 Hi, everybody. Thank you for executive joining us for executive directors chat with TechSoup. We call this ED chat. I hope you're ready to take some notes, because today is going to be a good one that either notes with your pen and paper or with your notepad or whatever with your phone. Today is one of the most requested topics in the chat room that we've seen board of directors. We're talking about board of directors development, recruitment and retention. So we got one of our EDs who are going to be speech today. I am Aretha Simons. I'm the webinar producer here at TechSoup. I just wanted to let you know on behalf of TechSoup and over 100 partners that we have here that help provide nonprofit hardware and software and a discount for 501C3 organizations. We want to welcome you. If you're not a member of TechSoup, just type a one in the chat room and let me know. Let me know who's not a member of TechSoup. Because I had a question through Facebook. They said, do you have to be a member to attend the webinars? The answer is no. The webinars are free. They're open to the public. But in order to get a discount on the products, you have to have your 501C3. So there's one thing I wanted to talk about before we get into this. We made some changes on our website. So I know a lot of you registered for ED chat and you've actually become members. Right now it says 850, but there was like 900 over 900 the other day when I looked. So we are going to move this chapter, if you will, to a different page made some changes on our page. So, which means that you're going to get an email notice that the webinar chapter for this is closed. What we're doing is moving everything to our online webinar. So everything will be on one link. So if you go to TechSoup and you look at the top of the page and you see the word the community tab right underneath there, you'll see online events. So that's where all of our online events will be. Again, all the webinars are free. Make sure you go and sign up. And in order to get notifications, it'd be great if you would just sign up for notifications for all of the webinars. So that is that. And just a quick note on the chat room. Feel free to engage yourself, please. Everybody stay on mute. It just helps with the quality of recording. Of course, you know, it gives respect to your other EDs who may be conversating. Feel free to chat with each other in the chat room. If you have a question, use the reaction button right over there in the corner. Just click on it and raise your hand. And when you do come on, state your name, the name of your organization and kind of leave your comments or questions to like a minute or two if you can. Otherwise, again, engage with each other in the chat room. So I want to know about any of your aha moments. Make sure you tweeted us, send us Facebook. Let me know on by email, excuse me, if you would like to become a featured ED. We have a featured ED today, but if you have one of the topics that we talk about quite often in the chat room, let me know by sending me an email at Aretha Simon, excuse me, it's not Aretha Simons. That's my name is a Simons at TechSoup.org. A Simons at TechSoup.org. Again, please invite other EDs to this because as one of the young man said today, he's been here since day one and it's a welcome information. It's a great way to make connections. I've gotten emails from people who made some wonderful connections. So make sure you do that and do do me a favor right now type in the chat room, one of the topics that you would like to hear about. Let us know some of your topic ideas. Again, we've been hearing a lot about board of directors retention. So what I'm going to do is introduce you to our speaker so I can get out of the way. My speaker here today, you might want to take a screenshot of this with your phone because you will want to get to know Deborah. Deborah Jurgen is the executive director of SAIC Yakima Valley, excuse me Yakima Valley. I know I'm going to get it wrong. She's been in the nonprofit sector for over 10 years as the nonprofit executive director, but she's been a board member of course like many of you, board member for the YMCA and wellness house executive director for the Yakima Schools Foundation. She's a certified life coach and at all of press coaching. I'm going to put a link to this. And guess what? She is an author to over 10 books. Yes, over 10 books. So I'm excited. Deborah, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us today. And I'll go ahead and turn it over to you. Thank you so much, Aretha. I have to say I am personally grateful to TechSoup for what you do for nonprofits. I am at my second nonprofit that has benefited from TechSoup from technology hardware and software. So you really do provide great service to nonprofits and help us to expand our mission. And so, you know, one of the one of the first questions is how are you as an executive director moving your board forward. And the board of directors is an organization's most important asset, because collectively, they provide the framework that everything else will rise or fall around. And so I want to give you tools today and in a few minutes we're going to talk about the tools that you can give your board of directors to help them to bring their best to your nonprofit organization. And we're going to start today with developing your board. Deborah, give me one moment. I'm sorry, they said they can't not see my screen. So one second. I apologize for that. And thank you for coming and logging on. I'm so happy to see your face also. Yeah, thank you for letting me know because I thought you could see my whole screen. Are you able to see my whole screen everybody. Great. And everything's big and clear. Great. Awesome. Thank you so much, Deborah. So we'll move forward to the screen that says developing your board. And so if you've ever worked in for profit business world, you know that you've probably had employers that have invested in giving you training or extra tools and I guess what I want to tell you today is as the executive director for your nonprofit, it's really no different. And so with nonprofit work when you do board retreats or you do regular trainings, you are keeping your board updated and empowered with their work that they do with your organization. And so when it comes to tools I'm going to go through quite a bit of information today so I'll go kind of fast but I'll answer any questions you have afterward or or in the middle if you if you like. So the most important tool that you can provide to your board is accurate information about the work that you are accomplishing. Because when they talk to somebody in the community. It's important that they feel confident sharing how you are helping who you are helping and the actual impact of your organization. So think about commitments and, and what you are doing to feature your board. Think of your board as your celebrity endorsers. Think of them as the people to partner your partner and share your holiday campaign campaigns, invite them to your events. And so we're looking to participate in ways that include limited time, but big impact. So one of the things that one of the fundraisers that we have done at safe Yakima Valley as a Yakima's top dog. And so we invited board members we have several board members because we're a community organization we have the sheriff he's our president and the prosecutor and the mayor and so we invited them to do hot dogs and then people could vote by buying how many of the effort really affordable so families could come in, but it made them feel really special. And so instead of just having the, the challenges of their job they got to for, you know, an afternoon go out and actually just greet the public and answer their questions. What it also did is it made them more excited about safe Yakima, and more excited about, you know, really representing us not just not just all the other business that they have on their desk but you know talking about hey I'm here with safe Yakima we're doing really exciting things and your board members are part of your board because they love your mission they love what you're doing and so they have that passion, and they want to talk about it, and so feature your board in your outreach. The other thing that's really important with developing your board the board that you have is accountability because metrics do tell the real story. And this goes beyond financials. If you have the board, the information they need to get excited about your organization success, their passion is going to spill over. They are going to be talking about it. They are going to be sharing your numbers sharing how many people you've helped. And that is really what tells if you're successful I mean, it's, it's good to have all the, all the branding, and that's really important to. But really the metrics are how many animals did you help how many people did you help how many, how did you help the environment how how many, you know, whatever, whatever it is that your focus is on for your organization, whatever your cause. What difference did you make by the numbers, give those numbers to your board, and that is going to help them so that when they're out in the community, they feel empowered to share your story. So we'll slip to the next slide, because sometimes you need to recruit for success. And at the end of the day. What you are doing when you're recruiting is you are finding the candidates with the best skills experience and personality to fit the job. And the job is, is simple, but it's also complicated it's this beautiful combination of culture character and competency, and you need all three of those things when you are looking a board with a deep connection to your mission is like a lighthouse in the storm. They are going to be able to help tell your story throughout your whole community and that community might be a local community it might be a statewide community it might be a national community, or it might be an industry. And so, whatever your community is, make sure that your board feels a connection to the mission. Now, one of the most important things is setting expectations up front. That includes skills, time, money, social collateral. And so that why is this really important. Well, this is very important because, and I've been in this position as an executive director where you know you have to fill a certain number of spots and maybe some of the people in the community are on multiple boards or have multiple commitments. And you're just trying to, you're trying to, to maybe go after someone or something that isn't necessarily in your very best interest or that you're willing to say oh yeah you just have to come to a few meetings because they say well what's entailed in that you ask them okay well would you like to join our board of directors or be nominated. Well, what's in what, why do I need to do what's my commitment that's a fair question right, but sometimes we downplay that we're like, oh you know what there's meetings and then we do like two fundraisers a year and. So we don't what I'm saying to you is, it's really important to, to let them know upfront what is required because changing the rules midway doesn't sit well with people now to be fair coven has changed the rules for everyone in the past year and this is actually something that your organization can use to its benefit like if people aren't attending meetings if they are if you notice them pulling back or they're just busy or or they have reasons. This is a great time to say you know what I, this is totally understandable, but is there something that we can do to help get you more engaged. That brings us to engagement. We don't just need people to attend meetings, or you don't just need me people to attend meetings. We need them to show up and do the work. I mean whether that's helping out in the office whether that is using making connections and opening doors whether that is really evaluating the policies and procedures, annually to make connections in line with what the expectations are of the board of the organization. And so to do the work and to serve the mission. Everybody needs to show up. There are more special cases where perhaps elected officials aren't able to get involved in fundraising, but they can still help with behind the scenes activity. In fact, their public presence might actually be meaningful in a way to show public support. This brings us to relationship building. Especially in nonprofit is everything. It's key, because that's what we do. We're here to serve people and we're here to gather people to serve people or animals or plants, but rebate relationship building requires everyone to invest. It's an inside and an outside job. And as the executive director, your goal is to build relationships with your board and your community, but it's just as important that your board is also actively building relationships while connecting to the community, and your programs and the work that you do. So we'll move to thank you. Aretha Wow, you're ahead of me I love it. I love keys to retention so you, you've got a great board, you love your board. But you know that you sense especially with COVID that they've been pulled in all these other directions. And that's really natural I mean people have big things on their plate some people have had health, personal health issues and, and that, and that can be challenging, but there are keys there are keys that can help you retain the board members that you have that you have recruited that you have developed that you have equipped. And so the first one is to really create an inclusive environment where everybody's part of it where everybody is welcome, and where they have an opportunity to share, contribute and connect. The second one is compliance. The board is ultimately accountable for major successes or missteps. So make sure that you are protecting them by keeping them in compliance. This can be everything from insurance to a conflict of interest statement will get to that. But giving them the tools that they actually need to keep them in compliance is very important. The third thing that was very interesting to me as I was doing research for manifesting passion culture character and competency. So I did a design survey of executive directors, and we found that 93% of board members preferred to feel useful over feeling appreciated. I mean, obviously it's important that we do both. And, and we try to do both. But it's really interesting that they were there truly because they support the mission truly because they, they want to make a difference, and they want to see our meaningful outcomes. So your board wants to feel useful and necessary. They are busy, and most people do not need one more box on there to do list. So if you show them how their impact is creating meaningful ink outcomes. You are going to be able to retain them because they're going to want to continue to continue making a difference. And finally, a sense of community is a really great way to have keys to retention because the board is not one person. The healthiest boards are accountable to the organization, but also to their fellow board members. So what you can do as an executive director is set up opportunities for them to get to know each other to bond and to connect. Now, you also want to make sure that you check with your bylaws because if your bylaws say you know that four people or more getting together constitutes a formal board meeting then you will need to take notes. Unless it's just simply where you say this is completely not a board meeting but board members are invited to just come in and you know mingle and get to know each other. But why not take notes I mean that's some really positive things and some powerful information can often come out of those meetings, especially when people have let their guard down a little bit. So, my final slide is in pulling everything together. What is the function and responsibility of the board. The basic responsibility and function of the board is that boards are entrusted with advancing the mission for the organization and serving as representatives of the community. They are also responsible in fundraising to provide leadership financial support and connection to donors or prospective donors. And so they have a great deal of oversight that is really important, and, and that is the responsibility and it's really important when you're recruiting, and when you're developing your board to always remind them of the responsibilities, because it. It is really important that they do know that at the end of the day. This is fun. This is awesome we're making a difference, but there are fiduciary guidelines that must be followed and they as the board are responsible for those. The only way to help them with that is to ensure that the priorities of the board are always key and at the forefront of everybody's mind. And one way to do that is with the conflict of interest statement. Everybody should be signing that once a year. It just makes people think about Oh what are my relationships. Could there be a conflict of interest. Is there a gray area do I need to review this. For most people, it's just something of reading it being reminded of it and signing it each year but for some people. This can actually help prevent a future crisis policies and procedures. In the Valley, we have federal funding, and we have to follow very specific policies and procedures, or we lose our funding, but it's a really good idea, whether you have that guideline or whether you, you know, are more community based and more funded to still have policies and procedures and to review them annually and to use them to help everybody be reminded of what's important and what's in the best interest of the organization. Now, one of, I think the most important topics as we pull everything together is having diverse representation diversity is just, it's not a box we check diversity makes. It brings the whole level up it creates an environment where there are more opinions there are more ideas there's more sharing, there's more experiences, especially when you bring in cultural diversity. You can really impact your community in a greater way, because you represent everybody in a better way. When I was working at a hospital we had and about 10 years ago, the federal government for reimbursements for medical services, they were looking at patient satisfaction they call it h caps but within that, they were checking out, you know, like, you know, what is really going on what's the patient's experience, you know, are they, are they healing are they going back so what we did is we had a program called getting to great. And we brought somebody from every single department in, and we represented everyone and I will tell you as part of the key management team. We often reflected on how it was very educational for us because we what we thought that the frontline had not always the case. They told us what mattered to them. They shared their experiences. They shared the things that empowered them and that put them in the right frame of mind so that they could then give the best service and help to our patients. And what we ended up having happened within less than a year was that all of our scores went up, our employees scores went up, our patient scores went up. The environment was friendlier. Everybody felt like there was an enhanced sense of morale. And it was because we listened to everybody we brought everybody in and diverse representation is one of the best. And it's really one of the best gifts that you can give your organization and your community is to make sure that every voice is heard and every voice is equal and important. And that takes us to the final and as part of CADCA we learned not about us without us. And the whole concept of that is, we can't be making decisions for someone else if we're not listening to them. So what's important to them, if we haven't heard from them. And so bring everybody in, be inclusive, be open be transparent and make everybody feel welcome, because in doing that, you are going to have the board that is not just going to be effective in its mission with in the organization but it's going to be even more effective with this mission to the community that you serve. Well, you know what, I love how you ended that you just dropped did the mic drop on not about us without us. That is one of my favorite things that I have learned from you. You guys need to write that in the chat room. It's not about us without us let me just say it like that how about that. So I saw a lot of questions in the chat room I want you to get ready to raise your hand use a raise your hand option to unmute yourself in a moment I will call on you. So you can ask your questions but I saw a lot of heads nodding. When she was sharing I saw a lot of heads nodding so what is some of your takeaways. What is some of your takeaways or what is some of your thoughts as she was chatting and then go ahead. Okay, so yes, thank you so let me go to the chat room why you guys are thinking about what you want to share. Someone asked how do I handle a board member who's not sign the COI from even. Excuse me the COI form, even though they have been asked multiple times. That's an interesting question and they've been asked and they can't and they won't sign it well so I would go to your executive committee and make sure that they are on board. But the reality is that they probably this board member probably needs a personal visit, whether that's on zoom or whether that is in person with your board chair or maybe a couple members of your executive committee and you. And then you just some either you or the board chair needs to say it's really important this puts us at risk. If it's not signed, and it puts you at risk I mean it's not just that not you the executive director but telling that board member who isn't signing it and won't sign it say you know this puts you a risk but this is imperative that we have this signed for you to continue to be on our board so we're going to give you 30 days we would love to have you sign it. And certainly feel free to make notes on it you don't have to sign you can sign it and make your adjustments but just know that this is this is mandatory it's a requirement to be on our board of directors. Okay, and there's another question. As you guys are you have a question for Deborah raise your hand or comment, Sarah, who's looking at us from her iPhone thank you for typing this question. How do I keep a board member involved and keep them showing up when their board members are in different states. Well you know what that's that is a very interesting thing and I think that it's, it's even more so with COVID everybody is understanding your question, because all of our board members at some point during this process and in the last year have been at a distance. So, but I think about like an HOA for maybe a condo association or where you are going to have people who are either around the nation or around the world. And how do you, how do you bring them in. And the fact is, it just starts with relationship building I would just get them on the phone have a conversation with them. I just want to catch up with you. How are you doing. In fact, aretha is going to put in the chat box at the end, some tools for executive directors for board communication and one of them is a page on board communication. And it's really, it's just a set of like 12 questions you can determine which ones you want to ask or not ask. But really it comes down to relationship building. And so, I say just pick up the phone and say hey can we just have a conversation I want to find out what's going on with you I haven't talked to you I miss you. And most people will say sure I can meet you or I can, I can take a call on Tuesday at four o'clock, or whenever it works for them. Jorge, he has his hand raised with you on meet yourself please thank you. Hello everybody, Jorge de Moe here Deborah thank you very much. I appreciate it. We just had one of our board meetings actually last night and a lot of these questions came up. In terms of a COI is there anything else that you feel would be necessary for a board members to sign. I'm thinking around the idea of a non not confidentiality agreement, mainly because of state funding and since we do deal with young adults with developmental disabilities, some of the issues that are risen are very sensitive. So we want to make sure that we keep that within the board would that be okay to ask of the board. Really, but another question that I would bring to you, because we have a similar situation we have at risk mentees that we serve. Is it necessary for the board to have the, the information of the people that you serve like is it in for is it necessary for them to have their last name and they're identifying information or can you just refer to them as student one or as patient one. In our case, yes, only because our board is very active they're at events, we've had board members volunteer to pitch in as a job coach when we've been a little swamped. We're very lucky in that sense our board is very active. We want to keep them as involved as possible and many of them are occupational therapists, or they run their own practice so they are, they actually have some of the same clients we do so they know exactly who we're talking about. So we don't want to look. A slight slight conflict you think I do believe that can be a problem, but we find a way around it. I think that given that that is the group of your board of directors they would be absolutely on board with signing a confidentiality agreement in fact they probably, some of them I'm guessing have asked why they haven't signed one yet, is that correct. Yes, that would actually be correct. And in the chat I did notice that somebody asked how do you get more board members. One thing that we tried to do is we tried to ask our current board members to nominate a new one, and they go through a little bit of a nomination process just the idea that we started kicking around within ourselves. So the number one way is, you know, have your current board members reach out to people who are equally passionate who they know care about your mission that they, they know that they want to help, you know the same group that you are that you target to help. So I think it's really important to put a, you know, a message out to your community whether that's an industry community or whether that's a local community and say hey we're looking for board members. I was at a national night out. I was at a national night out two nights ago at because it's national night out as it was last week but one of the local communities moved it to this week so they weren't competing with so many. And I ran into a former police chief from one of the lower valley communities and he said you know I'm really concerned that no one on your board represents the lower valley because most of our people have been coming from the upper valley and from the city. And so it's really important and I said, Well, would you like to be nominated I mean we would love your resume and he I said do you still have a passion for the look you record you represent the lower valley do you have a passion do you, you know for geographically and he said I do and I said well, here's my card, you know, send me an email and then I also took his email because I wanted to follow up with him and send him a board nomination form or we change our boards at the beginning of every year and so this is the time where we start gathering resumes and you know, here's I mean when you look for candidates you want candidates who have the best skills experience and personality to fit the board, who are going to fit in well but who really care about reaching everybody and being inclusive and in diversity and so if you have somebody who's saying, yeah I'm interested in joining your board by all means, make sure that you connect with that person you get their information they get your information, and, and you send them a nomination form. Okay, Michelle then I saw you, your hands so thank you for being patient. Thank you. Two questions and very new at this. This is, I'm becoming the executive director now I'm stepping down as president becoming executive director. Two things. Can you tell me please on a small scale board, how many are we supposed to legally have. Well that is according to your own bylaws. So you get to pick that and so but your bylaws should state and if they don't then absolutely update them you know. I mean, at the very minimum you're going to you're going to probably want five or six people but, but that's really the very minimum I mean ideally you know you want around 15 to 20 people and there are some boards that have even more just remember that you have the number that you have on your board the higher you need for a quorum, the higher you need for a variety of things and then the more you have to work to make sure that everybody feels heard. Okay, and where would I find a COI form. Yeah, I believe that I included that in. In fact, I did I included that in the list of PDF that Aretha is going to provide to you. Perfect. Thank you very much. PDF will be email if I don't get a chance to drop it here in the chat room. Melissa, please unmute yourself. Thank you. Great question Michelle. One of the Jorge had asked something about other things that they sign and I have been an executive director for exactly one and a half years so two months before COVID. I'm actually a math professor. So I know nothing about nonprofit worlds. I did want to say that we've been exploring all this and trying to learn it and one of the things that we do is we went to our community foundation and said help us. And they gave us a conflict of interest statement. They gave us. They also have this thing that I think is brilliant it's called an intent to serve for him. They give it to every volunteer every board member every person involved, once a year and what it does is it allows someone, the ability to step out without the conflict of stepping out. And so, all of my people are now, we just gave it to them so you know I can say this and practice it sounds or in reality it sounds good but in practice I'm not sure yet, but they, we give it to every board member, every volunteer that it says is I would like to continue on this committee that I'm currently on. I would like to resign from that committee. I would like to continue in a position of board, because we have a committee structure so if you're on the board of directors you're that the chair of a committee. You can step down from that board role and jump to committee and someone else could be in the board role if you find that the being on the board just isn't really where you feel like you you fit we give them that out in love so that it's not. It's not such a hard conversation, and everybody gets the paper. So, we just found that that because there were a couple of board members that really weren't very involved and it, it gave that start to that conversation for us. That's excellent. I mean, I, you know, I haven't, I haven't heard of people doing that. Gosh, I mean, it's something that I, I'm definitely going to explore and I would love to talk to you about more offline, because I think that that's giving people a good out and an easy out is better than keeping someone who doesn't want to be there. Right. They feel like they're letting you down when they leave, but you're giving them an opportunity to not in some cases we found that people didn't want to leave. They just needed a new role that suited them better. They're not bored material so to speak, but they love being on the committees and still being involved. That was good feedback on Melissa. I see a couple of people more have their hands raised. I'm going to go to Anthony, then Eleni and then Marcia. Or, yeah, go ahead, Anthony. I'll unmute you go ahead. We can't hear you. No, we can't hear you still. Why are you getting that together going to go Eleni and then let us know when when your sound is ready. Okay. This is Eleni Casey and I'm so glad. Thank you so much. I love that idea of the intent to serve. I would like to know, we have a little bit of an opposite problem. We're a cultural organization and we do equity work. We work around indigenous people. And consistently we have a non native who is quite critical of indigenous people yet she's not doing any of her personal internalized dominance work. She's not doing any work around. Just because she you know she has a degree she thinks you know, she's the expert. I want to implement the intent to serve very much but what if that person is unwilling to move on even, and we're just now actually setting up term limits. So, because we're small but mighty. Great question. What's your comment on the intent to serve if they won't sign it and if we we're running out of time so we can keep the questions and comments to like a minute that would be great. So I want to specifically what is your question. I want to make sure that I answer it specifically. The intent to serve I think is a great idea to choose to implement what what how would you approach a person who is unwilling to step down. So someone who's not really doing the work, etc, and then they're very critical. So we need to get new board board blood in there. Is this person on your executive committee or your steering committee. No, she's a board member, going on five years and we need to, you know, we need to move on. I would say that with any major concern that is thwarting the efforts of the organization or the energy of the organization I would say definitely bring it to your executive or your steering committee, because it's not a decision that you can or want to make on your own, it's a decision that you really want to be representative of the board. Thank you, Anthony, how's your sound and you mute it now. Can you hear me now. Yes, yes. So quick question, Deborah, regarding the, the definition of personality we're talking about finding board members who meet the culture and personality and these have often been embedded kind of inadvertent, or add, you know, intentional code language to exclude good folks from a board because then what ends up happening is, you're looking just like in hiring for people you think work well on your team, and you tend to look to people that are just like you. And so it is a practice that yields a non diverse board as opposed to a more diverse one. And I'm just wondering if there are ways that we can intentionally get address what is personality what is culture when you throw that in as indicators of what is a good board match. So it's actually just quite the opposite, it is actually bringing people when we refer to personality we're referring to. Are they plugged into the organization, are they active, are they vocal about the mission and how they can serve that mission. Are they open to talking to other people, do they want to work with others. There are some people who have a personality where they don't want to work on a team they're like you bring everybody together and they're like oh no I'm going to go do my own thing. Well maybe that's not somebody who is part of the board maybe that's somebody who is a stakeholder or a donor in a different way or can do something different I believe in empowering people. But when I talk about culture character and competency culture is, it is really being inclusive. It is bringing everybody in it is listening to everybody's voice. It's having a belief that everybody is equal and everybody's voice matters, because it does and, and the truth is that every single time if you have one person do brainstorming or you have a group of people do brainstorming. You are going to get better results you're going to get better answers you're going to get better solutions from the group, because different people bring different perspectives and so character means that you do what's right. It's not what's in your own best interest but what's in the organization's best interest and competency means that people can read a financial and that they, that they actually do their homework they don't just show up without having read the minutes or they don't show up and say oh I you know I didn't get that or I didn't see that you really need somebody who, who is plugged in who wants to be there and who behaves in a way that says this is important this matters and I, and I want to be here. And so they bring that competency and if they don't know how to read a financial statement because at some point we all had to learn to do that, you know, feel free to ask. And I think that if there's other things that someone doesn't know, feel free to ask I mean we are all here because we care about the people or the animals or the environment, whoever we serve we all care we have this this shared mission and this vision of what we want our world to look like. So, culture character and competency is a grouping of how do we move that forward collectively, not as one person, but collectively, how do we move that forward. Right. And Ellen, go ahead with your question. I was wondering, whose responsibility is it. So sort of a chicken and egg question. Does the board come up with its own governance or is it the executive director driving it. And our situation we really, we have bylaws but we really don't have any structure to our board. So, even though we have a board chair who is the founder we just don't have any. We've been reduced down to basically three members. And even though we call ourselves a working board the board doesn't really do much in the way it works so I just wondered if you had any tips on on that is should the should the executive director be driving the board, or I mean, I've heard that most board should be driving the executive director even though there shouldn't be bossing them around per se. So, let me ask is your executive director paid or is your executive director one of your board members who's just taking on that role. Well, she should be paid, and she gets paid, but doesn't know when, when she's going to get paid or how much it's sort of just like an ad hoc thing. So, is this is now is your group. Officially a nonprofit are you a 501 for 20 years 20 years old. So, you know, in this case, normally the board makes these decisions, but in this case, perhaps your executive director could call a meeting and could ask the questions, and still let the board drive it, but your executive director could facilitate getting your board or your, your, your organization from where you are to where you want to be and that maybe just include starting with those questions, you know where do we want to be what is our goal. And do we want to add more people do we want to have more structure. I mean, I'm going to be honest, it sounds like it sounds like maybe if the founder is on the board, and it's 20 years old and there isn't structure, you're going to need some buy in from, you're going to need buy in from all three people do we want structure. And if so, what is that going to look like, and definitely your executive director can ask those questions but it's not your direct your executive directors role to go in and like write everything up because he or she could spend a lot of time doing that and it could be rejected and that would be very. That would be demoralizing for your executive director. I'm sorry, go ahead Ellen I'm sorry I thought Doug's hand is waiting to add to that. Yeah so follow up question would be, can you kick your board members up and how if so how would one do that. And, and how would you, I would you have to have a new board in place before you did that. Okay, so to to make a change like that you would need a majority of the board. And since you have three members. I mean that sounds like there'd be two members voting to offer the other member the opportunity to maybe fill out their intent to serve for him. But, you know why don't why don't you email me and I'll talk to you offline because I would love to help you with this more but I don't want to take it too much. Right in this format, but if you'll email me I would love to talk to you Ellen. Okay, thank you. Great. Doug, did you want to add to that you had. I was an executive director for a lot of years. I always found myself in the position of feeling like I was either pushing or pulling the board, and I had some pretty good boards. And so, I think the executive director is it and you're in a little bit of a unique situation because this person's maybe paid maybe not. But the executive director has to their job is to make sure the organization is being run correctly that's why the board hired them. And that relationship with executive executive director and the board is absolutely it has to be good that is the one identifier of a successful nonprofit. But if that relationship is there, then that executive director needs to help coach the board and move them along and create a governance committee and create the board expectations and board job descriptions. And be a critical person in decisions, looking at board efficiency and board participation. And, and so I, I really think that's an important part now again you're in a little bit of unique situation. This person is kind of half volunteer and half, half paid staff. The executive director is these board members work all day they've got other lives they've got kids they've got parents they've got all kinds of stuff going on and the executive director sits in that seat, because they're the ones that are living it every day. And so I think that's a critical, critical piece to helping the board move forward. Wow, thank you for adding that. Thank you. Thank you. I hope I'm saying your name right your question or comment. Hello. Yes. Yes, I said my name right. My name is Josie O'Herry and I am the founder and CEO of a youth organization here in Houston, Texas. And my question is, so what do you have some tips on how we can live enough our board meetings. So they're not so report heavy. They are focused really on building relationships between board members. But the purpose of building up morale and having them inspired by being on the board and the work that we're doing. Yeah, so that's actually much easier in person than it is via zoom because I mean, the reality is people have a lot of online meetings. One of the things that we do at our board is the last 10 minutes or so we sign cards. And so we will sign birthday cards to people to donors or to will sign cards if someone had a baby or somebody had a loss will sign a card. But if someone is is sick and we want them to get well we had a board member who was ill. And so everybody signed cards and you know what the passing around of the cards and especially it's not like one card like we'll pass around six cards. And so people are taking them across the room and then they're putting them to their right and putting them to their left and signing and it actually creates creates a fun environment of doing something that isn't necessarily heavy or traditional But it is board work because it's all about outreach and community and relationship building and letting people know and at the holidays, every single board member signs our cards to go out to the community. And it is a lot of work and what I learned is you have to start this in October, we have 18 board members. And, and so that's it's a lot to get those around and especially when we were driving them from place to place but definitely do something that's an activity have people talk about something that they maybe a fundraiser coming up when we were looking at the top dog, people were talking about their favorite toppings on hot dogs and I mean I think people who didn't even like hot dogs were excited about toppings and make sure you have grilled onions and make sure this because it brought something else in besides just board business or traditional board business when we think of administration, but it was still board business and it developed that relationship. The other thing is if you invite your board to, you know, have appetizers together or a barbecue and one of the board members backyards. Those are fun things that people look forward to getting together you know there's a reason we, we break bread or we have food together, when we get together oftentimes with friends or with colleagues or because either food or talking about food just sort of gets people excited about bringing an opinion in that they don't feel that they don't have to really think about how it's going to be delivered. Beautiful. Okay, so I have a few more people with their hands raised on my screen, Beth, Kimberly, and Kofi I hope I'm saying your name right back, go ahead. You're seeing it right. Okay. Okay, you called on me. Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Beth. Okay. I have a question maybe long answer. If you've had an organization in trouble trouble all across the board personnel financial and the board members are fleeing, because this is hard work to straighten things out. Any thoughts on how to keep them or get more people on to a problem organization. I've been through that actually, but I think I'll try to keep this answer short but yes, connect with me separately because I can help you through this. But I would say the first question is, do you want to be here. And if somebody doesn't want to be there, don't try to convince them, because if they don't want to be there. Let them have that gracious out so that they can still support the good times and say you know what. I want to be here. Are you committed to getting this back on the right track. What is the timeframe that we're going to give ourselves to reevaluate because if things are so bad that you're talking about shutting down or you're talking about people fleeing. It's very scary for somebody to say oh I'm going to continue on there and I want to be part of this and yes. So say you know what could, could I could would you just commit for six months. In six months we can reevaluate and if nothing has changed or not enough has changed to give people the confidence in six months then you know you're probably right those that tough decision needs to be made I mean organizations form and they have a life span and then sometimes they disband. And that's okay, but it's kind of like, you know when a relationship ends, whether it's, we have mentoring relationships and after a year, the mentor and the mentee are no longer matched they make a commitment for one year to have this. And we go through a process where we strategically help this unmatched so that it's not, it's not tearing apart, and so nobody feels like they're just now suddenly abandoned. And you don't want your people to feel that either. Deborah would you share your email in the chat room and then Kofi, I will have you unmute yourself and ask your question. Thank you. That's my time, not your time. Kofi the are you still there did you still have a question, you're still on mute. Okay Kimberly, go ahead. Please ask your question. All right. Sorry. Okay, so we are, we have a very small board members I think we have about five. And we have so much work to do and most of the board are qualified to work and be paid. And I'm wondering what percentage of the board members can actually be employees of the organization, if that is possible. I do. I will I will need to legally check into that and get back to you I think it goes back to your bylaws but I don't think any of the board members can be employees. I think that once somebody is getting paid they're either an employee or they're a board member, but I'm going to be honest with you and tell you I don't know the answer to that and so I would, I would want to check into that and get back to you on that. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Will you email me. Okay, I will. I have a couple of times in the chat room because it's going up. Kimberly, go ahead and unmute yourself please thank you. Hi, I'm on you can you hear me. Yeah. Okay cool because I don't see my, my picture on the board. I guess my question was early on there was several people asking about where we a good resource for finding board descriptions because that's where we're kind of at now is, I have a fairly new board. It's 20 years and it's the first really great working board I've had and we want to bring on some new members but we need to really get those job descriptions and expectations in place. And then the give and get question, I think was also in there. How do you, is that just in your expectation when you onboard a new member to ask for the giver get. When you say the giver get what specifically what are you asking. So say you want a board, a new board member to either give $1,000 or get $1,000. Oh, yeah. So yeah I think that if that's an expectation that needs to be given upfront, and even before they're invited on the board when they, when they fill out the application. Then you have to put that in there. When I was on the YWCA there was an expectation that we had to raise $1,500 and that could be a personal check or that could be if you work with an organization or that if you went out to three businesses and got $500 I mean it wasn't, they didn't give you a specific set of guidelines of how that 15 but but you had to be responsible for bringing $1,500 and was one of the expectations on that board. Right. So your first question though about job descriptions. So we have job descriptions and I can share ours with you from from safe Yakima Valley, but they're really very basic. They're expected to attend the meetings. They're expected to attend 10 out of 12 meetings unless they have an illness or they have a vacation or they have something that is, you know, a prearranged absence or an excused absence. And then they're expected to participate in the event in plan to serve on an action team, which is like sort of a committee that that we were talking about earlier, and then they're expected to participate in community activities as a board member representing so like we do a national, or we do a drug take back day to days a year, and we do it with the sheriff's office and we ask that our board members at least show up for one hour to the drug take back day. If it gets into executive level or steering level committee members, then the, then the requirements go up because like with the treasure the treasure has to approve any debit charges ahead of time. It, not for the exact amount but just for okay we're going to this place to buy this do we have permission to use the debit. And they also have to sign off on anything on the expenditures, the president and the vice president have to approve the time cards so if there are things that are in your policies and procedures, then you can definitely look at who is it who has that responsibility and put that into their job description. Great. Thank you all so very much this has been amazing. I know there's probably still questions there were tons of questions in the chat room before you go I want to remind you. Make sure you go to tech soup and sorry, and sign up for our, our new courses, the upcoming webinars that are on the tech soup website. The upcoming webinars public good app house apps for nonprofits working with refugees that's going to be amazing technology solutions for larger libraries, how to grow and engage donors members and volunteers I know we all need that and then understanding Pastors payroll and quick book, and there's so many more for September ED chat is already there for September so make sure you sign up. I'm going to tell you, make sure you taking care of yourself while you're taking care of others. You guys have a great day.