 Thank you Welcome to the public hearing on s169 can folks hear me. Okay, great. Thank you Closer Great, okay. I hope this is better. Great. So welcome I'm represented Maxine grad of more town and I chair the house judiciary committee and I'm joined here by most of my committee members and Also by staff when I thank you for coming tonight I want to set some ground rules for the chamber for this hearing when I remind folks that this is not a play or a Spectators work, but it is a hearing So the ground rules are there are no signs. No banners. No props No outputs. No applause. I Asked that you refrain from displays of preference while people are speaking or at any time Each witness has two minutes and I will ask you to stop when your two minutes are up The I'm going with the lights. Yeah, but so the yellow light means that you have three seconds left I ask that everyone in the chamber is respectful and And if folks choose not to follow the rules, I will stop the hearing and I will wait and Unfortunately, that will probably people who agree with you from testify and We will stop at seven as posted and We're going to put the point To see who goes first. I'm going to ask my vice chair. I'm going to defer it That's what the pro s169 and tails will be against The first name that I call come and sit in the chair The other two names you can either sit in one of the chairs over on the side or on the sofa After the first person testifies I will be calling the one name at a time and Come down to the front here and just take a seat And we're going to start With Richard D and Alyssa black My son's name is December 6th. He took his own life with a handgun that he purchased from start to finish in 130 minutes The background check was run at 11 1126 that's almost less time than it takes to go through the drive through at a fast food restaurant Andrew purchased a firearm in 30 minutes and used to take his own life four hours later He was found 15 feet away from three firearms that were locked out There was absolutely no signs of Andrew had thoughts of Himself we had the text messages of the last 36 to 40 hours of Andrew's life analyzed And learn that Andrew had an acute adjustment reaction again. That's an acute adjustment reaction minutes before Andrew took his life He sent a text message that said I did something today that I shouldn't have done but it's too late now It was too late for Andrew at 1126 when he walked out of the gun shop with a firearm He had just purchased he said so himself I did something today that I shouldn't have done but it's too late Andrew needed a little more time a short waiting period would have given in that time So I urge you to give the next Andrew black a little bit of time They need to wake up the next day and say what was I thinking? I can't tell you how many but I can't tell you This law will save lives. I Respectfully ask that you move this bill forward and give the next person in the middle of a acute adjustment reaction The little bit of time they need the time that will make the difference between life and death Next to testifies Richard Lee and could Emma Ballard come down to the front Want to thank you for allowing me to address this infringement on our rights in a conversation with mr. Ruth a year ago in Montpelio Regarding violating gun rights for honors. I asked why he refused to respond to the many emails He responded. I don't care how many emails you send you will never change my mind I do not care what side of the aisle you represent It is important that you don't infringe on the rights of lawful people to support a bottom paid for agenda That is why you take enough Money received to promote an agenda and emotions should never be the driving factors for passing laws I really want to thank those of you that take your oath seriously brushing partisanship aside and Continually fighting to preserve our rights. You are truly appreciated. I don't know if anyone more concerned with violence And the gun owners in the state of Vermont What are the true causes of gun violence that have come to bear after a record of safety for over 200 years? We have a crisis with drugs being served up in our schools in our streets We know for fact that these drugs cosmetic issues. We are all concerned many of us took a course about suicide Prevention and learn that unless you are in the right place at the right time There is nothing that can be done to prevent it Will you really try to convince me if one method of suicide is taken away another won't be used No one here is capable of playing God Who knows the number of deaths from drug overdoses that are suicides? Can you answer that honestly? Mr. Baruth thinks this law will prevent suicides facts prove him wrong It is common sense to honor your oath and vote no to this law and any laws that infringe on our Thank you All the assumptions about suicide They may even get up here and offer their fainthe empathy and it was all their relatives and their friends Possibly challenged their absolute belief that any gun law is an infringement They'll speak about how safe for mom is and in the same graph how they need instantaneous access to firearms to protect themselves and their families Protect themselves from what I? Can assure you the danger is not out there? statistically inside It's the son Bad break up or fail the class It's your favorite uncle lost a job. It's your best friend whose wife just left it I only ask that you listen to facts real research and truth My husband and I made a conscious decision to open up our lives for all the world to see and we've been subjected to disgusting insults horrible accusations and Even veiled threats from people who haven't the foggiest idea of who we are or who Andrew Black was We aren't doing this for Andrew Andrews dead Andrew made a Impulsive decision and our family has to live with that for the rest of our lives We're doing this because we know that if this law is passed There are families that will come home from work to an intact life And they'll never realize how parents perilously close they came to standing outside in the freezing cold At the bottom of their street while the police man says to them You need to prepare yourself. We found a deceased male in an upstairs bedroom And they're beautiful intact life Crumbles in an instant That's what we're doing this for we know it will make a difference Thank you Can we have Daniel Longer come down and next to testify will be Marie Liova A gun in the hand is worth more than the entire police force on the phone If a man has to wait 24 hours to commit suicide by gun He very well may decide to use his car and take out five Howard students instead That's five innocent lies versus his one He may decide to hang himself in his home for his family to find or he may leave his car or truck running in the garage He may jump off of a building or commit her a carry Any one of these options are not necessarily in in my opinion But suicide is a symptom of an illness as is the problem with every school shooter That has killed in gun-free zones those people were cowards with even bigger issues 24 hours accomplishes nothing except make a law abiding citizen who pays taxes and Votes and truck to travel to and fro two times to his destination to accomplishes one goal To purchase a handgun The only one winning here is the anti-self defense mindset that guns are the problem not the people This is an untrue allegation Without regard for the woman in need of defense. I was once that woman a single mother A criminal says I don't buy guns at stores and I don't care about your stupid gun laws Background checks won't stop me. Keep focusing on the good people. That's exactly what I want My name is Emma Bauer. I am 19-year-old resident of Strafford Vermont first-year student at UVM and the director of Vermont Youth for Gunsense Student gun violence prevention organization here in Vermont I'm here as a representative of these students to express my support for a strong bill that mandates a waiting period of at least 72 hours for all gun purchases. Thank you for providing me and other students with an opportunity to speak There are multiple ways in which gun violence harms children in Vermont and more must be done to make sure that children are Protected from this public health epidemic First Vermont has the highest rate of youth suicide in new in New England We must address the presence of firearms in relation to youth suicide an adequate waiting period requirement is beneficial For it provides a young Vermont or qualified to purchase a gun with a cooling off period to reconsider what is often an impulse decision We strongly support a lengthening of the waiting period to 72 hours to strengthen its effects Additionally, we strongly support expanding the waiting period to all gun purchases as a report from BPR demonstrated that approximately one third of deaths by suicide using a firearm between 2011 and 2017 in Vermont Involved long guns both shotguns and rifles Lastly, it must be said that the risk of suicide for Vermont's youth is increased by the presence of firearms in the household That have not been properly stored and are still accessible to the children in the house Second domestic violence is present in many of Vermont households Which impacts both the partners of perpetrators of domestic violence as well as any children that may be present in the household We support waiting periods as an effective method of preventing fatalities as adult and child victims of domestic violence leave an abusive situation For it is in those critical days that the majority of domestic violence homicides take place For these reasons we strongly support an adequate waiting period for all firearm purchases And we hope that the house will pursue these other measures that will put the safety of Vermont's youth first. Thank you Can Justin, you will come down and next to testify is Daniel Munger My name is Dr. Daniel Munger and I live with my wife Kathleen in New Haven, Vermont Approximately 14 months ago stumbling back those high school shootings provided the impetus for the anti-gun debate to start the 2018 legislative session off in crisis mode Robin Daniel said it best with his Alinsky I quote the number of serious crisis go to waste With that bill 55, the argument last year was that the draconian measures Will help keep us all safe in the lives of Jack Sawyer This was Governor Phil Scott's catholic justification to reverse his long-time promise to protect the long gun rights But this legislation was ineffective and why because today Jack Sawyer can still come and go as he pleases Last year's service involved around Michael Bloomberg Senator Sears Bill S221 and Representative Maxine Grads Bill H-422 The obvious resolution Domestic violence bills Remember when seconds matter the police are minutes away But instead the crime is to confiscate fireworks without new process So today's service revolves around the imposition a 24-hour waiting period to purchase a handgun The present premise is that this restriction will save more lives from suicide They would be lost if an ex-husband or lover were able to follow through unless it kills a strange wife All while she waits 24 hours to obtain a fire for protection Every life is sacred and the life of one with violence is equal to the life of one who is contemplating suicide And lastly, may I suggest that and I know everyone in this room would agree That there be a pretty representative format that the former lawmaker can take their seat in Congress Each of us passed the mandatory college portion of logic Now I can come down and take a seat And next to testify is Grace Wilder I'm a sophomore at UVM and I originally come from Newtown, Connecticut My town was devastated by gun violence in 2012 when a man opened fire in Sandy Hook Elementary School I'm affected by this to this day and will carry that grief with me for the rest of my life Too many times life has been taken by a gun, where precautionary measures were not implemented, and too many times as a parent, sibling, relative, friend, and community member Had to grieve the life that was taken I, as a youth and patron of gun violence, am asking for public policy to reflect the dangerous epidemic of all types of gun violence Vermont Youth Suicide is among the highest in the country It is imperative that we recognize that 24 hours is not enough time between a background check and having a gun Adding an additional 24 hours to what already is being offered could save a life of a youth, contemplating, inflicting harm on himself or on others In a state like Vermont, who prides themselves on the safety of their residents, having all guns covered in a law that speaks to suicide prevention is imperative The world the youth want to see is one where lawmakers are courageous and care about the issue of waiting periods So that we can feel safer in our everyday lives, and we no longer have to grieve people lost by gun violence Thank you Next, can Wagner Bay and William Junior come down and testify is Justin Lindholm I'm Justin Lindholm from Mendon, Vermont, and I have a little bit of expertise here I actually watched as a person killed himself with a firearm from here to that podium right there I also have been in the sporting goods business where I had bought and sold guns for many, many years before I retired And I also carry a suicide hotline number of my own because I have bouts of depression every two or four weeks for one minute at a time Now what I would like to see would be if somebody comes to trade a gun at a gun shop He should be allowed to leave with that gun on the spot I feel it can easily tell whether a gun is capable of firing or not is being traded as he knows the one that he's selling also can be And also if a person was just to bring in his personal firearm and just to show the gun dealer I already have one May I leave with that gun now? That should be allowed These things are very common sense and they're very important I think one of our big problems we have in this state is bullying in schools Rutland Herald had a horrible article on it last week I was bullied as a kid a lot in Vermont school systems When I left the Vermont school systems to go to another state there was no bullying We need to learn how to do that in Vermont, we've never learned that That will stop some suicides when it did Also our laws on defense of people who really are horrible people I had to hold off a person two years ago with my personal firearm He had already been convicted of 14 felonies in the state of Vermont And he was only a little over 50 years old I have to defend myself against him as he came at me three times with a club That should never be allowed that a person would be walking the streets After 15 felonies and evictions, which is where is that right now? Thank you Next come down, take a seat, Bob, will you sit? And testifying is Mel Martin My name is Mel Martin, I'm the second generation of modern, born and raised in Springfield I grew up around guns, my father and two uncles were police officers I've been a police chief for 31 years I had it as a teenager and into my late 20s And until four years ago it was a gun dollar I'm here to urge you to support a minimum of 72-hour waiting period for all gun sales As lawmakers, it is you who have the responsibility to pass a meaningful public health policy And a 72-hour waiting period in all gun sales clearly meets that standard The argument that waiting periods impede self-defense is baseless and illogical If I or anyone felt seriously threatened by another person The idea of buying a gun for protection is contrary to common sense And only increases the chance of gun violence, called for police Consider safe storage, consider this A 32-caliber rifle was stolen from my home in 2010 It was not secured, it was never recovered There's no logic or basis for excluding long guns from waiting periods Long guns are consistently used in suicides I have never ever admitted falling to anyone, including my wife Once during a personal crisis, as a much younger adult I felt so helpless that I wanted to end my life It was going to be with a shotgun Unlike so many, I'm here to talk about it Robert Atkinson, come down and take a seat Next to testify is Martin Van Buren, Jr. Hi, my name is Martin Van Buren, Jr. And I'm the owner-manager of Mark Sportywoods & Co I am here to testify against the firearm waiting period of S169 And in support of the section of the bill that released restrictions On the Fire and Magazine possession of yours I have owned and run my business for 40 years I am an FFL Federal License Gun Deal I've bought and sold firearms for the entire time I've had my business Any person purchasing a firearm through an FFL like my business Will both increase sale and settle next background check A person who is prohibited from possessing a firearm But for a law will be denied I'm opposed to the waiting period For I do not believe it will prevent the use of a firearm or the use And a person taking their own life or committing a crime A person who is so committed to taking their own life That they would consider using a firearm Will simply find other means In fact, the purposes of this bill were to prevent suicides More attention would be directed to that purpose And there should be no waiting period for a person If the FFL in a documented history of previous firearm sales I have on record for decades back A Federal Form 4473 who acquired an old sales to citizen A person who could take their own life Convicted elements, violent criminals A clarify arms through illegal means Or by having someone with a clean criminal record Make a purchase of an FFL for them FFLs are not required to make a sale If they believe if there is anything amiss Or the person seeking to purchase that firearm The FBI stats prove that Vermont is continuously one of The very lowest violent crime rate in the states And the nation The 2017 FBI crime stats The latest available show that once again Vermont has the second lowest violent crime rate in the nation The name is lowest and the answer is third lowest in the country VATF data shows that Vermont is not a major source Of guns for the states Thanks for our excellent firearms training And Vermont's efficient wildlife hunter education program Our state has a high safety record For firearm ownership And I am a firearms instructor And then for many years The action of a few should not be punished by all I say that the action of a few should not punish all of us And Iris, I think it's slammed Come down and take a seat And next to testify is Bob Williamson It's reasonable for Monterey to agree We need a waiting period for buying a gun I applaud the Senate for its vote on S-169 And send their seers for brokering compromise That said, I strongly believe the bill would provide More vital protection from suicide If it required safe storage Included all firearms In a 72-hour waiting period Keep it marred on March the 19th The New Hampshire House passed a 7-day waiting period This is personal I grew up with guns I had an old action .22 rifle And loved target shooting My dad had a semi-automatic .22 rifle And a .38 pistol And my brother was a collector 52 years ago My uncle took his life with a handgun His death left a wound in our family My cousin Nick first learned of his father's death When the news reporter called him To ask for a statement Imagine the shot when your cousin fell With that call Alissa and Rob Black lost their beloved son Andrew last December to firearm suicide All the guns in the Black House Old were locked out So Andrew needed to buy the firearm He used to take his life Experts say that the act of carrying out a suicide Is most often an impulsive decision If you can delay that action Impose real impediments Like a waiting period and secure firearms in home You have a real chance to help deeply depressed individuals Consider these facts 420 Vermonters died from firearms Between 2011 and 2016 And 89% were suicides 85% of suicide attempts with guns are fatal Vermont's suicide death rate is 35% higher Than the national average And guns are used 59% at a time Of the 433 firearm suicides in Vermont From 2011 to 2017 153 were carried out with a long gun Clearly a waiting period should include all firearms Please report the strong S16-9 And a real safe life Thank you Okay, next can Marshall Thompson come down And next to testify is Robert Atkinson Good afternoon I am Bob Atkinson for Laws the Lock The proposed thrust of this legislation Is preventing suicide That appears to be untrue His young man's loss was blamed on impulse If the difficulty was in inexplicable impulse Why didn't he have a 36-hour timeline? Why were the firearms in the house locked up So he did not have access to them? Something was going on previously Nothing in this bill would have altered the end result This legislation is not really about suicide prevention But about gun control If the Vermont legislators Most of them would have come in So wanted to stem the horror of suicide There would not have been 5,237 patient days In 2017 spent in our state's emergency rooms By the Montes with mental health problems Because there were no meds available In mental health facilities Why don't you fix that? No one mentions how many suicides Are the result of psychiatric drugs Just watch TV commercials to see how many Missed suicide is a side effect In the U.S. 80,233,280 Americans Are taking psychiatric drugs for depression ADHD, psychotic episodes and anxiety The best explanation for drug side effects Came from a neurologist Drugs play with connections in the brain And we can never be sure of the effects Because everyone's brain is not the same These drugs have been largely developed Since Prozac was released in 1987 Based on CDC data Suicide rate per 100,000 was 27.6% From 1999 through 2016 Could these drugs have had an effect On this rate increase? Are the pharmaceutical companies studying this? Though they're lobbyists Who spent almost half a million dollars In Vermont in 2018 To learn our legislators about these drugs If the desired end to one's life Is not medically insisted And must face the real problem What I realize is so wrong Is they want to give up and die There's a short seven and a half minute video From morning in Vermont Inside a suicide and gun control in Vermont That can be found on the Vermont Federation of Sports and Clubs website It is outstanding and includes Suicide prevention tips and links Anyone with an open mind To invest a few moments to view it Children make decisions based on emotion Adults make decisions on verifiable Facts and reasons Please don't let your emotions cloud The decisions affecting our freedom Thank you Ananima, come down and take a seat And next to testify is Iris Slam My name is Iris Slam And I'm a freshman at Essex High School I'm here to testify in support of S169 and I'd like to thank you For the opportunity to do so Children in this state In this country are afraid We huddle in the corners of dark rooms Because we're afraid We lock the doors and sit silently Because we're afraid Because there's a possibility That it won't go to school one day And we won't come home The fear that our friends and family Will not come home is a real one We're trained to react to school shootings Like beauty fires As if they're in inevitable danger But it doesn't have to be this way Those who own guns may have the right To their arms But you have the right to regulate them And I urge you to I urge you to keep your community safe And I am By enacting S169 Because my generation has the right To To school To go to school I'm afraid We have the right to live We have the right to have a bill That not only regulates handguns But all of their guns as well A bill that gives a three-day waiting period In order to ensure safety Children and teens with bright futures Are dying And inaction on this matter Is unacceptable Waiting periods Are going to save lives And they should be the first steps Towards securing our community's safety They are not a restriction on gun use But rather a barrier between people Who are desperate to hurt others or themselves And their means to do so Last year I organized The enough national school walk out of my school Because there had been enough deaths Due to gun violence And inaction continued The more innocent community members And children died Waiting periods need to be enforced To ensure that impulsive actions aren't taken Inaction in this legislation Is going to save lives And hopefully this body will bring more legislation That will protect me and my peers From the gun violence That we've been raised in fear of Please help my generation Give us the small steps towards keeping us safe Please free us of the fear of gun violence That we live with Help us by passing S169 And please continue to save lives By enacting gun control Thank you Bert, so I'll be coming down And next to testify is Marcia Thompson First let me introduce myself I'm a graduate of Norwich And a 39 year retired veteran Of the United States Army As a career instructor I was a marksmanship instructor For the last 10 years I was there I'm an NRA certified instructor In four disciplines A competitive NRA shooter And founder of the Vermont Woman's Shooting Association This association was created Because it came apparent That there was a great need for women Wanting training to learn about guns From all points of view We've only been around for a couple years And last fall at our clinics Which we can only take 16 to the time For safety reasons We were getting 800 and a thousand hits From women wanting to come to these clinics On our Facebook page Women who wanted to learn about guns In a safe supportive environment It's women training women There are women involved in the background Because there aren't enough women That have the expertise But it's women training women Gun violence is heavily intertwined With the issue of domestic violence At least 52% of America women Killed with guns are killed By intimate partners Instead of developing more laws It seems that the ones on the books Should be enforced Such as the Lautenberg amendment Which prohibits possession Of firearms and ammunition For anyone convicted Under a misdemeanor Of domestic violence 41 states do not enforce This federal law 35 states these people can still Buy guns And what about the ones That they all possess That weren't taken away from them A natural starting point For prevention of gun violence Is to identify individuals Who at risk for violence And need of assistance Many policies and practice Intended to reduce harms Lack evidence of efficiency And may contribute to The unintended cause of questions A way of cooling off period Could have turned into Be exactly the opposite of that And a heating up period In the domestic violence case Regular scientific research Must be done to support Any new laws We'll never resolve the issues Till we all commit to Paying special attention To what's to be done And use scientific evidence To make new laws So support the right for women To defend themselves Thomas E. Y. Come down Take a seat And next to testify Is Anna Nemick Hi, my name is Anna Nemick From Burlington Thank you for this hearing I speak in support Of S169 Weekly I advocate And family court For plaintiffs Who are showing great courage In seeking final relief From these orders They often are very Concerned about guns To which the defendant Has access They want the guns gone And they're even concerned About access Through family members Guns have often been used To finally control them Often the plaintiffs Have been prevented From learning how to use Gun And learning how to prevent A gun from being used Against them Are they those That turn to guns For protection instead Of the courts I'm sure there are And they have the right To do so But week after week Folks who come To Jinton County Court Are not asking For court access To guns Inspire the fact That this is a dangerous Time for them Guns for them represent Their own closure Another part I am a promoter Doesn't matter How long I've lived here But a time for trying To include people to calm All points of view Are needed They should be supported Our collective values As diverse as they might be Our Vermont values And as we go along And grow as a state Then we will have different Views And we've got to learn How to agree And disagree And we will experience Change Through discussing Our different views New and better solutions Will emerge John Jaffee Come on down And Bert Saw me To testify next Bert Saw me Better than I am These proposed R-R-M R-R-M legislation Right now Future days And years Will not stop A person or persons From Being involved In a crime Unlawful act Nor will it stop People From doing harm Or death To themselves Or others Period Trying to pass Unenforceable And unaffected Laws That only affect Law-abiding citizens I'm not Looking at the real problem This is the same These are some of the things That legislation Should be working on Such as Abuse Child abuse Substance abuse And incremental help I do not support Any new Fireman legislation Didn't you Legislators Packed enough last year With the S-55 To hire The community The Fireman community Thank you Richard Smiles Come down And Thomas Eli To testify My name is Thomas Ely I reside in Burlington And currently serve As Bishop Of the Episcopal Church in Vermont I'm also A member of Bishops United Against gun violence A network of Over 80 Episcopal Bishops Working as People of faith To curtail The epidemic Of gun violence In the United States Our group Offers Small contributions Public Health Sound teaching And advocacy For common sense Gun safety measures It's in reference To that fourth Contribution That I testified Today In measured support Of S-169 The work around Gun safety And anti-violence That the General Assembly did last year And the work In which you Are engaged this year Is vital Public health And safety work And I thank you For that Today I ask You to continue And deepen Your commitment To S-169 To establish A 72-hour Waiting period Time provision For the purchase Of any And all guns Not only handguns I know that Not everyone In purchases A gun intends To do violence To themselves Or others But sadly Some do Strengthening The provisions Of S-169 To include A 72-hour Waiting period On all gun Purchases Might slightly Inconvenience Must take the life Of someone You or I Know And love Once a gun Any kind of gun That can use To anyone's Lungs Inflict injury Or take the Life of another There is no Waiting time Left to offer Only regret And mourning time The waiting time Needs to come While there Is still a chance To prevent The violence Time to reconsider Time for someone To get help Time for To prevail Time for A thorough Backdown check Time That can make All the difference It is About time In more Ways than one Thank you Edward Gilbert Jr. Come down And John Chaffee To testify My name is John Chaffee I am Black Dot Guns and Shoots I've been A gun shop owner For about Three years I started My house And built My business And retail Establishment We are required To run Federal background checks As gun shop owners too People come to my shop Some of them Travel over An hour To purchase firearms From me Because they like My selection They might Live in a very World town And they might Not have A local shop So they drive On the weekends And they come To visit me And they Like to Purchase firearms And they Take their home with them They might not Come to my shop They might not Purchase from me They might go To an online sale And maybe there's Somebody that sells out Of their house Close to them And I lose that sale All firearms Whether they're bought On mine Or bought At a shop After you go Through a background check They have to be shipped To a dealer To go through That background check You know There's a lot of People in this Area That enjoy firearms And You come in And you fill out the form You get approved Versus a background check Or a Or a Financial document And you can take The firearm Or the vehicle Home With you Now if you Had to Drive to a dealership To purchase a Vehicle Fill out All that paper Where it gets Approved You know You can't take it home Till tomorrow Probably not Going by that Vehicle Thank you Next Bernard Carter Come round And Richard Smiles To testify Thank you for the Opportunity To address you This evening I am a retired Public school teacher And principal My wife Is a retired Public school teacher We have been Vermonters Since 1993 We truly Love this State We have The grandparents Of two young girls Along with Their parents Residing Vermont Our granddaughters Will both attend Public school In the fall We urge you To consider To enact Continue Excuse me To enact Reasonable gun legislation That will help To make Our state A safer place A waiting Period Such as In Senate Bill 169 Just makes An abundance of Sense From multiple Perspectives One Needs only To reflect On the recent Suicide of Mr. Black In Essex To understand The need For this legislation Such legislation Is especially Important in states Like Vermont That have Higher than average Rates of suicide Especially among Adolescents And the Elderly Crimes of Passion Such as Homicide Could be reduced With legislation That requires A person Reasonable gun owners Understand this And Any inconvenience That a gun Purchases Experiences As a result Of a Wait Period Is just that An inconvenience You and Governor Scott Took impressive action Last year Life in Vermont Has continued It is time For you to Act again In a reasonable manner And pass Additional Information Please do this For our Grandchildren And the Next generation Vermont Thank you Ian Goward Come down And Edward Gilbert Jr. To test Apart Ladies and gentlemen Thank you For the Opportunity To speak My name Is Edward Gilbert Jr. I'm Made of Vermont From Vermont Down in Boston These waiting periods Are just To feel good Legislation When someone Wants to End their life As tragic As it is These waiting periods Do not work Observed Internationally It's In my heart Goes out To Mr. And Mrs. Black I have a son Who's 25 Who's now Serving in The U.S. At the University of Southern Maine All three I've brought them up responsibly On how to handle, Maintain And protect themselves If they ever need it I do not feel That this legislation Or these waiting periods Are going to be effective here in Vermont Vermont is one of the safest states in the country Due to the fact That we have a population That is brought up and raised On how to respect Not only authority But they're trained properly On how to use And maintain Any firearm The statistics Are very low I come back to my state And it's one of the most drug-infested states As drug-infested in any community I've ever served in a metro area Out in California I would like to see more legislation Dealing with Helping these people Recover from these addictions I've lived in several states I just feel This state is safe Because they are brought up at a young age On how to Conduct themselves As responsible adults Thank you very much Steven, I think it says Reynolds Come down And Renata Carver To testify Good evening I'm the proud grandfather Of my grandchildren And my wife and I In the South Dakota I'm here to advocate tonight For the measure before you Because I want to represent Two underrepresented groups In our political system Children in the late bill Science tells us that Brains aren't fully developed To the age of approximately 25 So it's no coincidence That gun violence Is a death for teenagers And young adults Who amongst us Did not experience Teenage angst I know I did When I was a young man I worked in a mental hospital In a locked ward For almost three years One of my jobs Was to answer The suicide prevention film People do not necessarily Act impulsively If they're contemplating Suicide And we talked about it One of the things I learned from my experience Mental illness Is a very cyclical Kind of illness People often Get into a very dark place That they experience trauma Of some kind in their life Or miss a medication They come back from that Very quickly They have some time To do so As little as 24 hours Sometimes but usually more Science also tells us that One in five person Experienced some form Of mental illness Each year So living in Vermont Is wonderful it is It's not a guarantee Against mental illness That happens here Every time Before you act on this As to this legislation I ask that you consider Following question What kind of people are we If we don't do Whatever we can Just toward our children And mentally ill This measure will be A minor inconvenience To some people All certainly Safe lives Do you want to come down And Ian Galbraith To testify Thank you It's interesting that the current bill Asks for a 24 hour waiting period And already we have people asking For 72 hours claiming It's just an inconvenience How long is it going to be Before people are coming Before this party And the senate Judiciary committee Asking for five days Seven days Ten days Because somebody died After four or five Six days Getting a gun There's no provision For example gun shows In this Now there's only about Half a dozen gun shows In the state In the whole year I think it's highly unlikely That people are going to Wait for a gun show Or occur and then Possibly go in And buy a gun And shoot themselves Or anyone else for that matter I'm also very curious As to why the couple That brought this before The senate testified that And this was in both The free press and CX news That they were willing to Evolve or trigger Their son's suicide Nobody seems to have asked them What that trigger was I think knowing that And trying to go Ahead of a lot of filer Then telling people How to prevent someone from Killing themselves Then the 24 or whatever Our waiting period Of getting a gun Thank you David Hamilton Come down And Stephen Reines To testify Chairperson grad And distinguished members Of the House Judiciary Committee I am Stephen Reines of Calis I'm an attorney Dr. Dane Deacon In the Episcopal Church In the 1980s I served three terms In the House Then as a member Of the other body I was the lead sponsor Of S-98 Which proposed a ten-day Waiting period To purchase a handgun Although S-98 Had eight Bipartist co-sponsors And was strongly endorsed By the Vermont Chief of Police Association The committee to which it Was referred did not hold Any hearing. I commend your committee For taking up this issue. I've read the news reports And listened to a video Excerpt of the testimony Of Alyssa and Rob Black Who I heard for the first Time tonight The parents of 23-year-old Andrew Black. I've seen the published Photo of Andrew at work On December 3, 2018 Looking relaxed and content. Three days later He bought a gun At 11.30 And at four o'clock He was dead. Andrew's photo to me Is compelling evidence That we should have A waiting period In the line. A human experience teaches That the world can look Very different A few days later. Andrew's parents Had good grounds For their belief That Andrew would be alive If a waiting period Had been in effect. Having to wait A few days To get a gun Cails in significance To the loss of Andrew And so many others. I see this as a moral issue. S-169 would create a huge Exemption from the background Check and waiting period Requirements with the most Expansive definition Of immediate family I've ever heard of. And just because a person Is somehow related Is no guarantee That a waiting period Is of no value. A constitutional right Does not mean it is immune From reasonable regulation For protection of society. Ed Wilson come down And Duane Tucker The testifier. Good evening everyone. My name is Duane Tucker. I stand here before you On behalf of myself In the people of Washington County, Vermont. Again, Vermont legislature Has proven its limited Ability to reason. We see how easily our leaders Are able to push a completely Unnecessary agenda with a bill As a matter of fact Is as far from necessary As one could possibly fathom. S-169 introduced and passed By Vermont state legislatures A complete waste of time, Energy, and tax payers' dollars. Law-abiding citizens And young, well-rounded adults Who have been brought up On moral and principal values Are people who know The difference between right and wrong Should not have laws and policies That violate our constitutional rights. The real concern that Vermont Legislation needs to be focused on Is developmental and psychological disorders And mental health treatment. I'm asking you to redirect Your attention, energy, and focus On possible early intervention Programs and treatment For the individuals that need Psychological help. Create the resources And make them readily available For the individuals that need them. Introducing nonsense bills Into legislation and infringing On the constitutional rights Of law-abiding citizens Is not the right answer. I ask you to listen to logic, Conduct the studies, Use statistical information, And put forth the right effort To do the right thing. In short, I'm asking you To take into consideration the fact that S169 will only affect the people That follow the law And will ultimately have no effect On helping individuals with Mental health issues. Please do the right thing. Thank you. Julie Aggressor, come down And David Hamilton to testify. I am David Hamilton. I reside in Burlington. I'm an abyssable priest Serving as a parish priest At present, but for many years Also practiced as a licensed Psychotherapist. It is particularly from my experience As a psychotherapist that I wish To address the importance Of a waiting period for the purchase Of doubtless. I have had many occasions when a patient Will experience the transitory grip Of the darkness of depression Which momentarily feels all Encompassing and hopeless. At such a time of anguish There can be a desperate and impulsive Wish for the alleviation of this Deep pain. At such a time, suicidal thoughts And a driving force for relief Can feel all-consuming. It is precisely at this point That we as a society Have a responsibility to not conspire With the forces of darkness. Interrupting the compulsion To purchase a gun by a Statutory waiting period of at least 72 hours Gives the therapeutic relationship And the intervention of family And friends of fighting chance For the depressed person To weather the storm of Decretion and desperation. The world could look very different Inside and outside Several days after such a crisis. As a parish priest Helping people cope with grief Is part and parcel of parish life. The grief over the loss Of a friend or a relative To suicide are among The deepest and most profound Experiences of grief. There is never just one victim Of suicide. Suicide has a deathly ripple effect On family, friends, and the Wider community. All experience a death A death of the spirit When their suicide occurs. A significant waiting period At least 72 hours Interrupt the impulsive drive To the purchase of a gun Is in its whitest scope A public health policy That will benefit all of us. Thank you. Bob, will you come down? Ed Wilson to testify. Ed Wilson, more so. Our legislature is proposing A waiting period for all gun Purchasers in response to one Person out of 40,000 gun Purchasers committing suicide. We are very concerned with human life Except they just passed a bill A law allowing abortions Up until the moment of birth And regardless of how you feel About marijuana, is there anyone Who doubts that more people will die In counter accidents and other means As marijuana is legalized? It is obviously not a Concernful life that drives this Legislature. In this legislature there are people Who just don't like guns and believe They have them and will do everything Possible to make it more difficult To own, buy and use guns. Even though these legislators Took note to uphold and defend The U.S. and Vermont constitutions They are willing to break their Oals to achieve their own agendas. Tonight there will be people Who profess to be hunters And gun owners who will tell us That they see nothing in this law That will hinder their ability to shoot a deer. I want to remind them that The Second Amendment is about shooting Titles, not deer. We are here to protect Our God given right to Self-defense as enumerated In the Second Amendment In Article 16. As this legislature Contemplates ways to make Gun ownership more onerous I urge the legislators To contact your peers In New York and Connecticut And see what the compliance rate Is regarding registering semi-automatic Rifles and other guns and accessories. Ask the state police Its sheriff to look into compliant Rates also. You will find it their law because People will not give up their rights And you do no service to Vermont residents By passing laws that Will make us into criminals. I will not comply With unconstitutional Laws. Thank you. Bad crime come down To testify. My name is Shalia Grocer And I live in Montpelier I'm a mental health psychotherapist. I'm sorry to have to share With you a painful story tonight. Must be very difficult to sit here for two hours And listen to some difficult stories. I've never talked About this publicly And have only shared it with my closest friends But I feel that this is An important piece of legislation For you tonight. When I do talk about When I do Talk about this with close friends I never share the details But a Decision to vote on this bill Can literally save lives And protect countless people from suffering Life long trauma. So these stories must be told And you who have the power To change future stories I hope will listen. Many many years ago On the last summer evening of August The day before school started My friend Bobby who was 17 And his mom had an argument. His older brother My high school sweetheart and I Were in the backyard and could hear them fighting. His 12 year old sister Wendy was in her bedroom Next to his. Bobby hated school And had just gotten a hard time job Doing something that he loved. His mother came home late from work And exhausted and frustrated with him For taking a job when she felt He would need to focus on school. His dad had moved out The year before. It had been a very rough year for the family. But Bobby was not chronically depressed. In fact he generally Had a sunny disposition But that night he was angry Frustrated and discouraged. He went into his sister's room And told her he was leaving. He went off. Getting away from mom, school and home. Not long after he returned to her room And told her he couldn't run away Because he had nowhere to go. We listened from the backyard And thought things were settling down. We decided we needed to go inside. We decided we did not need to go inside And provide mediation. I was 19 years old. My boyfriend Bobby's brother was 20. There were a few minutes Of quiet summer breezes Of gun cocking, followed by Exposure to the gun. Mike Caravano and Rob Greedy To testify. My heartfelt condolences To Andrew's family and friends. And no stranger to suicide I've had to deal with it four times in my life. The most recent January 8th of this year Marine Corps gun sergeant Took his own life. We know why he did it. We had pretty good ideas to why he did it. But we were powerless to stop him. This law will do nothing. Remarkable John Weeks There is an overall address stated A godly rugs As enshrined in the U.S. and Vermont Constitution are not over For negotiations. They cannot legislate it away Nor can they be regulated away. Any organization Government that attempts to do so Will be met with the strongest resistance. Suicide to horrible things. My rugs My rugs And you keep chipping away. Judge Benitez this past Friday Ninth Circuit Court Federal mind you Declared that the magazine ban And capacity ban in California Is unconstitutional I highly recommend you look at Your summation And because from a constitutional And liberty standpoint It is brilliant Brilliant We've got the Second Amendment And we've got Article 16 To those legislators I'm sorry Who honor their oath And abide by the Constitution Thank you We applaud your efforts To those who don't We will not sit down We will not shut up And we will not go quietly Into that cold dark night I am responsible I know You're not going to stop suicide You're trying to apply political Solution to a societal problem You are It's not going to work Thank you Comments come down In that time To testify For what we understand From Westminster West Vermont We've been working mental health On the birthday of Kurt Vonnegut Who said if Jesus was to come down From heaven And be here now He'd be an atheist I wouldn't know if Jesus came down now Would he be Packing a gun Of some sort Or would he ask for people to take time Before they want to kill themselves And I have fingers here Oops Because we were asking for science It only takes 20 seconds To look at the Comparison of the different types Of accessibility To killing yourself Okay, this study Is called lethality Of suicide methods Is to be 20 seconds to find It's case fatality Rates by suicide methods In In eight U.S. states From 1889 to 1997 Okay, I'm sorry I have to put my glasses on quickly You can see on this graph That Successful deaths Caused by firearms is 82.5 percent The next move is drowning 65.9 Suffocating, hating 61.4 Poisoned by gas 41.5 And it goes all the way down to other At about 8 percent And cut and pierced is at 1.2 Okay, so we're at 82.5 percent Is the amount of people that have Successfully managed to kill Themselves with firearms And I think that stands For what's happened here in the State of Vermont We know that death is wrong And we know that firearms Are already at the deaths in this state From causing deaths I have had to work Close to six years In mental health In this state of Vermont And I can say truthfully That there's only been So many people In this society Ed Cutler, come down In my caribou Thank you for having me today I'd like to state that I'm Of the United States Navy I've had numerous businesses In my pair, I currently live in Plainfield and I have three children To me But not to be, that is the question Whether it be no one in the mind To suffer the slings And arrows about ages 14 And take arms against the sea of Troubles, that is the question All of you are elected To uphold the constitutions And respect the values of the This republic Senator Sears said It is all about compromise They They go on 48 We've compromised for 24 No, sir We were compromised When you chose to violate our Second Amendment And Article 16 writes attacking Law-abiding citizens S-55 was an absolute Was an assault on our right To keeping bear arms And S-169 is yet another Fear-good measure unsupported By statistics, especially When one considers the fair The fair-heated incident If you don't believe this Oppression, look at the Consequences that the charges Brought against the new Just opposed to those we have Been subjected to ourselves Our sea of troubles is the Legislation coming from this body One taking of our rights rapidly Followed by another Denounced through committee While you still have a majority Our sea of orange garnets Represent our outfire to stop Pushing law-abiding Punishing law-abiding citizens And remember, this is a republic You swore on oath to protect Not a platform for political Correctness in fear-good Measures Thank you for your time Members, come here in Mary Cox To testify Good evening. My name is Mary Cox I'm from Burlington I'm a member of Nombie, Vermont, but I'm speaking here today As a sister of a brother Who committed suicide Some 19 years ago A mother, but What I want to focus on this evening Since I just had the two minutes Is that I'm also a veteran of the Coast Guard Act of the Reserve 17 years And I wanted to speak to The veterans' issues Involved with this bill I'm Having my brother commit suicide And having experienced that loss It spoke my heart in recent years To see the suicide rates amongst Veterans in the United States Nationally In 2016 20 veterans per day Committed suicide 50% of those veterans' suicide deaths Will by-fire arms It's not just through the United States It's here in Vermont Tragically And I have a Data sheet here from the VA With Vermont specific statistics on it In Vermont, the veteran's suicide rate Is 56.8% Which is higher than the northeast rate Of 39% And the national rate of 30.1% So we're particularly high in this rate And on the suicide rate Amongst veterans in Vermont And in fact when we compare all of the states We're one of the very highest We rank amongst the highest Of suicide rates amongst veterans 9 out of 10 people Who attempt suicide and Successfully do not go on To die by suicide However, the suicide Attempt using a Firearm is over 80% successful So having a reasonable waiting period Makes sense When people are in crisis When veterans are in crisis When people with mental health issues are in crisis Having a reasonable waiting period Where they can get help They can get community support Thank you Thank you Cutler is yielding his position In the line to me Well, I'm going to have to say no And the reason being Is people waited in line It's a first come, first serve Basis And we're going to be pretty strict About sticking with the program That we had planned on doing So either Ed's going to have To come down and testify Or we will go over to a Member Thank you. I already spoke about that. As you know, I spoke to the committees, and I was hoping to get a better one. I should have spoke to the spouse. So I thought it would have been better for her to say her own story. All I can say is, we are trying in this organization to protect women, children, everybody. As you know, we have a little bit of a difference on suicides when people just go out by a firearm and commit suicide instantly. The video I showed you said one, we looked at it and we were very little, and our numbers we had three. The three were the Black's son, the teacher at the Vermont Law School, who waited actually two days after she bought that firearm. And the one who was at the gun shop where he bought a firearm and did that, and that was over 20 years ago. So we're looking at legislation now that will not save anybody and it will hurt other people. People that need to defend themselves against abusers, abusers, against rabbit animals which were on the increase just the other day, two weeks ago, we had a bot cat attack two people in St. Jonesburg. White River. So, you know, rabbit is on the increase. There's a number of other things that are on the increase. We need to keep innocent victims being harmed by abusive parents, abusive husbands, abusive boyfriends. I urge you to the background checks excuse me, the waiting periods out. Leave the Rogersville's in and protect people Vermont. Thank you. Lauren Emerson, come down and Nelson Rodriguez to testify. Thank you. My name is Nelson Rodriguez and I'm a student at Champlain College. I'm also a rest of the provider at the Howard Center and assistant track and field coach I'm here to ask my fellow citizens or the other side of this issue what is wrong with simple regulation? We do the same thing with our first remit, first amendment, free speech. We can't yell fire in movie theater. A well-reliated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. This is an amendment that was ratified in 1791. If you do not take this step forward with this bill, we are taking a step backwards. We need to solve this problem instead of adapting to it. Vermont has an opportunity to be a state that leads in firearm regulations and we need to eliminate the notion that carrying a gun is the American way of solving the problem. If more guns is solution then by definition America would be the safest country in the world. But just last year there were 288 school shootings since 2009. Canada came in second with just two. The American way of solving problem is failing. Our thoughts and prayers are failing. How many more lives needs to be lost in order for us to be in the same side for simple regulation? This bill is not a complete ban of firearms but regulation. Nowhere does it say we are banning all guns. Let's be clear. I do believe that a majority of gun owners are safe and responsible gun owners but we're talking about the access to guns. I'm afraid there are people out there who are not receiving the help that they need and their access to guns is far too easy. Again, my name is Nelson Rodriguez. Thank you for your time. Landon Coley, come down and Paul LaGrand to testify. Ladies and gentlemen, Paul LaGrand I work evenings for missing time and pay to be here today and for every person here in attendance. I believe there are many others who would be but are not able to attend this hearing. After a bitter custody battle and separation, a single mother escaped her physically and emotionally abusive acts to attempt a new start with her two children. Because of the past abuse and threats of violence she was able to obtain and restraining order against him. Frightened and traumatized, she stayed with friends and family members out of concern for her personal and family safety she went to a sporting goods store to purchase a firearm for protection. She was able to pass the background check immediately but was unable to purchase the gun because of a mandated waiting period. That night while alone she received a rash of threatening messages from her ex. He vowed to take the kids and make her pay. Terrified, she called the police. Within minutes her ex kicked down the door screaming and threatening. With no way to protect herself against the larger violent attacker he beat her bloody and unconscious. Soon after the police arrived to find the horrific scene she later died of her injuries at the hospital. The right to keep and bear arms is constitutionally protected and shall not be infringed. According to Google the word in French means to act so as to limit or undermine to encroach on to a road in impair, damage or compromise. Please keep in mind that just because a law is passed does not mean it's constitutionally legal. As was just previously mentioned as an example last Friday March 29th in the case of Duncan V. Becerra California's U.S. Southern District Court ruled the California's ban on commonly possessed firearm magazines in the position of a 10 round magazine limit is in violation of the Second Amendment of the Constitution. Last year's Senate Bill S-55 is similar and also an infringement. I sympathize with you as lawmakers faced with what to do about the tragic events we hear about in the news. I will assume that your concerns are gender and not part of a hidden agenda. Unfortunately passing gun control laws is too easy. The appearance of doing something when you don't know what to do. Thank you very much. Brian Sheldon come down and Lori Emerson to testify. Good evening. My name is Lori Emerson I'm the Executive director of the Vermont chapter of the national alliance on mental illness. Not even not supports built S-169 with an amendment to includes a 72 hour waiting period not just 24 hours and to include all firearms not just handguns. Our concern is in preventing suicides and we measure we can take to save lives as our goal. Suicide is a community health issue that can be prevented. Once again, suicide can be prevented. That's why we are calling on new Islam makers to pass legislation that will address suicide. On average, one person dies by suicide every three days in Vermont. Vermont had 118 suicide deaths in 2017. More than 10 times as many people die by suicide in Vermont annually than by homicide. VPR collected data on firearm suicides in Vermont from 2011 to 2016 and reported that 63% used handguns and 36% used long guns. We need to save all lives to suicide by including all firearms in this legislation. About 85% of people who use a firearm in the suicide attempt die from their injury. However, 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt do not go on to die by suicide. Research also indicates that the interval between deciding to act and attempting suicide can be as short as five or 10 minutes. And people tend not to substitute a different method when a highly lethal method is unavailable or difficult to access. Therefore, increasing the time interval with a waiting period can be lifesaving. According to the CDC report, researchers found that more than half of the people who died by suicide did not have a known diagnosed mental illness at the time of their death. So preventing suicide involves everyone in the community and state. And I hope that we can count on you to develop comprehensive policies and laws to prevent suicide. Thank you for listening to my comments. Bob Richard, come down, Lanny Colby. Testify. Thank you, folks, for allowing me to speak here. I didn't write anything down. I'm not a very good public speaker. But there are a couple of things I really would like to point out to you. First and foremost is the 16th Amendment in the State of Vermont. You have sworn to uphold and protect it. And I think you should take that very seriously. I understand the suicides. Anyone dying from a gun or any other measure is traumatic for the people involved. And I have a granddaughter that actually has tried to commit suicide twice. What I have read, looking into things, is that people who try to attempt suicides usually attempt it two or three times before they're successful. Spread them all the things can happen. Legislation obviously doesn't stop problems. You have drug control problems. You've got laws against it. You've got laws against murdering people. People do it. Those who don't have respect for the law are not going to comply, period. The other thing I'd like to bring to your attention and I can't quote it verbatim, but there is a spot in our Constitution that says you cannot make or enforce a law against one individual or group of individuals for the ambulance and gratification of another group of individuals or individual. This is ambulance gratification for those who are willing to supersede our constitutional rights. That's wrong. In closing, I'd like to just make a single statement. Please stop the assault on our Constitution and the slaughter of our freedoms. Thank you. Constance Kincaid Brown come down and Brian Sheldon to testify. My name is Brian Sheldon. I'm a Vermont native and a resident of Essex. I want to thank Chairman Radd and members of the Judiciary Committee for allowing me this opportunity to speak. My grandfather and my nephew Cody are big hunters. Often when I visit my sister in Texas, my 22-year-old nephew is not around because it's one hunting season together. I'm pleased for that reason that my grandfather's rifles got handed down to my nephew who was able to use them to train properly with them and to treat those rifles with respect. That said, when I heard about Andrew, I identified with him very strongly. I'm a fellow graduate of Essex Junction High School. I'm also an alumni of the Essex Youth Accu Association. It is, I didn't know him personally, but I could also see walking into a gun store, buying a gun and less than a day later, killing myself. Also recently, I was at Lawson's just this week. And I didn't realize this until recently that he worked there. So he could have brewed the beer that I'd had just this week. So I know when you buy a house in Vermont, you're not going to be able to do that in under 24 hours. I don't think having a delay is a big infringement for a gun, especially when we know that it works. I was interested in many of the people testifying today saying that it doesn't work. When I sat back there and googled the results saying that in the states had passed the handgun delays, that violence had gone down by 17% in those states. So I hope that I think that 24 hours is a good start, but 72 hours would be better. Thank you for this opportunity to speak. Jerry Mullen come down and Bob Richard to testify. Bob Richard of Franklin and Waitsville, Vermont, of Abnaki descent. I've lost family members. Everyone here has lost a friend or family member from self-infliction of one way or another. There's always going to be another way. Putting this into legislation isn't going to stop it. If they're determined, it's going to happen. You'll never stop this in sad reality of every civilization in all demographics. Until society changes its desensation of life, which seems to happen more and more from the younger generations of spending too much time killing people on the X box, not enough time with the tattle box. This is no more than another knee-jerk reaction to put legislation, legislative infringements on my culture and everyone's second amendment. Thank you. Kathleen Shepherd come down and Constance Kincaid Brown to testify. My name is Constance Kincaid Brown. Thank you for this opportunity to speak today. I am one of the co-facilitators of the Greater Claremont Survivors of Suicide Law Support Group. Our group was made up primarily of survivors of suicide loss from Sullivan County in New Hampshire and Windsor County in Vermont. You can guess that I'm here to speak on behalf of 169. I am also the survivor of domestic violence. Other folks here today have told you about a lot of statistics and percentages. I know only too well from domestic experience what those statistics and percentages feel like. First, as a survivor of domestic violence, I learned that preemptive strike doesn't work. At best, it gets you labeled as a co-combatant and subject to legal action. At worst, it can make you the murderer of your children's father. During the opening of each of our Suicide Law Support Groups, I introduced myself to role model the process to any newcomers, which we have all too often. My opening goes like this. My name is Connie. I lost my 22-year-old son Duncan August 13th, 2016 to a self-inflicted gunshot wound. It is one of the few places that I can talk about the means. As we go around the room, the ratio changes from night to night, but guns are often the primary means, usually on impulse after some sudden loss. The trauma caused by the sudden loss of the one that died does not end with the one that died. It ricochets through the deceased family, friends, and community, impacting even people who did not know them or even like them. Almost all survivors report experiencing some level of PTSD, even if they're spared, witnessing, or finding the body of their loved one. As a group, we are doing what we can to stem the tide of suicide and mass shootings. We ask you to do what you can. Pete Lottin, come down, and Jerry Mullin to testify. Okay. I'm Jerry Mullin, former selectman from Bolton. I am very opposed to gun violence. As such, I qualified as a hunter safety instructor in 1962. I later, at the request of Jim Cardell, head of the FIZED department of Burlington High, built and taught a firearm safety and marksmanship course at the school. About 40 years ago, I had a young lady in my class who was doing very, very poorly in my freshman science class. Murray had met Mr. Perfect, and she was in love. She dropped out almost as soon as she could, and I didn't see her for a long time. About 10 years later, I ran into her where she was waiting table at the tower of a restaurant in South Burlington. At this point, she had two children, a divorce and a restraining order. It turned out Mr. Perfect was a physical abuser. I used to see her occasionally when Jane and I would stop down at the restaurant, and she got very, very, very concerned because he kept calling her and ranting and raving and threatening. If your time lapse bill here, your bill to have a waiting period had existed, Murray would have died one night, and probably the two children as well. He broke into the house. She had been quite concerned. Just the day before, she had bought a pistol. I guess the lesson is, don't ever bring a baseball bat to a gunfight. I would like to point out also, if you go online and type in police requirement to protect individuals, you will find that there are court cases even up to the Supreme Court which say that police protect society, not you. The last time we had an attempted home invasion at my house in 1907, it took the state police three hours to get there. I think I'm done. Thank you, folks. I would like to say please oppose this bill. Jack Friedman come down to testify. The fives, unfortunately, are considered banners, and at the beginning of the night, it was stated that no banners. Thank you. Kathleen Shepard to testify. I'm sorry. Yeah, Kathleen Shepard to testify. And I call Jack Friedman down to be on deck. I may have screwed up on that, I apologize. Thank you very much for this opportunity to testify in favor of Senate Bill 169. My name is Kathleen Shepard, a resident of Norwich, Vermont for 40 years, a retired school teacher, and a grandmother and a member of Gunsense, Vermont. Since it began, not long after the six educators, just like me, and 26 year olds, just like my grandchildren, were gunned down in Newtown, Connecticut, in a town just like mine. As an educator and parent, I know how impulsive young people can be and how overwhelmed they can be by temporary feelings. Most of us have seen the current brain research that shows that the frontal cortex, that part of our brains that moderates our feelings with reasoning, does not complete its development until people are well into their 20s. That's what we hear too often, far too often, the terrible news of a young person taking his or her own life. Just two years ago, I got that tragic news from a dear friend who is with me today at this hearing for young son's life ended with a gun suicide. I am concerned about how easy it is for young people in our state to get a gun on an impulse. Suicide is almost always an impulsive act of those who survive a suicide attempt. The vast maturity never attempted again. And long-term studies show that 90% of them do not go on to die of suicide. Suicidal crises are often short-lived. By delaying or limiting access to guns among those at risk, we can save lives. Waiting period laws can make all the difference between having had a bad day and a suicide that ends a life in devastates loved ones forever. The cooling off period can allow a gun purchaser. I'm grateful that the legislature passed an extreme risk prevention order in the last session. Families who have a well-founded fear that loved ones intend to harm self or others can get the help of law enforcement and healthcare providers should also be able to use the ERPA law. Gun violence in our state is of a public health program up our problem and we need to address that. Paul Dane to come down and Pete Lottin to testify. And first I'd like to say I feel sad for the black family and their loss. And I don't have any words to say. I can't say how you people must feel. On the other hand, I'm a strong second amendment advocate. I've had a member of my family that this nation's been in. I took the oath to protect and defend this country when I was 18. And I went overseas with a lot of young guys who never came back. So this document called the Constitution very important to me. I don't know what kind of world we're living in today with Vermont legislators, they legalize drugs and then they have places where methodics can come and shoot up. And I don't know what they expect the final result to be from that. I mean, you're gonna get more of this. I mean, I grew up in the 50s. We worked, our parents made sure we told them I've never seen anything like this. I don't even know what country I'm in today. Turn on the news. I don't know, Vermont used to be a quiet, nice place to live. It's all you see is drug addicts, suicides. And I don't believe this legislation will do anything to curb that. This is law-abiding gun owners. It's our constitution, the right of the people to keep them bare arms. Is there problems with it? Obviously there's problems with everything. But I'm gonna vote no for this waiting period. So anyway, thanks for your time. Eddie Garcia, come down and Jack Friedman to testify. I wanna thank you for your folks listening to me today. My name is Jack Friedman, Island Pond in Dandville. Father of five, grandfather of 11, had firearms in our house. Seems forever. My wife and I were competitive shooters, children of all men and grandchildren. For one's old enough, the problem trained safely. I can't, having said that, I can't imagine losing a child for any reason or a grandchild. But I also know that this bill, in my heart anyway, won't do a darn thing to stop it. My wife is a GAL in the court system. I'm very proud of her, proud of the work she does. And she works with children of all kinds of abusive environments, whether it be due to drugs or alcohol or in some cases violent environments. And I can't understand why a woman who had been threatened, and it does happen, should be denied her right under Article 16. I mean under human rights, but under Article 16 of the Vermont Constitution to defend herself. That's not the second amendment, but I urge you to reread it. And I wouldn't want her to become a statistic at two o'clock in the morning. The other thing is, I had to ask, I don't understand how the legislature squares the passage of an assisted suicide bill and a late term abortion bill with stepping on our neck to try to live in our constitutional rights. You had no problem passing those things, you're very, very little. And as a grandfather that's heard the heartbeats and utero of my grandchildren, you guys are in a moral hole. Thank you. Senator Toscano, come down and Paul Dane to testify. Yeah, it's really not too much to ask that simple thing as far as waiting of what we have deemed to be banners. I realize that they're the American flag. I realize that they're the American flag, but we have the tools that we set and we're going to abide by them. Thank you. We got three. We got one. We got one down too. Maybe one of the only people who speaks today against a waiting term is not a gun owner. But one of the reasons I don't own a farm today is because I know Vermont has said very liberal gun laws. And by liberal I mean classically liberal. I mean rooted in liberty. The reason that liberty is like the ones in our state and U.S. Constitution exist are to give people assurances that the government that's open can be trusted because it trusts them. When those libraries are removed or slowly eroded, the mutual trust between the governing and the government also erodes. I've never owned a farm because I've trusted that when I do need, feel the need like I'll have, that I'll need to have access to one, I can pass a background check. Like I've done plenty of times for professional licenses or getting a license for foster care. And that trust has been enough for me to refrain from purchasing one. But that trust has been eroded. Just as last year when it was demonstrated that I wasn't trusted to own a standard 30 round magazine, I knew that if I was ever going to need one in the future, I had to buy it now. It wasn't a choice I could defer any longer because you were taking away my right and ability to make that decision later. Ironically, your attempt to take certain firearms out of my home had the unintended consequence of putting them in there for the first time. I now own multiple 30 round magazines, but no firearm to attach them to, at least not yet. And that's why I pose the imposition of a new waiting period because someday in the future, I feel that I may need to purchase a firearm for my family's safety or protection. If the store is closed over the weekend or federal or state holiday, I may not have access to the firearm for several days. That's an infringement upon a right I've never abused, a right that I've never even used to this point. I've never done anything that would warrant your distrust. So why are you taking that right away for me now and my family? If you pass this waiting period, the message you're sending is that you no longer trust law abiding non-gun owners like me. And the indirect message it sends to me and the hundreds of other people is we'd better buy our guns in ammunition before, while we can before it's too late. It's not a message I wanna hear. It's not a message I want my neighbors to hear that we're not to be trusted. This is a message I will put more guns in homes sometimes for the first time. Look what happens to gun sales when gun control legislation is being considered. Thank you very much. Vicky Wendell, come down and Eddie Garcia to testify. So it seems a little harsh in places is because I find that I've had to be here far too many times to defend my rights. Now we are. Engaging this bill requiring a 24 hour waiting period for handgun purchases undertaken in the wake of an adult suicide by firearm. As we engage this, it was brought to my attention this morning that in the wake of this morning shooting in my town of St. John'sbury, Gunsense, Vermont is about to bring back a call for so-called safe storage, which means locking your firearms out of your own, reaching your own home. Frankly, I feel tired of the gun control law. It gets instant, pathogenic reaction to every incident involving a firearm being caught from wall restrictions on guns so that nothing to do with the incident. I find this frankly to be gouged, moldy, reprehensible and exploitative. I tire of this. I tire of anti-gun legislative exploiting for you scripting survivors as a weapon against your right to the needs to defend yourself, your home, your family, and your loved ones. All right, the wages are right tonight. And while the reforms to this bill propose restrictions on me, based on the suicide of the adults who were guns of your own, were taken from you by his parents and who he lived. For whatever reason, he took those guns. The parents who, when he was 60 years old, bought a beer-making kit, which he learned to use, who had just been dumped by his girlfriend, arrived clearly marked by depression, substance abuse, as well as the previous suicide and the family. Instead of talking about him, I'm going to talk about somebody else. A woman from New Jersey named Carol Bone. Carol Bone was brutally stabbed to death waiting for her New Jersey gun permit. New Jersey law states that a pistol permit is to be issued or denied within 30 days. 42 days after applying for a pistol permit, Carol Bone was murdered by her abusive ex in her driveway. 42 days longer than 24 hours, but an angrily psychotic ex can act quite quickly. So if you're gruelish, exploitative legislation, I say this to the legislators who salivate the prospect of doing another injury to the rights of law by Vermontists. If you're gruelish, exploitative legislation results in the murder of an innocent to whom you denied the human right to self-defense. If we wait one morning to lead of a Carol Bone here in Vermont because you inconvenienced her by denying her the ability to protect herself, that blood would be on your hands. Roger Stoddard, come down. And Sarah Koskano, to testify. He decided it'd be easier to strangle me than divorce me. I fired him off, but he was a Burlington Vermont social worker so not only did I have to run to a hotel, I was refused help everywhere I went. My friend took me to a gun shop. He explained to me how to handle the firearm because I actually was afraid of them beforehand. And took me out and showed me both how to protect myself with the gun and to protect myself in general. By this time, four days had passed and I had not slept since my ex had been calling me and telling me I had better not piss him off in the future. My instructor friend pleaded with me in the future, please don't wait, just ask for help. And I could have been safer sooner. I slept for the first time that night. I did not have to worry about what he could do to me. I wish I knew the empowerment and safety I could have felt with the firearm the minute my life was threatened. And I wish that that level of safety for everyone who's a lot of biting in Vermont. Thank you. Jennifer Nip, come down and Vicki Winslow to testify. Hi, I had things to say, but the more I've been listening, the more I think on last year, my then nine-year-old grandson said he wanted to die. He didn't, we intervened on, you know, this would have done nothing to help him. He was nine. He can't buy a gun until you're 21. I've heard people talking about how the children and teens, you know, well, they're not old enough to buy a gun and handguns cost an incredible amount of money. I see guns all the time, I'd like to buy, but I cannot afford them. So that being said, this will do nothing to prevent suicides or self harm or harm others. There's a black market, this will drive up the black market. The bad guys that are out there, the ones that break into people's homes and steal guns and trade them for drugs, those bad people will be out there waiting to sell anybody a gun that has $100, $50, whatever it takes. This will be a victory for the black market if this passes. The criminals are just like, yes, please pass this because we need the business. We want people to not buy guns in a gun store. Yeah, I'm good, thanks. Top German combat and Roger Stoddard to testify. Hello, my name is Roger Stoddard and I live in Morgan, Vermont. I had to take time off work today to be here to come speak in opposition to S169's waiting period on handgun purchases. I'm discouraged that once again, it has become necessary to speak up for freedom in this state. I'm a natural born Vermonter, the descendant of many generations of natural born Vermonters. Like most Vermonters, I just wanted to be left alone and live my life in the way my parents did. But here I am again, back in Montpelier, compelled to take a stand in preserving our freedom. I drove down here today, braving potholes, texting drivers, drug drivers, non-citizen drivers. All to do something that I never should have had to do. I argue to preserve freedom for Vermonters. Bill S169 has been advertised as a bill to stop impulsive suicide. I'd say the rights of the people in the state of Vermont are worth more than that. While I do have much compassion, great compassion for the families of the people who've committed suicide, I also have it for families of the people killed by drunk drivers and texting drivers and people who've overdosed on drugs, et cetera. None of these should push us to give up our precious freedoms of which others have fought and died for. There are other ways to help people in crisis that don't involve stripping the rights from all the rest of us who aren't. Under the proposed bill, even after being cleared by the federal NICS system, if I wanted to buy a handgun at Harold's Gun Shop in Waterbury, I'd have to make two trips from Morgan to Waterbury. That's a huge waste of financial, environmental, and time resources. Anyone who says that if only one life is saved by this bill, then it would be worth it, I'd say if you don't value your freedom the way many of us in this room do. In fact, I feel that philosophy belittles the sacrifices our soldiers have made to secure and maintain our freedom. Freedom is not free. I urge you all to oppose bill 169's waiting period and any other bill that chisels away at our rights and freedoms. Thank you for having me. Michael Morgan come down and Jennifer Knipp to testify. So this is very hard for me to come here and share my very personal story. I am of a minor, a mom of two girls, a daughter, a wife, an Iraqi war veteran. I have a full-time job and a part-time job and an MBA that helped me get there. I used to be a regional airline pilot and I was previously married. This man beat me to within an inch of my life and pushed me into a bathtub one night. I lost consciousness and suffered a concussion. Because of this I live with debilitating headaches and vertigo. This incident ultimately caused me to lose my flying career. What was worse than that was the stalking, the sleepless nights and the fear stemming from the split. One day I decided to dust off my handgun and go to the range. I had a gentleman at the range step in and give me some pointers. I left that day with a newfound confidence. For the first time in a long time I slept well that night. I knew that I could defend myself against my six foot two ex-husband if I needed to. I'm here because I'm doing this for my two girls. If any of you are for women's rights and equality you should vehemently oppose any new gun legislation. A firearm is the only thing that levels the playing field for a woman. I don't want somebody to have to wait 24 hours to purchase a firearm to defend herself. I know that abusers will stop at nothing and 24 hours might just be too long. And since I have a couple extra minutes I wanna share a quote from the ruling in California on the standard capacity magazines. This decision is a freedom calculus decided long ago by colonists who cherished individual freedom more than the subservient security of a British ruler. The freedom they thought for, fought for was not free of cost to them and is not free now. These knee jerk feel good reactions have to stop in the state. Just a second, I gotta call somebody down. How's your doing? It's cutting into time for people to testify. Will Peterson come down and Tom Drummy is testifying. I wanna first start off by offering my condolences to the family of Andrew Black. As a first responder of my local community and a college student in today's society I see suicide and depression on almost a weekly basis. Depression and suicide are both extremely complex issues that many times someone cannot overcome alone. These people are frequently left with feelings of hopelessness, despair, unwantedness or a feeling that they burden those around them. I can most certainly tell you that these feelings don't go away overnight. These people do not simply wake up the next day and see the birds chirping and the sun shining and they're magically cured of their disease. No, it goes on for days and even weeks. In the years between 2005 and 2018, the CDC reported that there was 1,308 suicides in the state of Vermont. Of these suicides, one was committed with a firearm that was purchased within 24 hours. This should show you just how ineffective a 24 hour waiting period would be is the prevention of suicide. So let's look at the real issue. Not guns, but mental health. Close friend of mine several years ago attempted commit suicide. She was rushed to local hospital where she was stabilized. She was kept locked in an emergency room for five days before a bed had opened up at the nearby Brattleboro tree. Emergency departments are no longer only for if you've broken a leg or have a gaping wound. They've become the center of where people have been forced to flock due to the inability of Vermont mental health facilities to perform at the level that they and we need. 24 hour waiting period is not gonna stop this issue. Having better resources for mental health is. This is a violation of our second amendment rights and cannot be passed. You've all heard the saying first they'll take an inch then they'll take a mile. We cannot stand for these violations. While suicide is indeed a problem in Vermont, waiting 24 hours is not going to diminish the person's feeling of suicide. If they're committed, they'll definitely find some other way to kill themselves. As a wise Vermonter once told me, something ain't broke, I'll fix it. And Michael Morgan to testify. Good evening ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity to speak. I'm Michael Morgan from Milton. I'm a United States Air Force Academy graduate and a 38 year veteran in the United States Air Force at Vermont Air National Guard. Why are we not talking about time waiting periods on all items that contribute to suicide? In other words, how about rope, antifreeze, queasy gorge, bridges, vehicles, wood mothers against drunk driving endorse a waiting period on vehicle purchases that drunk people use to kill innocent people. This, like last year's S-55, as many have said, is another knee-jerk reaction. Why are we not looking into mental health issues as many have said, instead of putting in motion laws that restrict even more of our rights? That's what this is all about. 24 hours will not change a thing. If someone wants to end their life, they will do it one way or another. You will hurt the small business owners that do sell firearms illegally and correctly under existing federal law. Lawmakers are using suicide in this instance to contribute to the slippery slope of firearms infringement. Lawmakers have known that they can't change the Second Amendment, so sadly they're chipping away in this mode. We think something is blowing in the winds of this structure, as I've heard the opposition mention, a 72 hour waiting period repeatedly. What's going on, folks? Let's not change what has worked in my beloved home state of Vermont for over 200 years. This is nonsense. Stop infringing on my rights. Thank you. And the last speaker of the night will be, I think it's Ruel Peterson. It's Ruel Peterson. Thank you for calling me. I'd just like to say that I hate coming down here because three times when this happens, you guys chip away the Second Amendment and it's aggravating. I mean, law-abiding citizens should not have to go through this. I mean, number one, it's in my constitution. Number two, it's in the Bill of Rights. Why do you keep doing this? I feel sorry for a person who took their lives. I really do. I don't know the person, but I've had friends that say things happen to me. I come from Kerala. It's not your city or brotherly love. And at any given weekend, there's 22 murders. And those murders are committed by people who are not buying guns from gun shows and gun stores. You buy them on the streets for 50 bucks, whether they're 90 millimeters or calibers or AKs, whatever. Criminals do not care about your gun laws. They never had, they never will. They get right out of prison and they buy guns, okay? I've seen it. I've been mugged twice at gunpoint. The only thing that saved me was my ability to run. I'm 53 years old now. I had six screws in my ankle. I had a torn meniscus right now. So that's not a possibility. So please stop trying to change the Vermont to New York. If you don't like guns, don't buy guns. I like guns. I'm not stopping you. I'm just sticking to a certain amount of elitist people telling the rest of us what to do. I have one thing to ask, learn four words. Just turn around and be in front of you. Good luck. I guess that's gonna conclude our evening.