 Thank you. That's what's really neat. That's the conversation that is more needed. Alright, so here we are in the beautiful city of Manchester. We've got a sign here. It says there's no argument against being vegan. Prove me wrong. We're going to see if anyone can find a really good argument for them, not to be vegan. And yeah, hopefully we have some good discussions about it. Let's do it. We've got someone here laughing. Wait, wait, wait, wait. There's someone here laughing. Stop laughing straight away and got all serious when they're seeing the camera. Eating McDonald's, laughing at the vegan sign. Where are all the people coming to debate me now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come and debate Joey. Come and debate him right now. So obviously there are arguments to not be vegan like in certain hypotheticals like survival situation. You might not be able to choose what you eat, say if you're homeless or something like this, but I'm talking about when the person sits down, when the individual sits down, I want to know why they're not vegan. There's no argument against them being vegan. This is going to be a pee. You're going to have a pee in my backside with me. Oh really? I like them. I like difficult challenges. How are you mate? I'm not too bad. What's your name? George. George, I'm Joey. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Joey. Right, so I have no real argument against veganism. As in like, you can be vegan and live your life normally and have a fun time, but you're saying that there's a choice between either being vegan or not being vegan. Then there's a whole idea, if veganism is the better alternative, then should there be a conversation of changing it all into like veganism? So there shouldn't be any like, you know, if I went to a pizza place, actually all of it's fake pizza. Actually there'd be no reason to make meat because that's actually wasting more time. There are also carbon emissions as well with like pigs and all sorts. They're taking up more space as well, so they should reduce that down. So then my whole, so it kind of wraps itself in the nutshell, is there anything that we can do to change the actual argument of eating meat? Is there? Because I personally think like you skipped over something here, which is really important. It's that animals are being executed on mass, tortured and murdered for a needless thing like a burger. I mean, there's these massive, there's these big slaughterhouses all over. Like there's actually one here in Manchester. This is pigs. You know, this is me inside of a pig farm here. And these are called farrowing sheds where the mothers are kept in here while the piglets are feeding. So they're kept in here for weeks on end. And then they grow these, they mutilate these piglets of course, take their tails off, snip their teeth out, and then they chuck them in this thing here. Excuse me, I'm just seeing that. This is a gas chamber dude. It's just a gas chamber. They've got one out here at Manchester, tulip meats, and you can hear the pigs screaming from out the front of it. Yeah. So this is CO2 and it burns their eyes and insides and lungs and they struggle and try to escape. Horrible. They're actually screaming really loud, but I've got the sound off. So this is here for me, right? This is where the argument is here. I don't think there's anything that justifies this. That's why I say there's no argument against being vegan like you guys like right now here in the UK. You know, I think there are arguments where there's like some hypothetical survival situation where you have to do what you've got to do. But I think for the most part you guys here should be vegan. I don't see an argument against it. The problem then, I hate to say it, but it's convenience over necessity, isn't it? You have to make it more convenient to be vegan than it is to be more necessary to be like a carnival. Or like someone who's going to just eat meat or on the varianess or what, I don't know, really know the jargon body. I think it's like an omniball kind of meat eater. I agree that convenience is a massive factor. But let's just say for you, now that you're educated, do you know what goes on? That's called a ventral ejaculator. They force the bull to ejaculate so they can take the semen and inject it into the female. This is the dairy industry. Do you think this is... No, it's not. This is okay? No, it's not. It's not fun and it's not really necessary. What he does is he puts his fist in the female's anus to hold the cervix and then he will inject the bull semen in her. That's how dairy's made. Yeah, I know. Seeing it is like... Perverted? It's just... It's disgusting but... It's a calf. It's empty. It's a heart... Like I've got family who've been farmers. They've worked in cattle, they've worked in pig farms. And my dad, like, it was like mostly a chicken farm and it suddenly become pigs and then he stopped working. It's like, oh, why did you stop working? Just a smile of shit. Just a genuine smile of rubbish and like... So much feces comes out of these places, yeah. Where do they put all that shit? I don't... Spray it around, keep it in these big pits. It's more like... It's more familiar, isn't it? So they'll keep reusing it. So there's a question of cycle of life, isn't it? But then, like... The circle of life, you mean? Yeah, yeah, but I don't... I'm not trying to... Is this the circle of life? No, I'm not trying to. This is not... It's like the circle of murder. Yeah, this is what I mean. This is what I mean. It's condoning something where like the whole inheritance, like us choosing that we have more doniments over killing animals is inherently wrong. I see... The mic makes right argument. You know, like, because we're more powerful and mighty than anything we do to those who we deem weaker than us is therefore morally justified. Yeah, and that's... Yeah, it's not... We've done it to each other all throughout history. It's a horrible way of looking at life, isn't it? Do you have a... So do you have a... Could you... Like, for me, I feel like the only way that you're going to like nullify or like to fix a wrong, because this is... Because this is where you really need to... I'd feel like this is where you have to go into. The solution? Yeah, solutions. So firstly, it's inevitable that the fact of you showing all these videos might put... Like, it's put me... That's horrible, isn't it? That's right. The dairy cow being slaughtered when she can't produce milk anymore. I know, but I've still got chili con carne cooking. I'm still going to eat. You're still going to eat her body? No, I mean, it's not her. Their heads. Okay, the only... So when you go sit down to a burger, dude, when you sit down to a burger, you're eating the suffered body of someone who's tried to survive. They're trying to escape the knockbox here. You know, these are the beings that you're eating when you eat their body. A piece of someone. I know, I know. And it's horrendous. And it's needless. You don't need to. Like, I've been vegan for seven years. Okay, so how much does it cost you? Well, it depends as much as I want it to. Okay, so... The cheapest foods in the supermarket, rice, beans, vegetables, fruits. Soy milk about a pound a bottle. You noticed any nutrition or, like, defects or any, like, affects? A supplement with B12 just to be safe. Yeah. I think everyone should... Okay. Okay, so supplement with B12. Because this is... I think that's another conversation that has to be put into place, is the idea of how can I... Because there's a whole other point of saying that veganism isn't that, like... Nutri... Yeah, nutritional. What argument based on that? Like, have you seen any of the science to do with our plant-based diets? No, like, yes and no. Like, yes in the sense that there's an idea of keto diet, but that still involves meat. There is an idea of plant-based diets. This is my only issue, is that the fact of hearing it and knowing it and doing something about it are all three different facets to have to be... Would you be worried about your health if you ate plant-based diet? Yes, if I suddenly started getting dizzy. Because if there was some type of symptom from it, I mean... Yes and no. But are you worried that you can't get the nutrients that you get right now, what you're eating in a day, that you can't get that on a plant-based diet? Yeah, I don't know. What do you think? What do you think you'd be missing? Trent, do you think you'd be missing? I think it's more of a... I think it's more of a habitual thing, really. The idea of enjoying something that... Like, I had a burger, I know what it smells like, I know what it tastes like, and I know for a fact it's a burger. Like, there's no carbs known off it. Give me an impossible burger, and the more I eat that, with no myver, no masses. I've had corn chicken, I've had corn lasagna. It's just, for me, more of... I don't really know what to get. I feel like it's... It's more like there's just a lack of education here. I've not seen... It's not that I'm not against you or whatever. It's just more of... When you're not vegan, you're against the animals. What you would do affects them. It's not affecting me what you do. You're affecting these victims. This is why I'm here. Not here to force my lifestyle on you. Don't stop forcing your lifestyle on the animals. Because you're forcing them into these slaughterhouses and forcing them to die. Just when you say those words, it is very... You paid for this. This is me trying to save someone. I'm in a farm trying to rescue this chick here. This is a sanctuary for a... Do you want to be this guy, or do you want to be the guy who sends him to slaughter? I don't want to be neither, mate. I don't want to have any part in this. There has to be a conversation of trying to cut this out entirely. Can we and shall we? Isn't us being full vegan the same way of... Is people going to see this as like, Oh, they're stopping us from eating meat now? Are they seeing it as oppression? Are they seeing it as center? Who do you think is being oppressed here? Oh, the chickens, obviously. If I said to you, you can't eat this anymore, would you feel like the one who's being oppressed? Or would you say, oh, wait a second. The egg industry macerating male chicks, by the way. They're being killed because they don't produce eggs for humans. Me, it's not... I'm not seeing it as everybody else, because it's a business, isn't it? When we talk about... Let's say if you stop all this, right? Because you're going to start chicken farmers... Gradually. There has to be a conversation of what you're going to do with those farmers. What jobs are they also going to... I guess they do plant farming. What did the slave owners do? Oh, yeah. Well, most of them got paid off anyway. Making an analogy here. Slavery was legal. It was a big industry, rice and cotton. A tobacco, I think, even. So what happened when they had to... Yeah, basically, because they were treated as property... The slaves got paid back. No, no, no. The slave owners. Because they were considered as property, and because they destroyed most of their income of rice and everything else, they had to pay them back. It sounds awful. I hate that whole situation. But they abolished slavery, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, fantastic. But still, someone had to be paid for it. So it comes back to this. So perfect example. So with this, they'll have to pay them. So we can help the farmers out, you mean? Yeah, basically. I hope that would be the case. I think that we should help all human beings out, especially if their industry has gone down. This is spinning around the circles. I really don't think that what happens in that industry morally... I really don't think that them needing a job morally justifies this industry. No, it doesn't at all. But there's a situation of like, so is there a petition I can sign? Is there... No, no, no. Okay, this is where we are. We're at this right now. So, you know, this is... What I want to talk about is your personal contribution. Okay, what am I going to do about it? Well, I want to... The starters, what do you think the most powerful point of control you have right now is... I don't want you to sign a petition. I don't want you to give me any money. I want you to... What do you do? Wouldn't you go like this? Yeah, just eat... Instead of it being like meatballs, it's like... Vegan meatballs? Yes. The McCartney's vegan meatballs? Yes. Okay, then. It's a beyond burger? Yes. It's corn vegan ham? Yeah, yeah, I got you. I understood and got that. I just don't... Oh, yeah. I'll do it. Fuck it. Hey, you know what? I'll tell you something. Imagine if I was sitting here... Can you... Can you 100%... Okay, then. I'll do it this way. Because, you know, this might be a better way. How can you turn a meat into someone who's vegan, who's never done it before and has no idea what he's doing and is more scared of what to get and not know what to like? Help you. Yes, please. I've got a little bit of resource here. That would be fantastic. Okay. So, here we go. So, I've got these... I've got the pamphlets out, guys. We've got these... Yeah. Oh. Okay, so first, educate yourself, obviously. This is education. This is what happens in slaughterhouses and environment and health. This is where you can get stuff. Okay. So, you can get vegan options from these places. KFC sometimes has a vegan burger. And... Okay, so here, this is called Happy Cow app. Okay. This app will show you restaurants that have vegan options near you. Yes. Most of the coffee places, you can get vegan milks. Okay. Choose one you like. Milk myself, but you might like soy milk. You might like... Well, I've tried soy milk before. So, I've tried... So, when it comes to corn chicken, like, I don't know the difference. Honestly, I've had it in curry. It's fantastic. Like, there's no qualms with me at all. It's just... Yeah, I just... Like, I'm guessing I'm just being a bit too naive and being too stupid as a situation. But, if there's... You know, if there's 10,000 of me, can you stop 10,000? Is there a comment... This is where... Like, thank you for making me 100% realise. Because I've never... Because this kind of conversation, like, is very... It's sad that it has to happen, but it's necessary, it's needed. Like, it is brutally... destroying for me and for anybody else who'd be watching this, that the fact that they have to... Like, I have to come to a realisation now that, look, I know for a fact, because, like, I can't... I'll never forget this conversation, to be honest. Because, for me, it's just going... It's being blind, but then being ignorant. But then, how much ignorance are you willing to take until you become more ignorant? Like, how much is it... Like, you know, I'm wearing a mask right now. This whole conversation with, like, you know, COVID, this COVID wasn't happening about as well. And that idea of oppression and just... Like, you know... Oh, it's not oppression, really. Because there's two... There's always two arguments. There's always two sides. So, we have to make middle ground. I think what you need to do in this situation when we're talking about animal rights is look at it through the eyes of the real victim here. You have your human rights here. You don't have to worry about me coming up and enslaving you and killing... I mean, I'd be breaking the law if I did. But right now... But there's nothing stopping you, though. There's nothing stopping me except for the law. And I will go to prison forever. But with these animals, they can legally be herded up into gas chambers and murdered so you can buy their tortured, suffered body and eat it. You can legally do that. But the only thing stopping you is your conscience and your ethics. And then you can make the decision to stop your contribution to this and then you can talk to other people about it and make an impact like that. So, you're not going to stop all the people out here from doing bad things. You can't. You can only control what you do. And just because you can't stop everything from going on out here doesn't give you, you know, carte blanche to go do what you want. Okay, that's... Thank you. That's what's really neat. That's the conversation that is more needed. It's the fact of, like, saying, look, maybe you shouldn't be doing this just because everybody else is. You know, are you going to be the wolf or are you going to be the sheep? It's very much that... Millions of us all went vegan. That would have an impact. Millions of people are going vegan. I would hope so. It's going to have an impact. Okay, so, if we're talking methane carbon emissions, the idea of finality, there has to be also a conversation of, like, coal and actually subsidizing energy plants and also sorting nose-outs as well at the same time as doing this. This is an environmental talk. Yeah, it's environmental altogether. There was a big study by... You're detecting the animals, then you're sorting out the CO2 emissions and then from there, then you've got to sort out the coal emissions and everything else. Then from there, you've got, you know, energy and how we innovate to make it more efficient to make those. These are conversations we need to have. Yeah. But, like, what you can personally do right now, and there was a study by Oxford University that said it was on 40,000 farms in 119 countries, and they concluded by saying that eating a vegan diet is the single biggest thing you can do to reduce your impact on planet Earth. But this, for me, is an animal rights issue. Veganism is about... If you think of veganism as a philosophy against the exploitation and cruelty to animals, that's what being a vegan is. It's like when you all say, I'm against racism. I don't like racism. You know, that's a philosophy you adhere to. You don't practice it sometimes. You don't stop being vegan on a Tuesday. You're a vegan because it's a philosophy that you adhere to. Okay. So it's very much like either being like a stoicism or very much a utilitarianism, the idea of just trying to stick to your gods and sticking to your principles. You're anti-animal abuse, so you're not going to go and eat an abused animal and pay for them to be tortured in a slaughterhouse. No, don't want to at all. Don't want to at all. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Look, this here is called Challenge 22. This is a free website. You can go on there, do a vegan challenge on Facebook. Okay. They help you out. They guide you. It goes for 22 days because it takes 21 days to rebuild a new habit. And this is just a new habit you can rebuild. So you would be sort of killing the animals, finding them a new place? What would happen is if gradually, as more and more people go vegan and stop funding these industries, they stop breeding so many animals into existence and it phases out over time. If not, there's some direct action that stops the government, political action that stops the government and forces the government to phase these industries out. Yeah, I just, yeah, well, you know, there's veganism and then you've got, you know, racism, political problems. Like, it's a very much competition of what takes precedence, really. Like, we can't keep keeping our lives as like the top wall. Really, animals, I would make a massive argument that you should sort out the animals first. Get that all sorted and hopefully, with us being a bit more humanitarian to animals, we might treat ourselves as more human to everybody else. I feel like it's that simple, really, because that's where we're coming from our own roots in the first place. But if there was more of a less manufacturing, less mass manufacturing of, like, milking and less mass manufacturing of, like, more of an organic root. But, yeah, again, if you watch the second documentary of Super Size Me, he talks about how organic is just like a vague word so they can basically fit in. The labelling is really untrustworthy. Yeah, yeah, like... Organic animals are still stabbed in the throat, so I don't want any of that. No, like, that's... So you would never... So you would never... Oh, that's an egg, yeah. Eggs, yeah. That's what I mean. Eggs are exploited hens who get murdered when the agriculture production declines and the males are all macerated as a chicks because they don't produce eggs. So the industry, organic and free... They're all horrible to animals. Oh, no, I know. If you go to these backyard farms, these homestead farms where there's only a few animals out there and they're like, okay, this bacon comes from this really humanely treated animal, but it's a chopped up animal. Like, that's where the rights violation is. You're chopping this animal up and eating them. Like, come on. Even with an egg, you're still chopping up something that's like a fetus or something that's, you know, could have been born anyway. Well, I think they're unfertilized eggs. So the rights violation comes when they're being mass exploited and then there's the backyard egg argument. Okay, what's that? So the backyard egg argument is like, okay. So if you have your own check-ins, you can have your own eggs? Well, it depends where you're sourcing these chicks from because if you source them from a hatchery, the males are all getting macerated anyway, so you're still supporting that industry. Okay, so you're better off just taking how many... You're better off just taking a 50-50 of roosters and like roosters and hens. Well, the hens? Like, the hens also need to eat their eggs back because they've been selectively bred to produce 300 eggs a year when they usually only produce like an egg a month. Okay. So like, they lose their calcium in their body, they need their egg back, but I always think, like, stop viewing animals as a resource because this is where factory farms began. Yeah. That this mentality towards animals that they're here for us. Yeah, yeah. And then not real... They're all backyard eggs before and then what happened? Everyone wants eggs. Yeah, I just... But then there's a whole conversation we wouldn't have this right now. We wouldn't have a camera or we wouldn't have a microphone if half of this like, you know, standardizing of like, or domestication of animals. If this doesn't come about, then we'd have more of a... I'm not against technology or civilization, by the way. Yeah, I didn't think you were. So it sounds weird, but if this didn't happen in the first place, then we wouldn't. So now it's more of a conversation of bringing it back. It's more of a conversation of paying homage to what we've done and what we should be, like, should be doing instead. Does that make any sense? If we don't have technology, we can have civilization. There are deaths that are going to happen because we live, like road accidents and animals are dying because of crops and things like this. But I think if we take out this, these trillions of animals being executed every year, then we've done a massive good thing. Okay. Well, yeah. I'd love to keep talking. I appreciate your time. But I'll just point the main points here. There needs to be change. And I love the... Is it a YouTube channel, I'm guessing? Is it on the... It's actually... If you open up, this here is my name here. Nice to meet you, Joey. So it's going to be on... This is my name on YouTube as well. But this is where this will be. You might get a follow and a subscribe. No worries, brother. Keep up the good work. I hope this is working you up a little bit to what's going on. Don't overwhelm yourself. Just focus on what you can do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are doing the overwhelming part. If that makes any sense. So then there has to be a conversation of do you do nutritional facts? Do you do a weekly diet? Or is it all on the YouTube channel? Do you have a YouTube video? There's information here about nutrition and health. No, I mean in the sense of will you or do you want me to do a YouTube video of someone who's never done veganism before to trying to do veganism? The whole idea of going from zero to hero, essentially. Do you want to film a video with you and me going out and feeding you? Well, if you are, I'll pay for it. I'll pay for it. We'll take you... Okay, yes. How about we take you to the shops and go get you what you need? Yeah, I guess so, yeah. Well, I'll call my body where my office, right? Take his email on that, eh? We'll take your contact from you then. Fantastic. I'll give you an email and we'll continue this on. Part two. No worries, brother. Take care, mate. Nice talking to you, man, eh? That was the most motivated, awake, new vegan I've ever seen. You know, I honestly don't see much holding him back. So yeah, we'll see if we can take him out. Take him out, do some vegan shopping. Set up his new vegan lifestyle. Hey? I think he inspired everyone to do this. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's a really good format. I really like it. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, take care, man. Louder with Crowder didn't inspire me. Earthling Ed did. Come on, come on, come on, come on. Don't leave. No, don't be scared. Come on, don't be shy. Tell me about it, tell me about it. What'd you get? Cheese and chicken?