 Before you proceed, Rewind Kidog, you said, then being appreciated, you referring to the leader, being appreciated by the followers. Highlight a bit more about that because I believe that one has an effect on the productivity of the work environment. Yes. It's very different for you to be given a certain title but also being given the instruments of power. And that's why during the inauguration we see the president be given the sword, the institution and all these things. To ensure that he feels that he has the capacity to perform and do according to the mandate that he has been given. So now let's bring it back now to the office. We have seen and I'm sure you have been to the universities, institutions and all that. When you refer to your lecturers, do you refer to them by master who and who or is it doctor, professor who and who? Daktari. Daktari. And if you there say Mr. Yes. Or the leader name. Yes. You'll be in for a lot of trouble. Showing that you don't appreciate where they are. Or saying sir instead of professor. Of professor. Yes. And we have one sir church. So if you there say Mr. Church. That will be a big offense for you. Yes. But the thing is when we place them in those positions, do you give them all the powers or even the how to actually perform. And you see as the employees and all that we always complain. But you don't facilitate their stay at that position in a good way. By doing our role or playing our role very well. Every other time we critiquing, we just complaining about how they are. And you see we have to accept the mere fact that they in that position and we are where we are. Because we all want to be at that top position. But we don't understand that it comes with a lot of responsibility. They also want to be somewhere else. Exactly. And that's why when you look at the Abraham Maslow hierarchy of needs. Yes. Everybody wants to get to the actualization. For them being at that esteem where we tend to appreciate them. Recognize them for what they have done. That's not where they want to be. They want to get to a point whereby they have actually self actualized. You understand. And with this that tells you when they in that position it is a very good position for us. The employees why cause for them. They are not motivated by the salaries or the big cars and all that. They are after transforming the lives of the other people. Living a legacy. This is where we need to appreciate because everybody has to go through that particular path. Where there are those who are quite lucky they might find themselves in those positions. Straight from say the college and all that. But it doesn't happen every other time. Unless it is a family business where you have a shop. And you are the manager in that local shop. So if in this position whereby we have a leader. It's very important for us to understand that you also have a role to play. As the employees. To ensure that the organizations perform well. And also our leader is appreciated. The issue is when they are celebrated we have an issue. And it's very important that we feel included in that particular achievement. Question Kagondo. During the process of self actualization for this leader. Do you think it brings about the dark side of transformational leadership? The dark side of? If they are not able to self actualize. Absolutely. And this is where we find ourselves beating ourselves quite highly. And especially when you feel you have not delivered. We all want to be the wangari matai of this nation. We want to be the Madiba Mandela of this world. But if this is our desire and we don't get there. What do we do? We self sabotage. And this is where you find so many leaders who are so bitter. With those who are on them. Because they feel you are not supporting me in the best way possible. To get to where I want to be. Because the thing is this is a teamwork. This is where we all participate in this particular journey. And as much as we say I am there to be celebrated. You also contributed to that. And this is where we need to appreciate ourselves in the levels that we are in. So the way we treat them will reflect back on us. Isentually. But bounce back. Yes. There is a recall. That effect is surely there. Because when we have bitter leaders. Then that means you are not happy at the workplace. Because if they have issues to deal with. And you see one question that I ask people is. Yes we look at them as our heroes. We look at them as the source of hope. But where do they go to? Who supports them? Do you get to think about their well-being? You are always complaining about that manager. You are complaining about the president. But do you get to think about their well-being? Are we adding salt to the wound? Or are we making their stay comfortable? And creating an environment that they can be able to actually perform. Because as we complain about something as followers. Our leaders are also complaining about something as leaders. Yes. Yes. That's a funny bit of this. Yes. They are also complaining about something as leaders. Yes. Yes. Yes. Actually a question. So now. What is our responsibility as the youths? Given that we have these bitter leaders with us. Actually it is you who can answer that. You tell us. Now you tell us. What is our responsibility as youths? You tell us now. As a youth. I think that's very difficult. Because it's a psychological issue. It's a psychological issue. And that's why I was trying to get the psychological input from Kagondo. But from an individual perspective. I will say at that point I will try as much as possible to be human. Because that's why we are having this conversation. Because I don't understand whether youths understand this particular aspect of transformational leadership. And that all they play. Yes. Yes. But you're saying it's difficult to understand. It's very difficult because do our leaders talk about these things? One of the last time you heard about a leader talking about it. I'm really going through this. Whatever you're saying about me on social media is affecting me in this way. Do they really talk about this? So it's always us criticising. It's always us withdrawing from the emotional bank account. So they are always pouring. And that's why I brought up the aspect of social media. So the leader in turn doesn't actually tell us how they feel. And they delete their accounts. Delete their posts. Or say you know what, I'm out of this place. He won't see me again. It's toxic. Is that how it should be? Remember you said earlier that leaders should embrace criticism. It is. And positive one in that case. But if it is negative then we have to look for healthy mechanisms to deal with it. When you say that they are deleting, we have different people responding or dealing with challenges in different ways. That those that actually take a flight and they run for their lives. And that's where they delete their accounts. They delete those posts because for them they can't stand the heat of the moment. They are those that are actually going to fight. And I've seen like my area MCA, whenever someone tries to challenge him he gives you a piece of his mind. And I'm left there wondering is this really what you want from our leader? Because that tells you for them they are not able to like really absorb criticism in a very good way. They are those that will just stay there. And for them they just freeze and they will do absolutely nothing about it. And this is the question here that comes also is, is that a reflection of who we are? It is. It is. It's a reflection of who we are. We began by saying that before the leader, before the titles that we have, we have the individual. I'm a person. Before I'm a counseling psychologist, I'm actually me. You understand? Before you're the TV host, you have your personal life. Before she's the scientist, she has her personal life. You understand? And this is what will mola us and make us the kind of a leader that will be. And the thing is because we all have challenges, we all have issues, we all have those weaknesses. Are we redeemed to a point whereby we can be able to surpass and overcome those challenges in a healthy way. Because the challenges, most of them, depending on the history, where they are coming from, they tag along. All those become bagages and they carry along to the leadership. If I never dealt with this particular issue, then be one that is going to present itself at some point in your leadership. The thing is, yes, we have this criticism, say, on the social medias and all that. And remember, Kathleen was talking about the resources that we have, who are surrounding you. And the question is, are you the one who is running your account? Do you have some support system alongside surrounding you? Because the thing is, when there's a lot of pressure, when there's a lot of challenges, where do you run to? And this is why I was asking the question, when we have the leaders who we look up to as our heroes, who is their hero in this particular case? Exactly, yes. Why? Because for them they are breaking down at night, in silence, behind those social media walls, yet they are doing nothing, to ensure that they are okay and that they are with. Remember when they are whole, they are okay, mentally okay, then they can be able to perform well. Exactly. A good example is Elon Musk. He is a transformational leader. But now recently we have seen him disseminating information that every person who works for him should be at the office at least 40 hours a week. That was a reactive response. But what brought it? Something brought it up. Something brought it up. So as people who are being governed, do we take time to actually look at our leaders from a human perspective? I'm aware of an event coming up. Yes, we actually do. So we have an event this Wednesday. We will be hosting one of the presidential aspirants and we will be talking about transformational leadership. So this is one of our various things that we do as future leaders Kenya, where we try as much as possible to disseminate information to the youth. And of course this is why we need to have this particular conversation about the importance of transformational leadership in the country. So what should we be looking out for when it comes to this event? Can go to and then I'll come back to you. Yes, we have one of the most amazing guys that we have around. He has overcome challenges. And he has portrayed himself as a transformational leader. That is Saakigame. And the thing is when you talk about youth and leadership, the gap that we have is that most of them, they don't have mentors or people that they can look up to. All that we have, it could be shobis but we don't have the true definition of who a transformational leader is. So expect a lot of insights from this particular event where we'll be able to discuss and talk about what exactly it means and the question that we have been asking ourselves what should the youths do? That will be answered in that particular event because you also have a mandate. We always say that the youth are the future leaders the leaders of tomorrow. But the thing is the future is here with us. And what can we do to ensure that the world, our nation, our families, our societies and we as individuals we have been transformed to a point whereby we can actually perform and be productive in every other circle that we are in because the thing is if I as an individual I haven't worked on myself then well, wherever I am the organizations that I'm working in they can never feel my effect. So many of us will go through school but the school doesn't get to feel us. So many of us will be working in a certain organization but the organization doesn't feel our impact. So the thing is what is our position as the young people and a lot in addition to that will be what we will be discussing. Yes, I like what Kagondu is really saying. So we'll be debunking a lot on the power plan to transformational leadership. And where is it? Baza, Baza Plaza. Baza Plaza. Yes, from 2 to 5 pm. 2 to 5 pm. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, 8th of June. 8th of June. It will be on a Wednesday. Yes, yes. So basically just like Kagondu was saying we'll look at the roadmap because more often than not transformational leaders will begin with the end in mind. This is what I want to do. But what is the roadmap? And then we'll try and look at it from all facets. At the end of the day what we want to achieve is the realistic development of what transformational leadership is all about. I want us to meet this conversation to a close. And as we do so I want to give you time to have a parting shot a final view on this particular issue even as talk about the role of the youth when it comes to transformational leadership even as giving your parting shot. Let me start with you. As youths and as ambassadors of this country it is our role, it is our mandate for us to influence the change that we want to see in the future. We carry a heavy burden for the generations that are coming up we carry a heavy burden for the generations or the people that are lost within us. So in our own spectrums of life let us try as much as possible to influence positive change to question policies that are disadvantages to us and to influence advocacies that are of benefit to us in whatever we are doing are you a business owner, are you in employment are you starting a young family whatever it is or rather wherever you are in life try and influence the positive change that you would like to see. How are we going to find you on social media? Kathleen Moreithi on all social media avenues. Yes, yes. All right. Yes, we are where we are of our forefathers, what they did there before and remember what we do today we are going to be judged harshly by history those who come after us we always complain about the leaders that we have but remember we all have a personal responsibility individually to do what we can remember we are all leaders in our different capacities say at home, at the workplace and all that and you see the beauty about leadership it has a ripple effect when you transform yourself when you work on yourself those around you will feel the warmth so do something about yourself work on yourself, let's stop complaining about the leaders that we have because we have a mandate as individuals on the social medias you can find me as Kagonju Junior on all platforms or Mindcare Africa on all platforms, talk about the IG YouTube and so forth. Thank you so much for coming that was a nice conversation I loved it, of course it's all about ensuring that we build a strong leadership style among our youth so that the youth know who they are going to choose why they should not choose A, B and why they should choose C and D and of course thank you so much Kagonju Junior and Kathleen Asadasana I appreciate your presence That was the end of this conversation why in the morning my name is Ram Maguko we are taking a short break to be back with more in a bit it has been all about transformational leadership we are taking a short break to be back after this break