 Well, hello everyone. We are here today to make a presentation about selling the open source philosophy. So this session was switched with another one from yesterday, so maybe you guys cannot be noticed by the press schedule. Well, it's a presentation by me, Renato Vasconcelos, and Lucas Arruda. I'm from Taller, a Drupal shop from Brazil, and Lucas, can you present yourself? Yeah, sure. First of all, I'd like to welcome you guys, and thank you for being here this morning. I'm going to present myself. Okay, so my name is Lucas Arruda. I'm from Brazil, Campinas, and currently I work as a software architect in the Drupal competence office of CINT. CINT is a company, an IT company from Brazil, and currently we have around 200, almost 300 people working with Drupal there. So it's a big multinational company with our headquarters in Brazil, and we have this Drupal competence office in which I have my full agenda, dedicated to all Drupal issues within the company, and also matters related to community relationship. I'm also an open source enthusiast, and actually the presentation here is based on some experiences that we had on trying to sell open source solutions to big companies. There's also one detail I'd like to point out that actually my partner, Andrews, would give this presentation with me, but he would not be able to attend because some missing documentation that he could not get ready for going to Columbia. And I'd like to thank you very much, Renato, for taking his place and giving this presentation with me. Both Andrews and Renato work at Teller, so they are working on daily basis, and they know each other very well. I'd like to make this presentation in honor of Andrews, yes, I'm sorry, because actually the whole idea is of him, and I'm really sad that he's not here, so I'm making this in honor of him. Okay, so let's proceed. Okay, so here I am, Renato Vasconcelos, trying to cover as better as I can our peer, Andrews. I'm a software architect and developer at Teller, a Drupal shop based on Florianopolis, Brazil. I'm working with open source and agile communities for a while, and I think it's like almost eight years on the road doing web development and working with software, and especially with Drupal, I'm working like almost six years. So as Lucas said, we are trying to share some experience about how to sell that philosophy of open source and give some advices and tips that help you to achieve your goal of selling open source. Well, so everybody already knows that it's a definition of the open source initiative that is basically, we have to know what is the open source philosophy, what is open source actually. So the open source initiative defines that the goal or the promise of open source is harness the distributed peer reveal in order to guarantee quality, reliability, flexibility, low cost or cost control, stability, and end of the vendor lock in. So we have to take in mind that the goal of the open source is to have software that can be done by people that are passionate about this and that have lots of quality because we have lots of people looking for this and we don't have one single vendor working with this and locking you into a solution that you cannot have the flexibility that the open source provides to you. So here goes a question, is that hard to sell open source? Do you think it's hard to sell open source? Sorry? Who is listening to you? Yeah, I agree with you. So we have to refute some myths about the open source because as you said, the people that are listening to us when we start talking about open source trying to sell some solution based in open source, there are some myths that we have to bust them in order to start talking about like no prejudice or like a really clear vision of what is the reason about the open source and why it's like the most appropriate solution in order to have quality, flexibility, and low cost. Okay, so the first myth that we usually hear from people when we are talking about open source is that open source is insecure, okay? And let's talk a little bit about this. Why people think that open source is insecure? There is this general thought mainly on people that are not used to the open source culture and the first thing that they hear is that open source is a code that anyone can change, right? That you are free to do whatever you want. So if anyone can change, people start to think that perhaps a hacker or some bad intention people can be there and insert a malicious code or a code that will insert a bug or a security breach and stuff like that. And actually this is not true because all open source projects have what we call their maintainers, right? So in general these maintainers can choose whether or not they can approve or reject a feature, a pull request, a piece of code that another people is trying to, is suggesting that this code is inserted into the original project. So the first myth that we need to refute is that not everyone can make changes to that code, okay? Everyone can suggest improvements, bug fixing, enhancements, but this usually goes through an approval workflow in which the maintainers can choose to approve or reject the change, okay? And usually this is a strict process, okay? And we're going to look at this further in the presentation, but you have to be in mind that and you can say that to your clients or your prospects. A lot of big companies, big corporations are investing on open sourcing, are using open source solutions and they would certainly not do that if we could, if this would not be a strict process, okay? The second myth is that actually we're not, we are insecure yet. Security is something that is not only to do with open source projects. On proprietary softwares that you have your code closed, you can also find security breaches, right? Because you have a lot of ways to do exploratory tests on closed softwares as well. You can make injections and a lot of other manners to exploit security breaches on proprietary softwares. So it's not mean that only by closing the source code of your software, this means that it's secure, right? And we have to remember that collaboration is one thing that it's very important for security measures because when we have a lot of people looking into the same code base and trying to find issues, trying to fix that security breaches, usually these resolutions are much more faster than the code of proprietary companies that have their own release times. And not to mention that we have third parties, other vendors, the community itself much more interested on releasing those security fixes and making the solution more stable, okay? And for certain paid softwares, you have also to pay for that security releases. And that's something that not happened with open source. Okay, so some still saying that open source quality is low. But why do they say this actually? Personally, I cannot understand because I'm really involved with the open source community. So to me, it's like normal to see the quality of the open source projects and solutions. But something that Lucas said is that they have a fear of not having control about a vendor controlling this code or the evolving of the project because the businessmen are used to think in the old century of how to sell products. So they base the arguments of selling in the credits that the vendor has in the market. And this can be a piece of point that you have to mention that a vendor cannot guarantee, actually they can, but not vendors can guarantee all the support and quality because if you have a software or a project that have a huge community behind of it, you have like too many people that are able to support you and provide you services and like consulting or everything over the software. So again, it's more people looking at the code and there's lots of people passionate and collaborating with this software in order to evolve it. So that is the point. We have a team dedicated to do this. So the Coverti report is going to report for open source. And it's a report that usually to run code analysis through projects that is open or proprietary. And it's used by NASA, SAP, Microsoft and some other huge vendors in the market, in the IT market. And it ones of the most reliable metrics about the evolving of the quality of the software. So the numbers of the facts for ever 100 line, it's the metric of the Coverti scum report. So you can see that the open source had a point 59 and over a point 72, the facts over 100 lines in comparison with proprietary software. So we can see in this graphic that the curve of the facts that are fixed with over the time is like really significant because the curve is different because the open source, in order to have, because of open source have too many people working with this and they have to solve this problem because they're working in project that has to be this fixes. They evolve faster. It's something like you have more people or more resources to solve the problems than you have with a proprietary solution because they have their limited team that can be like a large amount of people but they have their own priorities. So the priorities of the clients may be not the same as the vendors. So that's a point that illustrates how the evolving of open source is more frequent and the number of issues is really significant in comparison with proprietary software just because of the arguments I already said. So the Coverti scum report of open source said that 8 out of 10 people surveyed are choosing open source based on quality. So it's like, it's strange because as people choose open source because of the quality, people still saying that open source it's like has a poor quality. So why can't you understand these affirmatives in order of having these numbers about how many people are choosing open source based on the quality of the software, the solution. So open source code quality surpasses proprietary code quality in C and C++ projects according to the Coverti scum report for open source. And also if software is eating the world, then open source is leading the charge. So it's a phrase from Zach Zamocia, a senior director of Coverti. So it's a vision of the future because today we can see and the numbers prove that the open source have the right place and it's getting more into the IT market over the years. The first, the third myth that we usually hear is that if you have a lot of people working voluntarily for an open source project, so does it mean that this software does not have any owner, right? So it gives the impression that there's no one to actually claim for when something bad happens. So there's no company behind that software to argue or to complain because actually it's a bunch of people working voluntarily to evolve that software on their free time and whatever they choose. That doesn't work that way actually. We have a bunch of companies that offer qualified technical services and support 24x7, 3065 years per year on these softwares, on top of a lot of open source softwares. So you can see for example, Canonical on top of Bullton and Acre on top of Drupals and on top of PHP and more recently Microsoft on top of .NET Framework that has just been released as an open source project. Actually last week its core, it's like the JVM for Java, so it's the virtual machine for .NET was also open sourced. So Microsoft is now one of the companies that are behind of an open source project right now. So we have, yes we have a lot of companies that provide qualified support for open source projects. Not to mention free support that the community itself gives for us. So we have for example the MIRC, I'm not sure if you are using it to that live chat platform. A lot of open source communities discuss within this platform. We have Stack Overflow so you can post your questions and receive answers from the community. And a lot of people from that companies that I showed you are actively working on Stack Overflow. You can see that they answer questions and for free you don't have to pay anything. You have forums, internet forums you can discuss a lot of things, mailing lists, online documentations. A lot of open source projects have a full and well documented on their own sites. So this is resources that it's always available and you can get it for free anytime you want. And that's something that usually only open source projects have. But not every open source projects have all these things that we just told you. Life is not a bed of roses and it's important to know which open source we should choose to invest or not to give our time on. We need to look at the ecosystem that is around this open source project. Because it doesn't mean that just by open sourcing a piece of code so you get your piece of code and put it on GitHub. And okay now it has stability, reliability, an active community. No, it's not like that. You need to get to know the ecosystem that is around a certain open source project. And usually this ecosystem has another name that it's used to know by community. Okay so it's very important to get to know the community around a certain open source project. Let's recap a little bit what we just, this myth that we just talked about. Open source is insecure so we saw that actually it's not quality is low. We have some metrics stating, some important metrics for coverage stating that the quality actually is better for certain technologies. And that nobody owns, no one supports. So we have the community support and we have companies that are willing to support for paid services. So these are some of the initial arguments that you can use to show that your clients or your prospects that they can start investing on open source projects. And I'm really happy that we busted these myths because we need to look at these arguments that people say about open source being bad or being a not good solution. And we need to be actually the myth busters of open source. So now that we just busted these three myths, here comes another question that's pretty much related to our conference here. Is that hard to sell Drupal? So I'll try to give some information about how can we prove that there's, if it's actually hard to sell Drupal. Because we have lots of methods or like tools in Drupal project in Drupal community to enforce the security of the system. So we have a security team dedicated to find and correct and fix the bugs. They are really dedicated to it. So if you can find a bug or like a critical issue in a module that can be a security issue, you can get the notes about this. And they will help you to solve this. And when it's solved, they will open the new release of the module in order to prevent like attacks during the correction. So we have also peer review. So it gives us more security about the code because it's not like one person doing everything. And anyone else can look at the code and say, oh, it's not like in our standards or you should do this because it's more efficient. So the peer review is a method that can improve the quality of the software and guarantee the Drupal security. We have also the peer review as a script. So it's a script that we run over the code trying to prevent bad patterns and trying to guarantee the quality of the code and the standardization of the solutions by running static code analysis and things like that. We also have lots of automated tasks in order to guarantee that the features is working and everything is on they should be. So we have these mechanisms that guarantee the security of the Drupal project. So this is a really good argument to use in order to prove the security of Drupal. So we have in the Drupal lots of mechanisms that we use with the peer review as a script and patterns that prevent the major flaws that a software can have. So we have preventions for injections, cross-site scripting, session management and cross-site request forgery. That was the most common security issues on projects today. So some projects, some companies actually think that they would be more successful if they try to build their own CMS. We heard that a lot of companies start building their own CMS. And actually they need to deal with all these security issues by themselves. And Drupal has prevention for all these major security issues for those top 10 OS vulnerabilities by internally building on its own. So you don't have to worry about any of these security breaches because Drupal already deals with that pretty much, right? Yeah. So we have more about Drupal security. So you'll have vulnerability tests like Veracode and Equalis. So it's like a really well-known names in the security track or security industry. So we have a Drupal secure website in order to show all these arguments if you need to get more information about it. You also have a really use case study that White House switched to Drupal. So it can be a really good argument to sell in Drupal because it's one of the most attack websites in the world. So if they are using Drupal, it should mean that the Drupal is secure. Don't you agree with me? I think. So we also have to say that Drupal is PCI compliance. So we have all these arguments that prove that Drupal is secure and we have all these mechanisms to guarantee this. Yeah. We are going to share this presentation and most some of these topics are linked to external references. So for example, this PCI compliance is linked to an external reference which describes how Drupal deals with transaction and payment information and how this is really secure and you can build for instance an e-commerce robust solution on top of Drupal with no issues concerning user and credit card information and stuff like that. Well, and we have to say also about the quality of Drupal. So what is the mechanism that we have to guarantee this quality? We have coding standards. So we have a well-known working agreement into the community to work and contribute with Drupal. So this is a way to prevent the chaos of the project and it guarantees the quality. We have also the peer review. Also it's helps in the quality. As I said, the peer review script and also the automated tasks. But the thing is that the quality is directly related by our community because we are a huge amount of people that wants to have a really good software and we have the will of making this more efficient and have really good software in terms of quality. So we have some showcases that could help to illustrate the security and the quality of Drupal. So we have some really well-known names like INGE or the White House, the Economist, PayPal, Johnson and all of these well-known names in the market that choose Drupal and it's based on his quality and security. One of the most common approach that I suggest you to take is trying to figure out a good case and mainly vertical to the same industry of your prospect of the client that you're trying to achieve that project and show them how these projects are working on these websites. So if you're trying to sell into a health care industry, you have pretty much excellent cases on Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer for instance. If you're trying to sell for a furniture industry, we have the INGE that I'm going to explain a little bit further. So try to get a case to show to your client from the same market share and it's very interesting that INGE adopted Drupal on its solutions stack. And we have this article here on Tree's blog and it's very interesting this first sentence of his which is, you know when a piece of software is major, when it starts being adopted by financial services organizations, what does that mean? Usually financial organizations are very and strictly traditional so it's very hard for them to change. And mainly to adopt a solution that has all these myths and discussions concerning security, stability, quality and so on. So we can say that if this traditional financial organization really adopted and invested on top of Drupal, it certainly is a very major platform. So in order to empower your pre-sales process even more, most of people forget that we have also Drupal.com website which has a more commercial appeal, more pre-sales appeal. So I suggest that you visit Drupal.com and you get to know a lot of references and arguments and cases as well that will help you convince your client to adopt this platform. So and you have another argument that you can use and it's make a really difference when you're trying to sell open source that is you're getting a lot of things for free. So in the Drupal case, in the case of Drupal, we have more than 30 hundred modules. So they are piece of software that was developed by some company that needed this solution and they used their resources in order to build these modules and contribute back to the community. So you doesn't have to recreate the wheel. So it's almost every piece of software that you can use to solve your problem and you have 30 hundred modules that can help you with this. You also have 20.100 themes so it will help you to start the development of your solution and you can also choose a contributed team in order to doesn't have to build your custom team if you doesn't have time or if you prefer. So it's just for free. You have like 3700 developers working with Drupal and you get this support for free because if you're using this software and these developers are working with you. So you have a lot of people and support for free. You have also 2.500 comments per week. So it's like a huge amount of code that you get for free. And you have 500 issue comments per week. So it's a project that have lots of discussion and the collaboration is really important. And it's all all these things are for free to try to charge and you got this. Your clients can start from zero with all these things and they doesn't have to pay nothing for this. Yes. The point here is actually clients love to see numbers. So what the message that you should give to a client when presented these numbers is that you actually can reuse a lot of things. So a lot of things are already built and ready to be used. And what does that mean? Does it means a faster time to market. They also love the sentence. And it really means that you are going to build less things from scratch. OK. We're going to reuse a lot of stuff and end the project in a faster timeline. And that's really a good very good argument. I'm trying to help you. Yeah. So and everything can be more and even better because we have like more than one million people in 20 to 129 countries speaking 118 languages in this project. So we have a really mature solution in meaning of multi language and support in your language and at your time because we have a lot of people working all over the world. And this support can be used for free in the forums and IRC and other tools that you can get this tool and that you can use that to prove that they will have support by the community. And one one more interesting thing that you can say to a client and it's nice thing to think about is if you are reusing a lot of stuff from the community and we have those huge numbers of people actually working on these projects. Don't you agree with me that they are indirectly working on my project for free. OK. So yes we are going to have people all around the world the world working on those models teams and code that I'm using on my project trying to improve them fixing security breaches bug fixing and I'm not paying actually nothing for that. Yeah. And there's a youth made sentence in the Drupal community that is that is a module for that. So what is what it does what it means actually it try to represent the power of reusing reusing things through modules themes and this kind of stuff because you have a lot of developers working with this and you just have to get and put in production. So it helps you to tranquilize your clients because they have the known that they already have a lot of software that is ready for production. So you will you will save time and save money. And all these existing pieces can be put together in order to make a better solution for the client's needs. So it's it's like it's like it's starting with almost the final solution. Even if you didn't start developing because the code the modules and everything are ready ready. And despite using your own solution that it's in house and nobody else knows about it. You are using and a lot of more than a million people are using the same models and solutions all around the world. So it's gets a time that the solution the solutions are very well tested and reliable because simply a lot of people are using and reporting and fixing them involving them. And and you have another thing that you can use that is the Drupal lightning profile. So some of you that may have in the ACA partner summit in the first day of the conference could see the product. And it was it was built as an Acquia sales tool. And it's a demo framework that you can use to show these common scenarios for your clients. So in order to show to show them that Drupal has already really mature solutions or products based on different industries. So you can have like Internet already already ready to use. Like you have also commerce solutions. You have searching solutions. We have responsiveness. You have multilingual and all of these things is already there and for free for clients. So it's perfect to show your clients how Drupal can be awesome and what Drupal can do for them. Any anyone here already uses the demo framework in your pre-sales process. Nobody. Do any of you use the demo framework on your pre-sales process already. No. So so I really suggest you take a little time and take a look at the this demo framework. You can just download it. It's Drupal project so Drupal dot org slash project slash DF from demo framework and during installation you can choose among a list of profiles which bring you a full working platform with dummy content to show your client all the power that Drupal gives us. Okay so this as Renato said this was using by Acre to as a sales tool and it's now available for us to leverage it and show our clients what Drupal can do for commerce, for multilingual, responsiveness and all that kind of stuff. It really helps to visually show, present to the client this kind of stuff. At the Drupal dot org website so it's a project like a module so it's Drupal dot org slash project slash DF from demo framework. And it's like a Drupal distribution so it's a Drupal installation with a lot of built-in modules from the community already configured to a specific showcase. And this is also one very important thing if you need to help on trying to sell Drupal to your clients partner with Acre because they can help you a lot as a co-selling process. And we talk a little bit about this on Acre partner day on this Monday and we had a case by Rafael Ciccini from Just Digital and he told us how good it was to partner with Acre because he has a small kind of small company and Acre is helping them a lot on trying to sell Drupal to his clients. So they help you with material, with presentations, meetings, they actually can send people to help you and go to the client and try to sell that project. So I really recommend you to talk with an Acre representative and try to make some partnership with them. So let's summarize a little bit of just talking about security and quality of Drupal. So we saw a little data and some metrics stating that Drupal has a major workflow for accepting changes and has automated tests. And a lot of scripts that go through all pieces of code and giving feedback whether or not that code is really secure and has quality. We also saw that Drupal is being adopted by a lot of large organizations. So this gives us and our clients much confidence in adopting into our businesses as well. And community tools and support. So we have some companies such as Acre and a lot of community stuff that can help us in getting support for this project. Okay, but we saw the project. Now what? We are making money with Drupal, right? Using a lot of stuff that the community gave us for free that other companies paid for using their own resources and time and budget to build something and gave back to the community. And we are simply using them and having success with this stuff. Isn't just fair if we try to maintain this ecosystem as well instead of sucking everything from the community and giving not back. So there's this Drupal slogan. So when you access Drupal.org it's right below the Drupal logo. And I think this explains pretty much what I'm talking about. You came for the software, right? So why not be part of this community? Why not be part of this ecosystem and help to maintain it? Now we are going to present some of the advantages that open source projects have that will give you a little bit of an idea why you should care about maintaining this culture going on. So we have a listing of points that can show the advantages that open source projects have. So they have alignment with social values so people can feel like into the community and it gives us the notion of we are doing something better for the next generations, can you say? So it's like really aligned with social values in order to provide better things to the others. So proprietary projects doesn't bring this culture, this feeling so it can be used as an argument. So it's like a way of thinking, a mindset that you can use in order to arc to your clients. Actually we have some different ways of dealing with this. For example if you have to convince your manager or someone above you in your company's hierarchy that you should give back a suggestion that you can try to use is look at your company's mission, credo and these kind of statements because usually, and I had this experience, it's stating that most of the companies that they care about the community that they are involved in. In a more generic way but this fits very well on Drupal community. If you are involved, if your company are involved in this community it makes totally sense to help it grows and maintain it. Another situation, it's quite common for a large organization with large clients is that you are going to try to convince your client who has paid for the code that you are developing that you should give back this code to the community and he's going to ask you, but I paid for this project, I paid for this piece of code. Why should I give it back to the community store or other competitive industries or companies that are going to use it? But remember that 30,000 modules that you are using on your project that saved you time, budget and resources. Many other companies paid for that as well and you can use that approach too. Many other companies used their time, their budget and decided to help the project grow in the end. They have another thing that is like only in the open source mindset that you have a continuous improvement that you can rely because the community is working for growing the project and building a better solution. So this is like something that your client will get and it will continue getting from the community and they won't have to pay for this continuous improvement. It's not like when you buy a software that you have to wait for the release time, you cannot wait for the release time of the software because the open source projects have a really short release time because there are so many people working and trying to fix all those things. And build new features so the improvement is continuous and the clients will get this with open source software. You have also the possibility of working so open source allows you to make changes if you doesn't like something and the clients have the flexibility of doing this if they are working with open source projects or Drupal in this specific situation. And it's also easy to identify, qualify the secure Skylabors because we have all these mechanisms in the community that you can use as a resource for identifying these providers or these developers. Okay, so it's working. Okay, it's working. Just a second, I'll get lost here. Well, so you have the flexibility of creating your stuff because in open source you can customize things because you have the code, you can see that code. So the possibility of creating new features is an advantage over the proprietary software because your clients doesn't have to ask them or see if it's a prioritized feature or issue that the proprietary software vendor is in mind. This is all about freedom. You know, this is all about you have the possibility to change in order to fit according to your needs. So it's really a good advantage. So we have also fast issue resolutions just because of the amount of the community and all the people that are involved with this project. We also have great support because all of the passionate people that are working with this software and almost everything of this advantage is for free because it comes from the community. So it's a bonus that your client can take when he's choosing Drupal or an open source project. All of that just depends on one thing. So everything that we just said that these advantages that open source have, all those benefits that Drupal community and its major platform gives us, it depends on one thing, which is give back to the community. So only doing that we are going to keep the project evolving and maintain everything that keep this ecosystem around so alive and active. Thank you very much. This is it. So we would like to ask you for evaluate this presentation so we can follow this link at the bottom of the slide and also give us your feedback about this presentation. It's one single question. It's really very fast to answer. So we start for open for questions so if you'll have a doubt or something. I would like to know more about Drupal security. If one client asks for a security test for the developed projects in Drupal, which steps can I make or can I do to show to my client the security in their webpage? The Drupal website. I know that I need to upgrade for example the latest Drupal release. This is for security. But I would like to know the steps. For example, model, test, security, user security, view security. I don't know if it's insist some test to test the Drupal security in the projects. Actually for Drupal quality we saw that we have that report from Coverti which states interesting data about how Drupal quality is better compared to other platforms. In terms of security, we presented some vendors such as Veracode and Qualys. I'm not sure if you know them. That also provide mechanism to scan and analyze a bunch of security measures. But I'm not sure if they have a condensate report such as the one that we got. You can also use cases in order to show the security because if you have the White House choosing Drupal, it's a really nice argument. Because even though if you cannot show the test for your client, maybe because they won't understand what actually do happening, you have these use cases that are successful histories about applying Drupal in large organizations and government and universities. I think it's an easy way to understand how it can be reliable because these organizations have also this concern about security and quality and they still choosing Drupal over other solutions on the market. Yeah, so he's saying that Acre has a white paper about Drupal security which probably has some references regarding this. The way that the White House case is very known, it's actually because we just by presenting then for most of the cases just enough to tell that Drupal is kind of secure because it's actually one of the most attacked sites of the world. If you need further information, I would reach out for the security team. They probably have much information about this. That's 43 people and the presentation is linked to these contacts of this team. And also we could contact QALIS of our code to see if they have such reports as the one that we got from CoverBD in terms of how Drupal is secure compared to other platforms. My question is what do you think about projects that once started as open source but by the time goes on there is another version that is paid and if you want a box fees for example you have to pay for it. Can you ask again because I lost some points of your question? How about projects that start as open source but by the time goes on there is another, a new version that is paid and if you want box fees or something you have to pay for them. We have a kind of recent situation directly as you said which is MySQL. Well actually I'm going to defer this to Renato but what I was going to say is that in general what I see the behavior that usually happens when this secures. You have an open source project and suddenly a company acquires it and decided to close its source. Certainly the community around will fork it and that's one of the advantages of being open sourced and another project will grow at the same time. Real example of this is when Oracle acquired MySQL and MariaDB turned out to be a forked project and if you look at performance benchmarks they are in general much better than MySQL itself that is now proprietary. So this is the common behavior that happens when you try to close an open source project. The community will grow with it by itself. It's okay. Hi this is Walter from Columbus. My question actually I noticed that Drupal.org and Drupal.com so quite big difference when you put the pictures right. So let's put it on part of Drupal.com. I belong to a multi-corporation, quite big telecommunication, quite big one. More than 25 countries and stuff like that. So in order for me to sell completely the idea I always going to have to fight hard. Why? From the point of view that I had to provide not just security aspects and things like that. It's like an engagement for my corporation with Drupal. So the question exactly is resisted like an engagement process when a big corporation want to use your solutions with the corporation itself. Regardless you have to pay whatever. Kind of like a contract, like a friendly contract, even paying of course for this kind of scenario. You need a bicycle enterprise, a nice infrastructure and stuff like that. I don't know if this is a legal question. Yeah I think so. I'd say that when you are dealing with such a huge situation I would certainly involve Acre to help on this. Because I would certainly involve Acre because for instance we are at SINT in the middle of a per-sales process with a huge financial institution. And yesterday some of our folks were to Washington to give a pitch. And we invited some guys from Alcatra to come with us and present all that stuff in terms of hosting services and engagement as well. And they have a really good team of people that can certainly help you with all that stuff you need in terms of arguments and so on. So for these more complex discussions I would certainly involve Acre. There are behinds of all these and they certainly know how to deal with it. Yeah my question is about sometimes you have ideas from managers about incorporating license software into Drupal. Making like a hybrid. What is your position on that? How do you feel about that? And what should be usually the answer that we can provide back to managers. Yeah for example they want to buy something just to manage e-learning like online classes. But it's a licensed software that we have to pay to develop. And they want then to hybrid that with our Drupal site. Which I think is creating dependencies in the long term because part of the site will be licensed. We cannot really manage that code. We don't own it. So what is your position on a case like that? What would be a good argument against that I guess my question. I'll try to let me see if I could understand well your question. So are you asking what are our position about building hybrid solutions that are licensed. So you're saying that the client will don't like this hybrid solution. Is that the point? They want to have a hybrid solution but I believe it's not a good idea. Because it's bringing paid licensed software into our Drupal site. So it creates a dependency. Because now every time that we want to make a change in that licensed software we have to pay for it. But this licensed solution is something that your client wants to be used that you cannot argue with that. They want but I'm arguing against. I don't want it. But I need more arguments I guess. Yeah sure. I think I got your question. First of all I would try to search on an equivalent open source solution. So imagine that it's an educational platform so we have Moodle for instance. And see if the functional requirements fits because a part of platform, a part of code and what we're going to do. The solution is built on top of functional requirements. So we try to map them and see if the platform fits or not or how much we're going to work on. How much we're going to adapt the platform. You know there's no how to run out of if your client really wants to use that. And you're going to be attached to that licensed platform anyway. I don't see how we can get out of this situation. If it's a client's requirement you can't argue with. So Moodle we consider Moodle right? But what their argument is they say yes Moodle but you still have to customize Moodle. One and that's going to be costly and two is too long. So their argument is like no let's buy this licensed software because they're faster. It's quicker and at the end of the day it's going to be the same money. But my question is in the long term you're creating this dependency because you will always have to pay for this particular learning every time that you need to make a change. Yeah I think if the client doesn't have the openness of trying to think different in order to see the flexibility that we'll get choosing Moodle for example. It's like actually it's true that you still have to customize some things and have like to spend hours and have costs over the building these customizations. But you already have more support by the community of this software because you can hire someone to consulting and hire some well skilled developer that builds some part of this project in order to make these customizations. And as you have the possibility to talk with these people like one by one, you have like it's easier to achieve this goal because you can talk directly with the expert that did that. So it brings like a sense of confidence using this software. And if you have like obviously you can compare the final solution that is proprietary or have license and a solution that is not like the real thing that you need but can be that if you like spend a little bit of money and time and the value that you get with this it's most significant than you choose like a proprietary software because they are not thinking in your specific case. And when you're using open source software you always could have a person that is concerned about your needs. So you'll have this flexibility, this possibilities to engage someone and the contributions that this one, this person is doing for you. It's like returns to them also because they are in an open source community and they are improving the software so everyone gains. You know it's a relation of gain and gain. So I think you should have showed this to your client because as if they are like coming into an open source world they can have like they can bring recognition because the people that use this software will remember them also because they are contributing with the evolution of this software you know. Just to finish I think that this is a much broader discussion you know but two practical things that came into my mind right now. First thing is I would go with comparison. So I do practically build a table of many subjects, many topics such as how many people are in the market so I could have to leverage Moodle or this closed platform. In long term how can I extend this platform or not, how much adoption each platform has right now in the market. You know a lot of stuff and then I can present the pros and cons of each one. And secondly I understood that some of the functional requirements that your client solution needs are missing on Moodle but most of them are okay on this closed platform. It's pretty much why the client is deciding to use this platform right. I don't know if you have already gone into a value engineering process in which you break down all those functional requirements of this project and really evaluate which ones are actually the most important for the client's business. So if you do that perhaps you can see that some of these requirements that are not built on top of Moodle but are okay. They're actually not so important for the business right now and you can yes wait a little more and leverage the solution in a middle or long term basis. You know no problem. Any more questions? 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