 Because of my trauma, I woke up from the greatest slumber that I didn't even know that I was in. And so having the humbling privilege of getting to work with people as they come back to more of who they are is, I cannot express the joy that that gives me in words. Like, to see people, to see those lights go on in their head when they remember their body, when they feel pleasure again, when they're able to lead from their heart, when men are able to not be afraid of their emotions but recognize the power within them when a couple is able to for the first time not be afraid of love because they've finally mended those wounds within themselves when they're able to meet another. And that way, like, I do believe in my own personal experience and with every survivor and with every person I've ever met, our greatest trauma is always the key to our greatest treasures. Boom. What's up, everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Ahn Sakyun. We are on site in Los Angeles, in California. We are going to be talking about all things sexual assault, all things healing, all things coaching, all things spirituality. Very excited, blessed, honored to have Cocoa McKenzie joining us on the show. Hello. Hi, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. We're really excited for this. Thank you. Yes. Cocoa has a really incredible background and we'll be diving deep to all of these topics throughout this conversation. She's an inspirational speaker. She's a sexual assault survivor. She's a transformation master. And she's helped people live their most radiant lives after sexual abuse. Over hundreds of women over the last three years. So, yeah, this is a very serious show. But at the same time, we have to play as well and dance. But it's a lot. And it's hard even for me to do... It's a harder topic. And that's what I'm feeling right now. And why do I... Yeah, sexuality, I think for most people, sexuality feels very heavy, especially when you tie in any layer of abuse. And one of the most simplest truths is that laughter is the best medicine. And that sexuality is meant to be blissful and playful and shared and it is not always... And the healing path to it is not always heavy and it is not always serious. So, I appreciate your vulnerability in saying that. And that's also part of the problem is that we need to shift that reality. Because when it is treated as so heavy and so dense, a lot of people stay away or shy away from it. And that's the very opposite of what we need because we're all sexual beings. And when one of us heals, we all heal. So... Just that right there is very interesting to me because, like you said, sexuality is supposed to be this consensual, incredible experience. And whenever the word abuse comes in, just the whole body is just like, no. Like, that's so not okay. And then the way to get away from that density when abuse does happen is through that lighter. That is quite an interesting way to think about it. And you're specialized in this and I'm excited to talk about this. Okay, I want to start. We always kind of start with a big history perspective on civilization. And this will be interesting to hear how you are viewing things. Yeah, for me too. You're like big history. I'm like, wait, what? Okay, leave me, Alan. Where do you want to... So we find ourselves as stewards of Earth after a long period of evolution and there's 7.7 billion of us now and there's a lot of complexity in the relationships between humans. And I'm curious, what is your synthesis on this current state of humanity with all of the exponential technology and all of the complexity between our relationships and communications? Oh, I... I feel a little bit of an embarrassment to say I don't spend most of my time considering society at large. I think my natural... where my thoughts naturally go is so much more micro. And so in all of the interactions I have daily at a grocery store, in a yoga class, so with every micro interaction I have I can see the macro, but I get it through an individual experience. So what is the current state? We are... I feel that we are isolated. I feel that we're alone. I feel that technology is a wonderful tool, but it is out of balance in a lot of people's lives. So I don't know if I'm really answering your question. You are totally answering it, yes. And I found it really interesting that you do... you've really become... you've become so specialized at the micro, at the nuance of the one-on-one human emotional expression that maybe that's something that we can see that certain people are focusing more on that, certain people are focusing more on some sort of a little more abstract demographical analysis of all of the people on the planet. So that's cool how people can ebb between those or specialize in those. Yeah, I think it all blends perfectly together. Like the world as we know it is operating as true. Like it is what it is. You have some people more focused on global scale, you have people more focused on... you know, you have global scale all the way down to the immediate one-on-one and it works. Speaking of things that are out of balance, like you pointed out with technology as a tool, it's a little out of balance. We also speak frequently about how feminine energy... there's definitely an out-of-balance going on but kind of an uprising of a feminine energy that's coming. And that's... we're starting to feel that. It's feeling more like earth energy. It's feeling more compassionate, more heart-centric. That's what it feels more like to me. And I want to hear about that because that has a lot to do with your practice. I want to know about that balance that's a little maybe off right now and how you feel it sort of rising up. The balance it feels off between masculine and feminine. Well, it's a give and a take and it kind of goes back to what I was saying about the separation because we're all have within us the masculine and feminine energies. It's giving and receiving. It's produce or rest. It is the head and the heart. Like we all have that. And so I think as society evolves, we are becoming more emotionally intelligent and there is... Women are creating more of a... Women are stepping into more of our fullness. And I know that that also requires for men to step into theirs because you can't have one without the other because that masculine and feminine I don't view it as two separate things. I view it as a scale. And that applies to good and evil, black and white. I view everything as a scale. And so I feel like as a society we are coming a little bit more back into center. But I have to ask you a little more about that. Yeah, that's right. That's how I feel about it as well on a scale and coming more towards an equilibrium. Now, this is so in my... In my very deep inexperience with what... With sex and relationships and love and abuse. It's quite a beautiful yet complicated thing as we were pointing out earlier and it can be dense, it can be light. It's kind of... So tell us about what it's been like working in this field leading up to... We'll go leading up to what was... Leading up to like 2012 but like what's it been like working in the field? It's been the greatest gift in my life. I... Because of my trauma I woke up from the greatest slumber and I didn't... That I didn't even know that I was in. And so having the humbling privilege of getting to work with people as they come back to more of who they are is I cannot... I cannot express the joy that that gives me in words. Like to see people... To see those lights go on in their head and they remember their body when they feel pleasure again when they're able to lead from their heart when men are able to not be afraid of their emotions but recognize the power within them when a couple is able to for the first time not be afraid of love because they've finally mended those wounds within themselves and are able to meet another and that way like... I do believe in my own personal experience and with every survivor and with every person I've ever met our greatest trauma is always the key to our greatest treasures and we are not without choice and we are... We absolutely have everything we need to heal and to live in wholeness and it is not an easy journey and again it's because of that the social conditioning around sexuality men and women vulnerability the processes that we have set up as a society and then the heaviness that... like as a result all of that feels heavy to most people and so we steer away from our bodies, our emotions, our sexuality and it keeps us numb and then we have a society that is disconnected and in pain and unable to relate and have everything that they want because what we want is usually you know, locked behind some very scary guarded door scarily guarded door I don't even have scarily as a word when I'm making it up I need it to be a word right now so... That was... well behind our traumas are some of our greatest treasures I've always found that to be true if it is not without like great dedication to get to that point but I have seen that if a person commits to themselves their gift is like you get to it through the path of pain, suffering, trauma like... but because again I believe everything is one so your greatest fear and your greatest desire it's the same thing where are you on that scale so if you're experiencing deep depression and fear of being intimate to the level of pain that you're experiencing that pendulum like it has to swing equal and opposite the other way if you're willing to do the work and I know for me I didn't see anyone in my life do it like I didn't have... I wasn't raised in a community where I could look at the elders and go I want my life to look like yours you're doing something right I didn't have that and so growing up there wasn't a... I wasn't given the tools to do that and then through my trauma I was raped in 2012 I remember googling what do you do when you're raped and rain was the only thing that really popped up and when you're inside of so much trauma you're literally reduced to infancy so I couldn't read like I just saw a white screen with a ton of black words and I was like I... I don't know what to do with that and what I needed was somebody to break it down and to give me the tools and what I've been blessed with now is wonderful people that have taught me and that's now what my whole life is dedicated to is helping people really, really, really live a life that they love and it doesn't matter what you've experienced yeah, yeah, that's a lot but it's all good there's a lot there there's you talking about this well, what is like a moment of full, like you said radiance that comes on back online on people when they get to work through their trauma and swing back over to that side of wholeness for themselves and that is beautiful and that's so important to that you're catalyzing that for others and that you're making actually programs to do so at larger scales which we'll talk about and then through your own story maybe take us through your own swinging of your pendulum oh god and I the best way I've been able to describe how I was immediately after the assault was like the walking dead I didn't feel I didn't feel alive I couldn't I couldn't do anything I couldn't sleep because I had nightmares of being raped in every possible way that you could I put this brick wall up around my heart and around just around all of life because I would feel like I'd be going through day to life and I would feel the emotions start to come up and I physically remember being like I like push it down like it felt like water like the dam was gonna break and I didn't have the tools to process that I yeah it was it absolutely took the life out of me and because of all of that it's also given me everything that I have now but that's been one hell of a journey so let's see I mean immediately after the assault I went through I got to file I chose to file with the police I had a wonderful officer thank god because you were thrown into an interrogation room and that is the scariest thing because all my subconscious knows of an interrogation room is when I'm watching a movie and someone's in trouble so I'm thrown into an interrogation room going through the you know official report and it like I just could feel nothing like the words were coming out of my mouth but I did not feel alive it was completely numb is that standard procedure for reporting to be in an interrogation room yeah if you do it at the police station yes you can report sexual assault through a doctor through a therapist through a gynecologist through I didn't know that at the time yeah this is the educational piece to things because getting to report through your doctor you know another I just helped a woman report and she went through a therapist I was there her therapist was there and we called an officer in so we were in a more safe environment like your system is more calm but I didn't know that it was my first time so now looking back I'm like shit I really wish I had someone to walk me through it so I was thrown into an interrogation room I did the I gave the full recount of what had happened to me which is heart like trauma it splits inside of so it splits the you know your body from your mind from your emotions and then it also splits your mind into two so the story of what happened and like the effects and how you feel it splits in your brain so it's why oftentimes we sound like we're not telling the truth because your brain's literally split and so in trying to recount the story it's so hard because you're like you can't remember all the details and I felt really bad for not remembering everything I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to be able to give like a detailed bullet pointed recount of the experience and I couldn't because my body as a loving act did this you know protective mechanism of numbing me so I went through that I moved the police officer took me to the hospital which is where you meet with a trained nurse to go through the rape kit which is the forensic exam and that was the hardest part about being raped because I already felt I hated my body like I felt him all over me it didn't feel like my own body anymore I felt dead inside I couldn't scrub my skin enough and so to go into you know to be driven in the back of a cop car after being in an interrogation room to going through a forensic exam and then dying my skin blue I felt like a science experiment and I just checked out because I couldn't handle it I had no clue what I was getting into and I'm very grateful for that process now but in the moment it was hard the governments also changed the rape kit process to make it easier but they did that after I already had mine driven in the back of a cop car afterward to the hospital yeah and having your skin died blue to tell oh man it was because you're having to tell the story again because the police report and the nurse they haven't had time to sync up you're doing it again for the nurse I had to tell them again which just felt like it felt like a joke to me because I was in so much pain and I was so angry having to like I was getting angry with the nurse for making me tell her even though in hindsight she was doing her job and she was helping me but I was too in my own trauma to understand that and it's hard like it's a cold sterile room it feels you feel like a science I felt like a science experiment and they like they take photos of everything they take skin swabs they ask you you know where on your body will there be the most evidence and you know for me that was my vulva my anus my back like and so to already be so violated and then to have to sit there and do it again is really difficult and I wish I had known better because there are things that you can do to make that process easier and that process is the biggest investment I made in feeling powerful had I not reported and gone through that rape kit I would not would not be able to heal the way that I have healed like that gave me my voice it gave me my power back it helped me to to stand proud it helped me to reconnect to my body like as hard as it was it's been ten times better and I I don't want anyone to be to avoid the more like immediate hardship for a long-term gain like this was back in 2012 the system's gotten a little bit easier since then and now we have women who are creating systems to help because assault in America happens every one minute in eight seconds no one's talking about it that's a lot yeah yeah 95 go unreported and I know 95% go unreported I believe that our silence is that because you like follow up with them like later in their life and ask them and they said they didn't report it is that how we know that statistic it's on rain this programs has evolved over time but at the time when this was happening you had a limited amount of tools available for you or Google searching and now people like you are making the tools to make this significantly more like you said you gained power back by reporting it and that's a huge part of this point because having this easily available kit and like e-guide electronic guide to help with this process more easily yeah I think trauma happens when the system is shocked so we need to reduce shock what I am creating is that it is a a very simple breakdown of one of the most difficult processes you could ever go through so again you can't like for me and for all of the other assault survivors that I've spoken with worked with and trauma specialists like we know that the brain can't take in that much information after any level of abuse whether it's sexual or not so the reason why I couldn't process Reign's system was it was just too much for me so I've created fresh which is in a free e-guide and it's the immediate starting point post sexual abuse so there are I teach you how to the best practices for filing for reporting an official for officially reporting for there's a rape kit guide what to bring, what to avoid what evidence is how you store it where you submit it how to tell someone and who to tell practices to keep you calm through the entire process that in it's just you know the checklists are like one to two pages and so had I had that it would have drastically limited or reduced my the trauma and that's my hope and what it does for others you started this list and this list is you said you know checklist guide preserving evidence, how to file a good report who to tell, how to tell them how to remain calm these best healing practices in a very like you said for one of the most traumatic experiences a simple breakdown of how to handle that to provide to people yeah and it's with such deep humility that I create everything that I do because I am not a doctor I and I really understand that it's such a personal journey but as a survivor myself and as someone who bled, walked and crawled her way back to life like I speak and I create from an honest, vulnerable sincere place and I don't claim that it will that it's perfect but it's gotta be helpful and that's my heart for it so it's what's the are you are you comfortable talking about the violation of consent that happened with the with the guy? for me for me there wasn't any he didn't have consent so it was a complete and total violation yeah I and was this how does someone do that to someone else what was going on were they intoxicated, how does someone do that? I thought a lot about that and the only explanation that lands in my heart that feels true enough for me to believe and like put my life on is that hurt people hurt people I know anything beyond that I don't know so healing hurtness can save a lot of other people from being hurt oh yeah I believe the ripple effects of one person is being hurt can just go and butterfly effect out if that's not healed quickly yeah I mean hurt and healing have the same ripple effect I believe like if you're hurt you're having maybe a more of like a slightly negative ripple effect and then if you're healed you can give like a positive ripple effect yeah but it's one drop for every healing act it's a drop for every hurting act it's a drop of positivity or negativity yeah okay what the fuck how you feeling trying to stay light and trying to stay light you can tell that you after seven years feel more that you're doing the work and you know me I'm sitting here trying to make sure that that other I don't know part of me part of me is reminded about how I try and help men sometimes realize that women give birth and try and get behind the eyes of women that are carrying a child within them for nine months and trying to help you know you're trying to you know you're helping me right now get behind the eyes of what it's like to you know have your consent violated in an abusive assaultive way and then go into like an interrogation room with cops and then a hospital like that's just yeah and science experimented I think stories like that can drive more empathy for men to to care more about about listening to care more about helping make sure that other men don't you know violate consent that they're hold themselves to accountable for that there's like a kind of a controversial like controversial like Gillette ad that was do you ever see that yeah Gillette just played like an ad that had like trying to get rid of like toxic masculinity and try and you know boost up like good masculinity and then it became kind of like a hit piece for some conservatives to say that like screw Gillette you know and like for me I thought there was a lot more nuance to it like I thought that it was actually like kind of important in some ways for men to like see that and say like yeah like like I want to be I want to be held I want to hold you know I want to hold consent as something that I really care about I want to help other guys you know hold consent as something that they care about there was there's more nuance to it but I think the consent when I boil down when I ask what is beneath consent what's consent stems from to me it's respect personal respect because if you don't have personal respect you can never respect another so if a human does not like themselves take care of themselves is not happy with themselves that is going to be exactly what they put out and so consent while it's incredibly important I think as a society we actually need to go deeper because we wouldn't be dealing with consent if you and I respected if I respected myself and you respected yourself meaning at large like because then when someone says ah no thanks it's not personal and you respect that person's desire declaration opinion it's about being secure in yourself and if we had humans that were secure in themselves I really believe we would experience far less bullying abuse assault all of it that's a great perspective on it agreed yeah gosh it seems like such a simple thing to respect someone else's sovereignty in the way that they say that they are not interested in just is it though do most people do most people live like follow their own desires trust themselves do most people trust themselves no not really do most people actually live there alive in a way that is fulfilling to them we all think we wouldn't we wouldn't perform the same catastrophic actions as an Auschwitz guard but due to the environmental circumstances that we may be under it's hard to say if we would or not and so for example if you take the trauma of someone like potentially the person that that violated your consent that it's hard to say that you would be a better person because there is something so traumatic buried inside that hurts hurt and I don't he didn't he just violate my consent he violated my mind my womb my body my blood my dreams my ability to have a period he violated my trust in myself my trust in every single human I encountered for years trauma affects a single area of our lives and so does the healing and it goes back to hurt people hurt people and I also have to imagine that somebody who can do that like you brought up the Auschwitz guard somebody who's capable of this level of treatment they learned it from somewhere their environment some stimuli from potentially transgenerational potentially from TV or music or wherever else yeah so there's it's crazy how you talked about also the violation of the mind and the dreams there's a lot it's deeper it's like a multi it's a multi faceted multi-year integration of trauma for healing and so you're you know and this is also there's different trauma comes in different ways there's a significant consensual violation and a rape there's like an abuse there's just like a physical abuse maybe of like of a hitting or something like that of that kind of a trauma but the mind and the body don't actually register it that way humans do that humans put the titles on it from a scientific medical perspective trauma is trauma doesn't matter if it came sexually it doesn't it doesn't matter because it makes me sound super insensitive but according to the chemicals produced in your brain it's not different so I mean continue but I just thought that was important so what's do we know like a neurological or like physiological change that trauma makes on the physical matter of the brain the physical matter I'm not sure I know that trauma disrupt sleeping patterns it changes organ function it impacts communication it impacts I mean we are holistic creatures so everything everything has cause and effect and trauma is not excused from that natural law so it bleeds into every area of your life yeah yeah I see what you're saying sleep and communication all these things that are affected okay and then it's crazy to think that a physical abuse and like a sexual abuse can have a almost same traumatic effect on the mind even though they're like different in a huge way that's yeah PTSD is PTSD interesting like so then is the fresh what you're making and have made and available on the website which is the links in the bio that walks through all different any kind of PTSD any kind of trauma integration no fresh is an e-guide for your starting point post sexual abuse post only sexual so not physical it's only sexual it's only for sexual abuse okay gotcha cause it's how to file a sexual assault report it's great kid it's who to tell and stuff some of that blends over though into physical like who to tell how to file a police against just physical as well so there's some lead over I guess yeah yeah some overlap um wow okay now so now so now how do you like tell us about your like you know you started us off with tell reporting it gave you power and then and then where did the power how did the power how did you integrate the trauma and overcome the adversity to even start going and and being very powerful with your story and leveraging that like your pendulum swing tell us about your pendulum swing and then how you went and even started helping others yeah oh good well what fueled me in the beginning was say it yeah was just a very big fuck you was all I felt and I felt so much shame and guilt and like it was it was crippling and I remember thinking pretty immediate after the event what if what if this happened to someone else what if he did this again and then like I just felt like I felt like my chest was caving in and I felt like if I didn't do something I would be helping him do it to someone else and that like even now like my body just wants to like crawl like I just oof so what that was my driving force for a very long time was a lot of anger and the determination to make sure he never did it again and most assailants are repeat offenders because we're not reporting them because they're not getting in trouble because we're not making them change and so the thought of me not doing everything that I could like that would have ruined my life so for the next two years I was basically silent because I was so afraid of burdening anyone and I really did not want anyone's pity so other than my detective because I had filed a criminal lawsuit my detective and a couple other people like involved in the case I basically did not tell anyone I had a partner at the time and he was wonderful he was my backbone through the entire process and I am eternally grateful for him but I really I didn't allow myself to begin to heal because I was holding everything in I was holding the trauma in with my voice with not being honest I and because I felt like all I had was my anger that if I let go of that what would I have and that was very scary um and that drove me for about two and a half years and then I had stress induced hemorrhaging from my vulva that hospitalized me twice and I remember I was like in and out of consciousness but I don't know if this actually happened in real life but it happened in my reality where I thought like one of the nurses or doctors or someone it was a man like grabbing my shoulders and being like you need to figure out how to share you need like you are, I think I was 22 at the time 23 or something you are so young this should not defeat you you need and I remember leaving the hospital and going well I don't know what to do I was like I was not in a drug therapy but that for me was not helpful because I was already in my head I was analyzing everything I was keeping myself safe as hell I didn't trust anyone I was on I was so vigilant with all of life like I had like nine hamster wheels going in my head managing every single situation trying to keep myself safe I didn't need to be in my head zero emotions because they all freaked me out and I didn't know how to process them so I needed something else and while I know therapy is very helpful for a lot of people and I'm grateful for it it's still true that it didn't help me um so after the after being hospitalized I I had decided that I would do whatever it takes to heal because I was not going to let this man ruin my entire life yeah like 70 more years of happy potential happy flourishing life and I didn't know how I was going to do it but it didn't matter I was so determined to go to the ends of the earth to find it to swing your pendulum to the opposite side quickly and yeah even just saying that is like how does one do that how does one swing it quickly and you gotta have a lot of crazy yeah I fully owned my crazy it's the only reason it's the only way this got done because I was crazy enough to be like no I'm tired of my nightmares I'm tired of not looking in the mirror and seeing my rapist I am tired of not being able to trust anyone I am going to figure this out if it kills me because it's the rapes and like all of the PTSD and the side effects is going to kill me or I'm going to die trying to figure out how to be happy and thank god yeah I can it's actually just thinking about the amount of course all stress over and over again just dramatically replaying and being fearful that would be so bad on one's health so bad on one's flourishing so to swing back the pendulum and figure out how to help it's like two things it's figuring out how to A. prevent this in the first place prevent an assault and rape in the first place and then two is when in these circumstances to figure out how to swing the pendulum back to test for all trauma this can somewhat be applied to the trauma experience from maybe like a very close like friend or parent dying something like another trauma of sorts that people experience and like to replay like a death over and over again versus to swing a pendulum back over quicker this is a good analogy I think yeah so it's so your specific pendulum swing you roared and you were crazy it was crazy I was crazy I left my former career and I literally went to the ends of the earth where I was met by the most incredible souls I studied sacred ancient body work and I sat with grandmothers in their indigenous tribes going through ceremony I sat around fires and was blessed by native women I gazed with infants I did yoga, meditation trauma release breath work I did dance therapy I lived in Hawaii for three months got my hands in the dirt every day because it made me feel alive there was nothing that I didn't do and that is when I realized that there's no separation between anything so if trauma hits every layer of our being then the healing has to hit every layer of our being and that's sexually emotionally, physically healing intellectually healing, cellular healing ancestrally healing to get back to bliss so I studied and my entire life is dedicated to healing for another maybe two years timeline is not really my thing but another two years and then I just naturally fell into sharing what I had been gifted and now I see the importance and the impact of sharing and healing and getting back to the life that we love and that it's always worth it so that's my like yeah so when you work now you illustrate this you know if trauma hits all these different parts of our life then healing has to hit all these different parts of our life how do you go about you know you listed this incredible like hands on the dirt body work infants grandmothers like you know like that's all over healing all over now does that same style apply to the people you do one on one coaching with through this healing process how does that work how do you like how do you deal with the clients trauma and then help through the process of healing I currently have two ways that I get the privilege of working with people one is an immersion and then one is hourly like regular hourly sessions so with the immersion it is a deep dive and it's 48 hours they go off the grid and we meet everything that arises and we do the work and people leave with total transformation they leave in their power they leave knowing how to address every issue that comes to them they leave more connected to their bodies and their joy again and feeling able to feel safe again they leave able to communicate and feel powerful and clear and just in their communication it's the biggest gift of my life every time I get to work with someone it changes me like I am so humbled by it and so in that it's we work with all seven bodies so there are you know you're there's the most modern talk therapy practices we address you know the prime olympic and cortical aspects of the brain we we pattern very old limiting beliefs we get you into your body there's breath work there is body practices I also do the sacred body work which is like it's like a three hour massage there's energy practices for people who are open to it there are spiritual releases there's nothing that we don't do because they're worth it because their life it matters and then in the coaching it's a lot of the same practices but broken you know it's less of an immersion and a deep dive and it's more of a drawn out journey so that's how that's how I'm able to help it's catalyzing the healing all over and then you do like a 48 hour immersion as the first process with them typically and then it's kind of like a per case basis of figuring out if they need to check in like for a couple hours at a later time like in a couple days yeah well in the immersion because it is such a transformation and they need time to integrate part of that package is a couple of follow up either in person if they're close enough or virtual sessions to really help them like ground and make it a real part of their lives and to not just go from this deep awakening to I'm right back to my patterns like the reason why it works is because it's so practical and broken down so that when they leave they have tools to meet every moment and but it's also a lifelong journey that we do need support on what would be some of the major takeaways for you from the hundreds of people that you've helped in the one on one major takeaways major takeaways I'm getting like seeing so many faces and I just see everyone smiling with tears in their eyes and it means I know that it's meant something different for every one of them but it is that true moment of like I can breathe again and it's it's that moment of them getting exactly what they need so it's probably not answering your question no it is that's a huge takeaway it's just it really resonates because I can't imagine 70 years of not of living a completely different life because I wasn't able to swing back a pendulum yeah so when you do get it swung back and that like you're saying this arises of that the tears and the huge smile that that yeah it's good we have fun we have fun while we do it too you do yeah there's body work practices sometimes we garden sometimes there's art involved sometimes there's tongue trick practices like it gets fun yeah you have to be like playful like this it's so hard for me to laugh during this but I'm glad that you're you know we on you are helping people heal you are giving people the opportunity to come back to life to feel again to have better sex to be more confident you are helping people like that like as a survivor please hear that you are helping us and you're making a positive difference and that's a lot okay I hope to do better at that better understand how exactly I do that and help other people do that as well so it means a lot to me and hopefully to just thank you and just again I just I can't it's hard to even process all of this really so yeah I think for me it's people humans we're not super motivated to do something when feels heavy we're not sure we can do it we're not sure how to do it it like the mountain just like stacks but what is that perspective costing us because our thoughts are our first reality and you are choosing not you specifically but you are choosing heaviness when what we the perspective we could have on this is you can do it you can do it and we're gonna change rape and sexual violence around the world and it is not it's not the hardest thing you're gonna have to do the assault was the hardest thing you will have to do the healing not the hardest thing living with the assault that's the hardest thing healing from it not but we don't hear that enough and so when as a survivor when I'm looking at my options it's like humans are motivated when they feel like they can and they know how and we're not otherwise Jesus there's a lot of rhetoric that just occurs in the political sphere about this and it's just kinda like you just wanna ask you just wanna ask people to spend a couple hours talking to someone that has had sexual assault because then I think they gain more empathy because otherwise people just speak about others without getting behind their eyes really well and I'm a huge I accidentally do this and I aim to correct my behaviors because if I ever speak about someone without sitting down with them for a long conversation this conversation changed the way that I think about this subject for the rest of my life and so if we have more people sit down for an hour and talk to someone that has went through this process I think it will drive a lot more empathy and good behavior just you want to meet everyone come here come on the show I'm here I'm here so this is Luna this is my baby girl this is my baby girl and she loves you very very very much huh Luna this three month old beauty little peanut here you can sit right here to what you were saying about empathy empathy is powerful there is also no teacher like personal experience and I say that because whether or not you whether or not you have directly experienced the sexual abuse I can almost guarantee you have experienced the effects of sexual abuse so it does I believe that the ripple effect has reached everyone we have depression anxiety because of old PTSD we have people who are not in touch with their sexuality or able to have orgasms because they're sort of connected from their body to their sexual abuse so what if your girlfriend has experienced sexual abuse when you're the partner or her boyfriend well that affects you too that affects your intimate connection that effect it does affect everyone so yes let's have empathy and also let's look at how it affects me because I do believe that our experiences are our greatest teachers so that's my opinion yeah I agree there's a big cultural there's big memes moving around in culture right now about this huge memes huge and it's a memes of those pictures with the captions on it what's it mean just like information that's disseminated through culture it's what a meme is it's what memetics is so that's why it is called a meme when you take an image and put a caption on it it's still called a meme but memes are at a definitional level is just information disseminated through culture got it so these are ideas moving through culture that is original so holy cow holy cow this is good yeah holy cow you're doing it we're doing it yeah I'm like I guess I got broken and pieced back together so many times in this conversation welcome to life man normally people don't break me and piece me and get pieced back together normally that doesn't happen I really I think it was really important to melt into this with full presence and energy yeah just getting with all these practices of trying to get behind the eyes of mothers that went through the process of carrying their child for 9 months and then delivering them and then trying to get behind the eyes of people that have actually survived a serious sexual assault like that's another one of those things that's like when you really go through those experiences when you really go through trying to put yourself behind the eyes of those that are experiencing that then yeah can you just lightly toss around these things yeah but you also you're good a one on one coach in that sense because you can go between the ups and downs on the seriousness and then the playfulness serious playful yeah yeah I mean one of my best therapeutic practices for curing myself of sleep deprivation and night terrors was watching I Love Lucy like I watch it every night because I needed to go to bed I needed to go to bed laughing if I woke up in the middle of the night I needed something funny because laughter is the best medicine I know it sounds so juvenile and like I've never heard any doctor prescribe I Love Lucy but like from a real life experience I Love Lucy was my best medicine I wonder what this is very interesting because comedy as medicine or potentially like other psychedelics psychedelic psychotherapy potentially as medicine as treatment as therapy for PTSD yeah totally yeah it's so powerful we have doctors that are now working with MDMA yeah we have worked with other shout out to maps thanks guys thank you yeah man my psychedelic therapeutic journeys none compare and then does psychedelics play an occasional role in the therapies for you yeah it is an offering and because life is so personal and the healing journey is there are no two healing journeys alike there are no two humans alike there are no two experiences alike and so I at the core of my practice it is to to serve you in the highest way so every journey is different but yeah now I do that has been a huge part of my healing I am grateful to the doctors and the chemists and mother nature for giving us that life and yeah it's very very helpful so there is the one on one coaching then there is the fresh this the electronic immediate response kit then there is also the the courses, the retreats that you do as well so that's all you know www.cocoamikensi.com check it out I want to let's walk through some of these sort of like end topics let's do this because you know you were teaching me a lot about spirituality and this is very exciting stuff like you were teaching me a lot about the womb and teaching me a lot about creation yeah being the highest only the best thing ever I mentioned the womb several times about giving birth and carrying your child that's a very serious serious thing like getting understanding it biologically carrying inside of a woman for those nine months as that child is literally developing inside of her and then yeah biologically spiritually, cellularly emotionally yeah teach us teach us about this no I don't know teach you creation is the highest intelligence teach us about that courage my womb is getting so happy hearing you like hearing a man be like the womb the womb is like the ultimate creation everything is from the womb and goes back to the womb yes I mean everything comes from from like black from the depths that is our creative life force energy nothing nothing would exist without the womb without a a holding a container of the sacred and it's and it's also the source of all life and life is very light and it's beautiful and it's joyous and it's filled with bliss and it is beautiful and our ultimate gift all of us can be grateful for life itself and we can look to a woman for ushering us in I don't mess I worship the womb 100% what is this this darkness when there's no light in the womb and then the the life coming from the womb this is all yeah it's the the great void that is also total and limitless expansion at the same time you look at you can compare it to the galaxies like a all of life has that capacity and it is stored in our womb and all of life begins as female all of life begins as receptive the receiver and it isn't until a couple weeks a couple weeks in that changes but I don't know how else to say it it's the beginning and the end it's the alpha and the omega it's it is the ultimate and and we all start there and so it is interesting to see what great violation we have done to mother earth to our own mothers to our sisters to to the feminine within men mm-hmm yeah yeah I feel more yeah I feel like I've been moving more towards that on the spectrum throughout this talk and it's been very important for me to do that moving more towards what towards feminine during this talk on the spectrum and it's been it's been very good and powerful for me it yeah it would yeah yeah I mean one of the biggest gifts I was given through Darcy Bingham who's one of my chosen mothers um it was probably 2 a.m. sitting around a fire and I had she like kind of she led me backwards and I came to the realization that my greatest power is my softness my greatest strength is my vulnerability mm-hmm and when like when that clicked yeah yeah I think I think that's very true that may even be applicable for all people is to unlock their own vulnerability to unlock their own allowing emotion to feel their deepest emotion emotions are how we know we're alive okay emotions are our life yeah that's actually and before we are male or female we are fucking humans we're human we don't have a gender we are alive we are sensitive creatures we are capable of incomprehensible things to great depths we're alive we're a human we're a species we are not a gender and because of this weird power play and men visibly show when women don't like this weird thing that humans have done over the ages it's caused a lot of pain and suffering but if we could just take that away and treat each other as a life as life as humans yeah yeah that's right I do completely agree that unity and this collective mentality of humans moving forward is so crucial teach us about God being within us versus outside of us um gosh I have such my humor I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian background um and I am only speaking from my personal experience I am not making any of these statements like a blanket statement for any religion at all but for me what I took from that from learning that God was you know Jesus was this human without sin and God is this man this distant man that I'm like just lucky enough that I was birthed into a family that had been given God like oh my God how lucky am I that I'm one who gets to of all the seven billion people on the earth I'm so lucky that my family knew about God and that was so disempowering for me because it put my power outside of myself and I am never without my power I am alive, I am sovereign I am here and when I healed when I got my head, heart and body together and in communication it turned a switch where I realized we are all God God is within us I am God you are God and we are not I am not I don't have to ask a man in the sky to please hear me I hear me I will meet my needs I will be with my inner child when she's crying I will empower the woman to use her voice and speak up truth I will show up in a loving way I am the creator and that's within everyone and so going from the place of giving away my power the biggest switch for me was going from giving away my power to fully tapping into the power within and it's a game changer for me I know that religion has been a beautiful thing for countless people I'm only speaking from experience I think it's really important to talk about God as something that is all around us within us, all that is love, consciousness these different definitions of God that are not necessarily man in the sky type definition because that is closer to the truth of what God actually is and yeah we'll see how things evolve in the future of religion and our definitions of God what are these seven bodies of existence you started talking about them in density physical, emotional intellectual cellular ancestral physical, emotional intellectual yeah physical, intellectual, emotional ancestral, cellular, spiritual bliss so what are these seven bodies of existence and what's a density this is physical so it's like wood and skin but then bliss is overwhelmingly sensational inside of me or ethereal can't be described with words so there's no density I'm like 1% the way there I mean it's hard to explain and I'm not even there so this would will never be there except that there is here here is there everything's upside down backwards okay so the seven bodies so we'll just kind of walk our way through you have a physical body that's undeniable you have an intellectual body you have thoughts you can hear yourself talking to yourself it's going all day long you have an emotional body you have an ancestral lineage that is connecting you that is your past that is where you come from my cells, my DNA I have an ancestral body you have a spiritual body which is a bit it's less restrictive restrictive oh then the physical then this then this density so everything's energy again there's scale and different wavelengths we're still discovering more and more but your physicality is denser and your bliss body and your spiritual body are higher and therefore able to reach farther they don't know the limits of the physical realms and everyone has that if you are alive you have that and it is about developing your tool belt in each layer of life that will help you feel more capable and alive and true and powerful and sexual and blissful the things that we're all in our physical bodies with our intellectual minds trying to get to it's backwards we can't the tiny mind cannot comprehend the expanse of our spiritual body and our bliss bodies and even sexuality you will have better sex when you get out of your mind your mind can't fully comprehend let the mind go and let the body experience let it be swept away as humans, especially Americans in today's society we really treasure the intellectual mind and it's valuable it deserves it but not at the expense of the rest of who you are that's at least getting us to think in seven different at least versus just walking around not even contemplating these seven at least there is a difference between a physical and an intellectual and an emotional when I saw the burden of genius and at the very end when I really had a big epiphany about Dr. Thomas and the work that he did in order to make organ transplanting so widely able to happen across the world and just the hard work that he did in order to make it happen and so many others that helped him do it it was very interesting I had a moment when I started just like really the emotions came and it was just so profoundly emotional for me and there was this interesting moment where my brain tried to turn it my being tried to turn it off and I kind of grabbed my head to turn the valve off it was really fascinating and then I was like no way and then I let it go and I started water falling and I just started sobbing and like really feeling what it was like to and actually if I would have like I really strongly think that intellectualizing would have I would have lost the true feeling of what I was trying to experience in that moment which was that deep profound connection to the difficulty that all of those humans went through to make organ transplanting as prominent as it is today and saving as many lives as it is today by turning that valve off it would have so this is just the emotional body and then all the way up to the spiritual and bliss bliss bodies I think bliss and ultimate spiritual body at least some of the ultimate spirit and bliss comes from being in flow when you're in such deep it's like the most deepest cognitive instinct is when you're just loose track of time and everything else and you're just hammering out what you love doing and and so that's and you know whatever exists past the 3D realms so much so much okay let's get to these final questions because we could talk forever let's let's ask you what is a core driving principle of yours I see it as this golden pillar of life giving light it's the place that I create from it's the place that I go to inside of myself it's my first source it is what I believe is infinite source yeah I imagined a like a I don't know why but just complete whiteness and then a big golden pillar yeah yeah that's cool light life light that's a good question I actually had that's a cool way to see yourself well I had done that instinctually automatically but I've never had to articulate that to someone that's what we try and do that's what we try and do to get this heart to come out in new ways how about if you could re build civilization from scratch how would you design it I would give everyone a little Luna I would give everyone a little Luna puppy but the hashtag animal therapy yeah hashtag puppy therapy puppy therapy oh god that's okay what's the question again how would I redesign society yeah how would you rebuild civilization from scratch I've had a lot of terms so I see humans interacting without these limiting terms these beliefs that over time have created power struggle and they've created separation and they've created you versus me and if those terms that terminology that way of thinking was not there I believe we would remember that we're all one and you would be without that so like some of the terms that that that have pushed us more towards the illusion that we are separate from each other I hate that illusion yeah me too me too that illusion and psychedelics have really destroyed that barrier and made it makes it understand that we are not separate that we are one interesting cool and then how about there's a simulation so we're going to ask you are we in a simulation sure sure we're in a simulation and I've got the power like yeah you'd be leveling up it's one of those things to me that's like alright I have to choose between a belief choose between two things and one of them I'm going to believe which one makes me feel more powerful which one makes me believe that I can okay fine sure we're in a simulation and I'm God I don't know how to answer that question yeah so then mine my own as well and I'm God and mine and we're interesting that's what I'm going to believe we're gods in our own simulations that we're leveling up and yeah I love it great I love it so okay so we're approaching the exponential technology and automation age so what do we what's a good thing to teach kids technology and automation age for the kids so what do the kids need to know but their human bodies is where all of this originated from that their true life is what created is what made the creation of technology possible that's what I got for you today that was really good that was really good yes holy cow um yeah that's because without that without this yeah without this evolutionary step of life the the exponential technology and artificial general intelligence ages that we're jumping into they couldn't be here without life without this biological forms that made that yeah cause dinosaurs and chimpanzees and little multicellular ocean dwelling organisms would not have made AGI so this is that's very interesting that you point that out so always remember huh that's kind of cool I should remember yeah that's cool yeah and then last question is what do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world you every human you are the most beautiful thing in the world and Luna Luna you are the most beautiful thing in the world interesting so then the answer is you know pointed back at you so basically then everything the answer is kind of like you as in everything I am the most beautiful thing in the world yeah you are the most beautiful thing in the world yeah human life is the most beautiful thing in the world yeah it's just beyond comprehension how blessed we are to have life evolved here and it's just also just yeah anyway it can it can we could go for another hour talking about how just incredible it is that we have evolved here and yet how how crazy it is some of the some of the things that we talked about in this episode how some of those things happen it's like yeah how how blessed are we that we're here but yet we have things that we act that we do that cause such yeah such this is traumas coco this is we're creating the simulation this has been such a pleasure coconut thank you yeah it's been very enlightening again just shattered and pieced back together multiple times yeah thank you thank you for coming onto the show thank you so much to still get behind the eyes I can't reiterate it enough get behind the eyes of other people as well and as often as you can to understand their complex life journeys of what got them to where they're at for not only the hundred billion people that lived and died before us to build civilization but also when you're talking about some complex political issue like assault and rape well go and talk to someone that has actually been raped or that has been assaulted and go talk to them for an hour about their experience before tweeting about something so we just need to do a better job at really going and empathizing because this has been again just yeah this is what I think this is what needs to happen in order to create a deeper sense of humanity for us across the world and everyone go and go and visit coco mckenzie.com to actually look at these resources go and check out fresh and how we can distribute this this to more people around the world so that at the time of some sort of an issue arising like this there can be a very quick way to properly and effectively get through this and it's so awesome that things have evolved way past what it was in 2012 to 2019 of just the processes so it's good that we're that we're evolving these processes give us your thoughts in the comments below we'd love to hear from you and also you already know but support artists and entrepreneurs and people that are healing so support coco, support people like us all those links are below and go and build the future everyone we love you very much we love you we love you so much thank you again go and build, create, manifest that destiny into the world much love and we'll see you soon everyone bye