 Hello, hello, hello, and welcome. My name is Miron Khalili and we are DM 25, a radical political movement for Europe. And this is our regular live coordinating call. Today is March the eighth, that's International Women's Day, where we celebrate the achievements of women across history and across the world. But let's also use this occasion to look at how much work remains to bridge the gender equality gap and ensure equal rights and opportunities for all. I read a stat that said that at the current rate of progress, it will take 108 years to reach gender parity worldwide, particularly in the areas of economic and political empowerment. And also that there are only six countries, Luxembourg, Denmark, Belgium, and a couple of others that give women equal legal work rights as men. What's going on here? Let's sort it out with our panel from DM 25's coordinating collective, the board of our movement. First we'll hear from Juliana Zeta, who's the leader of our party in Germany, Nera 25. Then we'll open the floor to hear some personal stories across the panel. And then we'll ask our panel what issues they think DM 25 should be campaigning on that could make the most difference in the short term to close the gender gap. You out there, you, if you've got anything you want to say, any thoughts, rents, ideas, comments, concerns, questions, please put them in the YouTube chat and we will put them to our panel. And if you like this, please do subscribe. There are a hundred thousand of you subscribing so far and we're honored for the interest. Okay, let's kick it off, Juliana. Yes, thank you, Mehrhan, for the introduction. And first of all, happy International Women's Day to all women and everyone who's fighting the fight with us all along. And yeah, I think you've opened very well Mehrhan because indeed that was also a question that I asked myself while writing an article that we published today. You can, if you're interested, read it on our website. I asked myself like, what is with feminism and what is the development of women's equality during my lifetime alone? Because this is where I think everyone can have a full perception of what happened during their lifetime. And I have to admit that I failed to find the big steps forward. I think there were little fights that were fought and won but I think in terms of how it's going with equality, I think the number that you just said is just shocking but I think it also shows in the results we see worldwide because female make 50% of world population but very, very few of us are for example in positions of power. And I think one vice president here and just the representative there won't make the difference in the end. And I'm not going to get into the quality then of those representatives to be honest because this is another topic but I think it's really not enough. And so we have to think about what is the way forward to the liberation of females but also of all other groups that share just the same struggles as we do for centuries. And I think what is mostly important to me is to measure also the development by looking at the quality of life that women have worldwide. And it's really shocking to say but the quality of life for women is decreasing day by day at the current moment with every war that's taking place with the crisis we see with the invasion we see in Ukraine for example women are fleeing, women have to take care of the children alone. They have to leave their partners behind. They are looking into an uncertain future coming into countries where they don't know people they don't speak the language. It's something that my own mother went through by the way. So big hugs to her. I think she's my first role model when it comes to feminism. And just knowing that out of the position as a child I know that how much anxiety these women go through not knowing whether you can stay in the country or whether you have to leave and go back. You just don't know what's going to happen to you and your children. Also something I want to point out because it's also very urgent is that we see in the example of Ukraine that human traffickers are going to the borders and making promises to females for shelter in another country. It's a really, really dangerous situation for women in many countries, especially those with huge crises. But we can also not turn away from the fact that all these crises we have worldwide are intertwined with each other and that it won't be just about what every single one of us can do at this moment because we're running out of time in so many crises that we have when it comes to global warming when it comes to saving lives before wars escalate further. I think time is so urgent and this is why I made the bold title for my article that I think feminists should unite because I believe that feminism what we all have in common at least what I think when I think about my friends be it female or male who call themselves feminists is that we come from a position of compassion. And I think what we all want is to build a world and a system built on cooperation and solidarity. And for me, the opposite of it is the system that we have currently which is the system built on competition and profit. And I think it's also the basic reason why you don't find so many women in these structures. It's just because you will find them more in jobs which are social where they can make something good for somebody else. So until the political and the structures we have in society and in workplaces don't provide as an outcome to do something better. I don't believe that you will find many more women participating in that. Hence, for me, the conclusion is that we have to rethink our ambitions and our goals as feminists and to say it's not just about having better rights within this system but it's also about questioning whether we should build a new system and advocate for that like we are doing with the Green New Deal and so on. So yes, this is so far my opening statement and back to you, Mikha. Thanks very much, Juliana. Okay, let's hear from Maya Pelovich from Serbia. Maya. Well, I don't know where to start. First, Happy Eight March and yes, it is International Women's Day but I think it's a very, very sad Eight March and usually if I was, I'm now in Montenegro but if I was in Belgrade, I would be walking with my fellow friends. We have an Eight March in Belgrade and it is never a Women's Day March, if I could say because for me, this struggle against the patriarchy as I would call it is always a struggle against capitalism and it's always a socialist struggle. So whenever we do it in Belgrade, either if it's Women's Day or if it's the gay pride we always go together with workers, with unemployed, with the precariat, with the Roma's and we always go with other vulnerable groups of society that feel like the others in a way and in that way, I really feel very emotional in these days because of the war in Ukraine as I have in my life witnessed two wars. One was the war in Bosnia and the other one is the NATO invasion and the bombing of Belgrade and I have to say that when we talk about any kind of women's struggles, we have to talk about the struggle for the others, for the ones that will suffer most with this war and that's why I will not talk about personal story of me being in a way oppressed as a woman because I think at this point, I'm very privileged, white middle-class women sitting in a non-war zone. I want to talk about all the people and all the vulnerable people that will be struck by this terrible war that is happening. Of course, the first ones that will be struck are of course the women and children that are now crossing the borders and going into completely unknown territories. Together with them, also, we witnessed a lot of racism on the borders so we also see a lot of people that because of the color of their skin are not able to cross the borders because they are not as some Western media has called them, belonged with blue eyes. Also, I'm very, very in a way, I have a very big problem with the way the West dealt with the refugee crisis when these people that were crossing the borders had a different color of skin. So this racism we have to talk about. We also have to talk about the class struggle. We have to talk about people that do not have the money to go from Ukraine because I know a lot of families. I'm here in Montenegro and I'm in contact with a lot of Ukrainian families that are not able to, because of money issues to cross the borders. We also have to talk about the ones that will stay, the males, because I think that patriarchy is also hitting the males that are staying in the country in Ukraine and that are in the Western media being perceived as brave people, brave fighters, Ukrainian fighters. And some of these brave people actually do not want to be brave at all and do not want to kill other people but want to also flee the country and they cannot do it because the borders are close for males to leave the country. So I think that at this point, talking about women, we should talk about all of these others. We should also talk about some of the Russian people that are also being in a waste truck by this war. Some of my Russian friends, artists that are being banned to participate in activities because they are Russians. I, as a Serb, have had these kinds of problems being after the war called Pescius. Like my grandfather was actually one of the founders of the partisan movement here in Montenegro and he was in a camp in Italy and it happened to me on the Venice Biennale that they were expecting for me to be in some kind of way. And I had this Milosevic person thing on my back for a long time. So I think also the Russian people, the ones that are against the war and that are against Putin will have their own struggle after this war ends when it ends. So I think that this dividing of the world, this Cold War attacks that we're witnessing, that is happening and this again, dividing of the East and West, a satanization of a nation at one side and at the other side, of course, this terrible war in a country that cannot fight back. And I think that these are terrible times and we should at this time think of the others and after the war is over, think of also the others that will continue to suffer after this war ends, that will be what I want to say. Thank you, Maya. Well said. Julia, Julia Moore from the UK. Hello, good evening. We really thanks, Miran. Happy International Day, everybody. A couple of thoughts on this day. A couple of books I thought I'd mention that have influenced me through the decades that I've lived through, which have been interesting decades of change in terms of sex discrimination with the introduction of legislation. I'm talking about UK specifically here and obviously with the EU influence of legislation as well. But for those of you who have not already familiar with the book, the first text I talk about is the standard reference texts for feminism and the attitudes of patriarchy and structural changes. Kate Millett's section politics for anybody that hasn't, isn't familiar with that. A very good read, an uncomfortable read, but it stands the test of time because if you read it through different decades, it becomes different things. You can see the reference points of where things have changed and where things repeat through structure and history. So I would certainly recommend that, as I say, it's not an easy read, it's not a comfortable read, but it is one of the reference texts and that is a great read. Coming a bit more up to date, I think many, many people are familiar with the text called invisible women and the strapline title for that is exposing data bias in a world designed for men. And it is a fantastic case by case study of the designed world that we all live in, but where women and vulnerable groups are systematically discriminated against and have their lives made more difficult than they need to be from everything from the Finnish case study, everything from pavements which are designed for incorrect wits for women or anybody pushing prams, which have now become equipment for disabled people who are using pavements, et cetera, and that sort of civil engineering that's not keeping up with the test of time, but proportionally affecting women who are walking, we know about lighting, keeping women safe and keeping everybody safe. And at what point does the case that's brought about by women occupying physical public spaces becomes a safety issue for all and how that narrative needs to be looked at? But one of the biggest chapters that I think you've most interested in invisible women is the way that medical technology tests drugs disproportionately on women and therefore women don't get equal treatment within medical sectors, et cetera. It's a fantastic textbook. So just two examples that I've extrapolated for that. So for those of you who want to do a little bit of reference reading to understand repeated structural failure, vulnerability, how vulnerability is repeated, et cetera, certainly those two books I'd recommend. And I think we're gonna come back in the discussion about where we think DM 25 ought to go in terms of what we do as a progressive organization. And maybe I'll come back with that, but I would say always confidence building in terms of female education. We know that where education is improved, then females health improve, and that indirectly and directly finds its way into economic improvement. We're not gonna talk about growth because that in itself is a new economic topic that we need to discuss, but certainly improvement criteria and quality indicators and life chances are improved when young women remain longer in an education environment. And that's true in developed, in Western economies. It's true in developing nations. And it is one of the universal truths and maybe as a progressive organization, that's where we put our energies. I think that's it for now for me, Miran. Thank you. Thank you, Julia. And yes, we'll be returning to those issues what DN25 should be campaigning on. And you out there listening to us, if you've got thoughts in the chat about what could be the most pressing issue to tackle with regards to gender equality, then please mention them in the chat and they'll feed into our discussion. Ivana Nenanovic from Serbia. Hi, thank you. And happy Women's Day to everybody. As Maya said, as I am from Serbia, but I was born in Yugoslavia and my upbringing was in this socialist environment, equality of genders was a given. And for me, growing up from the perspective of a child, it was quite simple on the 7th of March, we would make presents for our mothers. It was handcrafted and write little notes. And basically we would praise our mothers for being our heroes. And when you look at it, it is part of the patriarchy. And as a child you grow up and you adopt this that mother should be the pillar of the house. She goes to work, she cooks, she cleans, she takes care of the children and her husband and so on. And that kind forms you, right? But of course the patriarchy in Serbia is strong in the family, but in the system or at least it appeared to be so, it was equal. And only when I got involved with the DMM war, I came across these quotas and some discussions that I never came across before, especially because my background is in the theater. And in theater, there is no this burden of quotas and gender equality because literature is not equal. There are more male roles than female roles to begin with. But it's the theater, what I'm trying to say is the theater is much more loose environment. So these rules and restrictions don't apply. Patriarchy of course creeps on you. But what I think if we are talking about also what DMM as a movement should do is to show how the politics, which is normally restricted for men, could be also inviting environment for women as well. And I guess that this panel also proves that. I would say that it's a matter of difference of energies, feminine and masculine, and they both need to exist. It's just a matter of the balance. And something that I would like to try to emphasize is that empathy and emotions, which are all usually connected with women, are in politics not welcome because politics are supposed to be this strict and professional and emotional as business. So when we see women in politics, we see them being basically worse than men because the point is not to take the power out of the hands of men and put it in the hands of women. It's about de-structuring this power. Thank you. Thank you, Iván, some very important points made there. Who is up next? Dishan, Dishan Paejevic from Montenegro. Yes, I couldn't agree more with you, Iván. I have to highlight that. And as I always joke, we need to get rid, I'm not joking with this part. I will come to the joke. We need to get rid of identity politics for purpose of seeing Angela Merkel or Margaret Thatcher as woman. And then I always say, I'm much more of a woman than them. So it's not about what are your organs because even on the biology side, but let me not start with the gender theory because that's my field. It's not that clear. So I will start narrowly and then expand towards the wider context. I will start with my own personal story. So I've been working with, for some time now, LGBTQ organizations, trans organizations. And I did my master's in psychology of intercultural relations where I did my thesis on sexism, among other things. And I've held many lectures on ecofeminism, on total liberation theory, on trans rights and similar. Now to come to the point, I'm also a gender non-binary man from Montenegro. So I suffered greatly under this system because it was expected for me to behave in certain ways and to replicate certain patterns that I don't want. So I want to show sadness and other negative emotions that are not just anger, which is the only negative emotion allowed for men to show. I don't want to act as a promiscuity person and to have multiple girlfriends or whatever. I don't want to eat meat or to always act tough because all of these things are strictly male gender roles. So I want to emphasize how we all suffered greatly under these power dynamics. Woman, trans and non-binary people and men. Yes, you heard me correctly, men. Because to indoctrinate boys into the rules of patriarchy, we force them to feel pain and to deny those feelings. So we need to acknowledge that men fight wars, end up in prisons, disproportionately show less emotions and commit more suicides. This is not because they are inherently evil or they're something naturally wrong with them or because feminist oppress them or some other conspiracy, crazy theory. It's because of the patriarchy. So I'm not men's rights activists, as they call them, I'm a feminist. I'm feminist for gender equality and I'm feminist for the 99%. It's not black and white. Men are not just aggressors towards women. We need to make conscious that patriarchy affects us all and that all of us are sexist towards the femininity in a more or less degree. So femininity in ourselves and in the others. The sexist system is aggressors towards this since femininity is intervened in all of us. Finally, we need to highlight the role, not just women, but also, sorry, not just men, but also women play in perpetuating and sustaining patriarchal culture so that we will recognize patriarchy as a system women and men support equally, even if men receive more rewards from that system. Dismantling and changing patriarchal culture is work that men and women must do together for the 99% of us. And before some of you are tackling the comments for being men or whatever and talking about women role, let me say that this is a quote by Bell Hooks, black woman outer. So let's finally work all together towards dismantling this identity politics and dismantling patriarchy at the same time. Thanks. Thank you Dushan and please be gentle to Dushan in the comments. You did, you did Maya from Berlin. Yeah, so I was going to talk about the tradition of Mother's Day. I remember this from when I was small that we too were supposed to create little gifts for our mothers in kindergarten and at school. And my mother was very adamant about not wanting any of these because for her Mother's Day was associated with the Nazis because here in Germany, I mean, of course Mother's Day comes from a feminist in the US and then in Germany was primarily the flower shops that were promoting it at first. But then the big breakthrough for Mother's Day was when Hitler arrived in power and he really wanted to encourage women to be mothers for most. So he turned Mother's Day into a bank holiday. It is no longer a bank holiday that was abolished after the war, except in Berlin. And then on this day, he gave out like awards like an iron cross except for mothers. A bronze cross for those that had four children, a silver cross for those that had six children and a gold cross for those that had eight children or more. And this is just such a vulgar, disgusting practice that my mother did not want anything to do with that and they always had to destroy any gifts that they made us create in class and be sure not to come home with them. But for all of this supposed tradition of honoring mothers and women, Germany is still failing at the basics. So we still have a lot of feminicides. And also when it comes to sexual violence, it's still a very common current topic. Some years ago when there was this big wave of refugees coming from Syria, some people try to make it look like the problem of sexual violence against German women is mainly coming from Syrian or other Arab men. And that was a complete lie because we see the problem now with so many Ukrainians, mainly women coming into the country. And here in Berlin, the volunteers had to stop matching any women with a private host because there were so many cases of abuse of men expecting sexual favors in exchange for hosting refugee women. And these are German men here in Berlin. So it's really a huge problem. And I think that this is something that urgently needs to be tackled. Thank you. You did a couple of comments here from the chat. This one's for Mayer, I think. I love that you brought up that men also suffer from patriarchy too. True, it's not something that you often hear. I believe the only way to help reduce the discrimination against women is a global basic income for women from birth to death with no limits. And something for Dushan. Most of what this nice man is saying was said long ago by second wave feminism, but the way trans rights activists treat us women today is shameful, so aggressive and sexist. So that's a part of that debate which is going on between trans rights and women's rights. Who is ex-Berald, Berald Madra from Turkey? Thank you, Mehran. Yes, we always celebrated this day with joy, but today it was a little bit sad. You know, we didn't have that joy because of this war going on in Ukraine. We were anxious, actually. I think since my childhood, after the Second World War, I have witnessed several local wars in the region and since many years, ongoing tragedies of migrations in and out of Turkey, in which always women suffered more than all the other people. And you know, there are countless human rights and freedom of expression violations. And I'm really sad to say that there is a merciless feminist issue in Turkey. Several thousand women are killed by their husbands, brothers or father, even fathers. I will not mention the religious sex, child abuse and pedophilia, et cetera. One of the last tragedies was Serebrenica massacre. I had the honor of making the exhibition of Andrei Darkovic about Serebrenica victims, and I was embraced by Serebrenica mothers. It was a very, very important moment for me. I think I have seen enough for a lifetime in this European and Middle East region. It seems it is still not enough. Now we see Ukraine women suffering, but I must now also mention my Russian friends who are also suffering. And I remember that after the collapse of the Soviet world, many Ukrainian, Russian and Moldavian women had to come to Turkey to work in domestic jobs. So we have seen their tragedy because of the economic collapse in their countries. But what gives me hope and strength is the resistance of women and in particular contemporary women artists. In all their multidisciplinary works, a clear and unbiased vision towards democratic transformation. Freedom of expression and communication, respect to pluralism, human and gender rights issues, responsibility on ecological problems, development of public awareness are in their works. So we should look to their works and get from these works and inspiration. Today, in many cities of Turkey, there were large crowds opposing to all the problems in Turkey. And they were also very colorful scenes with local women who came with their beautiful local fashion. But in Istanbul, the police has interfered to the meetings, but the women did not stop. I have the hope that there is an enormous awareness about women's equality and position in Turkey. So I think the women will have the victory at the end. Thank you. Thank you, Baral. Let's bring back Dushan Payevich. He'd like to respond to his detractors. Now, just a quick comment basically that we have to be aware of certain cultural differences when we talk about women's rights as well. For example, we in Montenegro face something that's unimaginable for many of the people on this call, which is selective abortions. People, when they reveal agenda of the fetus in their belly, if it's a woman, they abort her. That happens. It is estimated around 1000 times per year in Montenegro. So when we talk about feminism and when we talk about women's rights, we have to acknowledge that it's much more than a rhetoric, it's much more than narrative, it's much more than who pays a drink or whatever. It's literally about lives and about whether someone is born or not. And in just four months in Montenegro, we had three feminicides. So killing of women that were killed only for being women, which is a lot, a lot, a lot for a country with just a bit more than 600,000 citizens. So this is my cultural perspective that I wanted to bring in for us to see how many different players and levels of this system there are. Thank you, Dushan, for your nuanced response. Maya Panovich. Thank you, Dushan, for this, because you just reminded me, my friend actually did a campaign on this issue that I think also that people cannot believe that it's happening in the 21st century and she did a campaign called Unwanted. And I think that, I think, because we're talking a lot about class issues also while talking on all of these issues. And this is an interesting point. While she was doing this project, she was actually, she actually found out that most of the women that decided to do these abortions of female babies were actually women from the upper middle class with a lot of money because at that point they had to go to other countries to do the very expensive test that costs about 800 euros to see if the baby is male. And that is, Dushan, precisely what you were talking about when you were saying that the question of patriarchy is also sometimes in the hands of women also because these were very highly educated women that were giving money and doing these abortions because they wanted to have themselves also male children. And this is also a mechanism of patriarchy that we should pay attention to also. And in that sense, that's actually what I wanted to say that we always have to reflect on our own cultural position, of course, because we all come from different cultural backgrounds. And in that way, our fight against patriarchy will be different, of course. But I think that one fight against patriarchy that we can say that is the same for all of us is the fight against the worst thing that patriarchy brings and that is military intervention. And I think that in all cultures, we can say that fighting against any kind of military interventions and in banning any kind of military interventions. At this point, I mean Putin's intervention on Ukraine, but I also think of all of the NATO invasions that happened during the last 20 years, that one of which I witnessed myself in my country. So that's the intervention that I would suggest. And the only one that I think at this moment can be, in a way, fought in all cultural backgrounds. Thank you, Maya. A couple of comments from the chat. In a system that's aimed at dividing us and pitting us against one another, the most radical activity, one can undertake is to love, understand and collaborate with others. And some appreciation for some of the comments that you guys have said. So I wouldn't bother flattering you by reading this out, but good. Okay, why don't we move a little bit to what DM-25 can actually do in terms of what other concrete areas that we could campaign on to address some of these issues that we're talking about. I mean, I really appreciate all of the personal stories. And I think it's given a very good context to this discussion. But if there's specific ideas, like some Maya friends who are watching in the chat on things that you think would advance this cause in the short term, then please speak up. Eric, have you got a take on this? I can do. I'm sure by the end of the sentence I will. So essentially what I wanted to share is a bit of a personal story with possibly like a way forward as a sort of learning point at the end. A few years ago, I participated in a month long workshop in Poland, which was mostly populated by millennials and people from generation Z, Zoomers, like myself, the millennial part. And the conversation, although we were split mostly, Medway was a 50-50 group, there was a dynamic that developed halfway through the month whereby repeatedly some women, especially from the US, would speak out about some of the men in the group that they were speaking too much and so on. And often it was the case. So this part is good that this happened. You could see that people were addressing an issue of men taking up too much space and so on, not maliciously, but still doing so. However, what ended up being the case was a sort of environment where all men, regardless of whether they were part of the group that was speaking too much or not, simply stopped speaking altogether because they were afraid of being seen as part of the problem. So there was this very one-sided atmosphere that developed where the issue wasn't addressed. It was just put under the carpet, if you like, and people were just suppressed into creating this kind of outward image of women's empowerment that women are speaking, but essentially becoming suppressed themselves. And that's together with a bit the terminology that we use, the language, the way that the topic was addressed, altogether, both the atmosphere and the way that the topic is broached, especially by the left, created the very one-sided and elitist kind of approach to the topic. And this is of course something that we on the left suffer from in general, this very intellectual approach to issues which alienates huge parts of society from discussing it and approaching it and regardless of whether they would agree or not with us to feel part of the discussion. And when somebody doesn't feel part of the discussion, they are much more likely to reject it as a point of principle rather than because they actually believe so, just simply because they don't feel part of it. So what I think we need to be quite much better at than many of our cohorts and colleagues on the left is the way in which we discuss these things, the kind of terminology that we use to de-intellectualize the discussion around gender inequality, and also the atmosphere to make it much more inclusive as many people have already said today to make it more holistic and a kind of societal issue more broadly that involves all of us and we can all be part of the solution regardless of our educational level or our gender for that matter. That's something that I think we need to lead the way on because in general, there is an issue in that area. Thank you, Eric. Julia, Julia Morales, bring you back in. Thank you. Yeah, pulling some of the threads together. What we're discussing here now is what a progressive movement and maybe with DiEM25 leading that can do. And I think what is not picking up fast enough is the bringing together of what we might call now not just men and women in order to forge a new direction in terms of policymaking, social policymaking that isn't on one power structure trying to improve in itself a patriarchal way the improvements for another vulnerable group in society but actually get the, we would say 20 years ago we would get the two genders working together to understand their relative positions better but as Dushan is saying, we're now in an era of a much more complex gender, sorry, identity politics and what we're looking at is improving our physical public spaces, our economic models for the benefit of us living as human beings in that same shared space. And I think that is something that a progressive movement can build up momentum more quickly. And I think we've been very slow to do that. We have a tendency in discussion circles to go back on to what we call very old fashioned first stage feminism and through the various different evolutions that in carnations that that's taken. And I really think a progressive movement ought to be doing some very, very good radical thinking about getting groups working together. We are talking across a class divide here across racial divisions and navigating through that rather than still a fairly old fashioned approach I think which just looks at the two sexes and that's why we have a repeat of power structures which then do not improve. And if I can just bring a very UK specific in here actually one UK example and one international example for those of you who know anything about UK media there's been a very long running radio show called Women's Hour on Radio 4. Now it's been running since the dawn of time and it's been a part of some extremely important campaigning issues which have led in themselves to legislation. It is an incredibly important part of UK cultural history. I have always, always objected to the fact that it's been called Women's Hour because it places those issues over there in a category where has the image of post-war women sitting down with a cup of tea at half past 10 in the morning being allowed their tea time to listen to women's issues. There are not women's issues, there are issues which inadvertently affect women but are a responsibility for policy makers, male, female however people are identifying. That's a UK example, an international example is for anybody who here may join or anybody out there looking. The Women's Institute movement which is now a global organisation where women can join local groups and find solidarity and comradeship and do arts and crafts, et cetera, et cetera. Also an organisation which internationally has been very important in running campaigns and daring to put their voices heard where policy makers and governments wouldn't listen to the voices of women and by their sheer numbers have managed to get some very high profile issues in themselves in a progressive era when nobody else was daring to talk about domestic violence. For example, domestic violence that affect men. It's the Women's Institute that were bringing up the discussion about that about treating it as an issue not specifically something which affects the two genders. So I think we're looking at really we ought to be leading the way with a much more sophisticated attitude and narrative which incorporates the things that we've spoken tonight if we are going to improve power structures with reference to the cultural relativism that Dushan and my other colleagues here have spoken about tonight and confidence building through the education systems for specifically now for women and young girls being confident enough to feel that they are entitled to take part in their civic lives and that they can speak freely without fear of violence or intimidation. There's a lot for us to do, but we can do it. Thank you very much, Julia. Quick comment from the chat from Ed Gardo. In Italy, it's really difficult to overcome these from Italy. It's really difficult to overcome the patriarchy which is still in charge even in a softer way. Tradition and the past are still very strong even on the female side. Amir, Amir Kiye who hasn't spoken yet, our policy coordinator based in the hey, go for it Amir. Thank you, Mehran and good evening to everybody. Just a quick small update as viewers and members are aware that we ran an all member vote regarding the issue of nuclear engine whether it's green or not, whether it's sustainable or not and 75% of our members voted no, that is not sustainable, that is not green. And so we're gonna be proceeding with a campaign on the EU taxonomy regulations targeting both gas and nuclear energy. Again, as was mentioned early on and adding to Julia tying up all the threats is the global climate crisis is definitely disproportionately affecting women. And so this is one of our campaigns that we can see there's a link there to that. As well that Maya mentioned the war and the ultimate symbolism of patriarchy if you like as a war industry and so forth. And we've also recently launched and are working on a grassroots campaign towards peace and end to wars. You might have seen the hashtag No More Wars, DM25 on social media. And one of the first steps people can take out there is to sign our petition, dm25.org forward slash peace. There's more coming from the grassroots campaign on this issue. Thanks. Thank you, Amir. And we're coming close to the top of the hour here. It's been an interesting discussion. Perhaps Juliana, unless someone else would like to speak perhaps Juliana would like to wrap up since she kicked it off. Juliana. Yes, thank you. I think in terms of what we can do as a movement which is I think a crucial part of the discussion for us is connecting the way we function as DM. Like we are connecting that with every topic. It has to do with something that Dushan touched and Maya touched upon that the different perceptions are really important to understand when we talk about any topic, but when it comes to feminism. I mean, I am kind of this, I'm living in Germany but I know also very well the culture I'm coming from and I know that there are opposing sides and that there are very different perceptions on where we stand even as women. Might even, some might even reject that there are places where female have not the same rights like in their area where they live. So as upon European movement, I think having those different perceptions out of different countries is something that we can very well connect and we can. Oh, Juliana, I think your internet died. Are you back? I'm back. Okay, I'm sorry. Go for it, go on. I don't know where I left off but essentially I wanted to say that we are a group of people that is diverse and so I think we have a good chances to produce goals for activists as a movement that are inclusive, including all the groups that could be left out to say. So I think this is something that we can provide as a diverse movement with people out of so many different countries. I think this is reflected in our policies already but it's something that we can reflect even more in our campaigns, I mean, looking forward. So yeah, this is something little I like to add and thank you for this discussion everyone. Couldn't agree more with all of you and give it back to Michael. Thank you very much, Juliana. Thank you to our panel and you out there for your comments and thoughts. If you would like to join DM25 and instead of just observing, actually get working on making some of the stuff that we've been talking about a reality then the web address is dm25.org slash join. We've got grassroots campaigns. We're gonna be running in elections this year. We've just founded a party in Germany. We're gonna found a party in Italy. So things are happening, things are moving at DM25. Please join us and address issues like the gender gap and some of the other things we've been discussing today. That's it from us. Take care and see you at the same time, same place.