classical theater which is being done in Greece where there is lot of music and dance into it so lot of commonalities here we have text like Ramayana we have text like Mahabharata we have text like Raja Harish Chitra we have the dilemma between the social cause and the eternal cause is always created among the characters and one has to choose between the social and the eternal cause and they all are beautifully depicted in all the world traditional dance forms I will not extend my time thank you very much whatever I could tell you within this period of time Thank you very much Dr. Georgi for helping us to remain within the time frame rather than make up the delay by the voting Dr. Hart grouped who as everyone in this room would know I imagine his classicist theater theorist and a scholar of classical Indian and Greek drama Dr. Georgi I am curious Ketil and whenever I come to Greece we do the next in one way or another who are saying he is a lot of people now I am going to talk about the morning and would I have to say a few words I have titled this way Transcending the Human for Divine Transcending the Human for Divine and I describe this as an Indo-European idea now why do I say Indo-European is because the ancient Indian concept about just about everything in many ways is so similar to the very ancient Greek concepts which you find in very well preserved in the texts of Minos and that can be compared and you can see that in every aspect there has been a great similarity and I see this transcending all the human towards the Divine in that part you were mentioning about the cultural aspect of the world so this is exactly how the different meaning comes in and this morning Professor Tapanen, Oliver Tapanen mentioned about priority in every text every text or every production or every translation has a priority and it is the priority of the meaning of the text or let's not use the word text but all the total performance you know, everything so in that respect aren't you only representing a world in which when there is a conflict a seeming conflict it's not a real conflict but it is a conflict which is presented before a person and the person is challenged to resolve that conflict by choosing a course of action that is essentially ethos which Aristotle puts in what do you choose as your character as your choice so that choice and purpose shows how you relate to the Divine and what is the priority now that is the way that you are wanting to be you also mentioned this thing the present day productions or translations or performances that I know from different parts of the world in the last let's say 30-40 years and the translations made they have changed the purpose as it seems to be of the action play there is a great priority insistence upon the human concerns whether those concerns are defined as the right of the individual and you are going to say well this is the way how I feel and this is my choice or it is defined as a feminist right statement of womanhood it is in terms of not just freedom and womanhood but in terms of rebellion social rebellion or putting an alternate idea that the state need not observe what the final authority of this individual need not observe or stick to what has been dictated by the state and in all these of the present times we talk more about the right of the individual the right of the social system the right of the group maybe the feminist group or maybe a group representing a certain social class so to maybe model way of thinking it is the human that becomes more important and it is the human that is made a priority a reason for watching the play investigating the play reducing the play as to how the human is important and the state is a target of rebellion but there is very little awareness of the fact that in the ancient play the individual is committed neither to the individual the single individual the person the personality nor to the state but more committed to the divine more committed because even Creon is made to admit that he had made a mistake the tragedy comes about because he is too full of himself he equates himself with the state he equates himself with the power of the state and that is of course ground enough for writing or producing plays in which you show the rebellion of the individual or human rights or intimate rights etc but the most important thing that the play right presents very clearly also the right of the individual the right of the individual to perform the rituals which are dictated by the divine law you see now this is something which is rather difficult for the modern audience to understand and that is what I want to talk about a little more for the modern audience it is difficult to understand how the eternal law or let us say the law of gods or what has been there as law or viki or justice is something which has to be not has to be followed but is the identity following that is the identity of the individual now this is the distance that has happened between the ancient world and the modern world contemporary world here perhaps I mean you may call me an old foe or someone who looks upon ancient societies in a different way but my argument is always very simple that ancient societies had an identity they had a a force of life they had choices and if we are going to perform something or if we are going to revisit any of their texts any of their ancient ways then what is important for us is to understand how they thought and what they stood for and that is much more important than trying to judge them in terms of the values of modernity or are there sometimes perhaps as an anthropologist you would be able to see this very clearly that there is a presumption in modern times not just in the so far west but everywhere in the east also that people today are mostly enlightened that we are the best informed we have the best equate we have the vision of history we know just about everything so if we visit let's say if we visit through a play let's say the Athens of late fifth century we see then we are just trying to look around and see and see how they fall short of our men how they fall short of our men we need now I think this needs to be reversed it's far more important I'll take just two minutes I think it is far more important to understand what was the priority because that's going to help our society from India I come to Greece to learn something about here you see then I can take back home something valuable so if I visit a text of 600 BC then let me see what is the most important thing there and the whole argument of the play which of course begins in transgression and the horror of making a transgression but which has the bigger of rebellion from both sides oppression of the state represented by Greece and Antiboni as somebody who is acting against it not just speaking but acting she does the act right in the you know in the second or third scenes that comes to be proved as the right things right at the end so that is the essential message of the play and I think why we may choose our own methods of production with plenty of music or little music or this kind of costume of that the main purpose should be to understand that what is cosmic what is big and what is greater is far more important than the human which is small I mean that's the feeling we get at least I get when I sit in a Greek amphitheater because everything which is on the land is small but above that is the big the star and the sky and the cosmos and the sea very often the sea behind the theater and that physically represents the cosmos so it is the humans trying to understand the cosmic which is the Indo-European and which is relating the human to the divine Thank you very much who is a professor of musical studies here at the University of Athens and he is a specialist in cultural anthropology and ethno-musicology and he is going to talk about consciousness and power the role of myth in ancient Greek drama in professional culture Thank you all for being here it's an honor Martin Heidegger a German philosopher being influenced by the translation and by Helderlin of Sophocles antiquity he spoke many times about that of the play we owe to him what I call them caveats caveat number one is what in Greek is called the tradition of epichleros focuses on antiquity's legal and political status within the palace her privilege to be the earth according to the legal instrument of the epichlerate and thus she is protected by Jews according to the legal practice in classical Athens Creon is obliged to marry his closest relative which is Eman to the late king's daughter in what is called an inverted marriage which would oblige heaven to produce a son an heir for his dead father in law Creon would be deprived of grandchildren and heirs to his lineage a fact which provides a strong realistic motive for his hatred this is a very very important issue to draw our attention to this issue explains his immense hatred against the antiquity caveat number two the essence of humanity in his old onman and Sophocles' antiquity Heiriger focuses on the chorus sequence of trophy and antistrophe line 278 the chorus says that there are many strange things on earth but nothing stranger than mine than the human being Heiriger showing this the essence of humanity the authentic Greek definition of humankind is according to him the one who is strangest of all the essence is humankind captures the extremes what is in greek called tobinotaton and of course in greek the word dinos the adjective may stand for something positive as well as negative dinos the catastrophe of full situation is dinon in the sense that he is the terrible violent one and also in the sense that he uses violence against the overpowering a man is twice dinon is double terrible what is terrible at two levels is very important that we get back to this caveat number three transcendence in a series of lectures he gave Heiriger gave in 1942 again influenced by and responding to Helderlin's hymn the Easter he considers the antigony takes on the destiny she has been given but does not follow a path that is opposed to that of the humankind so she respects her destiny but she doesn't go about to oppose or to negate what is understood as the legacy of humanity described in the form of so when antigony opposes creon her suffering the uncanny these strains troublesome situations is between and between what she speaks is her supreme action let me turn to anthropology physical and cultural homo sapiens sapiens this is our species everything we discuss from an anthropological point of view refers to homo sapiens sapiens whether of ancient times or modern time why sapiens sapiens according to anthropologist this is the capacity of the species to reflect on his reflections is double reflection double reflection yields choice there is the choice of everything behind everything we do there is always an ego accompanying the sense of reality and the meanings attached to the action so there is the choice of eco proliferation through differentiation differentiation on the at the level of reflection each time we reflect and we doubly reflect doubly reflect because other mammals they can reflect but not doubly reflect as far as we know so whenever we doubly reflect we differentiate by differentiating ego appears in a new form so the one reality that the choice of homo sapiens sapiens as endowed as with is ego consciousness the other one is ego transcendence whereby differentiation stops and integration takes its place this dialectic between ego proliferation ego consciousness and ego transcendence I call I use the words the common parlance words the political and the spiritual by political I mean anything we do within however we interpret and realize the world in the sense of an ego consciousness being positive negative however defined and assessed and by spiritual I mean anything that implies transcendence of ego that could be momentary that could be more steady and therefore we can talk about altered states of consciousness as realized states of consciousness what is the implication of this physical anthropological theory for our purpose here is that reflecting on the social level spirituality and politics are behind the dialectic between consciousness and power and they are always rendered in a two-fold there is nothing we deal with without the aspect of consciousness however defined and approached and without the aspect of polygons either in the form of sharing for the good of the society or manipulating or unaming where ego thrives that's a political dimension choice where ego loses its fervor then spirituality merits covered number five the dialectic of consciousness and power this is the core it forms the core of human culture since the dawn of humanity according to cultural anthropological studies which are always studies of culture myth and ritual and compass the essence of the dialectics between consciousness and power we are not to identify consciousness as seen before as seen before as a purely spiritual endeavor and when we focus on the society then consciousness becomes through myth through ritual through ceremonial performances becomes a way to talk about the strange aspects of the notaton that Heidegger wanted us to focus on as my friend and good colleague Barat said earlier the historical, the western historical of modernity changed our perspective of the world I'm well aware because I have done extensive work among a Greek traditional community on Carpathos Island whereby people sing one another, their ideas, their thoughts and there is rhyming professor there is allegory there is everything so there is a performative way of negotiating your place in the world it is important to differentiate between what we call same cultures and guilt cultures I don't have the time to get into the details but same and guilt are not the same thing because in the one case you are the individual and you are subject to the laws of the society in the other case you are not the individual, you are the person representing the families the families representing the history of your culture so this struggle between the state and culture the community and individuals in power is of fundamental significance to understanding the dynamics of a particular society so let me say that one would say that Antigony is a perfect example of civil disobedience civil disobedience but civil disobedience as Heidegger noted the inotaton an aspect the manifestation of the inotaton where does it come from of course the great dramatist can make a beautiful, a very Vinon drama attract the attention of his community is the real essence behind the myth or the myths informing the play this one, that one, that aspect cannot be understood merely through aesthetics there has to be a spiritual awareness otherwise the deeper meaning of the myth is lost forever so the same culture which relies on its traditions actually lived and enacted traditions they may have ways towards rediscovering the hidden secrets of humanity this is very important because not only discovering out there in the thin air the society will provides its people the necessary equipment to do so it's not a metaphysical speculation the divine other so it seems to me that any attempt at going deeper into interpretation, interpreting or translating the great heritage of the ancient great tragedy and other heritage in that sense should focus on the hidden meanings of of the myths what are myths, myths are stories but what kind of stories, not folk tales these are the crystallized perceptions of communities in their effort to understand the human condition so when they are uttered when they are articulated they are of course entertainment but what kind of entertainment one that bridges what we today call secular as opposed to divine spiritual but for those people there was no difference it was one and spirituality is the way to reaching to attaining the highest which is self-realization self-realization in the context and with respect of others what has been delivered passed on to you and just to finish I'll use a great word tradition we usually think the paradigm is what we hand over from one generation to the other but the great word has another aspect paradigm surrendering if you receive something from the older generation without surrendering there is no way you can attain self-realization or come to the understanding of the divine meaning as a realized consciousness so we will begin there is a a change in the program so this there has been a there has been a the next session and be the first speaker with us the first speaker of the other session because he has to cut what the trailer says Vios Lapis who he is now forgive me for this because I have been the information for a moment and I wanted to meet his professor he had a postgraduate program of theater studies at the Open University of Cyprus thank you and he will speak just you go ahead and give us the time yes the time is well I'm going to be speaking about Anne Parsons Antigonic and I'm going to be claiming that this is a text worthy of our attention because it actually is many texts together it's a for lack of a better term I call it a transtextual palimpsest which I understand of course is a terribly pompous and pretentious term but as I'm going to try to show this is a palimpsest which is also highly intellectual and which is also a kaleidoscope of transtextuality in the sense that it incorporates a plethora of different discourse types different modes of initiation different literary or bariliterary genres including parody, citation, commentary and so on and so forth now why do I call it a palimpsest to begin with Carson the famous Canadian poet herself is highly receptive and highly attuned to the idea of the palimpsest I'm quoting here an interview to Aitken in which she points out that texts of ancient Greece come to us in wreckage and I admire that the combination of layers of time that you have when looking at a papyrus in the third century BC and then copied and then wrapped around the mummy for a couple hundred years and then discovered and put in a museum and pieced together by nine different gentlemen and put back in a museum and brought out again and photographed and put in a book all those layers add up to more and more life and multi-layer text is precisely what on Carson's Antigone is to begin with the book itself has a distinctly handmade feel it consists of recto pages the verso is blank so you have recto pages with hand inked blocks of text alternating with illustrations printed on translucent and that's important because you can superimpose the diaphanous value over the text page and get a combination of text and image which is not normally possible in conventional typography so a reader can choose to simply turn the volume page in order to get directly to the text reader can choose to approach the text first through the volume page so that Carson's words form an amalgam with the illustrations which are I should mention by Bianca still so it is a sort of a multination that seems to be in some cases invited or indeed imposed by the physical arrangement of underlying text blocks and overlaying illustrations in certain cases this is a case in point the one you have before you, I hope, yes you have it here you see the blocks of text, no not really and then here comes Tairesias and then episode 500 letters, the blocks of text are arranged very carefully and cleverly on the top and bottom of the page with the different zone of the page left empty and of course the central zone is the zone that's occupied on the volume page on the translucent volume page in which the images, you know, the horse the horse's dimensions are carefully calculated so as not to extend beyond the corresponding central register so as to leave the top and the bottom of the page blank so the result is that you can read the text without the influence even through the superimposed image so what's achieved in this way is a fusion of text and image which obviously is intentional and therefore significant what's significant it may have is of course a matter of speculation I'm thinking that the image which is a horse's lower torso it's two front legs entangled thread from a reading spool this image taken in combination with the ominous stage direction here comes Tiresias makes me think that one needs to place that hobbled horse in context and what's the context in that part of the play the context of course is that in response to Tiresias's warnings Crayon will rush to liberate until he is on the underground prison but he is belated, woefully belated diligence will of course develop a big inadequate so like Janke's terms hobbled horse Crayon will run fast but not nearly fast enough so this interaction between image and text which may originate in graphic novel aesthetics is an interaction that transcends as I said before convention of typography to achieve a new synthesis of text and image the reader is forced to collate the image with the text and the text with the image thereby intertwining image and text into new and unexpected combinations so that's one way in which Ann Carson's Antigonid is a palimpsest now I also said that it is an intertextual palimpsest or maybe transtextual palimpsest and I'm going to say a few words on why I think that in general Antigonid and Carson's Antigonid has the same dramatic persona as Sophocles' Antigonid but and Carson has innovated in at least one case she has included a person called Nick hence the title he is designated Nick is designated as a newt part he is always on stage and he measures things and in the final stage direction we read excellent omnes everyone exits except Nick who continues measuring so he is a perpetual presence this Nick person is a perpetual presence on stage before the first speaking characters appear and he remains on stage even after the whole cast has exited, has departed here is a title page which even graphically even in terms of design and layout makes clear this combination between Antigone and Nick so even typographically Nick is full rounded who is Nick? who the hell is Nick? Nick is less a character I think and more a linguistic construct a textual construct the composite organ is made up of homonymy wordplay and intertextuality first of all Nick can easily be associated and you would have thought of that already I am sure Nick can easily be associated with the expression in the Nick of Time and Eurydice makes this association obvious when she says have you heard this expression the Nick of Time? what is that? Nick I ask my son what is I? Nick I ask my son so one of Carson's characters points to the possibilities of homonymy the possibilities of wordplay, the possibilities of linguistic inventiveness afforded by this character Nick so I wonder whether we may not actually go one step further and try to see how Nick and the associative wordplay that his name in Barrages can fit into the general scheme of the play in the Nick of Time implies the last minute rescue was a poor escape but of course in Sophocles' Antigone timing is almost always bad and the time is an agent of disaster Antigone manages indeed to escape in the Nick of Time after the first burial of Polyvises but she is caught in the act during the second burial when a windstorm subsides just in time in the Nick of Time indeed and reveals Antigone to the guards watching over Polyvises his body and when Creon at the end of the play finally heals Tiresias' warnings and rushes to Antigone's rescue the fleeting hope that the girl may be saved in the Nick of Time is of course belied as soon as it turns out that Antigone has hanged herself in her subterranean prison which of course is called Nick in British slang Creon had hoped that by arresting or by nicking Antigone he would be able to keep both the city and his own family in good shape or in good nick but he has failed miserably Antigone's suicide precipitates an avalanche of further suicides animal suicide urethane suicide which of course devastates Creon's house bringing it down in one fell through now Nick of course is as I said is a textual construct he is of course a character or pretends to be a character his name is spelled with a capital N Nick with a capital N cannot fail to evoke the devil himself Old Nick in English or even Old Nick Machiavelle the archetypal stage villain in Dracotian drama first mentioned by Shatili Mamiyan in his 1641 play The Antichrist who makes this association now let me take a few let me say a few words in the five or so minutes that are left about translation as adaptation and Parsons Antigone Antigone presents itself as a translation but it is of course much more than that it is for one thing it is rife with creative wordplay one case of wordplay is appointed out by the guardian theater critic Charlotte Kiggins who says that Parsons produces a memorandum line archives of grief I see falling on this house the original Greek at this point reads archaia from ancient times I see the trumps of the dead how does Parsons move from the ancient e-bills of the lab as it now is to archives of grief well she moves there as Charlotte Kiggins the guardian critic points out because of the accidental phonetic similarity between the archaia which means ancient and the English word archives but of course one is cannot help thinking here that the English word archives comes itself ultimately from the grief although from a different group work the word archaia public records which in turn drives from the word archae government or rule the Antigone myth in its variants from Sophocles to an Parsons record is an archive archaia of the ancient e-bills archaia Pemata which have beset the release of Edipus who have been holding sway archaic in these generation after generation finally and Carson engaged in again a very interesting sort of intellectual dialogue with previous translations of Sophocles Antiphony primarily the translation made in late Victorian times by Sir Richard Jett the famous Greek scholar the famous British scholar Greek literature there is this point where Carson's characters in particular Creole suddenly switched to what looks like the old Elizabethan Jacobean idiom and upon closer inspection this turns out to be chunks of quoted text from Richard Jett's late Victorian translation which of course sounded archaic when it was published because it evoked the idiom of Elizabethan and Jacobean tragedy oh shameless thou art a miscreant to prosecute thy known father and so forth what I think Carson is doing here is that she makes visible the alimpsestic nature of her text and she brings out the fact that often goes unacknowledged that every translation must confront and must assimilate not only the source text but also that text's previous translations okay every translation comes in a long line of earlier translations I'm going to do myself that I should be finishing so this is I'm going to be finishing one minute this is a act of self-awareness on Carson's part this allusion to previous translations but also of course and Carson is also a classical scholar she's a philologist she has taught McGill University in Canada in Montreal now she's teaching I believe at Michigan so she's very much aware of the technical aspects of a philologist's work and she incorporates even those aspects of her those very technical aspects of a philologist's work work into her own text when for instance she has Hemon break with his father the alarming news of popular discontent with him Hemon is of course hesitant to break the news to his father and very interestingly he couches his hesitation in the philological jargon of actual criticism yet I could not would not do not know how to say you're wrong it may be some other way I don't know might turn out I delete this line which is what a classical scholar does I am your defender I'm yours yet I hear there is talk there are shadows this girl here I pause it and let you know this girl does not deserve to die the town is sad and so on and so forth so to conclude as well as exploring the limits of translation and even pushing them to extremes and Carson Centiconic also engages in an exploration of its own textual and transsexual nature to say its relation manifesto hidden with other texts and I'm quoting here Gerard Genet's definition in a book called very appropriately Palimpsest and even its transsexuality includes but is not limited to its incorporation of a variety of different translation traditions end of textual philological scholarship as we just saw as well as other complex texts similarly, pastiche, parody reverse translation all of which branch out in all sorts of directions as well as focalizing Carson's core concern a true theme which is translation language and textuality thank you so much our next speaker Mr. Captain Motto who has come from Tabani as you said he is the director an artistic director of the Romo Ex Machina and he will speak the title of his speech is performing media theatrical performance as a way of understanding ancient society and classical philological 15 good afternoon and first of all I have to send the degree to CC who is the who is the the director of the Romo Ex Machina who invited me to his presentation and I am coming from Japan as he explained and I am Seattle director and maybe even I think today many of the presentation we saw for a lesson was somehow done by the time of the researcher in the way of the researchers of taking care of the ancient tragedy and for me, I also climbed the research of history but today I try maybe the CC invited me to come here as kind of representing the artistic side of the members of this community here and I will explain about something what I saw for the taking care with the ancient tragedy but to show something what I did as creation it's not easy or it's almost impossible here to present because it's much easier and also it's always the only way to present is something on stage so today what I explain is what I here explain is the only thing that why I am doing that kind of thing which I did or maybe the word professor Oliver Sampreng used in this morning in the beginning of this morning that what is my priority because there's so many Seattle director maybe from that time of the ancient grief until now there's also many director creating something with the ancient tragedy and also if we are thinking about our contemporary in Japan also although we don't receive nothing directly from the ancient grief society still we have many production of the grief tragedy and for me like for example maybe some of you might know or might solve one of the the performance of Medea every pedacil Medea because that was touring Akhen also and his name is and he created his own version of Medea and he said using the every pedacil Medea and for me as a kind of a performance if I ignore that this based on every pedacil there's so many things interesting or how the performer of the creation very focused on stage and doing something very nice as a kind of performing art but for me it is nothing related every piece because how he taking care the text although he read the Japanese translation of that he just took a kind of the image or his own image of the what is mother or what can be the mother who is trying to kill his child and what is the emotion of the mind when the mother is trying to kill his child because of his own with this I think it's nothing in the main focus of the performers himself but only the Ninamawa want to bring that because this kind of the harmony of the mother having the spread image one side of the love to his own children and also to the other side to the kind of the purpose which she should do it's very difficult in the Japanese traditional performing arts like Kabuki or like Bunako there are so many of the same thing but for my own understanding I think the Athenian tragedy are somehow quite different and still I know that there are so many people after the time of the Athenian democracy and where the Athenian tragedy are first performed there are so many people who try to put something of their own society but it's something always a bit away from the reality of the very old time and it's this the very big influence are from the the Latin people or Roman people who think that the Greek antiquity is very important