 This is great coffee, by the way. Oh, I'm glad you like it So we're at your house. Yeah, and you work from home, which I think is super cool Our is kind of messy. It's very messy. Yes, and it takes up a lot of space Yes, and you have to be really organized and you have to you have to make it work Right because you especially when you work in you when you live and work in the same space That's right. It has to be livable. Yes, you have to clean all the time. Yeah So people are always shocked that I work right here off of my kitchen Everything is done right here. And really this is the best spot for me because of the natural light Yeah, I can't work anywhere else. It has to be here. I Could work in bigger areas, but I just it's not conducive to working So I really really need the windows and the light to have all my stuff right here my inks This is what I work with alcohol inks. You know, I have tables, but most of the time I end up actually on the floor Oh, that's so awesome. I could have probably just like four tables and I never end up actually using them I end up on the floor. Oh, yeah, it's just it right kids have a lot figured out actually like if you look at kids work Yeah, they're so intuitive. They're so impulsive. They go with what catches their eye. Yeah, and they just give her I don't have those thoughts about what stops them or what you know, like why not just yeah, give her Yes, like why not just like just grab the next thing and go work fast and work with it It's such exuberance. Yeah, and I'm always thinking about like, you know, what why don't I do that? Why don't I? That's right. So how about for you? What is it like for you with your, you know, what us a lot of times? I actually honestly don't have one. I just sit down and I grab a piece of paper and you know Don't get me wrong. I have some direction of color that I had to start with Yep, but sometimes what I visualize in my mind will not end up being the same thing, which I think is great So let's look at this beautiful piece right here. Yeah, this is huge for you, right? Like it is It's huge. Yeah, I had the curator from the local hospital come by and just say, you know I we'd like some pieces and then she said have you done a 30 by 60 before and I said no But I'm willing to give it a go. So take us through your process in terms of like, you know What's first? What's second? What's third for your particular? I think the the shape first So this is all UFO paper and all alcohol ink on UFO So this took me I would say about a week just to visualize how I wanted to take it I took just scrap paper and kind of drew on the panel first the shapes that I wanted to go with and then just Rearranged it in my head so many times actually for this piece And then decided on you know color and then layering and then the circles are all hand-cut like everything is You know people I say, oh, do you not use a little punch or press? I'm like, no, no, why why hand-done? I got organic feel. Yeah, that's what's nice about it because it's never the same twice It all works together, but it's never the same twice Like are you kind of cutting things out arbitrarily are you cutting did you cut this piece for this spot? I just want to know I'm just yeah So essentially I the main piece is the blue in the background So I did that and then these were my two next pieces these big pieces here And then the layers on top of that so I knew in my mind that I wanted these circles to go on to that layer Initially and then I actually had them overlapping initially and then I changed my mind and yeah them that way so yeah, it's working It's really looking so nice For Dave and I we were we met because we had a mutual love of art And we were we were artists and then we were using resin and then we didn't like that brand of resin And we tried to find something that something better and it didn't exist. So we kind of are entrepreneurs by accident Yeah, but it's kind of nice that we were artists first because we use the same tools in business as we use as Making a painting and you know you just you get a new idea and it excites you and you follow that path And see what'll lead you and yeah kind of always Looking for those surprising wins along the journey. Yeah, that's right. Yeah for sure So you can relate to that I think so and it helps for me because my husband is a numbers guy He's you know business. So he's always turning out. Okay. Well, you know, how are you gonna make money and and where you get it? You know, what's your cost of materials and your ROI and all these things? Oh, yeah, it's a realist Does that help you it does because I think as an artist you can go on this tangent and you're in La La Land and you're creating all this stuff and you know But at the end of the day, are you making any money? Like, how are you? How are you making an income from it? so that's the great thing for me is because I have e-courses and YouTube and selling online and selling in the community. There's lots of different ways for artists to actually Earn a living not just one avenue or yet. There's lots of different ways. Yeah nowadays for sure for sure So you just have a different portfolio. That's right. As your husband might think. Yes Don't put all your eggs in one basket as they say, right? Yeah Open your mind to other other things even though it's under the umbrella of art But there's lots of different ways that you can sell online. Well, I know there's a with, you know The little mod minis I sell every month out online perfect every month. So I sell out So people are like, how do you do that? But yeah, there's a campaign and strategy and marketing around doing that. Yeah, that works for me And so I think that'll be the next progression is e-courses on how to actually sell art online Well, and it all is value, right? You're bringing value in the artwork and you're bringing value in the know-how Yeah, and so yeah, like why not monetize all of that if this is who you are you're an artist or a through Yes, make it work for you. I totally agree with that You know, some people will say like, oh, I don't want to sell my art because I don't want to you know Take you know that piece of my myself and sell it and I say why not? Yeah, what yeah my personally like I say why not because it's it's fun And then you you know you recoup those funds to do it again. That's right So what do you do so for you because I know you're like you're constantly posting an Instagram Yeah, make amazing YouTube tutorials. What have you learned from that experience? What works? What doesn't work? What what's your kind of go-to or what's your advice about all of that sort of? Yeah, I think each platform is different, you know the people that are on Instagram that follow me are different to those on YouTube So you have to have different tactics of how you reach and and communicate with those people But for Instagram because it's obviously so visual you have to know how to take you know, just the right picture I mean I just go over here at my table where there's natural light or even here and just really hone in on the picture posts that I want to focus on and Just make sure you have a nice clear bright Picture that everybody you know is inspired by I don't think you have to post like six times a day That's not necessary. No, that might actually be a turn off. I think so. Yeah, just two times three times a day I think is all you need really. Yeah, and I'm always talking with people every day on Each of those platforms and I guess so many questions that I've just come to a point where I'm just going to make E-courses and showcase all of these things So I love putting together the video and the editing portion of it and just creating that type of product for people Being online. I think people just think it's easy You just throw your stuff up there and it's gonna sell and and everyone's gonna find you But it doesn't work that way even on social media. I find I think you still have to reach out to people Connect with people. There's still strategy and how you sell online Which is huge and a lot of people don't understand that they have all these pieces of beautiful art And they just don't know how to go about selling it online. Yeah artists are You know for better for worse, they're artists. That's right They're not necessarily marketers. They don't necessarily have a business sense And I think that's where the gallery model has always come into play Yes for someone to take this work and sell it to the people who can who are willing to purchase it So I wanted so my question to you is um because not everybody Cares to share. No people are worried I think artists are scared to share their information and to be honest with you I don't know why I think if you want people to respect you as a brand and a person I think there's nothing wrong with sharing that with others. I think it goes a long way and If you're confident in your own work and your abilities, then you really have nothing else to worry about it I know a lot of people well if I show them this technique or I do that Then they're just gonna copy me and steal. Yeah, you know what the world is a big place if someone's actually going to copy you then They're gonna do it regardless and I just you can't worry about those things. You just have to move forward with your own I mean if you're worried about that stuff You're never going to move forward with your own brand and your own focus and your own art Mm-hmm. I think ultimately how closely can you really copy a signature when you can't and especially this medium alcohol? You can't duplicate it. Yeah, so I mean I don't even think I could replicate that again if I tried and I know this from being an art Teacher all those years. I would you know create an assignment for my students and say okay We're all gonna for example We're all gonna do alcohol ink on you paper and it's gonna be a collage piece with that resin on top Yeah, and everybody's would look completely that's right. Yeah, they're all doing the same style It would all look different and sometimes it would be like all I like I would see some kids working I'd be like, oh, I never thought of that I never knew that that was something that you would interpret from what these assignment, you know kind of was was So that's the best part about art to me though It's so exciting that you know everybody's gonna put their own spin on it and you know have their own signature on it and Bring out something bring something to life. That was not alive before that's right So you don't sell through galleries No, but I think it's a great, you know way to go if that's what you'd like to do Yeah, it works. So it does work sort of the older model that still works, right? And I think you have to look at different avenues of selling especially if you want to gain the exposure But do you sell on Etsy or Amazon handmade or anything? I don't use any of those sites I know Etsy is very popular, but I personally like to be in control of my own destiny I have my own website and I do everything myself within Wix. It's just an entire umbrella of Automated email marketing Your email list everybody knows the money is in the list and people forget that when you're on Instagram and YouTube and Facebook We don't own those accounts, right? We're you know, we're just using it to reach people and Somebody poses a question. What will happen if all of those platforms shut down? How are you going? Oh my god? I'll have so much more time, right Kind of want that to happen now that you make that suggestion How will you make money? Yeah, if you don't have your list Yeah, how are you going to connect with those people? Good point. So you have to have a way to build a list Yeah, and you know you use those platforms as a vehicle to do that So once you you've generated that list then you can communicate with those people and sell to those people But you can't do that without a list, right? It's the most important thing about online selling One thing yeah, if I could give any advice to anybody about selling you have to have a list What is going to drive people to actually sign up for your list? What kind of value are you offering to people that will make them want to buy from you down the road, right? So important Yeah, the the internet has given Sort of it's flipped sales models on their head whereas you used to have to you know, you would walk in and Drop your money in exchange for goods. Yeah Now it's like I'm going to give you stuff for free in the hopes that you will give me your attention That's right, but you build community when you do that, which I think is such an exciting thing for artists Yes, because yeah people who are generally interested in you or like art resin or whatever They are interested in that world So they want to see what you do they want to know what you do they want to like, you know They it's inspiring. Yes, and you know artists need other artists to be inspired to you to keep the inspiration going Be an artist you're used to Problem-solving and you're used to having a vision where it's not perfectly clear where you're going, but you're Courageous enough to venture down a certain path You know you trust your creativity enough to know that you know we can figure this out And it's a worthwhile journey. It's exciting. Yeah, you know like that whole world less travel thing Is is the same road less traveled for an artist as it is for an entrepreneur You know being an artist you do need to make the numbers work in order to keep your business alive But you also need to have fun in order to keep your business alive. Yeah, you have to wear all hats too as an artist That's the thing that I think a lot of people who are creative don't understand that you have to Be doing all of those things though even the things that you don't like in order to be successful But you constantly need to Figure things out in order for your brain to be stimulated and I think that's why people like Creativity is because you're always figuring out new things. Yes, and having these wins along the way Yeah, yeah, see that's a great combination right there the green and the yellow. Yeah, it looks like a face This is how I feel in your studio