 I was working on things beforehand where you feel like you're in a boat, you have one foot in one boat, another foot in another boat, because both are very demanding, beginnings of a startup and you're, it's like a demanding job. So I felt torn, I knew I had to walk away from one or the other. So anyways, I got this time back to really explore if I liked it. And I caught the bug so hard that month and a half, I just loved every aspect of it. I loved how challenging it was. And after that month and a half, I just knew that this was the path for me. This is Start of Distortion. The podcast will re-inspire entrepreneurship through truth. Today's guest is Sashi Shandran, founder of Teedrops. Sashi found a way to eliminate the teabag by pressing T into fun little shapes. Just drop them in hot water, et voila, you've got T. What's most impressive about Sashi's story, though, is not that she found a way to eliminate the teabag, but that she shows how to build a successful company through incremental progress and learning from mistakes along the way. There was no aha moment, just a series of steps that eventually led her to running a national brand and raising millions of dollars in VC funding. So listen in as we cover everything from why she initially wanted to sell customizable made-to-order cookies, tips for digital marketing both in the present and future, and how Chrissy Teigen became her company's biggest fan. Now back to the episode. Welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to the founder of Teedrops. Sashi, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Tell us a little bit about your company. So Teedrop is a bagless form of tea. I call it a bath bomb, except it's actual tea. That's the best way to visually think of it. And so you drop it in hot water. Now we have a version where you can drop into cold water, stir it, and essentially you have tea within 15 seconds instead of the traditional teabag of steeping it for five to seven minutes. So loose leaf tea where you have to steep it or bag tea, which is kind of messy. What made you want to start it? Like, what was the thing where you were like, this whole teabag thing has to go? Well, I think it was iterative. I think the first part of it all is that I love tea. I grew up in a very tea centric household. I was telling you a little bit earlier, my mom, she grew up in Fall River, Massachusetts. But she's originally from China. And my dad is from Sri Lanka, which is an island off the coast of India. And both of those countries at one point were the largest producers of tea in the world. And so that culture, you can't just kind of rid it when you come to the US. You bring that along, you introduce your kids to the ritual of tea. And for me, you know, tea's always been this kind of like we're doing now where we have tea in front of us and it's a point of connection and having honest dialogue with your community, with your relatives. And that's what tea represented in my household. And so I always love that aspect of it. And I tried to share that with my friends in high school. But what really was the genesis for teedrops is during one of my first corporate jobs, which was at eBay in the Bay Area. I remember at my work desk, because I love tea, I would have an arsenal of equipment, so I would have a kettle, a strainer, my loose leaf tea cans. I would prepare it the traditional way. And by the time I would prepare it, which would take, you know, seven minutes, sometimes I would have to run to my next meeting. And if I use a teabag, I would not know where to dispose of it or it would be just this messy experience. So that got me thinking about, you know, why isn't there an easier way to make a cup of tea? That's fascinating. What did you do at eBay? I first started market research, which is basically understanding consumer behavior, how people make decisions. And then I was put into this rotation program within marketing. So I would spend six months in different areas from display marketing, email marketing. Do you think a part of that really like helped you to want? Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was going to say. Definitely. Very relevant. I basically use like everything I learned. It was kind of a crash course, you know, certain disciplines that you learned in a corporate environment, which is just hard to get at like a startup or anywhere else. And then, yeah, the skill set of different marketing lovers that you can use totally came. Yeah. I usually tell people to quit their jobs, but I think some jobs have the potential for the exposure, which can then translate to you being that much better at starting anything because you've seen it all to some degree. Well, I also think that there's this like urge sense of urgency. I don't know if it's, um, wait, what's like recent generate? Is it called Gen Z where they just like, you know, want to, are you not Gen Z? I know we're millennials. We're millennials. Yeah. So where you kind of want to like move fast, right? And that also relates to your career, everything, but there is a certain, um, process you go through in being at, you know, a more corporate environment, learning certain skill sets that you then can then depart and, and kind of go on your own path. But like there are certain fundamentals, I think you learn in a more structured environment. So what was your first step in deciding to solve the problem? Oh, um, well, it was just experimenting in my kitchen, you know, I bought tea leaves online and spices and then started just like blending them together, basically, um, learning like the properties of loose leaf tea, you know, why, why there, why, what's the difference between a green tea and Oolong tea, a black tea, um, which is just about the oxidization levels. And just experimented that way for about a year and a half. And it only dawned on me to kind of make it in this form of a bath bomb, maybe six months into it. Was there a eureka moment like you threw in a bath bomb? I think it literally was seeing a bath bomb and being like, why can't tea look like that? You know, and then just working backwards. And yeah. And then also going to your grocery store and saying like, why is no one doing this? It kind of, I always describe it as like just, you know, it just seems so stupid that, you know, tea is this thousand, this beverage thousands of years old and yet no one has, no one has innovated on it. Yeah. So then I was like, okay. Yeah. It'll never, I always think about that. I'm like, why hasn't this changed? I think about that a bunch of stuff in a way it has. There used to be splinters in it. I mean, so, so, and now people are trying to spend around for a long time. So now people are going back to the days. Yes. Yeah. Makes sense. You go for it. I think the pandemic, uh, toilet paper shortage really scared people. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But then like, if you leave your house and you go to some place that doesn't have the bidet, you're stuck and you got to go back to, yeah. Desolate times. Was there, were there any complications along the process of like, so you saw the bath bomb and you're like, well, why can't I make this in a T form? Like, were there complications from, from point A to point B? Where, where you got it? There was just a lot of experimentation that went into it. How do you do it? Is it just like cutting everything up to finer, finer, finer? It's like almost like grinding it to a point where it's a matcha powder. Okay. And then, um, so then the next step was actually, I had, I pat in the idea. Um, and we just received our patent like last month. Oh, congrats. So it's novel. So it's a, yeah, it's an innovation in terms of grinding the tea. Um, there's a pressure compression process that it goes through. And, um, with the spices and sugar. Yeah. Do you need any binding agents or to help it hold the shape? So for our sweeten version, yeah, sugar. Um, but we also have an unsweetened version, which we, which is, um, just basically pressure compressed together. So, so yeah, it's, so that was the next step is, is like figuring out the formula and then I didn't have the resources or money to patent, you know, the idea. So I went to a local business resource center called score. Um, they give, are they local to LA? No, they're, they're actually a national organization and they give business advice that it's like, it's like retired people who give, mostly retired people who give, you know, like mentorship mentor mentoring advice. And so I went there a few times and I ended up meeting someone who, I believe he was a retired attorney or had some kind of legal background, but he's like, why don't you, you know, write your own provisional patent on this. And, um, an angel. Yeah. And so I was like, Oh, I could do that. So I just spent the next two weeks going on the USPTO site, looking at all the previous T patents, everything that's ever been done. Um, and then drafting my own. And that's the basis of like the patent that ended up, you know, I was able to secure. Yeah. Was that initial? At some point where, when you were making it, did you go right into raising capital or was it all? No, no, no, I don't think at that point I even knew what an angel investor was or what raising capital meant or entailed. Like that was a, that was a multi-step process. Um, what was your first product? What, uh, so the first T we ever came out with was a, is a chai that's called our chai spice. Was there a reason behind it? It was that like the, is that the most popular type of tea? So you wanted to capitalize on that? It was my favorite type of tea. Good enough. I just started making it in my kitchen. I was like, well, yeah, I like chai, so I'm going to make a tea, my, that's going to be the first tea drop. Um, and I didn't sell it, you know, commercially at that point, I just started sharing it with my colleagues. I was still working full-time. So I just started sharing it with, um, my coworkers, um, at that time, I remember like my birthday was coming up and I was like, oh, you get the most visibility on your Facebook page on your birthday, because everyone's wishing you at that time before, before they change. That's singing outside the box. Before they change everything. And now you can just like, you don't have to go to visit the person's page to wish them a happy birthday. Anymore, but that's, that's how you did. So I was like, I'm going to announce that I'm doing this teedrop thing on my birthday. And then, um, so I wrote like, Hey, I'm launch, I'm like thinking of launching this, um, I will give you, you know, I'll send you samples if you agree to take a survey for me and, and give me feedback. So, um, I had a lot of people respond, I think over 70 or so who wanted samples. And so I sent them out, like I had my little prototypes. I sent it out and then, um, yeah, just sort of getting feedback on like what people liked, what people didn't. Now, how did you know to do that? Is, is, is the user feedback specifically, has it really like the survey? Is that something you learned that you've got? Well, it's my background is market research. So that entails the part of quantitative surveys, qualitative surveys, um, always like checking in with the customer, figuring out what they want. Um, I guess I didn't realize this, but then, you know, subsequently everyone tells me like, Oh, you're, you're like a born marketer and I didn't think of myself that way, but, um, Most entrepreneurs, they end up spending all this time building something that nobody likes because they're afraid to ask the market. Yeah. And when they do ask the market, they're typically wrong. Right. Specifically if there's like five flavors, they pick their favorites only to learn, you know, the one thing they ordered the least of is the thing that people like the most. And it's hard to, you know, putting yourself out there. Oh yeah. I mean, if you're so emotionally attached to a concept or idea, so to, to have people, you know, like try space was, it's definitely not our top seller, but it's something that I came up with first because I really like the blend, but because I had a researcher background, I always was in tune with like, are people liking this? Yeah. That was your specific knowledge. Is there anything that you learned in that research phase that shocked you? Were you like, I was right. I think partially I was just pleasantly surprised at how receptive people were to it. There was actually a moment before that part of it where I was, I like announced it on my birthday. So I had a lot of other failed business ideas before this, just, you know, to put it out there. But I never started a serious business at all. It would be like, you were dabbling. I was dabbling. Yeah. I was dabbling, but one of the similar products. I did like teen few soaps for a while. I did these certain tea cookies. And then that evolved to this concept, which I still think is a great idea for you guys or no one wants to take it, but it's basically like the cold stone model, but for cookies. So imagine like having a cookie base, like you could have a vegan base or, you know, just a cookie dough base, made in front of you, mix in, baked on the spot. Yeah. Freshly baked cookie on the spot. Six, seven minutes. That's low turnover, though. That's bad throughput. No, because if you get like a certain type of industrial oven, which I do think exists today, you could probably bake it within two minutes. I hate it. Only because of the throughput. Like throughput gets me. It kills me every time I go anywhere, specifically like a coffee shop or a cold stone or Ben and Jerry's. I'm always like throughput, but it's a good idea. I think it's fun. I mean, it's not scalable. It's not right. It's hard to scale. I also think in a post COVID world, it's like hard to hire right now, hard to get people inside of a shop right now. Totally. But I like it one day. So this was like 2013, 14. So I kind of told my brother this idea. He got me this really like portable oven. An easy big oven. It reminds me of it. Hopefully a little bit more powerful than that. It was a Bravill, so it was a Bravill. So it's like kind of elevated. Yeah, OK, so I did a lot of shows with this concept. Oh, OK. Yeah, I actually this is a thing. Yeah, all right. Yeah, I actually was doing it, but so thank you for. Yeah, sorry. No, I hate this idea. So one show that I was invited to by my friend, she was having it like it was kind of like a like a neighborhood artisan show and it was dead of summer. So it was like July, something not cookie. Not cookie weather. Yeah, I looked up the temperature that day. It was going to be like 90 something degrees. So I'm schlepping my whole cookie factory there. But I was working on this teardrop thing on the side. So I was like, look, I have these prototypes. Like I'm going to just put them out there because they don't know what else to sell. I can sell iced tea or I could, you know, and I have these teardrops. Yeah, let me just see how they sell. And so that's actually what sold the most. Like I had, I didn't even have packaging for it. I had little baggies and people were like buying them. And so at that point when I kind of sold out, I think I'd 50 or 60 prototypes is when I knew there's something here. And so then when I went back to like get feedback, I kind of knew the concept was good. I just need to know like, does it taste good? Does it actually taste like tea and get that type of validation? What were you selling it for? Like, what was the price point at the show? Yeah, I think it was a dollar each. So just like one. OK, got it. So at what point did you decide to put both feet into this new venture and leave eBay? Because I'm sure that was a monumental point in your parents. Weren't like, yeah, this is a good idea. Yeah. Well, the thing is, my parents, like they actually have they're not traditional entrepreneurs, but all immigrants, I feel like are entrepreneurial in their own way. He trailblazed for sure. Yeah. And so even though, you know, they pursued higher education, they always had side hustles of some kind. So I feel that their attitude of entrepreneurship was very they were very encouraging of it. I think they definitely ask questions like, are you sure? Like, what, you know, what are you doing if you're not working at eBay? But I think like once they understood, no, I was serious about it. They were very supportive. And then I think there's like no right time to ever leave a job. I feel, you know, if you're deciding whether to make the leap or not. So unless it's like you have a home run of a business and like, you know, it scales really fast the first year, but that was not the case for for what I was doing. I think there was a couple of things I did. So I ended up purchasing a home right before I knew I was going to leave so that I could pull a home equity line of credit out in case I needed that for startup capital. There's a lot of things that you've done. There's a hedge thus far that have been out of the box. But quite the gamble that has paid off. And I'm impressed. Yeah. So that was like bought a house just because you knew not just because, but like I was like, I was like kind of at that point in my life where I was like, oh, you know, I always wanted to be a homeowner at some point. And so fast. But I knew that if I could, because I had a very, you know, corporate reliable job. So before I made the plan, just like, OK, I'm going to take out a HELOC so that I have some buffer before it looks good on the when the banks doing their research. You still had the mortgage to pay. Yes. Yeah. So that that was that state. OK, you were good with that. You were like, I got well, I was I wasn't good. I mean, it was doable where and also could have sold the home, you know, the property that I had. Well, the property had also had like a rental income opportunity on it. OK. So I was renting out, but also, you know, that was paying for the mortgage. Got it. So I definitely was liable for a lot, but it was definitely like, OK, well, I could take out the HELOC as buffer. The other thing was that I was deciding whether I was going to get my MBA or not. I took the GMAT, I got in to a program and I just decided to use whatever I saved up for that towards the business. So very smart. That was another love in the story. Yeah. 50 K to 60 K or something. So you never went to business school. No. Good for you. I mean, I did. I clearly did with this business. But I like I went. You don't teach it now. Like 10 times over, I've been to business school, but not a traditional. That's so good. I went to business school and, you know, I go back and forth on it. I mean, I've heard amazing stories. Like people love it. I don't think I've ever heard him say a positive thing about it. Or maybe one. I think the thing for me was like when I was in business school, what happened, what I realized was that you understand the box people live in and so you understand business in a box and there's value to that. Like when you're an entrepreneur and you're speaking to an accountant, it's good to know the language the accountant speaks. Same thing with your finance professional. It's good to understand debt and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. However, in my head, it was like, I don't care about any of that because the language I want to speak is about building business. Not about like, if I if I need to know accounting, I'll just hire a good accountant, right? I don't go into I don't do my own surgery, right? I go to a doctor. I go to a surgeon. And so I looked at it like that. Yeah. And so I felt like I was learning skills that really wouldn't matter. And it was more about getting the credential for other people. And even today, I don't think I don't think it matters. But I do think now that a real estate development, you know, some people like that I have an MBA, but that that's their world view. Exactly. I place zero value on it. But it's if that's the feather in the cap they need to see. Yeah, it's confusing. It's all certain accolades. I mean, there some things are more meaningful to you than others. And you're like, Hey, why aren't you focusing on that? But for other people, they get, you know, certain value out of having a credential. My plan wasn't also linear. It wasn't like get the MBA and then go do this. Right. I knew I was going to go start something on my own. And so the MBA really wasn't like this clear path to consulting or like this job that was so coveting my whole life like that. I didn't have that. Well, that was always my question because I knew I wanted to get my MBA because I wanted to start a business of some kind. I didn't know what, but that was my intention. But it wasn't to change industries. Which then I realized, Oh, a lot of people get their MBA so they can get out of engineering or something. Right. That's yeah. So it's school of civil engineering. Oh, there you go. That was a part of it. No, really. Yeah. So that was the first thing. So you had you had a HELOC and you had your MBA and money. So were you using your house as like a manufacturing hub for all this? I was actually. Yeah. There was something in California past just the year before year or two before called the Cottage Food license, which enabled any person to make a food product at home up to certain revenue threshold. So before that, a lot of the farmers, market vendors, you would see would have to go to like a certified kitchen in order to make their food. And so this enabled people to just make it at home as long as their place was inspected and approved by the county. Gotcha. So you had to have people come into your house and just like look over the thing and do the whole like certify it. And then I started a little factory there. I would you know, it was like a small it was a small unit. Like it was basically a one bedroom upstairs. And then downstairs, I had a garage. I converted the garage into a warehouse, made the product upstairs. And then took my mom out of retirement. She flew up and we were just making the tea. And was it just you to us? Manufacturing because we didn't trust anyone else with the recipe. And my mom is very protective of this recipe, too. So river in her. Yeah. So she was just like, she's like, no one else is seeing this. She had we had like a binder of all the recipes. And I was like, oh, I'm thinking of hiring X, Y, Z person. And she's like, no, like you have to protect this. So she flew up and she would make all the drops. What year was this? This was 2015. Okay. And so at that time, are you just going e-commerce? No, no, no, no. So I hadn't even gone to the point where I quit my job. So I did all this like behind the scenes. I'm like doing all this, but I'm not like serious. You know, part of it is also a confident thing to say, like, I'm starting a business. It was really hard for me to get there. And so it was more like I'm starting this project. I'm starting this. Why was that hard? Like there was so much involved in having a business, like also the failure around if it doesn't work. And I mean, this whole thing is all on you. Yeah, it's all on you and it was a lot of pressure for me. And also just feel like at that point, you know, I was so like low in confidence, I feel I was I'm confident in some ways, but also like, oh, I don't have the right connections. Like, who do I think I am to like manufacture a food product? I don't know anything about, you know, the imposter syndrome. Yeah, absolutely. So like there was a lot of things around that where I just didn't want to admit that it was like a business, but I think the tipping point for why I decided to leave is that I ended up like having a lot of vacation stacked up. And then every five years at eBay, you get a one month paid sabbatical. And I was just hitting like my four and a half year mark. And so I basically went to my manager and said, you know, I was just very honest about it. But I was like, I kind of want to leave to start this to see if I like working on this project of mine. And he took a look at it. And I mean, I understand because it's like T pressed into like cute shapes, basically. And he's like, it's like, wait, did you ask for this advice? I was just telling him like, Hey, I'm leaving because I want to do this. You know, I was actually going to leave because it was four and a half years in. So I was actually just going to leave the company without taking this sabbatical. I was just like, I want to do this. So I talked to my manager to just have this honest conversation around it. And I think in his mind, and he, you know, even verbally said like, Oh, like T pressed in shapes. Okay. Like, Oh, you're like, you're serious about it. Cause before he would see it around the office and he was like, Oh, like you're serious about this. Like, okay, well, why don't you just, you know, take your sabbatical earlier and your vacation and see if you really actually enjoy doing it before committing to this great advice. And so the hybrid. Yeah. But I think the real hook for him was that he thought I was like going to be fatigued on it or, you know, I wasn't going to follow through with it. And I would come back. So I think that was like the, the angle there. But what a fantastic opportunity that you had, that you could take this time while still earning a paycheck and you know, you have a substantial safety net under you. And that's the thing though. Like he gave you a safety, which, which for someone like me is the worst thing, like, I don't want that at all. I'd be like, cut it all, but that's a, that's a me thing. I had a month in, I had a month in change, right? To like a month and a half, maybe to really explore this, but the pressure was you like, are you going to do this or not? Right. You know, are you going to really do this or not? So, but the safety net allows for that pressure, right? The safety net allows for you to say, am I going to do this or not? If you have no safety net, then it's pretty cut and dry. You're going to do this. Yes. And I think that's, that's the thing that lingers in the mind of, yeah, you know, working at it, it wasn't so bad. Yeah. I mean, I sounds like it went the right way, but I also like got to that point because I was working on things beforehand where you feel like you're in a boat, you have one foot in one boat, another foot in another boat, because both are very demanding. Like, you know, your startup or beginnings of a startup and your, you know, it's like, it's like a demanding job. So I felt torn. I like knew I had to walk away from one or the other. So anyways, I got this time back to really explore if I liked it. And I caught the bug so hard that month and a half. I just loved every aspect of it. I loved unknowns. I loved how challenging it was. And after that month and a half, I just knew that this was the path for me. So at that point, did you even bother going back at all? Or you just emailed like, Hey, thank you so much. Peace. Basically, yeah, my stock. Yeah, basically, I, yeah, I had to go. So after that, I love that story because there's so many people. We get the question. I was in my Instagram DMs earlier today. People were like, Oh, like, when do I leave my job? And this is now a good clip that we can tell people. But it's also the fact that you caught the bug once, like once you were doing it. Yeah. And I think most people overlooked that they, they think they're going to quit their job and they're just going to live in fear. And it sounds like for you, it was fearful at the beginning until you did it. And then you were like hooked. Yeah, I was hooked. I mean, I knew before I loved working on this. That was there, but everyone's waiting for a silver bullet. Like, Oh, like millions in sales or like one day your Shopify just goes like nuts. And, you know, change, change, change that ding all the time. Yeah, that never happened. You know, I maybe had $20,000 in sales. Not enough to like leave your job, but it wasn't about that for me. It was just like, I have to do this. Like I love it. I mean, a fire had been lit and it sounds like, you know, more so than, than anything had ever incentivized you or given you drive at eBay. You now found that. And so it's, it makes sense why you would immediately pursue it. If that's the fire that lives inside of you, then yes, go wholeheartedly into it. Yeah. And that was it, you know, so from that point on, it was, I mean, it was a grind in every sense of the word because I told you, like, I didn't understand what financing a company entailed or raising capital or angel investment. So those are all terms I actually had to learn while making the tea drops, packaging it, you know, figuring out packaging, shipping orders. And we didn't start on Ecom. I like had it Ecom or shop, but I'm not saying we had sales. So you go to like markets and stuff. Like local markets, everything. The very beginning of this business was built on trade shows, artisan shows, trade shows, farmers market type of venues. And were you doing like a dog and pony show where it's, you have to show people it can dissolve. You have to kind of walk people through it. Yeah. Yeah. Visually show them. I actually would make these smaller sized tea drops, like sample size and have sample size cups. And so then like on the spot for you, I would make you your sample so you could see like how it worked. And so yeah, tea magic, as we say, these trade shows were great because you got instant customer feedback on what people like, what people didn't. But it started helping us sell into retail. So boutique retail is kind of where we got our start is these mom and pop shops, like grocery stores or what? No, even like gift shops, like mom and pop gift shops. Yeah, type of like smaller shops, you know, fascinating who took us on. And so they would source for their stores at these trade shows, you know? So I did the Atlanta gift show, San Francisco gift show, New York now, which is a New York based gift show, Dallas gift show. I would just like hop around the country and set up my booth and then like sample. And that's how we built the first several hundred accounts. That's amazing. Like within those markets, did you notice that certain ones bought more than like, let's say Atlanta? Maybe what's the most? Yeah, Atlanta was like a great gift show at the time. Now, you know, so many of these shows are dying out and the past year has done a number on trade shows in general. But there were certain ones that were definitely like prize markets because just it's not just the geographical region. It's just the volume of people who go to these shows. So New York now was, you know, a good one. Atlanta LA gift show was a good one for us. And were you still trying to grow the e-commerce? Like it's, yeah, the website, it's up and running, but you're not. I was hesitant to, even though I worked in digital marketing, like the whole idea of paid advertising, when you don't have good creative and you are just trying to bootstrap something in, you know, it's true sense. It was bootstrapping. I just, I would start spending money and then get scared and pull back. And so even though I had this money kind of reserve for it and the buffer of the HELOC, it's not like I just wanted to throw that away. So I just had to figure out what is the path to like get some initial revenue. And these gift shows were great because the vendors who paid you paid net 30. So you were getting paid right away. Whereas the lead times for grocery stores can sometimes be 90 days out. So instead of going the grocery route, which I dabbled in, but then I like definitely was burned a few times and realized like, okay, I need. Yeah, they own you. It's a big problem. People always think like, oh, I got a retail win. And I'm always like, yeah, I'm like, wait, wait until you get charge backs and all this other stuff. So yeah, or wait till they're sold out and they need you to refill immediately. It's a big problem. Yeah, they own you. So I just knew like we had to have a different path. We were lucky enough where, you know, this wood box is a design I came up with initially like the whole. So this lent itself really nicely to gift shops. So this is like this was our hero product. And that's when stores like Anthropology picked us up Nordstrom started carrying it. Then, you know, then we got into uncommon goods, which is another e-commerce bigger retailer. And then this is honestly the hero product that helped us really scale. And what is that exactly? It's called our wood sampler T box, but it comes with basically an assortment of our best selling T varieties. So you have like equal parts, caffeinated, non-caffeinated teas in like almost like a, you know, giftable chocolate box. And basically this concept and the wood box, which I designed because I wanted to pay homage to the tea chest of like the 1600s that kind of look like this, but modernize it a bit. So if I was traditionally in consumer package good designing something, I would have never thought to like create a wood box like this. But because it didn't come from that world. I kind of just like designed a box experience that I would want to see. And this ended up being, you know, the hero product for us. So this is what really sold us into so many of the boutique stores. So many of the first big accounts like Anthropology and Nordstrom and etc. Well, it makes sense. That's much more ornamental and it stands out. I mean, this, this other cylinder cylinder, yeah, it would, I feel like if you had started with this, you might not have seen success that you did with the wooden box, because it just doesn't have the shelf presence that that box is for, like, for all the buyers. It's easy, right? Because you're like, oh, can I taste them on? You're like, here, and then they get it. And it's probably sits on their desk like this. And they're like, oh, tea drops. I should reach out to them. Yeah. So that's, you can put pens in it after many use these little things. They go a long way. Yeah. Candle companies do this. They give you like a four pack. Yeah. So that's how we started. So like, once we got into those stores, I then that's kind of when I realized, okay, this is like a legitimate business, you know, that there's like something here. And that's when I had to ramp up and learn about what garnering investment really meant and looked like. Okay. So you had revenue and you were like, okay, it's time to scale this. Yeah. Okay. I mean, lots in between, you know, like you're dying doing everything. You're just like trying to figure everything out, go to trade shows, talk to people, learn about the food industry. We then move from my apartment kitchen into a commercial kitchen and like sort of scaling the recipe. And then after that, you know, you have to figure out, oh, okay. We've kind of maxed our capacity here, move it to a co manufacturer and then figure out fulfillment and everything else. So while doing that, I'm also realizing this is very expensive to start this type of business and I have to figure out what raising capital looks like and how that works. So how'd you go about it? So I heard about this book called Venture Deals by Brad Feld. Yeah. Brad Feld had a company that was very similar to Groupon, but basically when the Groupon, it was like Feld's deals. It was something as obvious as that. Oh, yeah. Cause we met Brad, a bowtie company, and we launched on his company site, which was like a Groupon competitor at the time. Really? And yeah, it was all because of that book. Wait, did the book come first? Book came first. Okay. Yeah. But then he would spend time on the east coast, giving like certain seminars and stuff and talks around some of the Boston school systems. He, even today, he's very vocal about like investment, what it takes to start up a business. And so you read his book. So I read the book so that I understood what all these terms were. In the meantime, we were invited to join this kind of food incubator accelerator called Excel Foods at the time, based in New York. And they wanted to like invest, but I didn't want to take a full investment. So I gave them an exchange of equity for this participation in this accelerator so I could learn all these things. Was it like seven percent? No, much less, like, I think two to three. And then so I did that, went through that whole program, and then they ended up doing a bigger investment in us down the line. In the meantime, I'm reading this whole Brad Foudling, trying to get, like understand the difference between a convertible note and equity raise and angel investment, et cetera. But then, you know, you kind of have to like know who to go to to raise money. So even though Excel Foods had invested, I was trying to figure out like, where do you, where do you find these people? And that piece was really hard. So, and I almost like walked into some very predatory deals, but then I realized, okay, I don't really have a real index of people. I just, like, I just don't who make these types of investments. So I started entering pitch competitions for startups. And I chose them because I always, I saw that on the, on the, the judges on most of these were VCs or, or angel investors themselves. And so I figured, you know, if I can get their attention, then at least I'll know about my company, even if I don't make like the top, whatever. So I started entering one's base in LA and I ended up getting into this one called Woman Founders Network. They had a pitch competition. We made the top 10 and the top 10 were given a pitch coach. And I was given this like amazing pitch coach who then helped me prepare on like a lot of subsequent pitches, national television, you know, appearances, et cetera. But she was like savage when it came to like my deck and everything. She would just basically whip me into shape. How was that for you? Did it, was it hard at first to take that kind of feedback? Yes and no. Some things, cause like a founder is very attached, like, oh, everyone needs to know this, this like part of like this information that we're in these stores and that, you know, this is how we think about distribution and she's like, no one cares. And you have like five minutes to convey all this information. You have to practice like every word matters, like every word, every space in between each word, your timing has to be, you know, on point. Like, and we can't waste time. So she would literally record me, video record me. And then we would review any nervous ticks I had, any filler words, like, um, and then I would have to repeat that over and over again. But her techniques were so great. You know, I ended up winning first place in that. So that was like not only today at $20,000, but one of the judges was Jesse Draper of Halogen Ventures. That's a fun base here in LA. And so she ended up investing. And then I was like, okay, that's like works. So then I entered, uh, there was a Tori Birch foundation pitch for $100,000, we ended up taking home the hundred K for that one. And then house. And then on that panel was Tony from Q ball, which is a fund out of Boston. He ended up investing. That's how I got my first set of investors. And then they introduced me to more people. But for someone who didn't have, doesn't have a role at X who doesn't know where like investors live or sit. This was a great way for anyone to just get in front of the right people. Incubator didn't help you out with any of that. They didn't help you out with structure. They did some. Okay. But also you have to realize like they're also a VC and they were just starting. So we were both learning and they introduced me to some people, but some panned out, some didn't. So I just like, I also knew, like I had to learn this too on my own and not also also just rely on my investment fund to do that. We went through Y Combinator and it was similar. There was a guy named Jeff and he's probably the most like charismatic person to give a speech ever. And he's, he's the guy everyone goes to when they're doing their deck and not, so not all the founders as an example are like from America. And so if there's one that has an accent, he'll say, your options are your teammates doing the pitch or you're going to a speech coach. And it was like, like imagine hearing that about your baby. And then you as the founder, if you had the accent would be like, uh, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. And he'd be like, okay, here's the data on the word of the money flows. If you have an accent, here you go. And you would see literally the fact that like, if they couldn't really understand you, I mean, you were talking about 10% versus like 90%. I mean, it was staggering. And so he's like, this is up to you. This is your company, but if you want to fail, then I would continue to do what you're doing. And like, yeah, go ahead and try to learn, try to figure this out in the next three weeks. Cause then not only are you trying to figure that out, but you're also spending all that time with a speech coach, when you should be spending it on your company, arguably, right? Because it's like, it could be a $3 million decision. That's the reality. Like any seed stage at that, at that point, two to four millions what they're getting. And so wild like that. And then of course you're getting recorded. She was, her name's Lisa Elliott. Shout out. I mean, she has her own media coaching company, but I think it's true. And I don't think that's really shared with founders a lot. You know, everyone wants to take a very supportive approach to your pitch or your content in your deck. And you just need someone to be ruthless, like sometimes. Yeah, especially when you're starting out, you don't need yes, Ben, you need honest feedback because the public is, is not going to be as kind. Yeah, I mean, she'd be kind about it, but she's like, you know, in her own way, she'd be like, no one cares. Right. It's not helping you to be kind at that stage. Yeah. And you have to like, be in a place to receive that, right? Not take it personally. Yeah. But that was good training to not take the pitching part personally. Yeah. So like after you get, you know, it's, it's not like, oh, you just meet investors and it's all good. It's like, I did pitch maybe seven or 80 times before I, I raised the series seed because it was just so much of it is like you're learning how to pitch. So you're, a lot of them are wasted meetings, but also you are figuring it out, like, what is the narrative? What is the story? But then there's also a segment of people who just don't really understand what you're doing. You know, they think it's like a novelty or like a gag gift or like they don't really get it. And this is me in the adaptogen market. I look at decks every day around Lyons, Maine. Yeah. I'm like, what is this market? And I have no idea. Are you in the space? I'm not in the space, but I see decks often with adaptogenic everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean mud, water, mud. Yeah. I mean, I know the pioneers of that. The guys at four, Sigmatic. I feel like they were very first in this whole mushroom craze trend. How does that make you view what your business? Do you feel like you have to embrace that? Or are you just like, this is my line. I'm staying right here. In terms of comparing myself to, or just like adding, like you can easily add a line to anything. Oh, yeah. You know, we've been asked to put CBD and to put Lyons, Maine, all these things. And I think not that I'm not open to it, but that we don't really do think that's like things that are super trendy, you know, so you feel like it's trendy. I do think just like turmeric was like three years ago. You know, and matcha is having its moment now, but it's not a bad thing. It's just more like our first line of teas. We just wanted it to be staples that could, that could have longevity. And now, you know, I'm probably more willing to experiment and try something different than I was back then, because I just needed hero products that would win. Sure. Chai is not going anywhere. Yeah. You can, you can experiment later, but like you said, yeah, get the staples out of the way. Yeah. So get the staples out of the way and then launch into other things. So the research I've done is basically the CBD market is growing significantly and right now that growth is tied to legislation, which is moving rapidly. And so once that goes, people are basically looking for a CBD alternative and the adaptogen market is effectively that. And as I was doing this research, I was like, huh, this makes sense now. Now the question is, how does that get delivered? Is it in a function of like a mud water? Is it in a, in a function of, uh, so good milk, this company I am invested in is playing with the activated creamer. Brooke? Oh, cool. Yeah. So we're investors in her company. Okay, great. Yeah. We will halogen is too. So I know Brooke. Oh, nice. Yeah. Brooke's awesome. Yeah. Small world. Very small world. This is the second time this has happened. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone knows Brooke. Yeah. She's just a legend. So she's doing the activated creamer. Cool. And I'm like, uh, interesting. Yeah. And I'm just kind of sit, like I'm watching this. Where is this going to go? Yeah. Then I'm getting all these pitch decks around same thing. Yeah. People's take on like, this is how we're going to give Maka and Lyons and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what is this? Yeah. But apparently the CBD market is the thing that's growing it because it's this, it's like, I think CBD for some still remains taboo. Yes. And well, the thing at the hard part about CBD, because we've been going through an evaluation is you can't market it, right? Like you can't advertise on Facebook about it. Correct. You can't, you can't mention it. Right. So a lot of, I mean, that's, if that's your main channel of acquisition, that's shot. So right, there has been a movement to go around that and a big movement in, in this space, like apothecary is one example. Yeah. That's the pitch deck I'm talking about. That's one of them. Oh, cool. Yeah. I know she's a two. Yeah. She sent me her deck and that's when I was like, I love it. I just don't get it. I don't understand this at all. I, that's what led me down the path. I see. Okay. Cause if you're seeing mud, water, you're seeing apothecary, you're seeing out. I mean, this is going to be a huge market. I also really think Shazoo is like a great operator too. So I know she's totally great. Like, I was like, I love you. I was like, you're amazing. I'm such a fan of yours. I just don't know anything about this market. Yeah. But I'm a fan of yours. But it is going to continue to grow because I think the thing is, like people are looking, you can't, you have to look at this, that space. I guess you call it adaptogenics. That's what I call, I have no idea. It's a self-care space. Yeah. So rather than products being purely functional, like I take this because I have this ailment or I'm deficient of this mineral, this is very much about your holistic wellness and that includes mental health and emotional health, which are big topics rising out of the pandemic. So there's a huge focus on that. And kin is another example. It's an adaptogenic based alcohol alternative. As all of this relates to your business, do you, does that make you want to experiment or? Not for that purpose. Not because like, oh, we think this is huge. The area that we're exploring next is more women's health, since like majority of our customers are female. We think there's a huge space around like mental teas, hormonal balance teas, lactation based teas. Like that is actually a much more interesting space for us. So our shift has been looking at that because we know there's already like amazing players in this other realm. So how are you doing that? So we're coming out with basically women's line. Yeah, women's line of tea drops. That's awesome. When are you releasing that? It's probably going to be Q1M next year. What was involved in putting all that together? A lot of trial, you know, like testing different recipes. Like we get a lot of feedback from our customers like around ingredient profiles and what they like. So a lot of customer research, basically. It's the name of the game. I mean, I tell people like that's really it. It can be that simple. Even for our podcast, like I think if we weren't seeing more and more people tune in, we wouldn't do it anymore. Or we would be like, how do we fix this? But the problem, it's a little bit harder for us. It's like, why aren't you listening? And like if I were to ask somebody, like, why aren't you listening to our podcast? Yeah, the answer might not be because you suck. It could be because my attention is scattered amongst the television and the Olympics and all this other so much noise and distraction. I think that's a part, like that's hard for everyone. Yeah, it's hard to make yourself relevant. It's hard to get that feedback space. Yeah, yeah. And Chrissy Teacon is a big fan of yours. She's on your website. That's kidding. Yeah. Um, she, I mean, that was a story. We had a team retreat once and that was like, this was before I think Chrissy Teacon really blew up. But we were, we felt like she would be, if we would have any influencer, which we didn't do much influencer marketing, she would be our girl. So we just started like researching who is her manager. I actually, I think had a meeting with one of her, not her direct manager, but like a publicist or something. And for her to do any post at that time, it was like $250,000. I was like, oh, I'm like, okay, so that's out of the question. Yeah. So then we just started sending product to her manager or to any address we could get our hands on. And six months later, like we get this amazing tweet that's like very hard to top, you know, in terms of endorsement for our brand and like how much she loves it. And she tells everyone who comes over to drink it. So what kind of a bump did you see after that? It was pretty significant, both on Amazon and our website. Would you say it was worth 250,000? No, it wasn't worth 250K, but it was definitely like a great, great endorsement. Sure, sure. Yeah. I saw a statistic yesterday that made me think of this, um, 80% of companies are overspending in advertising. And so it's like, if you think about it that way, you know, that 250,000, you have to be really sure that what you're going to get in return from that is 250,000. And I think the way that you did it and the way that she ended up tweeting about it was in fact better because if this was like a sponsored post, people can see through that. Exactly. This seemed genuine. This was so genuine. It's the best type of endorsement you could have got, you could have got received, right? And it was a very pivotal moment for the brand and the company. Like the fact, the first, like the fact we were able to reach her, but second, the, just like the aftermath, because it wasn't just that spike that week. Then we were published as like her favorite teen people magazine and all these other outlets. And that just like. Now you're brand building. Yeah. Just like really, yeah, having a great foundation for brand building, the credibility that you like always wanted to receive. Did you reach out to her after that? Yeah. And then attempt to like further the relationship. She never does this. Like if she had to go through a lot of hoops to actually like tweet that. Because what? Yeah. She doesn't have. Her tweets seem very random. Well, I mean, other thoughts are, but she endorses a product because now she was always paid for it. Right. So she had to basically tell her people like, no, I just, I'm a fan of this brand. And like, I want to give them some love. Right. So I'm doing this. So then we were talking to her team about either an investment or like a future collaboration on the line. And so those conversations, like, I wouldn't say they've stopped, you know, so we're like figuring it out what to do next. But I was telling, you know, some of our investors, it's almost like we got the holy grail of like her being just a friend of the brand and being so natural in her endorsement. I'm like, I think anything else would kind of erode that. Sure. It's almost like you don't need the investment from her at this point. It's only like if we were to truly do a collaboration on the line or something. I mean, what I love about the story to some extent is also it just shows if you make the product that good, right, then your ad spend doesn't really matter much because your product can be, it can speak for itself. And so like Boy smells with the candles, like Casey Musgraves puts into their DMs. That is not a paid partnership. And they made a candle together called Space Cowboy. And like, that's pretty cool, but it's because he put so much emphasis on the product. Yeah, it's true. I mean, you know, and I think we would be in the camp of like at least right now, some of these avenues are limited. So you are spending a lot on marketing. Yeah. But if you really go back to the basics, but part of that is, you know, you have to reach that person first to get them to try your product. And that's the hard part. It's like people have so many gatekeepers these days. So even to get to Christie, it was just like. You couldn't get into the front door. So you try the back door of the side door. Yeah. Like literally every door, the same thing when we got into Oprah Magazine, it's not just like, you know, you get in. Like, so I've sent a package every three months, like we're sending, you know, we're sending product. We're sending it to like, not just New York, but like these other avenues, you know, and then like through another connection, that's when we finally got in. But there is like an engine behind all this, you know. How do you view the digital marketing given your experience at eBay and now that you're brand building on Instagram and Twitter? I mean, we still spend a lot in digital marketing and like it's been really hard if you're a brand these last several months with iOS changes and just the landscape changing. So we recognize like the traditional model of paid advertising is shifting and it has been shifting tremendously this last year. I don't think we can really rely on Facebook advertising anymore in its current form that there is going to be other advertisers popping up that we really have to rely on the strength of our own community on retention, like getting people back to the second, third purchase if we're going to be successful in this climate. We were interviewing a company named Cargo. And so the founder of that came up with the idea of basically in mobile advertising. And so if you're on Safari or whatever you use for your mobile browser on your phone, these pop-ups kind of come up at the bottom. So he was in this game since like Nokia, since the first, since like turn of the century. So pre-app store, pre-iPhone and has continued to work on this product. And he was saying during the pandemic, more and more people are spending basically less time on the TV, more time on their browsers. And so this advertising revenue for him has, he has seen it increase significantly. And so his business is doing really well because of that. But it's also to your point around like the limits that exist that I think most people don't see around like Instagram and Facebook. Yeah, I mean if you're really dependent on those channels, like, I mean, it's just, there's been a whole shift on privacy and like how companies think about it. So it's getting harder, harder and harder as a brand to reach your audience. Last year, I mean, we had, it was a great year for us because of COVID and people at home drinking tea and e-commerce. But now it's just a different environment. So I think it's like, that's also the other aspect, right, of an entrepreneur or any startup. It's like, all right, it's a new game now. Last year's game was it's over. And we'd have to figure out a new strategy for 2021. It's like Blue Land too. Like Blue Land does, you know, Blue Land? No. So they basically. Oh, the candles? No, they do the reusable tablets. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for like cleaning tanks. Yeah, they were, yeah, exactly. Sarah also on our podcast. Oh, OK. I got to check that one out. And so this is, it's like cool to see different markets, obviously, but same concept reduces waste. Yeah. How much do one of these go for? Um, these on our site are 14, 13 to $14, how many? Well, this one has 15 in them. Okay. And then our sweeten line, which is like a bigger drop has 10. Nice. It's like a dollar. Yeah, it's like what you were selling it for at the show. It's a little more expensive now, a little more elevated of a tea. But we do have also bulk bags. So we have a lot of people on subscription. Oh, nice. Who auto buy in bulk. Yeah. Or we also have a tea and chat experience, which is our subscription offering tea and chat. Yeah. So it gives an assortment of tea with you. It's basically like a membership where it's, it's kind of, yeah, it's a community. So people obviously have the subscription piece, but then there's a content piece of like changing themes around self care every month and then a topic and then a discussion. And we usually have like partner with another small business and offer like a free gift. So we do advertising for other companies. And so it's, it's a whole experience when you receive that monthly. How do you do it? Do you do it on like IG? What's the plat? What's the, I mean, it's on Shopify. Oh, the chat. Yeah. We do zooms or Facebook rooms. Did you start it during COVID? Yeah, basically it's like, oh, people are at home and they want self care and they want a community. And so that was really born out of COVID and just took off. The other thing that really took off for us in last year was Boba, because people couldn't go to their favorite Boba shops. You know, so they were missing out on that. So we created a whole DIY Boba box that ended up being like our hero product of 2020 and sold like millions of dollars in just Boba. Have you seen that continue? That trend continue? Definitely. Yeah. Okay. How did you get the messaging out there for that? Honestly, like, oh, because we started looking at Google trends and Google and Amazon and I saw like, there's a rising search volume of Boba and bubble tea, what's going on. And then, oh, like, oh yeah, people can go to their favorite Boba shop. So then, you know, within a month, basically our team put together a Boba deluxe box where you had the tea, you had the Boba packs, you had the swing condensed milk packets. And I saw it on your Instagram. Yeah. And you had a Boba straw. So we just put that up on the site and it just started skyrocketing. This is like when, so Brooke, she basically was like, I was thinking of the story as well. Google trends. Like people all of a sudden are Googling frozen milk. And because of that, she's all of a sudden, you know, that's her. Yeah, that's what she does. She was able to catch that. So it was amazing. And then like you put paid ad behind Boba and bubble tea during COVID. It was just explosive. So that saved us, you know, last year, for sure. Okay. We know you have the new product coming out in Q1 next year. Anything else you're looking forward to, like our, or like a direction that you see yourself accelerating towards? Yeah. I mean, I think Chien-Chien, like seeing that model work, you know, that, oh, there's like an appetite for a subscription based offering from a business standpoint, it's great. You know, a higher LTV, a more engaged customer. That will be a bigger component of our business overall subscriptions. And then we're doing our first true brand collaboration with Hello Kitty in Q4. So massive. Yeah. We're coming up with three, like actually a Boba kit with them and three new SKUs. How did that develop? They reached out to us actually. Yeah. That's a sub. Google trend, Lance Hero product, Lance Hello Kitty collab. Yeah. And that's going to be a big one for us. Yeah, of course. The first true brand part, it makes sense. Cause like our customer, you know, average age is 37, 38, grew up in the time when like Hello Kitty and Sanrio was, was it, right? During the 90s. Every other backpack at school. Right. So it's like that nostalgic tie to Hello Kitty and what we're doing. Like we have so many fun, exciting plans for our campaign. You have like launch events? Yeah. We're doing a launch event. You should do one here. I hear I'm going to pitch it to you live. You ready? Sure. Yeah. Okay. Hello Kitty teedrop. You create a wrap. You wrap the vehicle that you saw in front, which is a yellow truck inside of the truck. You can do Hello Kitty and teedrop cups. They can make this Boba tea really easily. And then back here, you have a display of all of your products and maybe some of their merch and out back, we can do cocktails if you want. Done. That was such an amazing pitch because you've been looking at, I mean, we are thinking of doing something at the Hello Kitty bow room in Irvine. Do that too. Yeah. Yeah. And you can do it all weekend long. And obviously this truck is the most insurmable truck in Los Angeles. And so it's full circle. And then back here is just like an education or just more branding opportunities. We'll even remove all the podcasting stuff. Oh, okay. Maybe we should get Hello Kitty here. And then she's a mask. Like she is a mascot now. Maybe have like a conversation with her. Done. I love it. Stay tuned everybody. Well, look, tell everyone where they can find you. So we're at my teardrop on all social handles, whether that's Instagram, Twitter, even TikTok now. And then also our website. If you just type in teardrops in Google or my teardrop.com. Sweet. Thanks for coming out. Yeah. Thank you, Sasha. Thank you. Thanks for having me.