 Good afternoon. I call to order this hearing of the Intelligence and Special Operations Subcommittee on U.S. Special Operations Forces and Command Challenges and Resource Priorities for Fiscal Year 2025. I would like to first welcome our witnesses, Assistant Secretary Christopher Mayer and General Brian Fenton, and all of our subcommittee members to this crucial hearing on the operational and fiscal challenges facing our Special Operations community. I look forward to working with everyone in this room on these important issues and I'm confident we will discuss them at length throughout this year. Our objective today is to thoroughly examine the alignment of our Special Operations Forces and U.S. SOCOM with the National Defense Strategy. This includes examining the challenges they face, the resources required to surmount these challenges, and their strategic role in the context of great power competition. As the U.S. attempts to shift its focus away from the threats in the Middle East, we are quickly learning that the threats in the Middle East have not shifted their focus away from us. Counterterrorism, addressing violent extremist organizations, and proxy threats are not missions we can wish away, and as our footprint in the Middle East grows increasingly smaller, we will continually rely on our elite Special Operations community to suppress these threats as we attempt to shift our primary focus to the challenges of great power competition. This is not to say that our Special Operations community is not engaged in great power competition, quite the opposite. There was a false notion floating around that the Special Operations community had their time in the sun and enjoyed a bountiful resourcing, but now it is time for them to take a back seat. This could not be more incorrect. Since 2001, Special Operations may have doubled in size, and they may have doubled in resourcing, but they have quadrupled in requirements. They are busier today than ever. They are asked to do more today than ever. As such, I am dismayed that US SOCOM is again funded at a flat level. When it comes to bang for your buck, there is perhaps nothing as effective as the dollars we spend on our Special Operations community. At least at less than 2 percent of the Department of Defense's budget and roughly 3 percent of its manpower, US SOCOM punches far above its weight. In a time of shaping and information operations, hybrid competition, partner training, and gray zone conflict, the Department should be looking to resource US SOCOM's return on investment propositions to the greatest extent possible. Spending each dollar more effectively than each Chinese one is how we win great power competition, and that is what our Special Operations community can provide. And with that, I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on the priorities for US Special Operations ahead of Congress work on the FY25 budget and NDAA. I would like to welcome our witnesses here today. The Honorable Christopher Mayer serves as the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflict, sometimes known as SOLIC, and General Brian Fenton, who currently serves as the 13th commander of US Special Operations Command. In the interest of time, I ask the witnesses to keep their opening remarks to five minutes or less so that we have sufficient time for questions and answers. With that, let me thank our witnesses for appearing before us. And today, I recognize a ranking member, Slotkin, for any opening remarks she may have. Thanks, Representative Bergman, Mr. Chairman. I think this is the second time, maybe in history, that two Michiganders have chaired a Haas hearing last year. We did the same thing. I think we opened the hearing last year by saying the current global security environment is dynamic. I think it's fair to say that was an understatement. Obviously, we had the attack on October 7th and the ensuing conflict and humanitarian crisis. We've seen what Iran and Iran's proxies have done across the region. We're realizing the real-time consequences of the actions of those malign actors. Not just the threat in the Middle East, but globally with international shipping traffic. In Russia, I mean, in Europe, we still have the Russia's illegal and unjust war in Ukraine, entering its third year, and obviously the Indo-Pacific and beyond. Chinese Communist Party increasingly using coercive actions that run counter to the international global order. We know that this has your full attention, this whole spread of conflicts. And for over 20 years, we've asked the Special Forces community to focus on counterterrorism and countering violent extremism in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and whatnot. So I think as a former CIA officer, I have better part of my 20s and 30s working alongside the Special Forces community, both here and in Iraq, and know firsthand the importance of your work. But we want to understand if you have the resources that you need in this very sort of dynamically changing world. Representative Bergman talked about great power competition. How is the Special Forces community postured to support this effort? What does that look like? Do you have the right training, the right manning, equipping international support, funding, professional military education? Furthermore, we need to make sure we still maintain our eye on that ball when it comes to terrorism, crisis response, integrated defense, I'm excuse me, deterrence. So look forward to hearing from all of you on that. We welcome you here and I yield back. Thank you. And as we're on a bit of a timeline here, it looks like votes are going to be called in about less than 25 minutes or so. So what I'd like to do is let's get our remarks from our witnesses. And then depending on when that finishes, we'll have a, if we're done with your remarks before that, then we'll have a couple of Q&A until they call votes. And then at that point, once they call votes, we will adjourn and then we will reconvene in Rayburn 2337 for a classified session. And we can continue our comments down, you know, your questions down there. We'll just kind of do what we do now, go to vote, come back, go into classified and finish when we finish. So with that, Secretary Mayer, over to you. Well, thank you, Chairman Bergman and ranking member Slotkin and distinguished members of this subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to testify in the global posture of our nation's Special Operations Forces or SOF. I'm honored to again appear alongside General Brian Fenton and I thank you for his continued partnership as we posture your SOF to meet our nation's challenges. Alongside General Fenton, I thank Command Sergeant Major Shane Shorter for their collective leadership of U.S. Special Operations Command. I would like to begin by recognizing the dedication, service, and sacrifice of our SOF team, military, civilians, and contractors. There is no starker reminder of these sacrifices than the 15 teammates we have lost in recent months as they prepared for and executed high-risk missions in support of integrated deterrence, crisis response, and counterterrorism in Europe, the Middle East, and the Pacific. Their bravery and selflessness are an enduring testament to SOF's dedication to preserving our freedoms. They represent the best of America. Let us forget neither their sacrifices nor the loss their families, friends, and loved ones still feel. In the past year we have seen an increase in demand for SOF and the unique capabilities SOF brings, from evacuating embassies to responding to attacks on allies to continued pressure on ISIS and al-Qaeda, and in the campaigning essential to the national defense strategy and integrated deterrence. SOF creates dilemmas for our adversaries, dismantles their proxy and illicit networks, and provides options for the joint force through unique understanding of the operational environment that benefits from generational relationships with allies and partners. In the Pacific, I have seen firsthand the tangible impacts of SOF presence and engagement, but we know China seeks greater global influence, and SOF, working with natural partners Spacecom, Cybercom, and Stratcom, is well positioned to operationalize integrated deterrence against the PRC globally. In Europe, not only does SOF draw on generational relationships with Ukraine in aiding its fight against Russian aggression, we also are deepening integration in the high north with Norway, a founding NATO member, and with Sweden, our newest NATO member. With these partners and others, SOF is ready for operations in the Arctic. As the Assistant Secretary, my top priority remains strengthening the congressionally directed service-like role for SOF. From this position in the administrative chain of command for SOCOM, my focus is to see that SOF's value to the national defense strategy is not only understood by Congress and our fellow citizens, but also accounted for and incorporated into the department's planning and decision processes. To that end, I appreciate Congress authorizing a second principal deputy to help me lead our SOF service-like responsibilities. In a recent report, GAO reflected our progress in building this secretariat for special operations. In another sign of progress, I am joined today by a new teammate, Navy SEAL Command Master Chief Brad Rylander, who adds a SOF unique perspective alongside the Pentagon's service senior enlisted leaders. In partnership with SOCOM, SOLIC is enhancing our analytic capabilities necessary to convey the value our SOF women and men bring to accomplishing the goals of the NDS, especially our critical role in ensuring the joint force can win without fighting. These advancements also enable SOF to better integrate with the department's process for prioritizing resources. As a key accompanying priority in SOLIC, we have also established a directorate dedicated to SOF's most important asset, our people. It is the people of the SOF enterprise, after all, who make all this work. With the support of Congress, SOCOM continues to tailor the preservation of the force and families, or POTIF, to address challenges for our service members, including a cognitive performance where SOF are leading in combating traumatic brain injury. I also have responsibility within the department for a range of policy issues with a direct impact on SOF, such as information operations, the regular warfare, counter-terrorism, counter-narcotics, counter-threat finance, and civilian harm mitigation. SOLIC strives to lead in the U.S. government's policy arena for these issues, and we continue to benefit from the support of Congress and this subcommittee in particular with resources, authorities, and advocacy. Together with SOCOM, I am focused on resourcing and readying the SOF enterprise to meet the nation's challenges, be they the well-established mission of crisis response and counter-terrorism that protect Americans from harm, or the campaigning and integrated deterrence that aim to prevent future war, or if necessary, to ensure the United States fights from a point of maximum advantage. We do this around the globe in more than 80 countries at any given time and in all domains and environments. Mr. Chairman, thank you for this subcommittee, thank you, and this subcommittee for your partnership and support. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and General Fenton, you're recognized. Chairman Bergman, Ranking Member and Distinguished Members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. Joining me is Command Sergeant Major Shane Shorter, a two-time COCOM Command Senior Enlisted Leader with over three decades of service and special operations. He represents our incredible non-commissioned officer corps that is without equal. Our NCOs stand at the very center of our command, making us the envy of militaries across the world and the object of fear among our foes. Together, we're honored to represent the 70,000 uniformed and civilian members of SOCOM, including 28 international special operations teammates and our interagency team at our headquarters. I'm honored to testify alongside Secretary Chris Mayer. His leadership and the SOLEC team's advocacy are vital for the readiness, modernization, and well-being of our force and families. As Secretary Mayer mentioned, we lost 15 of our special operations teammates over the last five months. They made the ultimate sacrifice, and their selfless acts remind us of the utmost devotion to duty in our formations. Never forgetting our fallen and supporting their families remains our sacred obligation. Our nation faces autocrats and terrorists that threaten our world. From the People's Republic of China to Russia, from Iran to North Korea, and violent extremist organizations, our adversaries seek to divide and weaken the U.S., our allies, and our partners. The PRC's global coercion, debt diplomacy, cyber intrusions, and aggression are common practice in their pursuit to rewrite the international order. Russia's unprovoked and illegal invasion of Ukraine grinds into its third year with attack on innocent civilians, abductions, and other crimes fueling their objectives in Europe. All while their disinformation campaigns spread chaos across the globe. The DPRK is increasingly belligerent, complicit, and delusional. They support Russia's aggression in Europe. Iran, a longtime malign actor, leverages its proxies, Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah, and militias, even more than before, to sow instability in the Middle East, while al-Shabaab, al-Qaeda, and ISIS still seek to threaten our homeland and interest abroad. To combat these threats, your SOCOM team delivers asymmetric and asynchronous advantage for DOD. Through our enterprise priorities of people, win, transform. Our people, the competitive and comparative advantage. Your special operations attract the most talented men and women, driven to solve the most complex problems in politically sensitive and contested environments. And with them, we win by asymmetrically deterring our adversaries, tearing apart violent extremist organizations, and rapidly responding to crisis. To be clear, DOD's main effort, integrated deterrence, is SOCOM's main effort. Since 1942, your SOF have accumulated six decades of strategic competition experience, now combined with over two decades of hard-earned combat experience in the global war on terror. These eight decades make your special operations tailor-made for this era, providing integrated strategic options to prevent great power war, winning before conflict, simultaneously preparing the environment to ensure the joint force prevails if conflict occurs. Those eight decades highlight that integrated deterrence and strategic competition are in our DNA, always has been, always will. Added to this, your SOCOM team preserves strategic focus on the pacing challenge and the acute threat because it's our duty to maintain exquisite capabilities to degrade violent extremist organizations, denying them their goals while continuing to rescue U.S. citizens and diplomats anywhere in the world. Our final priority is transform, to address the rapidly changing environment and character of war. We start with our people, enhancing war-fighting performance and education, then wrapping technology around them, like AI and uncrewed systems, to solve problems for the joint force via agile innovation. With Congress as the architect of Special Operations Command in 1987, we are thankful for your foresight, leadership and continued support. And to those listening today, considering service to our nation, know the profound sense of calling, purpose and fulfillment, those serving in uniform share. Service in our military is unparalleled. Within our ranks, you will meet people from every background and every walk of life. If you want to serve in jobs like cyber, intelligence, operations and more, join our ranks. We appreciate being here today. Thank you. And I look forward to taking your questions. Thank you, General Fenton. Since they haven't called vote yet, we're going to just continue to move forward. I'm going to reserve my questions until the end. So, ranking member Slotkin in an all Michigan effort here on the day, let's go for it. Great. Thanks for being here. Thanks for your testimony. You know, I think from my time working alongside the Special Forces and then just watching you all in the Pentagon operate, you know, there's a speed and agility that comes, I think, from the mission of your organization, but also from the experience of going into some of the most dangerous and chaotic places in the world and having to operate. And it was always something that I thought the rest of the Pentagon could learn from. And a week ago, we had a hearing in this room about acquisition, new technology, how to go from idea to fielding of a new system and how to speed that process. You all have some special authorities that allow you to go from concept to fielding faster. And I saw that particularly in Syria while back now. Can you talk to us about the authorities that you have, the experience you have of fielding new technology, your process, and then is there anything else you need from Congress that you don't have that would aid in the quick and faster acquisition of tech? Either one of you. Well, Congresswoman, I'll happily take that one. First, I start with its division of this Congress that I think has put us in that position as Special Operations Command. What I mean by that is not only the authorities that you speak, but the creation of an acquisition executive for SOCOM that's very unique in any COCOM in the fact that they don't have one. And our acquisition executive is much like the service secretary's acquisition executive services have. I think that's first and foremost. And our acquisition executive, Ms. Melissa Johnson, right now works for us as the SOCOM command team very closely. And we're blessed that she's had three different tours in our command, and she knows what we require in terms of speed, agility, flexibility, and getting equipment in the hands of our warfighters downrange. I think the authorities we have are by large measure the same as anyone else would have. I think the secret sauce is the acquisition executive in that program executive ops team that sits down at the SOCOM headquarters because they can really become part of our DNA. That's interesting. Sorry to interrupt you, but that is a different structural situation, and I'm glad to know it works. Maybe that's something we should look at for other branches. Can you give me an example of the acquisition of a new technology that has aided forces on the ground somewhere, and how you went from flash to bang on it? I can't, Congressman. The other part I think of the key pieces for SOCOM is the culture of the entire SOCOM enterprise. When someone's downrange, in this case, sees a gap or need, there is already at speed identity for our teammates that we've got to work towards. And I think the other piece is that when we identify a gap in the event of counter UAS, for instance, when we look at it, we have an opportunity first to bring industry and enterprise forward with us and turn it very quickly in a way that is in theater, in essence, a battle lab, and then get that feedback very quickly to the teammates we work for within any industry. I think that's part of it. We're willing to do as much work as industry and turning the wheel as fast as we can. I would say counter UAS is one of the greatest examples of that. When I was out in Jordan at this point over a year ago, I was shocked that the way we're doing counter UAS over ATAMF, for example, was with F-16 caps, 24-7 caps. Tell me about force protection in the minute and a half I have left, particularly in the Middle East, particularly in light of the fact that we just lost three soldiers in a drone attack in the Middle East. Congresswoman, I can speak to the SOCOM piece of that, certainly the SENTCOM theater. First and foremost, we have deployed counter UAS and kinetic systems on those counter UAS systems at our basis across the Middle East. It's layered in on top of what the SENTCOM commander has from the Army and other capabilities to allow us the sense, and that, as you know, is tough as these UASs from group 1 to group 3 start to change. And then to defeat or destroy, we have those systems downrange with the SOCOM team. We are partnered with the SENTCOM commander's experimentation. What we learned, we want that team to learn. We want the whole joint force to learn so that we're doing it at the speed of this scourge of these one-way strike drones and long range munitions that have been a long focus of the Secretary of Defense and certainly SOCOM. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. Mr. LaTrell, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Shift gears a little bit. I'm very focused in on cognitive and physical well-being of our forces, especially across the border, but the Special Warfare community, you know, they have a tendency to take it to a whole different level. And I believe, personally, just maybe because I haven't been read in in the past couple months, that there's a miss between the time that an individual enters into our programs, the time they exit our programs, and how we're following that individual through their, if you will, their cycle or their other career. Because there is a huge gap from when an individual leaves the military. As a researcher before I came here, I was dealing with injured brains and bodies. I'd have a Special Warfare guy or girl come up to me with no documentation on what they went through from start to finish, unless they chose to enter and walk into medical and say, hey, I've got this going on. And that's a huge problem. And when it comes to SOCOM, as Ms. LaTrell said earlier, we have the ability to move dynamically in any direction, which means we absolutely have the ability to problem solve for our men and women in our community. Because I'm sure you guys and gals in the room have people come up to you, hey, tell me what Ranger school is like. Tell me what it's like going through Hell Week. What's air assault like? What's airborne school like? And everything is going to different variations, right? Let me tell you from a guy that was in the Special Warfare community who's sitting out in the real world, get ready. It sucks. You're going to be chasing what you've been working on your entire life. And there's nothing on the outside that compares to what you're you're in right now. And it is my belief that we can do a better job of offloading our men and women from that bullet train that they're riding on. There's no stopping at the station. We onboard every single day, every single day, you're in the special warfare community, you're working your ass off to be better. And the second it's time for you to leave, you jump off that train and that bastard keeps going and nobody's looking back and you're alone. That's the truth. So from start to finish, when somebody enters into our program, we have to do baseline assessments, a cognitive and physical assessments. We have to we have to track their journey after every deployment. We have to make sure that we document, we have to make sure that we're listening. We need to do that in SOCOM because I'm trying to get the VA to do it. The VA is such a big machine, it's taking forever to create the process. But SOCOM can do that because if it happens in SOCOM, it trickles down into the mass. So my question is, where are we when it comes to the well being of our force? Are we learning from other countries with soft communities on what they're doing to prevent cognitive physical declines after the fact? Mr. Mayor, we missed the opportunity to chat the other day. So I'll open that with you if you don't mind. Congressman, thanks very much for the question. I think to answer your question where we are is we're much more aware of what you just articulated than probably we were five years or when you were serving with a couple concrete examples. You know, we talk about POTIF all the time in the context of SOCOM because it is such a unique set of capabilities and the continued emphasis and growth on the cognitive piece I think is a key part of that. But this transition out of the military from being part of a team and very, and particularly in the special warfare community as you're talking about to being by yourself without a lot of the resources and community there I think is something we're increasingly addressing by looking holistically. A lot of these answers are not going to be sponsored by the federal government or even sponsored by the Department of Defense, bringing in benevolent organizations that are going to be committed to tracking individuals in addition to those small communities of people I think is how we're going to need to continue to look at this. I think General Fenn will undoubtedly have more he'll want to bring to this but I think what has changed even in my time just in this role of less than three years is how much more we're putting on the cognitive side of things both both perspectives both kind of the psychological and spiritual piece as we think about our current folks that are in the force but then what happens to folks when they leave you know the scourge of suicides after folks leave is something that we've not been particularly good at getting at and I think that's something that continues to very much be a focus for us as we we really struggle in some respects to get at the bottom of what's making some of these problems so intractable. Congressman I'll add first as I mentioned in the open statement we've got 80 years of special operations and I think it's only really been the last 10 years we're starting to get our arms wrapped around this in the way that you describe through the POTIF program and we're very grateful to this congress for all the money that goes towards that and the resources to make us a performance-based organization in the way we are through the five pillars physically all the way to social spiritually behavior behaviorively and cognitively I think in that light we're better off than many nation our global soft partner nations across the world yet we still want to learn from them they do have some practices some experiences we don't and we inject that in and we share back with them all the things we have and I think that makes for a winning combination the other thing we're doing is we're certainly working with folks outside even in our own nation outside the government folks like the NFL and many of organizations that have seen certain type of injuries either before or during that profession that we want to learn from because I think to add to who SOCOM is as you mentioned we're also incredibly hungry to always get better so I think that there is still a lot of work to do on suicide brain health many others but we're blessed we've got a great start based on POTIF and this congress and we're we're committed to that thank you thank you everyone in the room for your service thank you thank you i'm mr patty you are recognized for five minutes thank you mr chairman gentlemen good afternoon thank you for being here um I think obviously you're familiar with the fact that third group special forces were assigned to Africa support operations in UCOM I guess is what's happening now and that exposed them to some information sharing uh that SUCCR and UCOM have have in place with their allies and our partners in Ukraine do you you know though obviously they're limited to how DOD can work with and through our partner forces in Africa especially when it comes to sharing information and crisis operations do you see any utility in leveraging what our third group special forces are learning in the information sharing process in UCOM and potentially replicating that process for special operations in Africa congress of net uh absolutely and I think uh we are very focused as an organization on leveraging all the experiences we have and looking to apply them because there's a lot more similarities than there are differences so to your specific question I think one of the things that has really pushed us from a soft perspective in Ukraine is the fact that we had pre-existing relationships then for decisions uh ultimately were made for us to depart it tested our ability to continue to do that uh advising and assisting from a distance so this remote capability that we've had to perfect um although it continues to be a work in progress has tremendous applicability I think with some of our partners in Africa both on counterterrorism and crisis response oftentimes the uh threat situation is such that we can't put our forces or choose not to put our forces as close to a threat so being able to leverage that's important the other area I would highlight sir is the it's already been touched on but the the massive innovation and unmanned systems in Ukraine that we're seeing occur on a daily if not weekly basis some of that's starting to manifest in Africa with threats to our basis threats to our people and so those lessons learned are incredibly valuable and need to be applied immediately sir absolutely general congressman I I think your highlight your vignette on third group is actually a good news story for uh for this congress to know and to hear it's a it's a business practice of socom and the enterprise to share those kind of lessons learned across our formation uh and you know anytime somebody's learning something forward we want that across all of our enterprise elements as fast as we can get it sometimes we do it through t socks sometimes our school houses sometimes the groups themselves which makes us as a whole a much better uh organization I would say toward information operations absolutely we see global disinformation and misinformation you know everywhere we look from the prc and and certainly from uh from uh the russian federation and if we've seen it in yukam we understand it and we can take those lessons learned into Africa I think very important certainly in light of what we're seeing right now on the continent thank you and in general obviously you and I have discussed providing our special operations forces stationed in the Sahel with tax exclusion benefits by designating Niger, Chad, Mali, Burkina Faso as qualified hazard duty hazardous duty areas as you know well this designation recognizes the emergent and consistent threats that our service members face in those locations including an increasing number of terrorist attacks uh conflict with conflicts with Wagner and growing military takeovers unfortunately we just saw Niger which is currently under a military junta expelled that they expelled American forces from the region or basically are setting it up to do so which clearly will disrupt critical ISR capabilities for our counter-terrorism operations can you give us an explanation of how that shift in operations in Niger might compound issues near and nearby in other parts of the Sahel and how that might pose increased threats to our service members? Congressman I think uh I'll start by saying there's still a lot to watch uh vis-a-vis Niger that was uh you know recently breaking uh both discussion and uh and news articles and then certainly more fidelity I would imagine from the sector and the policy side so for us still lots to watch still lots to understand and we're doing that through the AFRICOM team and our special operations command Africa I think in general any uh anytime we we uh detach from or lose a partner in that region it's a challenge at keeping our uh if this were to be the case uh it it gives us less insights indications and warnings into what uh you know any of the groups that are there terrorist or narrative wells or potentiality and the Russia PRCPs are doing or thinking about towards the U.S. and towards partners and allies so still lots to watch there we're still working with our SOC Africa team and the AFRICOM team to figure out how this goes but you can count first if anything happens it will always be credible disciplined and reliable from your special ops teams and uh and we'll continue to watch this go I don't doubt that just know that we're watching it too here very closely and if there's obviously anything that we can do to continue to highlight the fact that that's more and more going to be a an unfortunately hazardous area we're here to support their troops thank you thank you Mr. Chairman I yield back thank you Dr. Jackson you're recognized for five minutes we're going to push forward here so that Corey will you go next and then we'll break for votes thank you Mr. Chairman thank you as well to Secretary Mayor and General Fenton for being here today appreciate Charles time I have a question here but I'm going to do a little bit of lead up here just for the record but without a doubt one of the sharpest tools in the American war chest is our special operations forces highly trained highly competent highly motivated these silent professionals frequently perform our country's most critical non-fell missions when there are no other options or alternatives available right now we are confronted with recruitment and retention crisis for the military well I want to help be part of the solution for that it is clear to me that the solution we are looking at for is not to poach soft personnel to fill other unmanned positions it's absolutely imperative that we do not allow the larger recruitment challenges facing our military to impact army special operations units or special operations forces overall as we face the reality of shrinking defense budgets and possibly more missed recruiting goals cutting specialized personnel and their unique capabilities from this force is not just strategically short-sighted but also undercuts any strategy to compete with and deter malign revisionist states like China Russia Iran and North Korea the threat China poses to the United States is real and must be confronted however recent events in the Middle East and across the globe have demonstrated the absolute necessity of special operations forces and their ability to conduct counterterrorism operations as well as train and advise our partners in resisting foreign aggression cuts to these vital special operations capabilities will prove detrimental in both the short and long term unfortunately at a time where the demand signal is high for soft a decision was made to cut personnel from army special operations forces now I've been briefed on this topic and I understand the argument being made that it's not the operators being cut but rather support personnel however I would quickly argue that those enablers are highly trained and specialized as well communications logistics and intelligence personnel are the people that allow the operators to be successful it is a team effort these enablers themselves go to specialized schools have the highest level of training and are heavily integrated they're nearly impossible to replace and ultimately are the best of the best in their profession over the coming months the committee is going to sit in fy 25 posture and budget hearings and discuss how we can best support our military to compete and win against our adversaries I can assure my colleagues that cutting soft is not the answer there are two soft truths that I believe we need to keep in mind as we as we hear in this room and those in the Pentagon way important decisions like this one special operations forces cannot be mass produced and two competent special operations forces cannot be created after an emergency occurs the phrase you don't know what you've got until it's gone will prove too costly in this case if cuts are made felling to appropriately man and resource special operations will result in limited options for policymakers mission failures and loss of life and we will have no one to blame but ourselves any reduction to our special operations community would would signify an intentional degradation of key events capability and comparative advantage over our enemies I have here the budget highlights from fy 2025 2025 and looking at the so-called mission statement I look at the core activities here counter insurgency foreign internal defense security force assistance unconventional warfare counter terrorism countering weapons of mass destruction direct action hostage rescue and recovery special reconnaissance civil affairs foreign humanitarian assistance military information support operations this sounds like a big job that cuts across all services and all communities and it doesn't sound like something that we can afford to lose 3 000 members that are that are making this happen general fenton I greatly appreciate the conversations we've had on this topic and I'm encouraged that you are in lockstep on this general in your best military judgment do you believe that cutting thousands of special forces personnel including these highly specialized enablers will have a negative impact on socom's ability to effectively operate in multiple geographic locations to confront the multiple threats posed by a wide variety of adversaries who seek to bring harm to the United States in our interest congressman a couple thoughts on this and I appreciate the office call we've had last week talking about this first I will just start with convergence of some key factors here that I would want to mistake for everybody first is the recruiting challenge that we all know that across the services and in this case impacting the the army probably more than any especially in light of when we think army soft then the fiscal challenges that's well known to all and lastly all of us so com the army and many others in department have transformation designs and things we're trying to get after as as part of continuing to win tomorrow like we're winning today in that ever-changing environment I think those those all came together in a way that we often reflect to this congress about hard choices that we're all forced to make as we think about moving this in this direction that that resulted in that three three k reduction you just you just talked about I think the challenge is that that's against the backdrop of ever-increasing demands from our combatant commands a hundred and fifty percent increase or more in our crisis response of missions over the last three years and this ever-changing more challenging character and environment award what I think that absolutely has so com doing is one assessing the impacts over the course of the next couple years of these reductions and then always at forefront of mind making sure that we're giving you and this congress and this nation the best soft for the personnel and the fiscal resources will get being more purposeful and more impactful with less if that's if that's a decision but against the backdrop of what I'm seeing I certainly wouldn't support thinking that way as we go forward the next couple years thank you sir well I'll show you the people in this committee appreciate the unique thing you bring to the fight and with that I yield back thank you chairman thank you mr mills you're recognized for five minutes thank you chairman general fenton thank you so much for your decades of service thank you for all that you've done it's not just help our special operations community but across force-wide it's greatly appreciated and I don't think we can put in words all the things that you've been able to do to try and help our warfighters to move ahead shane I don't know if that legs healed up or not but last time I looked at the purple coloring on it didn't look well so I hope that you have recovered from that at some point general fenton how would or is soft so calm contributing to integrated deterrence and south com against the PRC in Russia congressman I'll start by saying against the backdrop of preventing great power conflict and I'll give a sense of that certainly preparing in the event that one were to come and then always always enabling any joint force opportunities to prevail taking that down to south com I think first this starts with our theater special operations command special operations command south it is the supported element for the south com commander in this vein and across the venue of first and foremost thickening and strengthening partners and allies in that region who want to first and foremost be associated with special operations and the 20 plus years of hard earned experiences as you know very well and then the 80 or the 60 years before that a strategic competition we are a teammate of choice in the south com or but then they also want to get a sense of our capabilities the type of equipment you we use and I would add that to that list on top of that it would be exercises in that region to show we are there we care and all that assures partners and allies in that region just how important they are to so come and certainly to the south com team in the u.s. team happy to talk more detail of exact operations and a close I appreciate that just kind of staying on that same thread of south com what is u.s. south com kind of demands for soft when it comes to gray zone activities congressman in the beginning it is about being somewhere in placement and access and I think that starts certainly through the lens of the partners we have in the region many of them for decades that have been aligned with special operations and certainly so com and then south com second it is looking at the world through the very so com-esque pair of glasses the way our teammates do downrange and coming up with challenges and dilemmas for adversaries in this case the prc that has presence in that region through diplomatic economic and other other auspices and given opportunities and advantages back to team south com team democracy team u.s.a. I can get this more of the particulars in in a closed session but those would be the two things that come to mind I appreciate that you know general one of the things that's concerned me and secretary is that we know the geopolitical alignment of russia china iran north korea we've seen them align activities and forward aggression through the now more accessible funds that's been made available through the by demonstration not only the 10 billion and fungible assets but also the amount of oil exploitation that has increased as a result of not holding the proper sanctions on them that's well understood and we've seen this for 20 plus years operating throughout the middle east i'm seeing a bigger shift however not just on the expansion and kind of their takeover for the belton road initiative on the africa continent or expansion of eurasia or domination of africa or sorry oceania to try and cut off western hemisphere supply chain and the hooties are doing a great job of that with the 12 percent of global trade they're disrupting right now and we know that part of that's the emboldment that they felt when they were delisted from the terrorist organization uh under this administration my fear now though is how they prop themselves up in our own hemisphere what we're seeing with the chavis of venezuela pedro in columbia what we're seeing now with the joint training base and operations in cuba what we're seeing with the destabilization and hady what we're noting with uh russia and prc involvement in drc and other areas for economic coercion do we have any type of a strategy or acknowledgement of what they're trying to do in our own hemisphere that we could try and use to prevent this so congressman mills i just hit briefly on the strategy because i suspect you want to hear more from general fendt here on what we're what we're doing um the short answer is yes i think there's actually a dynamic in which south com is a force limited theater has to rely more on soft because it doesn't have large platforms doesn't have the rotations that come through so i think that puts us in a position of where we are able to go some cases more broadly at the prc networks that are built there because we think from a network-centric approach so we see illicit transactions as not individual activities but part of a broader enterprise and i think we have the strategic um direction we need the the real challenge becomes actually executing that with limited forces and i think uh sock south our our so-com component that works in south com has been at the forefront of that for general richardson and south com congressman i would say if you're thinking uh the adversary i think for the prc they've laid it out pretty clearly in their china dream 2049 they want to uh they want to be the global leader they want to bend the the rules-based order in in their own image and likeness i think they want to make sure that that uh economically diplomatically military and many others that they are the premium premium of power power i sense that they're they're looking to do that in all those regions and aggregate those gains with their diplomatic coercion and predatory behavior and even at some point use of private security companies that we're we're really calling parasitic sham corporations because we know what they mean they mean nothing good for south com or sent com or african and i think that and more certainly the prc wants well i want you to both know and i appreciate it mr. secretary i appreciate general that uh any and all resources and assets that we can give you to help you to be stronger in your achievements of your goals you have my absolute support so thank you again mr chairman i yield back thank you uh well it's uh time to just about to head to votes here but uh i'll just make a statement uh as we end the unclassified portion of this um socom cannot be viewed by anyone as a bill pair when it comes for forces resources um that's not the right answer going forward to to create the environment of deterrence and the execution of of elements of operational plans where they need to be executed quickly so just know the whatever we can do and you've heard it on both sides here that we're going to do what we can to make sure that that bill pair status does not happen so with that um this hearing is now adjourned we will reconvene in rayburn 2337 for a classified session immediately following votes probably somewhere in the neighborhood of around uh 515 or 1715 i won't give it to you in zulu time i don't want to confuse too many folks but with that this hearing is now adjourned