 Hey guys, how are you doing? It's a Sunday morning super early I don't know like how many of you struggled waking up this morning, but I really did But yeah, I'm glad that all of you could make it here It's a really interesting day, and I'm really looking forward to everyone who's gonna be speaking as well. It's really interesting so I created this chatbot called bus uncle and and Through this presentation. I'm just gonna tell you a story of how it came to be and I know that this is more of a UX design Kind of theme talk, so I tried to put in as much of that in my presentation as much as possible Even though I'm just a developer and I have no idea what design is So a lot of you might point and laugh at me and say that's wrong, but please do so at the end of the presentation So Bus uncle right? How it came to be was I was just at a bus stop in Orchard Road one day, right? I was just standing there just like all these people with my head turned right waiting for the bus to arrive and I just kept thinking to myself how long is the bus gonna take to arrive to my bus stop right all these different people had different Like things they had to do in the day, but everyone's just standing there and waiting So the thing is in Singapore We are a very high-tech city and we actually have these things Electronic boards that actually show us bus arrival timings behind You can actually look at these boards and know exactly when your next bus will arrive and when you're a subsequent bus after that We'll arrive as well, but on that one day to me I felt it was just a little too much like why do I have to look through a whole list and try to find my One single bus that I'm trying to wait for right and in Singapore We also have a lot of different apps. So you install an app. It looks just like I mean these are a couple of examples And the thing is these apps also didn't make me feel right that day for some reason when I opened the app I was like there's a lot of information and To find how long I have to wait for that one particular bus that I was waiting for right bus 65 I had to scroll through a list. I had to type in where I was and I was also given like a massive amount of sploshed information that I had to find my little one bus in answer from So the thing is in My head I just asked I wish I could ask someone right. I wish I could ask someone how long I have to wait and This one person would just tell me seven minutes like that's it I didn't want to go to a whole list or go and install a whole new app for it And that's how the bus also came to be so I I I decided I I'm going to try to build something like this So in October 2016 I mean, I actually thought of this in October 2016 But Facebook actually released a new platform on messenger called the messenger platform Which allows third-party developers to come in and build bots build these services on top of their messenger platform Which means if you chatted with something on Facebook, it would reply back to you Just like a little program. These are called chat bots, right? So I thought that Facebook released this in April 2016. It was October 2016. So I thought okay, maybe I can go try to build a chat bot So I went and built bus uncle So if you guys haven't tried it yet, you can access bus uncle like through this link m.me slash sg bus uncle You can talk to bus uncle the whole time. It's fine. I'll probably be saying the same thing. He's going to tell you as well So for those of you who are still watching When you talk to bus uncle, right you can literally just say hi hello uncle and he responds with a So then he gives you an option that says bus how long You click on it. You enter the bus you're waiting for Are you and then he tells you like where are you now? And then you can say maple tree. We're all in maple tree now And he shows you all the bus stops in maple tree and he just clicked choose and he'll say okay Still got 10 minutes. Go get groceries so Bus uncle tells you about your bus arrival timings, right? This is actually a really long conversation right now most users actually just Say what they're looking for in one message. They say I'm at maple tree looking for bus 10 How long do I have to wait then he just says 10 minutes? But this is just an example to show you another flow that shows like much more functionality there So bus uncle also does public transportation directions. So you can ask him how can I get to NUS from here? right or how can I go home you can actually ask him how can you go home and He'll show you all the different options you can take like the green line and which bus you can take and when you click on choose He'll show you step-by-step directions on how to get to wherever you want to be so What's interesting about bus uncle is? You you speak to him like a real person, right? So you can actually tell him I'm late Right, and if you tell him I'm late. He's gonna be like okay. Let me find you the fastest way there But you can also tell him things like I'm poor And if you if you tell him I'm poor he'll find you the route. That's the cheapest way there so He's he's programmed to understand like a lot more human expressions like this A more recent feature that was implemented recently is some users ask where's the bus so this actually came to came about because When I was tracking the data, I realized a lot of people when they're waiting for that bus they seemed very kiasu So if for the non-singaporeans here kiasu means afraid to lose Right, so they just kept asking bus uncle bus. How long bus how long where where bus how long where? And Then I decided okay a lot of people are actually asking where so I Realize I had this information and I could just plot it on a little map with Google Maps So then I implemented where's the bus now when people say where he says nah here Yeah And also bus uncle does public transport updates. So if ever your bus is affected by like a nationwide like Rerouting of the buses this most common during f1 times in Singapore Whenever they set up the formula one tracks They have to reroute a lot of buses and a lot of bus stops are disabled Sometimes you can ask him about it, and then he'll say sorry. They got f1. So He'll tell you you can't use the bus and you can go check the affected bus list and he'll show you alternatives as well So this is a few different things that bus uncle does all through chat. It's just a chat bot so I Built bus uncle over a year ago, and I realized through all that the data I'm getting and through all the Learnings I've seen from the community. I Realize chat bots are actually bringing us a lot more closer to the future Because conversations bring us closer to humans Think about it. We're like when you have an app or when you have a website You're building a UI you're building a user interface. You're saying this button is going to be here There's gonna be an input field here for users to put in stuff And you're actually trying to show the user how you you want them to use your own app or your own website But the difference in conversations is you don't tell them How to speak to the bot they just be themselves Humans don't really need to learn rather. They just speak and say Can this be done or can I do this or can you just tell me the answer to what I'm looking for? So it's bringing us a lot more closer to human nature, right and this is going to be leveraged upon a lot more so All the I mean even now on like social media websites you see screenshots of conversations being posted everywhere People love speaking to each other on messaging apps, right? So The left most picture is a screenshot I took off of a popular platform called sgag Which frequently shows screenshots of conversations that are funny between people and we actually laugh at it because we can relate and we feel human about it and Understand the kind of rapport that was going on between those two people you also see like screenshots of people ranting like The middle screenshot actually came from this article that says my ex-girlfriend never paid me back my money So he took a screenshot of like a whole conversation and everybody just kept commenting on it. They're like, I totally get you man and Finally like you have your own personal conversations, right? You can share ideas so when to speak is kind of to be human So There's data showing that a lot more users now are actually shifting to using a messaging apps a lot more than social media So in this graph from business insider The green line you see is the number of active users on the big four messaging apps and The blue line is the number of total users or active users on the big four social networking apps The big four messaging apps are WhatsApp We chat Telegram and Viper the big four social networking apps are Facebook LinkedIn Twitter and Instagram There's a lot more users hanging out in your messaging apps now. They're moving away from social media So what does this mean? This means The majority of users are focusing their attention in messaging and That's why people started creating chatbots so that people can speak to your services through these messaging apps So I'll take a step back and try to reintroduce what a chatbot is right for those of you who still are not Don't understand what it really is a chatbot is an intelligent chat assistant It has it has one-on-one conversations with you or it can be put in your group conversations And it could facilitate a chat for you negotiate in the group for you And these chatbots perform tasks and services very simply put So they can connect to a back-end they can connect to API's they can do math They just perform tasks and services so Back to the point of Conversations and being human right the point I wanted to make was Conversations enhance human connection So what this really means is I'm actually gonna break break the word to break the phrase human connection down into the two words human and connection So let's say Now you're trying to build a chatbot or your company's decided we're gonna build a new chatbot and you chat interface and the thing is if you want to Enhanced human connection. We really need to think about What humans are? especially when they're having conversations so In general well, this is not a perfect example of what a human is but I'd say when humans are speaking in conversations They tend to do three things right they tend to be very natural that means they don't say They don't pretend to be a robot. They don't say I'm I say next to play the next song or previous to play the previous song or click X It's close the exit sign instead humans say things like I'm bored of this song like show me a next song. So they tend to be natural Another thing is humans are also very I mean revolve around a very particular culture This culture does not have to be restrict itself to being a geographical culture but it could be a culture of how they're brought up what their interests are in so For example people who are really interested into land games Counter-strike games or stuff. They commonly use the words lead noob and Headshot in all their conversations and this stuff actually has to be understood by our chatbot So we really need to think about like the culture that humans are in and finally when humans are speaking to chatbots They really really like to participate Very simply put this means their chatbot should not be doing all the work rather. It should be collaborating with a human getting their inputs and Having a cooperative conversation to be able to like come up with an answer or come up with whatever they're looking for So Okay, before I move on to the next slides. I know the majority of you here are designers, right? So How many of you have ever felt overwhelmed by developers in your company or how many of you have felt that These the developers are not able to understand what you're trying to say and therefore you're just I mean you just can't communicate with them Okay, cool. So a few of you have actually felt this so Chatbots now Are actually being created a lot by developers and The difficult developer mindset for conversation design is actually really not that good so When chatbots are built by developers the majority of them say My chatbot will be smart and answer all the questions that the users will ask and best of all it's AI So it will self-learn, right? This is probably something you've seen on Chatbot marketing all over Facebook or all over like other websites you see and developers when they think of building chatbots. They only think about I won't say all developers most developers They only think about the technicals behind it They think about the artificial intelligence the natural language processing entities intense automation Analytics and they say the chatbot will have to give you answers and answers and answers So because most chatbots have been tried out and experimented only by developers the results For most chatbots in the world today are actually not that good So take a look at this example the NBA the NBA is a huge organization national basketball Association the NBA had a chatbot and Someone's just asking for the name of Larry Burt Who's a basketball player and the chatbots has please type in the NBA finals players name It's just not able to understand and you can see some other examples here where the chatbot says Sorry, I didn't get that or I'm not sure what you meant I'm sorry about that or some chatbots are like stuck in a constant radio loop Where they say please select an option please select an option please select an option Even though you're trying to change the context. It's not working So the thing is There's good news for you guys even though chatbots Don't really seem to have a lot of design on the on this Surface of it a lot of design actually has to go into building conversations as well so When we build a chatbot we should design for the human damage like Essentially humans are people that says I just asked for help. I just wanted the chatbot to answer my questions so humans have very very natural characteristics like feelings Experiences and when they speak to chatbots the mid a lot of them will tend to be very very random with your chatbots and Like like for example boss uncle a lot of users actually ask him where's boss auntie or and A really common finding is a lot of users when they start a new conversation with a new chatbot They just tend to like be very naughty and try to play around with swear words all the way in the start So you could see you're saying fuck fuck fuck, but the chatbots just like I mean most chatbots are not able to understand that so the thing is Humans when they speak to chatbots they tend to Ask things like questions They put out expressions and they try to be cooperative with the chatbot So this is how I guess When we think of designing a conversational and experience we really got to think about who's the human behind it and In the end conversation design is all about the loop between What the developers can do and what the what the humans can give right so? the developers can say my chatbot is powered by AI and it has NLP and It gets all this data and it gives these answers But at the same time it should keep learning and the designers should keep saying that I'll keep Telling the developers that Don't just do that Humans tend to be natural when speaking to the chatbot. So that's where that comes in So this how a chatbot constantly develops Now the second part of conversations and the human connection is the connection part of it and what this means is Chatbots are inherently social and chatbots can actually be used to Help a community So think about it like chatbots exist on messaging apps, right? They exist on Facebook They exist on WeChat They exist on Viber all these are actually social networks these networks actually allow you to connect people together and Because of that there's a huge advantage that these chatbots have So let's compare an experience from a chatbot to an experience from an app like a typical app on your phone so apps produce generally isolated unrelated experiences Right and every new app you install has a learning curve when you install it You got to look at a user interface you got to figure out how to use it and there's a typical onboarding flow Where you got to log in register and you got to register and log in for every single new app that you have So they tend to be generally be very top-down so if there are two apps from two competitors they try to get the same information from different users and They try to provide individual isolated experiences to these different users. So this is actually not that efficient Because you don't want your users Continually always registering a new account every time they act they have a new service things like that, right? Well, let's take a look at bots Bots chatbots they live on social networks and when they live on social networks, it means they can connect to people and They can connect to each other as well. It's really interesting so One bot imagine one bot has spoken to these three users, but the second bot hasn't spoken to these three users The thing is if if the second bot and this first bot come to a partnership the first bot can actually pass all this information to the second bot and That way the user doesn't even have to register or go log in to use the second bot. It already has the information about you so it's all on the social networks and What's nice is because it's on a social network. It's on a familiar and inherently social interface so Inherently, I mean like essentially these eliminate the friction of apps So now back to bus uncle, right? enough of my lecture So bus uncle went viral when bus uncle was launched Essentially in the start He had a very few users like maybe 200 or 300 but he got picked up by a lot of social journalism websites and I remember Okay, let's go back to the story. I launched bus uncle on October 26 2016 October 25th 2016 and A few days in I had been getting like oh the way I launched it is actually put it on my own social on my Facebook profile so Essentially as I told my own friends Hey guys, I released a new bot called bus uncle. Just go try it out It was literally just meant for my own friends on Facebook not meant for anyone else the thing about bus uncle is My friends really enjoyed having conversations with him that they start screenshotting the conversations and start posting it on their profiles So when they did that their friends who are not my friends also started using bus uncle and Those were people that I did not intend bus uncle Do to be users of So that way bus uncle actually spread virally for a few days. I got maybe 20 new users 30 new users every day But just on the fifth day that he was out bus uncle Like was seen by a really popular social journalism website called mothership.sg If some of you might know that they're really really popular amongst millennials here in Singapore so when mothership Had their eyes on bus uncle. They actually published an article about bus uncle without contacting me first and They published that article about bus uncle and that was a Day of a hell for me because when they did that I got so many new users So to give you a perspective, I remember it was on a Friday on a Friday at 2 p.m. I had about 220 users at most and Just four hours passed by it went to 6 p.m. Oh wait mothership.sg posted the article at 2.30 And what's at a 6 p.m. I had like 8,500 users speaking to bus uncle So that was I mean is good. It's a good problem to have But the thing is I literally just meant bus uncle to be just for my friends on Facebook So he wasn't intended to handle all that traffic I used free versions of everything that said you can have a maximum of this many users right and When that happened essentially when 8,000 people were trying to speak bus uncle at the same time Naturally, he just kept crashing right so I Remember that they was like really really Stressful for me because I had to just keep going to my web server and say restart restart restart like every 10 minutes just to make sure that the new users who came in got a little bit of the bus uncle experience and Over time bus uncle actually got viral people start sharing more about him and also on the back end on my side I actually was developing the infrastructure for it to be able to handle a lot more load. So now he's stable now it's fine, but Bus uncle actually did go viral and a lot of people asked me What do you think made your chatbot go viral because I've seen a lot of chatbots out there and they suck I Wouldn't say this is like the perfect answer to it. It's just my perspective to it But I bowled it down to these three points one is bus uncle has a very unique personality Right. He's snarky. He's witty. He's grumpy and you speak to him. He might scold you sometimes and then you Complain about the bus being late. He'll scold you back and saying just wait like stop complaining so he has a very very unique personality that kind of allows the people in Singapore to be reminded of a typical grumpy uncle Here in Singapore and that makes them actually feel for it. So Most people don't actually call bus uncle bus uncle. They actually call him uncle So it's very typical of Singaporeans or people residing in Singapore to call their older people uncle and auntie. So it's something they could relate to There's a culture around there So one thing is he had a very unique personality and the culture really made sense Another thing is bus uncle has a non-linear conversational flow This essentially means he can speak to you and your random messages you send him a lot of chatbots They depend on a very linear conversation where you start with a message a and it has to end at a message b And if you try to jump off in the middle the chatbot will say either I don't understand I'll just be like that radio loop again. That says tell me it Tell me where you are. Tell me where you are. Tell me where you are but bus uncle I try to design him in such a way that anyone could speak to anything to him and It has it just have to try to understand what they're trying to say. It's called Nonlinear conversational flow another more popular term for it. It's called a random access navigation So you guys can like go Google that as well Yeah, so for example if you're speaking to him and asking him for a bus You can say I'm at maple tree then he'll say okay your maple trees and which bus are you looking for? And suddenly you get random right you say feeling sleepy You'd actually tell I'm feeling sleepy to bus uncle most other chatbots will be like that's not a bus but But bus uncle says go sleep la and Finally the really really important thing That bus uncle does that a lot of chatbots fail to do is he gives you answers Very simply put a chatbot must give you answers you speak to a chatbot Starts probing you with a lot of questions users will always tend to like just drop off They're gonna be like I don't want to be questioned by this robot Like just give me what I'm looking for he gives you answers upfront. You tell him exactly where you are I'm at bus stop 50119 and I'm waiting for bus 95 Something like that and he'll say yeah three minutes. He gives you exactly what you're looking for So that's also important and that's a reason why he went viral people found utility in that so after bus uncle I Decided to take some of these learnings and go and join a really big hackathon called startup weekend Singapore That Gail was just talking about she's one of the organizers and my team and I Decided to use some of these practices to design another chatbot called ketchup Ketchup is your local travel companion in Medan, Indonesia It's it's really really different from what bus uncle does here in Singapore It's because we wanted to try something new a whole new vertical a whole new geographical territory and in this example What ketchup is doing is he's just saying hey you've landed at the airport. Let me take you to your hotel so When the user says cool, let's go. He actually gives you like very local Tribal information that's actually really hard to find online he says don't take the ubers here or don't take the grabs here and He says you should not take that because they're actually really dangerous you should just take these blue blue cabs called blue birds and They're a lot more safer. So he gives you this like this tribal information. That's actually normally hard to find and also It's really fast here. I'm sorry. I can't really show you but The user says the cab driver speaking to me in Bahasa, Indonesia. I don't understand So the user saying ketchup help me So then what ketchup does is he says, okay, let me translate this for you He shows them a whole Indonesian paragraph and he says show this to your driver So we designed I mean this is one example of a travel chat bot that we did and We went ahead and we won we won startup weekend It says we won $50,000 but it's in prizes. So there's not a real cash Yeah, but it's good like we all got iPhone 10s and drones and stuff. So it's good. Um, but essentially What we learned from this was those those practices hold true like those attributes of good chatbots actually hold true And we tried to apply it to catch up so I guess takeaways on Chatbot design, right? Like when you think about when you design a chatbot when you design a conversational user interface What do you need really really need to think about first things first? foremost very important Leverage on the power of conversation Don't make your chatbot just blast out information to the users all the time and not understand what the user is trying to say don't use chat a chatbot as a tool just to Get new users but rather use it as a tool to understand users more It's it's cause humans the people be speaking behind the chatbots The humans are the heroes when you build your chatbot, right? The chatbot's not the hero the humans are the heroes and the chatbots are just like the sidekicks that are trying to help them What they want but everything you do in a chatbot needs to be about the person speaking to it and Finally chatbots live on social networks There's a huge advantage like they can connect people together. They can connect to each other together like use that as an advantage that's That'll get you like a huge marketing boost So also, what's the future, right? What's the future of chatbots? Some do you guys know who and recent Horowitz is? So and recent Horowitz is a really really popular VC in the US a venture capitalist who invests a lot in tech startups and deep tech startups So they actually predicted that in the next five years People are going to be asking Where's the NLP version of this or rather? How can I speak to your service? Like I don't want to download an app. I don't want to go to your website Like how can I speak to your service? They say chatbots are going to be so prevalent that almost every service It's actually going to be able to speak to you So their chatbots are definitely going to be a lot more prevalent in the future Also, they can talk to each other as I had shown you about the network side of it and finally Chatbots are actually not the future Like because chatbots are just the first step to the future There's going to be a lot more instant services with voice with touch with visuals people are inventing VR people are inventing AR is getting a lot more prevalent and a lot more services are going to be consumed and A lot more waste than just clicking buttons on a cell phone screen So chatbots is just the first step that shows that services can be provided in a different way than clicking buttons on a screen But it's gonna it's gonna evolve. There's gonna be a lot more different services So the vision of boss uncle company, which is The company and I'm doing right now that we are building Chatbots who are AI friends who collaborate to solve the citizens problems. So I showed you about ketchup, right? so ketchup was actually like one chatbot but Because we want to leverage on the power of social we want these chatbots to talk to each other So one thing we want to do is when users speak to ketchup and say, how can I get I'm in Singapore now? How can I get to MBS ketchup will say hold on let me get my friend boss uncle and Boss uncle suddenly comes to the user from the back and says, oh, hey ketchup told me you're looking for Directions to MBS here take bus 57 from here So we want to build these different services that actually collaborate in the back To help you get shit done Yeah What we're doing right now and this more marketing materials what we're doing right now is Brand partnerships and chatbot development under the bus uncle company. So brand partnerships is With bus uncle because he gets so much traffic because he has a lot of fans and followers. He's kind of like an influencer so We've actually partnered with some big brands before like Mastercard and BBC and We actually help them communicate some of their products and services through bus uncle's voice in your conversations Some of you may have seen it. Some of you may have not but essentially bus uncle is Singapore's only AI influencer right now So we do brand partnerships And we also do chatbot development This is to help you and your company Build your first chatbot and make it really awesome. So if you're interested, you can just talk to me after this And that's us bus uncle. You guys have questions Right Oh Yeah, thanks for that. Those are fair questions So the first question was about culture, right? Sometimes when you try to build a chatbot that tries to fit a particular culture You might actually be missing out some on some other users outside this culture and kind of be destructive and kind of destructive Experience with them. So how do I mitigate that? well I'm actually seeing the majority of foreigners who don't understand singlish Actually have a positive experience with the with bus uncle. This is because The foreigners who are living here in Singapore who know singlish is a really common medium of language Actually tell their friends who are coming into Singapore and Tell them if you want to learn singlish talk to bus uncle So that's actually really interesting. I wasn't expecting that I was I was thinking it's gonna be something like what you said that Foreigners just wouldn't understand and they just not use bus uncle But then it's you're right I do have some users who really don't understand bus uncle and they've given me two star Three star ratings just because they say I don't understand, but that's fine. That's that was a risk. I was willing to take anyway So about the culture part of it. Yeah Again, it's just about Building a product that people really will love right as a user researcher in general. We always got to Characterize who our final user is gonna be It's very similar to the culture part of the user of a chatbot We just really need to formalize who's gonna be speaking to the chatbot and who's the majority of the people Who's gonna be speaking to the chatbot and build it for them like we can't build a chatbot That's gonna solve all users problems and be comfortable with all users like one example is a lot of people in Singapore don't really talk to a Siri or Alexa, but it's a lot more popular in the US There's that's a culture part of it as well The second part of the question was You've built two products. They're both male. How's that? affecting your Views are all why did you come to that decision? so You're right we could have built another female chatbot as well and This was actually Something that we hadn't really thought about very deeply into when we build it that when we built that persona yet but it is very very important to Like make sure that your chatbot either has a gender or doesn't have a gender as well There's a lot of research article that's that's say Siri and Alexa Because they tend to be women People don't actually really use it for what it's intended to like it's I mean and To put it bluntly a lot more males actually sexually harass these chatbots It's really weird to think about it, but this actually is a problem I have a friend who built a female chatbot here in Singapore The female chatbots her name is Tushin JJ. I'm not sure if he's here Okay, he's not here. So Tushin JJ is a chatbot Who finds you need the nearest tutors around your area? like tutoring lessons with them, right and He built it around the personality of JJ. JJ is basically being sister and The the avatar of JJ is like a really beautiful girl and It doesn't have anything to show off tutoring. I don't really understand why that was just a really beautiful girl in the form of cartoon and when he launched this a Week after he launched this he came to me and he said hey a lot of guys are harassing my chatbot. What do I do? So This is a real problem, right? I'm not I'm really not sure what the the answer to this is but I guess to try to mitigate Some of these problems are to be on the safer side in general either make your chatbot have no gender at all or The second safest option is maybe to make them male But the thing is I also launched a boss auntie. So But something is not alone in this in April this year. I introduced his wife boss auntie who is his wife and Now sometimes users can speak to boss uncle and sometimes they speak to boss auntie as well So I tried to I tried to like reduce the pressure in that area from that as well Yeah There any other questions there was this facility in Basanti called tickle uncle I see it's not there anymore So I'm more interested in hearing the story behind it Like what was the feedback that ended up in newly moving thinking uncle because it was very nice Stop As you can see well, it's very ridiculous. So Tickle uncle still exists. It's not been removed yet. Oh really might might be a bug So essentially what this is a form of Pagination if you guys know what pagination is it literally means if you have a lot of information You got to try to group it into clusters and make these clusters navigable between each other so Very common form is on tumbler and wordpress when you see like 20 posts then at the bottom of the page you say you have to you want to go to page 2 and Essentially, that's paginating information. Similarly for boss uncle when you search for a bus stop Sometimes he gives you a lot more bus stops than Facebook messengers allowed to show Facebook messengers allowed to show a maximum of 11 Different items and a group. So if for example someone search for Orchard which has a lot of bus stops maybe 22 bus stops the last the last Item that you can click is this one little card which has a button called tickle uncle on it and Essentially when you click tickle uncle, he just says, haha, I'll show you more results It's just a form of pagination. Yeah, and it's literally meant to be like weird and fun and The feedback I got in general was It's no one had like negative views of it a lot of people like just burst out nothing about it And I've been tracking the data as well and it says users They've been positives and sentiments from a user's response after they clicked on tickle uncle, which is weird But yeah, it's just to add to the culture point of view. So to make boss uncle cute or fun, I just had it done Okay, great any other questions Because I do have one question if no one's going one last question Okay, so because you know being having a bot is an emerging feature in the latest few years So how have you you know from your time and trade gecko? Like how do you actually learn about how to build a really really good experience for a bot? Especially in Singapore where Siri wasn't even successful or a company like Apple wasn't successful How have you built a bot has become so popular with the Singapore local culture? And how do you actually win a hackathon in just 52 hours with another bot? Where do you start like how can bot enthusiasts begin their journey? Okay, that's a real question, but in general the question is How has your experience in trade gecko and my previous company helped me do this? How and how have I learned so much about it in such a short amount of time? Well Previously I was in this startup called trade gecko if you guys have heard of them. They're an inventory management SAS platform That aims to help younger businesses manage the back ends of their business so I really really really like trade gecko because trade gecko is one SAS platform that makes something so boring like managing Excel sheets in a business actually fun and actually Interesting to use trade gecko is very very design heavy When I was there we had 15 engineers, but 11 designers, so we were actually very very design heavy and That actually taught me a lot about how to think more about users perspectives like previously I was more of a typical back-end Developer like who really had no idea what the user was going to do on the screen at any time like normally I'd just say it works, but at trade gecko I'd have a lot of conversations with my designer friends and We'd have like really interesting Arguments on saying why a button should have a three pixel radius rather than a ten pixel radius So I learned a lot about design from fear gecko and that actually helped me Kind of translate some design part of it into the experience of bus uncle as well and I guess How I learned like so much about chat bus in a short amount of time It's just because when bus uncle went viral another thing I learned from trade gecko is we got to track everything We got to track your data across every single interface right so When bus uncle was launched I had installed tracking so I knew every time a user even said the word Hi or by I knew every single time a user felt sad in a part of a conversation I'd been tracking so much about it because I've been tracking so much about it I'd have all these dashboards in the back that show my chatbot analytics like success rates and retention and failure rates and through this I'd actually kind of learn and optimize a lot on how to make the experience better so primarily Primarily, I guess it's just because it got a lot of data and I'd been tracking it that I'd learned a lot about this stuff Okay. Thank you. Have a lash. Thank you so much