 I'm on call tonight so if I get a call I have to zip out I'll just I'll just catch up on video Charlie or way ahead of this I assume you there middle one to share the screen great welcome to the Southburn review board first on the agenda item is directions on emergency evacuation so if you have an emergency fire or something like that we will meet in this parking lot right there the South Park lot and so if everyone will please sign the sign-up sheet we can make sure that everyone is safe and out there when if an emergency happens and other people will go through the building and make sure everything else is okay item number two additions deletions or changes in the order of agenda items does anyone have any of those so you know comments questions from the public not related to the agenda anyone have any comments or questions not related to the agenda okay announcements do we have any announcements tonight during now item number five sketch plan application 17-24 of Corey Gottfried to amend a previously approved plan by constructing a 25 by 25 addition to an existing 1500 square foot restaurant at 1696 was the road was here for the out there you may please identify yourself my name is Corey Gottfried okay and this is sketch plan application so we don't have to swear you in or anything does anyone have any conflicts of interest with the applicant seeing none please describe the project basically I'm looking to expand the already existing addition with a 25 by 25 foot addition behind the diner basically to update make things more efficient make it safer for not only my guests but my staff it's basically a lot of the restaurant grandfathered in with a lot of things in the systems and stuff and I'm just trying to get it get it so they're not grandfathered and then that way we can get to cleaning up the parking lot and getting the other things after that but I think it's the first major step right now with the exhaust system being in the restaurant over the grills and stuff it's fighting against the heating and air conditioning system so it's making it work a lot more essentially and basically just wasting electricity and gas at that point you know so I'm just trying to tighten up and make it more efficient and safer for everybody I did have an opportunity to get a couple of pictures my apologies it might be a little big show on your thing but my approach and sure I tried to make them big enough so that everybody can kind of like so the first picture that you're looking at looks like right now you're looking at right here yeah so look at the back actually isn't here so you're just looking at right here yeah okay so the second picture is what the addition basically sleek will look like on the top it'll have a makeup air system which is going to be very small but I want to get the larger things on it which is to be mushrooms for the exhaust system and then I'm wondering what you had the third picture basically want to throw in a little bit of parking and just kind of show you know where the handicap spots aren't stuff that's existing parking on the back there is you know I don't exactly know how the parking is going to look next step is get an engineer so that I can you know make sure we can efficiently use the space but I wanted to kind of show you you know that the improvements that were going to happen on the fourth picture there is basically one says kitchen addition yes yep when we're going to install the addition if you guys are fine with it we are going to try there can be a window on the side there and we were trying to make it so we have to close the restaurant for a long period of time to do the addition so we thought that if we move the existing sorry no I'm good what we're trying to do is use the existing exhaust system and run it out that window temporarily for like a week or so just so that we can keep you know things going make sure my staff is you know coming in making money and that people have access to the restaurant while we're doing the project so that way we should only have to really close for a couple days at that rate so it might be like a week and a half so yeah so that's a nice overview so there are several questions that staff had and does that bring on the board feel okay with the description so far as anyone like a little more description I'm trying to visualize exactly where you are this is Parkway Diner which is where you know where the airport is on Williston Road so there's a thrifty car wash right there we're right next to I know where it is and looking at I'm looking at joint number three I don't know what better way to do it this is what now faces Shelburne Williston Road and this is the existing kitchen is that right yep and you want to add this square and in this one what is this additional that's actually the walk-in cooler that's the walk-in cooler oh I see right there on the on the plan yep so that's an existing structure right so new area is there I don't see the window you were describing what was was the window of time or a window on the building that you know if you look at the second picture there should be oh in the corner the little corner windows there yep so essentially before we install that window we're just going to pipe the existing exhaust systems out there temporarily so that we can install the new exhaust systems and the purpose of a new area is just more kitchen space it's to get the exhaust systems mostly out of the dining area but as well as getting the equipment out of there too you know I've noticed especially the last couple months cooking out front can't always control where the grease flies you know and and I feel I know it's been there for a really long time but I just there's gonna be that maybe one employee you know that may be an experienced or maybe we're still working with and then somebody might get injured you know whether it be you know my staff or customers it's really close quarters behind the counter for us and not only is it taxing on us but you can't really get away if something happens you know what I mean and I'm trying to create more space get the equipment away and give my staff more space from the grills if need be to create us to make it safer essentially but like I said before the exhaust systems are very much messing you know like a lot of my customers can't even open the front door when they come in because the exhaust systems are just sucking so hard a lot of my older customers have a hard time getting that door open will the net result be any increase in seating space for customers no sir this is just to get more efficient with what we have essentially we treat the diner like it's a museum you know people are coming to enjoy that space and we just want to make it better for everybody and I just feel that it's time for that but definitely no additional seating adding central air because I know you have window rattlers in there well we already have an existing air conditioning and furnace once we it would install this new exhaust systems we'll take care of the negative airflow that's in there everything will be even and then they should be working properly at that point when nothing is on they work fine you know there might be some updating to the systems we might have to pull out a motor here in there or something like that just to kind of you know get it up to speed but for the most part they should be fine you know with what they are they just don't work properly because they're always fighting against the exhaust system that's in there already also on the other side of the restaurant we have a stove out front and there's actually the original fan portal that's on the other side the fire marshal said that we can continue to use the stove on that side with the fan but we can't do things like sauteing or anything with oil on that side because of the carbon monoxide that it gives off from the cooking and it's not safe as long as we're boiling water making soups and stuff like that like it's okay because we're grandfathered in to be able to use that space so essentially I'm trying to get rid of that put the oven out back so that we can use it for what we need to use it and not with the customers right there so that way we can appropriately use our space at least according to the first photo number one the land you're going to cover is right now hard surface with cracks in it I don't see any downside to this I mean honestly once we get it in there and we get we're going to do some raised beds I've already been talking to my landscaping companies instead it's going to look really nice all said and done so the staff have some concerns yes so you have a copy of the staff right up right the staff which one was that comment so the first comment was whether it's intended to ensure innovation in design land efficient use of land and viability of infill development PUD is one or more parcels of land to be developed as a single entity may propose any authorized combination of density or intensity transfers and mixed land uses may deviate from the bylaw requirements the reason this project needs to be considered a PUD is because of the 62 foot setback from Wilson road the existing building is within the 62 foot setback and the proposed addition will also be within the 62 foot setback but will be behind the existing building so it will be this it's up to you guys to determine whether that's increasing the degree of non conformity since it's behind an already non conforming I don't think it it is I think as a matter of law that does not increase the non conformity but do I understand the reason if we either have a waiver for the setback or it applies as a PUD is that the is that the in order to grant the setback waiver you must deem this project a plan in a development to have the authority to grant the setback okay I don't think any setback waiver is necessary you're not the the distance of the building from any because I don't know about the sidelines if you're talking about Williston road the the relationship with the building of the overall building to Williston road is completely unchanged correct the addition will be less than 62 feet from the front property line which means it's in the setback the front of the building well the front of the building is going to stay exactly where it is right so the said that the setback violation is not going to change increasing the amount of structure within the setback and I don't think that matters there's two things there's a distance from the building to the property line and then there's also the degree of coverage within the setback and the degree of coverage within the setback would be increasing and that's specifically regulated in the LDRs but there is a waiver option should the board determine that this project qualifies as a PUD I'm sorry you can't stretch a meaning of a PUD that far so as you look at the definition of the PUD the stated purpose of the PUDs and the LDRs is to encourage innovation design layout so this isn't very innovative it's just it's just helping out an existing structure efficient use of land not really an efficient use of land and the viability of infill development and redevelopment in the city's core area so to me this is about the viability of infill development and redevelopment to me it can be anyone to me it's the third to me it's the third exactly right so to me it qualifies as a PUD under that viability of infill development redevelopment what you're taking out is three parking spaces right does that does that have any impact here we as far as the parking goes and obviously with your permission since we're including staff parking with that we thought that maybe if it was possible we could put a couple of parking behind each other on the side of the diner the one that hugs the property with the rental car company that's next to us um only three cars deep though because I I don't want customers looking out the window at the side of the diner and seeing our cars parked there um but if we're only backing ourselves in I mean we're not going to be leaving until after we close anyway I didn't know if that posed to be a problem or not so you have your parking areas nicely numbered on the plan up to number 24 and um that looks like it excludes no it doesn't exclude so 24 will go down to 21 parking parking spots right we would lose number 11 yep um we have potential there's 12 so it's only two you'd lose only two we also may be able to get a parking spot in um or two in front of the cooler around the side of the cooler there um as far as customers go is the way that the parking is numbered is that how it's currently striped yes okay so um in the staff notes there's a couple paragraphs on the parking um there is 24 existing parking spaces uh the additional remove at least two as we said um the required parking spaces with the addition would be 35 at a rate of 18 spaces per 1,000 feet of area the board has the ability to go ahead oh i'm just gonna say i've been i've finished feeling first so you're gonna pretty much finish my thought okay so the board has the ability to wave 25 percent of the required parking spaces yielding a minimum of 26 spaces which can be approved by waiver so um we i chatted with the applicant about it and um we think that there may be a way to get 26 spaces on the lot um thereby meeting the parking requirements and that's the least number of spots they could have that's the that's the lowest number right and that's the lowest number that we could approve we could not approve the current 24 we could not approve going down to 22 we can only approve a minimum of 26 alternatively they could do an agreement with for off-site parking which would require the person who the agreement is with to come in for site plan review to demonstrate that they still have enough parking left they currently have 24 spaces no 24 24 now 24 they have 24 and that is a grandfathered number is that essentially no that number is valid uh for the building as it exists today okay so so what you're saying is it would go up to a minimum the fact that they're not increasing seating capacity doesn't matter is the sheer square footage that's too bad i mean i i've been to your restaurant a number of times i've never had i've had trouble getting a seat but you know this is sketch obviously and if you feel that you can get to the 26 you know that could be the direction moving forward show us the 26 or show us the agreement with the neighbor is there any squeeze room meeting the stand meeting the dimensional standards with striping or is he already at you understand the crab was a poorly stated question i think that in my opinion that it's likely that they can squeeze in another couple enough to get 26 so four okay so yeah so show us 26 or show us less than that with a you know some kind of agreement as marla mentioned with a neighbor that shows off-site parking or shared parking matt you're gonna say something i'm sorry no i'm just gonna say i don't know there's room next door or not but right exactly may i um i i honestly and we've often spoke about it before um if you guys are okay with the the parking on the side of the building as well as putting spots next to the walk-in i'm trying to make it so that i'm not relying on any neighbors um i have very good relationships with all my neighbors um the one that shares the property with me right now um we have a handshake agreement that's we've had since i've been there where i maintain the parking lot salting plowing and everything for the year and i can use all the parking spots on this side of their building they have another small parking lot on the other side they don't take in customers they're all internal doors locked so it's only what they have for employees that they use their parking for if i need to if you feel that it's necessary to do this he will come through and he will do everything but as a relationship i'm trying not to go that far and just keep our relationships the way that they are because it works you know and and and not having the contract you know i mean we will but i'd prefer to try to to work it out for myself if you do borrow you thinking about using the side of the building well i have a thought i mean could you maybe restrict that if you use the side maybe restricted to employee parking so you know employees only kind of sign up there so we actually block that off right now i don't even let people because i'm afraid somebody driving through the front of the diner somebody coming out of the diner somebody's going to get hurt so i put my handicap sign and everything right in front so nobody can drive up and then on the other side we have one of my employees park on the end of the cooler so nobody can get in on the other side either so we block that l off totally as it is because it just i don't i feel somebody walking you know somebody will get hurt and and definitely don't want that um so it definitely will not be a problem you know i'm not sure this is you can call us a pu d maybe but if you can if you can and you you completely got ready your setback problem because you have authority to waive right so whether it's a pu d is what we're looking for the board to weigh in on today so with that core you can get direction on whether to move forward with the president so john uh my comment was that i think it qualifies as a pu d on the third criterion the viability of inf so encourage innovation design layout is the first one efficient use of land neither of those two i think it qualifies for but the viability of infill development and redevelopment the city's core area i think it does qualify on that one um why not efficient use of land very efficient use of land uh it's very efficient use of land yes peace sliver yeah i would say yeah i i'm willing to stretch the definition of pu d because i think it's a it's a good project and having been a frequent visitor of the parkway diner it definitely needs help in the mechanical section so thanks stretch today stretch tomorrow you're right stretch today stretch tomorrow so that's where we are john i'm on the pu d issue i don't think we need to stretch it i think it's fine efficient use of land sort of persuasive so we are okay so marla we are and and re we we as a board i think are okay jennifer on uh okay qualify this or classify this as a pu d uh and as for parking it sounds like uh you guys have a uh plan in place you either come back with 26 you come back with offsite parking agreement so i think we are in favor um any other direction that we'd like to give to the applicant uh more seats we'll just try to get faster at it so i think that is it are the comments from the uh oh yes please do mark yeah one question i haven't again my audience was always a little scratchy so i don't know if this was discussed but i read the staff notes that last coverage is pretty much right about 99 percent um and building coverage is 10 and it's going up to 14 which is totally totally sister so one question i have is and you i heard you talking about the fact that the front of the building is totally paved and you even block it off to prevent someone from accident of pulling in there and you park someone in the back of the cooler is that pavement required for certain circulation around the building or is that an option at this point to convert it back or convert it to grass that would alleviate any concerns of someone accidentally pulling on there and improve the lock coverage um on the site the signs that i have they're able to be moved so that way we can plow um but if you felt it necessary to go that route i don't see you know why it would be a problem so is there an advantage for whenever we get an opportunity whenever we get an opportunity we try to improve you know the conditions and what is what is lock coverage for this is right for marlo 70 the maximum and what is it with 70 so it's clearly non-conforming now we're granting a pv we're granting a setback waiver you know i could see if we're going to try to get some improvement on the site that improves the lock coverage and it looks like that's something that you know you have to do stuff to prevent people from parking they're driving on there you know bring that over to grass and a be in line with your neighbor on the same site he's got grass right up in the sidewalk it's not something to think about and then you know uh there were a sketch but it's something to think about when you come back for he or he does the fire so it was very final so so the only question i'd have about that is is there uh like an emergency requirement would there ever be a reason for emergency vehicles to want to use that space i guess they could still use it if it was grass that's something we can um pose to the fire department great i can't imagine they're going to need to use it no i would agree to pull up right here and they can pull up to the front anyway i mean it's not it's only a few feet from the street street right the other thing we could do is we could do some potted plants and stuff too and kind of fill in the space a little bit as well just to kind of make it you know some large pots and just kind of make it a little inviting yeah that would be an aesthetically pleasing thing but that doesn't improve our coverage much so gotcha okay so that's a great comment mark thank you mark that's good other comments from the board other comments from the public i've never had a problem here and i've been there all over the day it's the best diner i've ever been to i live in the neighborhood right when i'm diner i don't 100 for it yep thank you i'm there all the time so hopefully it is leave your card but i mean we are going to put in uh high efficient heat pumps in the new addition to lower the footprint um it'll be heating and air conditioning via heat pumps for the the whole addition to alleviate the central air that's in the diner that'll totally be separated for the diner will have its own system and the addition in the back of the kitchen will have heat pumps to take care of the heating and cooling so that's too small condensers on the ground no actually the condensers are going to go in the basement to utilize the extra heat to get in uh 99 efficiency out of the heat pump in the heating season because the basement won't get any hotter than 70 degrees so we're we're going to heat the basement via the the condensers in the winter time and we're going to utilize that extra heat to heat the space upstairs in the heating mode for the winter and in the summertime it'll go up to 75 and we'll put an exhaust fan into exhaust some of the heat out of the basement but it should never get above 75 in the basement area yeah is this uh is this uh on is this on slab the addition are you going to dig a big foundation for the addition oh we're not for the addition there'll be a slab yeah thank you over comments from the audience okay uh free to go and uh welcome to we look forward to seeing you again at preliminary and final plan thank you i appreciate your time take care pictures back oh yeah you want your pictures back here thank you next on the agenda is presentation by paul connor director of planning and engineering on the development review board's role in reviewing projects within the form-based code district and in appeals of the administrative officers decisions can re stay here for this yes paul did you want to use the version with my initials or the version without my initials uh with i suppose you're the one that you sent over to me because i hit save on the changes there i certainly will paul connor director of planning and zoning um thank you everybody for taking a few minutes to uh allow me to give you an update on the city center form-based code uh marla and i had the pleasure of catching up with matt and bill about a month ago uh on a variety of things and uh one of the recommendations that they had was that uh we come in when there's a relatively light agenda and given give a little more of an overview of what the form-based code district is how it relates to the drb um and and just what's going on so that's tonight um so no action required from you but happy to take any questions as we go um i'm going to give as i said a little overview of the form-based code and then tie that into appeals which isn't necessarily the same subject but as we know a couple months ago it was the same subject so it seemed like a good opportunity to chat about both so go ahead uh so basics of the city center form-based code um we started a project in 2011 uh with the planning commission and later a form-based codes committee to develop a new set of regulations in the city center area there were four or five different zoning districts that came into play there there was what we had called in the past the central district which was a um a very design-heavy district that had a role for design review committee lots of aesthetic reviews and then we also had uh our c1 r12 district which is basically the same zoning district as shelburn road and then some residential four districts and a variety so the goal with this was to pull it all together put it into a single um form-based code a few of the key highlights of it uh one is that there are many many fewer use categories in fact what we did was we flipped it on its head whereas everywhere else in the zoning regulations um the first thing one of the first things we look at is is the use allowed in the district um and if it's if it's not in the list then it's not allowed it's flipped on its head in the form-based code district to where everything is allowed unless it's specifically prohibited so that's that's a key um that's a key change and one of the two of the principal goals of that is one to be out of the business of debating whether something is a bakery or a donut shop which is a frustratingly uh tiresome discussion to get into especially when we're talking about a downtown area and to to um encourage an area where things we haven't even thought of um may exist in the 90s nobody would have thought of what an internet cafe is today there's all sorts of other things uh coming up of that you know uh growler station slash uh pet food store i don't know um i'm sorry do you want us to interrupt you or go ahead so when you say nearly all uses so is there a list of there is a small list of prohibited uses um there the the list is typically the things that you would expect would be prohibited heavy industry adult uses um in i'm going to talk about a couple of the different t zones but in the ones that are a little more residential heavy truck traffic those are basically what they are there's also a list um where we differentiate out between new buildings that fully meet the form-based code and older buildings where say if somebody wanted to put a car dealership into a building that meets the full form-based code then go for it but the goal is not to take a pre-existing building on san rimo drive and turn into a used car lot so there's there are a list of a few things that aren't allowed in pre-existing buildings but would be allowed in a new building um the only key one and we'll talk about transect transect zones in a minute is that residential uses are not allowed in the first floor of the t5 transect five district that's intended to be the real core of the downtown we'll look at that in a minute um as i said use is intended to play a secondary role the primary um review here is really about the building form if the building physically is located and has the architectural features of a downtown building then it can have many lifetimes um church street basically the same buildings have been there for 130 years and each one of them has had multiple multiple lives that's the idea here um generally uh and we'll talk about exceptions in a minute it is designed to be an administrative review um so full site plans are reviewed at the administrative level parking requirements which we just went through uh with your last application are dramatically reduced so across the board for resort for um commercial uses it drops down to parking spaces per thousand for all uses you were just looking at one that was 18 parking spaces per thousand and on the residential side it's a maximum of two per unit for the most part philosophically the intent of that is that the city is not in the parking game it's not necessarily say two is a target for two paces paces per thousand is a target for the commercial users it's really um the the the building owners and the tenants know best how many parking spaces they need so that's that's really the intent there uh there is no so we're not we're not aiming to stop them from getting five parking spaces per thousand correct we're just we're just yeah there are four things that will determine um we don't get involved in it anyway right but but but the city is not intending to restrict the number of parking spaces there go ahead what if uh from a foreign base like admittedly haven't looked somebody says hmm best thing i can do with this piece of land given the policy of parking here is put a parking lot right in the middle anything in the code that would prevent a parking lot smack dab in the middle of of the new buildings yeah so uh in any uh any time that there's to be let's assume that it's a um greenfield it's just it's just a piece of grass right now which there aren't many of but let's assume that it's that it's a it's a clean site in order to do any development on it first uh about 80 percent depends on the district but about 80 percent of the width of the lot must have buildings on it and then you can do what you want behind it so if you choose to put parking behind it you're welcome to but you can't just put a parking lot in without a building answer the question which is similar to um how the trader jose and pier one building was reviewed that's it's not a complete left turn from that is that is that consistent even if the city wants to do it yes so the city the city can't go out and build a parking garage without a building correct although there are certain exceptions for parking garages where a parking garage can exist if it's in behind a building or a parking garage can exist on certain street types uh what we call a secondary street there can be a parking garage on a secondary street there also and not to get too much into the weeds a parking garage can be built if right right on a main street if the first floor has has a has a commercial use for the first 30 feet deep it's not a common feature but it could be done somebody could choose to make a storefront and then put a parking garage behind it got it well there is well when there's key for example has a building with a lot of parking on top on the upper that would be perfectly fine yeah and it's and it's directly in behind also um there is no density maximum uh in in the form-based code district uh the uh everything is dictated by the total form of the building there is a requirement for anytime somebody's building uh 12 or more housing units um it's called inclusionary zoning for uh 15 percent of the housing must meet an affordability standard in this district it's a ramped affordability standard we can get into the details of it but it goes between 80 and 120 percent of median income but it does apply to all new development of at least 12 housing units and then uh last but not least uh i'm sorry is median income based on a HUD standard what's what's the standard okay so it's um uh the the inclusionary zoning standard says that um there has to be 15 percent of dwelling units need to be affordable of those one third need to be at 80 percent of median income affordable to somebody at 80 percent of median income one third at 100 percent one third and 120 percent and that's based on somebody earning 80 hundred 130 percent of the HUD median income is paying not more than 30 percent for the family adjusted for household size literally in each band or could you meet it by having 12 you know all of your units all of your required units at 80 percent of median you could be better than our standard so for example the cathedral square building better meaning lower income right so the cathedral square building that just um has just broke round has uh all of their units would qualify as as affordable and and and i think 30 plus of them are below 80 percent of median income so they're well meeting the standard and somebody who chooses to exceed our standard is more than welcome to and encourage to can you have a kind of question yeah in regards to that let's just say so the developer comes in and wants to propose two building on one side yep can they do something like the people square as you know as an entity and then do nothing and the other one because they're overbuilding in one to do a full market rate and then new and the other one that's like the people square or do you have to each building uh so uh you can bank your affordability so uh i would say the inverse order of what you just described if somebody built the cathedral square building and then built some market rate units then yes they can there is a provision in a requirement that the affordable units need to be on average no less than 70 percent of the average size of the market rate units so somebody's going to have to balance those things out but yes you can bank essentially your affordability forward and can you affordability first either parallel or first yeah and can you bank it from property to property or do they have to be on the same property uh they can be related uh they can be on separate properties but related ownership or related i can't just say john you built it so i get credit so ken can't sell the sell his ability to we will look at that question when it comes to us i don't know that the question's been posed but i can't just presume just about to be i can't presume john that because you did that that i get it there needs to be some relationship at a minimum yeah some some legal contract for them yeah we'll we'll work for that uh well yes all of this or nearly all of this is going to be done at the administrative level never go through development correct which one all of it or nearly all of it you'll see in the upcoming slides nearly all of it and and i'm going to go through the exact circumstances where you where you all have a run okay the most part this is really just informational so that you know what's happening in the city yeah um so last thing um quality not quantity approach to open space as you know we have lot coverage standards in many of our districts we've removed in the city center form-based code district uh um lot coverage it did not exist in our central district it does exist in some other ones instead of a lot coverage which is just a percentage and it doesn't have to be high quality space at all it is a is a uh a ratio based on the amount of building that you do of a high quality open space an open space could be an enhanced wetland or a forest area it could be a um uh a an outdoor seating area for a restaurant like the farmhouse tap and grill or it could be a rooftop uh garden or it could be a atrium inside a building it's really the focus is shifting from just a plain x number of stitches of grass to quality spaces for people it doesn't alleviate people of meeting all their storm water standards which they still have to do for local and statewide purposes but it does allow for some creative solutions to that so open space can be concrete if it's well uh if it's well designed yes but it can't just be a plain of concrete it's not just i'm paving a bunch of area it's i'm creating a place for people it's allowing for hardscape but this is a discretionary staff call about whether it's satisfactory there are there's actually a there's a table at the back of the land development regulations that describes exactly what it means to be well appointed so if you're doing a um pocket park it has to be have a tree cut tree canopy coverage of at least i can't remember the number 40 there needs to be at least x number of seating areas for people there needs to be it needs to be accessible from a door there's a bunch of different specific criteria that somebody has to meet in order to demonstrate that it's qualifying when you say outdoor seating area i'm curious i mean i think a lot of the outdoor seating area for example on church street is just you know city property and here you're talking about open space being an outdoor seating area on the property owner's property i take we may also moving forward have opportunities for folks to have outdoor seating on city property on a place like market street but this is all on the private side so for the first building the cathedral square building for instance in behind the building they've built a area for principally or uh oriented towards residents to have a little seating area um tree canopy around it so that somebody can go and read a book outside they chose to put it in the back they could have chose to put it in the front but they they put it in the back all right oh i didn't realize can you go back i thought i deleted that okay skip that one yeah just don't know nope keep going there we go uh just a quick map uh to orient you uh you've probably seen this a hundred thousand times but williston road is here doors the street is here market street is coming through here this is heinsberg road the orange which is the largest one is our t four district t four is uh a there's three basic districts in here um t four is the largest one it uh is intended to be two to four storey buildings um strong presence on the street something along the lines of say the um uvm medical center that was put up by uh the pits of galleys on shelburn road with the where the liberty in used to be that could be an example of it the t three is the yellow and the pink and the far right hand corner that's supposed to be more of a transition to residential areas uh buildings are supposed to be residential in design and uh have a certain total mass and scale a project that is very close to a t three would be the uh david shank buildings that you all approved a couple years ago right there at the east end of market street and then the red cross hatching in the middle on uh right on market street on the on the western part of market street that's the t five that's intended to be two to six story buildings with a strong commercial presence on the first story i'd say a pretty good example of that would be the larkin terrace building that you've just approved over on shelburn road strong requirements for doors at a frequent pace on the first floor the idea with that and we'll talk about it in a minute is really to encourage people to want to walk along and see what's on then what's at the next building the next building after it uh there's also um some planned streets in there that are on the official map and there's a t zone for public space as well which we already own uh next slide pause enough to set aside maybe this was just fantasy from uh a long ago planning session i was at an input session there's nothing for a civic building or a civic square uh right along market street or closely adjacent to it nothing there uh was a lot of discussion about how to best pursue that and ultimately what the planning commission decided was that the uh form-based code should represent what the private sectors responsibilities rights and responsibilities are in terms of regulations and the public sector should it choose to uh acquire land to do something larger than what an individual um private sectors responsibility that's on us to acquire so the city does have an option for instance on the acquisition of a piece of land right next to the square building that's right here the city has negotiated an option for the purchase of that for a civic site so that's how we went about addressing the current and future who owns the land now pardon me who owns that land on which who's an option currently it's city center llc which is south brilinton realty when does it have to be exercised by it was a year and within that year they would get the money back if they extended it for a second year they wouldn't get it back okay so two-year option first year um refundable second year not okay that's what i mean yeah that sounds about right and the city is moving forward with um uh the possibly putting library there just last night the issue with land that goes along with the recreation center so we're holding off on that and this is on the the same side of the road is uh cathedral yeah immediately next to it so the the land the if you've been if you've been down market street uh there's a there's an area that's been cleared the western half of that is for the cathedral square building the eastern half of that is the location where this would take place right right the entrance of central school right there and there is a plan for having some performance space in there as well that was part of the application um i did have a quick question about the southern side of the bend in market street wasn't there if if isn't that somewhat um wetland and i thought there was room for a park in there there is a there's a fair amount of wet area um right where you see the letters st on market street um part of uh part of our permitting for the redesign of market street includes a significant um stormwater feature in there and it has been designed in such a way as to be both a stormwater feature and a public open space it's going to have walking areas with with it a little bridge across the pond um artwork in it so to to make it not just a stormwater area but but an amenity so that it is it will be a little parklet um long term we've been communicating with the property owners about linking that up to the green uh home plate looking thing below which is do mon park okay thank you all right matt next next slide all right uh as i said uh review process for me this code is designed to be largely black and white um just going to walk you through quickly how we're typically going to be reviewing projects um as with everything that comes with you uh before you were we're going to be having a pre-application meeting with staff it's optional um for applications before the DRB for the most part though everybody does it um it's a required element of the form-based code in practice one a pre-application meeting really is multiple meetings um our experience thus far as folks really want to make sure that they've got their ducks and rows so they'll show one part of it they'll show another part of it uh pieces that they're going to be showing us on the site plan the arrangement of the buildings landscaping design open space all the different things that are required um that that you will see as well that you would typically see elsewhere in the city as well as um an affordability uh demonstration of meeting the affordability requirement eventually once they've got all their ducks in a row we're going to see a full application full application submitted to the fire department and public works for their complete review um the uh the applicant um is required to put out a notice just like they do with the DRB hearing um but instead it goes to an applicant led neighborhood meeting and really the purpose of that is based on all of our experience um in working with you all in the DRB oftentimes neighbors issues are things that are very resolvable the goal here is to have projects where a neighbors get to have their say and be that a neighbor doesn't feel that there will be courses in appeal that there is an opportunity for a discussion and a discourse to um to to look at neighbors concerns and issues ultimately once all those things have taken place um the administrative officer ray will deem the application complete under Vermont law once it's complete we have 30 days to issue a decision so then the decision is issued that's basically the soup to nuts quick version matt no no sorry okay so uh here are the different circumstances where the DRB can be involved um i put this slide in so that um it's a quick cheat sheet for you in the future but i'm not going to talk about these yet because i go through each one of them in subsequent slides you want to just advance and we can make this into like a pamphlet or something yeah so subdivisions um anytime there's a subdivision of land under vermont law it does require public hearing that brings it before the DRB uh you're reviewing proposed new parcels here's an example of the cathedral square one that you did earlier this spring um uh what you're looking for essentially in this is are they creating parcels that are developable are they creating legal parcels will help you walk through that that's essentially what's taking place here um process is sketch and preliminary final second thing um we have an official map in the city anytime there's a public street proposed by definition that creates a subdivision so therefore it's going to you um it's so it's there because it's a subdivision but also the form base code has certain flexibility about where on a property a street can be located you've got some review authority in there um to make sure that it is both meeting the applicant's needs and also meeting city future needs next slide intersection locations um the DRB has the authority the form base code lists out shows where those intersections are the DRB has some authority to modify those it's a very tight authority meaning that an applicant really needs to demonstrate to you how they've reviewed and made sure that this is not creating a future problem like the intersection of Midas Drive and White Street because the location of intersections are pretty critical because they're usually designed to be across from one another for so it'll take a there's a heavy burden on an applicant to move something from where it's planned to be it can be done but they need to make sure they've got their ducks in a row uh street types um the form base code lists out a whole bunch of different types of streets typical street sections um it's something that the planning commission is actually looking at on a city-wide basis to give a little more predictability to everybody about what does a standard neighborhood street look like what does a standard tight neighborhood street look like um in the form base code the streets for the most part the streets that have been laid out already have a street type associated with them however somebody can choose to add in multiple additional streets if they want the umal property came in and decided to do redevelopment they may choose to do internal streets because it gets some more development potential they will uh the board has they'll need to determine with the board when they're coming in for those streets what the appropriate street types are there's a list that are allowable in each different transect zone the t3 the residential type one the t5 the the uh more urban one but it's in working with the board of making sure that let's say there's two properties next to one another that is not going from a little narrow two lane road to a boulevard looking about transitions and things like that but we can't permit that because for example you come up to come up doors to wollaston and if uh if an internal road is uh proposed there it could be a teeny tiny road yep yep so so it's it's looking it's giving it's giving a board the the authority and an assurance to the city that um gonna be looked at that we're being looked at and that it makes sense right um the board has the if if an applicant is proposing to impact streams wetlands interstate buffers um then the board has the authority to look at that the planning commission and the form-based code committee wanted to make sure that a natural resource impact like that is being considered by the board it could be as part of a subdivision it could be part of a miscellaneous application it's the same authority that you have elsewhere in the city and the board can just as with all of the other things in here have the information necessary to make a reasonable decision with these next public buildings uh frank had asked about civic sites um is that the new library we're getting yeah you know that that one may have a few more older books than typically we have but that's odd that's the wrong text in there uh i will clean that up but um what it is intended to say about public buildings is that public buildings typically in cities are a little bit of a special creature they don't usually meet all the basic elements of a form-based code they are a special thing it's usually a more elaborate architecture or a more distinctive architecture but it might have a larger green space in front of it than typical buildings would have or things like that so the board has the authority to waive certain requirements um such as the percentage of a building near a street the setbacks things like that in exchange though um there needs to be some demonstration that there has been a public design process associated with it and that if there are any adopted or uh guidelines that have been put forward by say the school board or or the uh city council that it's demonstrated this building is meeting that so you get some some review authority and an assurance that it's gone through a public process to get to this point what do you mean a public design process um yeah what's that mean uh that means something like um a if a consultant was selected to come up with proposals for architecture there's been opportunities along the way for the public to weigh in on um on those designs before it ever came to the drb so if there was um so so there'd be maybe a design program and a and a hearing things like that on the design side of it before the independent of the drb here before it ever gets to you so we're basically certifying that saying yes that public process was held and that it was right that it was sufficient and that ultimately you have a little more authority beyond that to also say and this fits in well with its context all right next one and we'll we'll fix that um the the slide for when we send it out to you uh there's there's one specific area where there aren't a lot of options for waivers in the form-based code but there is one here um that there was some feedback from from folks along the along the way and the planning commission thought this would be a good opportunity to uh allow for some flexibility as i said before in the t4 and the t5 district there are specific standards for how frequently doors need to be placed that's a really key element of a functional pedestrian oriented downtown because um as soon as you get to a blank wall typically human nature is to turn around and go the other way and so as we talk about creating a whole system area where people are are walking we want to make sure that people want to walk from one building to the next um however there may be other ways than just doors every 30 feet to meet that that is that is a tried and true way to do it but there may be other ways very creative ways to doing it and so there is an option in the form-based code that an applicant who wants to have a different spacing of doors can come to the drb and propose uh an all an alternative your review standard in that case uh if and when we get one we'll share it with you but there's a very detailed purpose statement that i basically what i just described about why we have that um door standard in there and somebody has to demonstrate that they are meeting that intent or exceeding that intent it doesn't specify exactly how it's met um can be met that's really left to the creativity of an applicant uh so that's those are the roles of the drb in um in the form-based code they're a little disparate um but those are the various different roles i wanted to talk just for two minutes here about the board's rules and appeal board i think almost all i guess all of you have been through some kind of an appeal one way or another as you all know um any decision that ray makes or um marla or kathy as uh as assistant zoning administrators is appealable that appeal goes to the development of view board we sometimes joke that if we don't agree with lunch choice that we can appeal it but she never laughs at the joke um so occasionally does happen um it uh it has happened with things like the methadone clinic over by the airport various different zoning permits that are issued um in that capacity the board typically is standing in ray's shoes has the same authority that ray has and is essentially reviewing the application as though the board was the administrative officer and making a determination um in the same shoes as the administrative officer would be making um typically there are um uh it'll be a public hearing there'll be folks who are testifying um ray will often give his perspective on how he got to that uh that decision and then and then um then we move forward it is possible as you witnessed a couple months ago that the board could be asked to play a role of considering proposed stipulation so it is possible that the parties in between um when there's an appeal uh issued uh or submitted and a drb hearing in the subject that the parties get together and come to some form of agreement uh what happened this summer was exactly that where there were some modifications that uh an adjacent property owner sought to the project in that case um what was presented to the board was a stipulation and proposal for your decision in order that the applicant agreed to the appellant agreed to and that um the administrative officer had signed off on that part was um was important and that was intended to signify to you all and to the public that as the administrative officer in the um in the appeal of his or her action that the regulations are still being met um so so that whatever modifications took place are fully within the regulations so that's essentially how that takes place one of the appeals um refresh my recollection how if if if a member of the public wants to take a zoning appeal how does it how has he gotten noticed let's set us if you could just refresh my recollection set aside form-based code for me yeah sure you know plain vanilla current somebody comes in wants to build a house it's a permitted use you issue the issue the permit how does the person next door find out about it sure um so anytime there is either a zoning permit issued or an administrative um site plan which is the other thing that that could be issued uh there is a uh placard that the administrative officer issues that is required by state law to be posted within view of the public on the subject property for a period of at least 15 days and does the abutter get any notice other than that that is the notification that takes place currently will that be the same under form-based code yes and recall that the the abutter under form-based code has also received a um a mailing notifying that there is an application so they're aware that there's an application that has taken place which is a higher level than uh a standard zoning permit or there's time for review will run from the time the placard goes up or for the time you issue the placard uh the appeal period starts when the placard is of the decision is issued and posted and posted yes so we indicate to two people that they are in that they're supposed to post it immediately if for whatever reason it takes them a day to get it posted we strongly encourage them to leave it up and at least an extra day and then it would be up to a drb and subsequently the e-court or a supreme court to determine whether somebody had put it up in a timely fashion whether the raid did i capture everything on that because yes you're you're you're more in the midst of all those than i am that's right okay so that's my that's my summary i wanted to uh flag the appeals thing because um we're not aware correct me if i'm wrong ray but um you've had zoning permits appealed you've had um notice of violation appealed up until this year you've not had a site plan appeal typically the administrative authority in the site plan in the past had been things like moving a dumpster change of use adding a little parking area a small addition to a building that'd been pretty minor things um under the form-based code as there are larger projects that can be reviewed the possibility of an appeal is a little bit higher including the one that you saw this summer am i right that you've not had a there's one similar a little different at 465 quarry hill road um oh yeah so it's occasional it's usually not very it's very rare so that's my that's my quick dime tour um any other any questions on this yeah i'd like to know whether this is actually more i think the intention was for it to be more efficient and easier system right yeah i'm i'm interested in his opinion and whether it's actually actually is uh a better system can we have ken come up and are you willing to tell her sure does everybody know ken hi ken brayberman um a partner in snatter brayberman um has been you know chris and i have um a large portion of um the area that's designated as city center um under agreement um so yeah we work very closely with uh paul and his staff on the confederal square um project which that was the first was that the first project that actually went through the process yeah um it was a learning experience for sure um probably for both of you yeah i think it was and i think it worked pretty well i mean for us it's kind of like changing gears in a way because it's it's it takes something that usually involves a lot of coordination and creativity and it's it makes it frankly kind of formulaic um you know the code is the code and it's like a cookbook and a recipe and you just have to exactly follow the recipe and what comes out the other side you know it's really the result of the code and the recipe and not kind of the creative kind of design development process that we're used to so that's a little different and in working with our architects and designers um you know there's some pushback you know they don't necessarily like it because it's taking some of the creativity out of the process so that's kind of the challenge the the good thing is you know we all know that predictability is one of the challenges of development and this makes the process way more predictable uh for us and less you know quite nice um and we do think it's going to increase efficiency and we do think it's going to um really streamline the process in a positive way you know one of the things that paul mentioned that we also struggle with is um the lack of a waiver provision so for example um in in t five on the ground floor you're required what 80 percent of the building to be glazed right um so that's a lot of glazing uh and we struggled to meet the energy code because it's a stretch code and 80 percent of the ground floor being glazed that's that's a lot of glazing um and for example like if we were to design a building that had 70 percent glazing and it was a gorgeous building ray would have to deny that permit um even though we're meeting the intent of having a lot of glazing and a very attractive building and everyone could look at it and say that looks great you know the that permit would be denied and there's no mechanism to go back to either staff for administrative relief or do you guys the drb to say hey you know we all agree that this building is gorgeous and it meets the intent you know we would love to be able to grant you a waiver so that's something that we are kind of struggling with is like is there a way to work together to kind of assure that we're meeting the intent um you know and have a mechanism to allow us to move forward and there's all sorts of you know you know the the code is the code and these guys did a great job and and pulling together but there's always so many unforeseen issues that come up that you know you guys know as well as anyone like some of the stuff that the code just it's just impossible to predict idiosyncrasies that come up that are kind of anomalies within the code that you know without having a waiver provision it really is kind of a challenge um so that would be something that we would want to eventually kind of engage in a discussion I mean I know other municipalities like have some kind of waiver relief provision where like you know for example the 80 percent or whatever the percent may be if you meet within like three or five percent like there's a way to approve it administratively and then if you want to exceed it by more than that you have the ability to go to a DRB and say okay you know here's how we've met it you agree in terms of the 10 and because we have the ability to say yes or no or um so overall we think it's a good thing we like to form base code we look forward to kind of getting you know really um efficient and working with staff to dial it in um you know and we think it's kind of created you know good end result but it's definitely a learning process I can add one thing that I don't know that Ken you've had the opportunity experience yet so I'll I'll share I think we've heard some really good feedback specifically on the the little things the change of use um just being out of that game about I've got a store I've got a building on Lilliston Road and I want to change it from X to Y it's just there there's no more checking to see whether that's an allowable use or not it's just that your your feedback I think today I issued a permit to convert an 8,000 square feet of retail space to a personal instruction space um just with a site plan it didn't have to there was a whole bunch of steps that didn't have to happen it just here's reuse of the space waste water was an issue but we figured that out so the one area actually I mean that that seems very desirable in general except with one in one respect if you're changing from a of course you're not you're not imposing parking requirements right so the fact that it's going from an intensive parking need to a less intensive parking need or vice versa that makes no difference um I wonder how what is the rationale behind a no parking requirement people are going to go there on public transportation or what do you what do you invent how how does that conceive how are you envisioning that working well so there's a couple of aspects of it I think that um there's been a lot of research around the country on the subject of parking and I think step one with it is there's a pretty strong argument out there that the idea that municipalities have a strong rational basis for the numbers that exist may be a fallacy to begin with so we've got lots of detailed numbers but they may not actually represent reality um a very successful restaurant and a very unsuccessful restaurant of the exact same size can have a dramatically different parking need um I get that so just that's a starting point from there I think it has two basic principles in the city center area one is that a developer such as ken has at least a good sense as the as a staff person does about how much parking they're going to need for their building um so that's that's one and then two especially in an urban area as more options present themselves there'll be opportunities on market street for on street parking there are transit routes there there are um a bicycle paths going in there's walking there's all sorts of other ways that people will be able to get to and from where they're going and so a place like downtown burlington or downtown um uh mob hillier starts to see a dramatically reduced parking need either from use to use or just in general and so our um our needs drop as well um and again there isn't a maximum in the city center form base codes area so if ken decides for his next building that he needs three four five spaces per thousand he has the authority to do that we're just not telling him he must do it you must dedicate valuable land to parking whether you like it or not we're not saying that so that's the that's the overall approach of it sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't i've got a building it's not in a downtown location it's up on water tower hill where the albany school of pharmacies across the way and there's a lot of kids that go to the albany school of pharmacy and when it's when they're in session and full there's no place to park except they come right across the street and park in my parking lot which means the next step is for me to to close off my parking lot and and start either charging or or whatever i mean parking is still a significant issue i i was i was at the same session you were at the other day that the sb bba came i think you were there right yeah i didn't talk about it automated cars in this president thank you very much but there were a lot of dreamers there um and and that's great it's nice to dream it's nice to dream about automated cars it's nice to dream about about the lack no need for parking but we are in vermont we can't ride our bikes in january very effectively and those who do don't ride them that much anyway it's it's interesting how few parking how few bikes to see out there maybe they will in city center but city center is going to need a lot of parking and i'll tell you what when the tiff came up and and was originally talked about for city center there was one thing they were definitely going to do they were going to build parking garages so that it would work and that seems to have disappeared it's one it's one of the few reasons i voted for it was was that the infrastructure the streets and the and the parking we're going to get taken care of by the tiff and somehow magically that parking has disappeared there are um i mean i i don't want to get into the data about the tiff one of the solutions not the entire solution but one of the solutions is that market street will have a lot of on-street parking um eventually in a downtown area hopefully parking becomes something that is an economic opportunity for a property owner whether we get there or not i don't know but burlington in the last 10 years i've noticed a number of prime um private parking areas have decided to um make it make it fee parking there's the revenue generator so that if ken decided to build extra spaces and he doesn't need them five years from now maybe he can lease them out um i'm not saying it can't stop growth though too i mean wanouski's a perfect example of it right now wanouski built a nice big parking garage they gave the spaces or the options for the spaces to specific users there's no spaces left and any building that wants to wants to do something even if if they had a small parking lot like i mean we have we have buildings in wanouski that cannot fill they could they could fill very quickly if they had parking but because wanouski controlled the parking and gave it out inappropriately it's now that's fair and i just to reiterate um we're not saying that parking isn't useful what we're saying is the what the form-based code is saying is we're not requiring parking that the private sector or public sector deems unnecessary we don't want to dedicate unnecessary amounts of parking to i get valuable i get that my question really is a tiff question it's not for you so yeah all the comments questions mark you okay yep thank you very much appreciate you thank you for your time tonight i appreciate it um i did not see minutes um in my packet maybe i missed it we will have three sets of minutes next time rey February of February 7th is fading fast so i don't know about those those are on sue but the most recent ones are on me and i apologize and rey is going to dock my pay if i don't know i see draft minutes for october 17th they were on there no no they didn't come out though you got didn't you get these it looks like they were on the website not in the packet though those are the yes so those are the draft minutes um that we put on the website by friday to comply with the open meeting law but that's not what you mean right these are the ones to vote on or no okay well that was uh a lovely meeting and we are adjourned at 8 27 thank you very much enjoy your evening thanks mark i want you all to notice that the eagles destroyed the broncos 53 to 21 it wasn't that