 Okay. All right, so let's start about what is LAC? What is the Linux audio conference for all the people that are here that haven't really done one? This is basically like a short rundown in a way at least the way we understood it. It's obviously a not-for-profit and non-stationary conference that is revolving about around all the things that are providing on Linux and The non-stationary aspect of it is kind of nice, but at the same time it gives really A lot of troubles to the people that are organizing it and we're gonna come to that later because if you have a non-stationary Approach then everyone will have to do things differently each time or they might have to do that differently depending on Who they work with? Well, it's also about paper presentations obviously because the LAC is kind of coming from that academic background and We have so many nice developers as we've seen yesterday it was Just super awesome to see all of you guys give talks about all the things that you do and That is what LAC is all about in a way at least half of it. I guess because Developers meeting users and developers meeting developers is well I guess the biggest part in a way and the music obviously, but still that is a very important aspect of it We have software presentations like yesterday That just show new features that show new approaches in ways of doing things We have workshops To further I don't know show people how to work with the software how to do things on Linux and Well, if you if you come from a Windows background or a macOS background you might find it kind of Well a multitude of things can can be done to do the same thing in a way So that might feel a little overwhelming for people That's why we also have tryouts and that's pretty cool as we've seen yesterday night that People just don't know now bring their toys bring their tools and jam together and well do the thing Well that is that is the front part of it obviously That's what you guys see when you come to an LAC, but what it really involves is well all the work that you have to do in Well Making this happen is finding a space or finding an institute to host you to give you the space give you well Even the funds if you're lucky We're gonna switch. Okay This might sound better. We'll see Microphones a bit hissy today Well, you definitely need to find the the partners a proper partners to do this if you if you don't Manage to find the proper partners then well you I don't know well do a lot of work on your own But you have to obviously decide on on the amount of things you want to do or you can do with that space that you have available and Well if in luck you might even find sponsors that are willing to to pay for certain amounts of it and It's definitely a big part of it We have Well this whole issue of reviewing the submissions and that's not only papers It's lectures its workshops and installations the live music and so on it has to be put into some form It has to be well kind of organized to make it run in certain spaces I'm gonna come back to that later concerning this space, which is a bit different because of our project And that we chose to do yet this year well, you have to get all the required hardware and Depending on if you have that stuff available in your own Institute that can be quite easy or it can be a real pain to get this kind of stuff and Well, most of you already know Like video equipment and so on if that's not available then then you really screwed in a way and have to do a lot of things to get this Well, and obviously if you want to do Well concerts then you have to find spaces for those if you cannot host them yourself Now we're switching back Now with fresh batteries that sounds way better cool and Obviously you have to do the well the fronting you have to do the the PR for for the whole thing and That cannot be underestimated because it's it's really a big Amount of work and that has to be done and has to be well It has to be done consistently in my opinion And that's one of the major setbacks that LEC is involved in in a way because of its non stationery approach. It really has this pitfall of well not having a consistent front to all the things which Yeah Can be quite bad and then you have to answer all the trillion emails for questions and things You know people will want to know what kind of stuff to have to bring What kind of mix it you have available and so on and so forth and it just never ends actually Well And in the end what? Oh, yeah, I see in the end you have to pay the bills you have to pay the rent the insurances and etc etc and Yeah, depending on if you have an institute behind you you might find that quite easy if you do that on your own or if you do it with a Kind of a group of volunteers that's not so easy actually It's it's really hard to get funds for stuff or think about how to get them afterwards That's Well, so we come to mini luck Welcome to the pain You have to switch it on not all pain Well last year When we went to LAC in Mainz that Albert so nicely did We were so enthusiastic about it. We were like, oh great. That's that's such a nice event. Wow Damn, that's really good. I mean I'm working at the TU of Berlin and I Remember oh in 2007 there was someone that was really doing a good job back then, right? I mean that can't be that easy, right? I mean but still if you have you know a company or a big University behind you you can do that you can you can easily manage to do that and Well, yeah, that's What we thought and so we tried to get the to report and Initially that was kind of oh, yeah, oh sure we can we would be into that I mean why not it's interesting we had that before and sure if you if you want to do most of the workload That's might be fine and But they had like this one condition. Well, I mean we cannot really host the the concerts Well, how do you how about you you get maybe in the the University of the arts aboard so we can Have them take care of the concert venues and so on and maybe Share the workload, which is a good idea actually. So, yeah, I got in touch with these guys, too and so it was like a long back and forth and Well Luckily for us. We also had a bunch of people that have been here yesterday Right and I and Daniel are part of it and it's well Linux Audio Berlin and this kind of happened because of the last LAC a bunch of people meeting from Berlin and just Thinking about oh, well, we could just do a meeting group here and talk about stuff and so well we discussed this topic too and Some people were quite quite really into it and we're like, oh, yeah, let's do that I mean if university is into it we can we can easily do this So, yeah Then we get in touch with the LAC team mailing list for Managing the whole thing and well, it's a shared mailing list of all the former organizers that basically share information or at least Talk about whatever they are working on at the moment and they discuss who's the next LAC basically and Back then it was kind of a back-and-forth between why I think Stanford and Berlin and London and Kind of everyone had Well play the postpone game in a way we had to all be oh, well I'm not quite sure yet and my Institute is not really, you know They're kind of up for it But I have to I have to re-ask them and we have to do some more meetings and blah blah blah And it just takes a long time if you're involved with an Institute. It's it's not like oh, yeah, sure. Here's a check They're more like yeah, okay We're gonna meet then we have to discuss and we have to find out who's gonna be involved and so on and so It really takes a long time to do that and so if you're involved with the university It's it's just taking a long time to do this and it's painful That's why we all had this kind of I think postponing going on on our sides everyone was like Well, I can maybe tell you in like two weeks and so on and so forth and well initially well, I wasn't really too worried about this so We we were all like oh great. I mean if to is kind of kind of bored and and and the initial Response from from UDK and the University of the Arts was really really positive. They were like all great We're definitely into it and So yeah, we were like, okay, cool. We can do this. Yeah, let's just just host is like share shared host this at Tewoo and UDK and Yeah, that's what we tried but well then the planning and failing or philosophy basically started and Well We had the technical university dropping out and they were like, oh, well, that might be too much work. Well Maybe the guys from UDK, they will kind of, you know, maybe work on it if you're lucky Then they just went back once out of the room without saying anything anymore. That was not too nice Well, this happens but this also led to you know Endless discussions about this topic and Well, this also led to some people in the user group being kind of monthly annoyed by the whole topic I guess and they're like, oh, this is again Is this meeting again about mini-luck or New York's audio conference? Can we skip this maybe or just talk about music maybe? Well, that's yeah, that's definitely a way to annoy people a lot if you want to do a conference. It's easy. So Yeah, we're deciding back and forth and right might share some information about the ETA I think it might be interesting to talk about this for a second. Well Yeah, we tried to cover costs for more area by getting to involve sponsors and Also tried to to get funding from cultural funds in the city both failed miserably and we also Reserved pre-reserved the the same area on the upper floor So double the space it could go bigger and then had to cancel that and people were really deep this disappointed and depressed Hmm. Well Then we got the the V operation crew back on board. They were kind of Hanging in between and we're asking us. What's what's happening? Are you going to do this or not? and Yeah, we we decided to scrap the sponsor model and just do it on our own just scrap all the costs and everything that might be Unfeasible and then got the rock on board back. So Oh, yeah, you're moving ahead. I think too We're sorry If I interrupt here, but basically before this all happened and we had this nice model thought out and we're like, oh, cool We can you know get the guys above and and and rent the rooms and so on well We obviously had to find sponsors for this and this was not as easy as we thought initially We were like, oh, well, we can do this I mean sure but then is full of you know Nice companies that are really interested in audio and stuff, but no one's really interested in linux audio. That's the problem They're all you know really focused on their products and that's basically For very few of them very few. That's very we made a list. I actually went through the whole music mess list of Exhibitioners and it's it's a nice list, but nope Nothing So yeah, this basically meant we were kind of deadlocking on finding sponsors versing versus announcing the thing because without sponsors You cannot really do this at least in the initial Well plan that we had of renting upstairs and additionally to see base And that was just not feasible to do that just on our own just like paying a couple thousand euros and be like, okay Yeah, sure. Let's do it and Well, never mind the sponsors. They're gonna come kind of hopefully so yeah, you have to have this kind of Well backup otherwise you're really screwed. So this yeah, let us to a lot of pain and As right already mentioned waiting for hop-shot cool too false. It's just one of those and they were just Well, they have these fixed deadlines and you submit stuff and then they make you wait for half a year or a year or whatever And then well, they just drop you without saying why actually and it's it's just like whatever Yeah, so we really learned the hard way that well universities might or might not be too interested in in Free software art for that matter and really depends on some Departments you can really get a board on this but others are like Yeah, sure might be interesting but and then the whole iteration of things that you have to do well starts and that's a Lot of companies are using Linux. It's not that they ignore it, but mostly they use it in their web departments It's a nice web server for them So yeah, that led us to basically wanting to cancel the luck and just be done with it because it was so painful it just Took us already like like this this one plan. Oh, yeah, sure. Let's do it with the universities and then we moved to further the sponsoring Well idea and that also kind of failed and miserably failed because we're not you know, we're not sponsoring people We're not really PR people, but that's the kind of people you need basically for this Well way of doing the conference if you're not doing it with the university because then you have people for doing stuff Or you can at least get funds for it. Luckily sometimes not always obviously, but Yeah, well, we're all for like Cancel this But riot where riot was so optimistic right was awesome right was like well We still have see basically, you know, let's just do it here. I don't care Let's just make it, you know make it smaller and Just skip all that stuff that is a lot of work, you know all the all the well submission and so on that That's just you know Give the community basically the the possibility of of doing this on their own Let them just decide what they want to do and let them decide When and where they want to do it well apart from one point that also motivated me for this approach was that Seabase already managed quite some conferences on board. We also rented the other Apartments or rooms so you could use and then you can actually host up to 300 people easily and Yeah, I thought let's do it here. We can do it for free more or less or with the seabase as donation Because the space lens itself to these events. I thought what the heck We can't do certain things anymore because the time was already quite progressed, but the basics of a conference Yeah, we can do that. I was optimistic absolutely and I think we are here. It's a it went it went well so Right, yeah, but I mean still they're like certain standards kind of to adhere to if you're thinking about Linux audio conference there. There's I don't know that there's like the The things that you want to have the things that you kind of that people expect when they come here they they they want to Kind of you know, see see see you guys and they they want to I don't know they want to Have the the tryouts of stuff. They want to jam. They want to just hang out and I think in a way It is much more a relaxed happening as it is right other this year than than it was last year or Possibly even the year before because it's it's very small. It's just very loose some in some sense and Well, I hope we still manage to adhere to some of the standards that there are Expectations yeah, yeah, that's I mean the standards is more with a winking eye in a way. It's Still Open standards Exactly. Yes So we went ahead and we we just made this wiki to basically host all the information that we have that we need to do to to run this thing and And we went on and announced it for C base We got the Vock guys back aboard that was pretty cool that they were like, oh, well, that's okay I mean, yeah, sure. We're there. We're both in any ways, you know, and they're just a marine star self which is very close and So we are very very very lucky to have these guys aboard and we were very lucky to have them so close so it was dirt cheap to well get them here for us and that's Logistically speaking what logistically speaking exactly exactly Yeah, because I mean the Vock the VOC the the video operation crew is basically center actually sorry is Is also just a bunch of volunteers that really like what they're doing They they just enjoy using free software to make conferences awesome And I think that's wow. That's really really amazing. I Yeah, I cannot thank you guys enough. It's really it's It's pretty awesome So, yeah, a lot of things had to be done and as I as I said, you know The whole Linux audio conference planning it led to you know people being annoyed and then we we kind of you know We just started to really piss people off with this topic in a way I think some some of them were like, oh Jesus that again, you know and Well, some of them also didn't have the time they they were just busy with work and they Shifted from one workspace to another or whatever and you know a lot of things came together to switch off my computer what's happened I Was mine, okay, doesn't say that it's off at the moment No, shouldn't be a screensaver. Oh Oh, okay Strange I don't know why that happened Shouldn't be a separate screensaver on it. Um anyways So I don't know it led to just do a bunch of manual work as well to well Be able to announce this because we had some false information about the the conference and and so on that We're still on on that website and then we had to Well deal with all these kind of things that that also I don't know that that we're not really streamlined We had a lot of really open Things we had to work out and that's Keeps getting a bit annoying this blinking, right? Anyways Well, you might want to say something about this I guess we did so much work there During the preparations we had to restore the sound lab to a working condition again. It was attacked by mold and intense cleaning operation took place and I think we've done already quite well You might judge that better than me. You've seen more of these rooms I suppose but it works so far and that was keeping us quite busy for example, then Obviously we had lots of meetings and trillions of mails to respond to and created our own Mail hazard by by yeah, starting this you just write one mail and it exponentially it grows yeah, the Where to think about what to get here actually and some of it in just in respect Respective doesn't really make sense possibly to Drag a full multi-channel set up in here because the rooms are not really made for this kind of thing or whatever And I mean it's it's obviously not necessarily a space that you can have a proper a channel Music thing going or something like that. You would need external things for that but Again, I'm quite sure I'm quite lucky that we have Resources of the electronic studio and the the VOC to do this and Well, we were setting up this this Organization schedule and I think it's it's kind of different from whatever happened before in a way because there it was Internally managed. It's like a you you manage one thing that basically is is the front for this Conference in a way you are the organizer you organize Well, everything the whole premises and you have people working on it like Hopefully working on it or you get some people from the community, but usually it didn't feel like The the Process was that open yet So we tried this and I think it kind of worked out quite well in a way and to just set up a wiki and tell people Do you just do your thing? You know, please just one of these collaboration tools We started using was a github as issue tracker Yeah, that was manage all the tickets for whatever happened We just added milestones for the different two week phase before for example We have a teardown milestone which will start somewhere in the evening and that worked quite well And it's also a nice thing because everybody can check in there and just see the status and see what's what's up for doing and that helped a lot and Everyone externally can also write some issues which it's very public. Yeah, that's really good That's so good to have in the way because there there's so many things that we couldn't think about that other people then finally thought about and we're like Thanks, I The big advantage of doing this on github was that we didn't need to set up anything on all and That you could with the ticket system you can actually Yeah, reduce the trillions of emails for example, you just Have it entered and there's no need for anyone to to retype this and copy it and send it to someone else That saves a lot of hassle. That's true because it's publicly available, but Again, yeah, if it's not a closed mailing list or anything you might want to be careful what you write there Yeah, we obviously couldn't do financial stuff on there. It's just true Well then again setting this thing up setting up the things that you see here that wasn't so easy I mean parts of it is already available properly installed within seabase, but As we were using a Vicky not what the VOC usually uses We were well Facing some issues and right might really want to expand on that I guess maybe actually I didn't expect that That was quite in my face We we use this this media wiki as a quick solution to get all the conference content together Get the users to describe their pages and then have this in a very Self-creating fashion. We wanted to to make the community create this itself and the wiki is usually a very good thing for that but Well, yeah when it comes to the interfaces the traditional CCC Congress's events use that's not a really good choice and they have Rather good conference software in effect, which actually takes the work off you just Click a button and outfalls everything you need for the streaming for the far plan and usually that's nice but Okay, things are improving as software does always so you usually need to adapt a little bit every year so to Keep the upgrades But when you're not using one of the core components of this one You're in trouble But I managed to write a very hacky schedule exporter from our wiki schedule, so Well, that was Middle of last week or something I started Then had to split this into two parts because different parts of the software needed another format Well, you see you've seen it working, but Not again next time, but it was a kitchen. Yeah. Yeah, that's true We should use the the frappe that we initially wanted to use That would have been a good idea. I guess but still that wouldn't have given us all the nice opportunities of setting up Well the the information or letting letting other people add information themselves that nicely I guess You don't kill the wiki and replace it. No, I would do this concurrently use both Yeah, yeah, but take out the the actual event content lectures from the wiki and put them on into the frappe Oh, by the way, that's a note on this on these slides. There are some Links hidden in most of the sentences, especially once we progress further into the next topics Well, I mean after after you, you know kind of fumbling these things together because usually the whole setup that the VOC uses works Very nicely actually and they they have a very well-working system As it always is, you know, if you use only one or two components and Not the whole package it might not work as expected, but we were getting around this and Finally Getting these guys aboard and just had to pay the insurance for all the technical stuff that we have here now Well, obviously we have to take care of the transportation of that But that's just minor costs basically Anyways, that's just a short rundown basically doing the stuff that we did or that we That there's plenty of more stories. I guess if you if you really want to Get a full share of the pain then come and ask us later on I guess We're not here, you know to to bitch about or to to basically Wine About how we could have improved we could have improved in many ways and everyone could have improved and so on and so forth but I guess Working on it it led to some Realizations that I I'm very sure many many of you organizers already had In the past few years. Oh, I could have done this better I could have you know, maybe made this easier and so on and so forth, but most of these things they Unfortunately, they get lost. They get lost because we have this This setup that is non-stationary. We are not in one place We're all over the globe basically and that is the tricky part basically we try or we want to maybe help all of us improve this and Well, these are our suggestions. So we have or I just recently and I was really I was shocked basically that it was not taken yet have set up a github group for Linux Audio and well We're kind of Well, we thought why not well redesign the whole thing that we have that's why I'm Called this put on some makeup Because obviously we have these these these websites, but they they you know, they they they change from year to year and I think back in the day it was a true power version that got spam hacked or whatever and then Now we just have an HTML version of the whole thing and in a way, you know, there's lots of possible improvements And we'd like to kind of open source this we'd like to work on this together and that'd be Really cool because then it's not up to oh next guy is gonna fix this, you know Some few that's some future organizer do this. You know, I'm out of here. La la la It's it's all of us basically involved and that's maybe a nice thing. That's why I'm proposing to Well collectively work on this on github and I I already set up some repositories for the Linux audio and the luck that Linux audio we are also going to push the software and other stuff We created for this event in there. So future organizers can reuse this and We'll also probably set up a wiki with in there with all the documentation we we aggregated and stuff and ideas we have We invite you to join this and and edit with us Thanks guys We hope you enjoyed this because What what I what I found most easy at least in the past few One and a half years. I think was using Pelican for for developing my own website for Well using it to to update the the Linux audio to Berlin website And I found it so nice that I was thinking maybe we could just use that for that too because it's basically plain text You can write in restructured text you can write a markdown and just have Pelican generate plain text Just plain HTML from it. It's super fast. So as for most of the information that is on those websites It's it's just informational stuff that rarely changes so we can just Have plain text HTML that's really it's basically the best thing to do most likely and the fastest and We should also I agree make it Secure because we had some hiccups I think back in the days and they're always hiccups but that also I don't know it it comes with with the process I guess of of giving the key to the next guy and Would like to I don't know get in touch with you and and try to make this this work more fluently in a way and one idea would be to For instance said set up let's encrypt for these websites that be a very good choice. I think Right already said I said it before We'd like to modularize the the wiki the mail and the the websites of our former Laces to well some of them they are already in that shape in a way Some are still externally hosted some are even gone by now I think that's a bit unfortunate and we should maybe keep an eye on that because That stuff doesn't get better in a way and if we have still have an HTML version of it, and if it's just a W get just a downloaded Version of the website. That's already pretty nice actually. I mean to have For future documentation just oh, oh, yeah, we had these guys as keynotes. Oh, that's what's interesting and I just yeah, I found it a bit Sad that some of the information got lost in a way like the I think the website of the Dtu run Linux audio conference. I think that was that was gone one of one of them was definitely gone and I was like, oh And I can try and find it there But I mean yeah, these things change a lot. So as we have these servers available or we have one server available Which is really nice that we have this well this hardware available for for doing the Linux audio conference, then we should I think use it to Kind of stash the things there because Well taking care of the history of it is is as important as working on the future of it and Otherwise, yeah, things get lost. Oh Yeah, please please, let's use the frappe. I think it might really save us a lot of pain I mean using the wiki was nice as right already intended, but it's it's if we're led to so many issues that we had we had Yeah, to write our own scripts to you know get these informations out and then this I Wouldn't really focus on that problem. That's that's really not a big deal The big deal is that that's what you're saying now. Yeah, because you've done. I've wrote the software other objects The thing why frappe is really useful for this style of Conferences that it's it's implementing all these call for papers algorithms you'd like get user to to edit the stuff and clean up and users can can modify their profiles and and edit everything and Later on you as an organizer get a nice front end to organize all the content It's built for huge conferences like the CCC Congress with several thousand visitors and Hundreds of hours of content. So it's pretty efficient at doing that and so it supports the organizers very very well and Once you're done with your content organization You just really literally hit export and you have the stuff done for the for the the supporting systems Yeah, that's very very nice to have actually because From FR AB Yeah, yeah, for example, it also supports the the English system, which is Crowdsourced way of organizing your volunteers Everybody can pre-register shifts on for for such a conference and it's it's tightly integrated with the content schedule So you can also assign video angels room angels and it's it's completely managed You don't have to to set up lengthy stuff just enter conference name and there you go almost By the way, Robin just said on ISE that the two website was deleted, but it was mirrored by By the LSE so that that's good good for us still there, but nonetheless, I think one of them was gone I'm not sure which it was maybe it was the two and it's it's back now and because it's it's mirrored It's the web. That's good. Oh Yeah, most likely it will be but probably without the media content if there was any Yeah Yeah, nonetheless, there this room for improvement as it's always and there's not like a blame thing It's just a suggestion basically from outside. So just do not take it the wrong way. I hope you don't with because Well building this kind of thing and building it collectively is a nice thing, but obviously you need a sort of store kind of for all this information and well, it's The Vicky that we used for for doing the mini lock was was nice for for working on it But also I think a Vicky would be really cool to have to store the information on how We actually did this and who is involved and Who is to be written to and what to use and so on and so forth and just document the process basically For not not for the conference itself, but for the conferences for the managers Exactly not not for just one conference, but kind of find the similarities finding finding the things that we Maybe you should really think to use github to build a kind of a checklist checklist Vicky Markdown maybe a markdown. Yeah check in into github Mm-hmm, and Yeah, you can collect what you have to do all the points maybe two styles a mini lock style Yes great luck style and all all things just all what you have to think and then link to detail info Hmm. Yeah, that's that's also a good way of doing that. That's true Yeah, we could actually do template repositories where everything is already set in place You just fork this and you go Well, yeah, as I said just Try and document the hard facts basically that everyone will have to do that everyone I don't know that everyone kind of has a an easier job of doing this because it's it's not as if we have this super highly optimized team of Volunteers or people that are like, oh, yeah, sure. I completely know what I have to do And it's just they just run through the list, but it's it's basically it's nearly everyone for themselves each year and that's If you haven't done it before it's it's a lot of work It's a lot of learning and if you can read up on many many things Then then it might get way way easier for us Oh, yeah, I jumped ahead a bit and told you about this before but yeah, this is quite nice to have too I mean, it's basically easy enough on on the PR for for all of us Because there there are many mailing lists and many websites and so on that that kind of emerge or have been around for a long time that you can Get your information from or to and that should be kind of involved in in the process and We forgot about some of them You forgot about some of them and it happens But would be nice to just kind of have a streamlined list of it and be like, oh, yeah, sure I'm just gonna write to all of these and do it the same way each year and that's it and that would yeah, I don't know what would Make things easier depending on the country you in but still having information about Linux audio conference in some country is better than having none so Yep That would kind of streamline the whole thing a bit and make things easier for us, I guess I hope so What's all about finding new friends, I guess We Yeah, would definitely suggest to all future Linux audio conference Organizers to get in touch with the video operation Center of the CCC. They do awesome do an awesome job They are actually thinking about in the future just shipping their equipment With a with an introductory to on how to set this up just to where to connect stuff and you know like they're just a an IKEA Thing an IKEA table or whatever and just get your box filled with stuff And you just set it up and they log in remotely and do the rest that be that be really cool and what Most likely mean also to be dirt cheap compared to many other things and many other solutions If you have to rent all of this stuff yourself, and then you have to you know cut and blah blah blah It just takes a lot of time Thing is they are also very busy. They are cruising around Europe from conference to conference and Actually can keep up with the demand Yeah, that's one of the issues. I guess that's why they're thinking about it Work from home is much nice in there Oh Yeah, we Yes That's why I want to ask whether you how much did you pay for that service? Can you disclose that? well, the VOC is is a bunch of volunteers and They're kind of so friendly to be here because they like to be here And we paid for the insurance for the equipment. Oh, that's great as they are in Berlin I mean if you're not in Berlin, then you have to pay them the flight cost or whatever the train costs and so on but We are very happy to basically have them here Most likely for free. I mean Raven for instance. He's he's not from Berlin Obviously, he's from from Switzerland and came here because of the Linux audio conference in a way and also because he is part of the video operation center, but it's Well, I don't know you want to comment on that maybe Maybe on costs it's it's usually something by the lines of conference pays all the cost of ox has insurance Transport Some conferences with budget pay for like accommodation or Travel from for the people who come from far away or come only for only because of the walk Some don't It's usually usually usually something like that And you need to provide angels to mix usually that's that's not a part. Yeah, it's very important. Thank you Thanks again, I Don't think any any of the Linux talk if our people are here actually I invited them separately We got in touch with them way way too late, but they've been doing apparently a very good job on the system decon last year and That also took place here in Berlin at beta house And they might be a very valuable option for at least German organizers to spread the word to ease up on some of the Well PR issues one might have It might be an interesting or very very valuable partner for the future. So if you're Up for that. There's a link and Well, I cannot understate this enough Hacker spaces. Yes, please more of that although Seabass is only a space station with a hacker space and this actually really is a good space for hosting things I think and Hacker spaces in general have a lot of technical Knowledge and things to chair it to share it depends on obviously on the hacker space Not all of them speak as Seabass. It is uncommon for a hacker space not to have Linux audio users or developers kind of and and some of them also have large areas that you can actually do a large conference to Well, we're actually reaching the end of things, but you can ask us stuff right to us and I think we might have some Questions from the ISC, let's have a look Streaming Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, oh I see. Yeah Then then it's not only it's not only not only a plain issue of well Making that available but also pointing to it. That's different also one thing would be nice to you know Do a package for each new organizer just to be like oh here the keys by the way Here's you know get get me your public SSH key and here's here's the key to the kingdom go for it Here here's all the how-tos go for it that be really helpful for each and every one of us, I guess That is not really a blame or anything so don't don't be offended, please Dave a question. Yes. I very much like how you involved the CCC and the video operation center for this year This will certainly have uploaded it quite a bit Yeah, if you wanted to do this in say other towns in Germany like in Karlsruhe way have been two years ago the local Institute might have their own requirements on having their own record engineer for doing the cuts for doing the recording and adding their own logos Institutes logo for own archival maybe even their own media formats Would you be free to choose that if you go with the VOC or do they impose on you what? Codex to use what archival system to use and so I think Raven might be a better person to comment on this wait a second because he knows these kind of Well things um to be I see there's a lot of of self-built stuff like for example the video mixer you see in The video makes a you see in in the seminar. That's that's self-written Basically because there was no software mixer that could do HD the way we wanted it and well If You if you want to use your own format or anything that isn't we usually Publish mp4s and webms In 19,000 HH to six four If you want anything else you'd have to really multi-motivate the people Behind behind the who will the whole set up to change it. I don't think that's gonna happen but Yeah you could remix the stuff obviously, but You might want to do that on your own then and just put a logo on top. I'm not sure about logos I mean that that should be too We do have we do do that under on the conga cements. There's all that in the streams There's usually a lot about the top. I mean that's in the end. It's just ffm pack a lot of ffm pack So you can do just about everything Okay, that answered my question, okay Do you have questions from the ISE maybe I don't think so either but well, we're here all day basically Just to write to us Robin is already asking for maybe Starting the website Well, can we start the work already? I'm gonna I'm gonna invite you guys to to that nukes audio group on github and then we can maybe think about this Today that might be a good idea actually to get the ball rolling because Yeah, usually that's all that it takes, you know, just the initial bump and then You're going are there any further questions or maybe or suggestions or? Oh Raven man, maybe just as a side note She does it interest that there is a frost con talk Where where people people from the rock explain how the whole chain works? So if you're interested in that that may that may be something to look up No, that's a quarter talk on frost con media CCD and You'll find it if you two thousand fifteen I guess Fifteen fourteen fifteen or fourteen we're gonna put it up in the wiki and It's not that long ago, but it was before Congress I think so 2015 Okay, good to know Another question. I just wanted to say I want to throw in Freiburg for the next luck So maybe it's interesting for you Maybe it's interesting for you to do it there or maybe I could help Sure, but by the way, you're standing in front of the camera. I'm sorry, but to mention this Okay, that was all that was all Yeah, yeah, cool. That's great Well, I hope you still enjoyed the whole thing because I mean for us It was an interesting experience doing this and definitely a different one from from yours. I I agree and Nonetheless, yeah, it would be it would be a very thing interesting thing to to share this Okay. How's this Daniel? So got a question? No, no, no question is more more like about about organizing this and it's okay. We would well to Okay, okay, let's try to not get a feedback loop No, it was because we used like two organizers that we used get up and get to get up issues to try to like track everything that you need to done and The other evening I talked to will who asked will you since it's an it's a public repo with the issue tracking? And I'll but will you will you keep this up or such like it's like valuable knowledge to? Well to share or just to see how Well, what kind of issues you run into as an organizer and okay, I hadn't I actually I hadn't given the Haven't given it a given it a second thought like like deleting the repo whatever like that would be secondary, but it well It makes perfect sense to just okay first of all keep the issue tracking for organizing Just keeping that open so that was transparent What's happening anyone can comment and come with ideas and also for future organizers. Just see like Okay, when organizing this oh They have a ticket for like the coffee machine is on a fire or whatever like these tiny details that you might not think of like since in the topic is well Linux audio then People might think of like okay. We need this with the machine set up and we need to audio set up but then well all the tiny details for a conference space and like the things that take time and Yeah, just Well has to be done in the end so Keeping an open Ticket tracking format and then sharing that it's another thing is a very good idea and well That that was my comment Thanks Anyone else or the way sweet you can also Finish oh We're really early. That's good for us. I guess Okay, okay. Yeah, I hope it doesn't end in the fist fight Anyways All right, then well have fun with the rest of the topics today and see you guys Thanks. Oh There's still Albert I think that we should do this while still on the stream so that we can discuss because Laurent potier from From the GMU is also in ISC and he wanted to propose as well, but he can't be here unfortunately and Jan is also leaving today So he can't be here either so Laurent potier is a professor there for computer music Department at the center in the disciplinary attitude and the research expression contemporary I hope I said that right and So they also have the facilities there of course and could do conferent both the conferences and Concerts and they would very much like to do it in 2017 either and Also and So if I got that right we have another proposal who was that from Freiburg Is that the computer music group there or the? So are you from the institution there? Okay, so you you can't actually commit to that so Okay, so this if anyone wants to ask Something about Laurent potier's Proposal Edgar isn't here this morning. I think Yeah, I thought already thought so because he needs to prepare his stuff, so I'm not sure whether I can That's Sunday, yeah, it's it's very close to Leon so you can Leon has an international airport So it can be reached very easily and then you have about a 40 minutes right With the fast train to Sunday 10, so that's very convenient as well And as I said they have a studio there. They have facilities. They have a large concert hall They have lecture halls. Of course, it's a it's a big university and so Well, that's about all I can say right now because I've been there myself Last autumn as a as a lecturer And it was very nice. They have very good students there. It's a master program there teaching computer music and composition and So the context is right there more on the max side of things right now but they use they use a lot of open source and they're interested to get more into it and For instance, they do a lot of stuff with PD as well And so they're very much interested in open source and so they would very much like to host the conference So that's about all I can say but maybe Laurent can comment If I forgot anything important Do you have a preferred date that you can Tell us about right now. So when the locations would be available It's it's more a thing of the having the all the lecture halls and stuff like that available Usually that's easier in the semester holidays and Yeah, I forgot the most important thing. Okay, I'm blind on this eye because I always look at Fausta So of course Fausta is also a big thing in at the JMU and So the date He says it can be in May. So It seems like a good good day good date for us for all of us. I hope Yeah It's gonna be warmer Alright It sounds like a really good proposal, I know for a fact from Edgar Bertolt, but he's busy in the seminar room at the moment That he also was thinking about at least getting involved with his Institute to Work on a workout plan, but I guess he's gonna come back to us or all of us soon about that He might have to watch this talk basically later to know what we were talking about, but yeah Nonetheless, we're gonna keep him in the loop and But that's yeah, that's LSU Louisiana State University So we would have to hop the big Ocean The pond yeah, yeah, too Okay Yeah So not so much of a question rather a recommendation I'm yeah again I very much value how you know try to structure this maybe even redesign You know this audio org put things into github repose and then divide and come up with a standardized conferencing system all of this is wonderful and Definitely go work on this only my personal experience from the last few years was that the few weeks or months before the conference I'm highly focused and exactly on the day after coming back home My motivation drops very far down So after the four cars we were confronted in 2003 to six I was trying a few times hardly to write down all of what I learned the lessons learned about Remember to put down water for the speakers and think about the laser pointer and think about this all of this I typed down in a local text file and it has a bit rot on my heart is gone after that so and was ever published So my only recommendation is whatever motivation you still have left today Use it immediately because in three days from now it will be dead, but thanks for your work so far. This is very welcome Thank you. Thank you. We're gonna try and just already push like a Standard pelican Project into both of these repositories In other words, there's no barbecue for the after conference barbecue until everyone has dumped his brain into the tracker Oh, so we're not doing the barbecue. No, no, we're doing one, but That's the rules. Okay Well, we do have standards Well, oh, there it is Good, I don't know if we are we still keeping the lab channel open It seems it's end of April or May beginning of May something like that All right Yeah, I can say I can also say something about the academic stuff. So I know The kind of informal meeting we we did this year is a very very important part of luck And it's also quite unique feature of luck, which we don't want to lose the academic stuff on the other hand side The the paper session with referee papers is important for the researchers We want to have on board which usually they usually have to show something to their boss so that he pays for the traveling and They also need their publications when they want to do their PhD So that's a reason to keep that as well. The other Elements are very important. Also We might have lost some of the musicians this year because there wasn't a call from music And that's something we might want to take up in the future again. So It's It has all these different elements, but that doesn't mean that Everything has to be there every time so like we saw this time It was the developer meeting and it was nice very nice and it still is so but I wanted to still Because you said oh, yes the conference management. That's that's easily done Probably I must misunderstood you but that's an important part if you have if you have the refereeing process It because it becomes unmanageable without a conference management system And maybe we should I think what it was the one open conf we were using Maybe that's a bit old school by now Maybe we should look at something else But that's something to discuss for the next like I'm pretty sure that Laurent will will also do Academic session there or main track and so that we will be facing this problem again. So Okay just an additional comment to What you're saying that? That okay with the call to music musicians and okay that we that we missed that part And that's like I guess that's the sort of the point that they've just been talking about that well having Well written down collective knowledge on like this is the things that you shouldn't forget these are the things you should do inside We got caught up with like Lots of details on just trying to get something together and then like lots of things like Yeah, like oh do we because we were talking about like if it would be like okay Can we should we do this a call to papers and stuff but we I don't I can't even remember if we ever said Discussed having a call to musicians or so There's like okay that that has complete fail on our part in that sense, but like having a checklist saying these are the things you should consider and There's always so much to do if you organize a luck It's a real labor of love because you can't be in it for the money as well because we don't have any conference fees and so There's lots of stuff to do and it always depends on how much manpower you have and then can Bring in and so some things just fell by the way side But I think I gave you some kind of checklist That was that was actually also Well Delegated to all the people involved and so on but still I mean then easily people have you know They're on opinion about some things and they're like, oh, okay. Yeah, we need this and that and then Suddenly the focus shifts and so on but it's not intended as criticism Reminder with that the information happens actually there It's not as well organized probably as it could be but Frank already explained why I know I dropped that after organizing that and I wouldn't Wanted to touch that week he for several weeks anyway, so that's always the problem But I agree with it would be nice to have this in a very well structured way and I also agree with the point of having a package for At least for the newcomers to lack organization that would be very useful The way we currently do this is communicate by email by the mailing lucky mailing list and Exchange this information on demand But if you do it for the first time you don't even know what to ask for so that's the problem Well, you also mentioned one very important thing that we That we thought was valuable to us as well To keep this an open conference to keep this in space a space that is is for free for people and for people to attend to and Because I mean as I think I wrote it down in the Viki already that that People coming here are actually doing this already On their own they're not getting paid. They're not getting paid to to well attend to this kind of conference And they're not getting paid for any of the talks or whatever and they work on free software, which is awesome And well share share that knowledge and I I really like this process this open process And I hope we can keep it this way because well the new donation based system is much nicer than a Well a fee based system that we have to adhere to or something and oh That actually brings us to the donations if you still have some money left, please donate donate money We still have to cover some of the costs there we I think we're like a One-third there I guess something like that, so that's it's already Okay, oh yes a question Again just another statement So again the idea of having this this startup package for new organizers is a good thing But just talk to market about this So it's kind of become a habit that in year X the organizer after having done his job You would try to pass on to X plus ones organizer and just part of the Sun secret top with being to the ear or the secrets of the luck are this is of course But I think okay, this is a bit of sarcasm, but Sometimes it's perhaps not so bad if not everything is written down because if you know the effort beforehand You might never have said yes, we do it so I agree, but Yeah, yeah, I agree a bit on that It's it's funny someone here about he he has the same Idea about running the the workshop space downstairs, and he's like well, I'm not gonna document this thing You know let people Hack their hand off without with a table, so I don't care, you know at least they will learn something about it they have to you know they they have to be scared of that tool to actually not use it and This this kind of Mindset, I think it is kind of valuable, but at the same time It's also good to really know what you're getting into up front because otherwise you might be whoa, okay I didn't see that coming and it might be nice to just you know have a checklist and do okay Well music yeah, I mean life music would be nice, but we cannot really do it and then you can actually cross check all of these Well possible People or possible institutes and so on and be like oh they can do music they have well the full conferencing thing with lectures and and talks and paper presentations and these guys can only do a Hack a workshop or whatever and that'd be nice to also you know have the possibility to be like oh cool Maybe we can even do many of them, but that'd be crazy Can I comment on that? I think the point Frank was trying to make is that you're not on your own you're exactly Yeah, and you have the mailing list and a lot of people No, thanks. Oh Yeah, I remember last year. Yeah, yeah Exactly, yeah, yeah And even then still I think I know one or the other former luck organizer in this room who has easily said Yeah, I think we can do it and a few months later then. Ah, yes, we'll do it and later on never again So Stefan this is about your for is very kind, but be sure you know the Requirements or standards so it's more what can you think no town would be found so I would try it so This is what I can offer. I can't offer to say. Yeah, I'm gonna do it Be aware of the kind of pain you're getting into yeah for sure and I would try to Start to ask different people now for maybe it's in three or four year interesting So it's not another thing that must be happened next year. So I think Freiburg would be a good town So I'm I'm gonna force it a little bit. This is all what I wanted to say. Thank you Yeah, I know that on Finland I was there for a while and he's also into Linux, but he's in Frankfurt now So he but you still have the the computer music there group there at Freiburg Do you need more me my microphones we can get you this one too I Got a few people known so but I have to Restart it again. So and look for the people So I Thought we had the discussion starting I can pass on the microphone And any any other comments any other volunteers for coming years Mark you surely want to do another like again It's always next year Just checking while we're here together and maybe any of you have a spontaneous comment on what is Still totally wrong about luck. So as usual we have no steering committee We have no written-down standards. We're just somehow evolving from year to year or for the past 14 years and things have become Tested and tried or maybe thrown away and then restarted again. If anyone knows of something he has never seen like why are you not doing Linux audio gaming why you're not involving video more or whatever. So if you have comments on this This would be the right moment maybe to share your ideas and you are there Raise your hand Otherwise we just go on So yeah, just from the open AV point of view I'm hoping to integrate some more video software and things like that. So I'd like My interest is live performance. The software I work on is mostly for live performance So like I hope at some point to be able to show at the lack of video software or video things Which would be part of more performance technology on Linux as a platform So not Linux audio specifically just to audio but also integrating a range of other things But from my experience that's been like the attitude has been quite open to that anyway And there's been no no opposition to look you're doing music Linux audio with other things that and that that's then an issue So yeah, just I do feel like okay There are actually options already for integrating video or integrating other types of media with like perhaps with the not being exclusively just some Other project that has no real relation to Linux audio like if it's it's obviously going to be something that needs to integrate with the rest of The Linux audio community But I think the the community is actually in quite a nice place in that sense in my opinion Yes, and as a matter of fact, we've been saying that for a couple of years that it's not only exclusively about Linux anymore It's about open source and Linux and of course they are still Focus on on Linux, but that's not absolutely necessary and well, if it's about media if it's about music and Using open source software for that it has a home here, so One small point I'd make on that is a matter of not losing identity It's been known as the Linux audio conference for a long time Don't change the name even if it includes other things. No, but I know I think it was last year that Suggested was actually made. I think that was there was a Richard Stallman Let's have this Libra Libra music thing or whatever. Yeah, yeah We could but no I Also, yeah, I agree don't don't change the name. It's Oh, no, no, no, don't don't don't start the gender topic here Don't don't don't don't Not maybe for later Maybe the One of this one, maybe the batteries empty Okay, about the name change We we had a few attempts to to make it more audio and video centric. I know that in 2005 or so I believe the M player development team at that time approached us on Linux tag. I Believe or 2003 even and asked whether I can have a sub conference built into the Linux audio developers meeting at that time I think We offered yeah, perhaps we can do it But in the end they never talked back to us we have some kind of the Lumiera team having their private internal meeting inside it Secretly but not showing up publicly yet. Maybe there's some they do Opening to video is partially happening already. I think for the last few years be it just someone doing visuals or being We had this VJ who was live VJing in Karlsruhe from Italy to Karlsruhe That was a cool event in 2006. I think Still I very much like this acronym which has formed over the last seven years luck is just so Short and snappy so I'd like to keep the name even though we would be opening up more to video whatever that could be Yeah, I agree Anyone else the constantly hissing microphones, but yeah, I don't know we we still have A lot of time to discuss today if you guys aren't leaving too too early I don't know and and also we will publish the issue tracker so discussion can happen afterwards. Oh, that's true So otherwise, we're gonna call it quits for at least this talk and have the next one set up And all right, that's about it. Thank you guys. Thank you