 Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever you're listening. This is Davisville on KDRT LP 95.7 FM in Davis, California We live at KDRT.org online. I'm Bill Buchanan, and I thank you for tuning in Well today's guests first appeared on Davisville a year ago to talk about homelessness in Davis And among other things we heard at the time that although many homeless people in town were finding homes Greater number of people were becoming homeless. I thought it was a really useful and interesting Half-hour and so I am glad to welcome back today Ryan Collins and Paul Dorschhoff for a follow-up talk Ryan is the homeless outreach services coordinator for the city of Davis and works directly with the homeless Paul is deputy police chief for Davis and in his more than 30 years on the Davis force has seen a lot of Change in how the city responds to the problem. I should add a note at the top of the show We're recording this by zoom. They're both on zoom so you're gonna get some of the usual zoomisms We might talk over each other here and there But I think that just of the conversation will come through and also Paul has told me He might have to leave a little before the interview is done to get on to Another meeting he has to get to today. But anyway with all that said Ryan and Paul Thank you very much for appearing on the show today. Of course. Thank you, Bill so When we talked in July 2019 the number of homeless people in Davis was rising. That's the net number What's the trend this year? I think I can speak to that So the trend that we have seen this year is for that number to at least be Steady or growing and we definitely haven't had a net reduction in people living in homelessness in the city and that's the trend that we are continuing to see kind of regionally statewide and Nationally, we don't have an updated Unsheltered point-in-time account census at this time, but that is going to be done at the end of January So we should have some fresh data for you then but just looking at the broader drivers of homelessness We're in sort of the midst of an economic downturn Housing prices still remain high We are seeing just that the sort of rental and housing markets being shaken up by by COVID And we are seeing a lot of people even in places where there are addiction Prevention sort of or protections enacted by local government that for anybody who has an informal kind of living situation where they might be on someone's couch and they're just suddenly saying or You know, they're staying with family or whatever a lot of those folks are now onto the streets because either they couldn't pay When they lost their employment opportunities or their unemployment extra funds ran out Or they had something under the table to begin with or sometimes they're forced out because they're staying with like an elderly family member Where that person is now at risk from COVID and they can't just be cohabiting the same one bedroom So it's shifting around the margins a lot with the overall trend towards growth Bill and just one thing too. I think there's I don't know how When it'll be realized but again, there's this fear that when these Eviction moratoriums wear out and unless there's a solution for the problem that You know, you're gonna have another rash of evictions due to the fact that you know Simply a lot of people can't pay the rent now and won't be able to pay multiple months of rent It's been compiled Yeah, in fact for those who don't know the first speaker you heard was Ryan and then it was Paul speaking most recently Ryan Collins the homeless coordinator and Paul Dorsch off deputy police chief So there's a lot in those answers. So the growth is It's up, but maybe not like it was. Do I understand that correctly? We are seeing growth. I mean, we're seeing new faces show up We're seeing providers sort of reaching out for assistance on more difficult cases where they haven't necessarily encountered the person before But someone who was you know vulnerable is now experiencing homelessness We don't have Census data we take something called a point-in-time or pit count That's mandated to be done every two years. I'll be done in January But in terms of like calls for service related to homelessness or referrals from provider Or what I'm hearing from the local continuum of care. We are having increased demand for services Probably a lot of it is pandemic related. Yeah Well, and I guess that was the the larger part of your answer really and there was a lot there Talking about a lot of the different causes for homelessness, which the economy has certainly won I know we've talked in the past that mental health can be an issue drugs or such can be an issue and then on top of it now we have the pandemic and That was one of the main things I wanted to to ask about today is how has the pandemic affected what you're doing? And that's a broad question. I realized but I'd be interested in however you want to answer that maybe Ryan Start with you and then Paul would be interested in what you see as a police officer. I think that now Every service provider that works with people living in homelessness is now in effect kind of a healthcare provider in some regard because they're all having to do some work with Screening to make sure that if they're serving someone in their day shelter or their overnight shelter or their outreach program or whatever They're having to take additional precautions to turn some people away and to try to sort of route them to appropriate levels of care Like let's say someone shows up at your door you do an infrared thermometer scan They're showing a fever you ask some questions Do you realize this person needs to be in a hospital and then you know figure out how to do that? That's kind of a whole set of protocols that they haven't had to deal with before and then when that the system sort of Has the alert that there is a more medically vulnerable person now living in homelessness Due to concerns with the pandemic especially for people that have pre-existing health conditions or older adults We're trying to make sure that those people have some additional options for getting shelter that they didn't before So all the local jurisdictions Davis included are working with county health and human services on a program called project room key That's trying to get older adults and medically vulnerable people temporarily sheltered in Hotels and motels locally they master lease blocks of rooms at a number of sites and it's Unlike general emergency shelter, which is kind of first come first served You know someone will show up and say hey, please give me a safe place to stay tonight This is definitely something that's operating on more of a triage model of we would like to get everyone inside But because we do not have unlimited hotel rooms or unlimited funding We're having to make Decisions more akin to what like a hospital might do and saying who gets served first based on greatest need Project room key. In fact, this is maybe a place to mention it I was looking at the county's health and human services agency Who was able to serve about 390 homeless individuals? And how is an average of 202 individuals per night? I think is part of that I was reading that in the woodland newspaper which sounded useful Paul, how how's it look to you? Yeah speaking of subject room key. I mean our project room key. I'm sorry we You know, we have had some more managing demands demands In regard to that because obviously you're placing a lot of people in a closed area Kind of a close proximity area Some of those folks are going to have the dysfunctions as far as substance abuse and things like that. So so that did It's manageable and I think it's been a success so far, but But it does take a little bit of resource to do that from a law enforcement perspective Well, I was just saying project project home key when I As I've read about the pandemic and how it's affected things It struck me that home key and I understand there's a follow-up program. I'm sorry room key at first home key I guess is the follow-up program right to and I forget permanent housing for the people that sounded like something new something that Honestly, maybe wouldn't have happened if not for the pandemic Is that true is is this a case where the pandemic sort of spurred a kind of action that maybe wouldn't have been possible before? Could have we'll have to wait and see Could it have designed a force test to design a better model for this type of a care that's possible Like I said, we'll have to see the longevity of that after the you know Things kind of go back to normal assuming they ever do But but that's a possibility and a lot of times, you know, these types of situations do Force a design that's more efficient to deal with a problem Ryan, I imagine, you know, you work directly with the homeless, right? You've and you've done this for about three years for the city That's great. So you talk with homeless people. I imagine every day You were talking about triage a minute ago trying to find folks who who really do need shelter A lot of this must rely on The contacts and the conversations and the connections that you make with with homeless and davis It does whether myself or um sandy on my team are Reached out to directly by a person on the street or Whether we get a referral like from a patrol officer that sees someone in need Or um, whether we are talking with a local homeless services provider who reaches out to us We we are using those conversations at starting points to do needs assessment that Are influenced by that pandemic So we're looking at medical risk factors and taking more referrals from people for example exiting the hospital system It is uh intertwined with all of the sort of pandemic in terms of figuring out What someone needs in this moment part of our kind of decision decision tree is definitely How is the the pandemic going to affect this person individually? And do we have some additional resources to maybe help me? That wouldn't otherwise be available outside of kind of the present crisis Are you hearing when you talk to homeless individuals? Are you hearing any different? Stories from them this year say compared to other years I'm sure every individual has a somewhat different story at least But i'm curious what they're telling you about directly how the pandemic has affected them Uh, I I think that well, I'll go through a few anecdotes So there was a person that we're serving in project room key that used to make an income and handling But then when uh shelter and place orders came down You know that person is no longer able to rely on that as a form of income They do have some medical conditions But just navigating the process of getting on social security disability can be a challenge Especially for someone with diminished capacity But the pandemic pretty much Left them without that income that they had come to rely on They had to reach out to the system for some support and you know Now that person is working with a medical provider to kind of get Documentation together that they need in order to make the case so that they can have An income through social security and then just The other day on friday, I think I was off duty But I was in town and I saw an older looking person kind of on on the sidewalk near Mason Cowell and he didn't look like he was doing too great So I logged on for a minute and I went up and I approached him And you know, I just wanted to get a little information gave him some water and some outreach supplies You know said hey, can we talk about your health? You know, we're concerned about the pandemic We might have some additional service offerings available to you that wouldn't be there already and In the course of the conversation I mean it became clear to me that this person had like a psychiatric condition that wasn't being treated And he said I think that the the virus is made up. He said I think that they're You know, someone gets hit by a car or a bus or whatever They just lump it in they call it due to the virus and that you know, it's Something that's being used to get funding and I mean I had to Kind of nod along, you know politely challenge not burn rapport use it as something where I said, okay I'm gonna try to check on you All right, and just move again But um for some people that are maybe the most vulnerable like that person They know that there's something different going on with the virus, but they're they're not really Changes that the pandemic has kind of made to society or how that's gonna shake out for them personally So we were trying to help everybody we can especially the people that are more vulnerable And some people are sort of more aware or cognizant of how life has changed And how that affects them personally than others Paul one thing you said last year that Struck me as as significant particularly was when you said that one of the ways that police Enforcement of let's call it the dysfunctional aspects of homelessness has changed over the years was that the A lot of it now is trying to steer people towards services. You come across someone who's Doing something that has required a police response and now Maybe compared to years earlier You're trying more to get them to well I suppose to people like ryan and to the services that he connects Do I recall that correctly and and if that's the case I imagine that's maybe more true this year? Yeah, I think it's becoming True and true and it's interesting discussion because you know when you look at some of the Concepts behind the defund the police movement is to separate the police from and and invest more in social work, which There is some Value to that. However, I think what I'm hoping for and what works really smooth. I think on a Workable level is this integrated system Where essentially police officers a lot of time receive the call because of a behavior in in the community that's concerning and Recognizing that the root of the problem is the homeless issues and maybe mental health or something else They have the seamless capability to integrate with social workers and people like ryan and and and kind of hand the problem off for a longer term solution And I I truly think that's the future because I mean there's no way to arrest your way out of these problems and really these are these are more Social ills than they are problems of criminality We should mention ryan, uh, you're actually part of the police department, correct? Correct And and uh, you referred to sandy. I don't And I is sandy the person because a year ago The city was going to hire a second position to sort of do what you do to sort of increase the effectiveness of The capacity Yeah, so I'm um, I'm an unsworn supervisor I I did not go to the police academy, but I am part of the police command structure I report up to our deputy director of police services, um, dian machado and she handles kind of All the side of the house that is um, not sworn police officers That's on Paul's side But in mind we have things like you know dispatch and crime analysis and um homeless outreach services And then um sandy is just below me. We hired her A little I think about seven eight months ago. So if they didn't like that She's been doing great work And it's been able to help us kind of increase our effectiveness And I think the timing of that has been fortuitous given that now we're seeing increased need related to pandemic And and we're also working hard right now I know to try to drop some services for mental health that would not necessarily be our staff but more contractual staff So again, I it seems like um, we're really committed to building this integrative model, which I I really think is the way to go because you need to care continuum for a lot of these issues We are talking, uh, the most recently the voice you heard was paul dorschoff. He is deputy police chief for davis We're also talking with ryan collins Who is the outreach services coordinator for the city of davis? I'm bill Buchanan and this is davis phil on kdrt Another change from a year ago is the city has opened the the day center the the respite center in february I believe how's that working from from each of your perspective ryan and then also paul Sure, I think my perspective is that the the respite center has been a great success. It is On city property near the corner of fifth and l streets And we work with communicator health centers. Um, who's the agency that staffs it They're a local medical provider that serve a lot of people who are of low income and you know Many of the people that are living in homelessness fall under They're existing or potential clientele and that center is staffed by members of their navigation team Which is part of their kind of behavioral health services side of the house And the program manager on site is a mental health clinician So because they're a health co-organization I think that they have been very adaptive to Providing respite services day services in the pandemic whether it's like Making sure that people there are property social distancing or have personal protective equipment or Again are getting routed into the right level of care I talk with them almost daily and get a lot of referrals to things like project room key Where they're doing some frontline work to assess If someone is in that right level of care Beyond that it just gives people a kind of a safe place to be and to um work on whatever You know kinds of issues or problems they have that are preventing them from Hanging housing and to do that with help from professionals who are kind of aware of The need of creating like a physically and emotionally safe space with you know Some resources like internet food water showers laundry That enable that process Is it working? I mean are is it helping some people get out of homelessness? Yes I don't know if you have numbers yet. I I know you said earlier, you know the next census is is january for that, but I know it's a pilot project. And so I imagine there'll be some interest in you know Knowing how many people come out of the program there and feel that that was an essential part of the recovery Paul any any thoughts on on the respite center? Crime-wise, I don't have any numbers. I Will probably end up running a statistical analysis on it at some point I haven't heard of anything outrageous though that any major issues that it's caused The other thing to keep in mind crime-wise with with such projects too is Homeless folks are often the victims of crime. So they're victims of robberies thefts sexual assaults all those other things And when you open up projects like that, you also start to build trust within the homeless community So those crimes actually start to get reported. Sometimes you have to kind of break the stats down and see What is possibly causing crime in the area? Is it or is it that type of center? Or is it actually that there are crimes that are being reported that otherwise Would not have because the service is provided. You're bringing things to the surface. I understand your yeah There there was a letter to the Davis enterprise in april that I was reading as I researched this It's a man who said he lived 150 feet from the entrance And said that as of that time he'd collected 14 needles used for drugs Tossed into my backyard twice as many along L street. There's there's a church right there In addition, I found six or seven poops mirrored blankets and clothing either tossed into my backyard or my front yard During the first weeks after the shelter opened Obviously, nobody wants that Right. What's the response? for him You know, we would As a police department, we would try to manage it the best we can. I mean, it's You know, there was a need for the respite center and had to go somewhere And after a lot of community dialogue, that's that was the most likely place I realized that those issues are going to take place and as a police department We'll just we'll just have to manage it the best we can we we won't be able to eliminate it completely. So You know, that that's essentially We try a higher visibility enforcement Probably education within the respite center to make the folks that use it understand better about keeping the area clean Well, and in in fact listening to you now, I was wondering and ryan your answer a minute ago if that's part of building trust with the folks who use the center to say look You can't you can't let this happen. You can't let the neighbors have needles in their yard Yeah, I can speak to that a little bit Two things the the respite center does have I believe a person called a safety ambassador on site That acts as something like security guard for the inside of the center as well Unless someone who does rounds kind of in the surroundings of the center and she's a person that I I believe is trained with a security guards like you know certificate and all of that But there's also a person with lived experience and homelessness So it is has a good understanding of what some of the issues like people might have in similar kinds of circumstances And I know that she does a pretty good job I think of helping to maintain order and encourage You know kind of more pro-social behavior or sort of you know self policing rather than generating a call to the police I do remember that individual case that that person was writing that the letter to the enterprise about I remember they wrote letters to just about everybody about that You know because obviously it's very disturbing and they they wanted a resolution and it's funny That set of problems centered almost entirely around one individual where we had in addition to the You know impacts on on that person's property and neighborhood that he was describing for example overnight in the port of potty or You know Grabbed a respite center staff person appropriately and this person was very ill Had had a lot of comorbid kind of health conditions going on couldn't meet the activities of daily living Even when there were showers and laundry and you know restrooms and things like that there You're still ending up with poop smeared blankets So that person did have a higher level of need and I mean it's really honestly unfortunate that Many of their problems like negatively impacted the quality of life in the community But it acted as sort of a red flag that shot up to the system where then we were able to ultimately shepherd that person Into some psychiatric care I think that we had a 51 50 hold and I'd be curious if you reached out to that Same person that issued the complainant the letter to the editor say how's it look for you now? Have you had problems with that same person? Are you encountering it because The sad thing is is that because so much of it goes unreported or unknown It's really often until you get something Really bad that occurs that sort of draws attention to the need that then you can bring the appropriate resource in for Kind of addressing the problem. Yeah, all I have done is read the one letter to the editor to it But I can imagine this person having been visible will probably be visible again if if the problem wasn't addressed and Hey, bill bill. I got to run to this other meeting. I have so I apologize, but Hopefully, well, thank you paul for appearing on the show today. You you made it for most of it All right. Thank you. Bye. Bye That was paul dorschoff signing off the deputy police chief for davis. We still have ryan collins On for a little bit longer ryan are the things You've done this job for a few years now on davis Are there is there something you would like people to know about homelessness and davis that you think that they don't know It's an interesting question Because I I think that we've tried to do a lot of work in educating the the public About homelessness because people really want answers. They want to know why is this Individual sort of that I see living in the state that they're in and they want to know What are you doing sort of to address the problem or what causes it and we definitely try to put that information out I guess To the people of davis if there's something New that I wanted them to know it would be that these are unprecedented times that we are living through and the need is rising from what it has been previously and We're definitely going to need more permanent housing for people who are going through homelessness to exit homelessness Into if we're ever to kind of solve that problem We're also going to need more emergency shelter during kind of the present surge of need and we're not currently equipped to do that So if you want to really take a bite out of homelessness If you want to see The quality of life improve for the people that are living with it And you want your own quality of life and kind of comfort to be Improved by not having to deal with like the externalized impacts from that That it's important to support efforts that would increase Access to things like shelter and affordable housing And often the arena that this ends up in is political when you're making decisions for things like Zoning or siting projects or things like that I remember the sort of battle at council or the the respite center just for providing day services But um at the end of the day While there are some kind of egregiously bad cases that stand out like the the person who prompted the letter to the editor at the enterprise homelessness Really just represents people that aren't able to afford a place to live They come from all walks of life They have all sorts of stories and many of them would make good neighbors So consider that when you're talking about well, what can we do to make this better? The answer is going to be to try to find places for people to live kind of amongst you rather than shoving the problem aside That there is no no place to sort of move people to they're coming from our communities They're coming in increasing numbers and we have to find a way to kind of quickly reintegrate Otherwise we're going to see everything go from bad to worse Yeah, and and I I think to add to that places where they can live that have the services they need because The mental health problems and the drug and or addiction problems by no means for all But it is a real problem a real cause for homelessness Absolutely that that model of housing is called permanent supportive housing So permanent housing with supports it can look like a place where people live that has An on-site social worker, for example Or it can be kind of a distributed model of scattered sites where they have someone who visits and checks in on them You know with some frequency to make sure that their needs are being met and that they're not backsliding with an addiction or Experiencing a mental health crisis or something else that can cause them to lose their housing Well, ryan, we'll have to to leave it there. Thank you for your time today. You're welcome Thank you for having me ryan collins We've been talking with he is the homeless outreach services coordinator for the city of davis I am bill Buchanan on davisville. We also talk with paul dorschoff and thank you for listening