 Jackie Cation joins us. Let me give you a proper introduction. Jackie Cation is a comic. She's a podcaster, writer, actor. She claims to be a bottle washer, but only for attention. That's what you claim in your press. But I've never seen you really bottle wash. She has a brand new album. It's called I am not the hero of this story just came out. It was number one on iTunes and Amazon the first week of its release. It's also critically acclaimed. In the 11 fear of her podcast, the dork forest, where she talks with people about what they love to do, think about and collect. She calls it all things dorky. And she also has a new podcast on the Nerdist network with Laurie Kilmartin. It's called the Jackie and Laurie show. Welcome back, Jackie Cation. Thank you, David Feldman. So you're on Skype outside your house, where I recorded your podcast. Yes. And, uh, and I want to is climbing inexorably towards the, uh, the, oh, I wonder if he's gonna just don't don't just always he's gonna. We have, um, we're growing some zucchinis and he's decided to just eat the leaves. But the great thing about zucchinis is that you plant one plant, you get 900 zucchinis. So I'm going to let him do that. One year we planted zucchinis and I planted six zucchini plants accidentally. And I flired people at zucchinis, um, at the Home Depot. So underneath their windshield leprosy. Are you a garden? Do you garden? I do. I like, I do a vegetable garden. My husband likes flowers. He does flowers in the front yard. And I do vegetables in the backyard. We've already gotten, because I live in Los Angeles, we've already gotten a couple of tomatoes because we planted the first weekend of April. It goes with baseball season. Boy, you're just, you're just normal and happy and healthy. And everybody loves, everybody loves you. I am the golden retriever of stand-up comedy, you know. There's nobody who doesn't like me. You know what? Your service comic, you really are. You should wear one of those vests. Seriously. I'm a, I've described myself as Maria Bamford's service animal. I calm her down sometimes when we're traveling. She doesn't touch my hair. I'm okay with that. And, uh, so the, uh, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's a beautiful day here in Los Angeles. I'm pretty excited about it. And, uh, and I haven't talked to you in an age. So thanks for so much for asking me to be on the show. This is neat. I am so excited to have you on the show because you were one of the first guests I had on the show. You are, and we did our comedy central specials together. And are you fidgeting with something? What are you doing? There's some, what is that? There's, what is that? I don't, I'm not doing anything. Oh, I hear that. It might be the wind. Sorry about that. Okay. I'm passing wind in New York. It can't possibly be reaching Los Angeles. Is this the butterfly effect? That's what, it's, it can happen at any time. The ripples. Uh-huh. I, I, I do think you are a service comic. When I see you, I calm, like I'm calming down right now. When did you do your first podcast? It would have been September of 2006. Early, early, early. So early days of the, of the podcasting world for sure. Yeah. I'm going to ask you about that. I find that very curious. September of 2006. And it was the Dork Forest. Right. Right. The Dork Forest, I did a joke. It was based on the fact that I just, I did this joke about who I was willing to hang out with. Because I was willing to hang out with almost anyone because I'm a big dork. But how deep into the Dork Forest was I willing to go to find someone I wasn't willing to hang out with. And, and it turns out it was the war reenactment guys. But we didn't, we didn't know that then. We didn't know that then. And, and it turns out specifically it was the World War II reenactment guys. Because that's insane. Still people alive from that one. Let's wait till everybody's dead before you play the game. And, which side were they, who were they, the Japanese, the Germans, the Americans? They were, they were, it was this episode, it was actually an episode of the Dork Forest that I had to delete. It was about a guy who went to different garage sales to get World War II paraphernalia. And he would only buy Nazi paraphernalia. And then he would only sell it to Jews. It was such a weird, like, line of demarcation. I was like, that, that you have reached the two dorky for me. What is happening? Yeah. And then we let it go. Let it, it was the only episode that, that I, I just deleted. Okay. I think we're getting a little wind. Okay. So I don't know what to do about that. September of 2006 was the iPod. Yes, there was an iPod. So it was available as a podcast. The iPhone is 10 years old. Okay. Were you being distributed through iTunes? Is that where most of your listeners came from? Entirely. It was, it was a podcast through, in 2006, there was, like, you could do a podcast, it was just a phone in situation. It was called blog talk radio. And they still do it, but they were early adopters of this thing where you could just sit on the phone like we're doing, but the, but the website would record it for you and then they would upload it to iTunes. What kind of response did you get when it first went up in 2006? Pretty, pretty light. Pretty light response. It was, well, because here's the great thing about blog talk at the time is it had a live chat room that went with this. It was essentially a conference call, right? It was a conference call that was being recorded and then there was a live chat room during it. So everybody would call in and then I, I from my computer would connect people sort of like a radio station. And then we'd all have this group conversation. Wait a second. When I did it at your house, I had a phone in. Right. It went from phoning in to phoning in. I would phone in and everyone would sit at my house. And then yes, we would all just sort of sit around in the living room with different extensions. It was really dumb. So what year did I do your podcast that way? You must, you had to have done it before I think 2009 or 2010 because then I switched over to a prerecorded situation where there was no more chat room and I would record it off of the board and then I would upload it to Libsyn, right? Because blog talk radio did took care of the sort of the hardware work or the software work of setting it to iTunes and tagging it and getting a little website together. Did they come to you or did you go to them? I went to them because what I had heard was other comics were doing prerecorded and I got reviewed by, I think it was Max Fun, Saudi Young America. They had reviewed the Dork Forest those early years and had made fun of the sound quality. So I was like, hey, if people who are listening to the show want to donate, I will buy some equipment, prerecord and learn how to edit. And so that had to be 2009, 2010. And so you had to have done it in like 2008. I guess so, I guess so. And have you learned how to edit? Yeah, I can edit, but I do. What happened about two episodes into it is that I had probably 500 listeners at that point, maybe more, maybe a thousand. And that's a lot. It was a lot for having done it for three or four years. It was like that. Now it's a lot better. I mean, it isn't like Mark Maron numbers or anything, but it's respectable, right? Probably. I mean, my advice to anybody, we don't need to talk about numbers, but my advice to anybody who's thinking about doing a podcast is if you can get 500 people to listen to you, that's, yeah, do it. You know, that's enough. That's, that is enough. It genuinely is. And so, and the only reason I mentioned the actual numbers is because I'm a huge fan of transparency. And people are like, did it change your life? No, it only changed my life because it gave me an extra task to do every week. And it has, I mean, and the fans of the show, when it was 500 and now that it's whatever it is, we're thousands, it's, those people are amazing. They're just the nicest people because we're sort of friends, you know? I mean, they, but they're also sane friends because they know that I don't know them. They know me a lot better than I know them because of the podcast. But yeah, the Libsyn, like I had heard that like, I think it was Marin or Pardo or other comics, right? We're going through this thing called Libsyn.com and you pay them 20 bucks a month and they have, they make a little website for you. They upload it to iTunes and make an app for you. And that was back when everybody had a different app for their podcast. And I think there still is a door forced app, but I don't think most of my listeners just listen to it through their own podcasting app or a Stitcher or something like that. Are you with Libsyn? Yeah. Yeah, it's always been on Libsyn. Yeah. Yeah. I did, I did a panel at a radio show one time as a radio convention. And it was a panel about podcasting. And everybody in the audience, there were a bunch of people in the audience and the moderator who just wanted to talk about monetizing it. And at the end of, we were like, we did it for an hour at like 52 minutes into this thing. A woman stood up and asked a question and she said, how do you get it on iTunes? And we all sat there just and realized we should have started at the beginning. Like when you explain what podcasting is, you're like, okay, what you have to do is you have to record the thing and then you have to put it on a website. And then the website, if you pay them, and it's and that's a real standardized, you know, 20 bucks a month kind of thing, we'll do it. Let me ask you a question. Please. Steve Martin gave an interview with Charlie Rose, which I recommend to everybody. It must have been 10 years ago. And Steve said, whenever I'm at a party, somebody will walk up to me and say, how do you make it as a standup? Right? How do you get an agent? How do you get a manager? How do you get on The Tonight Show? How do you get into movies? He said, nobody ever asks me, how do you get good? Yeah. He said, if somebody asked me how to get good, that I can explain because that's all I focus on is getting better. He said, being good at something means you don't have to ask at parties, how do you get on The Tonight Show? They'll come to you. Now, my question about podcasting is this. I think if you get good as a standup, you will have justice because people will find you. You know how to do it. You know what clubs to go to, you know what doors. If you can, if you consistently make a room full of people laugh, there will be work for you. And if you give it, that's what I was told, right? And if you give it, even if you look at it in terms of sweeping one year horizons, where then you take account of how you're doing, you can put up with all the frustration because you look back and you say, well, this is what I accomplished over a year. And it's tangible. In standup, it's tangible. You can point and it's undeniable. The failure of this success is undeniable. Does the same apply to podcasting? I think so. I think it's a different piece of advice that I received. How do you get good is in the world of podcasting, it's a different answer. Do you like it? Do you love to do it? As opposed to standup comedy, which is you have to get better to get work with podcasting, you don't have to get better at it to continue to be able to put it out. That's one of the great things about podcasts is that there is no, nobody's paying, almost no one is making any money on this, right? So you could continue to do it forever and be bad at it. So the question you should ask yourself when you're doing a podcast is, do you love to do it? Or why are you doing it? Why are you doing this? Right. If your podcast is just you alone, like Bill Burr, talks to himself for an hour, he thoroughly enjoys that, right? Do you still like to do that four years later? Then keep doing it. If you interview people and you still like to interview people, do it. Why? I mean, I'm 11, this is the 11th year of the Dork Forest and I've gotten better at interviewing for sure. I've gotten better at it, but I will say that there's a small amount of money in it and there's a great deal, but there's a great deal of self-satisfaction. I get a lot of satisfaction. I learn a lot, I laugh because of the things that people love. I still love the premise of the show, which is to ask people about what they love. This week's episode is with a comic, and a lot of them are comics, my guess, just because I know a lot of comics, but sometimes they aren't, right? This week's episode is about a guy who loves to go out and try different chicken recipes. That's a learnings. Let us discuss. Last week, it was a woman who teaches swing dance and square dancing and English country dancing, as she gets paid for it, but it's not a lot. That's not her day job. She does it for the love of it, so that's her dorkdom. Then, Kostaki Akonomopoulos is coming on in a couple of weeks and he talked about Texas Hold'em, the poker game, and then I just had a guy on who told me about Jimi Hendrix and the music ones are hilarious because I genuinely don't know who anyone is. It is curious that people have this one thing. They have their sexual fetish and then they have their thing when there's free time to explore and it gets even deeper now with the internet. Because everyone can have a niche. It's why the white supremacists found each other. It's very disappointing. So I owe you an apology. I owe you an apology. Yeah, yeah. I alienated my listeners, I would say eight years ago, early on. Wow. With an interview I did, with you, outside the Irvine Improv. Yeah, I was rude to you and I apologized and I paid a price for it. I got really, it was the first batch of angry email that I got from my, what are you doing there? What is that? Me? Yeah, it sounds like you're filing your net. What are you doing? I was actually scratching my neck. Oh, do it again, do it again. Is that it? Is that the noise? Scratch. I did. My right foot is going up and down when you do that. Okay, so you interviewed me and you were a jackass about it? I wasn't a jackass. As I recall, Obama had just been inaugurated. We were doing a political fundraiser. Obama said we had to put away our childish things. I agreed. We had just survived. Well, we didn't survive. We were just getting through eight years of bush where I said everybody anesthetized themselves and didn't pay attention to what was really important and I said what's really important is what's going on in Washington DC. I asked you about your hobbies and I kind of lectured you and said you need to focus on more important things. What you're focusing on is trivial. That does seem a little jackassery, seriously judgmental. And judgmental and I paid a huge price for it. So many people called me out for it. I want to apologize, tell you where I'm at and then I want to bring up what you told me before we started because you kind of you've circled back to politics and I want to ask you about that. You're doing politics in your new album. I'm not the hero of this story for the first time you're talking about politics on stage. I don't want to take back my apology, but I want to circle back to why you're talking about politics. But first, I am obsessed with the royal family in Great Britain and the United Kingdom. What helps me fall asleep is reading or watching documentaries about Queen Elizabeth Prince Philip and Charles. I'm not interested in Diana. I'm also interested in history filtered through the Duke of Windsor, the abdication, the war, Queen Elizabeth. And one of the things Queen Elizabeth said was we are relevant. Even though we have nothing to do with government, there's more to a nation than what's happening in parliament. And I thought, wow, that's very interesting. I'm so obsessed with politics. There are other things that people value besides government and politics. And I thought of you and I thought of my interview with you. And that's one of the reasons we reached out to talk to you. Okay, because there are there's more to life than what's going on in Washington DC. You become a boring person, if all you filter everything through is Democrats versus Republicans. So I apologize. Apology accepted. Okay. Yes. And again, moving forward, moving forward. Why have you gotten interested in politics all of a sudden? Why are you on stage now talking about politics for the first time? Well, what happened to me was my last album. This will make an excellent horcrux. My act has always been pretty sociopolitical, as I've always thought of it as that anyway, where I talk about family and relationships and society and stuff. And it usually has a B plot is what I like to call sort of a sociopolitical angle, where previous to this album, my father once said to me, do people know you're a big pink Okami? Do you ever get any guff about that in the clubs people ever? And I said, dad, have you ever looked at me? Really? Because people look at me and they think to themselves, what's she going to do? Vote? I'm terrified. Anyway, so the this last album, which I had horcrux, I recorded a little over three years ago. This album I recorded in December, six weeks after the election. And I was genuinely in shock. And I had my album, I had 45 minutes of material that was going to be my album. And then I wrote, I could only write political jokes. And I've never written anything so specifically political as the first 12 minutes of my current album. And I've never done jokes that are that new on an album. Those those jokes, some of them are literally a month old. And I decided to record them. And just because I genuinely thought that the world was going to end. And I'm super erotistical. And thought, well, if I'm killed, I want these jokes to be on an album. My self absorption is almost complete, David Feldman. So that's why I did the jokes. And I have written since November 9 of 2016, I think two dick jokes and one new joke. And it's an exciting time for me to final that are not political. You know, I have. And it's kind of great because, you know, the thing about political jokes and topical jokes is that there's a lot of parallel thinking. There's a lot of people who write the same jokes because we're all human. And so now I have on tape things that I jokes I told December 27 of 2016. So you could do your World War Three joke forever. But I wrote it back in July of 2016. Political jokes that you wrote on November 9. Do they hold up now? A couple of them do, actually. It's essentially because they're still not political. They're still not topical. I write like I have a essentially there is a joke about the Armenian genocide. There's nothing funnier than the Armenian genocide. I and it is about the Muslim Registration Act and my fear of registering people by religion and skin color and sticking them on trains and driving them into deserts. And the reason that I care about that is because my grandmother was lived through the Armenian genocide. And then I tell the three stories that she told me when she as it when I was a child, she told me that when the Turk because the Armenian genocide the Turks mass curd a million and a half Armenians, they claim that it never happened. They've thought their children and their grandchildren never happened. And what I always say about genocides, don't take pictures because we can see exactly what you're doing there. So this was way before World War One. Well, it was a 1915 and it started in the late 1800s. So and I believe it was Hitler said about the final solution for the Jews was who remembers the Armenians. Right. And he was of course, correct. We got bad poem. But we're working on it. We got Batman in a movie called The Promise. Did you see that romantic action movie set during the Armenian genocide with the guy who played Batman? When was this? I don't watch those Christian bail. It just came out about a month ago. It came out April 20, 24 is Armenian martyrs day. So it came out the week of April 24 of 2017. Does the American government recognize the Armenian genocide? They do not. Donald Trump did use the word genocide accidentally because he is Donald Trump. And then he took it back. And then the Turks were allowed to beat up Kurdish protesters in Washington, D.C. Is there a gallows humor about the Armenian genocide? I know that when Jews get very much when Jews get together, we make fun of the Armenian genocide. You call that a genocide? When Jews get together, there's a gallows humor about the Holocaust, which I do on this show and I'm trying not to. Because nobody wants to hear it? It's not so funny anymore. I can't help myself. Right. Because that's how it's a knee-jerk reaction. Well, I mean, here's the thing. When the Turks came to take my grandmother out of when they came to empty their village, the general in charge of my grandmother's village allowed them to bring their donkey. My grandmother, by the way, 60 years later, was like, there was still bread in the oven. 60 years later, still worried about the bread. I think it burned. I think it burned. But the general said that my grandmother's family could keep their donkey. And my grandmother's grandmother was supposed to ride that donkey into the desert to die. The village priest stole the donkey. The Armenian priest, in charge of their village, was going to ride that donkey into the desert to die. And my grandmother was 16 and took a two-by-four and beat the priest off of the donkey. And she told me that story when I was 19. And I told her I didn't want to go to church anymore. And she said, I go to church and I did this to a priest. So you're going to church. Why did she do that? She wanted to die? She wanted her grandmother to ride the donkey. My grandmother's grandmother was supposed to ride that donkey. That's why the general said that they could take it. The priest didn't have his own damn donkey. So he was like, I'm going to ride the donkey. And my grandmother took a two-by-four and beat the shit out of it. Why did the Turks massacre the Armenians? There's a lot of speculation that because the Armenians were very successful financially in the Ottoman Empire, and they owned a lot of land, they did a lot of banking, they were the Jews, essentially, of the Ottoman Empire. The reason less, more confusing, why did the Turks kill the Kurds and the Assyrians? They claimed it was Christianity because the Armenians are Christians and the Assyrians are Christians. I don't know if the Kurds are Christians. I think the Kurds are Muslim, I think. Muslim? Yeah, I think so. I don't know, but why do the Turks hate them? And Armenia is a country now. Now it is. And Andrea Martin does a benefit every year for the children of Armenia. And I know that Conan went to Armenia. Yep. It is somewhat impoverished. It's fine. The thing about Soviet Armenia, it was Soviet Armenia and then it became its own country after the Soviet Union broke up. And Armenia has spent, I did a benefit one time where I did not realize that it was a benefit for a very right-wing part of the Armenian community, which is essentially, you know those plant a tree in Armenia. I don't know if you've, you guys, it's mostly plant a tree in Azerbaijan because the Armenians and the Azerbaijanis have a dispute over borders. But there are a lot of Armenians living in Azerbaijan. Sure, there's probably a lot of Azerbaijanis living in Armenia. But if you put them next to each other and a Turk, you tell me which one's which. I mean, I think it's, I'm a big fan of, I mean, we have enough problems right here on this, in this country. I don't take part in the politics of other people's sovereignty, right? It's like when people start getting, they're super pro-Israeli or they're super pro-Palestinian. And I'm like, well, that's interesting. What does it have to do with where you're from in Illinois? You know, I understand that they dragged a gay kid behind a truck last week. You're going to fix that? Why'd you fix that? It's just, there's a great thing that a wise man, Don Rickles, once said. Okay, you say I'm Israeli. Okay, this is a Don Rickles line. How are you, my Arab friend? I'm Israeli. Like that's better? That'll always be funny. Sadly, always be funny. It'll always be funny. And he did it no matter what. He would get, how are you doing my Japanese friend? And the guy would say, I'm Chinese. I'm Chinese. Like that's better. And it's basically what Mort Saul said, you're in America, unpack. Oh God, that's a great line. Yeah. But yeah, but we carry this stuff with us for many reasons. Why do you think we carry it with us? I think we're tribal and I think that we're herd animals. And I think that we lead and can be led. And I genuinely think that we're racist. There's because of that, because of those groupings that we've created for about 10,000 years is that we're and I'm racist, but only because of Blacks, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans. Interesting. Interesting. I hate the theories. I have, you know, when the election happened and I was very frightened, right? I was sort of paralyzed with fear. And I got all my hope from my Black and my brown friends. I have a litany of friends that are in front of me in line when the killings start. But my Black and my brown friends and thank God they had to be there for me, right? To ease this middle-aged white lady's heart. But to a person, when I said, Hey, I'm scared about what's going to happen to a person, all my friends were like, Yeah, yeah, we got screwed again. That's all. Don't worry about it. You just got to keep going. You got to just get up every day and get in the way of bad behavior, but also try to make sure that you're happy because they don't want you to be happy. So make sure you're happy. Do the thing you want to do. And I was like, just keep going. Just get up. And I swear to God, one of my friends said, Jesus, is this the first time you've been disappointed? And I was like, no. And I got defensive. And I was like, Jesse Ventura, Ronald Reagan. And then I realized this is the first time with Nazis and Klansmen, you know? And so, yes. And, you know, just a month or so ago, I had sort of an unlocking of a new level of racism that revealed to me that I do not view people as people sometimes. I see them as like, I think it was something about ambition and a young black man. I am not the hero of this damn story, but I literally, the guy was talking about how he never took holidays off. And I was like, why wouldn't you take holidays off? And it didn't occur to me that he has to work twice as hard. I mean, one of the reasons why full-on racists, like white supremacists, hate people of color so bad is that there are successful people of color. Right. Or immigrants or Mexicans. Right. That had to work three times as hard as that white guy who was born on second and are more successful than him. And that's what creates that sort of white supremacist attitude of, well, that shouldn't happen. And you're like, you actually got that backwards. So, because it shouldn't happen that we should try to figure out how to level the playing field almost impossible, but I understand that it's an admirable idea, you know? I mean, it's like the idea of a democratic republic. It's a group illusion that we have, this democracy, this representative republic. And I think that we fail at it on a regular basis, but the group illusion is worthwhile because it brings us forward, civilization wants. Can you understand white supremacists? If everybody's tribal, if everybody's racist, if everybody is a victim, can you understand how white people also want in on that? That they want to be victims? Yeah. Sure. Sure. I get, I get where it comes from because and I've, because here's the thing, if you are a straight white guy, your life is, it's not, it's, you're not sitting in a gravy boat. No one's handing you 20s underneath the table every time you wake up. It's, your life is still hard and that is still a valid journey. What you have to have is some sort of empathy and compassion and perspective to be able to see what disadvantages you do not have, right? I mean, that's all it is, is Check your privilege. Check your privilege. That's what they say, and but it's essentially, you walk into a grocery store, nobody assumes that you're going to steal something. Which is why I always steal stuff. See, you get away with it. You're just, you're over there passing for white. And so the, but then yeah, and so I get why, like until it is revealed to you that you are sexist or you are racist or you have privilege, you don't see it because you're sitting in a fishbowl of your own water. And that water isn't super clean. It isn't, there are, it isn't boundaryless. It isn't the greatest thing in the world. But it is better than if you're sitting in a fishbowl in Flint, Michigan. Right? Well, as a, I guess I'm not really white. That's why I think, right, I'm Jewish. That's why I said passing for white. Yeah. Well, I'm kind of, I can, if I, anyway, with women, for example, bitches, man. That's what you want to say, bitches. No, no, the, it starts with a lighter that comes after big. Oh, crazy women, crazy women. I said, bitches, the I is more of an S then. And okay. When I was starting out, this is what I'm guilty of, especially since one of my daughters is doing stand-up. Oh yeah? Yeah. Neat. I was hoping she'd become a stripper. I thought I was a much better abuse of father. But when I was starting out, this was conventional wisdom about female comics. And this is what I'm confessing to, not that I packed it up. Oh, right. Huh? Okay. What do you think? What do you think? I'm girding my loins. Yes? Go on. What do I think? What do you think in the 80s white male comics said about female comics? But they're not funny. What else did they say? I didn't say that. I didn't say that. When I started doing stand-up comedy in 1984, I was told that there were a couple of rules about being a woman comic. I was the only woman by the way. What year? What year? 84. Okay. And I was told by male comics who had been doing stand-up, by the way, months longer than me. What the rules were to be a woman comic. Okay. I could not discuss bodily functions. Nobody wanted to hear women swear. Nobody wanted all women talk about their periods. By the way, one woman told a joke about her period and for 30 years. Granted, I don't want to talk about my period or bodily functions, but guys have been talking about what hand they jerk off with since cave days. That's not a bodily function. The stuff that comes out of their butt. Yes. It's all poop jokes and all-come jokes with gentlemen of a certain kind of comedy. They had a lot of advice for me. What was the advice you were given women comics in the 80s? Well, I was told because as you know, I was a woman back then. Right. It does help. Two things. One is about the bodily functions. I want to ask you about that because I'm guilty of telling one of my daughters that not in stand-up, but I told her that joking about bodily functions is unseemly. Yes, and it is. It's often funny. I don't make it particularly funny, but other people have. Whereas one of my sons, this is what would happen. The children would often come up to wherever I was working and one of my sons would clench both fists, raise them in a victory stance, and he'd go, listen to this and then he would pass gas and everybody laughed. And then he would bow and we would all laugh and then I would do the obligatory, okay, knock it off, but you know, after we were all laughing. Right. But if my daughter wasn't allowed to do that, so that's bad. It's taken me years to recognize that. To recognize. Looking back, I wish I had told my son not to do it. Right, right. So it was a double standard. Enormously so and people don't. Now is that a misdemeanor? Is that a felony? Is that a misdemeanor? Is it, I mean, I can sleep at night knowing and I still in my heart think I was right for telling my daughter that. It's neither a misdemeanor than a felony. It's more of ground cover. It is, it is the standardization. There is no way to undo that except for at its most basic. In the last 15 years or so, women comics have talked about bodily functions more than ever in my life of doing stand-up, right? And some of them are hilarious about it. And some of them aren't. Many of them aren't because that's the way it is with stand-up comedy. 90% of it sucks and 10% of it is good and 1% of that 10% is amazing. So, but there's no... Well, let me ask you about that, about this. Would you say sweeping generalization here? Most male comics do stand-up because they want to get laid. I've never, I've never thought that. But other people have told me that. Do you think that's true? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I know personally that had I not done stand-up comedy, no woman would be interested in me. I never would have gotten married. What about this question? Do you think that most men insert any job, do it to get laid? Yes. So maybe to be a man means to try to get laid as a sweeping generalization? Yes. And I think women do things, like when a woman shows up to work, this is why I think men had so much trouble trying to understand Clarence Thomas versus Anita Hill. I'm really having fun here because I think we're making a sweeping broad generalization. That's true. I think most men show up to work and they want to get laid because they think about sex all the time. A woman shows up to work to do her job, to make rent, to pay her bills, to make 70 cents on the dollar. And the guy is off there going, but what about getting laid? Now, I can get laid anytime I want. I'm a woman. Shut up. I will say this is that what I am, we're of an age. So I hear what you say and no, there's part of me that genuinely believes that. But what I have seen empirical evidence, well, more anecdotal of the last 15 years is that women might do stand-up comedy to get laid. We also wish to get laid a lot. Right. Right. And I'm putting up resistance to that. Right. I think we might be wrong because this might be a generational thing. Who's wrong? I think we are wrong. That women want to get... Your statement that says that men do things to get laid, women go to work to get laid, women go to work to make money, I think everybody does everything to get laid. Okay. When did you... Just now. Okay. So this is important to me. Okay. You did agree with me when I said men do everything to get laid, women do things to make money or for reasons that are inexplicable. But they're not thinking about sex all the time. You kind of agreed with me on that, right? That's how I was raised. And so I was like, there's a big part of me that has agreed with you. Yes. And after a killer set, you don't delude yourself into saying, all right, line them up. I could probably have my pick of any of these dudes in My Not North Dakota. No, well, I never did. It's true. But I do know women who get laid after shows like road guys did in the 90s that I worked with. Okay. And now there's a theory about that that was invented by men, not women. Yes. Although I did speak to a professor who wrote a book called Hooking Up, and she was on the fence about what men think about that. There are many men who believe that women who are out there getting laid every night are doing it for reasons that are not conventionally pleasurable. In other words, they're doing it for reasons other than what we call sex. What were those reasons? That it may not be about pleasure. It might be more about psychological battles that they want to overcome and win. Interesting. Because when I would get laid on the road, and I didn't do it a lot, I mostly got drunk on the road. That was my go-to of the dumb choices that I made, and I do think that they were dumb for me anyway. But when I would get laid on the road, I would do it entirely just to get laid for sexual reasons. I literally, romantically, used to refer to it as getting a tune-up. Very romantic. I felt like a classy lady, and when you do get laid as a woman on the road, or anywhere, with strangers, and that's what I was doing, it's very hard to have an orgasm because you're poised for flight because you think that you're about to be killed at any moment. It's hard to think. There's always a moment when you're having sex with a stranger as a woman, in my experience, where you are thinking to yourself, is this where he kills me? It is awkward, and making it very hard to have an orgasm. And they call the orgasm the little death. Yes. That's why men, let me mansplain to you. If you could, if you could just let me in on it. And by the way, mansplaining is when the guy, I think that joke has already been done. So the orgasm, this is what men claim, and that's why I said that they're getting laid for reasons other than pleasure. But then, you know, there's, you can have sex without an orgasm. It's intimate. It's emotional. It's fun. And I wouldn't, for the life of me, I think women are more complicated to me than they've ever been. And I think they may even be more complicated to themselves than they've ever been. I think that this next generation of women that I meet, these women that I meet, are so open to trying to figure out what the heck their purpose and point is in life, because they see the advantages, and this is serious, is they see the advantages of being a man. The advantages of being a man is that you could have a lovely career, and then in your 40s, start having kids. And if you're a woman, and you have four eggs left, and they're marinating in extra chromosomes, it is hard to do that. And is that true? That it's harder to have kids when you're 40? There are more chromosomes if you wait? I think so. There's trouble. I have about four eggs left, and there's, I wouldn't recommend any of them become babies, just because there's going to be an extra elbow there. All right, let me address that, if I may. There are some men, like me, who say, we don't want women to be like men. We want women to carve out a brand new frontier, and make men more like women. That sounds like women are doing the heavy lifting there. Why are the women having to reinvent themselves and fix you? What's happening? The blowback, the pushback from Sheryl Sandberg and Lean In is kind of an acceptance of male behavior. That's what she was basically saying. Oh, right. She's like, yeah, if you want to win the male game, you have to be a man, which is traditional old-school feminism. The feminism I grew up with was, you have to play men's games with men's rules, then they'll accept you, and you'll make it further. But they're never going to, but they're never going to, it's like Bill Cosby and O.J., well, bad example. It doesn't work, is what you're saying, and I believe you are correct, if I'm right, right? Uh-huh. I've straddled both generations. Women approach comedy differently than men do. I think that's true. And so why change that? Well, I don't think having women in the writings changes the women's writing. I think it changes the men's writing. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't change the men's writing. It changes, it's like, I don't know if I'm actually giving an opinion on your question, but it's, some people, there are shows that look a plethora of white dude comics in stand-up comedy, and they're like, well, these are the guys, these are the squeaky wheels. These are the guys that I know, or I'm a white guy, and I happen to know a lot of white guy comics. They all have funny, isn't that something? And you're like, that is something, that's great. But half of your audience, or even if it's only a third of your audience, is black or a woman, or some other race besides white guys. So it's just offering, it's a way to, as a capitalistic moment, it's a way to expand your business, is to offer more women in the, as comics, or you get yourself, go out on a limb, find a Filipino lady who's gay with a limp, and it's going to psych out like three people in the world, and they're going to be psyched. But they'll come back to your club, and you'll build more, you'll make more money if you diversify. That is an actual economic fact, is that if you consult more people, you will make more money. And if you have a writer's room where, let's say the show is the Americans, by the way, a show I've never seen, it's supposed to be amazing. And you have a lot of white men that are in there writing it, and then you have some women, and you have some, you know, a black guy comes in, and a Mexican woman comes in, whatever. You get all these different perspectives, the stories, because in those writer's rooms, to my knowledge, you're actually mining your own life for stories. And if it's an hour-long drama or a sitcom, and you have more perspectives, that show could last longer, that show could have more layers to it, more depth, and appeal to more people. And that's why I'd want to mix up a writer's room. I don't want any part of a writer's room. Here's my question to you, David Feldman. You've been in a lot of writer's rooms. I've never wanted to be in a writer's room because I always picture this, eight to 14-hour days sitting in a room without windows, sweating, telling fisting jokes until someone says something funny. Yeah, but that's because I'm there. I call them whiting rooms, whiter's rooms. The Americans, I watched a little of it, it was excellent, but there's a plot where the wife is sleeping with a black guy, and the message from the show is that black people were more susceptible to the KGB, especially black militants during the 60s and the 70s. Well, there's an interesting plot point. And so she's sleeping with a black militant who's a KGB agent. That was kind of like a blood libel against Martin Luther King and Jesse Jackson that they were serving their Russian overlords, kind of racist, and was never really born out to be true. Right. And I was at the Writers Guild Awards and the Americans won, and I was curious to see who would go up there and accept, I don't think I saw any African Americans writing for that show. So there is some, again, I've only seen a couple of episodes of The Americans. I didn't like that storyline where the African American was more susceptible to the KGB because of the oppression of blacks in America, found that offensive. Right. And I didn't see any black writers. Which might have, right, which might have been something that they could have gotten some perspective on. Yeah, then you have, then you have like Wyatt Cnack speaking up at The Daily Show about John Stewart doing that Amos and Andy voice. And it got ugly and Wyatt left. Yeah, but the thing, I mean, good for Wyatt. I mean, the problem is, is that it has to, my racism is more of that nature, the John Stewart nature, where I have done something that is hurtful and thoughtless because I think that I'm an ally. I think that I'm something, right? I think I'm above it all. Or you get me, I'm me. And you're like, no, no, you, I mean, part of the job, like, like I was talking about how you have to, like there are people in front of me in line, there is, I can only complain about our current situation laterally. Like I can complain to other white women. I can complain to white guys who are behind me in line. But everyone in front of me in line gets to complain to me. And I get to shut up and be supportive and figure out how I can be of some use. Because if you are a Latino handicapped woman who is bisexual, your fear is is more imminent than my fear. And this isn't, I suppose, we're, this is an entertainment program, so I could tell you a joke. What I say that the purpose of straight white guys is to do what traditionally straight white guys have done, decent straight white men have done for thousands of years, which is to get in the way of bad behavior and to clean out their addicts so they can hide people. And that is the joke, right? But that's the joke, but it's also get on it. You know, I am, I don't want to be a white lady meat shield, but I will be a white lady meat shield. But I also don't think that there is a 25-year-old black man who wants me to stand in front of him. He just doesn't want it to have to be a thing. You know, but you're saying that white men have a responsibility to speak up when they see something bad happening? Very much so. As do white women, as do I. I had a bad situation about two months ago. Where I was at the grocery store and there was a, I pushed an 80-year-old man. I am not proud of it. I am, it's not a good thing, I don't recommend doing it. I didn't push him down, but here's what happened. I'm walking out of Ralph's grocery store 10 o'clock at a Friday night. In front of me is an 80-year-old white guy, not homeless, not crazy looking, wearing like khakis, a belt, a polo shirt, carrying a loaf of French bread. He's in front of me walking out the door and he starts yelling like above, like shouting at the rent-a-cop guy. The rent-a-cop is a black man. He starts calling him the n-word, telling him he's from Haiti, telling him that he screwed monkeys and that's why there are aides. And, uh... No, they say that's, I don't mind racism. I hate stupid racism. The Haitians did not screw the monkeys. That happened in Africa. Exactly. And I'll tell you what the rent-a-cop did, by the way. The black rent-a-cop laughed at him, because it was probably the third time it had happened that day. Middle-aged white lady had some outrage. I'm playing the part of the middle-aged white lady. 10 years ago, I would have probably just gone up to the rent-a-cop and gone, hey, that guy's a dick. What's going on? How you doing? Which I'm told later by sane people that that's still the correct activity. But instead, I went up to the old white guy and started yelling at him. And telling him it wasn't okay. And telling him it wasn't cool. And he had to stop it. And I was swearing, and I was upset. And I wanted to be Captain America and get in his face. And he, and I said, you got anything to say to me? And he did not, because I, even to an 80-year-old white guy, I remind him of his mother, you know? And so he did not. And at one point he said to me, this has nothing to do with you. This is none of your business. And I said, it has everything to do with me, because this is America. And I'm American. And he said, America. And I turned into a country music song and pushed him. And I pushed him. And I didn't push him down, but I pushed him. And he bumped into a cart and he was an old frail dude. But he kept walking and we just kind of yelled at each other to our cars. But I thought he was something. That, I don't know that that helped. I don't know what that did. But what a real hero doesn't do, probably, is sit in her car afterwards and cry. And, you know, and it just. Did it feel good pushing the guy? No. It did not. It did not feel good. It felt like I lost control. Okay, but so I, again, sweeping generalization, I'm going to say that a man who pushed the old man is going to have conflicted emotions about that. One part of him is going to feel good that he pushed a man. Okay. The other part is going to feel bad that I shouldn't have pushed an 80 year old man. But I did. But I did push a man and he backed off and didn't push back. So I won that. Ah, that doesn't go on. I didn't have any of that. Yeah, I did not have any of that. I did not. Would you have shame, would you have shame if a woman pushed you and you just walked away? Um, probably, but I'm a little aggro. Um, aggro? I'm aggressive. I am a, uh, I'll tell you, here's another great story of. Well, before you get there, before you get to that story, can you relive moments that happened 30, 40 years ago and feel like, man, if I had bulked up, if I should, I should have punched him? Yeah. You really? Yeah. There are times when I should have stood up when I did not. Yes. I'm talking about physically. Yes. And does it haunt you? Yes. I was, I've been sexually abused twice in public. Oh, okay. And I did not do anything about it. I just let it happen. You, you what? I didn't do anything about it. I just let it happen. You were sexually abused in public? In public, yes. And it was once on a bus when I was about 17, 16 or 17. And once on Venice Beach when I was getting massage from an old Chinese dude. And that guy, I tipped him. I'm still going to be, I'm still going to be mad about that. So sexual, so improper touching. Yeah. The Chinese guy had his fingers up my vagina. Well, he was supposed to be massaging me. Then I just moved my leg to get him out. And then he went away. Then he came back and I was like, okay, I'm done with the massage. And then I just paid him and tipped him and left. And why do I want to make, I used to do a joke about it. And why is it, I have like 10 jokes I want to make. Because it is horrifyingly funny. That's why. Because it's, I mean, because we're comics. What are you going to do, David Feldman? It's, I used to do a joke about how I was going to, that what I should have said was, that's where I keep my vagina. You're going to have to get away from me. And then somebody said, you should sell a t-shirt that says, that's where I keep my vagina. And I said, I would rather not. That or the t-shirt that says, that's where I keep my vagina with an arrow going to the left. Like I'm with stupid. And so none of that. So, do you mind if I pursue this for one second? Sure. How much did you tip him? No. Just a tip, an inch. I forgot, I had a question about that. All right, my mom, I got upset. I was going to, I had a serious question about that, but then I'm getting upset. Okay. Do you think about it a lot? Do you feel like you should have reported him with that? No. No, I don't think about it. I don't think about, until recently, I genuinely just thought, oh well, that happens to everybody. What are you going to do? And you got away. So you win. And there's a whole new generation of women who are like in the moment, much more present and are able to say, hey, jerk off, that isn't okay. Get some help, you know. But it is an assault. Yeah, yeah, well, very much so, right? It's against the law. Yeah, it's an assault. It's not okay. And yet there's this little part of me, I'm going to be honest with you, okay? Mm-hmm. I'm trying to think. If I was, this is how I think some men might think. There's no question that it's an assault. It's a physical assault. Had you pressed, there's no question that had you pressed charges. I don't think he would have ever gone to jail. No. No, remember the comic who attacked the waitress in Minneapolis a couple of years ago? No. The judge said, well, you were both drunk, but he had pulled his penis out and shoved it in her face and said, come on, just suck it until she screamed and the neighbors called 911. Was it on videotape? It was not. Yeah. But he admitted, he admitted to doing it. In the police report, he said that and he also said, yeah, I get a little aggressive when I get horny. And I just, I told her, I said, well, you should be, you should be happy. I like you. You're just a waitress. I have a comic. And where did this happen? Where did this happen? The hackiest rape line ever. House of comedy in Minneapolis. I was traveling through and Minneapolis is my home club. It's my hometown, comedy wise. So I heard all the stories. And then a year later. Where did he do it? I think it was at her apartment. There'd been a party and then everybody left it. He wouldn't leave. It's a classic date. Yeah, it's a classic date, rapey kind of scene. But I mean, the thing is, is there's so many ways that you're like, well, you lived and you didn't have, you didn't end up having to have sex. So don't sweat it. You know, stuff happens. And I was raised with that attitude. And that attitude is, of course, incorrect because it is, as you said, a salt. It's a salt. Right. If someone did that to my 17 year old niece, I would want to kill them. That's not okay, gentlemen. I was just talking to my brother today, actually, and he was talking about how, one time when he was talking about consent with his sons, his sons were 14 and 17. And my father was like 76 at the time. And my dad is a ladies man. And what does that mean? He's my father. He dresses like a woman? No, it's a numbers game. It's all a cold call to him. He's working the numbers. But my father is, what I like about my dad is that because he's a salesman, I had to stop doing about 12 minutes of material because two people, too, too many came up to me and said, your dad kind of sounds like Trump. And I said, no, no, my father is not a creep. And I know that because none of my brothers are creeps. So, but my brother is talking to his, and every one of my family is in sales. It's my father's an aluminum siding salesman. My oldest brother is an evangelist and sells the meanest Jesus. My next oldest brother is a print salesman. My third oldest brother is a commodities broker. My fourth oldest brother is an econ professor. And my sister is a financial advisor. And you went to Madison, right? That's what I said to you. Now I remember. Oh, because I have a degree in political science. Right. And I was rude to you eight years ago. I said, why are you wasting a political science degree from Madison, Wisconsin? One of the great universities in the world talking to people about LARPing. LARPing, yes. So boy, people get mad at me for saying that. That's because LARPers are some serious people. They make their own costumes. So is your dad, is he still married? He's been married three times. He got married the third time to spite my stepmother, which made me laugh and laugh and laugh. And then they were divorced very quickly after. But my father's 80, and this is how he hits on women. This is a cold call with my dad. He goes to the grocery store. He goes to the frozen food aisle, gets a frozen dinner, walks up to a woman, in her late 20s, early 30s, because that's his cut off. And he says, is this enough food for a single man? That's the pickup line. And I have always made fun of him. And he's like, what, I got something else to do? Sometimes it works. Does it work? Does it work? It has worked for him, yes. With 20-somethings? My father's very charming, yes. And, but, so my brother and his sons, who are 14 and 17, are sitting around. And everything is a sales analogy. Every lesson in my life has a sales analogy. Like picking up, you know, picking up women. That was my father's. It's a cold call. It's a pitch. And so my brother is talking to my nephew. He's about consent. And my brother said, you know, no is non-negotiable. There's no reason to force the sale. You can't, you know, you might be able to convince them, yes. But there's no reason to do it. Just let it be no. And then if it's yes, she'll tell you. Tomorrow, next week, she'll let you know. Don't worry about it. And then he said, the weird thing about sex is that there will be more sex in your life than you can imagine right now. It'll be fine. And then my dad pipes up because he has to. And he says, you know, women are like street cars. There'll be another one by in 20 minutes. That's a line from some girls. Oh my God. Classic stealing of lines with him. Because I was like, what is that? Orville Redenbacher? There's not like street cars. That's a line from a song. Which song? Some girl. No, no. It's from the album Some Girls. What's that about? I have to go check and see where my iguana is. So tell me that story. It's from the Some Girls album. I find women are like street cars because halfway through I want to transfer. Oh my God. All right. I can't find my lizard. Well, there he is. He's just sitting underneath the iguana. He's my iguana. He's sitting underneath the. I find women are like street cars. Because I have to pay first to get off. To arrive. I just writing bad jokes. That's all I I wish I could. If I could just impersonate Bill Cosby. That's all I would do. I would talk like Bill. I have a question about Bill Cosby for you. Yes. Bill Cosby at this time is currently, to my knowledge, not doing stand-up comedy. Because he cannot get booked. Because 52 women have said that he raped them while they were unconscious. And I think that he's still writing. Because he's a comic. And a sociopath. Oh, he's a complete sociopath. But he can't get up. And I want to know what he's, what jokes. I think he's writing. My wife isn't talking to me right now. Guys, I'm sleeping on the couch. That is, I literally once a month I think about how, and I would, you know. How many albums have you put out? Four and a half. This is my, I did one myself in the 90s where I burned it myself and sold them when I was on the road. And if anybody ever finds those, they should definitely rip it quickly before it disintegrates in front of their eyes. This is the fourth one I've put out that's a professional quality real album. How long does it take you to write an album? I like to do an album every two and a half to three years. Because I want the jokes to be done. Are you constantly thinking about your next album? No. I, at around two years into doing material, I'll start thinking about doing an album. Because I'll usually at two years be happy with about a new half hour of material. And how many, when you record an album, how many times do you record it? I usually try to record it five times. And then I try to do a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, five, five audios. And then I listen to all five hours. I pick the main set, right? The set that I like the best. And then if there's jokes where I said things better on other sets, if it's possible, I'll get the audio engineer to sub it out. It's essentially, some people just like to do one and done, right? Maria does that. She records it once, knock yourself out, listen to that album. I like the idea that it's sort of like a Photoshop situation where I don't want you to Photoshop away my flaws or the aging process, but I do want it to look like I look on the best possible day. So the audio should sound like you've seen me sort of hit all the right beats. Where is your favorite city to record an album? I only record in Minneapolis. I was going to say Minneapolis. I was going to the Acme Common Club. Yeah, that's my home club, Acme. Yeah. Lewis, Lewis. Lewis Lee, the guy that supports my career more than anyone. And that includes me. He is more supportive than I am. Yeah, I would say Lewis. Yeah, he's a great guy. He's one of the good ones. He's Jeff. He's the only guy who ever raised my rate without me asking. Yeah. He's the kind of guy who I was like, you know, I'm working too much. And he said, raise your prices. Don't worry about it. He'll work less. You'll make just the same amount of money. Wow, you recorded all your albums in Minneapolis. Greatest audiences. You know, Leno said that 30 years ago about Minneapolis. They're a great audience because the winter does that to people. Great. It's stand-up comedy club audiences because you know how we're in this political situation that we are in. I have been doing political jokes. And the audiences are fine. Like, last week I was in Birmingham, Alabama and there was a mullet in the front row, just a goof of a dude who was kind of glaring at me. And he is... But he enjoyed the rest of the show. He did not like my political stuff and glared at me. And I don't know why he was so well lit. But on the whole, comedy audiences come to a comedy club, they don't know what they're seeing. And because they don't YouTube, Google what comic they've come to see, right? Which is foolishness. But it makes them much more agreeable. You know, they show up and they don't know if they're seeing Jen Kirkman or Nick DiPollo. And they just... All I know is that I had some drunk kid come up to me a couple of years ago and after the show and he said, man, I got to tell you this thing. And I said, okay, before you tell me this thing, think to yourself, is this going to be offensive? And he said, he genuinely paused. And he goes, maybe, but I got to tell you. And I said, all right, don't part, man. He said, when we showed up and I saw it was a woman comic, I'm like, man, let's not stay. And because usually I don't like women comics, but you were really funny. And I said, usually I don't like drunk and jackasses, but you're amazing. And he was... But the thing is, is so... Like if they see Jen Kirkman or they see Nick DiPollo, those are two enormously different stand-up comedy shows. But if you're super liberal and you see Nick DiPollo, you will laugh. Because Nick DiPollo has funny jokes. If you're super... Jenine Karol loves Nick DiPollo. Right. If you are super conservative and you see Jen Kirkman, you will laugh because there are good jokes there. And that's all... I mean, that's why I like comedy club audiences is because they're so dumb they don't YouTube Google somebody, but when they get there, they accept the consequences. May I ask you about that for a second? By the way, does anybody do a joke where you say to a redneck with a mullet, you know, mullet is one dropped constant away from mullet? No, because I don't know what a mullet is. Is it a mullet like an Iranian mullet? Oh, like an imam or something? Yeah. Yeah, mullet. Oh, that's super obscure. Have you thought about writing for Dennis Miller in the 80s? Anyway... He had a mullet. Yes. So and you're playing generic comedy clubs, in other words, where they're coming just to... Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I was talking about a comedy club that happens to be underneath a pet hospital in a strip mall. Yes. I was just in Whittepig. There are people coming to see you. Yes, more now than ever before. Things are going well. And it's because of the podcast, right? Yeah, it's because of the podcast. And it's because I get to open for famous people now. And I get four new fans every time I open for Bamford or Brian Regan. And people are like, oh, I remember that woman. And then they come and see me do a long set. This has been great. We have to do this. I can keep going. We have to. Yeah, I got a pack. I go over Bloomington tomorrow. I'm Bloomington, Indiana tomorrow for the weekend, comedy attic. The... Let's plug that, by the way. Yeah, when's this going to go up now? It's going up Friday at 3 a.m. Excellent. So Saturday night, I'll have two shows in Bloomington, Indiana. What's the name of the club? The Comedy Attic. And it's a great club. It's Bloomington, Indiana is sort of the college town in Indiana. And I love it. It's full of... I love doing a college town like Madison or Ann Arbor or Austin or Portland, you know. They come out for you. Yeah, and it's interesting about the podcast. I pretty much limit my stand up to Manhattan just because of work and I can't go on the road that much. Yeah. But I have noticed even in Manhattan people recognize me from the podcast. Well, that's awesome. Isn't it more so than any other thing that I've done? Yeah. It's bizarre. Maria Bamford, you brought her around to my radio show but she wouldn't do it. She wouldn't do it? You brought her in one night and she hung out and she sat and watched but I couldn't get her to participate. The other story is that I brought her to San Francisco. I was headlining. I always tell the story on the show. She was my opening act and I was selling tickets like never before and my ego was getting really big until I noticed that they were all there to see Maria. The star is born. I felt like Chris Christofferson and she was Barbara Streisand. Well, this has been too... It has not been too long. It's been too long since you've been here. It's been too short while you've been here. Jackie Cation will be at the Comedy Cellar in Bloomington, Indiana starting tonight. Go see her. What did I say? Cellar. Nobody's cellar instead of Comedy Attic. Let's go upstairs. Don't go down. Yeah. You're good. I don't even want to get into it. But I'm coming to New York. You've got to hang out. When are you coming to New York? I'll be there for a couple of days in August and a couple of days in September. Where are you planning? I'm opening for Maria in, I think, August and I'm doing the Cinder Block Comedy Fest in Brooklyn in September. And you have a new podcast with Laurie Kilmartin called The Jackie and Laurie Show. Right. If you don't want to listen to two middle-aged white guys talking about comedy, tune into The Jackie and Laurie Show where two middle-aged white ladies. It's not exactly a step forward. It's more of a lateral move. Jackie's brand new album is I am not the hero of this story. Listen to the dork forest now going into its 12th year. Yeah. Congratulations. Come back. Thank you.