 Thank you all so much for coming this afternoon. I don't know about you. It's been a Really wonderful week just to see people again and and get that face-to-face contact So we're just thrilled that you've been able to spend this afternoon in the session with us on Investing in positive outcomes through a human rights approach and stakeholder engagement My name is Kendra Moore. I'm a business and human rights attorney with BSR or business for social responsibility and BSR is a nonprofit business association and network of Companies we've been around for about 30 years and the goal what we do on a day-to-day basis is to support companies across industries to really amplify their efforts to respect human rights and the environment and To create a more sustainable and just future for all of us So I'm really excited today to have this conversation at a very critical point and our economic journey Here is a country in the world and to be Joined by my very esteemed colleagues Kate Finn from First Peoples Worldwide and Mary Beth Gallagher from Dominic Impact Investments to talk about this critical issue of human rights and stakeholder engagement And we hope that at the end of the session today to really leave you with Three key takeaways first a deeper understanding of what a human rights approach looks like in the impact space the role of stakeholder engagement in that approach and Lastly just some tools and lessons that we've seen in our own experiences and leave those with you Regardless of where you are and the impact ecosystem and before we get started We have a poll that we wanted to Share with you all if you have the app on a tablet or your phone You'll click on the polls tab there and we have two questions just to understand Where you all are coming from and your exposure and your work with human rights in your day-to-day operations in your organization So please feel free to submit those answers for us as we get started I'll wait for just a few seconds To see those results come through All right Looks like we have a good mix here from civil society to asset managers and allocators and some service providers and on the second question Which is How much work you do on a day-to-day basis or your exposure to human rights issues risks and impacts and a few of you are Familiar with that have have exposure to that. So that's great to know to anchor our conversation in those details and So it's probably not much of a surprise for you in the audience to know that when you think of human rights and respect for human rights The financial services industry is really far behind compared to other industries even like mining or textiles So I learned this firsthand Working directly with communities and advocating for their rights after they had been harmed by negative impacts and investments in those outcomes and this happened in project finance and impact investing But I've seen it across asset classes where harm can occur even in the best of circumstances and with the best intentions and While at BSR we're really working with companies from asset owners asset managers Investees portfolio companies to help them ground their approaches and build out tools for them to understand a human rights Landscape and what it means to respect and advance the rights of people that they're impacting through their operations and their value chains So maybe one of the first questions we should really ask and try to answer with the audience is What are human rights? I actually just talked with a few people this morning about that two investors who are asking You know it means so many different things to different people You know, where do you even start and I said to them? It's really about the inherent What's inherent to being human? It's about dignity and if you think back to modern, you know, human rights standards international standards that we have today They're pretty much grounded for centuries, but coming out of the Second World War where governments agreed to International standards to respect human rights. So it covers things like the right to privacy the right to health care the right to education The right to have a family or not have a family freedom of association Indigenous peoples rights, so it covers a wide range of things and from the ESG lens if you're if you're in that space as well It's woven throughout the e the s and the g pillars So it's not just a single thing or a single point in time It's it's really grounded in the outcomes and impacts on people in their day-to-day lives and their rights and grounded in human dignity So we start with that and and think through okay, so we understand a little bit more about what human rights are But what does that mean to me like okay? Human rights are important. What does that mean for investors and finance in general? Why is it why is it important and you'll hear a lot of the common reasons? Of course the moral reasons That I think are probably very familiar with the SoCav crowd But also the regulatory risks if you're exposed to say European markets where there's a lot of regulatory Developments around human rights due diligence Mandatory disclosures things of that sort so depending on the industries you're investing in or your investment vehicles What your exposure is those could be very meaningful for you? Also the financial risk if something goes wrong you have that you have legal risk Reputational risk so a lot of exposure talking more about risk risk risk There's also a lot more attention from media and civil society on Human rights impacts including from investors who are asking questions getting questions from their shareholders To take action pay more attention to human rights I feel like though those are all great reasons and very valid But at the same time for impact investors and in this space the human rights approach is Absolutely critical. It's not just about risk mitigation And it's not just about reputation, but it's about maximizing positive outcomes of each investment and really empowering people and Communities to drive lasting change on their own terms by their own design So the human rights approach provides us with tools and a framework to really look at finance differently To see it as an avenue or a means to advance respect for human rights and for dignity for all and The framework that we use as practitioners in the human rights space is the UN guiding principles on Business and human rights some of you may have heard of it. It's the the UN GPS for short And they were widely passed by governments back in 2011 I mean that was a long time ago if you think before before the pandemic days And it's slowly gotten traction the UN GPS in the financial space And you know much more so in and I in the impact space Because I think the terminology and some of the the approaches for impact investors are are a little more aligned Than in other asset classes, but that said the UN GPS are enormously enormously useful they provide a framework and a lens and lay out the expectations for all businesses all businesses across every sector and How they're supposed to respect human rights for instance through a policy commitment human rights due diligence monitoring evaluation disclosure Making sure that you're transparent about your human rights impacts what you're doing about them and what your actual How you're addressing those through stakeholder engagement So a cornerstone of the UN GPS and respecting human rights is truly meaningful stakeholder Engagement getting those voices even critical voices at the table to learn not only what could go wrong and how to prevent harm but to really hear how you can Facilitate and amplify those voices and turn it into positive lasting change So turning to my colleagues first Mary Beth, I'd love to hear from you a little bit about How from an investor perspective you see the human rights approach? what does that look like in practice and Tell us about stakeholder engagement with that with that how that connects to your work human rights approach at Dominic Thanks, Kendra, and thanks so much everyone for being here It's great to have the opportunity to share a little bit about Dominic's work, and I'll start by saying We're learning and doing this work in collaboration and together So I think I'll I'll share what we're doing. There's like so much room for us to continue to grow and strengthen our work but just to start Dominic is a mutual fund so we invest in publicly traded companies and fixed income investments and We recognize that corporations are Inherently connected to a lot of impacts on communities and stakeholders There are some sectors of corporations that are fundamentally misaligned with the human rights-based approach And Dominic thinks about all of that as we build our portfolios. So we align our investments With our standards that look at universal human dignity and ecological sustainability And it starts with sort of deciding which companies are eligible for investment and we look first at a company's business model How do you make your money? Are you building something? That's good for society. Are you building something? That's everyone has access to without discrimination that serves a public good And then how do you treat your stakeholders? So when we think about stakeholders at Dominic? We're looking at a company's employees its customers its supply chain partners It's community stakeholders. It's investors and all of those Institutions and individuals that a company impacts and we put that into our investment Analysis process and part of what the way we look at stakeholder engagement is where we get our data So we're looking at like company disclosures But also thinking about community stakeholders who may be connected to companies and have insights that are important for our evaluation And then we think about what is our role in our responsibility once we're an investor in a company? And that's where my role as director of engagement comes in really thinking about How we can engage with companies when we identify a problem or an area where they Need to improve their practices for example If they're not allowing workers to organize they have anti-union tactics We might engage on freedom of association or collective bargaining Or if communities have concerns around Increased investment in fossil fuels when a company has made a commitment to the low carbon transit transition We might encourage them to adopt a stronger climate policy and then engage with them about it So we are trying to learn from stakeholders around how a company is impacting communities and then use our voice as share owners through investor dialogues with corporate executives through Attending shareholder meetings through filing shareholder proposals using this array of tools to try to hold companies Either to account or to improve so that's just a little bit about how we think about stakeholders and Incorporate it into our incorporate them into our work and I'll just say Fundamentally we're starting with a premise that a lot of stakeholders don't trust investors don't trust companies So we have to really think about it from what's in it for me I've just said like we've learned a lot and improves our process, but also what's in it for them And how can we use our voice and leverage in a way that adds value and helps those community partners stakeholders rights holders to advance their own agenda so really balancing That mutuality and relationship is key Absolutely Relationship is key and I'm wondering Kate from your perspective working with indigenous communities and and seeing the impacts of investments on the ground What does meaningful stakeholder engagement really look like in practice? What and why is it important to those communities? Absolutely, and thank you for the question and thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today and to speak to you all My name is Kate Finn. I'm the director of First Peoples worldwide Our mission is to work from a foundation of indigenous values to achieve a sustainable future for all and What we do day-to-day as an organization is build bridges between indigenous peoples and the private sector So so to get to your question Kendra. Why why why is meaningful engagement important? What does it look like for indigenous communities for this constituency that I work with? Meaningful engagement looks like f pic it looks like free prior and informed consent And that can be done in so so many different ways But I want to just take just a tiny moment while I have the mic to do a little bit of history like why Why stakeholder engagement? Why is this a thing? Why why do we need it and why is it important? And why is it actually critical when you think about the way that you move your money through your portfolio? So for indigenous peoples in particular in the United States indigenous peoples have been Subject to waves of racist and assimilationist policies throughout time Since before the treaties so we know that there was in the 1800s It was the policy of the United States to remove indigenous peoples from their land land dispossession Resource dispossession and like to physically move tribes away And one scholar has called that a measured separatism. It was intentional. It was an intentional Invisibilizing But where that is today and then that was continued throughout policy, right? So then tribes were over here somewhere where people didn't see them But then the government decided that people from tribes should be dispossessed of each other That people should move to big cities and there was policies around termination of tribes and there was the boarding school era Where children were taken away from their families. So there's been intentional policy intentional Legal structures towards indigenous peoples that have removed them and invisibilized us And here's the thing that we still live with today is this economic invisibility What we work with every single day is not that native entrepreneurs Native people and native organizations aren't coming up with real-time solutions because they are It's the invisibility that persists. It's the economic invisibility and that idea that that people are over here on the sidelines and My work every single day is to work with native entrepreneurs native organizations tribes and tribal enterprises Who are on the ground doing the real thing when you want data when you talk about data and data on indigenous peoples? There are tribes who have that there is You know officers that every tribe that has data on how the climate is affecting their particular lands So stakeholder engagement is the way to integrate that data to operationalize that data and to walk into a better Relationship and the reason that this is important is because I believe that investors have a role in Operationalizing what engagement looks like and how it can look better So of course free prior and informed consent is a right that's written into the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples that was adopted in 2007 and free prior and informed consent is a right. It's also a process it's a way to Elevate indigenous leadership and to ensure that there's equity in decision-making and equity in participation and any Decision that impacts lands territories and resources So not just the decisions that impact people negatively although those are the ones we hear about most But also the deal-making also the capital infusions also the impact investments, right? It's the way to ensure that there is equity that everyone is visible at the table and to make sure that what is going forward is Better and is actually aligned with human rights And I really do believe that because of the history of policy in Indian country in the US Any investment into Indian country is an impact investment And I think that a rights-aligned approach is the way to do it better to do it differently and to drive a continue of Continuum of capital That is meaningful for everyone That's great Kate now. You're well said for sure And it's a key takeaway. I think for for all of us to remember like how can we really do it better? In a system that is largely largely broken in many ways And I'm wondering if we could maybe talk a little bit more about the collaboration between you two from different from different angles I knew you both have worked on the line three Pipeline project pipeline replacement project So what have you found is is like key lessons from that collaboration in terms of respecting human rights What what's coming to the surface in this ongoing work that you're doing together? Yeah, so so the work is ongoing as as always but one of the things that we do at First Peoples worldwide is move indigenous priorities to Investors who want to work through shareholder advocacy and who can use their their power and shareholder advocacy to really move those Priorities so when we talk about line three, we're talking about a pipeline that was built through an Ishinabe territory And the pipeline was originally built in 1961 and put into operation in 1968 It had numerous spills and then in 2016 there was a dissent Consent decree that the pipeline needed to be rebuilt and the company upon Hearing that the pipeline needed to be rebuilt all of the communities in that area and that watershed Announced their opposition. They did not give their free prior and informed consent and several tribes started Legal advocacy and legal cases to oppose that pipeline What I was able to do with the support of tribal leaders is to bring this priority to Shareholder advocates who actually signed a letter representing two trillion dollars in assets Under management that we sent to banks Who are financing the company to say? This is material that Consent was not given and in fact this pipeline is being built and so Mary Beth Moved that moved that engagement through. Yeah, it's a building. I want Kate shared So I think they're it like speaks to sort of the process to how did the issue come to investors and That's part of what's important for us. We can have what we work on it as well as how we work on it informed by stakeholders, so Learning from the work of First Peoples and this investor letter our Responsibility than a shareholders in the banks that finance the pipeline replacement Was to reach out to them and seek You know more information your company that has commitments to the equator principles your company with the human rights policy You're a company that has talked about the importance of indigenous leadership Why did you finance a pipeline that communities vocally and consistently opposed prior to it moving forward? So our role then as shareholders was to send this letter and then meet with the company executives And I think another learning from this process was that? As shareholders we approached those meetings with Kate at the table with us as an issue expert as a representative of her partners Who had closer connections to the pipeline and it shifted the conversation completely to? Sort of like a process-oriented transactional Conversation of you have a policy you want to know like what happened to really starting the conversation what f pic means what it what f pic done right looks like as a process and You know we hold thousands of companies we invest Using the best available data that companies put out in their disclosure and Part of our role and shareholder advocacy and engagement is to understand you have a policy How is it being implemented in practice? We see this divide help us understand it in the future help us close that divide So really translating into conversations where you're in discourse with companies about what went wrong trying to Encourage them to learn from these experiences so that next time we're not repairing harm, but acting in a way that's preventative So really like leaning on the expertise of Kate was our our benefit hopefully by using investor leverage We elevated the work that they're doing and trying to gain more Action from companies frankly to do better next time and to incorporate into their due diligence processes their corporate lending their project finance more rights based and rights aligned f pic processes and This is like a little bit in the weeds But I think is part of what makes it different when you engage with stakeholders so Kate described this f pic process That's meaningful Relational and a lot of companies talk about Not consultation are not consent but consultation And there's a real difference in the outcomes when you're consulting with someone like yes We want to hear from you, but we're still gonna make the decision that we were seeking to make whereas consent is an opt-in or opt-out. There's really Sovereignty and leadership by indigenous peoples and granting or not granting Consent whereas consultations sort of a company can move forward regardless of what they've heard and You know, we work on lots of different issues and that nuance is something that We might not notice if we didn't have stakeholder partners sort of helping us Understand why what that difference looks like in practice It looks like a pipeline not being built that community is opposed as a instead of a pipeline being built in the face of opposition And so when we talk about outcomes and expectations and really terms, there's so much that's embedded in In those terms that communities who have more at stake are thinking about when they hear Consent They mean consent. They don't mean consultation and a company that's sort of going through a check the box exercise Doesn't necessarily understand the Gravity of those kinds of differences. I think that's a really good point like Actually getting through you know that message of what consent really means and that meaningful stakeholder engagement like those Principles what that looks like both from the community lens and you know the investor or the investees and how they're approaching it I know even at BSR some of the tools that we use when we're working with investors And portfolio companies is really you know helping them identify in this universe of human rights impacts that could occur With the investment is you know, okay, so we have this big lens You know helping them understand what the salient most severe rights Risks and impacts might be and then directing their engagement Focusing their engagement to try to understand those risks and impacts and prevent them in a more meaningful way So it isn't like well, we have to engage everyone on everything. It's really much More strategic than that and I think you get better information when you can concentrate your efforts in that way And I'm wondering if you both have other tools or strategies For investors or investees that you would recommend when they're thinking through they're serious about this They want to do it, right? They want to be engaged with stakeholders. What is what are some tools that you have in mind that you might share? Sure. Happy happy to speak to that. So You know like I said with it with indigenous communities, it's free prior and informed consent That is the way to operationalize a good relationship, but it is taking the time to understand What does that mean for you? Where do you sit and what does that mean? You know, we have at First Peoples worldwide a Free prior and informed consent due diligence questionnaire that we give to companies that kind of walks through all of the steps that they need in order to understand their their Impacts but also to understand their exposure to indigenous rights risk And that is one way to start and to really walk through and think through and I think the other thing too is to You know think about when you're working with rights holders when you're working with Stakeholders, it's this issue that Mary Beth said so eloquently, you know, it's not just about getting to a yes It's not just about moving forward with the project It's about being ready to hear what it is the stakeholder community What did it what the rights holder community what the tribe is saying and being ready to Operationalize and work what it is that they're saying into your process and being ready to accept a no or a conditional No or a conditional yes or yes, or maybe we need this kind of capital But not this kind of capital or maybe your networking support whatever that is It's about being ready and designing your approach to the stakeholders that you touch in a way that allows that leadership and that information to flow forward Yeah, I guess I'll start with the basics like who do you partner with and how do you find them some of that just comes from like Reading the paper and like who's Who's writing a report about a company that we own shares in and what are their concerns? And then like following up with them explaining our willingness and opening openness to Being a partner with them and having our strategy informed by them So just like outreach who do you who do you partner with? How do you know that they? understand The issue and I have an interest in sitting alongside an asset manager I think an openness to receiving information just net earlier today I was at the the Dominique booth and somebody came approached us and Pointed out a company that we highlight in our investment report and shared about their experience with that company And how it sort of conflicted with our our description of why they were a good investment And I think you know that's not ideal But we are an investor that looks at all the information we have available to us and sort of balance The good and the bad like a lot of these companies are imperfect But I think that a willingness to receive that information then now that we know like act on it Okay now I want to ask this company about how they treat their workforce or Follow up with this individual and see if they'll share more about their experience with that company so that we can constantly be in like a learning and reaction reaction mode and Rather than defensive like I think We have to recognize that Once we know something and once a partner has shared information with us that sort of shifts us into an action Mode so being willing to sort of be led and be critiqued. I think as part of it. That's hard And then like understanding the tools that we have expertise in so Shareholder dialogue writing a shareholder proposal and submitting that for a company's proxy statement Attending a shareholder meeting. These are tools that I know well and if I Meet with a partner and say like this is this is that it these are the tools we have are you trying to raise visibility? Or speak directly to the board. Are you trying to garner attention from a broad shareholder base? Let's write a letter sort of explaining the tools that we have and then Seeing how a partner wants to use those tools to advance their objectives For sure like doing that in collaboration and building a strategy together that helps us Be credible actors and investors in a company. We can't sort of Act at odds with our own fiduciary obligations, but also really thinking about willing to share the decision-making on what goals we set And even as I referenced earlier that Kate joined these engagements with the banks around the financing Not every company is open to that and part of what we need to do as partners is be clear on the terms and expectations So we'll partner together. There are going to be companies that Won't let a community activists join the conversation Is that mean we won't meet with them unless you're there or just being really clear about expectations and What partnership looks like when we're going to be keeping you informed when we're going to be seeking your input when You can drive the train and when we need to and like at least just being honest about the real meaningful limitations Of the financial tools that we have available I think that's a really good point. It's like looking at that toolbox like seeing all the different avenues or tools you have to either use leverage Build collective action maybe with other investors or other companies like minded companies or even from the civil society perspective, you know joining forces together to to pressure change in the right direction and One thing that comes to mind is you know from what you were saying Kate It's you know getting that consent, which might be a conditional. No might be a conditional. Yes But it's also it's not only about like preventing harm down the road But listening for those opportunities because if it is a conditional no or yes, what could it mean if you're Transforming that into a yes through this meaningful engagement and building those lasting relationships How does that turn it into a much stronger? Impact case a much better sustainable outcome for you and the investment side or the company That's delivering the product or the service as well as for the community It's it's a win-win-win and I think from our perspective It's always like it's hard to see why no one else sees that or why you know We this seems to be a newer approach in some circles And the challenge with bringing that on I think it is it is difficult. It is certainly a lot of work To engage it's a choice to engage But in the impact space it seems like it's it's absolutely fundamental to getting to from a to z And I'm wondering we have a few minutes left here If either of you have some take aways key points you want to leave the audience with as we wrap up Key thoughts or or messages you wanted to share I guess I can start Just to say for us. I think it's like we're opting in to stakeholder engagement, which is a real position of privilege I think I see the value in it. It's inherently Something I'm inclined to want to do but I think we're sitting in a position where we can sort of also not engage with stakeholders and I think that's at great risk to the the world we're trying to create through our investments and Partners need us to be willing and able to partner with them If we want to achieve the outcomes we're looking for so it feels like a nice sort of layer on or Additionality, but I think really it's a fundamental responsibility and thinking about how we Build more connections so that investors are better connected to stakeholders We're often like so far away and working on so many companies, but when we're thinking about Worker well-being and access to health and clean air and water like people who's rights and Opportunity to live a safe and healthy life are affected by companies need to have different venues to raise those concerns And we need to be sort of willing to work with them And we know there are solutions that work designed by the very people who are most impacted Worker driven social responsibility models have changed the experience of farm workers in Immaculate, Florida because they created a solution that address the problems that they face and our willingness to learn from those solutions and then help them scale it where we have leverage I Think offers the most potential for us to drive meaningful outcome. So I guess just an openness and an encouragement to see this as part of our Obligation as impact investors So I think there's there's kind of two things that I would Press on and one is what Mary Beth said it's it's We all have a role in this work together And it's about defining the goal together and stepping into good relationship and being in the design of the solutions together And also that that you know the gravity of the situation falls differently So for example one of the most successful Shareholder engagements that we've seen at first people's worldwide was when we were able to and it was an effort over 30 years There was a lot of work when the Washington football team, you know They changed their name to the Redskins in the late 1960s, which of course is a dictionary defined racist slur In the early 1970s native women really picked up in native organizations Picked up to tell the team. This is not okay. This is not okay in the 1990s We saw legal advocacy in cases that actually went up to the Supreme Court to try and fight that name and then in the early 2000s Shareholder advocates came together and look and looked at the companies that surrounded the team PepsiCo Nike and FedEx had the stadium and started going to the AGM started engaging And it was through power sharing it was through going in through these shareholder advocates for years and years and years and then In 2020 when the NFL said that they were committed to ending racism We once again renewed those calls To the companies in I believe the letter was sent on July 6th of 2020 and by July 13th The team had retired their racist name So there's power. There's power in this work, but what it means for me. I'm so glad that the name was retired I'm so glad that the advocacy of all of those people worked But what it means for me is that over in this country over 200 high schools have changed away from their their racist mascots 200 high schools have So to me what that means is there are native kids all over the country that just get to play baseball And they just get to play basketball and they get to live in dignity and their identity is not at stake When they face opposing teams that do things like the the tomahawk chop So the gravity is real and the opportunity is real we can change How people are living their lives and how native Native kids and our future generations are going so it it means a lot It means a lot to me It means a lot to my children that we were able to do that and there's so much more advocacy that's coming and I think to the goal-setting You know priority that Mary Beth said it really is about Impact investors and those with capital designing their approach to stakeholder engagement not necessarily Designing the solution or defining the solution but designing how you will step in in a rights-based way To really affect the lives of people on the ground That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that We have just a few more moments and we'd love to take questions here. We have a few lined up Just gonna go in order What metrics do you use in evaluating whether a company is meeting human rights goals and standards Metrics it always goes back to metrics. No, I think that's important an important question So first we want a company to have a commitment like do you have a policy to respect human rights that applies all across your business? So that's the starting point and then measuring their progress in fulfilling that so it might look like How they address grievances it might look like how they ensure that workers have a Opportunity to thrive without freedom of without harassment and discrimination in the workplace it might look like Creating products and services that meet the needs of vulnerable populations So I think it's it depends a bit on what a company's business model is In our research process. We have a really detailed evaluation of sort of within different segments What rights respecting business operations look like? But we need to see improved disclosure for sure Whether around human capital management or more climate-related financial disclosures to help us better evaluate company progress because we simply have Too many data gaps and that's why stakeholders are so important for sharing information about When a policy is out there that it's not being put into practice So a little bit of a wishy-washy answer But there's a lot we're looking to see and a lot of it is qualitative rather than quantitative Mary Beth this one's for you. I'm gonna try to be rapid fire here So you've limited time and resources as we all do How do you prioritize for the greatest potential for impact? Yeah, I think this is a really meaningful constraint is time So like time is the reason we don't do stakeholder engagement for every single engagement We do because we couldn't be good partners that way. So really thinking about Where there's Exposure whether it's the size of our investment in a company or the severity of Human rights impacts sort of the saliency framework that Kendra walked through Some of it is opportunistic when a war begins and we have exposure to that war through Supply chains and the companies we invest in that raises some responsibilities. So we have some priorities around Human rights and workplace addressing systemic racism addressing climate change and work within that framework to think about priorities But I also have a certain segment of our workplace our work plan That's emergent just based on sort of what we see coming through the research coming through Media monitoring and through stakeholder inputs Excellent, okay And here's a good one Do you have any examples of successful stakeholder advocacy and how? Two-part question and how can stakeholders use these tools to pressure large public companies? I might just share one one at one example of successful stakeholder advocacy and working with a number of civil society actors to push Development finance institutions to really take their investments in Haiti seriously Where there was a lot of pressure on a so-called impact investment project an industrial port to revitalize the country after the earthquake Unfortunately, there was very little due diligence done on the forefront and a lot of people got displaced lost their jobs lost their livelihoods and there was a real moment where we were not only you know working with local groups on the ground but International organizations all over from different from foundations to the media to really amplify the issues that were happening on the ground and again even in the best of Circumstances best intentions until we finally got a mediated dialogue with the Inter-American Development Bank in USA ID to sit down with the communities and provide them with restitution and a forward-looking path to Restoring their livelihoods. I don't know to either of you have have good examples of stakeholder advocacy Absolutely, so I think you know the Washington football team advocacy was over 30 years Something that happened very quickly relatively quickly We work with the Gwich'in steering committee to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge their sacred lands Is in the coastal plain? Over two years we were able to work and their their mandate their priority is no oil and gas drilling That's what the Gwich'in steering committee wants We work with them for over for two years and we were able to secure Commitments from 29 international banks not to finance oil and gas drilling in the coastal plain And there are now 17 insurance companies that have agreed not to release any insurance products Related to development in the in the coastal plain So not every tribe not every indigenous issue is development, but it's certainly a big one And really that was because the Gwich'in steering committee We were able to work with leadership to bring them to all of those meetings. They went all Around the world. We've been all over in lots of different rooms and spaces To say what the coastal plain means and what it looks like and so that has been very successful Because it's protecting the space that's sacred to the Gwich'in Sure, I think defining success in different ways I think is important because of that timeline So we're not seeing like monumental corporate shifts overnight just because of the entrenched systems of oppression and inequality that are Here and hard to shift So thinking about like increased visibility a different platform more partners Investors being better equipped to speak as advocates alongside partners So really like giving ourselves the space to grow into the outcomes that were the monumental shifts we're looking for and recognizing that Partnership along the way that's trust building and relationship oriented is successful So like I think the line three collaboration while we haven't seen Any of the 12 banks sort of shift overnight? We've deepened our own expertise. We've deepened the relationship. So next time we won't have to wait two years After the controversy to send the letter will be there before it happens and I think part of that is building readiness and appetite so There are like other examples we can share for sure, but I really want to focus on Giving ourselves space to to identify Relationships as a success because they're not automatic and they take a lot of Effort to develop and it's really meaningful when that helps enhance the quality and the outcomes of our work Thank you both so much and thank you everyone. I'm sorry. We didn't get to all the questions Please catch us outside or at any other events if you want to talk further There were some other really great questions in there and really really hope that we can transform the system and make it more rights Respecting I think we owe it To the society that we live in and in our environment to do so. So thank you all so much for coming