 afternoon and welcome to Moments with Melinda. I am so thrilled today to have my guest, Glenn Faye. Glenn, how are you? I'm great. It couldn't be nicer here in Burlington. It is a beautiful spring day and I'm just so thrilled to have you on my show. Let me tell my viewers a little bit about Glenn Faye. Glenn is a seventh generation Vermonter and a descendant of Daniel Champion, a green mountain boy who served in Warner's Regiment during the Revolutionary War. Glenn grew up and has lived in Burlington much of his life and graduated from the University of Vermont. He is the author of Hidden History of Burlington, Vermont. So, Glenn, you stayed in this book that it does not take the reader on a chronological walk through time. Instead, it unravels intriguing tales and images of older times, of humble beginnings, and some not so humble outcomes. But first, we're going to focus on some of those, focus on your life before we get into those tales. Is that okay with you? That's okay. Because I think my viewers want to know a little bit about Glenn Faye and who you are and where you come from. So, tell us a little bit about you. Tell us what your life was like growing up in Vermont. Well, I had the good fortune of having good parents, good grandparents who were all many generations Vermonters and spent a lot of time in the outdoors, you know, developed an interest in science at an early age. And that's kind of where I kind of ended up in terms of my studies. And so I guess I feel very privileged because I, you know, like I said, I had an easy upbringing and I had a great college four years through UVM and came back and did graduate work later on and ended up teaching for 40 years. And so I have a lot of experiences are very rich and very mindful of the of the history that's gone on here, even though history really didn't bite me. And so I didn't get the bug until, you know, midlife, shall we say. And so it kind of happened, you know, unexpectedly. Airdipously. But what's so fascinating about you, Glenn, is that you were a seventh generation Vermonter. And we don't meet a lot of seventh generation Vermonters. So share with my viewers a little bit about what inspired you. And I mean, you are a true Vermonter and most of us that you probably hang out with or know are not. So tell us about growing up in Vermont and what is and it was what it was like back in the days before many of us were came here. And also tell us a little bit about the person or the people who inspired you the most in your life and helped you develop your love of history and also your gift of writing. Well, growing up in in Vermont in the fifties and the sixties. I can remember, for example, Williston Road. And I can remember a farm where the Sheraton is. I'm not even sure it's the Sheraton anymore. I think it's I think it's the double tree. Yeah. And and so I can I can remember where it was fairly uncongested and and Shelburne Road wasn't a a strip all the way to Virgin's. So I can remember those times and the, you know, the the change over 60 years, over 68 years of my lifetime is really phenomenal. And so I kind of took it for granted that I had this this kind of perspective. But most of the people I work with throughout my career were not from Vermont. And I started noticing this. You know, it didn't really make any difference to me because people it's about ideas. And it's about what you do with your life. And I just had this rich experience, spending time in Goshen with my grandfather, where his generations came from my grandfather Fay. And my great grandfather was a dentist and virgins on my mother's side. And I spent, you know, some time in virgins. And so I learned about the rich history and, you know, the beautiful architecture there in that area. And I really had no idea that there were British ships on Lake Champlain blasting cannons at American ships right outside, you know, right on the lake until, you know, I reached my mid 30s. And, and so I kind of grew up without this, this kind of historical realism, you know, that historians know, and I didn't learn it in school. And so I was very fortunate to, to actually stumble upon that history and realize how close I was to this. And all the while I didn't know that I had revolutionary war veteran ancestors. I knew my grandmother Powers was a member of the Daughters of the American Revolution. And what that meant was somewhere there was, there was an officer or a militiaman who served in the Revolutionary War. So I should put two into together. And it didn't make that much difference to me at the time. But, but growing up that way, you, you have a different perspective than people who've only been here a short time because the world has changed so much. That's right. So who do you, who do you think was your greatest inspiration? Oh, well, I think there are a lot of people. I mean, my parents were, you know, incredibly good parents and inspiring. And Tommy, some, you know, basic virtues, you know, that still stick with me today. My wife and my kids have inspired me becoming a father, becoming an author. You know, people contacted me with when my first book for my seven years or Alan came out. Someone contacted me on Facebook and said you're not going to believe this, but you're a descendant of a green mountain boy. And so I did not know that. And, and so once I started doing a little more genealogy, it became more significant and what maybe there's some reason I'm interested in, in this these people and what was happening here. Because it's in your DNA. It's in your genes, Glenn. It is. It is. It is. Well, it's not very often that my viewers or, or I get to speak with a seven generation for monitors. So I'm so honored that you're sharing your story with us today. Now, listen, I have to tell you that your writing style is beautiful. You have a way of spinning a story that is colorful and very personal. And I just want to let you know that you're a wonderful storyteller. So we're going to move into with my viewers your book called Hidden History of Burlington, Vermont. It's 175 pages with 50 images. The time period ranges from the 1780s through the 1920s, except for a section on the churches that burned, which was in the 1970s. And it's broken down into seven sections. So what made you choose this time period, Glenn, from the 1780s through the 1920s? Well, that that time period to me, the 18th century, is fascinating. The hardships that people lived under the uncertainty, the polarization in our country over whether to rebel against the British. And so there was it was a really that the point where Burlington actually finally had settlers in the 1780s was a real scary time. And people were bringing their families here to the wilderness. And so that to me is a fascinating time. And I've done some research. I serve on the board at the Ethan Allen Homestead. And I'm really fascinated with that time period. And I've done some research on the Allen family. And so I wanted to start there because that's that's where the colonial settlement started. But there was so much risk, rich history before then as well. Well, I want to I want to talk to you about that. Yeah. You do focus in the in the in the chapter 12 in the chapter 12 millennia of human history, the early humans who lived here, the Abinaki ancestors dating to the end of the last ice age, the years of the mammoth. Can you talk a little bit about that time in human history and what Vermont was like during that time? Well, it's, you know, I identify as a European white man who whose ancestors came here in the late 1700s. And so I'm probably the wrong person to actually narrate that history. I do have friends who I relied on to help me to make sure that story that narrative was was in keeping with their view and their history. And so but but suffice it to say, in a nutshell, that people were here from, you know, from the time of the last ice age, there were people here nomadic, and also year round residents. And we have all kinds of archaeological evidence along, particularly around along Winooski River on both sides of the river. And, you know, most near the lake, the the rivers and lakes were were highways, there were no roads, there were the paths, as we know in Vermont can be rocky or muddy or marshy. So it was a very different landscape. And you also had, you know, people subsisting on sustainable agriculture and hunting and gathering and in a in a dangerous time where there were large carnivorous mammals if you really mammals. Yeah. And so so we have these different time periods and there's evidence that progressively over time they became more and more complex with their tools with their crops with with their practices. And and then the introduction of the Europeans kind of changed things. And and there was so there was a lot of trading. There were there was conflict among the original native tribes. So there's all kinds of things that were happening here before the settlers, the colonial settlers. It's a great chapter in your book. And again, to my viewers, we're talking to Glenn Faves, the author of Hidden History of Burlington, Vermont. So Glenn, you you hit on it just a little bit, but let's go back. Let's talk about the 1700s in Vermont. And you you said the families were big diseases were rampant. Children died early. There were crop failures and a lack of currency. Can you talk a little bit about that time for our viewers? Well, imagine a time before they were we before we had any kind of weather predictability whatsoever. And imagine a time when you couldn't irrigate your garden. You had to rely on prayer or whatever. You're carrying water in buckets from the river. Imagine a time when people were literally starving. We have accounts of families living on bread and milk all winter in Vermont. There were certain years where there were droughts and and peoples couldn't grow hay. And they grew they grew hay to harvest for wheat. I'm sorry, they grew wheat to harvest for grain for bread back then and corn. But if you had a bad year, if it was too wet or too dry, which it was on occasion, people really had hardships. And not only that, there was all kinds of political conflict. We were kind of being fought over by New York and New Hampshire. And so both governors were selling deeds to Vermont land. And the New Hampshire deeds were a much better deal. They were discount priced. They you could own your own land. The New York deeds were, you know, they allowed you to be a tenant, but you weren't able to you know, own your own place. You could build a place on it. So so the Green Mountain Boys really wanted to hold on to their New Hampshire grants and not be bullied around by the Yorkers, who were trying to tax them and get them to buy their land. So that in a nutshell is is the political situation. You actually had two rebellions going on. One was against New York, and one was against the British. So it was a complicated time. It was a complicated time. So Glenn, let's talk a little bit. You have a section in your book about immigration. And immigration really did bloom in Burlington in the 1800s. So can you talk a little bit about the different groups that immigrated here? This is one of the real eyeopening parts of my research. And there were people like Vince Feeney, who deserve a ton of credit. And Vince is a local historian, professor at Champlain, I believe, or was, but he's written a couple of books on the subject. And it was really surprising to me how how rich our culture was in Burlington. You had this initial group of people from Massachusetts and Connecticut, who came up here to Homestead. And then some of them made mills on the river and or started shipping companies. And then you needed people to build infrastructure on the waterfront, docks and ships and so forth. So there were immigrants coming in from Canada. Some of them were French speaking immigrants. Some of them were Irish people coming over, families. And so you had this interesting mix of French and Irish settling around the waterfront. And then as time went on, you had Jewish populations fleeing all kinds of persecution from overseas come into the North Street area and mixing with some of the Irish and so forth. You had some Germans who came and established a small community around the Gerta Lodge down on Crowley Street. And so you had all of these, this melting pot, really, and that's where you have why we have such beautiful churches. We have Catholic churches, we had Episcopal churches, we have the original two congregational churches. One is the Unitarian Church and one is the First Congregational, which the original one burned, it was on Pearl Street on the same property. So there's a lot of surprises in there and the timeframe all starts in the late 1800s and then goes up into the early 1900s. Fascinating part of your book, Glenn. So I loved every section of your book and I really enjoyed how you broke it down into seven areas of your focus. Now part six is architectural riches and of course that touches my heart. Can you talk a little bit about some of the great structures that you highlight in your book and why you chose to highlight them? This is a really tough one to choose because I am, I've always been impressed with the architecture in Burlington. It's been inspiring to me, my whole life in college and now to live here and it's one of the reasons that the city is so great. So how do you choose five or 10 buildings to celebrate or to draw attention to when there's probably 25 or 30 or 50 or more? And so I actually went to my sisters who are both graphic artists and they've actually, they know a little thing or two about art and design and architecture more than I did. And I said, if you had to pick five, you know, what would they be in? And I didn't disagree with any of their selections, but the kinds of buildings that came up have remarkable stories like a Billings Library, which is originally a library for George Perkins Marsh, built by Frederick Billings, who was a native Woodstock, Vermont, and so was Marsh, actually. And Billings wanted to preserve Marsh's books, his library of, I don't know, how many thousand volumes. So he built this monument, which is Billings Library, which is absolutely spectacular inside and out. One of the first ones is the Grassmount Mansion on Main Street, which we can't miss. It's that big yellow building that was built, I believe in 1804, which is an amazing, amazing feat because back then there was a ravine cutting through the middle of the city, so they literally had to build a bridge over Main Street, and it was that hillside was inaccessible until the early 1800s. And that was built by a lawyer named Thaddeus Tuttle, who later lost it and it was, it changed hands several times, but it just has a remarkable, rich collection of artwork painted on the walls and on the woodwork, and it's just amazing to get inside and see. So it's great because people reading your book, they can go to these buildings and they can actually go in and see them for themselves. They can, and I did put up on my book website additional pictures. The book would only allow two or three pictures per chapter, and so I have color pictures of up in the Belvedere, some of the three-dimensional work up there in the painting, and some of the interior woodwork and so forth, the wallpaper and watercolor, prompter lay, three-dimensional work, and so forth. So tell our viewers, Glenn, where they can find your work. It's a Facebook page, right? Yeah, it's a Facebook page called Hidden History of Burlington, Vermont. So if you Google it, Facebook Hidden History of Burlington, Vermont, I'm sure you'll find it. If you're on Facebook, you can just search for it in the search box on Facebook and you'll find it. So to my viewers, Hidden History of Burlington, Vermont, Google it, or if you're on Facebook, put it in your search, and Glenn is adding and uploading things to that Facebook page all the time. Fascinating stuff, and you're sharing stuff with us all, all the time, Glenn, so thank you for that. You're welcome. Thank you. So I was wondering if you would, if you would want to read something a little bit from your book for our viewers. Sure. The first chapter talks about a royal visitor that came to Burlington when Burlington only had a few hundred residents and Burlington stretched all the way out and included Williston, South Burlington, parts of Richmond. It was 35,000 acres and there were only maybe a half a dozen or a dozen homes in the, what we consider Burlington area, mostly by the bay or by the river at that time. And one man who did have a home was on Pearl Street. His name was Phineas Loomis. And this is Prince Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent and Stratham, who was a King George III's son. Now remember this is just after the Revolutionary War ended and Vermont had become a state and things were, were looking up between the two countries and it starts here. The Princess Slays were impressive, but nothing compared to his father's gilded carriage weighing eight tons and measuring 24 feet long and 13 feet tall. Nonetheless, the teams of croppiered horses, the military guards in Phil Regalia and the enormous Slays were extraordinary to behold on the rustic windswept landscape in northern Vermont. Madame de Saint Laurent, his mistress, arrived elegantly attired, covered in several fur robes and with a large dog on one of several Slays. Along with Edward's guests, the entourage included a military escort, body guards, attendance and a personal chef, trunks of food, clothing and other provisions, filled up with several Slaves. The Prince's valets unloaded more than a dozen carry old trunks of belongings at the two heroes in, that's in South Hero. The next day, the Royal Entourage reloaded the Slays and trotted 16 miles across the ice to Burlington. According to Prince Edward's biographer, Molly Gillan, two of the Slays carrying the Prince's wardrobe crashed through the ice. His entire wardrobe was lost in the lake. According to Gillan, the Prince had the shock and mortification of seeing two of his Slays carrying the whole of his baggage consisting of what plate linen clothes, etc. He then possessed fall through the cracking surface into the lake. Prince Edward would replace his haberdashery once he arrived in Boston the following week. After the near disaster on the lake, Prince Edward, his girlfriend and the rest of the entourage arrived at the hillside accommodations of Phineas Lumis. They stayed there for a couple of nights. How cool was that? How fascinating. Yeah. Just fascinating. Was anybody hurt when the Slays went through the ice? Apparently not. Oh, that's amazing. Well, listen, thank you for reading that for us. We're coming close to the end of the show, so I want to just ask you a couple more questions. So what are some of the highlights of growth in Burlington since the 1920s that you find intriguing, interesting, and noteworthy? The highlights of growth? Since the 1920s. A couple of them that you're excited about or Well, I will tell you, anybody who has seen pictures of the waterfront in the early 1900s or even the mid 1900s or even the, you know, towards the 1970s knows that the waterfront has gone through an incredible transformation. And in great part to you, Melinda. So that is one thing that, you know, is incredible, incredible transformation. And in fact, even in the last 20 years, there have been, you know, huge changes where there were grain silos there. We had a coal fired power plant that finally has been cleaned up. You know, there was just all kinds of industrial just, you know, waste and destruction down there for a long time. And mayors tried to clean it up for a long time. It's interesting to see the kind of architecture that's happening now as we rush to build housing and hold on to, you know, property. And it's, you know, it's not all, you know, it doesn't look like the old architecture at all. So I think for me, it makes me cherish that history and that beauty, the architectural beauty that we have here. I agree with you. I agree with you. So what's your next project, Glenn? Well, I've got another, I've got some more research on the Allens. And then I'm really interested in a lot of other subjects. And I'm not really, you know, I'm not sure where it's going and may go into some, some fiction. But I'm interested in where the virtues have gone. The virtues that, you know, when I was growing up, things were a lot different then. And I cannot believe some of the things we're seeing. And I feel like an older wiser man having this perspective that this isn't the way it's supposed to be. And some of the directions we're going. And I don't know if that's something I can write about. But I'm also interested in altruism. There are a lot of people who step forward and were more than happy to help me with this. And there are other people that have really, you know, given to Burlington and given a lot, just out of the goodness of their heart. And what makes some people want to give and other people want to hoard? I think that's a really interesting question. So I know those are philosophical issues. But I have a lot of stories from from teaching and working with people. And so it'll be interesting to see if I can use any of those stories to get people to think about things like that. You're a wise sage, Glen Fay, and I am so glad to have met you. And your book Hidden History of Burlington, Vermont, where can people find it? Amazon, Phoenix Books, go local, go local. Yeah. You can find it if you Google it. It's the History Press or Arcadia Publishing, which is the parent company. But they're selling it. Amazon sells it. The local bookstores should all have it. If they don't have it yet, they will very soon. And Melinda, I just wanted to say thank you to you. You are an amazing person. You've done amazing things for Burlington. And I really appreciate, you know, you reaching out to me and giving me so much support and kindness. And you're really special. Thank you. Thank you. I feel the same way about you. This is a very fabulous book, my friend, The Hidden History of Burlington by Glen Fay. And I ask it all of you read this book if you care about our city. And maybe Glen will get to work together on a Burlington Museum down the road. Wouldn't that be fun to do a project like that together? To my viewers, I want to thank you so much for joining me. And I will see you soon.