 Okay. Okay. So, first, I just give a brief overview of the talk. There will be six part. And the first part is about before Bernhard Carl Grimm. The second part is Carl Grimm in the 20th century. The third part is about the six vowel hypothesis or the let's say those scholars who subscribe to the six vowel hypothesis and then I'll let it translate this before I go on to the next one. Okay. It's not correct. Yeah. Well, let's try what I'll do is to leave out all the names, I think. Yeah. And then it might still be helpful. So I'll try it on this next one. Okay. So then in the fourth, in the fourth section, I talk about the older generation of currently active scholars. And then in the fifth section, the younger generation of currently active scholars. And then I conclude with some comments about bridging the gap between philology and historical phenology. Okay. So, I start at the beginning, the earliest Western scholars who worked on old Chinese reconstruction. Before Bernhard Carl Grimm. So, Georgie or London has written some articles about this. And I was just reminded actually that he studied at this university. So, you all know him better than I do, I think. Yeah. So, he's been writing about the history of Western study of Chinese historical linguistics. And in particular, he's written about the contributions of these three men. So, Joshua Marshman, Joseph Edkins, and I don't know how to say the name exactly. So, I read his articles, these guys mostly worked on middle Chinese. And as far as I can tell nothing very important, they did about all Chinese. So I just say this was the beginning. Yeah. But nothing really to say that I can tell that is still valuable today. So, I, I move on to the first scholar who I think did something that's still useful today. So, this is Georg thunder goblins. And he's German. Yeah. And he wrote this big Chinese grammar. And in it, he points out that there are some characters that begin with a dealer. I think it's that Chen. That are used to so used in a session relationship with a character that has the line. So, then he, well, that's what this slide says. But then he said, maybe it's evidence for a cluster. So, this one, yeah, he thinks it comes from. So, that's a good idea. Yeah. We still believe it today. So he's the first person from the West who had a, you know, good idea about all Chinese reconstruction. Okay, but then I move on to the next one August Conrad. He also worked on Tibetan actually I used to work along. So, and he has a amazing mustache. Yeah. So he will come back to this idea, it's the origin of the Tom. Yeah. So he thought that maybe the chuxiang comes from a final at, you know, now we still think that he didn't have a very good reason for it. But his reason was this word for goose, which I think is a, is it no, maybe, yeah, this word for goose. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay, so in middle Chinese it's. Yeah. Yeah. And he thought maybe it's related to the word go, which comes from in Indo-European. Yeah. So then he thought, maybe this chuxiang is the S. Yeah. So that was his idea and whether or not he had a good reason for thinking it, it was right. Yeah. So, I think those are the two scholars to before Carl Green had some useful ideas that we still believe today. So that's it for Conrad. So then we come to Carl Green. I think probably everyone knows who is Carl Green. I don't need to say very much about him. He was a Swedish and he used the rhyme table tradition to study the different dialects in the 1920s. You know, he was, he went on horseback from village to village, trying to listen to what people said for different characters. And I think that was his first contribution was trying to bring together the study of dialects and the study of the rhyme tables. And then a little bit later, he studied the works of the Qing phenologists like Duan Yuzai and whatnot. And he's the first Western scholar who studied the Qing phenologists. Okay. So, oops, we go forward. Here we go. So he has this book with lists, all of his reconstructions of I think about 9000 characters. I'm not sure. I think the grammar is the second edition. So I guess it's just called Han Wen Tian. But his reconstructions are strange, let's say, yeah, you've probably all seen them, and you recognize that they're strange, many, many vowels, many strange symbols you never know how to understand it. So, you know, an important pioneer, I think major turning points in the reconstruction of Chinese, all Chinese, but maybe very out of date. Yeah. So that's Carl Grun. Now. I move on to Andre Jacques, he actually very interesting person. He was trained as a agricultural scientist. And that's why here he's smelling some wheat or something. Yeah. And then he spent a lot of time in Vietnam as part of the French colonialism. And I think mostly worked on languages in Vietnam. But he has two important contributions to Chinese historical analogy. One of them he is famous for one of them he's not so famous for. And then I would generally say that this method of internal reconstruction is something he brought to Chinese linguistics and in general the French are good at internal reconstruction. The Germans are good at comparative reconstruction, at least in the early 20th century. Let's look at his two major ideas. Okay, so the first one. And you'll have to just, you'll have to just follow along in the translation. But he proposed that some hookah syllables, in particular in certain rhymes and I list them there. That they come from levy of either constant. Yeah. So this idea is, I think, usually associated with, I'm not sure, maybe pulley blank or. On top, I'm not sure, but he wrote about it first. So, let me just make sure does everyone has everyone followed what it's about. The reconstruction of levy of either. So, so in, so there's two kinds of hookah in middle Chinese, right, depending on what rhymes they go with one, one kind is restricted to dealer initials. Yeah, you can explain. Yeah, so all right, like, I mean, this is a, like, if we have a syllable in, in middle Chinese, like one. Sorry, one one. It goes, it goes back always the tone. Yeah, this one. So middle Chinese one always goes back to phone. That's called the rounded vowel hypothesis. We haven't gotten to it yet. Yeah. But one. Yeah, yeah. Has two sources. Okay. Yeah, this is the brand. Okay. So one can come from two things either from cone, same, same as this one or one. Yeah, where the W moves upstairs. Yeah. This idea is a record. Yeah. He's the one who invented this idea. Yeah. So, yeah, and I think this, this thing he's not so famous for actually, I think, yeah. He kind of said it is a, in a long article, he said, oh, maybe this is true. So, anyhow, so this is an idea that we still use that all Chinese had labial dealer contents, not just dealer. Yeah, the old Chinese had both. Like all trainees had both plain dealers and labor viewers, right? All Chinese had. Both plane dealers and labor viewers. Yeah. This, this one in hook out fillable. And this one in both high and high and and some hook up. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's the old recourse idea. Oh, I hadn't put it up there maybe anyhow now it's. No, now this is the next one. Yeah. Okay. So he. So now something by Vietnamese that doesn't need to retain us very long. But he showed that the tones of Vietnamese correspond to segments in related languages to Vietnamese. And in particular that one tone came from final S. And another tone came from global stop. So, in one paper, he wrote this only about the history of Vietnamese inherited words. So, so what's Vietnamese is, is a is it. What language family is Vietnamese. Any language is like a Rook, which is related to Vietnamese but doesn't have tones. It has this S and this global stop where Vietnamese has rising tone or falling tone. Yeah, and, and then it works for Vietnamese inherited words. So why not try the same hypothesis for Chinese words loaned into Vietnamese. So then he proposed that the two shang comes from final and. And yeah, and then he's famous for this. But we know that Gail on the goblins actually. No, it was, it was not goblins it was already he proposed it first. So, I just go back right. So, so he proposed it based on the word for goose. And then. Odric or whoops here, proposes it based on these correspondences with Vietnamese. So it's a much better reason. And I think he's justly very famous for this. And the whole study of the origin of tone was kind of started by Odric or. Yeah, okay. So that's it for Odric or and then next we get to Edwin Polly blank. And he was a very productive scholar and lived to be quite old. So he has many ideas. So I'm not going to list them all. Yeah. But the one I notice here is what Baxter later calls the RJ hypothesis. And this idea is that Chong new division three, so Chong new song. Originally had a medial are. So now, just to put the pieces together, right. This guy. He said that, let's say, in effect, he said it's a little bit simpler what he actually said. He said that the are done at the media are right. But then. Holy blank. He said whoops. He said that the Chong new song. Yeah, as the media are okay. So now, we're starting to get Chinese like we know it's today, right? Yeah. And then the other important contribution of his that I would like to point out is he noticed some shesha contact between email and Dingmu. And I don't know how to say this one. Okay. And he originally reconstructed these as. Yeah. It's not such a good idea. So now we reconstructed as an L love. Yeah. And you can work. Maybe if I can say a little digression, right. The line move comes from an are right. So it's, it's. When people first thought about it, they thought the line will probably come from an L because limo is an L. Yeah. So it was because of that that he thought, oh, I need to find something else than L. Yeah. But now we decide, okay, limo comes from our so then the L can make this. This immu in type B syllables. So basically in San Deng, and then it becomes D in type A so both in E done and are done and well it gets complicated with the Chongyu stuff but anyhow, and then I just want to point out I think now sort of in the 1960s when I proposed this, it can be thought of as a conjecture like maybe it's true, maybe it's not true. But now we have evidence from watch on dialect. They say this word earth, they say the, yeah. So it's, I think, strong evidence that leave link was right, or let's say that this patient contact between email and think actually does come from out right. It's, now I think it's in his day it was a smart idea maybe it's right. Maybe it's wrong. I think now we, we can be totally sure it's right that this comes from an L. Okay. Now, later in his life. Maybe, maybe let's say after 1980, maybe he starts to think strain things. Yeah. So, I would say, I would say, really fully blank from 1960 to 1980, not after 1980. So like one of the strange things he thinks is that all Chinese has only two vowels. So nobody believes it except he has one student who believes it. Yeah. So, yeah, just be a little bit careful when you read things by pulling blank. Yeah. He's also very grumpy wrote a very mean book reviews. Okay, so that's it for, let's say, I mean, in the simplest terms that's it for people who have already died. Yeah. So now I will talk about. Well, some people who have died and some people haven't, but more recent scholars with the six vowel hypothesis. And now I'll just say that the six vowel hypothesis is too complicated for me to talk about today. Yeah. So, I think that your instrument, most people believe the fix valve hypothesis. Is it true? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But of course, in Beijing, people don't believe it. Yeah, so. Yeah, yeah. And some people in Taipei still don't believe it. I think, yeah. I believe it, but I find it very hard to explain the students. Yeah. I think that, well, let me just back up and say three people thought of it at the same time. Yeah. So, John, I think was probably the first. And then Sergey Stadostin, and Bill Baxter. And now both Stadostin and Baxter were working from work of Sergey, you know, that's not his name. That was the name. Anyhow, yep, yeah. So, I think that the fact that Stadostin and Baxter came up with the same idea is not a coincidence because they were starting from the same starting point. They both start from, from, yeah. Yeah. But I don't know if John, John, Sean, from new, yeah, I think probably he didn't in the stick of these. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't know. So we can say, at least two independent discoveries of the six valve theory, and maybe three independent discoveries. That alone, the Jeff is right, you know, like Newton and Leibniz discovered calculus at the same time. It means it's probably right. Yeah. But I'm really struggled to find a simple clear way to teach the thick valve hypothesis. So if you have some, you know, advice, I would be very grateful. And I think, which I say here, I think it would be really nice if someone wrote a small book where they just explain, you know, how did John, John from discovered how did Baxter discovered how did Baxter discovered. Maybe this is a good place to mention also that Baxter's teacher is Nicholas Bodman. And somehow they discovered it together, I think, yeah, somehow. But Baxter is the one who wrote the big book where Bodman didn't he, they were working together. And then in shaman, of course, I have to think about the bottom and his first book was a grammar of common dialect. Yeah. So, so I've checked it out of the library, but I didn't learn shaman dialogue. Yeah. Okay. So that's, you know, I think this also you probably. Most of you learned the six fell hypothesis that you probably know about these guys. Yeah. Okay, so now is when I actually talk about people who are still alive. And, you know, I don't know. I decided who to talk about who not to talk about. There is some extent it's arbitrary. Right. Like, I don't talk very much about Jerry Norman, but it doesn't mean I don't like him. But, but these are maybe this is where I put these are the scholars in the West, who I have used a lot in my own work. Okay, so there's Baxter and cigar. Then there's Axel Schussler. And then there's WS Coblin, and I go through them one at a time. So this is Well, this is long cigar and this is Bill Baxter. And this is them at the award for the Bloomfield prize. So they're booked in 2014 called old Chinese a new reconstruction. It won a really big prize. Yeah. So, So this is them when they got the prize. Yeah, so, so just a few words about their reconstruction. It's based on a wide range of evidence. So, you know, say, I mean, just to review. Usually, when we reconstruct all Chinese, we use middle Chinese. The rhymes in the searching. And she's on connections. Right. But they use the three. But they also add loan words into. And they also use pediography. So, their new Chinese is typologically consistent with other sign of Tibetan languages. Yeah, so it has syllables like. Yeah, like Tibetan or like older me is or something. But we can. So let's say it's, it's good. I like it. I use it. I'm friends with them. Yeah, I respect them. But I also can complain a little bit. Yeah. So, it's not very clear why they reconstruct a given word, a given way. Yeah. Like, why is it this word is this one. Like, why is this one you veeler this one dealer. Why does this one and then are they don't tell me. It's kind of hard to use. Yeah. And also, very complicated. So you have things like with. Yeah, like, like, like, a little, little strange, maybe. Yeah, maybe it's right, but it needs to be kind of studied more. And now that's them. So next I go to Axel Schussler and Axel Schussler. There's no photograph of him. I've met him. So I know he has a face. Yeah. But nowhere on the internet is a picture of him. And I even I emailed him. I said, look, I'm going to give a talk at shaman dachoe. I have a picture of everyone else. Yeah. And he said, I don't give you a picture. Yeah. So I have a picture of his book. Yeah. So I would say, let's say, when, when Westerners come to me and they say, Oh, old Chinese is so difficult. It's so complicated. How can I know like how to reconstruct something. And the person says, you know, like one Lee says this and judge and Sean from says this and power union says this. It's so confusing. I say, use shuffler, because it's, it's very easy to use. Yeah. And he belongs to the sixth vowel school. So, so it's, yeah, so it's easy to use. Yeah. But those things that are controversial about Baxter in the guard, he doesn't include. Yeah. So for instance, he doesn't have you viewers. He doesn't have so many prefixes. He doesn't have final are, but it's a kind of a simple old Chinese. Yeah. And it's, I think, useful for people who aren't professionals. Yeah, if you're a linguist who works on another language, you just want to check what's all the old Chinese. I think his books are really useful. Yeah. And also, when I have to reconstruct all Chinese, I usually start with chiseler. I ask myself, what would Baxter and cigar do. Yeah. But if I start with chiseler, it saves me a lot of time. Okay, so that it for chiseler, I will say he doesn't really, let's say, I mean, I don't mean this to insult him. I think he would agree. But he doesn't have any big ideas himself. He's not trying to have big ideas. He's trying to tell you what everyone agrees about. Okay, so that's actual chiseler. And then, next is WS colon. So colon. When he started out as a young scholar, he was working like everyone else like trying to reconstruct using Chishang series, for example, yeah, so he wrote one article about Shushang. And he worked a lot on the Han dynasty. But then, in the nineties, he decided all of this yunjing, Che Yun, it's not. He doesn't like it anymore. Yeah. So he only uses Chinese dialects. So, and tries to figure out using just the comparative method. How can I reconstruct all Chinese using no evidence from philology only from dialects. And I think it's a very important thing to happen. Right. Like, I think, of course, we should look at the yunjing and the Che Yun. But maybe it is very useful to try to reconstruct all Chinese, just from the dialect. And then you see what it looks like. Right. And then you can compare what information you lose. So he's been doing that since the nineties, basically, and he's done it for several varieties gun. That's the one that comes to my mind, but he's done about four or five books. Mostly published by academia. And I think I have PDF of all of them. So if you want, I can give you. And then the other thing he does is works with alphabetic representations of Chinese. So like the mungut. Yeah, he has a book about. Eastern Han Soundglasses. Yeah, that's sort of like, there's food WF Coblin there's young WS Coblin and old WS Coblin. And this Eastern Han Soundglasses is the young one. So he doesn't like this book anymore. And it's also it's before the six valve theory. So he stuck very close to leaf on quays reconstruction. So this book has lots of good data, but it's very hard to use. I think no one needs to do it all again. Yeah. But but now he worked only on dialects. And on alphabetic representations. So he looks a lot of missionary dictionaries like Morrison's dictionary. So Portuguese missionaries in the 17th century. So he looks very closely like, you know, this is what is in bossy boss script. This is what is this missionary. And like he's written a lot about this we were talking about earlier, like when did me when did me finish to what part of the country, very detailed work. Boring to read, but very useful. Yeah. Yeah, so here I say, I think if he makes a significant step towards understanding the development of Chinese into its different dialects. And then he's now quite old. He's still he's still healthy. He's still active. You can send him an email. He writes back, but he's quite old and he's not doing so much anymore. So, I asked myself who still works in this position. And the person who comes to my mind. But maybe you know other people is shun reaching in in Singapore. So he in particular has been working on reconstruction of Proto mean. Yeah. And I think this is, I don't know. For me, the thing I want most to know is what Proto mean, because, because back trans cigar use men in their reconstruction. But they use men from like the 1970s, like very old work on men by Jerry Norman. So, I think one thing that we need now is a new complete reconstruction of Proto mean so that then we can use that in all Chinese. And I'm hoping that we will have in Dublin this year, a series of online talks, maybe four or five. About mean dialects. So, if you're in Dublin, maybe you can. But otherwise we will record them and put them on Billy Billy as well. And if you know some people working on reconstruction of Proto mean who I don't know. Yeah, then please tell me. That's it for the older generation of currently active scholars. And now I move on to younger generation. Yeah, and now I would say I'm this generation also professor. Yeah, I think it's still young. Yeah. So in the West, I think there are three things I want to draw your attention to the first one is what I call the Paris school. So the Paris school they mostly work on jarron, but also on old Chinese. And then I want to talk about the use of computer methodology. It's like digital humanities computational methodologies in the study of old Chinese. And then I will end by talking about the philology of excavated text. Okay. Is it working so far like most people understand most of it. Yeah. Okay. You can always ask a question. Okay, well, then I'll go on. Yeah, go on. Okay. So then first I talked about the Paris school. So I misspelled his name. Sorry about that. So don't take a picture because it's a misspelling. Anyhow, so the Paris school is led by Guillaume Jacques is not exactly true to say he's a student of Lawrence cigar, because Lawrence cigar did not supervise his PhD dissertation, but we can think of him as a student of Lawrence cigar. And his primary focus is on the Garon languages of Sichuan. So he worked on job. Yeah. And wrote a big grammar like two years ago about job of getting. And his students like two of his students are in Dublin with me, like, and they also both work on get on his student. In Vienna, he also worked on get so lots of people working on get on now. And, and they're all somehow from Paris. Yeah. But they, they also work on old Chinese. The goal is to contextualize all Chinese as a sign of Tibetan language. So they actually have, for instance, a very nice paper from a few years ago about cognates between Garon and all Chinese. Yeah. So, and I think this is this is really a nice development because in general, people who work on to better vermin languages, they don't know any Chinese. And people who work on Chinese, they don't know any Tibetan languages. So I think this has been a big problem that Chinese is one thing and to better Burma is another thing. So I think the Paris school is really helping to bring them together so that Chinese can help us with to better Burma and to better Burma can help us with Chinese. Of course, it has to be done carefully, right. I sometimes think Zhang Zhang Zhang Feng makes Chinese too much like the bed. Yeah. Okay, so that's it for the Paris school. Now I talk about I didn't have a name for this school. Yeah, where is it. Yeah, but using new methods like fancy computer technique. Yeah. So this is a Johann Marcus list. He was used to be in Vienna. Yeah. But now he's in hostile, which is in the south of Germany. Very beautiful city. Yeah. And he worked together with me. He does more work on live more lazy. Yeah. But we have some papers together. Yeah. And in particular, so we've tried various things, but in particular, we use techniques from biology. Well, well, we got them from biology, but they're used in many different sciences, network technique network methods. And I, you know, I could give a whole talk about it. So I want, but simply put, like, if you have a friend, like, I don't know if you have like on WeChat, your friends with someone, you can understand it as. I mean, like, just, here's one person. Here's another person. And then they're friends. Right. So one person, another person and their friends. Yeah. So you can also think of it as one character. And another character and they run. Yeah. And if you use this formalization, there's all kinds of software tools just available. Like that are used in the study of social network. Also, many other things like planning a subway system. Yeah, or any kind of network. There's a whole science of network theory. So we don't study network theory, but we use some little pieces of network theory to study all Chinese. So, like I say, I have some, there are some talks on Billy Billy. But I just show you the truth that there are talks on Billy Billy. Yeah. Okay, so here's, here's one pop. This talk is from a long time ago now, maybe 2013 or something. Yeah. Using network models to analyze old Chinese rhyme data. You can see he was much younger, right? Here's this is him this year. This is him in 2013. Yeah. This is where he first proposes to use network theory. So if you are new to the idea of network theory, it's a good start. He talks very slowly through what is a network. How do you do network theory? Yeah. Okay, so moving ahead now. Oh, this was 2016. I said it right there. Not 2016. Okay. So now I have a project in London where I have a postdoc actually. Here he is. Julian Bailey. He's French. And he's actually a software engineer at Microsoft. So he's very good at computer. It's really nice. Yeah. And this one is called networks as a tool for the study of Chinese rhymes. And this is very small, but these are all of the poems in the song and the song. All of the shirt bones. Yeah, not. Yeah. And then the different colors are the different rhyme categories that the computer recognizes. Yeah. And then he has a new talk just from last year called evaluating rhyme annotations for large corpora so you can use the computer to decide this rhymes, this rhymes, but then you have to check is it right what the computer did. Right. And it's hard because if I have to check everything, it doesn't save me any time to use the computer. Right. So he's trying to find a way to estimate how good the computer has performed. Yeah. And we have a couple papers out soon, like maybe next three months, next six months, some papers about using network theory to study old Chinese. And Julian has mostly worked on the tongue and the song, because the data is, you just, you know, just go online, you get the data. Yeah. I'm not so interested in the tongue and the song. So, so I'm trying to get him to work on the Han, and the warring states, but it's not so much data, yeah, and not as convenient the data. So we're still working on collecting the data in a convenient way for the computer to read. So those are, you know, these are just, these are three, three talks about network theory that you can watch on Billy Billy, if you want. And this is the work that we're doing in London. So I'm in Ireland, but I still have one research project in London. So it is the research project in London. And I'm realizing I'm probably talking to that. I tried to slow down again. Okay, so that was, you know, just to review what I was going to talk about whoops here. So these three, so the parents school, the use of network methods, and then philology of excavated text. So this is not something I know anything about. You know, much more about it than I do. Yeah. But I think it's extremely important, right? Like something like rhyme data. Every day we get new discoveries with tech with run. With text with Tom job. So it's, you know, it's really a good time to be working on all Chinese. Very exciting every day. New things. Right. So I just mentioned here, some of my favorite authors who work in excavated philology who write. Yeah. So there's Ed Shaughnessy at University of Chicago. He's a little bit old nowadays. Oh, really. Two years ago. Yeah. He's well then you know him. Like, I was very lucky he came to, he was in New Neck for a year, maybe two years. And during this time he came to London, maybe three, four times. So I saw him there. And as you know, he's just very elegant. Yeah, very elegant man. Yeah. Yeah, very charming. Very. Yeah. And also his, like his work is really good. Like, he has a book on genuine. It's the kind of the, you know, in English, there's two books. In English, there's two books. One is a. One is about Java when and it's by David Keatley. And then the one about genuine is by Shaughnessy and it's really very nice book. Yes. Okay. And then the next person I mentioned is Wren Speaks Man. And he was at he's a young guy. I mean, look at my age. Did his PhD at Oxford. And he was at Wuhan for a couple of years. But now he moved to Tsinghua. And I think he also does really just whenever I read something like my feel really happy. Yeah. Okay. And then Scott Cook. You probably know he's he worked on the Guardian wrote a big two volume book about the Guardian. And he works at in Singapore, kind of, I don't understand Yale NSU is somehow Yale in Singapore. Yeah. But anyhow, and he mostly writes now in Chinese. So his early works were in English. But now I think mostly he writes in Chinese. And then another person I like is Adam Smith. Don't confuse him with the economist from the 18th century. He's a different Adam Smith. You all know Adam Smith is very famous British economist from the 18th century. But this is different Adam Smith. Yeah. Yeah. He's a English guy who works in America at the University of Pennsylvania. And he works, I guess, on Java when mostly, yeah. But I'm very happy because when I was in Beijing in 2019, in December, people told me that on way. So I had come out with this new searching, right. And then it hadn't been published yet, or it may be just been published. But I said, can you give me the. And so, then I asked Adam to write a book review for be so at this journal that I'm associated with. Yeah. I wrote a very long, very nice book review about this on way. Virginia. Yeah. And then also tell you tell you that if you want to write a book review about a book that's good book that came out in China about Chinese historical analogy. I mean, no, and maybe I can arrange for you to publish also a book review about in the be so as is the the journal. I'll write it. Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African State. Yeah. PSOF is so journal. Yeah. And it's pretty good, not not top top, but kind of pretty good journal. I'm trying to get more reviews about things from China. So those are my favorite scholars writing in English about the philology of excavated text. Now, what would I say is, so. I think that the philology of excavated tech is one of the few areas. Where Western Sinologists are competitive with people in China in China. I don't say they're better or which one's better. It's not the point but I think they do good work. Right. Whereas for something like mini history forget about it. Yeah, people in the West are useless you. The best is in China, right. I think for song for me for the best work is always in China. But my sense is that in early China, some people in the West are worth reading. Yeah. That's my, I don't know what you think that's my sense is they're still useful work being done in the West in early China. And then younger scholars someone like Adam Smith or rents treatment. They start to pay attention to historical phenology. So I would say, honestly, he doesn't care. Yeah. But like thought book and rents that they know Baxter and cigars work. Yeah. And they try to use it a little bit. So I think it's a really good development. Yeah. But I think it's still big gap between the linguists and the philologist. Like just even the IPA symbols, the, the final just they don't they look at IPA this. It's not so nice. So I think it's start. We start to get some working together between philologists and linguists, but it's very slow process and maybe, you know, maybe your generation, you can do it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that this, you know, let's say Baxter and cigar. They try to use some philology of activated text, but not very much. Whereas the philologists like rents treatment or. They try to use a little bit of historical phenology, but they don't use it very much. Yeah. And actually, I think, you know, if I can say, I think one thing I really admire about professor. Yeah, is she's really does both historical phenology and the philology of excavated text. I think this is extremely rare. So you're lucky to be able to study with her. Okay, so that's the whole of my discussion of the history of Chinese historical linguistics in the West.