 You're fixing to listen to one of the most amazing interviews here. This is really the untold story of my friend Jamil and this guy is what I want to really consider of to be the king of wholesaling. He's a wholesaler. He's not a real estate agent. He's done 6500 deals. He started in 2002, which is when I also got my real estate license, became a real estate agent. So we've been in the game the same amount of time, me as an agent and him as a wholesaler. But he went through the same stuff. You know, I made a million before I was 23 and lost it all in the crash and all that stuff. He actually made $12 million before he lost it all in the crash. So and he went through the same stuff, you know, just, you know, how to get out of the business, try to figure out what he wanted to do with his life. He actually went off and tried to pursue his dream of being a comedian in Hollywood. He moved from Canada to Hollywood to do that and then eventually ended up in Phoenix back wholesaling properties and now has a massive business. He's been, he has a show on A&E. They're working on a spin-off series and all kinds of stuff. But this guy will literally buy properties from you, from your clients for cash. Like, he's a cash buyer. Like, this guy could be a client of yours. He's in just about every market in the U.S. So he's going to tell you exactly at the end there how to get in touch with him if you in fact have properties that you want to present to him, for him and his company to buy. He is more than willing to look at those properties and give you guys a price. I'm actually probably going to take him up on that deal myself. But this was an incredible interview. We go through his entire story and learn all the ins and outs and another thing that I think that he's doing this really cool is, since he's a wholesaler, you know, wholesaling can have a bad connotation. They can have a bad rep out there. What he's trying to do is bring to the forefront, to the mainstream, a more ethical, you know, approach. He wants to, he's all about disclosure and making sure that the property knows exactly what he's doing here. And I think that's the bad rep that wholesaling gets is people and agents, you know, they feel like it's something that's not necessarily honest. Like you're doing something behind somebody's back. You're putting it on a contract for one thing and making money and selling it for something else. And when in fact, you're actually providing a service to the property owner. Why? Because it's a matter of convenience, right? And he really drills this down and explains this and lays it right out there for us to understand in layman's terms. So I hope you enjoy this interview. Let me know in the comments. And here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, make some noise for Ricky. So they're taking these old apartment buildings and then they're taking one title, they're making many titles, and then they renovate the whole building to sell them off, and that's what they do. You went through the same kind of stuff I went through. In 2005, I saw my last property as an agent. I went back to roofing houses. I was serving tables at night. Then I got a job on an oil rig. I was sleeping in my car. I was sleeping on friends' couches, eating out of people's refrigerators. I went to a pile of bankrupt tea. And I think to myself, what am I doing? Why am I sitting here in Los Angeles struggling to survive, struggling to eat, barely making it? I was about to get married. I'm thinking I've got to do something where I can actually support and get there in my family. I'm going to stop being selfish. You're supposed to be the producer in this deal. You're supposed to have somebody's best interest at heart. The owner will tell them a price that I want to list the property for. And the agent will say, okay, you want 280? We'll start at 310. I love laughing. I love making people laugh. It's just, to me, it's medicine. Hey, what's up, everybody? Ricky Karuth here, founder of Zero2Diamond.com, the first probably one and only free real estate coaching program for real estate agents. One mission to reduce the failure rate in the industry. One agent at a time. Welcome to the show. Got a good friend here, Jamil. What's up, bro? How you doing, dude? Good to see you. Love the fact that you provide a free coaching platform for real estate agents. I have a significant affinity for real estate agents. I work with so many of them and they're so instrumental to the world of real estate and helping them do better business, more business, figuring out how to be a top agent is, I think, one of the most important things for the industry's continued growth and survival. So I love that you do that. Yeah, no. So I've been a real estate agent since 2002 and I lost everything in the crash, came back, and I just wished to God somebody was around like myself back when I was new to tell me the real side of the business of being a real estate agent, which is that the market doesn't, isn't correlated to your business. It can fluctuate your business, but it can't take you out because closings happen every day forever. And I didn't realize that in the beginning, right? I also didn't realize that it's about building lifelong relationships with property owners and stuff. And I just, man, I got caught up in all the mainstream coaching and just closed the deal and set the appointment, all that stuff that I kind of lost side of. And like, I don't know how long have you been in the game? I started in 2002. Okay. So like back in years, you're like me. I mean, you got back in when during that little boom before it crashed. And I mean, it was just so easy. Like money was just laying around. So it, you didn't have to build relationships back then. And you were yeah, you were just making tons of money. And so yeah, it took me a while to really realize what what what the business really is, how to build a business that doesn't get too affected by market swings. And then I was like, dude, let me let me share this with other people because nobody really nobody mainstream is really talking about the stuff that I talk about. And I just felt a huge need for it. So I started out charging and then I realized that that's not going to work to really make a massive impact. So I went free and then built a massive brand around that now build businesses around the brand. So kind of did in reverse didn't really get into the education space too much. But I love the way I do it, you know, because I can go anywhere in the country and 500 agents are there ready to see me and tell me how much it changed their lives. So it's pretty rewarding at the end of the day. Wonderful, bro. Yeah. So tell me about you, man, let's get into a little bit of backstory. I want to hear about kind of how you came to be and then get into some other things. Of course. So, you know, I got started in 2002, as I just mentioned, I began my wholesaling real estate journey, if you want to call it that in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. So I was actually you start out as an agent or just straight investor from day one investor from day one. Yeah. And and you know, I don't even know if you could call me an investor on day one. But what I what happened was, I was I was supposed to be a doctor, right? I'm of East Indian descent. You know, my parents gave me two options. They were like medicine or leave home. And so I went down that path. I got my science degree. I did really well on my medical school entrance exam. And then, you know, lo and behold, I don't get in. And that was just like shocking for me, right? I had I had so so many emotions about somebody being able to make a decision on my destiny and it being out of my control. And so that's what pushed me into entrepreneurship. So I begin in, you know, in this media company, where, you know, early 2000s, I'm calling businesses and telling them this thing called the internet is real and that they got to move from, you know, yellow pages or in addition to the yellow pages advertising, they've got to start building an online presence because it's going to be the wave of the future. And I did really well at that. I was, you know, I basically cold call businesses and read out of the phone book. But I did so well that I put our company out of business because I would sell these websites for $600 a piece, but they actually cost us $700 to make. And so, you know, we, we really, you know, felt that when that business kind of, you know, spun out, but it put me in proximity to these two individuals that were doing real estate development. And I was eavesdropping on a conversation they were having and they were talking about making $160,000 on one deal. And I, you know, my mind is blown, right? Because I come from a very lower middle class, you know, life. I my mom and dad worked, you know, near seven days a week. My mom would take every overtime opportunity she could get my father, you know, he shoveled gravel, you know, and clean mud in truck bays for his entire life. So, you know, I saw my parents struggle. I saw them work really hard and sacrifice everything for their kids. But I didn't want to have a life where I didn't see my children, where I wasn't home like they were, right? And so, you know, that, that really, when I see and hear about people making that kind of money, I'm like, what do I do? And so, you know, immediately they're like, dude, you don't have a license, you don't have any good, you don't have good credit, you don't have any money, there's nothing you can do to help us. And then they just carry on talking about how they can't find any building lots. And so I'm like, well, hold on a second, what do you mean building lots? And then they tell me that while we're looking for these old bungalows that have this, you know, R2 zoning that have a 50 foot wide front elevation and 120 feet in depth. And if you can find us something like that, we'll happily buy it. Okay, cool. So next day, walking my dog, I'm actually living in a neighborhood where this kind of redevelopment is going on. And I walked by this house that I had tried to rent a few months earlier, but it was 200 bucks a month out of my budget. So that's just, you know, an idea of like where I was financially in my life, $200 decided where I was going to live, right? And so I call the sign because it's still available. And I asked the lady, you know, what's happening? And she's just having a hard time renting it. So then I asked if she'd be interested in selling it. And her answer was sure if somebody paid me the right price. And then I asked, what's that number for you? She says 350 grand. So then I be lining it back to the office. And I talked to the two guys and I asked, well, what would you guys pay? And their answer is 400,000 all day. Now, you know, in my head, I'm thinking, okay, wait, I could buy this for 350, I could sell it for 400, but I have no money and I have no idea how to do this. Most people would have just connected the two and then bagged for scraps, right? But my mind didn't work that way. My mind thought, what can I do to try to do this deal? So I call my uncles, my aunts, everybody that I know that could possibly help me. Nobody wants to give this guy money, right? They're like, dude, you're out of your mind. So everything can go wrong in this situation. And you've never done this before. So no. And, and so then I go to the phone book, which is what I know how to do. And I start calling real estate attorneys. And I get all the way to the letter S, S-T-E-E-D, Steed. David Steed is the attorney who answers my call. And I explain the situation to him and he's like, oh, that's easy. It's a process called the skip transfer. And that's the equivalent of a double escrow in America. And so I asked how to do it. He's like, really simple. I'm going to email you a contract right now, print it out, and you're going to need two of them. You're going to be one where you're the buyer, but make sure you write and or a signee on your buyer name. And then the second one, you're the seller. You're going to bring both of those contracts to me. Make sure that the closing dates line up because they have to be the same if we're going to flow the money through. And as soon as everything is done, I'll have a check ready for you. And I'm just blown away at this, right? So I do it. I put all the pieces together. I take the file over to his office and like literally a few weeks later, I have $47,000 after he takes his fee in a cashier's check that I'm staring at, thinking what did I just do? And that's some balls. I mean, I just put it together. I'm a dot connector, right? And I mean, he had some balls to like never have done that before. And now you're in these legal contracts. And you know, you just, you know, I guess when you have nothing, a contract doesn't mean anything in that sense, right? Like what can you take from me if I screw up? I don't even own a car, right? Like it's just, I even I lease that, right? Like it's just everything was just tough, right? And so I don't know that I had balls, but I think what I did have was a general, you know, curiosity about. Well, you were talking to a lawyer about it. So that had to give you some kind of relief. Of course, yeah. And, you know, that started me off, right? So I'm hooked at this point. And I continue building and we had a whole like year, you had a year salary right there. I mean, you were good. Yes, you're ready to roll. I was and it got even better for me because what happened is I started understanding, you know, this business was, I get it now, I'm providing the raw material for these developers, right? So if they're doing if they're doing new development on these bungalows, then what about apartment buildings? And then my eyes move. And I see all of these condo conversions going on in my town. And I think, well, wait, so they're taking these old apartment buildings, and then they're, they're taking one title, they're making many titles, and then they renovate the whole building to sell them off. And that's what they do. So they need old apartment buildings. So that I'm driving around my city looking for all the handwritten for rent signs that are outside of like 15, 16, 20 unit buildings. And I'm calling everyone and lo and behold, every, every so often a guy says, yeah, I'm tired. I'd be interested in an offer. I'd be interested in talking. And then I make friends with the developers who are easy to find because they've got their sales centers all over town where they're selling these, you know, redeveloped condominium units. And so I just start connecting the dots there and I can make a hundred grand every time I flip a building. And so, you know, my whole life changes, right? I go from, from a complete loser with no, no money to, you know, making nearly $12 million. And I make this decision that, oh my gosh, you know, I don't want to be the deal finder anymore. I want to be the developer because, you know, I'm a young guy at the time right in my twenties and, you know, cars and, and, and friends and girls were really interesting to me at the time, right? And so I see this developer driving in a Rolls-Royce Phantom and it just completely blows my mind. And so I'm like the developer, yeah, the guy who's doing the condo conversions and I just, you know, I thought, I want that. I want what that guy has. And it's really the catalyst that pushes me into development, which is how I end up losing everything. Because I, I take all of the funds that I have and I, I purchase four apartment buildings and I have my mom and dad cosign construction loans with me and the market turns and everything goes. You know, we lose all the down payments, we lose all the money from that we had put in, in starting the renovations. We lose the buildings. We lose our personal homes. We lose our vehicles. And, and, and it's this really terrible, you know, situation where, you know, my mom, my dad, my sister, my niece, 150 pound dog, our cat, we're all living in a two bed, one bath apartment. And that was a real big fall from grace for us. Right. And so it was, it was a really interesting cycle for me to really, you know, do that and then lose it all. And I didn't think that I'd be able to do it again. You know, I, I, I was exhausted. I was depressed and like anybody who's tired and depressed, you, you, you make a decision to become a comedian. And that's what I did. I left real estate. No way. Yeah. I left real estate and I moved to Hollywood and I gave my shot at, at stand up and sketch comedy. And I did all right there. Really? Yeah. But you know, real estate. So what year was that? 2008. Okay. 2008, 2009. Where do you live now? Now I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, and I have a house in LA. So I go back and I'm actually heading to LA this afternoon. I go back and forth. So you were in Canada. Correct. When all this happened. Yes. Okay. And then you moved to Hollywood to do that, to do the comedian stuff, comedy. Right. And then, and then you ended up in Phoenix. And now you're kind of like that. So you never went back. So you left in 08 and then you never went back to Canada as far as living there. Not living there full time. No, I have, I have a daughter there from a previous relationship. And you know, I'm very close to her mom and my, and my little girl, she's with me right now in the United States for summer break. But yeah, I never went back to live. I, you know, for a while there, I just felt too sad. You know, every time I'd go to Calgary and I'd see the city. Did you grow up there? I did. Yeah. I grew up there. And you know, just having that ride of, of, of, you know, doing well and then losing it and then feeling like everybody's laughing at you or that, you know, and then I, you know, I come to terms with the fact that nobody cares. Right. As you begin, you get older, you realize no one's thinking about you. You're the only one thinking about you and nobody cares what you do. And so I, you know, I, I had to grow, but there were moments in my, you know, early twenties and, you know, early thirties there where I was just, I thought, you know, I was a failure because of what had happened. But, you know, it's just life. It happens. Yeah. You, you went through the same kind of stuff I went through in 2005. I saw my last property as an agent. I went back to roofing houses. I was serving tables at night. Then I got a job in an oil rig. I was sleeping in my car. I was sleeping on friends' couches, eating out of people's refrigerators. I went, I filed bankruptcy. And actually in 2008, I got back in real estate. And that's when I started kind of starting to crush it because things were so cheap. I mean, it was so easy to find people that want to buy properties then people don't realize how easy it was. And there wasn't really any competition. All the other agents had pretty much left the business and there was all this inventory and stuff. So, okay, so all that happened. And then you got back into, and like you, like you're the wholesaling king, right? Like, yeah, that's your wholesaling, right? You didn't get back to developing. You just know when you got back in, you just stuck the wholesaling up to now. So, so how, how that even happened again, because I didn't make this conscious decision, I'm going to re-enter real estate, right? I'm still living in LA. I'm, I'm struggling as a comedian, but you know, even the fact that I can pay rent is a testimony to the fact that I didn't completely suck. But I wasn't Kevin Hart, you know what I mean? I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, being cast in movies or anything that was going to actually change my life. And so, you know, I have to, I have to figure out how to live. LA is expensive, right? Everything is really expensive there, like from gas to food to shelter to, you know, just general life. It's, it's all more. And so now I'm thinking, okay, well, I got to figure out ways to make some money. And so I'm starting looking at Phoenix because the market is bottomed now. And, and you can, you can buy these really, really beautiful apartment building, like not buildings, but like units condo condo units for like 25,000 bucks that used to sell for 400 before the crash, right? And then you can rent those units out for 800 bucks a month. So I would make a little bit of money in LA. And I would go, I'd go and put an offer on a short sale on these condominiums. And then I was like, okay, well, why not just other properties too? Maybe I can buy some single family houses. And so I'm writing offers and it's in the short sale time. And it's the early days of short sales before they had all those deed restrictions and all the addendums that they attached on the short sales. I'm sure you're familiar with the 30, 60, 90 day deed restrictions. You're familiar with the non assignability that, you know, no can't be in a contract to sell prior to closing all of that. So it was before any of that I was probably one of the reasons why all those addendums came into play. So you were hell whole selling short sales. I was wholesaling short sales early. Early. And so how that happens is I'm, you know, I have because you remember short sales, you'd write 10 offers, one would get approved, right? And so you literally just writing everything you're trying to just write contracts on all of it because everything is so low. And the banks are rejecting nine out of 10 of them, right? So I have these, you know, couple contracts and play and then they get approved. Two houses in Glendale, Arizona get approved for 30,000 bucks each. And, and I'm like, okay, you know, I can't buy these. I don't have the money. But I remember what I did in Canada, where I would sell the contract. So I just go to Craigslist and I write a little five minute ad on my on Craigslist and my phone rings in 15 minutes. And an investor in Phoenix, Arizona drives by the properties after I give him the address, and he says he'll take them. And I make another $18,000 wholesaling those contracts. And I think to myself, what am I doing? Why am I sitting here in Los Angeles, struggling to survive, struggling to eat, you know, barely making it. I put, I just, I was about to get married. I'm thinking I've got to do something where I can actually support and take care of my family. I got to stop being selfish, you know, and I got to give up on this, you know, dream of being famous and having, you know, a comedy show or whatever and just go and do work. And so I tell us, tell us your most, tell us your, your, your most well received joke, man. Oh, dude, I didn't have any well received jokes. They were, they're, they're all dirty and blue. And that was another thing that I, I, you know, I, I, one of my best, my best sketches, though, that it got millions of views was called the glory hole burger joint. Oh my gosh. That even yeah. So, so, so nine out of 10 times would come out of the hole would be the best burger you'd ever eat in your life. But one of the times out of 10, it's not. Geez, okay. Yeah. So, you know, it did, it did really well, but you know, and I look back at it now, I think, gosh, it could have been smarter. Maybe that's why I didn't make it. But um, well, you tried something you went, you went, you went off the beaten path on that one. So you had to, you had to give it a shot. Yeah, I had another, I had another bit where I would, um, I was, I was like a bombing standup comedian. The bit was I was bombing like I was, I was so, the jokes were so bad. And there were so, they were so atrocious that ultimately I built up the show, I built up the set until at the end of it, they were howling because it was like, I get it. I see the bit is that this is bad. Right. And so, you know, I'd have fun with the man. It was, it was a good time. But um, you know, leaving that I pack up on 121212. It's my birthday, December 12, 2012. I'm in a U-Haul driving on the 10 from Los Angeles to Phoenix to live here. And I'm in tears, right? Because I feel like I'm selling out. I'm like, you know, leaving my dreams behind. And, and then I hit a dust storm. They call them Haboobs here in Phoenix. And I hit this giant dust storm. I'd never seen one before. I'm on the 10 freeway. I can't see an inch in front of me. I feel like I'm in the apocalypse. And, you know, it passes and then, you know, eventually it's all, I get to Phoenix. And it's the best thing that ever happens to me in my life. I meet my two business partners, Josiah and Hunter, my sister comes along with and we start Key Glee, which is, you know, the nation's largest wholesale operation now. And we're franchised in over a hundred markets. My operation will do anywhere from, you know, 60 to 80 transactions a month. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's a good life. So, you know, it's a, it's a good, a good opportunity and a good business. And so, you know, that led to Pace and I developing a really fun friendship and him and I are, you know, a very interesting pair. We have a lot of fun competing on not only real estate deals, but we compete in the education space. We, we compete in everything we do. Most people think we're partners, but it's not true. We're just best friends and competitors that, that, that compete. And, but we help each other a lot, right? And so that led to him and I, you know, collaborating on a fix and flip together that turned into a YouTube video that he put on his YouTube channel that turned into A&E reaching out wanting to do a TV show. And then that led to, you know, finally me being on television. And that was a dream come true and super fun. And we're in talks right now on a spin off for Pace and I right now for a new show. And so it's, it's all good, dude. I've really enjoyed the, the opportunities and the, the blessings that have found their way to me. And I, and I truly believe that real estate is the catalyst for all of it, you know? So now I have a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation for, you know, not only the business, but everybody who wakes up every day and bust their butt to get it done. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. So, so A&E finds this YouTube video and they do a show and now you're, you know, we probably do spin off. So don't tell them what all that'll, what all that'll turn into. And then like your whole selling business right now. Okay. So like, let's just say 2021, the year of the boom. Okay. Yeah. Do you know how many deals you guys did? How many? I don't know. I don't know how many deals we did, but I know we did $38 million and 18 of that was profit. Okay. $38 million, 18 mills profit. What's, what's the expenses? What do you, what do you pay for? We run at about, we run at about 60% expenses. We have a big operation, right? So our expenses are people, people, you know, acquisition we don't go direct to seller. Our business model is relationship based. So everything that we do is based on relationships with real estate agents, real estate agents and other wholesalers, right? So we're, we're, we actually have very little in marketing expenses. The money that we pay out is to ACREPs, disposition reps, transaction coordinators, our tech team. And then we, we have this really big department at Keegley called our intake systems. And that's the people who spend all day building our buyers list. This is one of the things that we do really well at Keegley is we, we find really good buyers that have interesting, interesting businesses and, and, and different use cases for different styles of properties. And because they have different use cases for these properties, ultimately they may be able to pay a little bit more than somebody else, which makes a, makes us more competitive. And so it's this really beautiful ecosystem of how we, how we a find the deal, build a relationship with the real estate agent, build a relationships with the buyers and, and, you know, away we go. So, so 38 mil in 2020, that was the year of the boom. Was that the biggest year? That was, that was 21, I mean, 2021. So, so 21, was that the biggest year? Like have the, have, you know, I mean, for sure, bigger than the, than the next, you know, we, we had a, we did really well in the first parts of 22. And then we took some hits because we, our fix and flip business lost money. Our wholesale business made money, but our fix and flip business lost. You mean 2022? 2022, yeah. So the flip, so the flip business lost money, the wholesale business made money. Correct. Correct. So in 21, the year of the boom where you, obviously you were flipping and wholesaling that year too. Yeah. So it was just gravy all around, you know, got you, got you. Okay. And then what about this year? Like, is it gotten progressively worse from 21 to 23? Or is it you having a better year this year than you had last year? Much better, much way better year. In fact, we had our biggest week ever, just a couple of just two weeks ago, where we, we sold on our, on our board. And so we'd never done a week like that, you know, and what was it you cut out for a second? 600,000. Oh, 600 grand. And then how many people like the whole company, I guess, like how many people, you know, are like our employees and, you know, all the different people. Close to a hundred people there. Okay. It's a, it's a big shop. You guys have like headquarters there and in Glendale and Phoenix, Tempe actually. Phoenix. Okay. I'm just kind of, I want to understand the business a little more, you know, for everybody watching and everything, just to kind of understand what you have going on here. Like you're, you're running and like, so you are you, what's your position here? Are you the president? Are you the founder? You're the CEO? Like what is your co-founder? And I'm the chief business development officer. So my, you know, I, I originally, I was a lot of the business, right? Because I, I was the first person that was bringing in a lot of the opportunities, a lot of the deals. And, and, you know, when I, when I first got approached and, and talked to Josiah and Hunter about building this thing out, you know, they, they were really talented at selling properties. And I was really good at finding the opportunities, but I didn't really, I didn't, I wasn't a dispositions guy. I was an acquisitions guy and they were dispositions people. And so it was a natural fit for, for us to all work together. And so, you know, they were very systemized. They, everything that they did had a process was, you know, technology based and was replicatable by others because it was just so well laid out. On the other side, there's me and I'm like this dinosaur, right? Everything I do on, you know, pen and paper. I have no CRMs. I'm a handshake guy. I'm just a completely different model than what they are, right? And so, you know, the, one of the bigger challenges is when we got together was them, they basically had a person shadowing me for an entire month. And they're like, we need to know exactly what he does from the minute he gets up to the minute he goes to sleep. Because if we can figure out his systems and how he's getting these opportunities and creating these deals, we can, we can replicate that and then we can hire for it. And so that's what they did. They, they shadowed me for an entire month. They saw, okay, what does he do? How does he do it? Who does he talk to? What does he say? You know, and they were snapshotting everything and really just building that out. And then finally, they took everything that they had documented from my process and then made a position out of it and then hired for it. And, you know, lo and behold, we end up getting some pretty incredible team members and, and then, you know, Keegley starts to blossom in bloom and it's no longer just on my shoulders. But to answer the question about what I do and like what specifically wholesaling is, you know, for anyone that isn't aware, because it's got such an interesting and sometimes a weird connotation with some real estate agents, you know, real estate agents have this I believe uneducated idea of wholesaling, not because the real estate agents are uneducated is because the folks that they may have encountered were uneducated. And that's where the problems have happened, right? So if you look at wholesalers of the past, it's the, it's the bare, it's the lowest barrier to entry to get involved in real estate investing, right? You don't need money. You don't need a real estate license. You don't need, you don't need much of anything. You need contracts. You need contracts and you need to be able to find an opportunity. You need to spot potential because the way that I look at what wholesaling is, wholesaling is essentially selling potential. I have to find an opportunity that somebody else would want. And the, and then once I can contract that opportunity, now I have the rights to buy it. Now I can sell those rights to somebody else who would then go and realize that opportunity, right? So wholesaling is essentially looking for potential and then selling that potential to somebody else. So I don't take my profits from the homeowner. I pay 100% of as is value. I compete against every other investor in town when I'm writing offers. So I pay what I'm supposed to pay for the, for the property. I get my profits from the potential profits of somebody else, right? So they're saying, what could I do with this? What's the best case scenario for me on this? What's the maximum ARV I can hit? Or what, what use case can I bring out of this deal? And what's my potential profit margin? Am I willing to pay $10,000 to this guy who put it all together for me to realize that profit? Many say yes. And that's where the wholesale business model gets, you know, is born. Where I think the problems come in is when you've got wholesalers that lie, right? They don't disclose what they're doing. They don't tell the real estate agent what they're doing and how they're doing it. I think the other aspect of it that is in my opinion problematic is when they don't have somebody backing them, they don't have a financial partner or some kind of way to close the deal. If, for instance, something happens in the transaction and the buyer backs out or something goes down and you need access to funds to be able to close the property. And so that's where I think new wholesalers have made some problems for real estate agents and their relationships with their clients and possibly the reputation of the wholesaler because they just leave people high and dry. And so what my goal has been is to redefine the way that people operate and do business. That's why Keegley exists, right? We bring liquidity to the business. We back our wholesalers that are out there writing offers for us with our own funds, right? So I actually have a million dollars sitting in an account where I keep it there so that when these guys are out writing offers, the offer is actually backed by cash. There's money backed by cash that backs this offer. This is a real offer now, right? And so that gives them power, right? It gives them the ability to go out there and actually do things, right? And so my goal has been to elevate the business model to be able to do things in an ethical manner. And every contract I write has a full disclosure on it of what I might do. Every contract I have the following disclosure on it. Buyer is an LLC in the business of buying and selling real estate for a profit. Buyer may choose to fix and flip, buy and hold or wholesale contract at buyer's sole discretion during the inspection period. All rights reserved. That to me is clear as day what I could do, what I might do and what I possibly will do. And so when a seller sees that, reads it and signs it, they understand. The agent sees it, reads it, understands it. They understand what they got their client to sign. Everybody understands. So there's no ambiguity, right? There's no like what's going on here. And I think that's where wholesalers and wholesaling and the educators of past failed. I think they've failed in showing people that you can do this honestly. You don't have to hide in the bushes. You don't need to do this surreptitiously. You can do this as an upright business person, but conduct yourself accordingly. Yeah, I think that's the problem is with agents is, you know, they're there for the fiduciary duty, right, to get the best deal for their client. And I think a lot of them look at wholesaling like, okay, well, if you can get more for the property, then isn't the fiduciary responsibility to make sure that the seller, if you're going to flip a contract and there's a buyer that's willing to pay 40,000 more in close on the same closing date that you put it under contract for, then it doesn't that go against the fiduciary duties of the agent to look out for your client and make sure that if the agent was able to put that deal together, they should have. They didn't have that buyer. They didn't have that buyer. I did. They didn't have that relationship. They didn't work for that. I did. Well, speaking in generalities though. Well, some wholesalers will go to, they'll put something under contract and then go to the agent for the buyer. That happens. The same agent? Well, no, I've seen wholesalers go direct to seller, get it under contract, and then go to an agent for a buyer. Right. I've seen that happen as well too. I have had wholesalers go direct to seller and bring this contract to me to buy. It happens all the time. I think with respect to real estate agents and the responsibility, the fact is that when you are a realtor and you're working in this world of speed and convenience and opportunity and what the client actually wants and needs, right? If you think about it, every person I've ever asked this question to has answered this the same way. Have you ever traded in a car, Ricky? You have, right? I have too. Were you not aware that the speed and convenience of trading in the car is what you were trading in order to drive away with the new car? You knew that place was going to go and sell that car for more money, that you were leaving money on the table for speed and convenience. I think when agents provide a cash solution to a seller, they understand that they're not getting maximum value for it. They understand that they could probably put some money into the house and sell for more. I'm not buying retail ready properties, right? I'm buying stuff that you have to make a substantial amount of investment into that property in order for a new value to be realized. And so again, the fact that I'm making that 20 or $10,000 spread in between doesn't happen until somebody else spends money and invests in that property to potentially make it worth more money. And again, I lost how much money last year on my fix and flip. So we don't always win, right? So every wholesaler that I paid buying my deals for all of half of 2022, right? Did those sellers get it? Get shortchanged? No. Did the wholesalers get shortchanged? No. I'm the one who lost. I made the risk. I was willing to give them a portion of my profits to get the deal and it didn't pan out. So this is business. This is just business. And I understand the argument of the fiduciary. But here's the other piece, right? I've also asked this question in an auditorium of 5,000 real estate agents and only a handful of people raised their hands. How many real estate agents in here were taught how to comp properties during licensing school? Right, none. None. Like literally there was like two or three of them were like, I think. No, they weren't. And so I think to myself, hold on a second. You're supposed to be the fiduciary in this deal. You're supposed to have somebody's best interests at heart yet nobody taught you how to value property. When your job is to do that. Yeah. You're not taught that? Yeah. No, that's a whole different conversation with the education of agents coming into the business and what they're actually taught and everything. You know, the bar is super low. Okay. So that's the other piece too with agents. They don't always know, right? Yeah, they don't. They don't know what the best case solution is. That's really one of the most dangerous parts about it is they think they do. Yeah. I did a two day challenge with Ryan Pineda last week. He went to Vegas and stuff and the agents were, it was agents we're talking to, of course. And one of the questions was about are you doing what's best for the owner to take this property down at a much cheaper price? It's worth 300 and you can say I'll give you 250 cash today for it. And I'm like, you're not doing them any justice if you don't do that deal, if that's what they want to do. Right. Right. If they want to do that deal because they want cash today and you're giving them that, you're giving them that, it's almost like to say, oh, no, I can get 300 for it. We'll just put it on the market and start showing it. We can get more money for it. The agents think, and I want to get more money for my property owner, right? When they're not even listening to what's really happening on the property owner side with the best thing for the property. They don't care about some of these people don't care about price. Exactly. And then fiduciary duty isn't all price either. It's what was best for the client. It's not. And you're right. And that's the point I'm trying to make. I said it on the live and hopefully people hear it here and here again. It's not all about price all the time. And agents get in a big trouble with this man. They'll like, they will, the owner will actually, you've probably seen this a lot, the owner will tell them a price that I want to list the property for. And the agent will say, okay, you want 280, we'll start at 310. It's like, we're going the wrong way here. They said they'll do 280. That's where you start. You threw it at 310 and it gets no showings. And now you're reducing and backtracking on the market. And it's just not a good situation. But there again, they're just thinking price, price, price, price, price. Now, I like that. That's the other part of it. There's the, oh, I can get more for my client than the whole seller. There's that part of it. Then there's the, well, what if the client, what if the seller, what if the property owner finds out how much more we're selling it for and gets mad because they see how much money we made just writing a contract and flipping the contract to somebody else. But it all comes down to disclosure. Correct. And then realizing that, yeah, they're probably going to make some money on this some way, some somehow. That's what they do. That's what they're in business to do. They're helping us by getting us out of this thing quick. We're getting what we want. And they let, they can go do whatever they want, get whatever they want. Do you ever? Yeah, you do a lot of deals, right? You've probably, have you done thousands of wholesale deals? I've done over a thousand in a year once. So you've done thousands of wholesale deals? 6,500, over 6,500 in total. Yeah, you've done, you know, 6,500 deals. How many of those sellers got upset about how much you made on the deal? Very few. Very few. Do you have any specific stories? I don't even have. I have actually one, I have one story. I have one specific story is actually a Supreme Court judge in Arizona that sold me his house. And I wholesaleed it. And he was pissed, like really mad. Now, to be fair, right? When I, when I had first got into the business as well, I didn't have that disclosure language on my contract. And it wasn't required in Arizona either. And so I actually did had eyes to fix and flip this house. I didn't come in there and play around and act as, you know, as if I was going to do one thing and then the, and then do the, do the other. But I could see how it maybe came out that way because I went there with my sister. She took measurements. We looked at the house and thought, dang, this thing is so janky. Like the layout of this house is so bad. We're going to need to like blow all the walls out. We're going to need to get a beam in here. It's going to be this huge permitting process. This is not as not a cosmetic flip. This is, you know, blow the roof off and really redesign this. And it's going to be pretty intensive. And I don't know that we necessarily want to do that. But we're still in contract and we still have seven days on our inspection period. So let's try to let's just try to flip the contract. And that's what I did. So I make 10,000 bucks, right? I sell the contract to somebody, the judge sees it and loses his mind. And I get emails and it's threatening and it's just like, I'm thinking, okay, well, 10,000 made 10 grand. Yeah. I mean, what was the total price of the house? 700 and something. Like agents make like 50 grand off that. Yeah. Yeah. And the eight, here's the other piece, right? So the agent had had this thing on the market for quite some time and they nothing was happening. And so I come to the table and, you know, I'm now my offer is the is the one that they have in play. And then so this judge is angry because he's like, well, I could I that's $10,000 should be mine. But actually no, sir, it's not. And it shouldn't be because the relationship I have with this buyer who who I know who I know personally that will come in and do this project. You don't get to that guy unless I came in and brought this situation to and put it together. You don't he's too busy doing his other world doing his other life. He relies on me to go out and find him opportunities. So sorry, sir, you don't meet this man without me. That's how it works. And I'm not taking money from you, sir, I'm taking money from him. He's giving me some of his potential profit. He's leaving that on the table for me so that I can be compensated for what I did, which is find him the opportunity. And, you know, he went and he looked up all the laws and, you know, he eventually settled down because he was like, okay, well, he everything he did was good and legal. And so he's entitled to the money. And that was a real big lesson for me, right? Because I'm like, if I'm going to get in trouble, this is the time I'm going to get in trouble. If this is if something comes out that there's something not right here, then I'm going to find out and I'm going to learn today. But I learned I learned that I was totally okay. And then, you know, I started I started really thinking about, well, you know, this business of wholesaling, what else does it exist? And it exists everywhere, Ricky. Look, you go to McDonald's, right? And I buy a Big Mac for six bucks. Okay, well, we all know that that's not how much that that Big Mac in totality cost. You know, at some point that ground chuck was in a cow, how much did how much does that beef actually cost? Every time it's reprocess repackaged, transported or something else happens to it value is added, right? People worked something happened. And so even though that Patty goes from here to here, the price went up. When the Patty goes from here to here, the price went up. When the Patty goes from this to the store, the price went up when it went into the hands of the person who put it in the box, the price went up. That's business. That's the wholesale step up model. And we do the exact same thing with houses. Yeah, price goes up because it's now I put together the plan I put together the situation and I presented it to the guy who's going to go and make the Big Mac. Yeah, I was in a deal with DR Horton where I sold them a chunk of land. And, and, you know, this is a publicly traded company. Yeah, right. And I looked at the contract when they first wrote it and it had, you know, and or a signee. And I thought, interesting. Like for them, it was like DR Horton or a sign. Yeah, it was one of their entity names, Andorra signs. And, and, and you know, the agents like, oh, this is super normal. Every large institutional buyer, every, every big company will have that in their buyer name. It's just a non-negotiable thing. And I think, oh, yeah, I'm fine with it. I do it all the time. I'm just, I'm curious as to why DR Horton would have Andorra signs on their contract. Like, are they not planning to close this? They wholesale it, dude. DR Horton wholesale it and resold it and resold it to another boutique buyer. And I thought, wow. So it's not just the, it's not just the little guys out here doing this business model. It's everybody. Yeah. So it was eyeopening, man. It was eyeopening to me. And I didn't have the relationship with that boutique builder that I could have sold that property for more money to them. No, DR Horton did. So they were entitled to the money they made. I had the property listed on the MLS. I had agents involved. I'll give you one more story, okay? Where this is where you can start to really understand the value that can be brought. Monique Walker, she's a real estate agent here in Phoenix, Arizona. She's one of my, you know, favorite collaborators in the business. And she has this house, a two-bed, two-bath mansion in Arcadia, Arizona. First and foremost, who builds a two-bed, two-bath mansion, right? That's like the weirdest house. It's 6,000 square feet with two bedrooms. It's just open, just big open space, right? And this guy had been really over the top with the finishes as well. He puts it on the market. They can't sell it. She listed that a million dollars, nothing. She reduces 950, nothing. She reduces 900, still nothing. She calls me up. She's like, Jay, I got a problem with this house, man. This guy really needs to sell this place. I can't get anybody to bite. He'll take anything at this point right now. He's just desperate. He wants to leave. He wants to go move in with his kids. His wife passed away. It's like, it's just, it's tough, right? Help me, help me, help me, help me. And so I look at it and I think, okay, give me a minute. Let me see what I can do with this thing. So I'm thinking, I'm like, no, there's no opportunity for somebody to come here and fix this. This house is a disaster. Somebody just needs to demolish it. And that's when the idea came. I'm like, oh, hold on a second. What size is the lot? Oh, it's on an acre in Arcadia. Okay. Well, what are they building around here? Oh, they're building all these little new houses, but they're on 6500, 7000 square foot lots. Okay. So what's the zoning? R16. Okay. So that means that I can take this acre and I can get six lots out of it. Yes. I know what to do. We're going to demolish the mansion and I'm going to package this and I'm going to take it to a builder. Well, I didn't demolish the mansion. I put the mansion under contract at 900K. I take it to a builder, Mike Sirbebe and Scott Gould here in Phoenix, Arizona. And I say, this is the play. You can take this mansion. You can bulldoze it. I'm sure you could scrap so much of the items inside. There's, you know, beautiful appliances, beautiful flooring, beautiful granite, all kinds of things. I don't know what you'll do with it all, but you can scrap that, demolish the rest, and then subdivide these and get six lots and each of your houses will sell for 800,000. Done. How much do you want for it? Million bucks sold. I make 100 grand. Monique gets to make 6% double ending it and I was able to do a deal the MLS wasn't able to sell for six months. So again, in the fiduciary responsibility, her job was to help her client get it done. 100 grand had nothing to do with it. The 100 grand I made is the value I added by finding the play. I spot the potential and I knew what they could gain from it, but the market rejected it at 900K. It wasn't until creativity came to the table that the $100,000 in value was created. Mm-hmm. That's it. It's interesting, bro. I mean, people need to think more outside the box. Correct. Right. And about these kind of situations, there's a lot of listings that just sit on the market that things could get a little creative on, honestly. And we're just kind of in this box, like it's on MLS, everybody can see it. You know, let's reduce the price. That's the answer, right? So, okay. Let's switch over to personal branding, right? Because I know that you've started to put a lot of content. When did you start putting out content? COVID? Yeah, yeah. Bro, to kind of fill you in on me, right? I've always been overweight, right? And so I was kind of like, I don't want to be on camera. People are going to say mean things to me. And, you know, I don't really need to do this. But, you know, COVID comes, I'm bored. I have all this knowledge, right? I've done all these deals. I have this incredible company and Brent Daniels actually is the first one to say something to me. He says, dude, I got to say something to you. And, you know, take this with as much love as possible. You are effing up because you owe the marketplace your love. You owe the marketplace the ethics and how you do business. And there's so many clowns. There's so many people in this space right now that are just robbing folks. They charge guys hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach them how to wholesale. You know, they're robbing people and they're not even showing them what to do. You know, meanwhile, you're the biggest wholesaler I even know. I think you're the biggest in the country. And you're quiet. You haven't said you're quieter than a church mouse. Why? What's your problem? And I just was honest with him. I said, I don't think I look good. You know, I've gained so much weight since getting married. You know, I don't know, dude, I just I don't want people to make fun of me. I don't want to do that. And so COVID comes around. I'm bored. And all of a sudden I just I wake up one day and I'm like, whatever, you know, who cares? So I start I start on during COVID, I used to walk around my my area. And I'd I'd walk for like five, six hours a day because I was bored, right? I had nothing to do. So I was like, I wanted to exercise and lose some weight. And then I wanted to get some sunshine so I could be outside. So I used to just turn my IG on and I record like thoughts, things that I would things and ways that I would make money wholesaling. I was talking about, you know, how how I would approach real estate agents, the things I would say, I would talk about how I was working with my title companies. I would I would just went into all of it. I just started just sharing my my tips and things that I would do on a day to day basis as a wholesaler. And all of a sudden people started watching. I started getting clicks, likes, comments. And I'm like, this is cool. This is fun. So then I kept it going. And then my buddy says, Hey, you should start a YouTube channel because your stuff's pretty good. You know, like, let's get this on YouTube and see what happens. And so I do that. And then, you know, the content world and and and just me as a brand because I have this, this history and comedy, I love laughing. I love making people laugh. It's just it's the it's, you know, to me, it's medicine, right. And and I think that even in this world of education, wouldn't it be so much better if you learn from somebody that made you laugh every few minutes and like you had fun with and it wasn't just a drag. It was just this joyful, fun, happy, positive. And at some points, you know, we even get into personal development and spirituality in my in my community because I mean, this is my life. I'm a person of faith. I'm a family guy. You know, I love, I love talking about that. I love, I love sharing with people my daily practices, how I, you know, we pray before our call, like I love my people and I treat them like I would, you know, my closest family and friends and and and it's just this beautiful thing that has exploded into a community that takes care of itself and each other. And, you know, I think that we've done a beautiful job of bringing a new ethical framework to the business of wholesaling. And yeah, are have I had a couple of knuckleheads come in come in and out? Of course, you know, there'll always be a knucklehead here or there who doesn't follow the program and then goes off and does some weird stuff. But, you know, for the most part, I've had over 4500 students in my community. And I can say that, you know, we've done a beautiful job and and the people that come and are part of that group are like some of my best friends. Yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting the the the entertainment side and the educational side, you know, because because because if you can mix those two up in just the perfect balance, it's just fire because people love the the meme world and the the I mean, there's guys in the real estate space. I mean, there's a lot of them who do really incredible on the entertainment side, like they're following. There's several of them, but they can't quite figure out the business side, right? And how to like connect the two. And then there's guys like myself, you know, more more like just value, value, value. Like when I'm on stage, I'm telling jokes the whole time, but like people don't see that in my content. So people when they see me on stage are like, oh my god, this is a new side of you I've never seen before. And I'm like, yeah. But um, you know, that to find that perfect balance between the entertainment, the humorous content and mixing it just perfectly into the educational side of what we're doing on the business business in the people that have that locked in just crush. So no, I love what you do, man. I love what you do. I like your story. You know, what you've done up to this point. I love the fact that you're trying to bring like an ethics side to wholesaling, more of a mainstream like, okay, this is what it is. Like this is what you think it is, but this is what it really is. And you know, like when we did the challenge with Ryan, the whole thing was to real estate agents to say, Hey, listen, right now you're just helping buyers and sellers by listing properties, but you could be offering them, you could be saying, Hey, I'll take this off your hands. You know, like I'll pay you cash right now this much, or I can, you know, buy this much to fix and flip or I can do, we can listen for this. What do you want to do? And you're giving them options. You know, it's like, Hey, how quick do you need to sell this? What do you want to do? Let me what can I do to help you? I don't care if you take my offer for 50,000 less cash or if you list it for a retail value. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just here to help you do what you want to do. Right. And really at the end of the day, that that's really what the fiduciary duty is in my mind. So who doesn't do for for what you're doing in the space. Thank you, brother. Thank you. And to anybody watching this, you know, obviously, you love Ricky and you he wouldn't bring me on this if there if if I wasn't wouldn't be somebody that would be able to add value to you. So if you ever need that cash buyer, if you ever want to level up in that and say, Hey, how do I do this? Then I don't maybe I don't have the 700 $800,000 in cash to buy this. But who does? Well, I would love to be a cash buyer for you. Okay, so if you ever, you know, and I'm and I'm in most markets in the United States. So wherever you are watching this from, if you want to reach out to me, I'm happy to give you a buy price, which is what my company will offer you when you reach out, you let us know the condition. I don't buy retail ready houses. I don't buy a beautiful home. So I can't take that listing off your hands. But if there's if it needs work, if there's deferred maintenance, or if it's situationally complex, I can help. And where do they go? How do they contact you? My favorite place is probably Instagram. You know, I'm active in the DMs. So just at JDAMG at JDAMGI. And if you want to learn more, you can always check my YouTube out. It's a lot of fun. I enjoy the content that I put out there. You know, you get to see my humorous side. And, you know, it's a great way for me to connect and share what my gift is. And that's being able to understand potential. I think that's why I'm here. And my purpose is truly helping people out of survival. I mean, Ricky, you were eating out of people's fridges, sleeping on couches. I had a similar situation, not as bad, but we were really rough. It was really rough for our whole family. And I can say that when you come from situations like that, when you come from nothing, and then you've been able to create something really big, you understand the difference between living in survival and being a creator and living it where you can thrive in life, right? And you're thriving. And the people that you, the ones who come up to you, you go to a town and 500 people come out to see you, they take time out of their day to come and see you because you changed their life, bro, because you took them from survival and you put them into a place of thriving where they could create their reality. That's a God-given purpose, bro. And the reason why people love you and why they come out and drose to see you is because you've changed their whole situation. You freed them from shackles, man. You were the person who came and popped the gate. And I do the same thing for so many as well. And so I love to connect with folks like you. And I commend you for everything that you've been doing because it's really important, man. People need to have financial stability so that they can think about better and different things so that you can love your kids more so that you can enjoy this planet more so that you can recycle. I don't know, whatever. Just do find something you love and do that instead of going to a job that you hate all day long. My gosh, eight hours of your day you spend giving to somebody that you don't like. Yeah. Yeah, but it's not easy though, right? It's not easy to go out and be an agent, to be a wholesaleer, to go out and basically create your own destiny and build your own universe. And a lot of people, I hate to say it, they don't want it bad enough to go through the beginning stages of hell to get to that really incredible place. And so I guess for anybody listening, if you just really understand that that beginning stage of hell is super temporary. If you can just really hang in there long enough, you will get to the other side. And now it seems like a long time before you get to where it starts getting better, but it will come if you don't give up. Man, I appreciate you coming on, man. Enjoy spending some time with me. Appreciate you back, Ricky. And, you know, bless everybody that's watching and thank you for tuning in. And, you know, happy to connect with any of you. Cool, man. We appreciate it. And we'll do this again really soon. Absolutely.