 Hi, Chair Kincaid and board members. Can you hear me okay? This is the recording secretary. You're loud and clear, Patty. Excellent, I fixed my headset. So hopefully no echoing. Everyone is here and we can start when you're ready. Great. All right, I'll ask all the board members to turn their cameras on please. It's like we're just missing board members sharing. Is that correct as far as on camera? There he is. Senator, is there any water? We'll sit. Super, welcome. Okay, well I'd like to call to order the City of Santa Rosa Design Review Board regular meeting noticed and agendized for today, February 18th, 2021 at or after 4.30 p.m. And here we are. Before we get into the agenda, let's memorialize why we're here in this setting. Due to the provisions of the governor's executive orders, N-25-20 and N-29-20, which suspend certain requirements of the Brown Act and the order of the health officer of the County of Sonoma to shelter in place to minimize the spread of COVID-19, the design review board will be participating via Zoom webinar. Members of the public have been offered many opportunities to join us as well through Zoom. They can watch us live stream through multiple sources. They have had the chance to call in to make public comment ahead of the meeting. They will be afforded public comment during the meeting. And with that, I will ask Patty for a roll call, please. Let the record reflect that all board members are present. And thank you, Patty. Item number two on the agenda is approval of the minutes. We have minutes from February 4th, 2021. Any board members have any amendments to those minutes? Okay, seeing none, we can place those into the record. I am going to swap item numbers three and four on the agenda. I'm gonna go ahead and read the board business statement of purpose ahead of the general public comment. So the statement of purpose per zoning code chapter 20-52.030F, project review. The review authority shall consider the location, design, site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties and the city in general. Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan, any applicable specific plan, applicable zoning code standards and requirements, consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines, architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements, i.e. city policy statements and development plans. So that's the purview of this board. And so before I open up public comment, just wanted to say that this public comment period is on items germane to this board in general, items before us this evening that are scheduled items will have their own public comments period when those items appear. So at this time I will open up public comment. Public will have three minutes each and we will start now. Sorry about that, I was muted. I don't see any raised hands for public comment. Okay, we'll give it a moment and then we'll close it up. It looks like we don't have anybody wishing to speak. Great, thank you, Patty. We'll go ahead and close the general public comment period and move on with our agenda. Item number five is board member reports. I will start off even though it's late in the agenda and welcome our newest and returning board member, Mr. Michael Birch. Clap, clap, clap. Mr. Birch, would you like to give us a self introduction? Yeah, great to be back, as they always say, right? Somehow you guys managed to make this harder instead of easier since I left. So compared, just for what it's worth, this is crazy. But I do like, if I could get in the center square, I would feel like Paul Lind. So if I could manage a way to do that, anyone under 40, that's a game show reference from the 70s. But no, thank you. I'm really excited to be back and participate and help. And Scott, thank you for chairing and hearing you read the statement of purpose, really brought back a lot of memories and looking forward to being a part of this group. I've heard nothing but good things about where the board sits right now and what we're doing and the projects that continue to come forward, even in a strange time and the level of activity that I see, it is interesting just quickly, I'll say to see the last projects that I sat on previously, all coming to fruition now and being built. So I know sometimes this sounds like it seems like a long process to get these things done. But with the little capsule in time that I have, it's cool to see Santa Rosa grow and expand like sourdough starter, right? So there's your pandemic reference. So thanks and I am looking forward to being part of the team here. Well, the team is happy to have you and embrace you as a board member. And Michael did not mention, but he is a former chairman of the board. So he's boots on the ground right now, but we'll see what the future holds. Okay, any other board member reports with that we'll move on to department reports. And I see interim deputy director, Bill Rose is on the screen. Welcome Bill and take it over. Chair Kincaid, thank you members of the board. It's nice to be here. Nice to see you all. And Michael, welcome back to the board. Chair Kincaid, if I refer to board member Birch as chair Birch, please don't take that as an insult to you, it's just habit. So it's great to have Michael back. I think it was, I was counting, it was I think 10 seconds in Michael and you had all the board members smiling, which is what I recall you do at many times. So wonderful to have you back. No board member reports. So I think, well, one, we still do have the potential for appointments still with the board. So we'll keep, I have no news on that right now, but we'll keep the board up to speed on that as we have that information. So without any further ado, I'll turn it back to you, Chair Kincaid. We can proceed. Thank you, Mr. Rose. Okay. Item number seven is statements of abstention by board members. Any board members needing to abstain from item number 8.1 or 8.2? Okay. Seeing none, we will move on to our scheduled items. Item 8.1 is a public hearing for major design review, good onward Inc. cannabis facility, located at 3192 June of per avenue, file number PRJ18-082. And we have planner Connor McKay to give us a staff presentation. And I suspect that the applicant has their presentation ready as well. So with that, I'll turn it over to you, planner McKay. Thank you, Chair Kincaid. Yes, I am here to present the good onward Inc. cannabis facility major design review project located at 3192 Juniper Road. One sec. Okay. So I could not get the slideshow to be full screen without showing that weird presenter view. So this is what we were going to be working with today. So this is the good onward Inc. cannabis facility project is a commercial cannabis facility consisting of manufacturing levels one and two that'd be non-volatile and volatile manufacturing, commercial cultivation of 5,001 square feet or more and cannabis distribution land uses. On January 14th, the planning commission adopted the mitigated negative declaration for the project and approved the requested conditional use permit. And tonight the design review board will provide design review for the project. The project is located at a site that is currently operating and developed as a construction storage yard and staging area Juniper Avenue in the Southwest quadrant of the city of Santa Rosa. And across Juniper Avenue to the West is County jurisdiction and is located outside of the city's urban growth boundary and severe of influence. Some neighborhood context, we have industrial land uses to the North and the East, a single residential development to the South and a residential development across Juniper Avenue to the West. Brief project history, the initial study mitigated negative declaration or ISM&D circulated for its 30 day public review period on July 31st, 2020. And like I mentioned previously, the planning commission adopted the mitigated negative declaration and approved the major conditional use permit on January 14th, 2021. The project site is located in the general industry general plan land use designation. And I have included some applicable goals that are related to the project on this slide as well. The project site is located within the general industrial zoning district. The required land use entitlements were approved by the planning commission. Planning commission also approved a parking reduction of 32.5% after making the required findings. Here we have existing site photos of what is currently present at 3192 Juniper Avenue. This is the approved site plan. The planning commission approval does lock in this site plan for the project. The project includes the construction of a new warehouse of approximately 21,000 square feet, which triggers the requirement for major design review. And here are the proposed elevations for each side of the new warehouse. This slide shows the proposed materials for the new warehouse. The materials do incorporate similar industrial style design that currently exists on the project site and is located in the surrounding area as well. This is a rendering of the proposed street view from Juniper Avenue looking east towards the project site. As you can see, the project includes frontage improvements, including landscaping. The existing CMU wall is eight feet tall and would remain to screen onsite activities, including parking spaces. The landscape plan is outlined here with some additional detail in this slide, identifying the various species of plants and trees that are proposed as part of the landscaping plan. These plants and trees are drought tolerant and also provide a attractive onsite experience for employees to use during their lunch breaks and other break times. The project site would be completely closed to the public though. I've included some select design guidelines that are applicable to the project. The project has been designed in condition to mitigate noise and light spillover. The project is required to comply with the city's noise and light ordinances. So here are the required findings for the approval of major design review. So the project is indeed consistent with the general plant land use policies and zoning code standards and is consistent with the city's design guidelines. The newly constructed warehouse has been designed to emphasize compatibility with nearby uses. Windows have been included on the design of the new warehouse on every side and the new warehouse design also incorporates horizontal color variation. The landscaping has been designed to provide positive outdoors green spaces for employees. The proposed design and layout of the project would not interfere with the use and enjoyment of the surrounding neighborhood and that the site plan adequately provides onsite circulation and the existing CMU wall would screen onsite activities from the public right of way and surrounding properties. Additionally, the proposed site landscaping provides further aesthetic benefit from on and off site perspectives. The architectural design of the proposed new warehouse is compatible with the visual character of the surrounding neighborhood and that the warehouse design incorporates industrial style elements that conform with the structures both currently existing on site and in the surrounding area. The development would not be detrimental to public health and that the project complies with building and fire codes and includes the proposed widening of Juniper Avenue to maintain adequate site access. Finally, the project has been reviewed in compliance with the California Environmental Quality Act and that an initial study mitigated negative declaration was adopted by the planning commission which identifies and mitigates potentially significant impacts to a less insignificant level. As I mentioned, the environmental review for the project consisted of the preparation of initial study mitigated negative declaration with associated mitigation monitoring and reporting program. There was a neighborhood meeting held on January 16th, 2019 and had three attendees. These attendees opposed candidates due to concerns of security risks and crime. I also received an email earlier today from a neighbor who had concern regarding the width of Juniper Avenue and its capacity to accommodate the land use. They also expressed concern regarding usage of private roadways as a result of the proposed project and I responded that the project includes the widening of Juniper Avenue and that illegal usage of private roadways would not be part of the proposed project. Staff review, the initial design for the warehouse consisted of no windows on the southern elevation which is adjacent to the residential land use that exists there. So staff requested that they modify this design to include windows which is what was shown previously. With that, the Planning and Economic Development Department recommends that the design review board by resolution approve the design review of the Good Onward Inc. Cannabis Facility Project which involves the operation of existing buildings and a proposed new 21,000 square foot warehouse consisting of the following cannabis uses at 3192 Juniper Avenue. I am available to answer any questions and I believe Peter Stanley from Archeologics is present to provide an applicant presentation. Yes, the applicant team has the ability to mute and unmute themselves at this point. Chair Kinkage, should I begin the applicant presentation? Absolutely, I was just gonna welcome you to the meeting and you can take it from here. Great, thanks to you, members of the design review board and welcome Michael Birch. What you have in front of you tonight and I appreciate the opportunity to present the project to you is as Connor most efficiently talked about and talked very eloquently about the project itself. I'll go through and maybe hit some of our slides or the same as his and we'll just try and get some more of the detail in there and then open it up to the board for questions. So are we gonna pull up our presentation, Patty? Typically the planner will do the applicant presentation. So Connor, if you don't have access, we let us know. I can get access momentarily, sorry about that. Okay, here we go. Okay, great, thanks Connor. So we do have the entire design and applicant team here tonight. That's Tim Shannon, who is the owner and will be the builder of this project. He has, this is his corporation yard currently. We have Steve Orogo from, as who is our landscape architect and then Eric Wade from BKF Engineers who can talk about any of the Juniper Lane and interior improvements that we've provided. But you can see from this that Juniper Avenue is sort of the bisecting point between a county, the county land and then the light industrial, general industrial area of Santa Rosa. Next slide. So you can see hen houses to the west and wild brine is in there as well and there's a storage facility sort of to the southwest of us as well. There is a residence to the south but that is also light industrial or IG industrial owned property as well. There are some existing buildings on the site but tonight we're not making any changes to those. Those are just to allow the board to know that there are five other buildings on site. Next slide. So this is the preliminary site plan you saw before but I wanna go in a little more detail about you can see Juniper Avenue on the top. That's the road that will be widened as part of this project. And right now it's a very narrow, very difficult street to for pedestrians but we'll be adding obviously curb gutter sidewalk and widening of the road as part of the improvements to the frontage of our property. There are two entry points shown on this site, the one to the right, the top of the page you see the entry apron coming into the property site that is an existing one. The one to the left of that is the one that we're proposing to add as part of the improvements to this property. You can also see all of the interior improvements which are intended to provide circulation within the property to the various buildings or existing buildings. And then the building under question tonight is building F which is the warehouse building that's to the Southwest of the property. It sits about 60 feet back that the rendering that Connor showed in his presentation is actually was an older iteration where the building was closer to the street. We've moved it back now in order to get relief from the street and as much relief as we could from sort of that public right away there. Next slide. I'm gonna turn it over to Steve Aragona. He's our landscape architect. And you can talk about both the landscape improvements along Juniper Ave but also what our intention is on the interior of the project. Thank you, Peter. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, loud and clear. Welcome. Perfect, perfect. Again, as Peter said, my name is Steve Aragona. I'm the landscape architect for the project and the plans that we prepared are gonna significantly change the site because as Connor described, the site is a construction staging and storage yard used by Tim Shannon for his current project or his current company. And so the only existing landscaping out there is when Peter was showing that there is one existing oak tree on Juniper Avenue at the new entrance, we were actually gonna transplant that tree and I think our plan shows that that plan, that tree will get transplanted in a planting area further to the north of the project. There are some existing pine trees and some other existing deciduous trees. For some reason, I can't remember which ones they are. They will all be retained in that central courtyard. And as Connor mentioned, the central courtyard area will also retain an existing deck and lawn area that will be used for the employees. And if you can recall the photos that were shown of the existing site that showed the existing landscaping, there's not much there. The green that you saw was probably the non-native annual grasses that turned green after the rains, but during the summer, it's pretty dry. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna introduce a lot of existing, or excuse me, a lot of new colorful drought-tolerant plants all over the project to create a lot of visual interest. Not only with the trees, which we're gonna plant, create myrtles and some, and Western red buds, but we're also gonna be planting a lot of the plants that you see in the, you'll see it on the next exhibit that includes plants like lavender, asters, other things to interject a lot of beautiful color throughout the site, because right now there's very little. So we're gonna interject that. And along Juniper Avenue, we're gonna be adding the Chinese pistachio as a street tree. And if you know that street, there's nothing out there. This project will be out there like an island until other people develop along Juniper Avenue, but it will significantly change the look along Juniper Avenue in front of the project, as well as to the interior of the project. So if we can go to the next slide. And this again shows you a lot of the plant material and we can, you can see where we're showing some of those plants, the smaller flowering accent shrubs, again, like the lavenders and the arrows that will be planted around. And we'll also be planting some colorful vines along the wall to again, create some more color along the project. And again, those are some samples. We're also gonna be having some bioretention for the bioretention basins. And those plants are showed over to the lower left-hand portion of the site. So again, you can see that we're gonna be interjecting a lot of different plant material with a lot of different colors into a site that really doesn't have a whole lot right now. So if we can go to the next slide. This is the site lighting plan. And you can see the different color codes. The orange color lights are, the lights that are gonna be on the new building, as well as the green lights, but the lights that I wanted to mention are the ones that are in the sort of pinkish, rosious color. Those are the area luminaires that are gonna be providing security lighting for the parking and around the site. And those lights are all gonna be designed so that they're casting downward. So there is no light glare onto a joining property or into the night sky. So hopefully that'll take care of everything at a ground level. And with that, I think I'll turn it back over to Peter. And I'll be available for any questions or comments that you might have at the end regarding landscaping. Thanks, Steve. Next slide, please, Connor. So this is just a slide to show you the dash to the orange and red or just the existing buildings on there. But as I stated before, there's no exterior improvements planned on those. There will be some tenant improvements to those buildings in the future, but no exterior improvements right now, other than to gets a lighting plan that sort of lights the interior circulation path for both the existing buildings and our new building. Next slide. This is just a number of pictures of the various buildings that are on the site right now. You can see there's a variation between stick built and modular buildings, all single story, all wood frame construction. Building F is actually an existing residential building that's on site that Tim Shannon's daughter is living in. And that will remain residential. So there will be not only the security system that's part of the sort of the cannabis project, there's also gonna be on site security just by the fact that somebody lives there. Next slide, please. So this is the building itself. It's a, you know, this is a light industrial building and it's a simple form, 150 by 100 feet footprint. As I said, it's set about 60 feet back from the street on that west side that west elevation is where we have roll-up doors for the industrial use. That's both in the north and south bump out of the building. We have an exterior stair on that north side of the building, interior stair and what will be a future lift. At this point, what we're, the intention is to build this out as a corn shell project. And then that will allow Tim to start putting leases together for the interior operations of the various uses that have been approved by the Planning Commission. Next slide. So this is the second floor. It takes up about two thirds of the ground floor space. You know, we're a little over 20,000 square feet of interior use space. Next slide, please. So you can see from the form, this is an efficient light industrial building. The material selection is really based on a couple of things that make a lot of sense. The CNU with the contrasting color banding at top and bottom, Tim Shannon is a mason and he has a masonry business and it makes a lot of sense to build a masonry building just because of the efficiency of the fact that the builder knows this product type very well. Secondarily is that this is intended to be a cannabis use and those cannabis uses include both volatile and non-volatile manufacturing and extraction which have their own fire rating concerns, so concerns and a masonry building is a real good material selection for fire life safety issues. As Connor talked about the window selection on this, one of the things about this sort of new light industrial use that we have in Santa Rosa, which is cannabis, is that very often windows are antithetical to the uses that are going on inside but not wanting to just create a CMU box. We have put windows on all four sides of the building and then we have, if you could go to the next slide, you can see the contrasting CMU both top and bottom. We have aluminum storefront system, black aluminum storefront system with tube steel awning that will go over those windows. On this west elevation, there is a practical reason for that because that's open into the ground floor below but with the uses that we're planning on putting in there, in fact, exterior light is antithetical to the uses that are going on inside. In other words, cultivation doesn't need natural light, it actually needs artificial light and we're using these elements to sort of break up the form a little bit and to give the building a little more interest to those from point at which you can see it from the public way and so that is the intent of the sort of architectural feature but as I said, this building is, it's gonna be about 26 to 28 feet. It's got a parapet around it in order to try and screen mechanical equipment that would sit towards the center of the building so it would put it well in excess of 100 feet from Juniper Avenue and this building actually sits so far back from the street that it's not gonna be a big visual part of that Juniper Avenue public way. Let's see, let's go to the next slide. So this is looking south on Jupiter Avenue as it sits today. You can see the existing CMU wall on the right. That little dirt path that goes across the culverted ditch is the point of the southern, the next entry point that we would put in which will match the existing one if you go to the next slide. That, the upper left picture there is the existing security gate, sort of a core 10 rusted steel monument entry down to the lower right is the picture of the existing condition where we would knock out and create a matching entry gate system there as well. So the intention is that these two gates would match well the second gate would match the existing gate. And if you could act Connor, if you could actually go back up one slide, this is the oak tree that Steve was talking about that will get transplanted, but you can see there's on the west side of Juniper Avenue right now, there's virtually no planting. And so the improvements that we're intending to do all along there is gonna make this a much more pleasant street number one to walk on. There are cars that go up and down this. So this is, this will make it a much more pleasant and safe environment. And with the street tree program and the planting that Steve has intended for it, this should be a significant improvement to Juniper Avenue. I think that's would wrap up our presentation, but as I said, we have the team here and Tim Shannon, the owner is here. So any questions that the board has we're happy to engage with you. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. Thank you, Steve. And thanks, Tim, for bringing this project forward to us. Before we get into questions and comments of the board, I'm gonna go ahead and take public comments so that we can incorporate any questions that might come out of those public comments into our questions and comments, if appropriate. So I'd like to open up the public hearing and at this time take public comment. Public will be afforded three minutes to speak on this item. Item number 8.1, which again is the major design review for good onward Inc. cannabis facility at 3192 Juniper Avenue. So I will open up the public comment period and public hearing. Hi, Chair Kincaid. So far I don't see any raised hands. Oh, there's one. Okay, so we have one raised hands, initials B and M and I'm going to... So you can unmute yourself and speak anytime you would like. Hi, good evening and thanks for allowing us some time to speak publicly. We are homeowners that are on Oasis Drive, which is a private road that runs directly into Juniper. Because no studies were done about traffic flow from Juniper on to Oasis Drive, we are really concerned about the increase of traffic that will be coming from Juniper on to Oasis. We have livestock, animals, children, retired people. So, and no one maintains our road except for us. So an increased traffic flow would not only cost us money, but could increase dangerous situations. Our road is not a very wide road as Jun... It's basically the same size as Juniper appears right now. Increasing Juniper's road, expanding it, putting sidewalks is also going to increase people coming on to our private property. So most of the residents are concerned about it. We were not unfortunately aware of the very first meeting. So I wanted the board to understand that at one point in time, there was a gate at the end separating Juniper and Oasis. That might be a nice transition to bring back, which would make the residents of Oasis probably a little bit happier knowing that we're not gonna have that increased traffic and I'll yield the rest of my time. Thank you for your comments and taking the time to address the board. Okay, Chair Concate, I don't see any other raised hands. So if anybody on the attendee list, if you would like to speak, if you can raise your hand and we will unmute you, I don't see any more raised hands. We'll just give it another moment. Okay, we have one raised hand and I will go ahead and unmute you. You can, you can speak when you're ready. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Welcome. I don't have any additional comments, but I do want to reiterate and stress the exact concerns that the previous commenter just made. I don't need to add anything additional, but I want to basically second all of the concerns that the previous person just spoke about and I'll yield the rest of my time as well. Thank you. Thank you for your comments and much appreciated. Okay, if anybody else would like to speak, if you could raise your hand, we can unmute your mic and Chair Concate, I don't see any more raised hands. Okay, at this time, I will close public comments and the public hearing and bring it back to the board. Let's go ahead and start out with questions only. This could be questions for staff or the applicant. Let's start with Board Member Wicks. Thank you, Chairman Kecade. Couple of questions. Oasis, is it a public or a private road? I'm looking on Google and it looks to me to be a continuation of Juniper single lane, but does go all the way out to Stony, not Stony Point, but connects to Primrose. Can staff or perhaps the civil engineer answer that first question I have? Yeah, so, Eric, are you able to respond to that? Yeah, I'm here if you can hear me. This is Eric with Big F. My understanding is that the traffic tune from the site would take Juniper Avenue to Bellevue Avenue and the employees would access the site that way. I believe that the public comment stated that it was a private road. I don't have any reason. I think you're breaking up on us a little bit there, Eric. I think the question is, is Oasis a public or private roadway? I don't have an answer to that right now. I can look into it now. All right, let me ask you a second question. The improvements specific to the project we're reviewing tonight. The graphic that I saw was a little unclear to me. Are you improving one half of Juniper and expanding Juniper to the east of where Juniper is now? And how far does the improvement go? Does it just go property line to property line, which is what I would expect? Or does the improvements on Juniper go all the way to Bellevue? The conditions of approval require the project frontage to be improved to industrial street standard, modified industrial street standard, which is a 30 feet, two 14 foot travel lanes and a future parking lane. So it's set up for future improvement of Juniper Avenue. Now from the northerly corner of the property to Bellevue, it's being widened to 20 feet wide for fire department access. I think that's it for my questions right now. Thank you. Thank you, Board Member Wicks, Board Member Sher and questions or staff or the applicant. Sure. Just to continue on Henry's line of questioning about the roadway, expanding the roadway up to Bellevue. Is that part of, to 20 feet, is that part of this project? Yes, that's part of the required public improvements. And then it's ending to the south. So it's not going to be widened to the south at all. No, the public improvements end at the south end of the property so that the new water main and storm drain and road improvements in there. Sure. Okay. That I think answers some of the questions and concerns raised about encouraging potentially industrial traffic or other traffic down to the south to Oasis. So good to hear that it's ending at the southerly property line. I guess a question for staff. The residents raised the possibility of a gate down at Juniper and Oasis. And I can't imagine that anything like that would be part of this project, but I'm just curious that public and private roadway interface, who would be responsible for that? Say that this project was contiguous to that intersection there. I am not sure Andrew, are you able to answer that? Ah, yes. This is Andrew Triple us acting supervising planner. As we look at that portion of Oasis, just a couple of properties in west of Juniper is actually in the county. So it is difficult for us to determine the status of that roadway. As a private roadway, property owners could decide to, I think, gate it. But of course, as you indicated, board member Sharon, that would not be part of this project. Of the traffic study, traffic impact study that was prepared as part of the project's CEQA document that was adopted, mitigated negative declaration, did not anticipate nominal changes in trip generation in the near term when compared to the most recent permitted uses of the site. And upon full build out, would be expected result in an average of 102 new trips per day. However, the study concludes that the change in land use would have a less than significant impact on the surrounding road network. Okay, great. Thank you for clarifying both those points. And hopefully that addresses some of the concerns for the residents down in Oasis there that any of the encouragement or encouraging of new traffic will be towards the north. So, and that's what the study was looking at. Great. Question for the applicant. Just thinking about the site and the looking at there's an existing CMU wall that goes around the whole site. That's not gonna be changed at all. That's going to be, there's no fencing or that CMU wall is not gonna be changed. That's correct. Oh, sorry about that, Peter. Go ahead here. But that's correct. Okay. Okay. Great. That does it for questions for me. Thank you. Thank you, board member Sharon, board member Weigel questions. This is probably a question for Peter. I know it's nitpicky, but the trash enclosure, I just didn't see anything in here about it. I'm assuming it's just gonna be CMU with a gate or something, right? Yes, you're right. It's not shown there, but yes, it would be. It probably would be a CMU with obviously a roof over it and meeting all the requirements of, we also have obviously it's cannabis. So we have secured debris storage that we have to incorporate as part of the plan as well. And all of that obviously would occur behind the secured wall. But yeah, that's fine on the question. Thanks. Thanks, board member Weigel. Board member Burch, you warmed up yet? Yep, yep, we're here. So I think my only questions were round oasis and those have been answered. So really no other questions for the applicant or the board or for the staff. Great, thank you. Vice Chair Hedge-Beth, questions? Thank you, Chair Kinkate. Yeah, I had a question probably for planning staff. I noted that this whole area back in the 70s, 80s through much of the 90s was industrial in this quadrant. There were some general plan updates back in about the 2004 world where the property to the east is a property that has a designation for housing. Usually it's only a federally funded project that sometimes scrutinizes over dispersing federal funds, affordable housing, for instance, and there are questions sometimes with federal revenue about off-gassing or what cannabis may do in that area. I know that there's a lot of advances now with filtration. I don't know if this is really an issue at all, whether that was more of a question at the time that wasn't memorialized in any policy. I didn't see, Andrew, from your work that there was a flag about that, but I just wanted to raise the question out of curiosity. Good evening, Board Member Hedge-Beth. That's a great question. So any use of gases in the manufacturing process would be a closed system and that would be permitted through fire department and expected annual aid. So they do have as part of, I think it's the C1D1 space. Those gases are controlled in the event that they would escape. So I don't think we anticipate any potential issues there with then typically what we find for cannabis projects in proximity to residential land use as either existing or future is the potential impact of odor emanating from the facilities, all of our cannabis facilities in the city of Santa Rosa are indoor facilities. We don't allow any outdoor cultivation or other uses. And the code's very clear that they do, we do require mitigation, complete mitigation of all odor to a level undetectable outside the building. So in the event that those parcels that have a general plan land use designation, residential land use designation should ever develop for residential uses, they could count on the city enforcing the odor mitigation requirements to the fullest extent. Thank you. And I am going to apologize. I think this question might already been answered, but I was fumbling around for information on it and may have not heard it, but for the public comments that were made in relation to the traffic questions that were posed, could the applicant team kind of reiterate what the use is as far as number of employees, I see 10 at any one time during shifts and traffic to and fro the property proper and just to memorialize it verbally here this evening. Well, Chair Kincaid, this is Peter Stanley. I'll answer the first part and Tim Orteo from the owner's team might be able to answer the employee question, but through the traffic study, it was always anticipated that the shortest route obviously to getting back to the public street was to head north on Juniper Avenue and hit Bellevue. There's no practical reason why you would head south on Juniper Avenue and take Oasis over to Primrose, which just essentially takes you back to Bellevue. So the closest outlet back to major Santa Rosa streets is to head north on Juniper Avenue. In terms of what that means in terms of employees, maybe Tim Orteo could talk about, I will say first, we do not have all of the tenants in those buildings yet. And so that's future. There is an assumption of who's gonna be in there and what those, and we did calculate based on that. So maybe Tim Orteo could elaborate a little bit more on that. Looks like Tim has been unmuted. So whoever's on the Tim Shannon line, if you'd like to elaborate, that'd be appreciated. How about now, John, can you hear me? Yes, sir, welcome. Thank you, Tim Shannon speaking. We had a little muting problem here, so Paul does. I didn't exactly hear the entire portion of that question, but I'm gonna chime in on what Peter was talking about. Yeah, the main thoroughfare from Juniper to Bellevue is the one I've used for the last six years. Quite frankly, I've only been down the south end of Juniper, out of Oasis maybe twice. And the whole six years I've owned this property. Once again, there's no reason to kind of take you, continuing out into the middle of the country. There really would be no point in accessing Juniper Avenue from that south end. We anticipate any and all users of this facility to always access up to Bellevue and down to Dutton over to the freeway, which is where most of the traffic we've been coming from. I don't know if I addressed your question. The screen is moving around and we missed a little bit of the question, but nevertheless, you can expand on that if you'd like to. And could you talk about employees, number of assumed employees on the site? Well, this actually is a type of facility we're proposing even if it was completely to be used up at all times. It really doesn't require a tremendous amount of employees from rented facility. I think the tail we're in the neighborhood of if it was fully staffed as well as the maximum number at 10 is what we would like. Yeah, we're talking 10 to 12 people, which is obviously a pretty small amount of employees for this amount of building space, but it's really all a cold day and it would require an extractive require just to be bought in each building. Perfect. I appreciate you taking the time to verbalize that. It sounded based on my listening to the callers from public comment that they may have not been afforded to peruse the traffic study. So I just wanted to get that on record. And if they're still listening that the traffic to and fro the site that we're looking at is probably not going to be all that much more dramatic than it has been over the past six years of use. So thank you again. With that, any other questions? I see board member Wicks raising his hand and board member Sharon. So let's go ahead and board member Wicks. Thank you, Chairman King-Chade. Follow-up for, probably for Peter actually, the rendering, the artist rendering in our package, you said that that was done when the building was further to the west on the site. Can you tell me how far that rendering represents or how much further back is the current building from that rendering? That building is almost 20 feet closer to the street than what it is now. We are now 60 feet back. That was probably closer to 40 feet. Trying to get turning radiuses and a quick shot into the building. We've pushed everything now back into the corner to get as much relief from the street as we could. So it's probably that one, that was a year and a half ago and an iteration from a year and a half ago. And I'll say it was probably closer to 20 feet closer. So 40 feet back as opposed to 60 feet back where we are now. Okay, I drove the site today and that eight foot CMU wall is, at least from my vantage point was pretty tall. And I think that's an optimistic look of the building. I just, I don't think you're gonna see it that much, especially with a 20 feet further back. But I'll say that a little bit more for my comments. Maybe I just don't have a green thumb, but every time I've tried to grow Boganvillea, the various houses I've lived in around the parts of Sonoma County, I just, it freezes and I lose it every time. And I don't mean to step on your toes, board member Sharon, but I'm just curious about that plant selection. And if it's a hardier Boganvillea that I'm not aware of, like to hear the landscape's architects rationale for using that plant type. Steve, are you there? Hopefully. We'll give a moment for Steve to unmute himself. And if he's not with us at the moment or unable to, we'll go ahead and take that. Steve, if you can unmute yourself there now. Are you able to hear me now? Yes. We can hear you. Thank you. So I had a question if there was any report or study done about relative crime, relative to the cannabis operation and the crime rate that we've had locally between Tobin, Todd and Stoney Point regarding other cannabis operations. Chair, looks like we had the wrong Steve. Yeah, we had the wrong Steve. And so Steve that was just speaking, public comment period happened a little bit earlier. But since you were able to chime in, we'll go ahead and take your comment and get a response from the group. But we were looking for Steve. Aragaro. Aragaro, can you hear me now? Yeah, Boganvillea, back to Boganvillea. Yeah, this is an interesting question. I get it a lot. I think of what a lot of people think of Boganvillea as a plant that's from Southern California and does very well in San Diego and Los Angeles. Well, it actually does much better up here in Northern California than you think. You know, when I actually have it in my yard and I live in Petaluma and I use a lot of projects. There's another project I did for Eden Housing in Petaluma where that client told me, you're gonna have problems with that Boganvillea. And so I said, well, actually no, because basically if the plant gets six hours of sunlight a day, it will do quite well. And it can be protected by being up against fences or walls and we're gonna put it up against that concrete block wall. And the other comment I've heard a lot about freezing, if the plant gets established, you don't lose it. You trim it back to that point where you get the dead wood and the next year it blossoms it back out. And like I said, I've got this in my yard. I use it as an experiment because I get this comment about Boganvillea all the time. And I'll stick to my guns and tell you it will do very well. All right, thank you. Like I said, I just don't have a green thumb I think. And maybe I'm planting it in the shade where I should be planting the ferns, but thank you. If you're planting in the shade, you're planting in the wrong place. Yeah, I love the plan. I'm originally from Southern California area. So I try and I'll keep trying and put it in a sunnier spot. One last question for probably for Andrew Tripple, the conditional use permit that planning commission approved, is that a renewable CUP or does it get evaluated if there's problems at the site? Is there maybe from nuisance or whatnot? Is that permit revisited over time? Sure, that's a great question. So as with all of our conditional use permits, once the rights granted through the approved conditional use permit are vested through construction or operationalized, then those rights are vested for as long as the use remains active. So when a project vests their rights, then complaints are issues with the project. If they're violations of the city code are then addressed by city code enforcement through the code enforcement complaint process. And then of course, if it's other issues then Santa Rosa police department would be available for contact as well. Having said that, so then the direct responses, no planning does not review approved conditional use permits on any basis once those rights are vested. But having said that then, the state, we do require dual licensing with the state cannabis operator license and the state does do an annual review of those licenses. So I believe the state does look at those certain activities and such when they review that license. Board member Sharon, did you have a question? I did have a question, but I just wanna remind board member Wicks of Stainless Lane. No, but that's great. I can take that off my list for a comment later. Yeah, the Bougainvillea is a great question and Henry, if you wanna talk about planting spots for that later, we can do that. But I did have a question and Steve it does, it sounds like we're on the same page of that. And yeah, it's one that I, the Bougainvillea, I also try and use a lot in projects as much as I can, because I love it. Live for a long time in San Francisco, which where it grows very, very well. Yeah, now up here you try and use it and it does, it will freeze and die back. And can be killed. One of the things that I, so I was gonna bring it up later and I'll just bring it up now, is that when I recommend it to people, it needs to have the understanding that it could die and that there needs to be the, it's always a gamble. And then there needs to be the idea of maintenance. It takes that maintenance level just up another notch. So as long as you're being clear with the client that it's kind of a gamble, it's a gorgeous, you're trying to bring color, which I think with your plant palette and your design philosophy is really great. Just communicating that it's not as foolproof as some other sort of indestructible plants. I think it'll be a great one along that wall there. No, great insight. And thank you, thank you for that. And I'll pass it on to Tim. Yeah. Listening. Yeah, and I'll talk a little bit more about that plant palette when we get to comments, but a question about the south elevation, south side of the building in the site, I wish that they're in the package that the landscape plans are included in the plan set that we received, just because it would make it a little easier to actually read them. They are included in the applicant presentation, but the setback from there, is it five feet from the existing CMU wall? Are we reading that correctly? Yes. Okay, for there and for the parking area where then there's some tree removal there, just to the west, it's at the west side of the building. It says five feet also, as far as I can see, just wanted to confirm that setback from that existing wall. Yeah. Okay, thank you for confirming that. That's it. Any other board member questions? Okay, well, thanks to the applicant staff for the presentation. We'll formally bring it back to the board. And at this time, I would like to seek a motion from a board member. As we know, the motion gets us started on discussion. Any board members wanna come forward and make a motion one way or another? All right, one more time. Any board members wanna start this out with a motion so that we can have discussion? I can formulate a motion if you wish. And that is to proceed with approval for preliminary design review, subjecting the project or subject to friendly modifications or comments about the project's architecture and waive the reading of the text. Thank you, Vice Chair Hedgepeth. Do I hear a second? I'll second that. And I was pulling up the resolution before, so. And thank you, board member Sharon. So just to be clear, I'll read it into the record. This is the motion to approve the resolution of the design review board of the city of Santa Rosa granting design review approval for a good onward Inc. cannabis facility located at 3192 Juniper Avenue APN 134-072-004 file number DR19-072. And Vice Chair Hedgepeth waive the reading of the text in his motion, which was seconded by board member Sharon. So we've got a motion and a second on the table. I'd like to start with comment. Board member Wicks, comments, friendly amendments. Yeah, thank you, Chairman Kincade. I'm kind of a believer in form sometimes follows function and to put in windows in a facility that doesn't need windows seems like we're asking you to do something that the intent of the building doesn't do. I'd look to my other board members if you concur that maybe there's a better solution to windows and making the facility be what it is. And there's a couple of different ways we could articulate the building without having to put in windows that you're gonna have to cover up anyway from the inside, but maybe that's the best solution if the building ever changed uses. But I think the setbacks are good. If there's a zero setback on the south, I could see the building eliminating that five foot setback, but I think it's fine. The landscaping's a little bit narrow in there, but I can see why it's side of the way it is. I think the landscaping plan is excellent. I think the improvements along Juniper are going to really spruce up that street. I too think that people are, we tend to take the least distance to a path and I don't think Oasis is gonna be impacted by people coming to and from this facility in particular. I think as Juniper improves over time, then people might take a shortcut down Oasis, but it's gonna be one or two buildings further down Juniper. So I hope the neighbors aren't too scared by this project coming forth and I'm glad that Juniper's gonna be improved all the way down to Bellevue because it's a pretty rough country road. In fact, I passed by it one time when I was going down Bellevue and just missed the sign, but it's a very small narrow street as it exists now. I think it's fine. I think the project's good and we'll support approval tonight. Thank you, Board Member Wicks. Board Member Weigl, comments, friendly amendments. Yeah. So I think one of them is shall provide all relevant detailing for the trash enclosure and then also shall provide all landscape drawings as part of the official submission package as opposed to being in just an applicant presentation. Those would be my two shals to kind of clean up the requirements of designer review, I think. And then I agree with Henry on the windows. I guess I hadn't really thought about it like that until Henry said something, but I think in a way the archeologics team has kind of started to establish a bit of a vernacular in a way in terms of how the garage doors are set and then there's windows above, at least in the front elevation, there's kind of this repetition and kind of mirroring that exists. So I think I'd be kind of okay with it knowing how a cannabis processing facility works in terms of all the grow lights and all that other stuff that goes inside and not having windows, but I wonder maybe if it makes sense to find a spot for them in some of maybe the office spaces, I don't know, or maybe a skylight or something. I don't, just as a thought. And then other than that, I'm not in love with the tube sunshade thing. I think there's a much more elegant solution that kind of fits within the aesthetic of the CMU. I think they're a little fussy. And I think if you made them less fussy and more simple, maybe like, I don't know, a sea channel, kind of just flat kind of shade structure with fins. I think that'd be really clean and elegant and match kind of what you have going on. And then you could do the same thing and create just an entry canopy to the main doors as well in that same kind of design language. And that's really, those are my only comments. I think I like the split face block. I think it's a more textual kind of fun way to deal with a very industrial space and just give the building a little bit of character. And I think that's it. So thanks for submitting and hopefully we get approval for you guys tonight and you can move forward. Thank you, Board Member Weigl. Board Member Burch, comments, friendly amendments. Great, yeah, no real comments just to respond to Henry's concern and I do get it. I think it's just calling them windows when there are actually some really, I think some well-thought out articulation to break up what could either otherwise be a really boring industrial facade. It's a building no one's gonna see. So I think it is some, I just think it's mindful to do a little bit more. And if they're not windows, I mean, they're certainly not pastiche. They're, they do match up with, as Drew said, the roll-up doors. So I don't know that they're trying to fake being windows. I just think that they feel like a little bit of texture to what could otherwise be a very bland facade. Overall, I have no issues. My only real concern is that I think it's too bad. This is a project that more people aren't going to see, meaning that I wish that these facilities had more employees. I guess they're just like data centers. They go hand in hand maybe, data centers and cannabis facilities. But long story short, I'm pleased with the project. It's a lot of attention to a facility that's going to have a limited number of users. It's sort of an off the grid part of town right now, but I think that if we do end up with other industrial facilities or other projects that surround this, this will not be an ice or how did this happen? So I support the project and look forward to voting for the approval tonight. Before getting comments from our second and motioner, I just wanted to clarify what we're talking about possibly using some other architectural articulation in lieu of windows, which elevations of the building are we speaking of in particular? Anybody want to take that Henry? Well, I just, it's looking at the floor plans for the proposed tenants. If this was a hard concrete plan and some of the windows were in a break area, for example, then it kind of makes sense to have windows there where it happens that in a cultivation room or a potential cultivation room area, it's just going to be blacked out. And that's not uncommon. I know of facilities where they had office store and it's all covered up with a double wall. I was just wondering from my fellow board members if we could help the project and help the applicant by making those, instead of those being windows, it was a tiled area or a different textural material and keeping the shape in the form, but not having it be a window that's never going to get cleaned. And I tend to agree with Henry. I mean, I also agree with Michael too. It kind of, it is what it is, right? I think actually, you know, not doing an expensive windows may be the way to go in terms of per, you know, kind of what Michael said, nobody's going to see it. But if they did something, you know, like a tile or a different color of block or something, I don't know, that might be interesting. And then I don't know functionally how this would work, but I think for the purple, what's purple? I would say like the front office components, if you could get a little bit of natural light there, either through a skylight or like, I'm not exactly sure why there isn't a window in that reception access control so like you can see who's approaching the building. Maybe that's my not knowing too much about cannabis facilities, but it seems to me like that would be a really good spot for just like a window in the middle on that ground floor there. And maybe the applicant can address that. But that would be my thought. I'm cool with kind of either option, keep them with windows, change them to some sort of textual material and then try to get some sunlight into those office functions only, because obviously it doesn't work for some of the other stuff. We're member of our chair. I would agree with the articulation and having the canopies and having the representation of a fenestration is great. Does it have to be a window? Does it have to be expensive? I think cannery might have brought up the best point, which is it's gonna be more difficult to clean glass. God only knows what are we talking about here? A 16 foot by 16 foot piece of glass is actually gonna turn out to be, is that gonna be a second grid behind the other grid of how is that gonna work? And then, what's the material that's covering the inside of the window to block it out? What's the lifespan of that material? It starts to peel on the inside. So the elevation is handsome for an industrial building. You start to think about what that is as a window or a piece of glass probably makes more sense to be a recess with an alternating color of material or don't pretend to be a window but maybe change the gloss level. So I think to that point, I'm looking at the elevation. I think Henry really dug down into the function and maintenance of a window and the expensive window for the applicant. So I could be completely behind changing the way that that worked if we kept the basic articulation on the facade and the rhythm and kept the canopies and the grids and those sorts of things, we might be better off without any glass involved. So. I appreciate the clarification. Board Member Sharon. Sure. To continue with this conversation a little bit, one of my comments was going to be about the South elevation. One of the things that you mentioned that you really tried to do, which is very thoughtfully designed, all around the entire site. I really appreciate that. Mentioned four-sided architecture. The fourth side of the South elevation is just the 151 and a half feet swath of CMU. And so yeah, I like the idea of having that nod to the breaking up the big faces. And I think that that can be also nodded to on the South side as well. And my question about the set back there was that it's very close up to the existing wall and then there is a property to the South and there are structures and people there who knows if it'll stay its use now or if the other thing's gonna go there to be redeveloped. But to bring any of the articulation that you're doing around to that side as well. So complete the fourth side. You got three that are pretty interesting. There's part of the North face that I think could deal with a bit more articulation as well. But I don't know if it has to be for me windows. I think you can do something more unique. Go with some of your unique things. I like the ideas of tile or color change. It'll be a little bit cheaper. It's an interesting point about the maintenance of glass. But I'd like to see some incorporation of the South elevation as well. So let's see here. Go through my list. Yeah, definitely kudos for the thoughtful design. This is an enclosed compound behind the walls and you're creating a very pleasant workplace for the workers there. And so yeah, very thoughtfully designed. A question about the relocating the oak tree. I appreciate the idea of that, of keeping that. But in terms of, it's a 15 foot coast live oak. It's a nice one, but you could either. So okay, transplanting a somewhat mature oak tree is there's always the possibility of mortality. You could just kind of get rid of that oak tree and rather than having to replace it, either choose a coast live oak and go straight from a nursery specimen tree. You could really go with this. I like that you're bringing in the Japanese aesthetic of the borrowed scenery, Japanese design there. Bring that and choose instead of this oak tree, which is a nice one, choose something else to make a specimen tree out of. And you could save some expense there rather than digging it up and transplanting it. You're really having to baby it. Oakstone, they don't necessarily like to be transplanted like that once they've been in situ for a long time. So just think about that. I appreciate what you're trying to do with the resource allocation of the natural resource, but think about the, of course, the material resource. It gives you a chance to get to a specimen. The plant palette is a very nice one. Again, bringing in the color, bringing in the low water usage, interesting plants as well as is not your typical plant palette, which I really appreciate. We already talked about the bougainvillea. If the client's down for the experiment, yeah, Steve is great, let's do it. Get more bougainvillea in town here. I'm always down for that. Sagebrush is really great. Of course, some parts of the year towards the end of the summer gets a little raggedy, but is a great native and smells good and is a good habitat plant. So also worth a try. And the rest of the palette is good. It's interesting that you talked about wanting to bring in some of the more unique plants with the bougainvillea. I'd say do that with your tree selection too. And that's a consider, it's not a shall, just bring in some of the unique ideas. Instead of crepe myrtle, do chelopsis or something. You're doing some interesting stuff with the plants just keep going with that. But I really like your idea of bringing in that borrowed scenery. It's one of my favorite concepts and design as well. And so again, thoughtfully designed, I think that that can also be brought again to the south elevation. You're bringing in those redwoods to the north. The south and east corners are a little, you've got your 20 foot building. And that's sort of the forgotten side there. That's why I was wondering about the five foot setback. If you create a little bit more space you could maybe echo the redwoods on the other side and do some planting of something to break up some of the building face as well. If it's possible to make a little bit more space there rather than five feet, you can plant more trees, taller columnar trees. That could actually, rather than doing the tile work or whatever articulation we're kind of recommending for the other faces, you could articulate that face with trees. And with columnar trees could be redwoods, could be columnar maple, something like that. Do something there. Because it is this 150 feet long face that is just facing that south elevation. And so, and that's thinking also borrowed scenery. What your building is is going to be borrowed scenery for that south property. And so, we got to think about what our scenery is in terms of our property that we're working on, but then how others are looking at it as well. And so, I think something along there on that south side could be useful. Let's see. That will take care of my comments. Thank you. Thanks very much for a great package. And Drew, thanks also for bringing up, including the landscape plan into the plan set again. Thank you, board member Sharon, vice chair Hinchbeth, comments and friendly amendments. Yes, yeah, comments first. Well, thank you everyone. This has been certainly a very thorough look at a project that's well conceived. I just wanted to mention that this is a robust and well thought out way to address this project with this kind of product. It's a very expensive, valuable product. And the reason I brought up the whole thing about ventilation is that this is such a contained and engineered arena. And as Andrew Tropelle mentioned, no orders shall escape. It's this durable, in many ways, politically buoyant project that is not gonna release its orders about. The whole question about how the orders go through the building and the reason for the window discussion, it's very interesting to me. I liked Henry's comments about the purpose of windows being, I'll use the word feigned and the question of some of their modulation up there may be doing this. I'm a go on no windows. I know that in the office area, it's the whole question about ventilation and so forth. You want to have people obviously enjoy their job and the way of getting out of the building and being in landscaping and then going into the building, there's shifts here. I don't know, there's like five or six different rotations as all kinds of things moving. I'm certainly game on letting the building just function as it is with, I don't even think skylights are in the picture because they're worried about people going in there and with a helicopter and maybe pouncing through them. I'm not sure but these are super tight buildings because of the value of what's in them and maybe that would soothe the neighbors more. On the subject of plants and I don't want to get into Adam's lane at all but the whole Booginvillea thing, I'm fine with whatever happens to Booginvillea. My thought is that there isn't necessarily recesses but if you had some kind of a metal grid that's something like Virginia Creeper could go in, Virginia Creeper is weak enough as far as someone in a ninja suit jumping a wall and climbing Virginia Creeper, what's he gonna bash into or what can they do? But I think the idea of losing the outrigger tube trellis altogether that was a concern well said from Drew is don't have any trellising because you don't have a window you're not letting heat in, lose the trellising. And in my opinion, instead of some kind of a color inset allow a little bit of a shadow pattern and the idea of some hardy other vine complimenting the Booginvillea. There's nothing planned to creep up the building but I'm rather curious, it's kind of a lyrical idea that I've just saved all window costs, all header costs and by simply applying something that may only offset the wall three to four inches in a grid and then perhaps allowing nature to say hello to that. I'm a big fan of, I have them around my house. Kiwis do very well, male and female, if it's not to be seen, except that they do their mating at night so you can't look but they require a male female plant but that's a wonderful plant. And maybe it's a little too robust because they get big and they do fun things. But anyway, I think on all fronts here, it's a rural area that's sourcing and I don't in any way want to step on neighbor's toes and they want to be there for years. You can make goat soap and raise goats next door here forever or it can turn into other things that my closing comments are, I'm game on perhaps some of the kind of landscaping affecting those walls. Maybe I have a more banal effect on just the blank walls or left blank. I'm good literally with having elevations and I'll just say this very quickly. The elevations that could sport a this trellising above the garage doors, that makes perfect sense. And I'm not really forcing it where you don't have it. I'm thinking of the East elevation maybe up there. So it's kind of the West and the East and I'm really game for plants doing the work. You can actually freely, anyone's driven down a freeway and see Soundwall, particularly around Palo Alto what Virginia Creeper's done. Just the music of Virginia Creeper going up miles and miles of Soundwall is a delight to me. So those are my remarks, thank you. Can I add one thing, Scott? Please, board member Sharon, go ahead. Yeah, and Warren, as you were, you were raring to go there and talking, I was in the midst of looking up some of vine species as well because I was thinking the exact same thing that there are the Virginia Creeper's one, the Creeping Fig, the Ficus Pumila, which also grows tighter to the building, having something that will grow up the building and is not climbable. Yeah, really. But I think that that is a potentially cheaper and more like you say, lyrical way of actually doing that. So I'm all, yeah, I agree with that as well. Great, thank you. So I'm wondering in crafting this as a motion and from the amendment to it, is it that we could allow for all windows to be eliminated? Or do we want to specify certain sides of the building? I've kind of heard certain sides of the building, but also that all the windows could be eliminated. So I'd like to get some consensus around that. I understand the variations of articulation to consider, but board member Wicks, you want to take a shot at that? Chair, can Kate, could I just jump in first before you guys do this? Absolutely. I was actually going to ask if we could hear from the applicants architect to see and weigh in with them on our direction. We're starting to head, so we get that crafted in the resolution. Great, thanks, Henry. I appreciate this conversation for sure. And most definitely, we went through this conversation. The design team, the owner and as we go through this and it's never our intention to come up with some sort of, you know, it's a substitute kind of, you know, feigning in elements that, you know, don't really serve any purpose. That wasn't the intention of the windows originally. The intention of the windows originally was we had a shell building that we wanted to be flexible. Number one, when things change over time, you know, you've got this building you've taken all the flexibility out of it. For instance, let's say it does, and now what you do is you do want more natural light in certain areas of the building. You can't even modify for that without starting to tear into block. You can always use the skylights in, but it sort of handcuffs you. That's one thing. The other side to this is that Tim wanted that interior space to sort of have, you know, not so much feeling like there was this big block sitting over in the corner that the employees and the people who were working here also had, you can see with that beautiful landscape plan and the buildings themselves that there is some sort of, you know, interaction in between that there's a softness to the building even though we realize this is a 28 foot tall, you know, CM building. And so some of these elements were really to try and soften that a little bit and also to maintain some flexibility in the future. We have an idea of what's gonna go in there, but we all know every one of the people on this board knows, you know, a year from now, it could all change. And now, you know, now you've crafted this building that has less flexibility to it. So Tim is not adverse to putting the windows in and then maybe the walls do go up in front of them, but maybe they don't. And it gives us some flexibility when we do the interior tenant improvements to maybe play around with more of these ideas that you've been bringing up. Right now it isn't the intention that there would sort of be sort of an entry space where there'd be a waiting room and things like that because this isn't open to the public. This is just people come in with a security card, they open the gate and they go to their job. And they're gonna be working in manufacturing spaces that can't have windows. But maybe there are areas where we could utilize this. So I think that I would say we would like to maintain the flexibility of that. And, you know, I think you all like the building and we like the building. I loved Drew's comment about the windows. I think that's a brilliant observation about that, that the tubes just be too heavy, too much out of context. We were thinking about the tube steel sort of, you know, storefront window system that the tube steel might add to it. But I'd love to see panel and maybe bar, box steel bar that it does the screening. And the windows on the west side may end up being at some point real windows that bring light into that open high bay area of the warehouse. So I would just say maybe the windows on the south side, you know, originally we had left those out, but, you know, if we wanted to take some out, maybe we take those out. But I would say from the applicant side, we certainly appreciate the effort by the board to sort of help us control costs. But I think there's also a 30, 40 year horizon that we're trying to look at as well and trying to understand what's the most flexible building we can design and build now. So it's my long-winded response. Yeah, it's a great response. And I think appreciated. I see a lot of nodding heads here, understanding what you're trying to get after from a long-term asset approach versus short-term potential use. Any board member comments to Mr. Stanley's explanation? So I think we'll go ahead. Yeah, I think, Peter, your spot on the whole idea of being forward-thinking, thinking of the future, if more buildings were like this, we'd save a lot of money. And that's a whole other subject that attend for on that. I think with that in mind, letting this building blossom into something else later, it's sprouting out, may blossom later. I'm fine with that. Great. Well, with that, I think I'll recount what I've heard so far as potential friendly amendments and get some consensus so we can move this motion forward. Okay, so what I have is, shall provide all relevant detailing for the trash enclosure, shall provide a full landscape set of plans, consider a more elegant solution and a more simple solution to the sunshade structure above the windows. Consider adding an entry canopy, which would match the simple shade structure over the entry. Consider a new live oak specimen tree from a nursery rather than transplanting the existing live oak. Scott, I would say you can even leave out to get flexibility if they wanna do live oak again, but I would say specimen tree. Okay, consider a specimen tree from a nursery rather than transplanting the existing live oak. Consider more tree diversity on site. Consider at the south and east corners, more planting with taller columnar trees and consider more taller tree plantings on the south side if a larger setback could be achieved. Consider metal trellis with creeping vines, suggestions to Virginia creeper, kiwi plants and creeping fig. That would be mainly at the west and east elevations, but I believe if we're leaving the windows, we could, you can have it where appropriate and it's just a consider. Those are all the items that I have on my list if I was missing any, please correct me. Okay, seeing no one, check in with planner McKay. Do you have a list or you need any clarifications? I believe I have everything down. Thank you for that summary. Great, and to the applicant, any concerns with the shouts or considers? None, we're good. Okay, thank you very much. So, do we have someone who would like to add those friendly amendments to the motion? I move to add the friendly amendments to the motion as read by chair King. Thank you, board member Wegel. Does the motioner accept the friendly amendments? Indeed, yes. And does the second accept friendly amendments? I do. Great. And just point of clarification, this is design review approval with these shouts and considers being final review by staff. Is that correct? Yes. Yes, okay. So with that clarity and the friendly amendments being accepted, I will ask Patty for a roll call, please. Okay, board members roll call vote. Board member Wicks. Aye. Board member Wegel. Aye. Board member Sharon. Board member Birch. You, aye. Vice Chair Hitchcock. Aye. And Chair Kincaid. Aye. Great, unanimous approval. So thank you to the applicant team and to Tim Shannon and his group for bringing this project forward. We look forward to seeing it get built and the street improvements taking place. Thank you for the conversation. Thanks a lot. Yep, have a great evening. Okay, moving right along, we are on agenda item 8.2. This is a concept design review item, Stony Oaks Apartments located at 2542 Old Stony Point Road file number DR21-002. And we have Senior Planner Adam Ross to present to us. Welcome Senior Planner Ross. We actually do not have Senior Planner Adam Ross. We have City Planner Connor McKay here to present this concept design review item. Great, welcome back again, Connor. Thank you. So yes, we have a Stony Oaks Apartments concept design review project file number DR21-002 located at 2542 Old Stony Point Road. So this would be a 142-unit multi-family affordable housing development located on a 4.39 acre lot. As you can see on the slide, there is a bedroom unit breakdown on that chart. So the project site is located at a currently undeveloped parcel in the southwest quadrant of the city of Santa Rosa. Oh, I still have my camera on. Sorry about that. The west side of the project site is currently, there's a grove of trees that is anticipated to be maintained throughout proposed project development. The general plan land use designation of the project site is medium-high residential, which allows for 30 units per acre. This would allow for... Apologies, so the project is seeking a state density bonus because the proposed density is greater than the general plan land use designation allows for by about 15 units, which is what I was looking for, but I believe the proposed project includes about 15 units more than what would be allowed by the general plan. So a state density bonus is being sought for approval. And the zoning district is R330, which allows multi-family by right and establishes a maximum building height of 45 feet. Here we have a conceptual site plan. As I mentioned, the western edge of the project site is currently features trees, which would be for the most part maintained. And the site, it would be accessed from the west via Old Stony Point Road and from the south via Herne Avenue. I'm gonna flip through floor plan and elevation slides, but I have the applicant team, which is prepared to provide greater detail and discussion of these features of the project. Ground floor plan, zoomed in on certain sections of that ground floor plan. They're also on site amenities, such as a learning center and community room. So the building would be stepped between the second, third and fourth floors of the buildings to provide visual relief for the project unit plan. So here we have conceptual elevations, the north, southwest and east. Like I said, the applicant team is ready to provide additional discussion and architectural analysis of this component of the project. Conceptual 3D rendering, color and materials board. And here is a bit of a close-up of some of the proposed outdoor amenities for future residents. Continuing with trash receptacles and benches and bicycle rack elevations. Conceptual fencing design, conceptual landscape plans. So we are here tonight for the design review board to provide comments and direction for this project. The project is subject to the resilient city measures for reduced review authority, which would allow the Zoni administrator to provide minor design review following the comments and direction provided by the design review board. So I believe the applicant has a presentation they would like to present now and I shall bring that up here. Great, thank you, planner McKay. As the applicant makes their presentation, those who are going to make the presentation, if you could give us your name and relationship to the project, that would be very helpful and welcome. And the applicant team has been unmuted. Great, thank you, Connor. Do you mind jumping down to the next slide there? Thank you. Good evening, board members. My name is Taylor Rasmussen. I'm a development director with Meta Housing. Meta is the developer for this proposed project. Happy to be joining you all this evening and looking forward to hearing your feedback on the proposed design. Just a quick brief background on Meta. We've been developing multi-family housing throughout the state for over 25 years now. And our main focus is really ground up new construction of 100% affordable housing. So in the slide, we just have some quick kind of financing stats and units delivered to date as well as projects completed. Connor, can we go to the next slide? Thank you. So these images here represent the construction and finished quality we strive to achieve on each one of our projects. As you see, we've included a variety of design styles. We really approach each project within the context of the surrounding community by working closely with our design team members to deliver a project that really fits within the kind of immediate fabric of that specific neighborhood. So I think on the next slide, we have some more images as well, if you wanna go down. So we are long-term owners of these properties. Full-time property management services will be in place for the life of the project. So what that means is we'll have two residential units dedicated for the on-site property management staff and that staff will be available to residents pretty much 24 hours a day, seven days a week for anything that may come up at the property. And in addition to the property management services, our residents will also have access to services such as life skills training, educational classes, as well as linkages to local community resources. So again, we're excited to be partnering with the Dowling Group for their architectural services. The Dowling team has extensive experience at designing award-winning affordable housing communities and I know they have at least a couple projects going on in the city of Santa Rosa right now. So I think on that note, I could hand it off to Lori Moffitt-Fellberg with the Dowling Group and just a quick note, the meta team will be available for any questions at the end of the presentation. But go ahead, Lori. Great, thanks, Taylor. You guys are always so good with your Zoom meetings. I just want to applaud the city. Lori Moffitt-Fellberg, Senior Principal with Dowling Group Architects for Planning. Thank you for having us this evening. As, can we go to the next slide? As Taylor said, this is an affordable housing project. We dropped the site context in here with- We can't hear you, Ms. Feldman. Oh, yes. There you go. Okay, you're back now. You know, I'm going to apologize. My internet's been going in and out and I wasn't sure if it was on your end or my end. I'm probably just going to keep talking but it's been freezing here and there. So I do apologize and if you want me to back up just interrupt me. And so we just kind of roll with our Zoom world these days and our internet instability. But we think this is a really interesting site because of, you know, the high school, the elementary school, multiple parks. Next slide, please. Here's a close-in of the site. It's a very rectangular site that touches down on Herron Avenue but is, takes direct adjacency to Old Stony Point Road. We found the site intriguing with the oak grove that's there. Oak and other trees along Old Stony Point Road and the fact that Old Stony Point Road is a dead end. We do have another apartment complex directly to the north of us. You can see in the slide. And then the views ABC and DR, various perimeter views of the site. Next slide, please. So here's the overall site plan. Again, it's a long narrow site. We've been working very closely with city staff as well as fire to make sure that we can accommodate both the multifamily design guidelines and something's going dark. There we go. And as well as fire access. So we made the decision to take our main access off of Old Stony Point Road because it is a dead end and we are preserving that oak woodland. And so it provides a really great approach and entry sequence into the community. We do need two points of egress for fire. So we are using the connection point at Herne as well. But here you can see the predominant preservation of the trees at the western end of the site and the building in the center. We do have parking surrounding the building and Roman, our landscape architect will talk further later in the presentation about the variety of outdoor spaces that we've provided for lifestyle quality for the residents. But we just lost you and I want to pause, Lori. Next slide. We lost you at the end there, Lori, just to let you know. Oh, sorry. Okay, again, I apologize. If I'm going in and out, it's been kind of all night. I think we lost you when you're saying that Roman would be speaking to the landscape architect or later and then we lost you. Yes, we've got six different outdoor spaces with different programming for a variety of amenities for the residents. So we think that gives a really great enhancement to the quality of life here. We can go to the next slide. So we selected a building vernacular that while many of the images that Taylor had shown are very urban settings, very square-shouldered, more urban buildings, we sloped the roofs on this and did as much in and out and stepping as we could given our site shape and constraints to really create an aesthetic that will work in more of a residential neighborhood than a more urban and commercial neighborhood. This is the main approach view, as you can see on the key plan, where the ground floor is the community space, the management offices that spill right out into one of the outdoor spaces that provides for more gathering and kind of an indoor outdoor flow for the residents. Next slide. This is another view taken just slightly from the Southwest of that same area and you can see the outdoor space there. And as you look down the right-hand side of the building, you start to see that stepping of the wings as we move from west to east along the face of the building. You'll also see the striping across the dry vial. That's a pedestrian connection through the Oak Woodland out to Old Stony Point Road. That's the beginning of that and it will connect directly to the sidewalk surrounding the building as well as that outdoor space. We also are surrounding the site with a whole pallet of trees in addition to the grove at the western end, there's a couple other larger trees we're preserving along the south and then adding a significant number of trees to the site. Next slide. So this is kind of the view you would have from Herne and you can see on the key slide that's really the window where the site touches down at Herne Avenue. And so we brought this wing of the building all the way down to two stories and stepped it back with the roofs, did a lot of articulation with the hipping. You can see just to the left of that, the three-story stepping up to the four. So we feel like this starts to break the mass to the building down using both the form of the building, the roof forms, entry canopies, and then the color blocking, changing the materials between the stucco and the cementitious siding and color blocking those to create variety on the building planes and also breaking it up on a horizontal basis. So we have this sense of base to it without being too rigid in our striation of a base across the building. Next slide. And here you can see the elevations. I mean, we include the elevations obviously, but we work in 3D, we design in 3D, and particularly with a building like this, you're never ever going to see this elevation like this, but we do include them so you can see the patterning and the color blocking and the variety of massing in the roof forms. Next slide. So here's the color and material palette. We really took inspiration from that woodland on the West End and using a mix of the, you know, the panda white, which is a very neutral warm white into a warm gray and then two different colors of green that complement that. Really looking towards, you know, the cycle of leafing on those trees. It's a beautiful mix across the seasons. And we felt that that really connected the building to the site itself. Next slide. This is where I'm gonna turn it over to Roman and he'll jump in and walk you through the exterior amenities and the landscaping. Did I freeze up or Roman, are you there? Oh, we can hear you. Roman might be on mute. Let's see, let me double check here. Okay. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't see Roman on the list. So, okay, Roman's unmuted now. Sorry about that. No worries, thank you. Okay, can you hear me now? Loud and clear, Roman, welcome. Great, thank you very much. I've been speaking for the last 15 minutes. So, sorry. My name is Roman DeSota. I'm with R3 Studios Landscape Architects and we're very happy to be here tonight to explain the landscape architecture. And first, we'll start with the slide in front of you. I'll give a general overall kind of thought about an explanation about the site plan and then we'll kind of move through the various outdoor amenities and rooms. As Lori said, one of the things that we are celebrating here is the existing oak grove to the west and maintaining those trees there. But also adding a few extra flowering trees to that oak grove there. And that's indicated with the kind of olive shape or olive colored trees there. Just to kind of highlight that entry a little bit more, those trees would be typically a California native flowering tree, although there's not too many of those. So the next best thing is to go with something that looks fairly native, such as a sersus tree, which looks very similar to our western redbud tree. Then along the perimeter of the site, we would be using a combination of evergreen and deciduous trees, the evergreen trees to provide some screening, the deciduous trees to provide seasonal color. And then along the parking spaces, the planter fingers would have a nice accent tree, broad dome canopy to provide shade in the summer months and then in the winter months defoliated to allow sunlight through. So we could start probably with the next slide. So this slide is the western portion of the project along Old Stony Point Road. We're going to have a row of street trees, a parkway, a sidewalk. And then one of the things that we thought would be a really great way to kind of celebrate the space is to provide for an accessible pathway through and around the existing oak grove, coupled with areas where there could be seating. We could have an area where there's a part of a parkour equipment that would continue through other areas of the project, some seating areas again. And then even introduce a more natural play area for children using some of these kind of interesting, more modern yet naturalized play structures such as these kind of old logs and timbers. But we would keep this area more of a natural space as one transitions through here and then across the drive to the community area which will be the next slide. So we crossed through the oak woodland to, this is a more community center area that we thought would be very exciting to introduce a number of amenities here coupled with maintaining some existing oak trees. The existing oak trees would be the more olive colored trees there along with some proposed flowering trees as accent as one arrives to the site. But this area is really kind of a gathering space, an outdoor room to have various different functions such as eating, seating, kind of reading rooms. There would be a pergola proposed here with an outdoor kitchen, some tables, group seating. And then as you transition from the space to the north with the existing trees to take advantage of that space we thought we would propose more of a broad walk type surface so that the oak trees would be maintained in healthy condition. We would be stomping all over the roots but we would certainly provide some outdoor seating elements. There's a library just inside. So this could be an area where you can extend the library to the outdoor space here. This also would be an opportunity to provide some signage, project signage for the project coupled with a three foot six high, kind of an open contemporary metal fence just to provide some safety and that would wrap back to the building. There's some bicycle racks to the north, some accent planters to highlight entries and then landscaping, obviously, building foundations and along the walkways. Okay, next slide. So again, we wanted to continue this theme of creating these outdoor spaces or rooms and each having an interesting feature. So as we transition from west to east the next space here would be a children's play area so there would be a smaller play area for tots and then a larger play area for older children. We'd be using a rubberized surfacing here along with pavement and seating areas, bicycle racks, waste receptacles and then again kind of a three foot six inch high contemporary fence to provide some safety measures from children exiting out into the drive. And then again, I think it's important also to showcase the fact that trees are proposed in ways that we can accentuate parts of the building, soften some building walls but provide some more tall columnar type trees coupled with some accent trees in the foreground and then continuing east here, this would be the other portions of the workout or park course. So we thought this would be an exciting place to have a couple of workout stations and so the circular spaces there would be more of a rubberized surface coupled with some workout equipment there. Okay, next slide. And then as we transition further east, there's two spaces here that we thought would be really a great way to get people outdoors and so we created two rooms here that although similar in design, they each have a little bit different feeling to them. The first one here is more of your kind of picnic, your outdoor picnic area. So a nice communal table with some string lights set on some synthetic turf and then kind of a more informal seating, gathering area adjacent to it. And then further to the east, the farthest space to these would be another kind of outdoor dining space or room but this would be a little bit more formal just in furniture, in the amenities. So again, this might have a pergola with an outdoor dining table, a little bit more formal seating but certainly it would include some string lights to provide some of that kind of nighttime and evening glow coupled with again, accent trees and tall columnar type trees, both evergreen and deciduous. And then again, in some of these smaller spaces, we would have more of these kind of upright columnar type shrubs to really kind of accent and provide shadow on some of the architectural walls. Okay, next slide. Well, I guess that's it for me. One thing I do wanna mention that is not on this presentation is regarding our plant palette. So our plant palette is a combination of native and non-native plant species and this type of project, especially along building foundations, we certainly want to utilize a lot of evergreen, low maintenance plants coupled with flowering, ground cover and intermediate plants. So it's a combination of utilizing what we think is ease of maintenance coupled with drought tolerance and also providing seasonal colors. So we're very aware of how to use these plants in their most optimal location with exposure. And then certainly, I think seasonal color in Santa Rosa is such a gem. So we certainly want to emphasize the fact that many of the trees that we're proposing here would provide that seasonal color. And if you have any questions, I certainly am available. Thank you. That was a excellent comprehensive presentation with very complete concept design review package for us to sink our teeth into. So although this isn't a public hearing, we have in the past and will tonight afford the public moments comment. So at this time, I would like to open up the public comment period. Anyone wishing to speak on item 8.2 has three minutes available for their comments. Okay, Chair Kincaid, we're looking for some raised hands. Don't see any just yet, but it's sometimes it takes a minute. And if anybody would like to speak, if you could electronically raise your hand then we can call on you. I'm not seeing anyone step forward. All right, we'll give it another moment. All right, one last check. Okay, if anybody would like to do a public comment, you could raise your hand and we can call on you to speak. And Chair Kincaid, it looks like we don't have anybody. Very well, we will go ahead and close the public comment period, bring it back to the board. Concept design review is informal. Back and forth is certainly welcome. And comments and questions can proceed in unison. So let's start out with Board Member Wicks. Questions, comments for either staff or the applicant. I have a question to the planner. I remember taking a note and then I didn't write it down. What was the height limitation in the zoning code for the building? 45? Oh, yeah, well, that's the case, cool. But I guess to tie into that, if 45 is the height in the zoning code, is that to the underside of the mansard? Cause we kind of have mansard and flat roof, or is that to the top of those mansards in term? Cause I guess if it's a, you see where I'm going with this, the building is taller than 45 feet to the highest mansard. And so I just want to make sure that we cover that, whatever that means. And one quick thing is you get concessions on height with 100% affordable. Oh, yes, this is Acting Supervising Planner, Andrew Tripple. And I did want to follow up on Board Member Hedgepass's comment that a through a density bonus eligibility, the project would be afforded certain incentives and concessions. And one of those could be used as a concession from the maximum building height requirement. Yeah, that's what I thought. The only concession I heard was the actual total amount of units above the, anyway, you see where I'm going. I just didn't hear it. And if that's the case, great. And I should have prefaced the Board that for those who didn't hear or didn't register, this is the only time we'll be seeing this. So if you want to make comments now's the time, I'll be keeping a list so that we can memorialize our comments for the zoning administrator. So with that, I'll turn it over to Board Member Wicks, comments and questions. So this application hasn't been reviewed by traffic yet. Is that, that's my question to staff, the first one. And the reason why I'm asking that is, is the Ingress and Egress onto Herne Avenue, driving by the site today. That's, it's a fairly well-traveled site, or site street in Santa Rosa. And just curious how that Ingress is going to be limited to in, right in only, right out only. And I may be asking something that hasn't been reviewed yet because this is a concept application. Yeah, so the Ingress and Egress has not formally been reviewed by the traffic department yet. Okay, I don't have any other questions. Are you, do you want dialogue on my impressions of the site plan being proposed? Yeah, absolutely. And I think to your point on Ingress, Egress, Herne Avenue site, you could certainly, you know, make the comment that you would prefer to see right in, right out only. And we can put that in our comments for a considering. Yeah, I don't, I don't, unfortunately, there's no diesel space available from, for eastbound traffic. So I just, you know, it's one of those traffic engineering issues, but I just have concerns about how that's gonna happen. And if it's gonna just be for emergency vehicle access and all traffic is taken out on the street to the very west end of the project, that's where I looked at it from primarily. And really like the fact that the design team is saving all of the trees, you know, to use a site and devote it, you know, a good 20% of it to saving existing landscaping is a job well done. I like the overall site plan. I like the donut circulation around the project. I think it's gonna be a bit of a racetrack though. And I'm sure the design team will come up with some either speed tables or some sort of racetrack calming measures. You know, you got some 400 foot long straightaways in your racetrack. You can build up some speed on that. Love the unit plan. I like, I like almost everything about the project as it's been brought to us except for the architectural style of the project. And I appreciate the design teams referencing the residential components, especially to the north of the project. I drove around those apartment complexes in their 80s, 90s style apartments that were appropriate in the time. They're all too story. I think this project is so different in terms of its scale that it could take on a little bit more of an urban design element to it or at least the hip roofs be ditched in place of shed style roofs. Looking at Dahl's website, I see a lot of different site plans that you've done that I think are of superior design that would fit this neighborhood just fine. Well, it's residential. There's commercial aspects of it very close to the project. And I think it's okay to take a departure from the very residential vernacular that you're proposing to us tonight. I'm curious to hear some of my other board members' comments on that in a discussion on their feelings on it. But, and I don't mean to use such a harsh term like bland, but the architecture feels bland to me and it could be stepped up with even to me Mesa's goal of that finishing and quality and design style. I think the image board that you presented to us early on in the presentation, I like those slides three and four and the architectural style that you teased us with. So, I'd be glad to jump back in after hearing some of my other board members' comments, but that's what I got for you so far. I have another question. Well, just go ahead with the questions and comments. Over there, boy, go here. You can be up next. You can be up next. Sure, why not? Is there, there's not like a wetland or anything on the west side of the property. They're just wanting to preserve the trees, correct? I had kids run around the background and sometimes I miss stuff because of that. So, I just wanted to confirm there's not anything like from an entitlement standpoint that is preventing usage of the west side of the property, correct? That is correct. Okay, that doesn't mean I'm going to move anything. I just was curious. I felt like I missed it. I didn't want to say something that prohibited us from kind of a, you know. So, a way for guards that- Drew, it's just the fact of the mature oak trees that are there. Yeah, and that's fine. Yeah, I get that. Like I said, I think I missed it because there was a screaming child or something behind me. Of course, yeah, no wetland or anything. Okay, cool. So, that was the only question I had. I tend to agree with Henry. A bland is a good word. I think Metta's kind of tease in the slide three and four speak to a different type of architecture that they, as I think as a developer, have done. And also looking at Dolan Group's website as an example. I mean, like the Marina Plaza that you guys are, I guess, working on in Cupertino is kind of unique and of similar scale. But something like that, I think would be welcome, in my opinion, a more modern architecture that we find around here in the Bay Area. The other thing about the building that is troublesome to me is the size. It's a huge building. And I wonder if it makes sense to break it up into two or three smaller buildings and then provide amenities in between the buildings, kind of like you're doing in those courtyards on I guess the south side of the property right now. I feel like that would be a better way to deal with the large mass of the building. I do appreciate the push-pull kind of happening and breaking up the mass, but I think dividing this large expanse up might be nice. And I think if you broke it into two buildings, you really wouldn't lose much because you could do 10 or 15 feet in between them and you'd probably end up at the same unit count and all that stuff. And then I guess the last thing is there's kind of a, I know you've got a pretty heavy parking requirement, it looks like at 185, but then because of that, our kind of orchard parking standard gets abandoned in many ways. While it does exist, it's not what's in our design guidelines, which I think is seven or eight spaces between every finger. And we've got a lot of 10s and even more than 10 on I think the north side there. So I think that needs to be looked at again. And then I don't know what the developer is looking at, but you could also not do trees and you could do covered parking as a answer to some of that. So that if you get rid of a finger on the north side and do it all covered and then add a finger on like the south side, that might alleviate that. And then beyond that, I love all the different amenities that you're trying to get in here. And I love the amenities on the west side of the property, kind of that organic, natural play area that I think a lot of folks are hungry for, for their kids to kind of get outside and play. It's really nice that you don't have to walk or drive to a local park, you have your own park, which is really cool. And beyond that, those are my comments for now, thanks. And then Bill looks like. Yeah, just a quick clarification. If it appears that staff doesn't have some of the site-specific answers at the ready, that's exactly the case, because as a concept review, we haven't done that detailed analysis. I looked through my records as we were listening to you all. We did do a pre-application on this project, but it was back in 2017. So if you have some site-specific questions, if there are any wetlands or woodlands on site, be feel free to inquire with the applicant and then we can answer any kind of technical questions related to zoning that we know at the ready. So just wanted to clarify that. Thank you for the clarification. Let's go with board members sharing questions and comments. Yes, thank you. No real questions right now. First comment is a wonderful presentation, a wonderful package for a concept review. Thank you very much for all the detail that you've included in what you're thinking here, especially with the site and the exterior and going into the granular detail of the arbor support and even your landscape details and irrigation details of it. It's, I appreciate all of the thought that you guys are bringing to the site itself. And also that the affordable housing aspect, this is going to be a really great use of the site. Yes, starting from the landscape side and the west side, yeah, I think in general, the use of the spaces is really well thought out, well done. I really like that you're incorporating so many different aspects and amenities into the site. What you're using those, just the fact that you're preserving that oak grove is really great. I think it's a testament to values, which is I think really important for a project of this scale and of this type. So thank you for doing that. It shows you're being sensitive to site and sensitive to, that also means sensitive to neighborhood and city location. So it keeps it human focused and human scale as well. I like the natural player, I like the meandering pathways in between I agree with Board Member Wicks that with, has he termed to the kind of racetrack areas that thinking about ways to kind of slow that down. I do think raised any of the pathways they have are raised, just thinking of ways to sort of break up those big expanses. I have also been thinking about the scale of the building and the massing of it. It is kind of a behemoth there, just for the fact that you're trying to have so many units, which I very much appreciate there. And I don't think that that's a, it's definitely not a deal breaker for me as is. Drew does raise interesting points about trying to break up that as well into either two or three buildings. I know I would be hesitant about that, just if it would affect the amenities that you've gotten, that you're creating all these different rooms and the different kind of themed rooms. I really like that you're creating things for everything from young kids to older kids to the library space, to preserving the trees, to informal gathering areas, to formal-ish gathering areas. So by having some North-South alleyways, you could compliment those as well, but it just as a matter of you're spreading laterally what you kind of squeeze there. So something worth exploring, but I think really preserving what, to have this many units on the site, I think you really need to have the human scale in the exterior, which is what I think that your design thinking here is doing very successfully. I'll be curious to hear the, I guess we won't hear, but as a citizen, I'll be curious to hear the traffic studies that are going to be around this too, be interested to see about that. As far as the architecture, I also was just kind of struck with the flat aspect of it. I wanted more, something a little more lively. I think the colors are nice and you're getting to some, to try to keep it interesting looking, but I think that having a bit more vivacious architecture and detailing would be very much a benefit for this. So the interesting part of town that was referenced with some of the other comments, you're situating it into its existing context, but this part of town is very much in flux. And so there is a lot of development that's happening and more modern architecture is being brought into it. And I think that something this size could continue that. And I think that you, I think that the flat aspect for me came from, I think that having a bit more interesting and bold architecture would really lend itself to this, especially with the scale of what you're doing. I think the site and the landscape is getting to that. And I think that you're having all of these interesting amenities that are there to compliment the buildings and then have the buildings compliment the landscape as well. So yeah, go with some of your more interesting portfolio of your body of work, look into those. I think that you're hearing that from the board members and so push that a bit more. As it is now, this is a great conceptual beginning. And so I'll be interested to see where it goes and do trust staff to shepherd it. And it sounds like it's been in the works for a while. And so let's keep moving forward. Thanks very much for bringing to us. Thank you, Board Member Sharon. Board Member Birch, questions and comments. Great, thank you. Yeah, same, not many questions. It's a real, it's a very thorough package, very well put together. I appreciate all the detail. Certainly the site plan, I appreciate getting as much onto the site and preserving the Oak Grove at the West End. I think that's gonna end up being a real asset to the project and the city to maintain that rather than to sort of fill up the site with more building. And, you know, an Oak Grove is certainly better than alleyways to me. But I'm struggling with the architecture just the same. I'm struggling with, I think it's funny because the first thing that I noticed was not necessarily the hip roofs up on the fourth story. I really recognize sort of the half hips around the lower portion of the building. And it makes the, it really kind of feels like the off side of a, and I really, the project is well conceived. And so I don't want to say something too negative, but it's sort of like the, the side you had to carefully work out on kind of a track home just with these half hips and sort of solving some problems. And I especially noticed it on the West End as you enter the project through the Oak Grove and you have the community space and you have a storefront and you've got this really interesting fence and a pergola and some upgraded landscaping. And the whole thing just sort of hits a, this sort of half hip shelter on the side of the building. And that was the first place that I, my eyeball sort of said, hey, you know, this would be a great spot for a bit more of a front door of a front entry based on site plan constraints. We're gonna have this funny sort of feng shui battle with entering and hitting the side of the building first, but I think we could introduce it a little bit better. And then it just sort of spilled out from there that the way that some of those points entering the building, I just felt like that was not a, it's a bland, it's a bland detail to go back to what Drew said. So I would agree that the hip roofs and especially sort of the half hips down at the ground level and especially the treatment of the community space in the storefront there could use some real consideration. As far as color goes, the colors that are presented as the key colors are much more interesting than the renderings. We all know that that's typical. I'm much warmer to the color palette that I see on the key plan than I am to what I see in the renderings. It's sort of, with the bold color pattern, it's enough to probably overcome some limited variations in material. I mean, we're all used to seeing those materials and when they do get too close together in color, you can't distinguish. But nonetheless, the color blocking is good. I'm not sure if so much of the dark color in the insets, in all of the amenity spaces is necessarily great. That does seem real dark. I mean, the building does face south, which is super sighting for light and when you wanna use those spaces, my thought was just they're awfully heavy in terms of the amount of the dark green color inside of those spaces. That was another comment that I had. So those are my comments for now. I think this is a fantastic project. I think fitting this in, keeping the Oak Grove and finishing a little piece of this neighborhood with something of this level of quality and thoughtfulness of the developer who's experienced is gonna be fantastic. But I do think that there's a little bit of work to do with the architecture. Thank you, Board Member Birch. Thanks for your answer questions and comments. Thank you, Chair Kincaid. All a very excellent thorough presentation and wonderful comments. Kudos to the Dowling Group for really thinking on the human level. I've seen a very strong, consistent thought that the landscape and the ground level efforts have been well thought out. It's delicate with concessions and parking. As we can see, there's a lot of three-bedroom units. The financing and funding are probably sourcing this to really be a family-centric project and it's not a whole lot of one-bedrooms, like 80% one-bedrooms. And I think that's the reason why you see the parking trying to accommodate that. It's tempting to pull out those southern bays and give the landscape architect more breadth but it's, in my opinion, the wisdom of the project is that the western oak grove is preserved. And as you look at the mass of the building and its actual net square footage, there's type five and there's type three, I would understand they worked out this four-story building so that it meets all of the codes. If you break it in two, you break the heart of nature with the thorough western front. So where I'm conflicted is, yes, it's a long, tall building and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna show something here on camera, does everyone see this in front of my face? No, you're gonna drop it down and bring it back out. Bring it back out. Okay. All right. Yeah, a little further. A little further, right about my nose. Okay. Yeah, there you go. Now, the only reason I'm bringing this up is that here's a building in Switzerland. It's next to nature. All the mountains are preserved in the building. It's four-story and the only reason I bring that up is constructively, one of the struggles is as we grow vertical in height, the more rural residential buildings, even farm modern, as you go to four stories, the overhangs as they're more and more timid, if you just do a like a tracked house hip roof, you lose that 18 inch socket line as you soar up four stories, you know, for the most part that the building has that scale marching along. And the question of should it have, and it's really a master, if you look at the true roof plan, it's kicked roofs. But the reason I showed you that, that Switzerland project is, it's only using two colors, but it's playful. It kind of jumps up and down with the, between the color blocking and the windows. I noticed that the dog group has been very mindful about furniture placement, the south elevation has these, I call them, they're almost like buttresses, these key, these T-shaped forms that come out to form the base, those T-shaped forms have a master bed and it's got a small window at the corner and a long blank wall. I was almost thinking that there's not as much dresser space, but if you had a higher window, a squareish or move the window over, it would make that less diminutive. There are ways to color block in contemporary architecture that are quite freeing. The whole fourth floor of this is certainly open as Henry and Drew and all of you have said, if it does take on potentially a tone of being a little more contemporary, like a tree like nature, if you had a heavier shadow line at the top floor, if you really kicked out four feet, three and a half, four feet out with that, with elements, maybe a half of it at least, that would project out and obviously we want fire to be happy and in this building with concessions of height, I'm anticipating the fire department will be pleased with the outriggers with the rule of there's 30 feet, 15, but there's a rule about the ladders and the ladders getting up and climbing on the roof. And I'm anticipating because it's perfectly donated for fire access that if you had overhangs, I don't think they're getting the way of things. You also have a waiver with the state of California on green building, if you're four stories, you don't need to have solar panels. No, maybe they will and they could be in the center. I know it's an affordable project, so I wanna be very careful about any kind of elevation elements that come off this building, there is a cost to those. The colors don't trouble me that much, but I think the long, the large big blocks, the four story blocks with three windows across, I don't think that just a generous overhang at the fourth floor will be enough. I think you need to get playful with the colors there. So, carefully said, I love what they've done scale-wise. They're trying to not bruise the eyes, you go down Pollen at that corner. And I think there have been intonations on the board about, is that a courtesy EVA, is it accident only? Will there be bumpers with new tattoos on them if people break and try to turn that corner? Because obviously, Stony Point is set up well with all that median to take that. I think in general, the landscape's excellent. It could be a little darker here in there, that if you take the colors you have now and to Michael's point, the actual color board is a little different. It's got some richness to it in the colors. These kind of bronzy browns, turquoise bronze, that it's called urbane bronze of all things. What a selection, it's a twofer because it's trying to be urbane and carefully said, I believe it was Adam who mentioned that he's okay with the project as is. If I were okay, I would have to mandate much bigger overhangs, they're just too timid. I would mandate that there'd be some more use of that, a lot more use of that urbane chocolate color. It's just a kind of relentless march. Also that the sighting, there's the stucco sighting and then there's the horizontal sighting, body color four, it's shown in black. But you could have fun in taking the fourth floor, maybe pieces of third and running those horizontal boards up there instead of just the paneling. So the eye is relieved from that. So I think I've pretty much queued in, oh, I will say a couple of other things. Drew, you're right about orchard parking and they get these concessions and if they're going for solar credits, if they're trying to do second tier credits, the possibility of carports that are actually nowadays, it's singular PVs on metal. You don't even order from Caraco carports, you have a PV system. That obviously ex-nays out the whole orchard parking. But I will say that this is a tender study in families, a lot of three beds, the parking is there. I would discourage busting the building up because all the birds will fly away. There won't be any nature for kids, at least that preservation of that west side. And those are my comments. Thank you, Vice Chair Hitchbess. Before I make my closing comments and read through the list, when the circle back through the board, now that everyone's had a chance to speak. So starting at the top, board member Wicks, any final comments? I like what I fellow board members have said and commented on. I got to thinking about Drew's comment about breaking it into two, there's already two elevators. But I also think the play areas and the areas created on the south side of the project, I'd kind of be okay with it being one building, but I could see it being two if there was a benefit from the developer side. I too, I have to bite my tongue on some of my comments because sometimes I want to add costs to a project and adding costs to a an affordable housing project like this is not the right direction that I think the developer should be hearing from us. But I just want to re-emphasize that the contemporary form of the architecture is really okay in this application here that trying to reference the residential style that's adjacent to it is probably not the direction that we would like to see if this project came back to us as a board. Thank you, board member Wicks, board member Sharon. Yeah, I think a lot of good things have been brought up. I hope that the applicant feels that way as well. And I would be curious at the end of course to hear a little bit of how they're reacting to what we're thinking of. And yeah, I guess just in closing, I think of really, you know, as Henry closed with as well just push this, make it a beacon for this really burgeoning part of town that's undergoing some change, really make this an innovative attractive building for affordable housing for tons and tons of families. It's going to be great. And yeah, really, really incorporate all of that life and be care on your way, just keep pushing it. Thank you. Thank you, board member Sharon, board member Waco. I would just say like my thought on breaking up the building would be doing that in a thoughtful way that doesn't impact the careful consideration of the west side in contradiction to I think what Warren thought I might have said, but I think, yeah, I wouldn't be okay with it being one big building as of right now. I think it'll be more effective if it's broken up into at least two, if they can figure out how to do that. But if the rest of the board disagrees with that, that's totally cool with me. And I can just be the one person with that opinion. But other than that, I think that's it. So again, great presentation, really thorough package. Thanks so much. Thank you, board member Waco, board member Birch. I think Henry put it clearly more and put it clearly. I think that the applicant has certainly heard that the 80s, 90s residential building sort of style is probably not what we're looking for. And there's probably a good way to do this. And certainly, again, don't wanna add cost as everybody has said sensitive to that. But just to the real specific point of even the way that again, that entry point through the Oak Grove to the west side of the building to create a little bit of interest at the storefront would be another thought of mine. I think that'll solve itself if there's a contemporary angle taken with the way that the building is sort of finished out. I think that will become obvious. And in fact, probably it really actually end up with the landscape design and the landscape plan currently almost driving the building in that direction because everything about that plan has that character to it. And that's why that entry point on the west side just sort of surprised me behind the really upgraded fence and pergola and furnishings. And again, just, I think that will solve itself when the roofs and the basic character of the building in some of the areas is contemporized a bit. So. Thank you, Board Member Burch. Any final comments? Board Member Hedgeman, Vice Chair Hedgeman. I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing and drew to your credit. It's very tempting to take the building and break it and I understand that you're giving a license to do that because they have two elevators. I just wanted to say that these are clever times when material shifts and color changes can hopefully save the day. I would love to see those windows somehow in sighting and color blocking utilized and some of the cheeks have so few windows. Maybe with lower dressers. I would like to see a few more windows. But again, I'm confident Don Group can do a wonderful job and to Michael's point, the use of these kind of half-dip clam shells around the building, I think with overhangs that are flat outriggering, a more cubic volume stepping up and letting nature and all the trees do the rest. That's a wonderful thing. Though there isn't a plant power right now, Adam, not to get in your lane, but ginkgo trees would look gorgeous massively. I think they get to 172 feet in 300 years, but there's some wonderful trees to pike it up that don't affect, do not affect fire if on the outside of the building, the fire department is not fussy with that. That's it. Thank you, Vice Chair Hedgebeth. I would agree with my colleagues on the board. I found the concept package to be very thorough. I first thought I had was quality. I too was drawn to the landscape amenities considerably more than the architecture. And I do think that it was well said that that can certainly start to drive the architectural redesign. I also thought there should be more pedestrian connections to the south sidewalk that would get you to the thoroughfare, if you will. And those could certainly be done with, you know, calming measures per traffic, speed tables, you know, coupled with crosswalk highlighted areas to take the pedestrians from the building proper over to the south side. A few of those would go a long way, I believe. So what I'm gonna do is read through the comments and then let's hear from the applicant team and see if they have any questions, clarifications and their general response to our design comments. Let's see, so I just go, who's that? This is Taylor with Meadow. Hi, Taylor, how are you? Now a good time to jump in or... Oh, yes, certainly. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Yeah, yeah, no, it's certainly a good time to jump in. I was just gonna summarize our comments, but if you've been intently listening, then we'll take your thoughts and response right now. That's fine, go ahead. And I'm sure Lori, you know, might have some specific comments or questions, but I just wanted to state that, you know, we really appreciate the thoughtful insight that you all gave, you know, we'll strongly consider the feedback as we continue to proceed through the development of the design. We'll see what we can be done here and still meet our budget. But again, just wanted to state that I really appreciate the comments. And Taylor, if you want me to jump in, is this an appropriate time to address a couple of the comments? It would be fine for us, Lori, so go ahead. Great, thank you, Chair Kincaid. I do wanna address the breaking of the building because that's a pretty big one. When we started the site planning of this particular project, we were so struck by the uniqueness of that Oak Grove at the Western end. And in order to get this amount of, you know, quality housing, meat parking requirements, all those other things provide the quality of the outdoor space for the lifestyle of the residents, you simply can't fit that much with enough of a gap with multiple buildings to have it be meaningful. Otherwise it just becomes a dark canyon between a three and a four story building. And so we made a judgment call on values that the value of that Oak Woodland in contribution to the residents and the overall community was far superior to a 15 foot wide kind of slot between two buildings that you can't really ever get a perspective on just because of the nature of the site itself. So we did look at that. It's very, very difficult to try to even see how we could go back on that. I totally understand the comment, but I think given what we're trying to preserve with that West end, that's what's really taken us to the solution that we have here. For the other comments where we're always open to work with the city, work with our client and, you know, take your comments under consideration. We're always so sensitive to neighborhood context because in all honesty, full disclosure, we tend to get beat up sometimes in neighborhoods. And so we're definitely happy to take your feedback and we'll take it back and work with Madda and see where we wanna go from there. But I did wanna address the breaking of the building because that's a pretty big impact on that Western woodland. Thank you both for your responses. I think if we can provide them with a little more context on the more contemporary look that we're striving for, what I'm hearing is more in the roof lines in which may or may not carry into other architectural elements. But I think I'm thinking back to a project that we saw on West College Avenue kind of in more of a neighborhood setting that this property resembles. And it came to us at first with this very extremely modern design and we changed it back to more of a contemporary but more farmhouse type of design which fit into the neighborhood there but yet had some of the roof profiles that we're speaking of now. So maybe the architects could give a little more clarity as I think Warren gave the clarity of the reveals at the roof lines, particularly on the fourth story roof. But if there's any more kind of defining comments that would both help the zoning administrator and applicant kind of hone this in to what our recommendations are and that would be appreciated here. I'll weigh in real quick and just make the basic statement of ditching the hip roof elements, especially on the lower portions that just take it back to the 80s, 90s architecture. And to Warren's comment, he can expand on it but that deeper, taller roof line at the top when you're up four stories and you've got an 18 inch or 24 inch overhang it just is too, I think you use the word diminutive, Warren, it's too weak. So I just think that the ditching the hips for me and using some of the other elements that were in the opening slides of the presentation and a few affordable projects I've looked at on Dahl's site while we've been in the middle of this meeting I think is the direction I'd like to try to emphasize to the architectural team. And I would tend to agree ditch the hips but I think also ditch the board and baton and I think the stucco and the fiber cement is enough to play between the two. I think trying to do that, I wasn't actually a super huge fan of that modern farmhouse aesthetic that we had with the other projects got. And I think when we have new construction it's the opportunity for the team, the architectural team and the applicant to push the envelope a little bit and introduce new design styles that are complimentary to what exists but not necessarily respectful. I know that may be coming out wrong but it doesn't have to match what's going on next to it and it can be your own expression of how you see this particular architecture working. Your firm is talented enough to do that. And I think I would just encourage you to push the envelope in terms of what you think may or may not fit within the context of the site you have kind of like what Warren talked about in terms of the architecture of that Swiss project being modern and expressive, which then in turn highlighted the nature that surrounded it as opposed to I think what Henry was referring to kind of that 80s track cows look that I think would detract from the beautiful nature that you guys are respecting on this site. So that would be my comment on that. Great, I think that does provide more clarity to what we were getting at them as more. So I'll ask staff if they've got enough information or if they would like me to kind of read through my notes. I would greatly appreciate you recounting the notes that you have. Okay, super. So here we go from the top. And these are all considers with the exception of the architectural design becoming more contemporary and modern and pushing the envelope. So consider more pedestrian connections from the buildings to the South sidewalk. Consider a right in right out only at Herne Avenue. Safety is a concern for residents and motorists. There's a significant appreciation for keeping the trees and the tree groves at the West end of the property. Consider more calming solutions for the long drive aisles both on the North and South sides. I think we've talked about this, but I'll just read through it. Consider departure from the neighborhood architecture, create a more urban architecture, possibly shed roof styles, more like the slides in the applicant's presentations, numbers three and four. I think that although we talk about breaking up the buildings, the architect responded to that, that it's likely not to happen without impeding on the West end. And I think we heard from the majority of the board that continuing with the plush South amenities is far more important potentially than breaking up the building. Keep the variety of amenities as they're currently reflected and make the architectural elements more vivacious and bold, possibly with colors. The key plan colors obviously are more preferred than the rendering look. And the color blockings works well with the building massing as it stands. Some of the darker colors in the amenity spaces are a bit too much, might need to brighten those up. The human scale of the buildings and landscape is appreciated. And look at all of the elevations, particularly in the cheeks where there's potential glazing that's lacking. And look if there's opportunities to arrange the floor plans such that more glazing can be added. Much heavier shadow line at the fourth floor, consider doing more with the long elevations to break up the massing potentially with colors. Use more of the urbane chocolate color throughout. Utilizes a horizontal paneling more where there are current stucco areas. Considering Ginkgo trees had to throw that one in there out of your lane warren, but I'll throw it in there anyways. And I think this will come out through the architecture but provide more interest at the storefront on the west side. It's very bland at present. I see Warren raising his hand. So let's go ahead and hear from Warren to round out my comments. Thank you. Excellent comments. I wanted to clarify one thing. When we look at modern architecture, this is a very large but promising building. I don't want to call it imposing that the plan is very lively, very articulated. There's an A++ yell on what's going on in the plan. Let's be mindful. The word modern and the word shed, there can be a discord. There are a lot of buildings that happen between 2015 and now you can drive from here to Petaluma South or all over and they have these little kickups here and there are kickups, is that what they're called? But I think it would be an offense to be offending to have this long serene building with all of this great plan work where you start kicking it up here and there. You kind of, to me, it's kind of like teeth out of alignment. It's the beauty of the plan and going back to Switzerland again there, that building has a wonderful horizontal march. It has vertical coloration, but it doesn't pull any uncertain trumpet sounds with little sheds bouncing about. So I'm sorry that that's such a personal thought and maybe I'm only one trumpet saying that, that he would be serene to not have that kind of kick around going up there. As a non-architect, I concur. Okay, okay. So with that, Planner McKay and if needed applicant, do we need any further clarification to our comments? I think I got them. Patty, how did you do with that? I just sent you my shorthand that I'll try to make sense of tomorrow. Great, sounds good. Thank you so much, Patty. Thank you, Chair Kake. Absolutely, and when in doubt, I've got my, I got to get closer, you can't see it, sorry. I've got my notepad here full of stuff that I keep post-meeting, so feel free to email me. I appreciate that, thank you. Yeah, so I think the consensus is, this is a great project. It's gonna be a significant addition to the area and it provides some much needed low income housing and we thank Metta for bringing it to us and hope that it proceeds forward into building and construction brines and finally gets vertical. So with that, we'll say good evening to item number 8.2. Just realizing that I get down to the adjournment piece of the agenda and I see this asterisk that says that item number 8.1 requires expert communication disclosures, which I failed to request from the board members. So item number 8.1 was our cannabis public hearing at 3192 New York Avenue. I don't think it's ever too late to disclose where we were at. So if you had any communication with the applicant, I visited the site. If you can disclose that for the record. For the member- I visited the site. Thank you. Any other expert communication disclosures necessary? None for me. I visited the site via Google Earth. Okay, so with that I'll circle back with staff. Bill, do you have anything further for us this evening? You're on mute. That's one way to do it, isn't it? No, nothing else. Thanks for catching the ex parte. And that's it for tonight. Thank you everyone, great meeting tonight. Yep, and again, welcome back, Michael. Hopefully we can get together at the dais soon so that we're not in the awkward virtualness. Okay, and with that, have a good evening. We'll see you in a bit. March 4th has been canceled. So we won't see you March 4th, but we'll see you hopefully thereafter. With that, we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Good night, everyone. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. Wonderful job.