 A welcome back. It's still the breakfast on plus TV Africa away from off the press or discussing something very pertinent English will be had sometimes. Now the social economic right and accountability project, Sarah, has asked the Senate President Ahmad Lawan and the speaker of the House of Representatives, Femi Bajabi Amir Latif, promptly cuts the outrageous national assembly budget of 228.1 billion Naira, including that 30.17 billion Naira severance payment and inauguration costs for members. Nassaf's deputy director, Kola Wali-Oluwadari, wants them to propose a fresh budget for the national assembly that would reflect the current economic realities in the country and address the debt crisis and prevent retrogressive economic measures. We have Kola Wali-Oluwadari joining us right now. Thanks for joining us on breakfast, Kola. Yes, it is indeed a pleasure to have you now. I just read your statement. You issued them yesterday. You're asking the federal government for a fresh budget. How possible is this knowing that the President has definitely ascended to the 2023 budget? That's not only possible as a matter of fact. It is also permissible by law, which is why it is documentary appropriation in case we have various issues with the budget. And Naira has done that several times in the past. So in this instance, it is not really very difficult to do. I think the question is whether those who are concerned in this instance have the required political will to do that. And that would mean whether that is their interest. Because really, when one looks at the nature of the budget and the period expenditure of that, at the allocations that are vegetal. It will be very difficult to infer that those who have done this, both on the executive and the legislature, are the interests of the engineers that act. The figures themselves speak for themselves when you look at those figures. Not talking about the huge deficit that we really do not have a client here, and we are going to fall. You have also mentioned that you are very sure that the National Assembly members don't have the interest of Nigerians or not. And then calling for a new budget reflecting the interests of the people. Do you then think this is possible? It's not possible. It's only possible because Nigerians can pray to be the statutory powers that they have over public officials. And in this instance, the National Assembly, don't forget. These individuals elected public officials among Nigerians to represent in the interest of the various members of their constituencies. And naturally they do give a touch to those members of their constituencies. So in this kind of advocacy, it is expected that the people, the Nigerians, particularly the overwounded and 30 million Nigerians who will take this spot and ensure that the members, the legislatures in the Senate and the out of entities, do what is right in the interests of Nigerians. If they can be pardoned for what they did initially, then they should take the right step in this instance to ensure that this budget reflects not only the economic realities that most Nigerians face, but the realities that we face as a nation. This budget appears to have been made really, it doesn't speak to the realities of ramp. Perhaps it speaks to the realities of the members of the National Assembly and other public officials who are entitled, who have access to some of these things. But really, these cannot be said to be the reality of Nigerians, particularly the overwounded and 30 million Nigerians that the NDS have said are very poor in Nigeria. Alright, let me just quote your verbatim from what you said in your statement. You said aptly that cutting the National Assembly budget would reduce the growing budget deficit addressed the unsustainable debt burden and serve the public interest. But just how is this possible? Because you also went on to say that by increasing its own budget, the National Assembly has unjustifiably and disproportionately reduced the budget for Yubek. You talked about the current realities in the country, you talked about how 133 million Nigerians are living in poverty. The National Assembly, they know this, they leave with us here in Nigeria. Is it like they are not bothered or they are just merely about their own selfish interest really? That is exactly why you said it would appear like they only acted in their own best interest, or they are not aware of the realities in the country. And I guess they are aware, they are Nigerians, they have seen this, they've read this, and naturally by the nature of their offices, they have access to facts and figures to have been able to act in the best interest of Nigeria. And to speak directly to the issues of, to some of those examples of the realities that we face, apart from the fact that 133 million Nigerians are living in poverty. One would expect that this budget will focus on critical areas of intervention that will cushion the effect of that poverty on Nigerians. And that is not to say that the steps cannot be taken to fight poverty. But as government is taking steps to fight poverty, by building on the most important infrastructure, steps to be taken to cushion the effect of that poverty on Nigerians. And in this instance, looking at the appropriations to Yubek, the law, that is the Yubek Act that provided a claim, and that section 11, that not less than 1% of the consular relief fund should be allocated to the Universal Basic Education Fund. The same thing is in the National Health Act, which goes to primary health care, not less than 1% to those funds. And those funds, when you look at what they are meant to address, looking at those two spectrums alone, and we have other spectrums as well, education and health. If adequate funding is directed towards these areas, and they are spent like we showed, naturally, this will help to cushion the effect of poverty. But what it's saying is that Yubek is allocated as part of a digital transfer, just under $200 million, while the National Assembly has $228 million. It just doesn't look fair. The National Assembly is made up of less than 400 members. Why would they get a better allocation than the bulk of Nigerians who don't have access to primary health care in this instance? And that is why government needs to do this bucket in a way that is going to cushion the effect of poverty in Niger. And then, critically, if this bucket is reduced, naturally, the deficits will reduce. The need to borrow, which is really going to come up, will then reduce. And then that will also speak to the funding. So it's a two-part thing. While we are reducing funding by spending in critical areas, we also reduce the debt for them. So I'm just wondering why Sarah didn't make this request before this budget was sent to the President for assent. I mean, prior to the time that we had the National Assembly concerning that and before it got to Mr. President for assent. But another concern here is the threat by, you know, Sarah, don't you think that this is an effort in futility? No, if it is, we cannot have funds to give up. And don't forget that budgetary budget means the ability to present the opportunity to the National Assembly. And the National Assembly do have the statutory powers to review. Review means it can go up or down. Nobody is doubting that. We are not disputing their power to review. But even the exercise of that review should be done according to the oath of office they've taken in the best interest of Nigeria. And in this regard, until the National Assembly has done with this review and sent it back to the President, we do not have what we can call a budget. And even until the President signs up on it by way of accent, it is not yet law as it were. It is this accent of the President that makes it an appropriation act. So before all that is done, what we can have is advocacies, looking on it, but we cannot act as it were with the on those issues. And don't forget, when the bill was sent to the National Assembly, the National Assembly budget was less than 200 billion. It was when the National Assembly reviewed it and sent it to the President for accent that it became 128 billion. So until the President signs, it is not yet law as it were. But now that he has signed it, it's law. But the law can be amended. And the National Assembly can act in this interest in this regard, in itself, of Nigeria. And actually, it is not a threat. We are law-abiding citizens. And we, these advocacy of a chore, of course, of the work and government of Nigeria, naturally, will end up in the judiciary who has been given the statutory powers to determine the rights and obligations between citizens and government. No, but I mean, a lot of persons have been very impressed by, you know, how CERAP has, you know, kept government on their toes. But people are asking how much results have, you know, CERAP achieved. We know that there have been several lawsuits. And so would this make any difference? Is it not another lawsuit that would not yield any result? And that's why I'm asking, is this not an effort in fertility? It would depend on what Nigeria is, whether I was looking at the tax-to-be-resort. In this instance, we are taking legal steps to ensure that we challenge ourselves. Not so as to keep government on its toes, but to amend within the grave error of injustice to the Nigerian people. And so the only legal avenue for citizens, individuals and even public officers and institutions to have less grievances is in judiciary. And that is what we're talking about. Unfortunately, that may take a bit of a time because of the slow process of things. Which is, again, a symptom of the issues we have as part of bad government in Nigeria. But we can do no other thing. Any other thing would be unlawful, which is not something we would subscribe to as a law-abiding organization. Alright, color-ally, you know, some people would actually agree with you when you say that it is a waste of public money, as it is. And it's also exactly increasing the cost of governance, which we have been debating over time at various some fora. Now, what more can we do? Besides from Serap coming up to a statement almost every weekend and saying it to take him, the president or the federal government to court. What can we do as citizens? What other roles can we really play? Because we just can't watch what arms folded and just watch our nation's resources just get wasted like that. We should continue to advocate. And in this peculiar instance, within the context of the election year and going on, the politicking, if we can call it that, Nigeria needs to be able to engage in this political process. Within the purview of critical issues like this, we should be able to move away from pedestrian politics, strife, ethnicity, religion. That is not the issue. We should be able to engage. Those who have come up to context of various public offices on critical issues like power, good governance, the rule of law, open judgments of court. So those are the issues we need to use now. This we know probably close in the next couple of weeks. So this is the opportunity to engage. And by engagement, we have various platforms, including the one we are going to presently have conversations, talk, ask questions. Those are the things that can make the advocacy count at this particular time. After the elections, we will return the advocacy for good governance. For pre-elections, we need to engage those who want to open the office with these issues so that they can make commitments. And it's not about whether they're going to keep them or not when they actually get to the office. But we need to extract those commitments from them presently so that they speak as we go into pre-elections. Alright, Koala, just before we'll let you go now. Let's talk about checks and balances. The National Assembly is supposed to be checking in on the executive as part of their legislative duties. But in this scenario that we have from all of the semesters that we've had so far, the 7th, the 8th and the 9th, they've all have almost served as a rubber stamp for the executive, and they have not actually pursued the Corsa for which they have been represented. They've been asked to represent them, the citizenry. You know, we're going to pose some time next year. What would you really advise Nigerians as they go to pose in peaking their representatives? I doubt we can call the National Assembly a rubber stamp. Without the content of this, I believe there's action. A rubber stamp would please you, an individual, who does not have the will of his own, who is in the beating of another. But in this instance, by increasing its budget to $218 billion, the National Assembly is fully aware of what they are doing. And they're acting in their own best interest. So they are not a rubber stamp. They know what they are doing. And this action, I daresay, is not. It can only be justifiable to be in the best of the region. And so what Nigerians need to do is to engage within the context of the law with these individuals who are representing them. The answer to their constituencies, either when they come for votes every four years cycle, or when they go back to their various constituencies for engagement, they need to engage them. And again, this is a very good opportunity. Most of these individuals or new entrants wants to come to the National Assembly, they constitute, they would be electorate should engage them with these issues, and ask them critical questions. What is their position on these issues? And we need to go beyond petition and politics that would be enough to evolve. And that is what I think Nigerians can do presently. It may appear slow, but I can tell you, it will work. Thank you so much. We have been speaking with Kola Wale Oluwadare, Deputy Director, Sirap. We're talking about the National Assembly's outrageous budget, as it is. Thank you for joining us this morning. We do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. All right. Merci. It's almost like you or we sound like a broken record. Each time we keep on saying the same issues over and over again, high cost of governance and increasing the National Assembly's budget. And this time, I'm not just the jumbo pay that we have talked over time. Severance pay, mercy, it's about 30.17 billion Naira. Severance pay just to leave office as it were. So, I mean, it's not surprising, and that's why I'm wondering why we're here. Maybe we need to just do what we need to do. Which is? Which is talking about it, which is having civil society groups, the likes of Sirap and what have you, you know, raised questions and challenged the status quo and hope that they get answers because I really don't think that it's going to make any difference because originally, if you look at the intent and the thoughts of those who are members of the National Assembly, they ought to represent the interests of the people. There's no reason why at this point where an economy, you know, we have an economy that we have at this point in time where there's double digits inflation, we're grappling with the issue of revenue and what have you, there should be increasing what you're earning. It's not, it's not rational, it's not normal to consider. But yes, we have people who say they represent the interests of different persons or the interests of Nigerians, but actually not the interests of Nigerians. And another issue, apart from the fact that, you know, the National Assembly will be going with a lot, you also have that this budget, it's not a budget that we can fund. We don't have what it takes to fund this budget. So what's going to be boring to pay these members of the National Assembly doesn't even make sense. It brings me back to, you know, the question where I remember once upon a time, in my 100th level as a student, my professor asked me in the class, he said, well, what's an Ohambe government? And I started to wonder what he means by Ohambe. So in my mind, I know Ohambe is like Patsy and all of that. So why are we, why is he talking about Ohambe government? So, but now I understand, you know, vividly what, you know, he meant by an Ohambe government and Nigeria being an example of an Ohambe government because we're boring. So the budget, let's leave all of the semantics and what have you, the 2023 budget, the Nigeria economy or the Nigeria as a country does not have what it takes to fund this budget. So they will have to depend on external sources, you know, to fund the budget. So we're saying the budget is a plan. The budget is what you tend to, you know, spend. There are revenue projections, what you hope to earn and all of that. So we don't have what it takes. What we have projected that this is what we want to spend. We don't have what it takes to fund this budget. So we're going to borrow. We don't have the money. That's what it means. And so in the midst of the 2023 budget, you see how the National Assembly putting out that amount of money, increasing it from $59 billion. It's crazy because they're actually the ones that should be scrutinizing the president's borrowing, the loans and overdrafts for the supplementary budget that we hear all of the time. But right now it's just about your own interest. They know that we can fund this budget. It's going to be funded based on debt financing. Logically, you should find a way of cutting costs but they are not doing that. They are not willing to cut their own budget. They would rather reduce the budget for education so that they can go home smiling and their bank accounts can be fat at all times. So we constantly raise the question as to whose interest is all of this? Who are we really representing? It's an election. Not the interest of Nigerians. You know the most interesting thing for me now is that we're an election year and this is the reason why Nigerians need to wake up. You know, we all need to wake up to the fact that here's power is in the hands of the people. We need to come to that reality and understand that we can't continue like this and expect a different country. It doesn't work. I mean, it's really saddening. It's heartbreaking that a group of peasants will sit down and not consider. So we're going to be boring to pay this. And so you talk about the interest and what have you. Now the developed worlds are not even taking it lightly for the underdeveloped or developing economies such as Nigeria. So when they are giving the loans, the interest rate is on the high. So it's so much at the end of the day. And I am almost worried in my mind because I constantly ask, why do we have to talk about all of these things? Is it that these members of the National Assembly don't understand what we're faced with? Why should you be increasing that? Why should we be boring to fund the budget? Don't we have what it takes to fund our budget? And some people say there's nothing wrong in boring because that would be the next argument that we put out. There's nothing wrong in boring including developed economies are boring but what are we boring for? You talk about infrastructure. If you look at Nigeria, it travels through different parts of the country. It looks like a very big village. We talk about a village very underdeveloped. Yes, because economically... Look at the structure. There are several things. So it goes just beyond having the resources. And then you look at... What do you do with the resources? You talked about, yes, you are right. Economically, they will tell you. It makes perfect sense. That financial aid is not really a terrible thing in its own. You rightly said, what are you allocating these resources for? Overtime, we have talked and we are, like I would say, sound like a broken record because these resources are channeled towards a recurrent expenditure, short-term funds. At the end of the day, you borrow to fund severance package for the National Assembly. You borrow to pay for all the bogus expenses. At the end of the day, you cannot even fund infrastructure. You cannot allocate the required resources to education. You talk about universal basic education. And we see have lots of children out of school. So what are we saying? Who are you borrowing for? Are you borrowing for the needs of Nigerians or are you just after your own selfish interest? It is very alarming. And most times when I keep on talking about this, I just get saddened. Unless I think we should just drop it. Well, just before we drop it, it's also interesting, very important to note that according to the Nigerians' debt management office, they're saying that the next administration will inherit the public debt of $77 trillion. So let's think about it. So because every other time we think about the management of this country, it sounds like... It sounds like our children, future children's inheritance, as it is. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. I tell you people are borrowing on all of this. Now what are we leaving for our children? When you say you children, it sounds like you're leaving. There's nothing left. There's no children anywhere. That's the truth. But it's really very unfortunate. It's really very unfortunate. This is not rocket science, like I would say. It's just a basic thing. It's like saying you have like 200 naira, and then you're living beyond your means. You're spending above. You have to live a life. You're not investing. That's what we're doing. We're not investing. We're just borrowing to enjoy and to have the no one best that you have said. All right, that's as much as we can take on this particular segment of the show. It's still the breakfast and plus to be Africa. We'll be right back in a few seconds to look at the nation's education sector. Join us again.