 I have with me, Krishan Kivalo, Global CEO of Malan Low and Subbu, who is the India head of Malan Low, Lintas. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. A very interesting thing is that Krishan, you've spent more than 25, 30 years with the company and Subbu, you spent about 12 years. Fantastic. So, you know, it's one of those rare agencies where people really don't want to leave until they've retired. So, I really want to know from both of you, because you represent both the ends of the spectrum, global and Indian. What is it that really makes you such good employers? I'll start. Yeah. Next year is my 30th year with IPG. IPG is the holding company that owns Malan Low and Lintas and all the other agencies within the Malan Low network. And I have spent next year 30 years at two different agencies within the Republic, the Martin Agency and Malan Low. And I think what keeps me here is the constant sense of change. There's never a day where I'm bored. The problems are always different. We always have a big range of clients, especially in India. We'll have pharma clients. We'll have consumer package goods. You'll have clothing retailers. You'll have cars. And so, we might notice similar trends, but the problems are inherently their own. And for someone like me who is biggest fear is boredom, I feel like I hit the job lottery in choosing advertising. You said we don't look at the destination, okay? We're driven by purpose. And when you're driven by purpose, you don't know what the destination is. You keep running to keep it going. And what drives us is the passion that this place gives us. And we keep going. And we enjoy the current. We enjoy the process. And go running. That was very eloquently said. Take his answer. What are the biggest campaigns that you're betting on this year at Ken? For ourselves. Well, we know some of the answers already because we're halfway through the week. But, you know, Vim Black, I think, was a very good campaign that really challenged the gender stereotypes of dishwashing. I thought it was a very brave campaign. And I thought also that it was a very clever campaign to create a fake product that really spoke to really a really wonderful client that was willing to let us play with that foil and that sense of comedy, but also in a way that really underscored that there are some things that need to change. Some really important deep-seated things that need to change. Lola, our Spanish agency, did a wonderful campaign challenging the laws that women can't breastfeed in public. I think that was really inspiring and very good. What I love about this is I think often advertising isn't given enough credit for the ways we break stereotypes and the ways we change world for the better. I think too often advertising is seen as not as legitimate a business driver as other forms of business. And it's not as valued and respected. But the truth is we're taking on some pretty big stereotypes and we're taking on some pretty big initiatives that are ending and changing laws and broadening definitions of the way we look at humanity and look at each other. And I think the industry deserves to be more respected. Were you disappointed because none of the entries from India have been converted so far into wins? And like you said, couple of really nice entries there. Another interesting thing is that two entries were on pride. I mean, we've never really seen low lintas go all out on pride. And that's very, very interesting that we saw this year at Cannes. How was it? I'll let you answer specifically. I'm super competitive so I'm always disappointed. I like to win and I like to win. I hate losing as much as I, even more than I love winning. But I will say those campaigns have made a difference to those clients. And so while I think that there is a degree to which I value and respect the opinions of my peers, the truth is we know the business impact those campaigns have made and I'm very proud of the business impact those campaigns have made. And so winning here is, it's the cherry on top, but it's not the goal. Likewise, exactly what Kristen said. Yeah, there is disappointment that we haven't won here, but we have won in the marketplace and we have won with the clients. And more importantly, they have taken the brands forward. Okay. And that makes us, makes it very gratifying for us. One thing Malin Low overall is very well known for his return on creative investment and creative effectiveness. What is the other thing that you would want to be known for? Creating brand momentum, creating brand agility and being seen as a great steward of innovative brands. I think for what we've learned is the more innovative brands grow faster and the more innovative you are, the faster your growth. But sometimes people are afraid to allow their brands the elasticity of change. We want our brands to be constantly familiar and we think it's a risk. Sometimes when a brand shows a new side of itself or takes on a new point of view, but that can be stifling to the brand too. If it becomes so predictable, people fail to lose interest, they might recognize you but not care. And our job is to make sure that they care. And so I think it's really important that we be known as a great steward of innovation brands and agile brands. My answer is straight forward. I love a great pride in the brands that we had built, which I keep talking about. I love brands taking stands. You need to stick your neck out and stand for something. People may agree with it, disagree with it, it doesn't matter. But I have a clear point of view and this brand stands for something. And if we can make the belief of the brand, the belief of our audience too that we serve, that will be amazing. People need that because there is too much happening in people's lives. And to me today, once there was a time where we used to talk about the grand narratives, whether it's the authority, the churches or the states and all played a greater degree of role in telling people how to organize their lives. Because those are not. Those don't hold the same kind of influence today. And really powerful brands, big brands can come and play that role. And people look up to them, look up to them. When somebody says like, oh, this brand is a, I worship this brand. I look up to this brand. And if brands can come and play that meaningful role in helping people organize their lives and probably resolve some of the conflicts of their facing, I think it's a great place to be in. And when we, we have, we love building brands that way. And if you could do that, going forward, it will be amazing. And we've had a change of God at Malan Lola in Tarsan, India after Amir Jaleel and Virat left. And we have a very old hand, Subbu taking over from once to you. Wow. I don't know what you mean by that. I mean, experienced. So from once you to be at the, what is the advice that you really want to give him? Don't mess it up. I want you to, honestly, I mean, I think the world of you, and I think the world of you, because I think you're so strategic, you're so thoughtful, you have such a great way with words. I think the way you encourage your employees makes them want to run through walls for you. And I would say keep doing all of those things. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And also we've seen one change at Malan Lola in Tarsan. Earlier you experimented with this joint leadership model. Even at this point as well, there's nobody at the group CCO level. Is there a reason why you've done away with that post? Second thing, you had this joint leadership model at both your agencies, Garima, Azaz, Pratik and Sagar. Now you again come back to this one person leading each. Was that a strategic decision and why? It's a strategic decision and it's the right decision. Two things I'll tell you. One is I always believe there has to be clarity in leadership. There has to be one leader responsible for one thing. What I mean, one thing, it's the function. See, it's the leader's vision which people rally around and bring it alive, make it a reality and that's where it is. Because there has been confusion, there's no doubt about it and who is holding what, who is responsible for what and all. They clearly want that leadership clarity to be brought in. So that's the reason why we did Pratik here and Ram there. That's one. What's the other one you ask? Why did you decide to do away with the joint leadership? They are interlinked. To bring in clarity and greater focus. It's correct that way. The other thing connected with this is, see the idea of starting Malan Lintas for us is another agency. If we are creating another entity, it has to have a reason of its own. It should not be because it has to have its own distinct identity. It's like question the headed Martin agency. She still heads that. But there is, Martin is different from Malan. Very distinct personalities. Distinct identities. We are part of the same group but they have different personalities. Different identities. Which is what I want to drive, bring that clarity. This is for this and this is for this. Otherwise you just... It's okay to have one overall leader. Leadership like Kristen Heads thing or eye-heading it. But when it comes to the specific function, you need to have one leader for one function. In that case on a group leadership level, are you going to have a chairman or a CCO or group CCO? No. Like Amira? No. No. Okay. But on a global level you have Alex who is over arching. Global chairman? She is the global CEO now. He is the chairman. Alex is the chairman. Alex is the chairman and for the collective and then... That's why I said as business leadership, that's fine. Like the overall head of the company and the head of the group, that's fine. But here the responsibilities have to be very, very clearly given out. Because each one knows also. Because Loh Lintas has its own identity and now Malan Lintas has its own identity. Which is what we put out in the world. That. That means anything else you want to speak about? No. I'm good. I'm good. Thank you so much for your interest in this. I appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed the questions and thank you so much for being with me.