 This week's episode is sponsored by HIF Kitchens, the number one online kitchen supply company in Scotland where you can buy your whole kitchen online with all the prices on show, no gimmicks, just straightforward good deals for high quality kitchens and appliances. You can buy your kitchen from the comfort of your own home instead of getting pestered by pushy salespeople. Check out HIF Kitchens, the number one online kitchen supplier in Scotland. I suffer from homicidal ideation. I'm always thinking about killing people. Yeah, I've been shot, I've been stabbed, I've been set on fire, I'm a well-known OG. Alfie Lewis is my best friend. He's telling people, I'm getting me dick sucked in jail. Obviously the reputation you had, Stephen, everything you've done from the 80s and 90s and the nicknames, the devil, the tax man, a lot of people are saying now that you're a grass. What is this story? Can we clear that up or is it true or is it false? It's difficult for me to talk about because it's so unpleasant. They bring back a lot of emotion. It's not emotion, it's shame. It's shame and embarrassment of how barbaric I was. Boom, we're on. And today's guests, we've got Liverpool's Stephen Fringe. First of all, Stephen, I just want to say thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. How are you, brother? I'm pretty good, you know. Pretty good. I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity. It's the power of social media, yeah, right. One of my followers was one of your followers, got in touch with me and he's hooked us up and I've seen some of your stuff, yeah, right. And they're calling you, yeah. The English Jor-O. Fantastic. Yeah, I'll keep that to any day. Any day. Let's see if we can get it up to 10 million, eh? Yeah, definitely. And you've got a very fascinating story. You own the streets of Liverpool in the 80s, 90s to earn the reputation where people call you the devil, the tax man. You've been in prison. People have tried to shoot you, set in fire. You've been a world champion kickboxer. You've got a lot of stuff going on just now with personal issues which we'll all touch on. You're very well known. I've had countless, thousands of messages for you to come on this show because I know you've been kind of not under a radar, you're kind of picking your name back up again, yeah. Well, what it is, yeah, right, is I was released from prison on the 29th of December 2016. Yeah, and when it came out, I wrote a 33-page document called Institutional Racism and Malfeas on some messy side sent it to the Prime Minister, sent it to the Justice Minister, sent it to the Home Secretary, yeah, right, because of what happened to me, yeah. So we'll go into that. But where I'd like to start is at the beginning. Yeah, now, the interesting thing about me, James, is when anybody starts off, especially those in authority in the media, they start off with 1971, when I was done for UTMV, which is the unauthorized taking of a motor vehicle. Bear in mind, I didn't learn to drive until I was 23. But I want to take it back a little bit earlier than now. I want to take it back to the 10th of December, 1965, and I'm a six-year-old kid. My mum's had a nervous breakdown, and we've ended up in care. Sorry, not in care. There's five of us. I've got two brothers and two sisters. Yeah, my three elder siblings, they look white. Me and my sister, yeah, right, look mixed-race. And they couldn't foster us at that time. So we went to a home called Menlovaveli, Utenvale Menlovaveli Child Assessment Centre. Yeah, now, I was there in the 60s. In the 80s, it was closed down as part of Operation Care. Yeah, and there was about 29 arrests. 12 people went to prison for physical and sexual abuse on children. Now, just to give you the background, because I regressed and forgot all about that childhood stuff. When I was seeing the psychiatrist after they came out of prison, he told me that I'd had some regressed memories. What brought those memories back to me, James, was February 2016 among B-wing HMP Liverpool, better known as Walton. Yeah, and my friend, an OG called Spencer Benjamin, gets a telephone call from a guy called Eddie Atta. And Eddie Atta tells him, I know that French raped this girl, and they're going to change him into the next Jimmy Savile, which means I'm going to get all kind of sex charges. Spencer comes and tells me, I'll go back to me cell, and I'm lying there. And then the memories come back to me of Walton Vale. All I could remember was it was Walton, and it was a children's home. That's all I could remember. Yeah, and it was a Christmas party. Yeah, and a celebrity came to give us presents. Yeah, and I got a red fire engine with a yellow ladder and a silver bell, and if I listened closely, I could still hear that bell. Yeah, the celebrity that gave me the fire engine, yeah, then attempted to touch me, and I smashed him in the face with the fire engine. Over his left eye, first man that I ever made bleed. Yeah, and it's in my child files. I brought my child files. I made a subject access request to Liverpool Child Services to get my files when I came onto prison. And I made a complaint to Merseyside Police. I've actually got a case number in Operation U-Tree, right, because when the police investigated it, they found I was at that home for 10 days. And on that 10-day period, Jimmy Savile was there. Yeah, and when he was there, I smashed him in the face. So what happened? Why didn't I mention this in my book? Why did I wait till I came onto prison? The memories were regressed. It was only when I went into prison and got told that I would be getting turned into Jimmy Savile that the trauma that I was going through at the time triggered the old trauma and the memories came back. Yeah, it's also in my files that I told the professionals in the service what had happened and what I'd do. And I was called a dirty little line black bastard. Yeah, and I was carted off to a home in Speek. I was given to a couple of foster parents in Speek. He was in a wheelchair, yeah, paraplegic. Yeah, right? And his wife was OK. And he had his car modified where he had a thing on the steering wheel so he could turn it. Their kick was to tie me over the Welsh dresser. Yeah, hands over the dresser, ankles over the dresser and whip me with care and wire to get me to be quiet about what was going on. Now, in the children's homes, yeah, and I like to make it clear because in the echo they say I said that I was sexually abused. I wasn't sexually abused. I was physically abused. And those that tried to sexually abuse me, yeah, it's the first one that I ever made bleed with Jimmy Savile. Now, when I broke the story in the Liverpool Daily Post in the echo when I came out to prison and I went to the police for historic stuff because I decided, James, in prison that when I came out I was going to take all these services on. I met the South Police Services, met the Cheshire Crown Prosecution Services, Liverpool Social Services, the probation services and the prison services because each and every one of them, yeah, right, abused me. But what I decided I was going to do, I was going to use the own rules, regulations, guidelines, protocols and principles, and I was going to beat them with their own stick. And I outlined this all in a 33-page document called Institutional Racism and Mouth Misfeasance on Mary's Side. So, now, this is... I've gone into this children's home, yeah, 10th of December. And they've moved me on the 23rd. Everywhere's closed down. Nobody does anything. They've moved me on the 23rd because of the incident. Then I'm on a care medical round until I'm 11, yeah. I went in as a six-year-old altar boy, yeah. I came out as a very angry young man, yeah, right. And they were the irregidents of where my violence comes from. Now, I've sought professional help since I've come back and I see a psychiatrist. I pray to see a psychiatrist once a week. Yeah, yeah. To help me work through these issues, yeah, right, of why I suffer from homicidal ideation. I'm always thinking about killing people, yeah. Now, it's the opposite of suicidal ideation. People that always want to kill themselves, yeah. This started for me, yeah, in the care homes where I developed two coping mechanisms. The first coping mechanism that I developed, yeah, right, is a time and date stamp everything because I was branded a dirty little black liar at six years of age. So I can independently verify and prove anything that I'm going to say to you, right, because that me, being a liar, is deep in my psyche. They did it to me when I was a child. And the other one was picking up a weapon and whacking people, yeah, right, and they get to leave them all. That was another coping mechanism that I developed in the care homes. Now, the second coping mechanism is violence, yeah, and that will get you into prison, yeah. But I never went to prison until I was in my 50s, yeah. I made violence pay for me. I'm 11 years of age, and I've gone back to my mum, yeah, and I'm a pretty bright kid at school, yeah, right, and I'm online to pass the 11 plus. Then comes my first interaction with Macy's side's finest. Macy's side police force, they were called then. They're now called Macy's side police service. They were the police force back then. In Chinatown in Liverpool, there's a church called the Blackie, yeah. It was a youth club. Me and my mates were on the way to the youth club. The jeep pulls up. There's a sergeant in it, yeah, yeah, and the get-outs, I've got my Parker on, I've got my monkey boots on, yeah, and we're going to the youth club. He says, what are you doing? He puts his hand in my hood and he comes out with a set of car keys, yeah, and he said, you go and equip the steel cars. I said, you put them in my hood. They were in there, yeah, and he whacked me in the mouth with a torch. The back teeth are still missing to this day. Went on the floor. Cascading with blood, yeah, right. I'm an 11-year-old kid in this couple standing over me, yeah, right, and he terrorised me, never forget him. A big... He was a jock, yeah, yeah. Ginger, green eyes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Scottish bastard. No, all couples are bastards, yeah, right. No, let's keep the language clean, yeah. So I was done for UTMV, yeah, right. It's called a yellow petal at them, yeah, right. Now, I was criminalised. Now, what people don't know, yeah, is we were first generation. Now, what's first generation? First generation British born blacks, yeah. Our parents came here after the war, yeah, the Windrush generation, yeah, to help rebuild Britain, yeah, right. Now, children of my age, we were the first ones, yeah, right, to go out into the wider community, yeah, yeah. Now, if you know how the Romanians are treated now, that's how we were treated back then, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was... We had to walk and go around in packs, yeah, right, because Toxeth was surrounded by... It was the time of the skinheads, but Toxeth was surrounded by Park Lane Boat Boys, Park Road Boat Boys, Lodge Lane Boat Boys, Air Road Boat Boys, yeah, yeah. Flemmings, Ben Shearman Shirts, Gracers, and Airwear Boots, and the sport was catching black kids and giving them a good kicking, yeah. Now, our parents were part of the Commonwealth and thought, it's the motherland, yeah. We went to school with them. We knew what it was about, yeah, and this is when the violence really started, yeah, because you've got to remember with a community under attack, there's also a government policy of the criminalisation of the black youth fast-forward a little bit to 1980, yeah, a little 10 years later, yeah, right. I'm just going to school, finishing school, left school. I've started martial arts. How was your schooling? I went to... I'm a Roman Catholic, yeah. I went to St Patrick's. Were you in trouble in school? Got expelled. Got expelled from school, yeah, yeah. Fought with teachers. Yeah, set the school on fire, yeah. Problem child. You just rebellious then because of the abuse and the racism? Problem child. No, see, here's the thing, yeah, I didn't understand what racism was, yeah, right. I didn't understand what racism was, yeah, right, but I'd beaten a man as a six-year-old child. I'd beaten a man. Yeah, right, right. So I'd just picked someone up and whack you. I didn't care who you was or what you was doing. I'd picked someone up and I'd whack you with it, yeah. And it was effective, James. You understand? I got left alone, yeah. By the time I was in the third year of the school, yeah, yeah, it's got 40 or 50, that was the cock of the school, yeah, right, because I had an aptitude for physicality, yeah, right, this was before I started martial arts. Were you big then? Were you tall and strong? I was six foot one, size 11 shoes, and 12 stone at 11. Yeah, with the start of a beard. Yeah, yeah, I was a man-child, yeah. I was very thin, yeah, yeah, but I put weight on later. I was very thin, but it was very quick, yeah. I had a very aggressive streak, yeah, yeah, right, and it was the start, you've got to take it on the geopolitical platform of what was happening in America, yeah, right. Malcolm X has just died, yeah. It's black, it's beautiful, it's black power, it's Angela Davis, it's the soul dad brothers, yeah, right. It's weird and black girls, it's Tommy Smith at the Olympics, yeah, yeah, they're doing that, yeah, right. So black people are starting to find defeat. Now, I've had a lot of black Africans and white Europeans tell me I'm not black. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, because the term for us then was half-chat, half-breed or half-cast, yeah, I ain't half of anything. Yeah, yeah, right, and it used to say, it used to, to say, so as a mature man, I asked this question, why is it that a man can legally change his gender, identify as a woman, it's accepted, they'll even give him an award on TV, yeah, but if I as brown identify as black, it's not so accepted. Maybe it's because Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn Jenner, was a white man, became a white woman, yeah, and society understands gender better than they do race. That's just my own personal take on it. Why do you think that is? I believe that race is a social construct, yeah, I believe, because if you see children play, they don't know anything, I believe race and racism is socially constructed, yeah, right, it goes back and see, see, I want to move forward, yeah, because they say stop harping on about the history, stop harping on about the past, move forward, yeah, but what you've got to remember, moving forward isn't a one-way street, it's a dual carriageway, so everybody's got to move forward. If you want us to stop talking about what happened in the past, stop celebrating your history in our faces, yeah, right, because it makes it impossible to move on. I don't even think it's in the past anymore, Stephen, because the whole world's in protest just now with things that are going on, so do you think much has changed from when you were getting from the 70s and 80s to now? Let me explain it to you, I loved it in the 70s, yeah, do you know why I loved it in the 70s? Why? Because the racism was over it, yeah, you used to stamp around like a monster, yeah, you could see it, they'd come up and tell you, you're a black twat, you're a black cunt, you knew where you stood, but now the racism hides in the reeds and bushes of political correctness, yeah, it's gone covariant on the ground, the real sneaky abadi, yeah, if we're allowed, yeah, I'll play you some, my phone number was put online, and if it doesn't jeopardize what we're doing, yeah, I'll play you 7, 8, 9, 10 racist messages that I received when my phone number was put on. When was this? Summer, August 2017, my phone was put online, yeah, right, but let's stay chronological, yeah, right, because I've got a lot, a lot of stuff that I want to clear up, yeah, now, and just to clarify on the race stuff, yeah, when I was a young man, I hated white people with a passion, I had a white mother, yeah, right, but it was just the way it was, blacks were with blacks, whites were with whites, and we fought, yeah, as a mature man, yeah, I feel like all of that I hated, yeah, I've rejected hate, darkness, and despair for the philosophy of love, light, and hope, yeah, that's what I signed my post with, yeah, right, that's my own personal philosophy because I've got a racist bone in my body anymore, because I can point out racism doesn't make me a racist, yeah, right, now, I've always known that the racism isn't my problem, which brings me back to the point that I was making to you, yeah, which was when I'm 20 in Liverpool, the chief constable is a guy called Ken Oxford, now, Ken Oxford goes in the BBC Listener magazine, and he says, individuals like me are the result between liaisons with white prostitutes, yeah, I'm black African seaman, and my mom and dad were married, yeah, right, that was the trigger, yeah, that tipped the scales with the start of the, and it wasn't a riot in Toxet, Toxet wasn't even Toxet then, it was the Salt End, we wear the Salt End shines, yeah, right, it became Toxet after the riots, now, what's going on in the area, you've got the criminalization of a whole class of people, yeah, the sus floors, yeah, yeah, stop, the fit-ups were off the chart, yeah, yeah, right, so it was a criminalization of the first generation British spawn blacks, yeah, right, right, I don't do it, I don't say this for sympathy, I don't say this for, I say it matter of factly, that's what went on, yeah, because seeing me, racism's never been a problem for me, racism's always been the racist problem, yeah, okay, the first time I left school, yeah, I was in all the teams, athletic, I was in football team, cricket team, swimming team, I was in all the, sorry, I was in the swimming team, I was in all the teams, yeah, and we would go and play and speak, yeah, so going from where our school was in the South End, to going to speak, it's like going into Shoshone country, it's like going into Bandit country if you're black, yeah, and loads of, me and Mark Buckley, loads of times, yeah, yeah, we got chased from Tingos, then Paddington Comp was the Protestant black school, and we had an interfaith competition with them, and because all the white kids were going to play at Paddington, they laid on a minibus, yeah, so when they laid on a minibus, yeah, I ripped up my jersey and beat up the PE teacher, yeah, yeah, because I'd been getting chased for weeks and weeks, I've got a spell for that, Pat Sherry, the teacher's name was, yeah, now these little incidences, these little infractions, yeah, yeah, yeah, are starting to build the violence inside me, starting to build me wanting to use violence to sort out my problems, yeah, yeah, right, because it was, because it worked for me. Now, I had a friend who was murdered in 1990 when I was in prison, his name was Andrew John, yeah, yeah, right, he was big like me, yeah, tore fast, we were the martial arts together, and we were blood brothers, yeah, and we used to egg each other on something terrible, and we were on Selborn Street, sorry, Mulgrave Street outside the Caribbean centre, Leroy Cooper was there, Ivan Freeman was there, yeah, and he arrested Leroy on his bike for nothing, yeah, and that was the spark, now me and Andrew used to give each other a look, yeah, and he gave me the look, and I gave him the look, yeah, and we attacked two coppers, that was the start of the toxic riots, and the only person that really knows that is Leroy Cooper, he was in the van, and Ivan Freeman and me, yeah, and it went like, it just went like wildfire from there. On the right, so was that when 500 people were injured, 500 police were injured? Listen. All the Bowden's burnt? Listen, yeah, yeah, right, so 21 years of age, yeah, and why I'm back, why I'm back to 1966, yeah, and it's the World Cup, and Pele is playing at Godison, yeah, he's playing for Brazil, yeah, at Godison, and my uncle Jimmy is taking me to these flats, yeah, right, to buy tickets off this geezer to go and watch the match, and I'm looking up at the house, I can see it now, and there's a sign, and the sign says, no blacks, sorry, no Irish, no blacks, no dogs, and my half white, half black Irish kid with a dog called Patch, fully in it, yeah, but that was my reality, and my uncle Jimmy knocked the geezer out, we didn't go and see the match, he knocked the geezer out because he said he wasn't selling the tickets to black kids. On the corner there's the Rialto, yeah, in the Rialto they have a dance, they have a colour bar, yeah, yeah, now the Conservatives party, the poster, if you want to f*** for the neighbour, vote Labour, have you ever read that poster? No. I've seen them, I've seen them in my lifetime, so I won't have nothing to do with Conservatives, if you want to f*** for the neighbour, vote Labour, yeah, posters in the black community, this is the kind of stuff that we were under. But the scary thing, this wasn't so long ago. Listen, listen, it's my lifetime, you understand, what I'm telling you is, look, I'm 60 years old now, so to some people it's a long time ago, to me, it was yesterday, yeah, now, and the racism is still... Do you think all those chain events, seeing all that, seeing the mental torture, it's a sense of bullying and everything that comes with it, is that where you got your rage and your anger? Listen, it's like this, yeah, so I'm the youngest of five, yeah, two brothers, two sisters, and anybody who's got two brothers and two sisters and the youngest, they'll tell you, you get done in off your brothers and sisters, you get me, you used to just get done in off your sisters, I used to get done in terrible off my sister, right? So I became impervious to get them to licks, you get me, I became to be able to think when I was getting hit, you understand? Most people, when they get hit, they're not hit, they're shocked, because they're not used to it, this is why martial arts, this is why martial arts is hitting each other, this is why you're smart, you're used to getting hit, so you can still function and think when you've took a shot, yeah. So the militancy came from the oppression, yeah, and the oppression came mainly from the police, yeah, and then as all young men, yeah, your balls drop, yeah, and you're full of testosterone, and you want to hit back, it's natural, if you look in wildlife, when the young stags become teenagers, they just start running on each other, butting each other, it's a natural progression of stuff, so that's what happened. So with me, yeah, the anger was linked, the violence was building up in me, yeah, with what was happening in the self-end, with what was going on, it wasn't like it was unique to me, it was for all of us, you understand? What is, did you start kickboxing? Excellent question, because this is what I was going to come to. Enter Bruce Lee, yeah, 1973, and the Kung Fu craze kicks off, and I had a couple of friends, Lee Daly was my friend, Kelvin Alain was my friend, yeah, right, and they was going to a karate club in Lodgling, yeah. So I tagged along, yeah, and Ronnie, yeah, and Ronnie says to me, and I'm still at school, Ronnie Cowell's my instructor, he's passed away now. Is that your sense, eh? Yeah, he's my instructor. He was mega, though, he changed world champions. Listen, listen, listen, founding father of Bruce, Terry O'Neill, Andy Sherry, Bob Pointon, Ronnie Cowell, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're the guys that brought karate to this country, and yeah, yeah, right now. You called him your father at one point? I get to that, I get that, because this is odd introduction to each other. Kelvin and Lee have taken me up to the karate club, and I've seen Bruce Lee films and I'm watching, yeah, and he says, he comes out and he says to me, do you want a train? Yeah, now I won't take anything off nobody, you understand? And I said, I can't train because I've got no money. Yeah, yeah, he says, you can train for nothing. Why do you want to give me something for nothing? Anyway, he started to let me train. Did you get suspicious of some of the jobs that helped you? Yes, yes, yes, very, from the care homes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually 40 per cent nonce. Yeah, yeah, he wanted to help me. Yeah, yeah, so he takes me to one side at about six months. Yeah, and he says to me, you've got something inside you young man. He said, and I'm going to do two things for you. I'm going to bring it out of you and make you, or I'm going to try and bring it out of you and it's going to break you. Now, I was forged in the fire of his iron will. He had an iron will. He taught me about will, he taught me about willpower. Yeah, and about mindset and about not giving up, you understand? But he was the first person outside of family to ever really take an interest in me. Yeah, yeah, 30 years later, I call him a white father. Yeah, I've got a black dad and I've got a white pops. I christened them pops. Yeah, it's five foot ten, maybe eleven stone, the most deadliest man I've ever met. Yeah, he trained the ACS. Yeah, yeah, yeah, most deadliest man I've ever met. Yeah, yeah, and he was training killers. He was teaching us all this stuff. Yeah, and then me and Andrew, this is where the taxing comes from. This is where the taxing comes from. Do you remember the urinals, public urinals when you go down the stairs? Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they had those urinals on Princes Avenue by Princes Park. Yeah, and it's where the f**ks used to go. Yeah, it's where the gay people used to go. Yeah, it's where the gay people used to go to Kong and Gates. Yeah, but this is like with 70s homosexuality is illegal. You understand? They can't go to the police. They can't do anything. So it was the perfect crime. Me and Andrew, we used to beat them up and take the watches and that was the start of our street robbery and that was the start of the taxing, taking stuff from people that couldn't report it to the police. This was the canal, the seed. The catalyst. Yeah, yeah, that grew there. Yeah, the police used to come to the s**t and then it made the paper that the people would be unrobbed. Yeah, and people would come up to them and kicking them in the head, just standing there. So eventually the police turned up at the dojo. Dojo was the train hall. Yeah, they turned up at the dojo and he says, he says, we believe it's your lads doing this. Ronnie, you staunch, he says, my lads would never ever do that. Yeah, so now, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's starting to give me an area of my life that I've remained true to. Yeah, right, because I've got martial arts brothers. Yeah, yeah, Kazuna brothers all over the world. I've got them in America. I've got them in Ireland. I've got them in Sweden. Yeah, right, I'm known all over the world for my martial arts. Yeah, because I was really good. Yeah, I was really good in the competitions and martial artists don't really have racism. The true martial artists, yeah, they see pastola, you understand? Yeah, and there's a camaraderie that's unbelievable. There's a brotherhood, yeah. See, Kazuna means bond. It's more than a brotherhood, you understand? And this is what he instilled in us. Yeah, he's a white guy in Tuxediv, teaching black kids martial arts. Fantastic. See, when you channeled all that, Stephen, when you're not trying to get taught to not have violence outside of martial arts, everything should be kept in so you train or fight. But do you think because of the hell you suffered younger that you channeled both things outside and inside? I'll answer that this way, James. There's three people, there's three types of people that go to martial arts. Yeah, there's the Dweeb, who thinks it's going to give him something to help himself and get him somewhere he's got. He can become a gym tiger, but he just hasn't got that courage to fight. Yeah, there's the guy that likes it for the aesthetics and the sport and the camaraderie of it. And then there's the guy that wants to know how to crunch and break people up. Yeah, I was that guy, you understand? And he used to give me special lessons with regards to street karate and what techniques, not sport, but what techniques to mess people up. I'll give you an example. My son's mother is a girl called Maria. She had a boyfriend called Glenn. Glenn Cormor used to terrorize the South End. Now Tony, my elder brother, we called him the Gorgon because you could fight like you had snakes in his head. Glenn stabbed Tony and beat Tony when I was 11. We were all terrified of Glenn. They went away, him and Tony Showers went away for killing somebody. And I ended up getting with that. Yeah. And he came out. And when he came out, he put it on me. He came and seen me, 20. And he was a man and he put it on me. And I bitched it out. Yeah, I bitched it out. I went on, turned all the lights off and I'm thinking, I'm a punk, I'm a punk, I'm a coward, I'm a punk, I'm a punk. Yeah. So I go and see Ronnie. And I say, Ronnie, he's a madman. What do you do when you fight with a madman that's just going to keep coming? What do you think you do with a madman that just keeps coming? You take away his ability to keep coming. You don't have to kill him to do that. Again, you can put his legs up on the curb and break his legs. You can break his arms, you can break his fingers. Yeah, you can lay him in traction. Yeah. I went and found him in the nightclub. Yeah, jumped on the table, run along the table, volleyed him straight in the face, bowing in his body. Yeah. That was the start of my reputation because he had the place, terrorized and I beat him when I was 20. Yeah, yeah, right? He did fright me. He did fright me. But when I faced that demon, when I faced that fear and I conquered that fear, something clicked inside me. Yeah, I went from a boy to a man, you understand? Yeah, a man with confidence in his own abilities. Yeah, and the fearless nature, the fearless streak of my nature began to develop. Yeah, it began to develop. Yeah, and it's it's it lends itself, the martial arts lends itself to it. It gives you the confidence, it gives you the ability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have the success of that. Yeah, then there was the riots. Yeah, what happened with the police now? Here's the interesting part about the riots. Yeah, there's a main thoroughfare called Parliament Street. Yeah, and if you go up, if you go down Parliament Street to Windsor Street, if you turn left, yeah, you go to the police station. Yeah, and an atmosphere police station. If you turn right, you go into the city centre. Yeah, all the lads that were getting involved in it, we went to the police station and wrecked the police station. The white lads had the dead screwed up and went to the way and got all the stuff. Yeah, but we'd started the riots. When me and Andrew found out that these lads had all the washing machines, the washing machines, the fridges, all that stuff, we went and took them off them. You understand? This was the start of the taxing, taking things off people. Yeah, now people that have a go at me for taxing people and robbing people. This is what I tell them, James. I modeled myself on the British Empire. Taking things from people that wasn't strong enough to hold on to them and keeping them for myself. Yeah, I was like Sir Walter Raleigh, but I didn't have a cape. Yeah, so I used to justify anything that I did. Yeah, I could justify any behaviours that I had. Yeah, right, by an intellectual argument. Yeah, in hindsight, I just wanted the money. You understand? The highlight of the riots is we forced them down from the Charles Wilton censor that's at the top. Yeah, Winsor Street's at the bottom. It's about half a mile. And we forced them back. Yeah, they called in for reinforcements from St. Helens, from Wigan, and they weren't ready for the ferocity of it because it was an eruption. You understand? It was an eruption and you set the city on fire. Yeah, and when you see those that have oppressed you for so long, taking flight and running, it's better than sex. Yeah, I related it to and they printed this in the echo of something. Yeah, the Zulu's at Rockstrift. He was walking around with Sergeant's jacket on. Yeah, and policemen's helmet on. You understand? Yeah, right? Because we were liberated. We actually liberated ourselves. Did that feel like a victory for you? Massive. Listen, it's hard for me to describe you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bo, it's like if you watch a battle, yeah, if you watch Braveheart, yeah, and you see them in the heated battle and then the scientist realises it's on top of the chain and run and they all get down. Yeah, look at that. It's that. You understand? Because it was a pitch-ball, man. Yeah, I remember the kid Darryl Jenkins with the shovel splitting people with the shovel. Yeah, so... And this was the corpors? Listen, how one person died? Yeah? It was a lad called Davey Moore, because what happened was how did he disrupt the rights and how they finally finished it? Was CS Gas was used for the very first time on the British mainland. It only being used in Northern Ireland and to stop us what we were doing. They actually used CS Gas at a man called Phil Robbo. He got shot in the chest with it. On the calluses, it says, do not fire at people and they were shooting them at us. You understand? And it was the gas that finished the rights off. Yeah? The judges' racket club got wrecked. All they all got took out a day. There was millions and millions of pounds worth of damages. Because then, Liverpool 8 became a no-go area. Yeah? The police couldn't come... The police were reluctant to come into Liverpool 8. Yeah? 81, 82. Now, do you know the history of of the drugs in Liverpool? Yeah. Do you know what started off with African semen and weed? No. Well, I'll tell you the actual history. The geopolitical of history of drugs. Yeah? African semen used to just bring ganja. Yeah? Used to come on the African boat. Did you harsh that thing or was it weed? No, it was bushweed. It was bushweed. Yeah? Here's his interest in the sidebar. Yeah? There was a barber called Lord Woodbine. Yeah? Lord Woodbine. The Beatles statue. Yeah? And you look under the shoe of the Beatles statue of John Lennon. It's got an 8 for L8. Yeah? Because I don't know where he used to go to buy his weed. He used to go to Lord Woodbine's barbershop to buy his weed. Yeah? Right? And he used to come... And the Beatles music was influenced by black culture. Yeah? Right? Like Elvis Presley. Exactly the same as Elvis Presley. Yeah? Right? But they crossed over. And... I don't say that with any jealous or any... It's not right. That's just the way it was, man. You understand? The Beatles did what they did. Yeah? So, it started off with weed. Then the dockers, Taka Comford and such, that the docks were just open. Yeah? And then we had... It was heroin at first. You understand? It was... Turkish heroin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the dockers were doing it. And they made millions. This was before anybody knew what was going on. Yeah? Mid-80s moving on. Yeah? Then Charlie comes in. And you've got weed. You've got brown. You've got white. Yeah? And you've got a no-go area. You've got somewhere where the police don't want to go. So that becomes the distribution centre. You understand? And everybody starts to grow like redwoods. But you've got to know who's who. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the guys, yeah, was keeping everything to themselves. Yeah, right? So it happened this way. Um... There was... There was a colour bar in the city. I started a security firm. Scorpio Security Services. And there was a colour bar. They never slept black lads into the clubs. So me and Andrew and a few other lads took over the doors. Yeah, I started letting black lads into the clubs. And I've got a security firm now. And a lad comes to me and he says to me, I've been Robb's day. Yeah, and if you get... If you get it back for me, yeah, I'll give you X amount of money. Of cocaine, kilo of cocaine. Yeah, so he wants to give me 10 grand. I know caters, I've found caters. And caters tells me, that's where it fit 30, 40,000 pounds. That's countless one. Yeah, that's where 30, 40,000 pounds. Steven. Yeah. So then that kid had a partner. Yeah. I don't want to dwell on the drug stuff. Yeah, yeah. But the problems came when the crack came. You understand? Is that in the 80s? The late 80s going on. Yeah, when Casus was doing what he was doing. And then the city's just awash with it. And you see weed. Everybody's mellow. Brown. Everybody's his own doubt. Charlie. Everybody's like that. You understand? That had its its effect. See when you were doing the kickboxing, Steven, you became British champion, European champion, world champion. Did you enjoy just beating people up with the gene? Was it fun for you? Did you get a sense of a good feeling, a buzz? See, see, here's the thing, right? I lanes to carp, mentalize, to put things into different boxes. Now I'm a security boss I'm at university I'm a karate champion because I'm pulled every which way. I don't know whether I'm Malcolm X or Martin Luther King or Billy the Kid. You understand? Because I'm in everything. You understand? Now I went to Liverpool University What were you studying? Studying sociology and psychology, got a two on. Was that to try and battle your demons from the past? No, you see. You see. Inside me, James, right, there's a dichotomy of light and dark. Yeah, and it's all about choices. Yeah. Because I was fortunate enough to go to university. Yeah, and I could have gone down that road. Yeah, of getting a steady job and doing what I was doing. Yeah. But I was juggling too many balls. Yeah, right. And then the Lord of the Easy Money being young and being greedy. Yeah. I went down a criminal path. Yeah, because ... Did you get a buzz from it? Because if you were doing uni, world champion, at that time, nobody really knew what was going on. You understand? I was under cover. Yeah, nobody because I realized early on if you're going to sell drugs or you're going to be involved in the drug world, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could have something else. Yeah, right. That's where your money's coming from. You understand? Because so many, so many lads, yeah, yeah. I drive around in 30 grand cars and signing on. Yeah, you're not going to get anywhere with that. This is why this is why I never went to prison. You understand? This is why I never went to prison until I was in my 50s. And the reason why I went to prison in my 50s is I got hooked on cocaine and it addled in my brain. You understand? I stopped thinking smart. Yeah, right, because Are you taking drugs in your 20s, 30s or 40s? Listen, listen. I've always smoked weed. Yeah, I smoked weed. I never used to drink, but I'd have a reefer. No tobacco. Just pure green? Just weed. Yeah, and I learned that from Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee used to just smoke marijuana. That's it? Listen, there's nothing wrong with green beans. Yeah, I smoked it for 12 years. Yeah, yeah. Now, I have a split occasionally, yeah, right. I have a drink, but December this year and five years cocaine free. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Yeah, right. It cost me everything that drug. You understand? Turn me into a fucking turn me into the devil. No, no, no, the devil come before the coke. You understand? The devil got the money. The devil got the money. Yeah, the devil got the power. Yeah, get the money, get the power. Then you get the gales. You understand? You're right. And it's a recipe. You're right. And then it's like it's very, it's very I don't really like talking about it. You're right, but I've agreed to talk about it. You're right, because it's part of who was you're right, right. But when I look back on it and when I look at it, I feel ashamed. Yeah. And I feel ashamed. Because of the devastation that I helped create. Yeah, yeah. Now, see one of the reasons why I became an anti-gun campaign right until a pistol whips up and became a hypocrite I'll talk about that too. Yeah, yeah. Was okay. You haven't met me yet. You haven't met me. But when you meet me and anything fucking at least big it in everybody says it. And then when you turn up you're huge. So your man there's got a kilo of coconut in the bed. He's 12 stone and what I am, how's he going to stop me? How's he going to stop me? You have to get himself an equalizer. You understand? So along with the crack along with the robin of the drug dealers came the firearms and I I hold my hand up to my parts in that you understand? Because people have been to did have a draw with a little bit of money in that if I turned up you could give me that but did have the problem when he stole because I was that prolific what I was doing yeah so and then How many times were you doing it per week? Stephen, how many times? Listen, it doesn't work like that James you get me what happens is you and him have got a graft yeah and you might be doing whatever you are doing and it's a falling out yeah and you have him over yeah and he's not happy but you're you're too much at him so you know that saying information is more valuable than gold they come to me with the information this is what he's done to me this is there that comes then this is what's happening yeah yeah and you might have a job once in three months you might have three jobs in a week but it's always big money what's the most you took out one job? most of the big money I'd rather not say James and the reason why I don't want to say I've had a lot of problems with the taxman yeah it's funny they called you the taxman well that's what it became yeah right but CC it's as old as the hills I didn't invent it what did you do when you went into people's houses what was the plan did you go through their door did you chap their door listen see and explain this to Danny and I'll explain it to you yeah the last thing I want to do is leave physical marks on you it's the last thing I want to do because physical marks on you you've got something to show the police you can concoct some story you came to buy a car you can concoct some story and because it's me the police will believe it you understand so my back was psychological terror you understand and it all comes from the psychology it's like when I whispered to Danny you understand what happened to him now it's like okay James you can keep that bottle of water or you can give it to me yeah whatever way this is going I'm having that water now you can handle over freely or it can make your life really really uncomfortable I can do things to you I'll never forget and I'm cold and I'm calculated and I'll have no fucking problem doing to you you understand and it's did that work 100% of the time or do you ever get people standing up and going fuck off violence was used yeah see you can't you can't make a threat and then not carry it out if it comes to that you understand now here's the thing I'll give you an example of it you know Pierce Morgan yeah he lost his job in the Daily Minute yeah right is he tapping phones or something no no no the fake photographs right well he was working with Graham Johnson at that time and they brought the photographs to me yeah yeah right and he said what do you think of these photographs he said the fake it goes out you know the fake cause there's no fear in them you understand there's no sweat yeah yeah yeah right when people are frightened these secret all kind of stuff you understand and I warned them and they run them it's it's difficult for me to talk about cause it's so unpleasant to bring back a lot of emotion it it's not emotion it's shame it's shame an embarrassment of how barbaric I was cause if anyone who does gear a majority of people are cardboard gangsters anyway but there's always one or two who goes fuck him I'm going to get my revenge because you've had six or seven attempts on your life was that because of what you've done there's a reason why lions in the jungle don't eat the lions you understand there's a reason why lions eat the sick as hell hanging out you understand and get on that because the possibility of repercussions are limited now I applied my intelligence to everything and it sounds like I'm a bully but at the heart at the center of every bully is a coward I know that I'm not a coward you understand I know what I'm capable of the situations I've been in and how I've got out of them so I know that I'm not a coward but I'm very calculated and I was very calculated with it with what I did then also my psychiatrist told me I had a death wish that I didn't care if I lived or died because of the risks I took and because of the things that I was doing yet right it was wanting abandonment for my own life yeah and this is the fantastic part yeah right that all relates to the childhood trauma it's all manifested yeah it's all manifested now it might be clouded yeah right or it might be hidden by what's the cash like this yeah what's the cash like this but it's all based in self loathing you understand the pain we're still there it doesn't matter how much money you made listen listen listen I had more money it was incredible yeah I could buy a 100 grand I could go and buy a 100 grand and not be broke so the cash was unbelievable yeah and with that comes an attitude yeah right but I wasn't happy man I was empty you understand yeah soulless yeah a dry land shark yeah I've got nowhere near what I had yeah right but I'm more content now I like myself more now all the external stuff bigger house, bigger car more money to try and fulfill a void listen here's the thing yeah yeah billionaires commit suicide yeah million percent yeah billionaires commit suicide so money makes things easier I'm not gonna say money doesn't make things easier that's a ridiculous statement to me right it can't buy you true happiness yeah I'll tell you something you know the happiest thing I ever did what's that give me the most joy wanna let me door to go in the swimming pool and she could finally swim cause of the entrance into the swimming pool yeah now that's retrospectively yeah looking back with all the head you understand in the dynamics of the moment which brings me back to the point that I want to make and maybe you can edit this into it get it right inside me there's a dichotomy of lightning dog right and wrong cause my mum went to work she told us about what was right and what was wrong wrong choices cause when she dies but as a single mother with five kids all the different colours of the rainbow she kept us together you understand and I knew the difference between right and wrong this is why I talk about change powered by choice cause I made I made some bad choices yeah the the hard and the financial reward papered over the cracks of the bad choices do you understand what I mean by that yeah you're right and what you've got to remember is everything I'm discussing with you now is retrospectively at that time I didn't think like that at that time I was angry or wicked and I'd say evil or the evil person how did you get the name the devil how did that come about see see this is a story that's quite interesting and it's quite remarkable too because a lot of people think I hate white people yeah they think I'm a racist and I can't stand white people and I only used to rob white people and it just happened that the white people had all the drugs yeah so anyway I've got a sister called Carol she's passed away now yeah and she she was married to a white guy from the north end of Liverpool Scotty Road called Tosh yeah now Tosh bought Carol at hairdressers late 80s he renovated right in the heart of Toxford High Park Street Liverpool 8 and he's renovating it and the guy who was the devil before me yeah it was a Sunday and he was sleeping off the Saturday night and our Tosh is working away in the place yeah he's woke up yeah it's come out of all the white season of the sun he's racially abused him now our Tosh is in a punk but he's gone home our Carol she never never called on me and her brothers but she was so upset she phoned me and told me yeah I rounded them up I had them within the hour he apologised to her so emphatic was my victory over this guy yeah who was a demon he was the devil that the name passed to me yeah right from him it passed to me and then when I became devil yeah right and then I was doing devilish stuff wicked evil stuff people were getting bad stuff done to them yeah right if the psychology didn't work the violence would work I'm not going to be graphic about it yeah right but it's documented yeah right so I'm trying to move away from it but it's part of my history so Graham Johnson comes and finds me for something I want to write a book I want to call a book tall dark and dangerous it's a play on tall dark and handsome yeah he does his research and he speaks to a few people and they say to him he's the devil that man's a devil he's always beat the devil and he became the devil he comes back to me he says to me we need to call the book the devil I said don't want to call the devil I said let's call it they call them the devil he said he said to me no and he talked me into it and he turned out he was right he wrote ten books the devil saw more than all of them put together I don't know who's the title yeah I explain to it because I'm a Christian and I explain in the book I believe in the Trinity it's a generic devil it's not the devil it's not Lucifer it's not saint it's a genetic term in terms of like the red devils or he's a wicked devil but there was a period in my time a period in my life where I bought into it and I understand yeah where I bought into it and reveled in it and you may sense me pensive talking about it because I'm embarrassed over it I'm embarrassed over it I've tried to move away from that and I've tried to reinvent myself as a fighting preacher you understand people are drawn to that name it's catchy whatever it is the negative part of it the drawn to it and it's affected my children your dad's the devil you understand now when I was the devil I didn't have kids yeah if you're going to be a G if you're going to be a gangster don't have no children my daughter my son's had to live with my shadow you're right he couldn't my daughter is probably educated and I kept it away from everything nobody even knew I had a daughter she was about 16 she's had a lot of pressure over it so I'm alienated from my children because of my past now I don't get the flak nobody comes up to me and says to me you're black I don't get racially abused on the phone and not to my face keyboard warriors not to my face because I'm a lion aren't I you don't go and pull a lion by the tail so I don't see all that but it's been difficult for them especially with me being so high profile especially when we being on the TV and doing what I was doing because the idea I was on Paradise Island in the Indian Ocean when I decided about writing a book selling it making only 25 million quid to open up the Andrew John Memorial Skill Sensor a sensor that knows no race, no creed, no background to teach our young men skills so they can provide for themselves and their families what else happens to do the things that I did you're right because I'm like this I've never never in my life James said please help me my poor black boy and put me handouts I'm from the school of Malcolm self help all this crying I don't want no handouts of nobody we'll do it ourselves it was nefarious the way I made my money but if you want to get serious the hope this is all he has built on nefarious money everybody everybody's got a story Joe Kennedy the Kennedys bootlegger yeah wanted to buy a chain of cinemas the guy wouldn't sell him the cinemas he got a girl to accuse him of rape accused the guy of rape he went to jail, he bought the cinemas and the rest is history the woman confessed on a deathbed yeah right so people can't point the finger at me yeah I know too much you understand I've got the answers for it like when people say to me I'm taking off people I say tell the queen to give back the coin or the diamond the Indian people want it back she's got it in the middle of her crown you want me to give my money back tell her to give theirs all the stuff you've been through in your life and now that you touched on the rape thing you were charged with rape let's touch on that because obviously there's a lot of question marks you got a knock guilty but what was going through it I've never actually got a knock guilty it got stopped before trial so the case got thrown out? yeah it got stopped before trial it should never have got out of the police station yeah the situation with that and I have to be very careful because she who cannot be named has an amenity for life my accuser has an amenity for life I can't even lay a crumb down that may lead back to here otherwise I'll be in trouble yeah what I can say is I've been with hundreds of women both black and white and she was a white girl yeah now the establishment loses its mind when they take a dirty s*** that's raped a white girl we've been getting lynched bans for looking at white girls for hundreds of years I say that matter factly I don't say it to say I'm getting picked on because I'm black that's not what I'm saying historically this is the way it's been yeah I got another girl pregnant yeah I was scheduled to have an abortion yeah I didn't want a baby with this girl when I was with Charlie I'd stick my dick in a can of whims yeah there was no way I wanted to have a baby with this girl then my daughter yeah fell pregnant she took me to Manchester for my birthday and she told me she was pregnant and I've always had this dichotomy of right and wrong I want to be a good guy I want to be a bad guy so Abbey said I'm having a baby dad so then James had a crisis of conscience I'm celebrating the birth of a grandchild and I'm organising a birth of this child yeah an abortion for this other child so I changed my mind yeah and the girl that accused me of rape yeah didn't want a girl to have a baby to me yeah and I told her that the girl was having an abortion yeah but then I changed my mind and I didn't tell her that I changed my mind and the reason why I didn't tell her that I changed my mind is I didn't know whether the baby was mine so what I was going to do is when the baby was born have a DNA test if it's my baby, take responsibility for it if it's not my baby, no harm, no foul somebody contacts she cannot be named and says the abortion hasn't taken place she then proceeds to go follow me round and go for two days trying to get me to give her the crack yeah at a location that I can't name all I can say is it wasn't my house all I can say is we were in a couple and she didn't live with me but at a location where we were and she was trying to get me to discuss what was going on but I was refusing to talk about it I'm on licence for the pistol whipping she spits at me jumps down the stairs and says I'm getting you sent back to jail you wait gets on the phone, phones the police and says it just keeps beating me just keeps beating me just keeps beating me yeah now like I said I'm 17 stone, 6 foot 3 no physical injuries no injuries whatsoever she goes into the police station and she she says yes I want them recalling to prison enter dc4a49lucineal yeah and she says has he ever sexually assaulted you she says no she comes onto the police station she contacts me I won't speak to her on the phone I won't speak to her she contacts me yeah she says I'm sorry I was drunk I shouldn't have done this I'll go to the police I tell them that it was a mistake I said listen girl you've gone to the old bill about me it's done never want to see it again in my life if you go to the old bill once you'll go to them again she goes back and tells them that I raped her but the seed was planted in her head by the old bill yeah I get recalled to prison I get questioned on the 20th there's an e-mail that she sent me on the e-mail she says rigorous honesty please you told me you took the slug for an abortion yeah that's a race hate crime I was saying that's the only crime she's calling me that's a motive yeah right the police officer beddies that information for five months sits on it for five months the recordings there's a voice recording yeah a lad that's connected is in the house when she's on the phone she says to the lad if you don't stop her doing what she's doing I'll take it up with you and all the men in your family stop her doing what she's doing he says that's a threat to they say that's a threat to kill but it's all on the tape recording but the recording goes missing because you did it on recording that's the threats on tape I've got them I've got them watch what we can do now yeah right now the hidden hand or the rogue elements of freemason police officers in the will command team there's a chance to get me good on and they join league with here Maisie and Cheshire CPS Siobhan Blake is the head of that yeah on a strength of her word no physical evidence no other evidence whatsoever they say rape she says she was raped two weeks before Christmas two weeks before Christmas two fifteen she can't remember what day it is now she can't say what day it is because I could be in a different city I've got a house in Liverpool I've got a house in London so she says two weeks before Christmas it turns out that I had sexual contact with her on Friday the 11th of December we had sexual contact yeah right so they question me over that Friday yeah now because the stuff that I can't tell you because of money situations and what she said regarding money yeah and what my bank statement shows a statement is proved to be lying so there was a charge of controlling behaviour through finances but they had to drop the charge of controlling behaviour through finances now this is a technical part when you go when you get charged with something it has to go under CPS 4.2 yeah evidence and likelihood evidence and likelihood of conviction yeah right if there's no likelihood of conviction there's no charge now a statement is already proven to be tarvelising but they're going to rely on air weird on the rape and they're going forward with it I say to my solicitor there's no way that I can go to trial and live with people on this he says you shouldn't even be charged I said they're stitching me up if I go to trial on this yeah they're going to put a probation officer on the jury a police officer on the jury or they're going to put somebody to rig the jury on me and I'm going to get found guilty I've got to stop this before trial I'm arguing with them arguing with them then I get advanced disclosure five months later I get the email and I get mentions of the tape yeah so I've got a barista called Dominic Thomas guy with one eye patch fantastic barista from London yeah I said to him I want to go for the discontinuance I want to have an abusive process hearing yeah and I want to get this case kicked out he says you've got no chance of that I said I know I just want to get this evidence before the judge because they're keeping me suppressed he says I don't think you should do that I said you sucked and I did it myself so I had the abusive process hearing I bring up the email I say here's the email I bring up the stuff about money's commands on my account I said you're not talking about it this is what you need to do because this case isn't going any forward Judge Dennis Watson QC he says yes Mr French the email constitutes a race hate crime but you're still going to answer the charges because he was especially selected judge to railroad this case they're my subjective views but that's what was going on in there so I'm arguing with this man he doesn't like me and I don't like him yeah but I get the suppressed evidence in court now on that day when I had the abusive process hearing every other day the papers had been in on that day they never let the newspapers in because they knew it was a bogus case on the 29th September they send the letter to me and they say well throw the rape out if he holds his hands up to the threats to kill the whole case should go the whole case should go yeah right now I've got a decision to make do I hold my hands up to threats to kill that I never made or do I run a whole trial yeah I get all the power on Martini he's a separate solicitor that knows what's going on go Steven they're out for you he says if you want to give you three for threats to kill I'm telling you take it you don't want to get rape on your record yeah he says the fix is in he's in in the the fraternity and he's my mate and he's telling me the fix is in do you want they're going to do whatever they need to do to get you do you want something off 13th of October I say to Judge Dennis Watson give me a good year of indication give me because I'm indicted I'm indicted for threats to kill as an indictable offence I can get four years for it and I want to know what he wants to give me because I've only got three months left on my license so I want to know what he wants to give me he says no I'm not giving you the good year of indication so let's go to trial then because you're not slamming me on a thing yo and they take me back downstairs in the cells then they come back down to me we'll deal with it as a summary matter do you know what a summary matter is he says which is in the magistrates the most I can give you the six months yeah which means I'll do three I'm coming out on three anyway so yeah so I says to them I says to them I'll plead guilty to this charge only if I can still take this to the Royal Court of Justice for the malicious prosecution yeah on the on the rape yeah because I want to name it yeah I want to get it out he says as long as the case isn't frivolous yeah he didn't think I'd go ahead with it yeah it's why I've been quiet for three years I've got the case listed now yeah I've got two cases in the Royal Court of Justice I've got the police on one case I've got a seat and a prison on one case and I'm listing this one because I'm going to strip it all away it was bollocks yeah right now she just turned out she cannot be named it was just a conduit for Massey side police to do what they wanted to do you understand? roll back to when I told you about Jimmy Savile roll back to when I'm in prison and Eddie Atta phoned Steven Spencer Benjamin up and said they're going to turn him into the next Jimmy Atta Jimmy Savile they charge me because they believed everybody would come out the woodwork you understand they never come out the woodwork it was a bogus case I'm still undoing it all I'm still in the process of undoing it all and it will be undone and when I do finish it I'll come back and do another show with you how was it for you when you get charged with rape when it came out that you were charged how was the reaction from people that happened when they looked at the evidence I was questioned over the 11th of September when they looked at the evidence and what she said that they couldn't work that they couldn't work so they changed the date when they changed the date they said from the 1st of December to the 30th anytime I wasn't even questioned over those days but then of course they put two dates the echo went the echo before it went to court Steven French charged with two counts of rape I'm in prison yet they're screaming at me one Frenchy one rape yeah that's all we could believe you but you've raped her twice yeah right and I hadn't it was a deliberate mistake in the paper do you think they meant that you tell me you tell me I think I've got it there from page yeah yeah yeah two counts of rape page 20 the next day sorry we made a mistake it's the only one so you tell me doesn't matter how game you are how much you can fight that shit in prison no no no you see here's what happened yeah rapists, guilty rapists go on the numbers I stayed in general population mate because I wasn't guilty yeah I wasn't guilty they had to move me from Walton yeah right because it was going off to regular you understand yeah yeah now you got it see see here's the problem that you've got with me James I'm in me 50s yeah I'm in me 50s yeah yeah right right I fight like fuck still you understand now if you listen to the punks in them you say when a Frenchie was in jail yeah he locked himself in his cell and he never came out of his cell yeah I did stay in my cell yeah right but I went to the gym three times the weekend I went to church every Sunday and if anybody wanted to see me see me in the gym and if you really want to have me with me in the church because I'll be in church every Sunday yeah now I wasn't putting myself in a position where there would be anywhere now real geezers real real fellas knew what was going down it's just rats and punks that want to jump on all that yeah right because if you and at that time I was doing social media posts and I was naming police officers that were I was naming judges that were yeah right and listen they just recall me pulled the windows out of my cells stuck a rape charge on me yeah right and I was fighting for my life man yeah how was it for you when the case got threw out sense of relief so no not really because this is what happened yeah this is what happened I'm in I'm in Preston and there's a buildup of about 12 young scouts lads on our wing once called Roy Hockman yeah absolute tosser yeah so I'm on the wing with these 12 scouts and I can feel it building yeah but they haven't got the balls to do anything you understand so one of them says something yeah right I said if you don't want to say anything to me come to me pad so they send this this ginger-edded light-skinned black kid yeah I christened them the coconut yeah brown on the outside white on the inside yeah so he's trying to front of them so he gets cracked on me pad door screws come down yeah yeah and I know it's Roy Hockman doing it all but he hasn't got the balls to say anything to me so within the gym yeah within the gym I sit down I'm dressed I sit down in the gym and it's getting dressed and I'm waiting for the changing rooms to empty yeah because I'm going to fucking smash it I'm waiting for the changing rooms to empty because I'm going to have a fight with them yeah I'm going to teach him about life this is the kid that's running the jail yeah what do you think he did James he grabbed his shirt put his pants on grabbed his shirt soaked him wet and ran out this is what you do when I get them on their own you understand ran out wouldn't stay in the changing rooms when the screws couldn't see it on and have it with me yeah so it's tense now I know did you think there was a hat out in your end present no let me deliver to you I know I know as long as I'm on that wing with them they're not going to do that because I can go into their pad set anytime yeah something happens now I know that if I do anything in jail I'm getting an outside charge you can have a fighting jail anybody has a fighting jail and they brush it under the carpet but they're looking they're looking to keep me in prison anywhere they can yeah so I've got to not have any trouble with anybody he threatened my daughter he threatened my daughter so I've gone down the savory and I threw all the food over them yeah I got moved to I got moved to another wing I got moved to another wing and that's when they paid somebody to attack me yeah I'm going somewhere going to college or whatever I'm doing yeah can you see that thing yeah scar kind of chewing it in the sock yeah some a double life it never getting out waxing on the back of the head yeah but it doesn't take doesn't put me down I turn around I take off after them yeah yeah and he runs behind the screws blood's gushing out of my head yeah yeah yeah and the screws jump on me yeah they take me down to the segregation unit yeah they cut my clothes off me yeah and they choke me out I get choked out I wake up James yeah sometime later lying in the pool of my own blood freezing cold naked do you know what I did I dip my hand in the blood and I wrote on the wall in massive letters my turn will come I've got my turn now I've got them in in the world court of justice I've issued the case yeah right wrote into them it's all on ctv yeah they're doing that just doing them the kid that whacked me on the back on the back of the head the next day he had his arm pulled through the railings and someone snapped it off I haven't got a clue did that but that's what happened to him you understand Roy the boy Hoffman yeah he walked and said tell Frenchie can we squash the beef can we squash the beef I said I've got no beef with him he's got no beef with him I've got no beef with him whatsoever I'm not interested I've let it go it's over the stone yeah I'm out of prison I went and seen the screws and I said to them there's a building with 12 scouts and it's going to be made you need to break them up do something or something's going to happen yeah I'll get about a quarter of a million quid at the end of the day yeah right right I'm not settling for anything less you understand yeah right if the judge says give him 90 well give him 90 but I've got them you understand I've got them my documentation you know what I told you before I document everything time and date stamp I do it all they shoot the the screws charge me with a failing to follow an order and go over to Ashcroft and witness someone he's getting witness summons yeah because they can tell the lies from the box if you put somebody in a box in the dock and they lie and you bring rebuttal evidence and they lie do you know what happens to them the judge asked you it's called pageery lying from the dock and you get caught lying from the dock it's pageery the only person that you can't witness summons is the queen yeah I can witness summons any of them if you can if you've got the way with those to go to cause and do that yeah you can witness summons any of them so I'm witness I'm witness summons Jevon Blake Head of the CPS DC 4849 Lucy Neal Governor Ashcroft and Security Governor Platt I know these this is getting took to trial listen listen listen they're trying to stifle the trial yeah yeah right it's stuck three years to get it it's stuck three years to get it listed it's stuck three years to get it listed I've got court dates court numbers so see all that stuff obviously the reputation you had Stephen everything you've done from the 80s and 90s and the nicknames the devil the tax man a lot of people are saying now that you're a grass yeah what is this story can we clear that up or is it true or is it false listen listen I've been hearing that I'm a grass for 30 years yeah I've been asking them to put the statements online on who I've grassed on yeah so when they call put the statements online to prove I'm a grass they move it to a paid police informer and that I get paid by the police to give them information in 2008 there was a pan and armour program called Young Gun Men I was shot out while that program was getting made yeah on Selbourne Street I know who shot at me yeah if you watch Danny Dyer there's a kid that comes on and he goes he can't come around he's a grass that's the kid that shot at me yeah he's in jail now grass is dead up yeah give evidence in a made trial I won't call his name because he can get nick for that for the shooting me give evidence in a made trial yeah stood in the dock and said he killed my mate yeah and he's got the cheek to call me a snitch so DCI Andy Lynch high up copper at DCI they contact me and they say Stephen your life's in danger these young fellas they're gonna get you why don't you come in and see us we can help you we can look after you I've got the letters so I say okay I'll come in and see you yeah and I'll see what you've got to say they take me to Rose Lane police station officers with no insignia officers with no insignia come on I'm a twat for secret recording devices I'm a twat that I've been doing for years you understand I've got me recording device secreted about my body yeah so they can't deny this you understand they can't deny this they say these kids are gonna get you Stephen they're gonna marry you this is what we'll do with you we can't expand your record we'll give you the new name we'll give you the new ID for you, your wife and the kids yeah and we'll give you £1000 a week £50 grand a year all you've got to do is make statements because these were cause of murder they got 100 years between them in the end because they carried on shooting people he says all your problems will be over grand a week new ID all you've got to do is stand in the dock be a grass that's what they're asking me to and this is what they're all telling me that I am yeah I'm 50 I'm 47 yeah and they're offering me a bag a week to roll over stand up James and I block out the light man with my big shoulders and I say you've got no fucking idea about who I am have you do you really think I'm going to roll over for the £1000 a week you could give me 50 grand a week I'm not going to roll over and I've got the tape recordings for that yeah I was offered witness protection to become a snitch I refused it nobody can put the statements online Eddie I said who phoned me up he said you raped a woman and they're going to turn him into the next Jimmy Savile Eddie I stood in the dock pointing at his own brother Stephen and said he chopped me with a chopper see my fingers James they don't come up I was stabbed off my sister my three tendons was cut the police came to see me they said Jordan Elin stabbed you so no she didn't she was mugged she never got questioned I've never snitched on anybody and I wouldn't snitch on anybody and if I did they'd be sending for 30 years you'd think the statements would be online you'd think if I'd made the statements somebody wouldn't have it you'd think that they wouldn't love to say there you go there you are yeah and then as for the police informer well I don't know any information to give them yeah me and the police don't like each other I've got them in court yeah I'm always exposed on TV every time they pick me up they beat me up so this is what it's about James yeah it's got its roots in racism yeah all the white boys that I've robbed and the way I've gone round this city this city they can't do nothing with me yeah because I've done them all I've had it with them all the golden gloves gym I used to train it was a white boys gym I used to train in that gym yeah make a hand or what do you come in yeah you're right and put a stuff on my peg yeah I said there you you big get it off do you know why I'm I said you'd be on your backside if you don't get that off the peg mate yeah yeah I'm the real deal mate when it comes to fisticuffs English British European and world kickboxing champion Wachow Horse that's all in the books it's not made up meanest men in martial arts martial arts hall of fame yeah knock 39 men out in competitions and street fights yeah so what do you do with a person like that if you can't kill them you just listen they need it to be true about me yeah because I'm Teflon I never went to jail till I was in my fifties is that why they call you a grass door because you never did anything between 20 and 50 listen to this I went to jail in 1990 listen when you can't do something about somebody it's like this it's like this I'm in jail yeah Alfie Lewis is my best friend he's telling people I'm getting me dick sucked in jail you understand this is me boy yeah now James if I was gay I'd be up front about it if I was jail gay I'd say yeah a bang man in jail because I'm up front about whatever I do yeah I'm not a hide around the corner type of guy now I've got bisexuals in my family I'll never out them but they let me take the rap for them you understand hehehe I'm a grass I'm a police informer I rape men women boys and my own baby daughter this is the stuff that they try to put on me and they all want to believe it's true twice I've been beat I've been beat off a lad called John Island when I was 11 Eugene Lam's cousin when I was about 14 I've lost two fights I've had hundreds I've been beat twice I've been jumped the most I've handled that's jumped me is four on my own through my martial arts but it's cause I'm a larger than life character it's because I'm well known it's because you write books and TV programs about me it's because there's a possibility of being a movie there it's envy listen it even happens I know a silver service waitress and police would have a three mason's dinner at the Hilton hotel and on top table she was serving them they all start getting well oiled they're talking about me the opportunity we've got to bring him down this is the top coppers who does he think he is driving round in a 50 grand Lexus with the roof off and the sunglasses on never worked a day in his life I had a security fame 500 lads working for me 500 families relied on me mate so it used to wire me up today there was a post on gangland Britain yeah you're right so I just go on their page get a photograph of them put it on the post and call them a nuns you're calling me a grass I'm calling you a nuns this guy going backwards and forwards loads of them just disappear I phone them up and everything they just carry me and them going backwards and forwards backwards and forwards I thought he's an admin I said isn't that snitching didn't he just call me a snitching you don't want to carry on because I'll do it all day long do you know what a pachyderm is no it's the group name for thick skinned animals like a rhinoceros an elephant a hippo and a steven french very thick skin brother skinned and then I bring Mike Tyson to Liverpool I bring Evander Holyfield to Liverpool I bring Evander Holyfield to Toxtov and I bring him to Mosside and I've got a boxer talking about kids to join martial arts how did you get them to personality and charisma personality and charisma and my own dollar how was Mike Tyson Mike Tyson is a real guy Evander Holyfield is a bit strange very difficult doesn't trust black people yet he's not Uncle Tom and listen in terms of athletes and fighters I've met them all Roberto Durant yeah one of my best friends is Brian Schumacher here's one for you you like this when we take over the doors this is my crew this is my crew Andy Palmer former ABA boxer Brian Schumacher white guy 1984 Olympic team captain Jimmy Price 1982 Commonwealth gold medalist Steven French world champion Andrew Jumbo British karate fighter black guy they couldn't touch us they took the door off us you know what for 21 incidents of violence in a month we just knocked people out how do we it was all over the papers that you were in the box at Liverpool sitting next to the players why did that get such a big uproar listen there was a journalist called John Siddle I got that hack the sack yeah right me and him were going at it I go at it with them I go at it with them online yeah and then my arguments are flawless you understand the way I put it across there's no way you can go and I made them look stupid online yeah now I've been at Liverpool support my whole life yeah yeah John Barnes is my mate yeah I know a lot of the football players and a lot of the football players like me you understand love the devil stuff you understand and I was invited into the box can't say bye it went viral the European papers had only gone the match John Siddle writes a 15 year old boy came up to me and said oh Steven French is sitting with the footballers they might get shot lies but listen if I said to you if I told you over Christmas from December 2015 to January 2015 a fed and clothed a dozen homeless people put them up give them everything they need in one of my places the whole works nobody would believe it you wouldn't read any paper if somebody says you just push the granny off the step and rub the purse everybody would believe it but it's the first one that's true because my good work I don't go around saying this is what I've done this is what I've done the kid Sean Westy on the young program he's one of the first white kids I mentioned he hung himself his mum's just died their Dylan's in prison their Craig's in prison they've been stitched up by Macy Sy police they're good lads but they get treated like black kids man do you feel as if you fight everyday no listen battling it's something I've chose to do it's a warrior spirit what you've got to remember I understand social media it's a fraction of people you understand social media the same as I do and it's a fraction of the people making a noise the majority of the people are with me the majority of the people who support me the people that contact you and say get them on, get them on, it'll be great I've got loads of support the ones that don't like me are full of envy and jealousy or they just don't like black people do you think how do you feel about your life now do you feel safe do you get an older do you think there's a hit out in your stouterous days listen all my enemies are dead or in jail and just like Jim Kelly if it comes to me I'll be too busy looking cool you understand I'm not scared of dying now what isn't me Achilles isn't me family yeah because Wendy can't do me I was going with the girl we didn't used to have sex we were living together she was a rape victim and I was accused of rape we found each other and we were comforting each other and it was Sally do you abuse that girl God for being with me man racist death threats she had to get special measures put on an awesome move how did the documentary with Danny Dyer come about it came off the book a company called Zigzag did the book now pilot episode season one episode one what you think is the most viewed yes yeah by double by double yeah the devil sold the devil sold 40,000 copies you're lucky if you're doing an awesome biography to get 10 you understand they're good figures now everything I say to you I can prove as far as it goes back to me child that I'm a dirty lying black bastard that's what they labeled me and I internalized it so I have to prove everything I say it's one of me coping mechanisms yeah what was Ross Kemp like Ross Kemp was a lovey that's all I can say he was a lovey see when you were doing these documentaries did that give you a new sense of power a lot of attention come with that see if you read the book it was all a means to an end yeah I don't want anybody to give me any money I want to raise it myself legitimately and I want to build my mate that was made as Zangru Jon Zangru Jon Memorial Skill Center that's what I want to do no race, no creed, no background teach the young men a skill, carpentry listen, when I had the security fame I used to make them take lads on and give them jobs loads and loads of lads were loads and loads of lads have had jobs off of me because all these the kids that do talk to me you know what they say to me am I going to make me fed if I've got no food drugs am I going to make me fed don't give a man a fish teach him how to fish you feed himself forever you understand now I got there I got there the long way round James you understand and I try my best you get it right to help those who want to be helped not to do that stuff you understand because here's the thing James it was all a mugs game yeah my friends were made it I lost my liberty my family will put on the duress if I had my time over you know what I'd do I'd be a puma I'd be a puma mate I think that's great to touch on because everyone is on their show I don't glorify anyone even though everybody wants to hear about the crime the pain but you've got to think about the victims the ripple effect of the misery it causes the destruction listen yeah and I've apologised in the book and I've said to you I feel deep shame and I've also taken my responsibility for the explosions of firearms because people had to protect themselves from guys like me yeah which brings us nicely James to why I got caught in a city centre with a fake gun and a machete yeah so you're very anti gun but then you get caught did you feel that happy crack you let a lot of people down listen of course it was a hypocritical act I'm not an anti gun campaigner anymore can't be but nobody can stop me from being a peace campaigner but let me tell you the story you've got a flavour of the pressure my life is having you've got a flavour of the pressure that's put on me yeah yeah so let me take you back to 213 let me take you back to 212 yeah when I'm driving around with a van der Holyfield yeah right it's driving the mud yeah you're right they want to kill me because I'm successful yeah so I'm snorting Charlie like it's going out of style you understand you're getting high too regular yeah and he was a businessman he tried to jack a kit for 400 quid and the kid came to me and I paid him the 400 quid that the kid owed him and because I paid him the 400 quid he thought I was weak you understand poor Smith cause I paid him the 400 quid he thought I was weak yeah and we were doing pensions in a we were doing pensions and I was running a commercial recovery service making broosters at all all the executive officers on the first floor money in the town what's he doing in this building yeah yeah yeah I've rented out I've got ten phones going yeah this guy wants to try and snaffle the business or do something you're right and so we decide it's going backward and forward then he tells me he's going to end me then he tells me he's going to shoot me yeah then he turns into my family so I told you about the homicidal ideation yeah sometimes I get to a point where I think Maird is a good idea yeah I've got papers from prison where the psychiatrist said this man sometimes thinks Maird is a good solution to a problem yeah and I'm not I don't like guns, I'm a swordsman yeah you know what for I was going to be heading yeah I'd had enough all the pressure that was going on all I was doing with the police they're taking the drugs a cracked wide open you understand James? a cracked wide open so I went into Callens and I bought them a shetty now let me set it up this way let me set it up this way I was married you put your hand on my wife's gate all better off you touch any of my kids all better off I will go and do life yeah I won't try to stealth yeah I won't try to sneaky do anything sneaky yeah I'll just attack you with a machete yeah yeah and you'll have no chance to question that I'm telling you how I think I'm not saying that because I don't want this not to get into the to the podcast this is what my brain was thinking and I'm setting it up because I still think that way I still think that way people say if somebody does something to my kid I kill them I mean it you understand don't start telling me you're going to do something to my kids yeah because I've had my life yeah I'm a samurai yeah I'll chop you up and kill myself yeah I ain't doing no more jail you understand I'm not going back to prison anyway so I've bought this chop and I'm going to chop them and I'm in Callens yeah right and I've also had a spiritual awakening I've always believed in God James always yeah the Catholicism was drummed into me yeah I'm not a Catholic but I believe in God I believe in the Creator and I believe in the blood of Jesus and people decry me and laugh about my spiritual beliefs but that's fine I know what I am and I'm in the same place and I'm thinking about killing this guy but there's another voice saying that I shall not kill that I shall not kill that I shall not kill and I see the fake gun and I think I'll pistol whip him I won't kill him I'll pistol whip him he went to hospital I went to jail you understand he went to hospital I went to jail the only thing that I regret about it James and I wrote a letter of apology to the echo about this is after the done I realised that I was on CTV yeah cause I chased him out the building yeah I chased him to the foyer and there was a young girl a young receptionist who worked there I used to talk to her I was friendly with her but I knew she was wary of me yeah and I've got this thing in me and nobody knows it's fake and I walk over and I say to her give me the CCTV because I took the CCTV out of quite a few places when I've done stuff don't take no evidence you get me and this is what I'm thinking when I realise the blood's calm down and realise I'm on video she's petrified she says I can't it's stored at a separate location yeah but I terrorised her just by asking her yeah they published a letter I wrote a letter of apology to her him, eating one for himself who else here it was just some up and coming guy just the next one in a long list why I left, listen I didn't leave Liverpool, people say French you got on out of Liverpool when I came out of jail in 216 I was 56 yeah and I had probation and the police breathing down my neck I needed a different probation officer I needed to be out of that jurisdiction and you know what James the best thing I ever did get out of Liverpool who was that sentence for you your first big sentence listen I've only done one sentence at that age see do you ever think right I've got away with so much I probably deserve this one I've paid my debt to society I'm fully rehabilitated I did my prison yeah there's a lot of things that I didn't do prison for yeah yeah but I also did 12 months that I shouldn't have done I raped that never got off to the police station so it swings around about and I'm a fair guy so I've drawn a line on the da I ain't going back to jail yeah I'm retired I've tried to let go of the violence I see a psychiatrist over me crazy thoughts yeah and that has helped me no end yeah because there's one for you and you might understand this the trauma of being charged with rape reactivates to child trauma yeah and you know what I've been diagnosed with PTSD complex PTSD yeah it's very complicated yeah don't, I refuse medication don't I've had enough medication to last me a lifetime self-medicated myself I don't know what happened so I'm on a journey it's not over for me yeah I help a lot of people doing what I do volunteer work yeah for an organisation that will remain nameless yeah I meet young men from prison as a meter in Greece I take them to the probation officers yeah I take them to do the social security, I take them in my car and I get them all settled yeah and then I keep a support network with them yeah yeah right because because I'm authentic yeah I've been shot I've been stabbed I've been set on fire I'm a well-known OG and I'm telling you kid it's a mugs game, get a job what was it like being set on fire? petrol bombed there you go there you go cream night club nought end elite right door man somebody goes the door and wants to get in yeah wants to get in the night club they won't let them in, they say I'll be back with friendship I don't even know the kid that night Dave Smith his house went up in flames his kids were banned yeah yeah right he started being in all kinds of houses down the petrol bombed my the petrol bombed me Lexis first then the petrol bombed my house the police came and see me and they gave me an osman warning they gave me an osman warning so I said to the cop the cop is doing this with his radio they're going to get you so I said is it Mickey Mouse yeah or is it King Kong do I have to be worried anyway I find out it's this kid called David Smith yeah so I said to him I want to meet you yeah he goes what so I want to meet you he says I'll meet you in town come on your own we'll meet at British home stores because it's on Tingyo I said no bring one with you and bring one with me he brought John Ogun with him John Ogun hates black people he feels now so he meets me when I see this kid yeah have you seen Clive Bowen in King Arthur when the Saxon King is talking to him and the Saxon King turns his back on him when I see this kid they're just giving me back that's respect they're giving me back took him inside yeah my brother's with me my brother not a well guy yeah he's with me and he's just saying let's just do them yeah we'll do the bed let's just do them so I said no the man's lost his children so I said to him I'm a family man yeah you're a family he goes I don't care don't you care about your other children that are alive he goes yeah I said listen mate you know me whenever I've ever had a problem with a man they've never had to look for me I'll knock on the front door I'll fight them in their own backyard yeah now I know Dave you're the good little one but I'm a good big one I take it outside and kick it up and down the road right now yeah and I'll say this life because he knows it's the truth you understand yeah I'm gonna give you the pass the kids died and the attempt at the fire bomb on me house it only buried the kids but two days before that I had all the kids in the house they all went home yeah my words of vying rang true to him he knew it wasn't me and he put it to bed so you were curious to kill any kids my mate's on the parmer that's sad man listen my mate's on the parmer he's on his deathbed yeah he's in the classroom bridge and he goes Jim he used to call me Jim Jim did you burn those kids yeah and the reason my name was in it is somebody went to nine club they couldn't get in and they said I'm coming back with friendship so I was in it yeah you know I fight with men mate yeah I've got a policy yeah I don't threaten families I don't threaten women I'm all fashioned yeah I'm all fashioned and this is another reason the white boys don't like me they know I can do it they talk shit they try to ridicule me but they've seen me do it yeah when I was working in the grafting Tommy Gilday was still alive remember the lad was talking about Tommy Gilday the dad Tommy Gilday had the no-attent on luck yeah he tried to come in the club he ended up having a fight with Andrew Andrew was bashing him I bashed some of the lad yeah and we stopped him from coming in he said he'd be back yeah he said be back we're gonna sort this club out Tommy Gilday 300 of them turned up 300 of them turned up yeah and those that were there I was in the echo those that were there know this is the truth yeah they know how many of them they was yeah but unfortunately for them they brought a knife to a gunfight you understand yeah and 300 men with knives and a man with a gun what's gonna happen they took off down the road me and Andrew John chased 300 of them down the road yeah legendary stuff mate legendary yeah on the grafting six of us there was we chained the door Tommy Smith another elder black eye black doorman yeah says do you want to speak to you Steve we'll have a pow wow he's on the phone he's on the phone to Andy Palmer Andy Palmer could fight Andy Palmer was a boxer could fight like anything but he didn't like the serious violence and Tommy Gilday was about serious violence next level stuff yeah so Andy's on the other one on the phone I've snatched the phone off Andy I said I've got another one here with your name on it and put the phone down you understand because I was the devil then you understand I was vicious yeah and I didn't give a damn Tommy came and met us and Tommy Smith's house we had a meeting we sorted it all out and do you know what happened he started saving Andrew with brown and we made a fortune together you understand yeah this is what people don't know yeah or what do you like to brush under the carpet you understand no blacks can come in this club sick storm and we knocked out and said get off drink champagne all night said to the manager phone the police see what happens to you yeah took the colour bar off they didn't take it off we took it off yeah so the black kids could go into town yeah nobody it's it's I don't say it to glorify yeah when I get accused of being a coward it riles me yeah because I'm no punk even at 60 I'm no punk you understand and it winds them up it winds them up I'm a lump and I'm a lump that knows how to hit yeah I'm a lump that knows how to hit and I've got the commitment to hit you understand it's a little combination you've spoke about your friend Andrew a few times your best friend who was murdered what was your life like once that happened did you ever think right enough's enough I'm getting out I'm moving away or did it just show you a few more fire no no see he died 91 did you know when I packed in 94 I packed in 94 when I held my daughter in my hand that hand yeah these were my prospects mega rich mated or life in jail they were my prospects if I didn't make some changes I opened a security firm called CRIMOX Security biggest security firm in the north west and about 500 men working for me yeah and then you know what a QS is quantities of air they liked me I used to give them a good service I had rent all the car showrooms yeah the cars would go missing they phoned the police so the police could get them I'd get the cars back in five minutes yeah the black kids come down drop the TV I'd go up to the houses and give the telly back yeah so I had all these contracts and it was the builders that got me into the property two ups and two downs you get me which legitimized me legitimized me through my accountants yeah a lot of stuff went to my money's in a mess a lot of stuff went on when I went into prison stuff went on with me wife stuff went on with this and there's still things that get wrangled yeah right I'm not I haven't got what I had but I'm okay you understand I'm happy yeah I'd love to have a better relationship with my grandchildren yeah but I understand do you not see them listen imagine I go and take my grandkids out in Liverpool and some pricks sees me and fires one into the car my daughters don't want to take that chance and I have to accept that yeah that's understandable as well listen listen I accept that yeah right I love them unconditionally from afar I've made a lot of sacrifices but if if I was going to pay a compliment a compliment to myself it would be I have great fortitude you understand I have strong fortitude yeah right and I can cope with a lot yeah and I raise my children I went to private school I wasn't a dead beat dad you understand but the kerfuffle that wages around me on Merseyside is ridiculous yeah now I'm down south they followed I went to London in April 17 yeah by August they were following me you understand listen from the cops London police are all right with me do you feel lucky to be alive Steven this day to hit 60 I wasn't supposed to make it this far to get me I wasn't supposed to make it this far yeah five bombed shot shot on the leg, shot on the arms yeah stabbed yeah money put on my life a couple of times fantastic story so when I got the Osmond morning yeah there's a guy I won't call his name he's a chaplain I used to work at the life bar he's the only guy he was going on he was going on between us and the 05-1 crew the Lynchers and I went to go into a life bar and he stopped me from going in but not only did he stop me from going in he squared up to me I will call his name, his name is Ian Hollywood Ian Hollywood squared up to me I said you're not going in Tony Bellevue Senior was his boss I said put a call into Tony just do me a favour put a call into Tony you put a call into Tony went in turns out to Ian had an Irish connection and the Irish lads were coming to kill me yeah if the Irish are coming to kill you're going to get killed you understand what's his name or Joey Owens he wrote and he's got a book called Door Wars yeah in his book he says that I was crying and screaming for my life like datey stinking lion shabby yeah never happened never happened the thing snowballed yeah it got out of hand and it never took place I've been prisoned in 213 and I get a letter from Ian Hollywood I don't think you'll remember me Steven I don't think you'll remember me Steven blah blah blah blah now you've got to remember yet right I mean I'm depressed I'm in jail everything's closing in on me yeah and I get this letter from this white guy no offender supposed to be a racist yeah apologising and asking for forgiveness from me so I wrote back to him got the letters and I said of course I remember and I forgave him now this is how things can be sorted out me and that man were going to kill each other that one time in our lives yeah this man works out all the hay and gives the kids last rights before they go up to meet the maker yeah that's his job you get me his heart is unbelievable and he's my best buddy and he's about to kill each other and we sorted out because of door wars and what goes on in Liverpool yeah and now with a pair of our men and he'll come down and I'll make him a curry and I'll go up and see him we see each other all over the country and we've got a fantastic relationship and I love him what's the future plans then for Stephen Fringe where do you see yourself now so I came out of prison and I've been working solid on my cases yeah that's all going to be finished shortly I've got two companies Yamato Damashi which is Japanese fighting spirit yeah and I've got massive and agile media yeah right I've got the film rights have been optioned for my life story yeah a script's being made in America but we've got some legal wrangles with some of the people that I've got claims on the book that's got to be sorted out what I'm looking to do yeah right is open my charity massive men accused of serious sexual incident falsely yeah and make a support network for individuals that went through me but in a charitable way I'm also going to carry on doing my mentoring for the incident and I'm not looking for nothing from nobody and if the movie kicks in I've kept I haven't took a payment I want to get paid at the back end because if I get paid at the back end that's when you get the millions yeah right just we've got a spin to cans spin to cans film festival it was called the 49th lord yeah they're now working on a title called Frenchy Abel legend yeah and whether that happens or whether that doesn't happen is in the ether yeah yeah yeah what I'm going to carry on doing is staying out of trouble staying out of prison doing my charitable works yeah and hopefully I want to start to help the men that have been accused of serious sexual incidents falsely and and I will be the personal yardstick on that you understand because rape is an actual crime it's a crime committed predominantly by men against women yeah against women and girls it's off the chart but there's also another crime that goes alongside that that's been committed by women against men and it's cashed the claims these tried to send me to prison for 10 years yeah to cash in yeah and and the system tried to chew me up yeah I took the system on yeah it let me hold but it couldn't digest me it had to spit me out yeah and I moved from Liverpool worked on the case yeah and I was tentative about doing this spoke to the body but I'm getting back into the fray yeah I'm getting back into the fray and as you know and you'll see the interest in me because I predict that this podcast will do a million views it's a big prediction that means it will be a number of one podcast out of over the hundred I've done listen I'm like Muhammad Ali I'll call it when it's going to happen love attraction yeah I believe it will do a million views yeah because people are interested in what's going on with me you understand and even my enemies are going to watch you yeah and well the enemies are always the first to watch so they are yeah the enemies are always the first to watch and it's crazy it's a crazy world out there if I don't like someone I ain't going to fucking watch them listen to this but you see two of the most basic human emotions that are the most prevalent loving hate envy and jealousy yeah off the chart yeah off the chart yeah envy and jealousy yeah yeah you be they won't like you because you're handsome you understand he's a good looking fella isn't he yeah yeah nice teeth and all oh you'll be thinking I'm after you now listen listen secure homosexuality enough to say one another man's hands you understand and just because you're doing what you're doing you're interviewing people like me David Dyke you're doing what you're doing you're making something happen they'll dislike you for you people make moves what happens I'll shine a spotlight on the unmist opportunities because if he can do it why can't I do it people get like you see the green eyed monster I couldn't give a fucking very fixed hand having threw too much in life to let things water off a duck's back with me I know what I'm creating I know where I'm going in life I know exactly what I want it's as simple as that I'm not harming anyone Stephen I believe I was 45 minutes we've done fucking podcast probably so is there anything you'd like to finish up on because you've had a roller coaster of a life is anything that you want to finish up on to get it out there and speak your peace yeah if you love the mind where you don't like me if you love the mind where you think I'm full of shit hold that opinion but just leave me alone you're entitled to your opinion because opinions are like assholes everybody's got one yeah so just let me do me because like what you've just said I ain't trying to put me in anybody else you understand yeah and my days of falling people up and saying I'm gonna meet you are over you understand I'm too old yeah there's more gray me beard than black yeah so I want to help without being hindered and that would be my message let me help when I started this piece of yeah oh chop this in chop this in somewhere so I've gone to get rid of the gun and the machete and because of my notoriety and I've been on the TV and off duty's policemen noticed me and marked a spot where they done it yeah there was and it turned out it turned out to be a blessing in disguise that it was a fake one because it was a real one I would have got I got six years I got two knocked off I got a guilty plea yeah right so I got four and I did two but then I got caught back and I did one so I've ended up doing three years jail yeah three years jail for the lifestyle I've had I've paid my debts to society yeah I'm on the straight and narrow I'm rehabilitated yeah and the only thing that get me going again is if you do something to my kids yeah that's the only thing that get me going again you see the bastardization of sabuku is harikari there's no such thing as harikari it's sabuku ritual suicide when my instructor died yeah he trained 5000 students I got his sword he chose me to have his katane because I'm a modern day samurai yeah and if my family get this on it I know what I'll do but I won't be doing no prison so just leave us alone just leave us alone leave my family alone leave me alone if you don't like me that's fine yeah yeah if you want to do something to somebody do it to me I'll do it to them yeah these punk stuff what do you want to do is threaten your kids what's that about that's not gangster you understand that's yeah listen Stephen for coming on the thing and meeting me and telling your story I appreciate that all the best for the future