 I'm really excited to be here with Angela Johnson. I am really looking forward to having us talk about intuitive marketing. That's one of the things Angela is really good at. Angela, thanks for joining me. Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, me too. So let me just share your kind of background just a little bit with the audience and then we'll get into this conversation here. So Angela Johnson is on a mission to teach sole inspired entrepreneurs to break up with toxic marketing and to grow their business without the hype and the hustle. As the founder of the Collective for Creators, which I'll have you talk about that later, and the creator of the Intuitive Marketing Matrix and I'll have you talk about Intuitive Marketing as well, as well as the sole message archetypes which also is fascinating, which you might wanna mention. Angela blazes a path for entrepreneurs to trust themselves, break the rules, and radically change what they think is possible and make more money actually doing the work they love to do. So this is awesome. So much to talk about. Maybe actually we could start with what, how you define Intuitive Marketing because I think the way you do it is really interesting. Yeah, so when we take a look at traditional marketing, it's a lot of here's the way, the right way and a lot of convincing energy, a lot of talk, you know, with these promises. You know, we see this a lot in, well, in all industries and I focus this really on online business, coaches, authors, healers, practitioners, you know, people that I work with. And so in online marketing space, particularly, it's here is the, you know, six step formula to reach six figures in six seconds and that sounds really, really sexy. You know, I was totally enamored with that message of like, wow, and I was so tired of being broke. I got fired in 2008, which started my whole entrepreneurial journey. So right as the housing market is crashing, you know, my husband and I bought a home the year before and overnight we lost, you know, tens of thousands of dollars in equity. So, so I was really enamored with, oh, you mean just a regular person like me, like if I just do these things, I'll make more money than I ever made in my corporate career, huh, okay. Well, let me, let me figure out how to, you know, pay a hind coach and I figured it out and I started on this path. So this is very common for people and not just in, in business, but we think about life in general, like there's one path, there's one way and we're not taught to trust ourselves. And so the intuitive marketing matrix, it's really four types of marketing that when we trust ourselves, so we ask questions. So I'm a big question asker. For example, a very simple example, you know, one of the questions you probably get this to George, what's the best day of the week to send my newsletter? Well, the people are looking for the answer. The path to ensure success rather than, well, what's my best day of the week to send a newsletter? And, and I believe that everything is energy, energy is everything that's one of the principles of intuitive marketing, including our business. So I believe that everything has, if you think about it, soul energy or just energy. And so when we tune into business, and it's like having a conversation just like you and I are having a conversation, when would you like the business or the newsletter to be sent? Rather than what most people do is they look for the right answer. They Google stuff, they do all this research. When it's just like, well, what would it create in your business if you asked the question, trusted yourself and then took action on that? Rather than trying to fit yourself and pigeonhole yourself into what someone else deemed as the way that's really their way, it's not your way. So that's really it in a nutshell is trusting yourself, asking questions. And the other side of this too, people go, oh great, I'm super intuitive. I can just do it on my own. I don't have to hire a coach. I don't have to have any sort of outside support. I can just do it on my own, which as you can probably tell, like that creates a whole other problem. So it's about receiving guidance, receiving coaching and support. And at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is you trusting yourself and taking action on what is an alignment for you. And that's like just, so it's a whole system. It's a very easy framework to teach people how to do that and really unlearn this tendency, this default that we all have on some level that someone is gonna tell me the right answer. Yeah, oh my gosh. And then I'll be successful, right? And it's just gonna be six steps, right? Yeah, I love this so much. I loved how simple you make it and the way you describe it and it feels right. And if I look at the way that I've made so many decisions in my business, it's like I do that, but you've just described it much. You're like, oh yeah, that is the process. I think many of us look for, well, in fact, I would say, the fact that people are watching this right now or listening to this right now means that they are learners, right? Like those of you watching or listening, you love learning. You know that with more knowledge comes more capabilities and the danger, of course, of learning more is that you always realize, okay, there's even more to learn. And growing up, most of us were schooled, one, two, three steps. If you just memorize the steps and the formulas and regurgitate them on the exam, you'll tend to do pretty well. And so kind of we're repeating that whereas being an entrepreneur is pretty much the opposite of that. It's like you have to create your own path. And okay, so this is really good. So you started talking about the matrix. I don't know how much you're able to dive into it on this kind of short conversation, but anything else you wanna say there, I'm sure would be fascinating. Yeah, I can give people a take, a two minute, give you synopsis. And so this is really the easy way to create a one-page marketing plan. So if everyone, you know, if you're listening, don't do this while you're driving, but come back to this, get out a piece of paper, this, you know, blank piece of paper, super fancy and draw, you know, from four boxes. And we're gonna go from the upper left and then around. So these are the four types of marketing. You know, I will say this, that I was, I've been a marketer my whole life. That's what I did in corporate America. That's what I've been doing, you know, as an entrepreneur since 2008. And what I noticed is when my clients and myself, when we had these four types of marketing present and we were consistent in them, that that's when we saw results consistently and not results because we were pushing and it was forced and then we were exhausted. But the kind of results that were easy, that showed up, there was this magic to it. And I thought, okay, I think I'm onto something here. And so I did some beta tests and my clients were like, oh wait, yeah, this, this makes so much sense. So upper left-hand quadrant, it's, so these are the four types of marketing, it's energetic. So you can put your mindset here. This is your daily ritual. This is your energy for those of you who believe in meditation, but this is also why you believe you can and can't. You have to address that because it will pop up later in somewhere else in your business. And so the energetic. So this is something that you do daily. So this is how you daily connect to your business, the soul of what you really want, your desires. So that's that part. The second part is nurture. So nurture marketing. Like I would say that you like, from what I do know about you, George, like nurture marketing is your specialty and nurture is connecting with people, building relationships. So past clients, existing clients, your prospects, your community, your online community, joint ventures, collaborations, like leaning into relationships. And so a lot of times people get stuck with, well, I've got to have a budget for Facebook ads or I've got to do this. It's like, well, what relationship can you tap into? Can you lean into and develop? And so this is something that you do consistently. And these are the kinds of relationships that the investment that comes back comes time and time and time again, but you have to be intentional about creating these relationships and not just reaching out to people when you're promoting something. Like I actually create some reciprocity and some generative energy between the two of you. So that's the upper right hand quadrant. So now the lower left hand quadrant is visibility marketing. And this is your on and offline presence. So this is where content marketing fits. And so we can, you know, visibility marketing, content marketing, it all goes in that quadrant. And then the bottom right hand corner is your launch marketing. And there are times that there is, you know, a launch, like an official launch, you have affiliate partners, like it's a little bit more of a bigger to do. But here's that thing is when people think about launch and they get overwhelmed or they've launched before and they've followed someone's system and they're so exhausted by the end of that launch that like, I never want to do that again. I hear that from a lot of my clients. I'm never launching again. I hate being in launch mode all the time. And so when you're doing the energetic, the nurture and the visibility marketing, the tendency or even the need to do these big official launches, you might find yourself that you actually don't have to do those. So the launch becomes, hey, doors are open to this. Come and check it out. But because you've been visible, because your energy is in alignment, because you have these relationships, when doors are open, it's not this big overdone launch. It's just doors are open. Here's where you can register. And so it changes the energy of launch where so many people are like, I don't want to do launches because we've heard horror stories about it. So in a nutshell, that's intuitive marketing. And so when you create a plan, you set your target. What is it that I would like to create? How many people would I like to have in this program? And then you go through each quadrant and ask questions. Well, who's a relationship that would support this? You know, what kind of content would feel really fun for me to create and be really generative and be magnetic for the people I would like to have for this offer? So it's a little more detailed than that, but that's the basics in a nutshell. And you have a downloadable one page to help people plan this. And so I'll be sure to put the link in below and folks can go and go and check it out. You also have the sole message archetypes. And again, this is a body of work. So I don't assume we can talk about it forever here, but just can you give us a sense of what that means? The sole message archetypes. Yeah. So in addition to marketing, I've been a messenger, wordsmith, copywriter. So those two things go hand in hand. And I have one of my superpowers is helping people take all the things they think they're saying and actually put those into words that not only makes sense, that feel really good on the line, but also are magnetic to their ideal client. And so again, it was, you know, I'm the person who always asking questions. And I started noticing with my clients who their copywriting and their content and their message was just landing. And I thought, okay, what's making this land? Like what is, what is magnetic about this? It's not just the words, that's part of it. So I identified five, a different sole message archetypes. And the same link, you know, people can download the one page, they can go and take a quiz and learn about this. But for example, my primary archetype is the champion. And so this is really identifying the essence of what I'm about, what I'm here on the planet to do. And the champion is about championing causes. It's about believing in people. It's, you know, the person who's supporting the underdog, the person who believes in possibility, the person who believes that, you know, you can create change and I'm here to guide you to help you know how to do that. And so that infuses everything I do. Another example is actually just talking with a friend today who's what's called the peace whisperer. Her whole essence is that you are here to love and be loved. And that infuses every aspect of her work. And so once she identified that, then we put the marketing message on top of that. But you've identified this core of, oh yeah, this is what I'm about. This is what I do. And so it's this embodiment practice, if you will, of this is why I'm here. And then when you pair that with a marketing message, then it just makes sense. It just clicks for people because it's on a foundation of an energetic, what's the word I'm trying to think of? It's just, it's congruent. Everything's congruent. So yeah, yeah. And speaking of this alignment and misalignment, I mean, one of the things that you teach is, you know, when we do our business, when we kind of start taking action, sometimes we come across fear. And you look at that differently than how some coaches might. Yeah, talk about that. Yeah, so one of the things that I teach is when people are freaking out, we all have those freakouts. Like, can I really do this? Oh my gosh, you know, when we have those moments of, oh, oh dear, what did I just say yes to? And is it fear or is it misalignment? And I remember, and I take this, you know, when I hired these big name coaches back in 2008, and I learned a couple of very hard lessons and invested a lot of money, tens of thousands of dollars in coaches. And it wasn't until years later that I realized what was happening. And so when I would come up against a strategy, like, Angela, if you just do this, this, and this, and this, and it made sense on one level because it's like, I could see it working for other people. I could see that it was working for my coach and gosh, there are seven-figure business owners, they must know what they're talking about. Like this must be a real thing. And I would have this sensation in my body that was like, I don't know, this is the right thing. And so what I was told was, Angela, that's just your fear talking. You can't let fear make another decision for you. You have to bust through this. Now years later, what I recognize is that wasn't fear, that was misalignment. It was my soul saying, yeah, this is not the thing for you. Like you don't wanna run a three-day event and have it be a pitch fest. You don't want to have a tele-summit and have, you know, 30 experts on it just because, you know, other people are doing it. Like these things that were just out of alignment for me. And so what I tell people is, you know, ask your body, body, show me fear. And we all know what fear is. Body, show me misalignment. And you start developing this practice within yourself that you can easily spot of like, oh, this is an alignment and it really is fear. It's my, I'm up my growth edge of, I'm actually just very uncomfortable. But discomfort doesn't always mean misalignment. Discomfort means you're developing a new muscle. You are embracing a new level of visibility, which is not the most comfortable thing, but it's in alignment with who you are and where you wanna go. So this distinction is a personal thing for every single person. And you just keep developing this practice where you can more quickly know, is this truly fear? And I'm just gonna push through it. I'm just going to be with it. Or is this my soul saying, this isn't the path. This isn't the next step for you. You know, and so you can see where there's, there's so much nuance here that we can easily talk ourselves in and out of things. And so that's why I say, it's a practice. We get better and better at it. Yeah, I was gonna say that is a really good one. Oh my gosh, the difference, the felt difference between misalignment and sort of growth edge. Wow, that's a powerful one. Any other, yeah, because I think that is so key, right? It's like, if we could understand that, well, that's where I think that's why the intuitive marketing works so well. Give us any other kind of tips or a practice or maybe you can think of a story of a client who's been practicing this, like what else, how else can we sense of that? Cause I think a lot of times you're right. It's like, you know, especially those, those who are here in the audience who do work with coaches and other supporters that support people. Like, yeah, it's like we're told, no, no, that's just your resistance. Like there's this common, I mean, it's in the lingo, the cultural lingo of productivity, like, you know, resistance, like, you know, what the capital are, like you have to meet the resistance, break through it. So yeah, when is it a productive meeting with resistance working through that or with that versus a red flag that this is not the path that, you know, my soul wants to go on? Any other, yeah, hints there? Yeah, the fastest way and the most effective way in my opinion to really distinguish, like, am I just sabotaging myself? Right. Or if I actually choose to do this or if I break out of this, this freak out moment, is there gold on the other side of this without, you know, force and push and hustle and exhaustion, you know, like that's, like that's not, I don't believe we're on the planet to just suffer and struggle. And it's to ask a question. Let me give you an example. I call these expansive questions. And so if I were willing for this to be easy, what would I choose here? And you just notice, you just notice like, huh. And so questions and I can, you know, if we had more time, I'd go into geek out about the science and what happens in our brains and the neuro pathways, but also our energy body of, like, when we ask expansive questions like this, then what we're doing is we're telling ourselves, I know that there's my answer right here if I'm just willing to hear it. And it helps us be able to listen and hear what's our truth. Another example is, let's see. So if I were willing for this to be easy, what would I choose? What would my life and business look like in five years if I chose XYZ, you know, whatever the option is? What would my life and business look like in five years if I chose this option? So when I'm hiring people, both team members, coaches, you know, contractors, vendors, and I'm just like, gosh, I don't quite know which is going to be the best fit, then I'll ask a question like this. And so asking expansive questions is a really great way. It restores your self-trust. And people ask, well, do you have to be intuitive or do you have to be psychic, you know, to be able to know? And it's like, no, what you're looking for is what's lighter, expansive, and you can just feel like settled within you. And when you ask a question and you start, it's like this thunk, you know, this heaviness of the energy. You almost feel like constricted or contracted. Then it's like, okay, there's energy there, like pay attention to that, you know? And especially in the case of hiring coaches where their words are like, yeah, you can do this and it's going to be amazing. And listen to that gut response of just like, well, are they going to get me or am I just going to be taught yet another formula that I've got to fit myself into? So asking expansive questions is one of the easiest. And it's just, it could be simple as, what else is possible here that I've never even imagined? Yeah, I love this. And it takes your brain out of this obsessive sabotage and it goes into, okay, what is it that I want to create here? And then the answer, the answer for you, your next step, you'll just notice that. And it's not immediate. Sometimes it takes a couple of days. Sometimes you ask a question and you're just being curious about it. And a couple of weeks later, you randomly hear this podcast or someone mentions this book title for the third time or whatever it is. And it's like, oh yeah, the universe does have my back. Yes, yes. I was curious and I was welcoming. Oh my gosh. I want to encourage everyone to rewatch or re-listen to this because you've already shared, you've already been so generous to share. I mean, obviously it comes out of your wealth of experience. So it just kind of pours out of you, but there's a lot that you've already shared that I feel like it's like a lifetime of practice already. So this is really good. I want to ask you about what you're launching because it's so exciting and I want people to know about it. So the collective for creators. And we could talk about some of the other offerings you have too, because, and by the way, of course you have lots of free content. I want to make sure people have links, people will be able to get all the links below. But tell us the collective, tell us about this. Yeah, so I've had this vision for over a year now and I went to launch it in March, just as a pandemic hit. And it was like, oh, now it's not the time. And then I went to launch it in June as George Floyd was murdered. And it was like, nope, nope, this is not the time. And so now is the time. And so it's starting officially in January, 2021. But it's taking this concept of soulful and conscious entrepreneurs and when we think about, you know, going back to the nurture marketing, that quadrant of developing relationships, like where do we find people? We can find them online, our local communities. And for a lot of us who've been in the online business, then like, well, I'll just speak for myself. Like my way of meeting people has been, well, let me invest $20,000 in a high end mastermind or more and then build relationships. And that's one of the promises of being in a community like that. So I started thinking like, I don't think that that's necessary. And then traditional networking groups, you know, you go there and it's very linear. It's very not soulful. And then on the flip side, maybe the more spiritual entrepreneur groups, a lot of times, not on all cases, but they make money bad. It's like, no, we're just here to love and light. And it's like, well, I'm all about love and light. And I'm also about great, making great money, doing work that I love to do. So where is the place for me to be the strategist and the marketer and the person who's completely committed to grow my business and the place that I can use as universal principles and be in a like-minded community where it's not just making money at any cost. It's how do we create something greater together? And so that's the collective for creators. So if you think about it, it's a global networking group for conscious entrepreneurs who wanna create something beyond just this normal linear business model. But what really gets me excited about this is a 20% of our member dues go to what's called the contribution fund. And that contribution fund funds other projects and businesses and they focus on black women, indigenous women, women of color and also LGBTQ businesses. So people who are often get underfunded, who don't have support. And so then those businesses can apply for these zero percent interest loans and grants. On my nonprofit, we're still working out the details of that. And in part of that, that give back piece is I'm a big believer in giving back. And I'm a big believer that when a group of people get together, it doesn't mean that we're all investing $1,000 a month. It could be $50 a month. And over time, gosh, what would that be like? And so the grand vision is, what would it be like to give a million dollars away to businesses to create more equity, to create more racial justice, to create support for businesses who are doing great work who may often get overlooked. And how can we influence that? And so forth. Do you have a price point idea yet? I know this is in process right now and it's gonna launch a couple of months. Yeah, so membership is $100 a month and it's a 12 month membership. So in addition to this give back, there's a meeting once a month where we mastermind and collaborate. And what support do you need? And are you writing a book? Okay, you guys need to talk. And this collaborative that is not a lead coach who's facilitating it's we're all coming together on the same level to connect and support one another. Yeah, so there's a monthly structured mastermind meeting where you can find the resources that you need right now. And I imagine there's also an ongoing kind of group or place that people can connect. And so that's really great. Exactly. Awesome, awesome. And do you wanna share also about how else you work with clients or you have a couple of online courses too, right? Yeah, so I have my online intuitive marketing course. It's a full course. It takes everyone through like how to craft your offers, your messaging and also the marketing aspect. It's like the full, I call it the full enchilada course. I have a course called Word which is all about messaging and copywriting from this perspective of you're not here to convince people, you're here to share with people. And so this is the messaging that we don't emphasize on pain points that we're emphasizing possibilities and then rolling and inviting people into possibilities. You know, Emmy Wu, I don't know if you would know her but she's a great video marketer. Just a shout out to Emmy. She had this phrase that I recently saw that she created. She goes, we're not here to fix people's problems. We're here to create the space for the magic to happen. And to me that summarizes what you do, what I do. Like we're, yes we can look at problems but we're not poking off those pain points as a way to convince people or manipulate people. I think it's a very different way. Anyway, not that I want to go off on a whole soapbox tangent there but yeah, I have many, many online courses that are available, so. Awesome, awesome. Amazing. Well, this is why I wanted to bring you to this conversation. And I hope everyone who's watching this who feels some, ah, this is expansive. This is gonna be helpful. Please do check out Angela's links below. You can download that intuitive marketing matrix, that one pager. You can also check out the sole message archetypes, you know, take the quiz to find out what archetype you are and then that will help you with your messaging. Anyway, lots of great resources in the links below. Any kind of final word of encouragement to, you know, heart-based entrepreneurs here? You know, I always end my interviews like this with one point because it's so relevant and it's just this reminder that you're right on time. And we can't arrive a second late to our life. Even, you know, with the challenges of 2020 so far, like it can feel like a lot of things have been delayed. I've definitely had those thoughts of, gosh, all these plans I have for this year have not happened the way I thought they would. And so just that reminder of you're right on time. And so if you're right on time, then what do you choose next? I love that. What a great, what a great conclusion. So thank you so much, Angela. Well, folks, I hope you'll rewatch this, rehear it again, because I think you're gonna get some nuggets each time you do. Thank you so much for the work that you do and for having this conversation. Well, likewise. It's such a pleasure and honor to be here. Thanks, George.