 Hi everybody welcome back In the in the waiting room where we're in the lobby waiting just beautiful So up next something that has been waiting for Gabber Matei retired physician and you know many of you know this but for 20 years Gabber Was a family physician, you know had a family practice and had kind of care experience But then he worked for decades in the downtown Eastside With patients who were challenged with drug addicting and mental illness and from all of that experience He he began to write and he is the author of four books published in 30 languages So many people talk about those books, especially in the field that you all work in Internationally renowned speaker just mentioned to me a moment ago He's going to be doing an international gig coming up very soon That's that's interesting after the couple of years. We've had And he's highly sought after to talk about addictions trauma childhood development and relation the relationship between stress and health And today he's going to focus on mental health in schools and what's going to happen here is that Dr. Matei is going to come on and do make a few opening comments And then I will join him and mostly I facilitate questions from you so when I come back after Gabber has spoken to for I'll explain more about exactly how that's going to work how we'll take questions from you So without any further ado, please welcome Dr. Gabber Matei Thank you, Maria. It's always a pleasure to work with you and It's a pleasure for me to speak to teachers. Just one quick note if you anybody knows my right eye being very red today Nobody beat me up. I seem to have birth of blood vessel swimming this morning. So that's all that happened It's especially a pleasure for me to speak with teachers for two reasons One is that I used to be a high school teacher myself. Some of you don't know this but I thought high school for three years and I Decided working with kids is way too stressful. So I went to medical school instead and The other reason is is that In our society Kids spend more time in school Then they do with their parents Which is completely unnatural It's completely unnatural from the point of view of human development Because we evolved over hundreds of thousands in fact millions of years in small-band hunter-gatherer groups where Children were with their parents the whole day And it was completely different and that's what we evolved. That was our evolutionary niche now When civilization came in the scene what we call civilization Or 12,000 years ago that started to change so that The environment and with the rise of industrial capitalism has changed even more so that the Situation where kids are away from their parents the whole day and there with other adults who? are Every year strangers to them Is both unnatural and unprecedented now The press the prevalence of I'm not saying it's wrong by the way I just said it's unnatural and unprecedented and we have to be aware of its implications and what that means now Within the last three weeks. There's been two major articles one in the New Yorker magazine. The other is in your own times about the increasing suicide rate amongst children and Both the articles say that this is a mysterious trend We don't understand it But to my mind there's nothing mysterious about it because the mental health of children has been increasingly Unbalanced for over the last several decades more and more children are being diagnosed with all manner of disorders from ADHD attention deficit high-practice disorder oppositional defined disorder Conduct disorders reactive attachment disorders anxiety depression and so on and The medical model that I was trained in and that most physicians still follows that what we're dealing with here are disorders of the brain and Significantly genetically determined That cannot be the case Because if it was the case the numbers wouldn't be going up because genes don't change in a population over 10 20 30 50 or 100 years So if we're seeing something in greater preponderance, what it cannot be due to is genetics Now some people may argue that nothing is actually changing. We're just better at diagnosing things Or we might be too keen to diagnose things Well, that may be some truth to that but it doesn't explain what's going on It doesn't explain the increasing number of visits For suicide attempts to emergency wards And it doesn't explain much of the trends that i'm describing So If it's not genes, we're going to find the answer Then we're going to find the answer now unfortunately The parenting literature and The school systems in general When they look at kids with these problems, they see behavior issues So bullying is a behavior issue and so they Answer has been in many school boards zero tolerance now once in preparation for a book that I didn't get to write because I didn't have time on bullying with my friend Gordon newfield I looked at the literature On the impact of zero tolerance policies on bullying, you know what the There was an article that summed up all the research, you know what it said zero tolerance zero evidence So there's zero evidence that trying to change kids behaviors either through positive incentives Or particularly through punishment and social isolation does any good whatsoever in fact predictably they create more problems So I want to set aside any idea that we're dealing with behavioral issues here Because those what we have to look at is what's happening to kids When kids act out, why did they behave the way they do and I've often said this Take that phase acting out when I say acting out the natural tendencies for your mind to imagine a kid who's being obstreperous oppositional rude aggressive disobedient But consider the I used to be an English teacher. So I pay a lot of attention to language So consider the actual meaning of the phase acting out. What does it actually mean? It means that we portray in behavior something that hadn't we haven't got the language to say in words So in a game of charades Where you're by rule not allowed to speak what do you have to do to convey the message you have to act it out Or if you land in a country where nobody spoke your language and you had to portray hunger You'd have to make some gestures indicating a desire to eat So acting out then is Representing in behavior something you haven't got the language for We can respond by trying to Inhibit the the form of the message was just the behavior or we can get the message What are the kids actually acting out? What kids are actually acting out I will maintain and I say so backed by A lot of scientific literature What kids are acting out are the emotional psychological dynamics So bullies acting out his or her or their lack of self-esteem And their need to dominate others You know to feel better about themselves Is the solution then to punish the boeing and you know zero tolerance was it to Provide that kid with a sense of self-esteem What it all comes down to and how did the child lose the self-esteem? Why did they not develop in the first place? Well, here's the thing the human child And the brain of the human child Develops an interaction with the environment So even if we're to look at these various conditions like ADHD and anxiety or depression or oppositional defiant disorder As brain problems we still have to ask ourselves. How does the human brain develop? Now I will quote you Two lines or two sentences from an article From the harvard center on the developing child. This is the world's foremost child developmental study institute at harvard university and the article appeared In a journal pediatrics ten years ago now Pediatrics the journal is the official journal of the american pediatric academy I'm going to give you two sentences on brain development The architecture of the brain is constructed to an ongoing process that begins before birth Continues into adulthood And establishes either a sturdy or a fragile foundation for all the health learning and behavior that follow I'll go through that again The architecture of the brain is constructed to an ongoing process that begins before birth You know what that means that means that already The child's experiences in utero have an impact on their brain development And the most stressed mothers are the most stressed hormones Get transferred to the baby through the placenta of the umbilical cord that interferes with brain development So if we're going to start looking at why so many kids are having problems Let's look at the stress on pregnant women in this society Okay ongoing process that begins before birth Continues into adulthood. I'd like you to consider the Implications of that statement continues into adulthood It means that the schools Whether they realize it or not Are not in the business of teaching mathematics Or what year the battle of water who takes to place Or who are the fathers of confederation. They're in the business of constructing brains Because if you construct brains That are good The child will very easily learn mathematics Very easily Have a curiosity about history It will be a joy to teach But fundamentally What we want is our healthy brains They're engaged with the world That's your main job I maintain Especially since as I said in the beginning kids spend so much of their time in the schools So to finish that sentence Continues into adulthood And establishes either a sturdy or fragile foundation For all the health learning and behavior that follow not some of the health Not some of the learning all the health learning and behavior of all So the template for healthy learning and behavior And health itself Is a brain that develops optimally That's the first sentence Rich in implications The second sentence is The interactions of genes and experiences Literally shapes the circuitry of the developing brain Not genes The interactions of genes and experiences Experiences turn genes on and off It's experiences acting on a genetic potential That actually determines brain development And you can have two kids with exactly the same set of genes Give them different experiences. There'll be two very different people So the interaction of genes and experiences literally shapes the circuitry of the developing brain And is critically influenced by the mutual responsiveness of adult child relationships Particularly in the early childhood years In other words, the biggest influence On the development of healthy brain circuits of incentive and motivation and curiosity The capacity to acquire information Impulse regulation Empathy Compassion Connection with others The biggest influence is the quality of adult child relationships Now again By that they largely mean parents But again given that kids spend so much time away from their parents from daycare onwards to their 18 years of age Graduated from high school. We're talking about the quality of adult child relationships. And what I'm saying therefore Is that the biggest Contribution Teachers can make To the healthy development of the of the children Is not just how good they are at the subject matter that they're trying to convey But the quality of their relationships with the child Because when the child feels connected with and safe What happens is that the prefrontal cortex the part of the brain that learns And can make decisions opens up and is available When a child doesn't feel understood and seen and validated and safe that shuts down And that child is not able to learn No teachers cannot be responsible for the original template of how kids develop because that happens in a family of origin, but you have to understand That these kids with mental health issues and behavior problems They're challenged Because they haven't had the necessary conditions for healthy brain development All right, I mentioned oppositional defined disorder. I'm going to tell you how meaningless these diagnoses are Diagnoses don't explain anything. Now, I myself have been diagnosed with ADHD attention deficit hyperactive disorder That happened in my 50s and my first book was about that subject In which I pointed out that this is not an inherited brain disease that the tuning out and the absent mindedness are actually Nature given coping mechanisms when there's too much stress So if I'm stressed and I can't change the situation or escape it my mind will tune out But what happens when the parenting environment is stressed in the child's early years when the brain is developing? in the first year of life There are times when every minute billions of connections are being made in the brain under the impact of the environment So the more stressed parents are The more stressed the infant is the more stressed the infant is the more they need to tune out When their brain is developing So i'm not dealing with the disease here. We're dealing with that. We have sponsored the environment. If you want to help that child We have to make them feel safe. So they don't have to tune out oppositional defined disorder Another one of these so-called diagnosis Now by the way, ADHD doesn't explain anything. So you might say Gabor has ADHD How do we know that Gabor has ADHD? Because he has tune because he tends he has a tendency to be absent minded and he's got poor impulse control Which has been historically true about me by the way I've grown out of it, but i'm 78, you know Uh, so Gabor has ADHD. Well, how do we know he's got ADHD? Because he tunes out and he's got poor impulse control Why does he have poor impulse control and why does he tune out? He's got ADHD How do we know he's got ADHD because he tunes out and says poor impulse control Why does he you know, in other words, we haven't explained the thing. Have we we've described it But we haven't explained it The explanation is in a child's relationship with the environment oppositional defined disorder That's the diagnosis that's increasingly being made We've got this disease or this condition called oppositional defined disorder That's the stupidest diagnosis in the whole world. It doesn't even exist Not only doesn't exist in real life It can't even exist in theory Because it assumes that the child has a disorder Now think about it oppositionality Can I be oppositional to somebody that i'm not in relationship with? If you know what i'm talking about Tonight when you go home or if you're at home right now Go into a room by yourself Shut the door Make sure there's nobody under the bed or behind the curtains and or post somebody when you're by yourself And if you succeed in doing so for god's sake, explore it on youtube because we all want to see how it works Oppositionality by definition implies a relationship, doesn't it? And if oppositionality finds By definition implies a relationship. Why aren't we diagnosing the child's relationship with the adult world? Rather than diagnosing the child So these kids who Have the odd traits which describes how they behave They behave that way because they don't have a good enough relationship with the adult world They may not even trust the adult world and maybe they've been pushed on too much By the adults with expectations and demands. So they're pushing back That doesn't mean we don't have a real problem to deal with But it means that we're barking up the wrong tree if we're trying to diagnose the child with this disorder So I could Explain anxiety or depression along similar lines. These are all responses to the environment Now teachers have an unenviable or a very challenging job because On the one hand, you are tasked with delivering certain information to kids But on the other hand, a lot of these kids are challenged. So they have difficulty Absorbing that information even following the rules What are you supposed to do now? Here's what the problem in I can tell you lots of problems in medical education Most physicians wouldn't know what I'm talking about Even though the science is not even controversial But I'm afraid that that As far as I understand it Pedagogical information pedagogical education also leaves out any kind of psychological developmental understanding of the child Which is rather strange when you think about it, isn't it? You're dealing with these young creatures and we don't learn about how they emotionally develop Now, why do I emphasize emotionally developed? Because the intellect Is not in the lead was in the lead of most of our lives and particularly children's lives are their emotions As a matter of fact, if you look at brain development itself The right side of the brain, which is the holistic emotional side of the brain develops faster and earlier than the intellectual left side of the brain Now most of education is designed to appeal to the left side intellectual side of the brain But in fact, the right side is the template and the edifice of Intellectual learning and knowledge and awareness is built on a foundation of emotional balance That's how human beings developed. We were emotional creatures long before we were intellectual creatures And that's how a young human being also develops That the emotional creatures before they're intellectual creatures So that schools need to pay a lot more attention to the emotional needs of children As opposed to simply through their intellectual concerns that we have By taking care of the emotions of children, we are ensuring that the intellect opens up And can absorb information and this is especially true Of the kids that are challenged by these so-called mental health diagnoses Which actually are not diseases at all They're problems in human development Because Development is everything See an acorn if I had an acorn in my hand right now That acorn has the potential to become a huge beautiful Leafy oak tree But it doesn't happen automatically I'd have to plant it in ground that can support it irrigation sunlight minerals Earth to dig its roots into Same with children. They need to the right conditions to develop This society Deprives them for all kinds of reasons of their developmental needs I'll be bold enough to mention my new book which will be out in the fall It's called the myth of normal trauma illness and healing in a toxic culture And the case I'm making is that this culture is toxic to human development The fundamental emotional needs of children Are fourfold number one the attachment relationship with the nurturing adults secure attachment relationships and given that Teachers are in an in local parentis position in you know in a place of parents. It also means secure attachment to the teachers But the child feels safe and understood and seen And heard and validated number one number two Rest from having to work to make that relationship work So the child's acceptance Should not depend on How pretty they are or smart they are Even how compliant they are They shouldn't have to work to be accepted and understood that doesn't let me tolerate behaviors That are disruptive. We have to address them. But the question is with what spirit? With what tone with what emotion? Do we do we address those behaviors? Believe me When I was in family practice I'd have adults in their 40s cry tears About something that a certain teacher said to them in a classroom The teacher had no idea what impact Their words had on that child They just said something offhandedly sarcastic 40 30 years later That person is crying in my office remember we call that I'm just telling you you have more power than you realize Because children are so vulnerable And even the hardened teenager is very vulnerable. So those are the first two needs The third need is for children to be able to experience all their emotions All their emotions Whether it's Joy or anger Sadness or grief And the fourth need is free play out there in nature Free play out there in nature Play actually is essential for healthy brain development There should be lots of play in the schools lots of play All animals play We have circuits in the brain that are designated for play. You know why because we need them for a healthy development cats play Lion cubs play bear cubs play dogs puppies play Human children need to play In our society, we've deprived them of play by burdening them with intellectual expectations before they're ready for it and also through the gadgetry This is designed to make kids addicted And I can't emphasize for you the already available scientific literature I can't emphasize it. I can't overemphasize it that shows that gadgetry Miss wires the brain So this is the daunting challenge because these are social trends that us teachers are not responsible for But you're made responsible for dealing with their impact With that challenge, I better stop talking because you only have 20 minutes or so left but even less I do wish I had more time to speak with you and answer your questions, but That's modern life So Maria, I'll stop here and let's take it from here. You can blame it on me. Okay. It's your fault Lots of comments coming in gabber uh people Picking up things that you're saying and appreciate appreciating them and um So just for a minute, I'll do a little bit of directions here What we're going to do in this session is take Questions gabber likes to see your face hear your voice And so if you have a question just go I think you probably all know this you've been on zoom a bit go down to reactions the bottom of the screen And just click on Any reaction I'll do it, but it's the hand raise reactions I don't see a hand raise in line, but let's just see it. Oh, there it is raise hand. See just like that Your hand and we'll try to watch and when that happens that the powers that be the Will will unmute you so you can ask your question I'll be watching I mean one comment only. This is may seem self-serving, but it isn't Those of you that are dealing with kids with attention problems. You should really read my book scattered minds Which will explain do you like you won't find anywhere else? I say that Advocately But all of you there's a book that I co-wrote called hold on to your kids Why parents need to matter more than peers now? That's not my work I helped to do with the writing, but it's a brilliant work for my friend and mentor dr Gordon Jungfeld who's the leading developmental psychologist in the whole world as far as I'm concerned He lives here in Vancouver. I say that totally advisedly and He lives here in Vancouver And Gordon understand children and children how children learn like nobody does So his website and that book and his dvds Are an unparalleled resource for anybody dealing with troubled kids I hope you'll listen to him. I hope you invite him to speak to you and I hope you'll do so many times because he's a Bottomless font of knowledge and information On chelby. Well, just we'll just I agree. We'll just ask For that link to Gordon new fell just Google no Gordon new fell, but maybe do you put in the chat here? Um, thanks for that Gabber all right, so um, I'm going to start from I think it comes in order of people asking the question So monique more has a question and money. Just wait for a minute. Well, and you can take you you monique can take your hand down now Okay, great. Thank you a few steps here unmute and We're good. We can hear you lower hand Hi, Gabor. Thanks so much For for sharing your wisdom this morning and we sure look forward to reading your your new book this fall um Many if not most of us are working with children that are are profiling With the complex concerns that you shared and um, could you give us some advice how to have those? Uh, or some recommendations how we can have those delicate conversations with our families on how to reduce the stress level of the home environment um, of course, we have those conversations around devices, but any um Recommendations how to have those conversations with the families we work with Yeah, thank you. So um Just a quick word about devices I would not all I would not allow a cell phone in the school I just wouldn't allow a cell phone. I think it's insane that kids carry their cell phones in their schools They need to relate to each other and to adults not the machines If I was advising parents, I tell them not to let them near these things for years and years and years Any more than you let them drink this is more addictive than drink is you know You have to realize that they're designed to be addictive By a neuroscientist It's called neuro marketing. They call it Now in terms of the conversation with the families What we have to realize here is that parents are doing their best They're doing their best But their best just like I did my best But my best was limited by the trauma in myself that I hadn't resolved So I was passing on my child to my kids without meaning to So are these parents But they're not bad parents. They're the best parents they can be So we have to approach them with a lot of compassion A lot of understanding of the challenge they're facing and they don't understand their kids and they they live in a culture Which is behavior oriented So they think the kid's got a behavior problem or they're glad to get a diagnosis because oh this explains why my kid is that way We have to really come alongside the challenges that the parents are facing and say like this is difficult for you What consider that the biggest influence on the child is the emotional environment in a home For which the parents have to take Responsibility So how can I help you Understand the child's emotional needs and what are your needs that need to be met? So you have to I'm giving a general approach that that that has to be understanding of the parents dilemmas and their likely traumatization That doesn't blame the parent that that delivers the information of the child's needs without making the parents feel blamed That's delicate because parents are very defensive And they very quickly believe that they're being criticized when there's no critical intent So the approach has to be very gentle Very compassionate that the more you can deliver that to the parents the more they will Approach the children that way. That's my general response One of the somebody just put into chat when people know better And have the resources and supports to do better They generally will yeah Yeah I have this conversation And just to complete that answer I'd begin in such conversation not by talking to the parents but by listening to the parents Say, what's it like for you? You know I start with that The parent needs to feel that you're there on their side And the thing is that that so many of people online with us now are teachers. They're not counselors. They're not therapists Yeah, well and That's okay, you know, look I've talked to a lot of teachers and and and I've seen it Some teachers Not because they heard this information from me or some any other code expert But because they intuitively connect with kids That I want to do a great job They don't even realize why they're doing a great job But they're doing a great job because they know how to smile at a kid how to get onto the kids level and say Hello, how are you today or just some little gesture of understanding and connection? You don't need to be a therapist You just need to be even being that no sort of connect with uh with the child Yeah, I wanted to say that Let me tell you about my my nephew or my grand uh my nephew in law. He's a teacher and um He's he told me once when he was a student teacher um Kids would sometimes come up to me and say hey mommy And he was it was a bit confused by that I said sam they're giving you the biggest possible compliment because they're talking They're they're regarding you as a nurturing figure He wasn't doing anything deliberately that's just his nature And they are so embarrassed when the children do that. I know that but they need not be embarrassed either No Yeah, Cindy um, and I was wrong about Removing your hand Just keep your hand even up until they remove it for you. If you know what I'm saying just come on screen, Cindy Thank you. I think I'm on mute um boy I always appreciate having a chance to listen to you go and when you said Zero tolerance zero evidence, you know, I I was like yes. Yes. Yes. And yet, you know If you look at some common practice in our schools We tend not to practice that very well And I guess I am thinking here and and certainly there's a very strong interrelationship between mental health and substance use and you you've spoken a lot on related to mental health and and Mental illness, but I'm I'm curious if you can just make some some comments That you think are helpful for folks and how we approach substance use as a you know And in substance misuse as an opportunity to to listen to pull kids closer and not You know, not further marginalize and or well, maybe I'll be quiet and I'll I'll turn it over to you if that's okay fair enough so All addictions whether they're substance related or not Are attempts to regulate the person's internal emotional states in other words, I'm experiencing distress and I'm going to engage in some behavior Which could include taking the substance to not to feel the distress that I'm experiencing So addictions and substance use problems are not Isolated problems. They're the manifestations Of a problem in that human being so when I work in the downtown east side all those years Every single one of my female patients. It means sexually abused as a child They had a lot of pain to escape from There's a reason Why our first nations communities suffer so much addictions because they're the most traumatized segment of the population I don't think I have to tell you why There's a reason why 30% of the people in jail in this country are origin or originals Indigenous people that make up 4% of the population 50% of the women in jail in this country are indigenous. They make up 4% of the population Why because they have the most pain of any other group in this society? so the My response to addiction is don't ask why the addiction ask why the pain So these kids that are engaged in substance use They're using it Either feel more alive Or to feel less pain Or to connect with their peers Why do they need that connection with the peers because they don't have the healthy connection with their adults? so in a very small nutshell Substance use is always an attempt to soothe internal distress So rather than blaming the kid or you know, this business of preventing drug use by telling kids that drugs are bad for them You might as well give it up the reason you might as well give it up because the kids who are listening to you Don't need the advice Because they're connected to you and the people who kids who need the advice they're not connected to they don't listen to you That's why they're using So the thing is to come alongside again and understand their emotional states and to appreciate what the drug is actually doing for them connection numbing peace of mind Who doesn't want that? You need to validate what they're looking for and help them other ways to find it That's it in a nutshell And people are saying cindy. They love that you said pull children in close. It's not time out. It's time in That's right. Yeah There's a canadian psychologist no longer alive. Unfortunately auto when Weninger wrote a book called time in parenting Ken can of supper He'll be unmuted in just a second and we'd love you to ask a question Thank you. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah Hi gabor. Thanks for uh your contributions Always great to hear your perspective. Um, I was going to follow it was something related to what cindy was asking but uh, you know for a long time The concern about sending the right message to youth about drugs and drug use has been a preoccupation And i'm wondering with the changes that have been happening in the past number of years with respect to dealing with the toxic drug crisis things like decriminalization safer supply Other initiatives that might be perceived as sending the wrong message I just wonder if you have thoughts on how school-based professionals can Sort of interface with youth to help them understand the kinds of shifts that are Taking place in the context of this of this drug crisis So you mean it might be confusing for a child to see drugs being decriminalized or made available to drug users Understand, is that what you mean? That's certainly been Assertions by some people that that these kinds of changes are sending the wrong message to youth Those are the assertions by people that don't know what the heck they're talking about They just haven't done the research. That's all. What can I help? I can't help them because I show them to the research literature The kids don't use drugs because there's a supervised injection site on these tastings Nobody says hey, hey, I'm at a party and I can start injecting heroin because in downtown east side Or or take crystal math or whatever because downtown east side. There's some facilities. No, that's not why kids get addicted or or or get Uh recruited into substance use. It's for the reasons that I talked about so the message that we give to kids I said it's useless The kids that listen to you They get it. They don't need the advice But I'm not saying don't talk about them But don't expect that giving the right advice will save the kids at risk The kids who are risk for drug use are the ones who are traumatized and troubled and and ill at ease in their own skins Giving them advice is not going to make any difference Nor will it make it more likely that they use drugs because We have some sane Relatively sane policies in the downtown east side. So there's no correlation between the two And I know can ask that they some people make that argument But the only people that make that argument that really haven't looked at the research thank you and we have um I'm just a few minutes left, but there are two people of question suki. Do you want to take it away? You need to unmute yourself. Yeah, I think heather has to unmute her either. Could you unmute suki? Just one minute suki. Sorry Um Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to hear you today again And I really would like you to to tell us more about healthy play across the ages in my belief adults need play as well Would you talk more about what you see is healthy play? Well, healthy play is Play that has no consequence For one thing. It has no agenda except the process of engagement So that it's not a question of who wins or who loses is the question of the fun that we're having So there's no agenda there healthy play is also Physical interaction without threat healthy play is simply Giving free play if you like to imagination Without evaluation healthy play is The sheer enjoyment of the other being that you're interacting with without wanting anything from them Those are the qualities of healthy play Now if you want more resources on play, I can again recommend Dr. Gordon Neufeldt And there's a late and great neuroscientist called yak panksep p and k s e p p We're actually distinguished That I mentioned earlier. There's a play circuit in our brain and he said brilliant writings on play But those are the qualities of of healthy play And I have to emphasize again as human beings be evolved out there in nature. We didn't involve in school rooms We didn't involve inside buildings. We evolved out there in nature. Healthy play is built into our DNA healthy play in nature So we should give kids lots of our opportunity to be out there interacting with nature Thanks, suki. Janet. We don't have time for another question. Maybe you could put your question in chat and and maybe Dr. Matic can respond to I'm sorry that we didn't have enough time for that again blame me and Gabber as always this is really I've been very helpful been watching the chat throughout people are picking up on what you're saying and for me It conjured up a teacher that I had who made a difference. It wasn't a counselor He was a literature teacher in grade 12 grade 10 Who said something one thing that made me feel seen and it actually changed my life So um, those are the people I hope everyone is thinking about right now and know that you are those people And maybe you don't know that you are but you are those people No, if I if I'm the same every once in a while every once in a while some guy with gray hair A woman with gray hair comes up to me and says you don't remember me But I was your student way back then and but and and and and just something you said made all the difference in the world and I'm sure that a lot of you who've been in the game old and long enough Well, I've had those kind of experiences. You have no idea how powerful you are And that goes both ways Depending on how you deploy that power Thank you. That's that's a really powerful connection to make. Gabber. We'll see you soon. Yes. Take care. Thank you. Bye.